LittleBigPlanet has sold 1.3m units Comments by Tom Bramwell

LBP is very popular among my real-life PS3 owning (and non-hardcore) friends, but I'm the only one who's making levels.

...but I agree LBP is not commmenly known by most casual gamers ... it's a new and unknown brand and may sound a bit obscure to many. But this is due to marketing (and style?) and not the difficulty.

@Beano

"...but I agree LBP is not commmenly known by most casual gamers ... it's a new and unknown brand and may sound a bit obscure to many. But this is due to marketing (and style?) and not the difficulty."

My point was that my gaming friends all know about LBP, it's been so heavily plastered of the entire gaming press for the last year that you'd have to have been in the Congo for 12 months to not know every last intimate detail of the game. Most have played it but half are not interested and the other half think it looks gorgeous, but plays like shit.

It seems to me the more you have vested in the Playstation brand the more appealing LBP is, or the more tolerance of the terrible controls you accquire..

@ The_vorlon_man

Sounds like you do not record the shows that Sony think are the LBP demographic, and therefore spend their advertising cash on.

One example, "Terminator The Sarah Connor Chronicles" on Virgin 1, for the weeks leading up to Xmas it has a 30-second LBP advert every break; GoW2 was also heavily advertised around this particular show; also saw LBP on December evenings on Channel 4, Five, and Sky One.

In regard to television advertising, David Wilson, Sony’s head of U.K. PR, speaking to GamesIndustry.biz said "The bulk of our marketing including our six figure TV advertising campaign doesn’t roll out until December".

Of course, because you didn't see it ... it didn't happen. Right?

I have 1058575683938 game playing freinds, of those, only 1.5 say that LBP is unplayably tough.

Only 1.5

/see what I did there?

Yeah I saw loads of LBP adverts eventually. I wouldn't say its a difficult game either. Take the apparent evilest level "The Bunker", that took my 4 goes to get past maximum. I had to adapt to the controls to take inertia into account, but barring that transition period, I can pretty much sift through it fluently now.

Has to be said, I'm not making any levels at the moment, but this is mainly due to mass backlog of games!

@Farticus
"It seems to me the more you have vested in the Playstation brand the more appealing LBP is, or the more tolerance of the terrible controls you accquire.."

You could say the opposite based on you 20 sample of which only 3 own the machine. You could also say that the more time you spend with the game and the more you see then the better appreciation you have for it.

Bottom line, massive review scores and heaps of GOTY awards do no go to a game where 95% of gamers think it's unplayable.

M'boss got a PS3 this christmas, loved LBP and has already bested the main levels too. I wouldn't lump him in the hardcore bracket.

Certainly benefits from being a bundled game to hook people into it though. Some people just won't give stuff a chance unless they're forced to, deciding to plump for stuff like Sonic, Tomb Raider, Fifa, Call Of Duty etc ... anything thats seen as a "safe" brand title.

@The_vorlon_man

"/see what I did there?"

Yes, you did what you always do when you post. You made up some laughable bollocks. Show me something new for a change.

Control issues being blown out proportion, if you can't get to grips with this, you shouldn't pick up a control pad. It would be harder to get used to twin stick FPS controls than this.

StooMonster:
Virgin 1? are you serious?

I watch, record, and casually leave the TV on in the background - I watch most evenings on Sky 1, I watch 5, I even watch ITV, and I've seen a handful of Sony adverts, and the Mrs has seen a couple of LBP adverts in December, but that was it.
I watch Stargate Atlantis, 24 Redemption, Prison Break, The Simpsons, Futurama, Bones, Cold Case, Fringe, CSI:Miami, The Gadget show, 5 News, The IT Crowd, The Simpsons (on C4), X-Factor, ITV News, amongst numerous others.


By contrast, I've seen dozens of Wii Music, Wii Fit, DS, etc adverts, a few less XBOX adverts, and only a handful of Spny specific adverts, of which none were LBP.

"The bulk of our marketing including our six figure TV advertising campaign doesn’t roll out until December". "

That includes PSP, PS2, PS3, and every game therein, across several multichannel commercial stations.

6 figures could mean anything £100,000 to £999,999, which really isnt a lot for so many platforms and so many stations.

"Of course, because you didn't see it ... it didn't happen. Right?"

That's not what I said is it. I said that there has been pitifully little of it, and what there was, wasn't very good at telling the masses what the game was.

A few 30 second adverts on a specific show on Virgin 1 and a few spots here and there that are blink-it-and-miss-it are not the same as a all out media blitz that a top teir 1st party exclusive would normally have, is it.

Just ask yourself this, if you wanted to push a game as a system seller, and wanted people to know what it was that you were selling, then would you opt for some rather crappy 30 second spots on minor multichannel TV channels at the sort of time peple who play FPSs would be watching?

"You could say the opposite based on you 20 sample of which only 3 own the machine. You could also say that the more time you spend with the game and the more you see then the better appreciation you have for it."

My though also. Fair enoght that farticusmaximus don't like LBP, but claiming it's unplayable (and have crappy controle) is simply not serious. Sound more bitter denying from a group of Xbox-only owners. Sorry.

@DrDamn

I don't get it. I dont see where the love for this lacklustre game comes from. It's popular with journo's and the SDF but in the real world I see no evidence that people like it, and frankly, based on the enormous amount of press exposure and advertising and the poor sales (yes, they were poor compared to other high profile titles released at the time) the evidence is that in general it has failed to set the gaming world alight.

The ideals for the game are I think what people really like, but there have been plenty of other games with the right intentions and poor implementation that have not been granted the leeway that LBP has, and many of those have been far more subtantial than a plain old platformer.

farticusmaximus:

Your opinion of anything PS3 related, or any statistics you proffer, are as valuable as a Zimdollar.
Why do you even bother?
No, wait, you think people actually take notice of you beyond refuting your ridiculous , biased claims.

FACT: You do not represent the 'real world' in any way, shape, or form when offering opinions about high profile PS3 exclusives, and nobody even remotely believes your '20 friends' sample is representative of anything other than your cirlcle of XBOX owning friends.
.

"@Les: That doesn't make sense. You argument suggest that Wii sold pooly (or just less than great) at day one, which it didn't - it sold through from day one."

No, it doesn't. It claims that a large part of Wii's continued success has been due to positive hands-on experience. Not that it's responsible for all of its success. Its low price and the fact that it could play the latest Zelda were responsible for its day-one success. The fact that Wii Sports was bundled here in the West contributed to pretty much everything after that (and I'm aware that that's an exaggeration but I hope you get my point ;) ).

"/see what I did there?"

Yeah, and it's completely different from what I did.

@Farticus
"I don't get it."

Then just accept it's not the game for you or that there is something you are missing and move on.

LES:
" Of course it's just anecdotal evidence and no scientific proof. But I just don't buy it that the only reason that LBP is not a huge success is lack of marketing effort. It just doesn't appeal to a broad enough (or specific enough) public."

Then the same is true of any game, Wii, PS3, XBOX 360, or any platform, that involves controls any more complicated than the waggle or button mashing.

LBP requires the use of dexterity and skill, as is the case with any platform, shooter, racing and strategy game.

Buzz,Sing Star, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Guitar Hero etc, are as pick up and play as they get, and naturally will appeal to just about anyone who has a pair of hands.

The other difference is that those games dont require any investment of time into them. LBP is good if you can sit down and actually spend time with it, but if you are at a mates house, it's not the most social of experiences.

For example, Would one suggest Chess was an unpopular, crappy game, just because people you know would rather play a quick game of kick-about with a ball in your garden instead?

"Control issues being blown out proportion, if you can't get to grips with this, you shouldn't pick up a control pad. It would be harder to get used to twin stick FPS controls than this."

Which is why approximately 99% of the people that enjoy movies, music, books and/or theatre don't pick up a control pad but only 97% doesn't pick up a Wii-mote. Controls are gaming's most limiting factor.

I tell you what, there is a market of people who do get it and want it. As I've said before, I sat down and was demo-ing GoW2 to the finacees family at xmas who had got an Elite and the actual comment I got from one of them was that "I found it a bit boring... I used to like those simple game like Sonic & Wonderboy3. Where you just run along and jump." That is the market. Much as I think something like Fallout 3 is wonderful, slap them down in front of that and it would be disinterest.

"Which is why approximately 99% of the people that enjoy movies, music, books and/or theatre don't pick up a control pad but only 97% doesn't pick up a Wii-mote. Controls are gaming's most limiting factor."

Mario better hang up his hat then, as Les has just told the world that nobody wants to play his games as they are to complicated, by implication.

Widge:

Thats precisely my experience too.
GoW2, RFOM, KZ2 - they are fantastic to the boys who love FPSs and Shooters, but there are millions of people that love Mario, Sonic, Crash, Banjo, Ratchet, Daxter, etc, that would love LBP had they known exactly what it is all about.

The marketing simply didn't impart that it is a very fun game underneath the level editing stuff too.

Criticising LBP for poor, inaccessible controls is like saying the entire gaming industry should just give up ad make party games instead.

"Then the same is true of any game, Wii, PS3, XBOX 360, or any platform, that involves controls any more complicated than the waggle or button mashing."

No, it depends on the public a game is targeted at. If they enjoy (or at least put up with, whether consciously or not) complex controls than complex controls are not an issue.

"For example, Would one suggest Chess was an unpopular, crappy game, just because people you know would rather play a quick game of kick-about with a ball in your garden instead?"

I certainly never would (or did).

Yeah the marketing for the game wasn't what it could be. Kooky and fun, yes, advertising the product, no.

Basically the game needs to sit in a bundle with every PS3 from now on to establish in the minds of people.

Les:

"No, it depends on the public a game is targeted at. If they enjoy (or at least put up with, whether consciously or not) complex controls than complex controls are not an issue. "

This is the problem the game had, there was no apparent target - hence my comment about it having crappy marrketing.
It clearly is a game that can be enjoyed by a larger number of people than currently do, but those that might have been interested dont really know what it's all about.

Not all 'casual gamers' are just interested in Wii Sports and nothing else, just as not all movie watchers just want to watch cheesy popcorn flicks all the time. Occasionally something deeper and more well thought out is in order.

What you have been suggesting is that because the controls are more complicated than the average party game, that nobody wants to play it.

Since you dont know who Sony were targeting it at, (which is precisely nobody as they dont seem to have targeted it at all- one of their key marketing problems), you cant categorically claim that their target audience ar dissinterestd because of Xy and Z.

Not bad really, for a new IP console exclusive. Sony could have easily bolstered that number with better marketing, but still, it's a decent score and not the 'failure' everyone was claiming. However, I wonder if it has been selling for half RRP in other countries, like it has here in Blighty for more than a month now.

I hope it has the legs to break the 2 million boundary at some point. And I'm certain there will be a sequel. I think LBP is fantastic and wish it every ounce of success.

PS - also, given that it has picked up at least a few GotY awards from big websites, perhaps Sony should re-release it soon with more fanfare as a GotY edition (perhaps with the best user-generated levels included?).

If they stuck up loads of quick fire clips of:

Four people bounding through a level on a skateboard, pushing shite about
Close ups of them customing their costumes
Quickly making a tank out of wood and making it move

that would have been much better. Oh wait a sec, that was the first vid they did on PSN wasn't it? The vid that sold it to me. WHY on earth not use that?

"Basically the game needs to sit in a bundle with every PS3 from now on to establish in the minds of people."

If the game was as good as people profess then 2 things would be apparent:

1) It wouldnt take a long and steep learning curve to be able to play the game at it's most basic level. You should'nt have to spend long amounts of time with a goddamn platformer just to be able to get the stupid character to land on a platform!

2) It would sell of it's own accord, just like so many games did at christmas, games with a far lower profile than the excessively whored LBP.


You are basically saying the game is worth nothing and needs to be given away free for it stand any chance of making sales figures. Unfortunately, giving it away free isn't going to help the game turn a profit, and if it ain't profitable then it won't get continued support..... oh, no my mistake. I forgot that Sony is now in the business of bankrupting itself by foisting products onto a market that has no interest in them.

"Mario better hang up his hat then, as Les has just told the world that nobody wants to play his games as they are to complicated, by implication."

Man, you're a drama queen... ;)

Of course Mario shouldn't hang up his hat. As LBP shows, there's still 1.3m people/households that do enjoy a slightly complex game. But if MM wanted to reach a significantly larger public, it should have made the game less complex. How hard is it to acknowledge that complexity limits sales opportunities? I personally don't 'blame' MM for making LBP as it is. I really, really enjoy it. At the same time I can detach myself from my own experience and see why other people might have issues with it.

If a patch fixes the controls I'll get back in.

As for creating a level - thats what I paid the devs £40 for. I aint fecking doing that.

"Basically the game needs to sit in a bundle with every PS3 from now on to establish in the minds of people."

If the game was as good as people profess then 2 things would be apparent:

"1) It wouldnt take a long and steep learning curve to be able to play the game at it's most basic level. You should'nt have to spend long amounts of time with a goddamn platformer just to be able to get the stupid character to land on a platform! "

It isnt nearly this difficult, and you dont, this is you and only you and your ficticious 19 friends.

"2) It would sell of it's own accord, just like so many games did at christmas, games with a far lower profile than the excessively whored LBP. "

It was only whored in the specialist press, and mostly dismissed by the likes of you and those who traditionally choose shooters as their preferred gaming genre.

The outside world largely doesnt know of it's existence, and has been marketed rather poorly - and I'm not the only one to state this.

Considering both these factors, it's done remarkably well to sell 1.3 million, and much higher profile games like Tomb-Raider , which have an inbuilt fan-base, had 6 platforms to sell to, have only done 200k more sales.

It's widely known that this was a very crowded period for gaming too - with games of decent quality coming out virtually every week. Fallout 3, Gears 2, RFOM 2, LBP, Fable II, to name but a few - all vying for gaming time and christmas preasent buying.

"You are basically saying the game is worth nothing and needs to be given away free for it stand any chance of making sales figures. Unfortunately, giving it away free isn't going to help the game turn a profit, and if it ain't profitable then it won't get continued support..... oh, no my mistake. I forgot that Sony is now in the business of bankrupting itself by foisting products onto a market that has no interest in them."

LBP has almost certainly turned a profit already. It was cheap to make, as MM are a very small team by modern standards, and it didnt require the level of preproduction that a game like MGS4, Gears 2, or Halo 3 would require.

Bundling it would also open up the possibility of DLC sales, level packs and the like to be sold later.

After all, bundling didnt hurt early Mario games establish themselves :-)

But then again, you are willfully refusing to see beyond your own nose with regards to this game.

Farticus hates = everyone else idiots.

LES:
" At the same time I can detach myself from my own experience and see why other people might have issues with it."

The difference is, you are exaggerating the 'pronlem' - as far as complexity goes.

This is no Metal Gear Solid, it's Jump and Run and Grab.

There are no complex camera controls, no complex button combinations. It is as simple as a platform game can be.
The only 2 things to remember are:

1.The slightly confusing 3 layer background that you have to negotiate occasionally.
2. The use of real world physics means that you occasionally falloff objects with slightly less flat surfaces.

The number of people this will confuse is rather less significant than you have been suggesting.

No less complicated than any other platformer of recent times, and far less complicated than any 3d platformer as you only have 2.5 planes of movement.

@ The_vorlon_man

Virgin 1? are you serious?

You don't agree that 'Terminator' was the right place for Sony to spend their money? As I said, it was full of GoW2 and Lara Croft adverts, some market research must show the show's demographic is games product fodder.

"The bulk of our marketing including our six figure TV advertising campaign doesn’t roll out until December".

That includes PSP, PS2, PS3, and every game therein, across several multichannel commercial stations.

I knew I should've edited my message as I spotted that I didn't include the point that it was budget for LBP television advertising that David Wilson was talking about; it does not include PSP, PS2, PS3 it was LBP's only.

Still, I saw plenty of television advertising for LBP in December, and I only watch an hour or two a day; Mrs StooMonster asked me about it a couple of times -- she saw the Godzilla advert and the Heavy Metal Mullet ones and said "Just what is that game about?"

Although I never watch or record ITV so can't comment about that channel; as I said, it looks like you don't watch the programmes that Sony's UK marketing targeted with their television advertising budget for LBP.

I have to agree that the difficulty is really pretty steep at points and not in an enjoyable way.

I would recommend it to people as a multiplayer sandboxy experience but to be honest the controls really spoil it as a true platforming experience (for me at least). Im not sure that it really is a 'casual' gamers type of game though, was it ever intended to be? Just because its cute doesnt mean that its targeted towards people who arent really gamers.

@The_vorlon_man

Spoken like a true ambassador to the once Great Sony empire, sadly now in decline. You fly the flag but your words are hollow.

You need to stop making excuses and constantly apologising on behalf of your beloved Sony. They keep ballsing up and the likes of you, Sony leghumping eternally obedient dog that you are, keep throwing yourself on your sword for them.

You do them no favours. They have been hurt this gen for the terrible mistakes they made with the PS3, but if you apologists dont stop covering up for them then they will make the same awful hash of their hardware and software again next gen and if that happens it absolutely will bankrupt them and we'll never have the great Playstation brand of old back again.

I dont want that any more than you. I loved my PS2 and I want a new Playstation with the great games catalogue the PS2 had. That isnt the PS3 or it's half-arsed software though, not by a long shot.

"There are no complex camera controls, no complex button combinations. It is as simple as a platform game can be."

Yet it's frustratingy inconsistent and difficult to do the most basic things. There is no other way that can be described but plain ol' bad controls.

"The difference is, you are exaggerating the 'pronlem' - as far as complexity goes."

I don't see it's complexity as a problem when reaching out to people that have been gaming for a while. Anyone capable enough to play Halo or any GTA will get through 95% of LBP with few problems. The controls aren't broken or anything. In no way did I exaggerate the complexity as the tool did that you quote (and who's part of my ignore list for a reason). It's just that it's more complex than e.g. Wii Sports and that limits its potential as a game to draw in the casual crowd while its 2D gameplay and the fact that you don't really shoot things in it puts off a lot of the less open minded established gamers.

I really don't see how you had so much trouble with the controls, Farticus. You couldn't even switch planes in the tutorial level. I think it was a case of problem between sofa and console or maybe something affecting your mind ... nah couldn't have been that ;). Maybe one of my controllers is duff?

"Although I never watch or record ITV so can't comment about that channel; as I said, it looks like you don't watch the programmes that Sony's UK marketing targeted with their television advertising budget for LBP.:

Virgin1, not the programme, is the problem. It's a very minor channel. It brings in less than 100k viewers on even a big name show like Terminator.

Sky 1, despite being high profile, is still only a million or so per high profile show.

C5, again, is a minor player, shows rarely getting above 2-3 million.

C4, despite BB, is still a minor player.

Also, 6 figures is PEANUTS for a supposed system seler.

Worldwide, MS spent $40 million JUST on Halo3!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_f...


So sorry, you just need to realise that you are wrong on this one.


ITV commands huge fees for adverts around shows like Coronation street and the like.

For a game like LBP, which is supposed to appeal outside the hardcore gaming market you would have expected a braoder range of shows and channels to advertise around. Minor multichannel channels around shows that are likely to appeal to ahrdcore gamers is not a smart move if you want the broader public to be aware of the game.

I'm sorry, but even 6 figures is peanuts for a big name game, when games like Halo have marketing budgets in the millions.

Even Spore has sold more than that.

I have to agree with Vorlon that I don't think LBP received particularly good marketing for a supposed system seller. We all know about it and the whole muslim music fiasco did get it into the mainstream press, but I don't think the casual Wii masses will be particularly aware or particularly interested in it.

As I said, they should re-release it as a GotY edition and really push it this time. Give it a few months, and perhaps include some of the DLC as well. After most of the raw sales have dried up, perhaps it would be a good idea to include it with the console, to really try to embed it in the PS3 consciousness.

I don't get it. I dont see where the love for this lacklustre game comes from

must resist the xbox ravings of the biggest xbot a**wipe on this site............... can't resist........ nope.

state LBP is crap and Surf's Up is good...... MUG.

Vorlon-Man, are you in all seriousness calling Five and Channel Four minor channels in the UK marketplace?

Also, not sure where you get your ratings figures from but you are again incorrect, the first series of Terminator on V1 averaged around 540k, the second series faired less well as expected but still averages around the 250k mark.

Sky One very rarely does over 1million for it’s shows, they did with Lost soon after they bought it from under Channel Four’s nose, but since then they have also had a large drop off.

Bones is a series that will see around 500k on a good day, whereas Fringe will only get about 250-300k.

Your understanding of the TV market is way off, so I wouldn’t go spouting off about that.

Farticus:
"Yet it's frustratingy inconsistent and difficult to do the most basic things. There is no other way that can be described but plain ol' bad controls."

Except it's none of those things in reality. It's you, only you and nobody else that calls tjhemt this.

If I press the Jump button quickly, sackboy jumps a little. If I press longer, he jumps higher. If I press left on the joystick, he goes left, ditto for right. Push up and down, he moves in and out of the planes on the level. I press the trigger button to grab.

That's it.

This is not massively different nor radical to any other platform game on any other system, and if you have any major difficulties with LBP, then you would with mario, Sonic, or any other 2d platformer for that matter.

As I said, as long as you bear in mind that there are 3 planes that Sackboy can move into along the 2d axis, and that everything reacts as it would in reality, then there really are no surprises.

I suspect the problem is you, though.

You are so bloody mindedly determined to hate the game that this is the most you can come up with, as it is unproveable and subjective.


However, if you can provide specific examples of where LBP is 'inconsistent and difficult' then we can discuss those specifics, cant we.

"It seems to me the more you have vested in the Playstation brand the more appealing LBP is..."

Tell that to Edge who gave it their only 10 last year and awarded it their game of the year.

Personally, I think it may have something to do with spacial dexterity. My ex girlfriend said guys have better spacial dexterity than gals, which leads me to believe maybe that's why it doesn't gel well with all girls. The guys on the other hand that I have shown the game to are able to pick up and play the game pretty quickly. It's just a theory, but there's definitely something about translating spacial movement into a pad that doesn't sit well with the ladies me thinks. Having said that my ex didn't have a problem with playing LBP and she wasn't much into games (how many are???), so it's definitely not black and white.

Triggerhappytel:

It sold considerably better as a £20-30 game, which absolutely point to people choosing to buy it once the price was more reasonable.

People wont pay £40 for a game they dont know, or are unsure about, and dipping into LBP was almost certainly a risk as hardly anything outside of the specialist press was known about it.

heck, even on here people continually still said 'I just dont get it' on a regular basis!

Poor farticus, for a videogame fan* to be surrounded by imaginary friends who are all shit at games it must be soul destroying.


* so called, I have my doubts.

"I really don't see how you had so much trouble with the controls, Farticus."

2 reasons:

1) The spongy feel of the controller's buttons combined with the seemingly inconsistent 'bite point' make the jump and grab mechanisms feel somewhat vague. If i press the buttons in what feels the same way 10 times I do not get 10 identical jumps/grabs.

2) The horribly floaty/slidy physics. Moving on a flat plane you can manage the inertia easily enough but add small platforms, moving objects and curved platforms to the mix and it becomes a chore to try to get anywhere.

If these things were fixed then it would be an okay platformer, but right now it feels like a tech demo that has not been fully realised into a game.

@ The_vorlon_man

Also, 6 figures is PEANUTS for a supposed system seler.

Worldwide, MS spent $40 million JUST on Halo3!

You are comparing LBP's budget in UK for a single communications channel (i.e. television) versus Microsoft's global budget for all communication channels (e.g. televisions, print, billboard, etc.)

Advertising around X-Factor obviously costs a fortune, the other end of the scale the smallest music channels can charge a mere £20 per minute (yep, those chat line ads are not expensive to run). Rather than blow the whole lot in one advert in Coronation Street it appears that Sony's advertising strategy was obviously highly focused around particular programmes. Whether this is different to others I don't know, did you see adverts for Halo 3 on peak ITV?

At Christmas I would say that I saw most GoW2 adverts, then LBP, then Fallout 3 and Tomb Raider. Maybe others saw different ones? Do they advertise FIFA on television, because I've never seen an advert for it.

I'm pretty sure that I saw print advertising for LBP in the broadsheets too, but who knows how much their print budget was? Either way, the point is you don't think it was enough ... versus Sony who had a budget driven by cost/return benefit case.

Petulant_Radish:

http://www.barb.co.uk/report/monthlyView...

Virgin 1 reaches 0.5% of the viewing public.

C4 reaches 6.3%

C5 reaches 4.6

Sky 1 reaches 1.2%

By contrast, ITV reaches 18.0

Specifc nightly viewing figures may peak on Terminator on Virgin1, but on average, they are tiny compared to larger channels., and this is the most high profile of all their shows.


"Your understanding of the TV market is way off, so I wouldn’t go spouting off about that. "

Pot, kettle, black.