LittleBigPlanet has sold 1.3m units Comments by Tom Bramwell

Why would they market LBP to people who watch ITV? Don't only old people and housewives watch Noel Edmonds and Heartbeat(well, that may have been a while ago) on that channel? Doubt they'll be interested in LBP. I saw plenty of ad's for LBP on Channel 4 though, I loved the one with Murray from Flight of the Conchords doing the voiceover. XD

StooMonster:

"You are comparing LBP's budget in UK for a single communications channel (i.e. television) versus Microsoft's global budget for all communication channels (e.g. televisions, print, billboard, etc.) "

So if MS had spent a '6 figure sum' on TV advertising on Halo 3 in the Uk, that would potentially represent between 1/30th and 1/300th of the total budget.
Are you seriously suggesting they'd spend so little on that?

Furthermore, you are correct in suggesting it was 'highly focussed'. Clearly that was the case, as it really is random who got to see it. Perhaps you were lucky, but nevertheless, I and many others have yet to see more than one or two here and there, but it's nowhere near the sort of coverage it needed to establish itself as a new brand.

"Do they advertise FIFA on television, because I've never seen an advert for it. "

It's an established brand, and automatically sells itself, as evidenced by Fifa being in the top 10 every year since it began as a franchise.

Furthermore, I've seen plenty of Fifa adverts for the Wii version over the last year.


" Either way, the point is you don't think it was enough ... versus Sony who had a budget driven by cost/return benefit case."

Clearly I am the one in the right, as the game didn't sell out immediately, and is a unknown quantity to many people.

Ahaha, I think before you say things like that you should think about it properly.

So what you’re doing is using the BARB panel in all TV homes in relation to a multichannel TV station, the terrestrials (which are the BBC, ITV, C4 & Five) will obviously have the largest share as they reach all homes.

What you actually need to do is break that down into things that really matter, like Freeview, PayTV & Cable homes, to get a much better indicator of what reach a channel has. There is no point in comparing either Sky one or Virgin 1 to the terrestrials.

I also happen to work in the industry, so I have a feeling my understanding may be a litte better on this than yours.

Also, you clearly didn’t mention the information on ratings that I gave you while stating a channels reach across a three month period. Are you also insinuating that these are in some way incorrect compared to your previous statement of fact?

@Farticus
1) You need to take account of what you are stood on and how you are stood on it. I've tested this plenty of times and it is consistent for me.
2) This is largely the same as any other platformer based on a 3d game engine. Has been there since Mario 64. Difference for me is that I was able to complete LBP because the 2.5D-ness compensates somewhat - never could get past some of the Mario 64 levels due to frustration with my skillz.

I would also add that if they made the changes you suggest it would remove a lot more than it would add - you'd probably need to have played a lot more of the game and understand how it all works and hangs together to appreciate that sentiment.

Maybe they should do an easy mode when you get stickier boots? Easy enough and just don't give out the level completion prizes.

"This is not massively different nor radical to any other platform game on any other system, and if you have any major difficulties with LBP, then you would with mario, Sonic, or any other 2d platformer for that matter."

Other 2D platformers aren't physics based. Anyone posting on this website will have played a lot of games and likely be used to physics-based elements in games now, including yourself I'd suggest, and as such can accommodate the nuances of controlling sackboy.

But this is exactly what my 9 year old lad and his little mates couldn't get their head around; they press Jump....yet nothing happens, resulting in sackboy falling to his death - purely because sackboy happened to be in a physics/animation-state that decreed he couldn't jump at that exact moment.

Initially my lad and his mates had great fun messing around, pulling faces, changing clothes, dancing, etc - then they'd hit a brick wall with their progress, give up in frustration and move onto something else.

imo it was simply too difficult for non-games savvy folk, and as such isn't being recommended through word of mouth amongst kids and mums. It's only 2 months since release and Amazon are selling it for £18. Clearly they have a metric fuckton of copies and can't shift them.

I found Mario Sunshine harder to platform with than LBP... some of those floaty no waterpack levels were absolute fuckers.

Fallout 3 is going for £18 - £20, WHAT A DISASTER

Oh and actually on topic, it took me a little while to get to grips with LBP, but when I did I found it enjoyable. My brother on the other hand picked it up immediately and thinks it’s the best thing ever.

Not sure how much longer the sales will hold out though, but it would indeed be a shame to see if fade away.

It's an established brand, and automatically sells itself

That's why there are no adverts for toothpaste and soap powder on highest reach channels ... oh wait!

it really is random who got to see it

Nope, the marketing team at Sony UK would've chosen specifically which programmes they paid for their adverts to be broadcast in; so whether you got to see the adverts was due to your taste in programmes. Maybe they are so clever that they knew the programmes that people who were likely to have already bought LBP would watch, and didn't waste money placing adverts in those shows?

" Either way, the point is you don't think it was enough ... versus Sony who had a budget driven by cost/return benefit case."

Clearly I am the one in the right, as the game didn't sell out immediately, and is a unknown quantity to many people.

You should write to Sony's management in UK and tell them this, I am sure they would value your input. :-)

"2) This is largely the same as any other platformer based on a 3d game engine."

But it's not a 3d platformer, and the controls bear absolutely no relation to a 3d platformer. Other 2d platformers manage this just fine, LBP has no excuse.


"I would also add that if they made the changes you suggest it would remove a lot more than it would add"

No, it would remove absolutely nothing. What it would ADD is a whole new audience who wouldnt play it before because the controls sucked.

@samk
You'd be hard pressed to find any big title which hasn't been available for < £30 this Christmas. I think Left4Dead is the only one I can think of. Metric Fukton of everything then eh?

@DrDamn: Aye, fair point I suppose on the prices. I still think it's too hard for kids etc though. :)

@Farticus
It has the same control peculiarities as every other 3d platformer. Like not being able to jump onto a crate floating in the water in Banjo Kazooie for example, and falling off it when trying to get back on due to inertia and floaty slidey physics. Sound familiar? 2d platformers are pixel and sprite based and therefore much easier to program tighter controls for.

"No, it would remove absolutely nothing."

It's an essential part of the game - seriously. You can't have physics applied to the game world but not your character.

@samk
I got it for my 11 year old nephew for Christmas I'll see how he got on with it. I got it as I think he'd enjoy the creation side mind. I also completely blew his main present from his parents as they hadn't given him the PS3 yet :D. Not my fault, they knew I was getting it for him and it was already boxing day ffs.

I'm still loving it, its a fun game, controls can be a pain sometimes.

The main problem with LBP is that people STILL dont know what it is, even with the advertising, the advertising has been too confusing for people to understand.

Anyway I find it funny that people are arguing over a game that sold over 1.3 million, thats pretty good for a single platform game, and hopefully it will slowly edge up to 2 millon.

What I would find more interesting is how some of the other Xmas game releases sold.

Going back to the actual article here - having seen the presentation the headline is actually wrong. Kaz Hirai said LBP has had 1.3m unique users playing it on PSN - so actual sales should be greater than that. I think the original misquote came from Gamespot and everyone else has copied it. It also explains where Sony got the figure from (PSN stats not sales figures).

"It has the same control peculiarities as every other 3d platformer."

No, no it doesnt at all. The difficulty in 3d platformers is in judging depth when you are viewing a 3d scene on a 2d plane and fighting against a floating camera. Any jump in a 3d platformer is generally a piece of piss if the camera can be moved to an exactly side-on view as it is in LBP.


"Like not being able to jump onto a crate floating in the water in Banjo Kazooie for example, and falling off it when trying to get back on due to inertia and floaty slidey physics."

Hmm.. comparing flat, solid platforms in 2d to floating, moveable crates in 3d with a floating camera... not a relevant comparison I'm afraid.

But again, it's not a problem if you have a fixed side-on camera and the problem in 3d games in general is positioning yourself at the lip of the crate, not the jump onto it. Of course there are exceptionally bad 3d games around which suffer from poor inertia as well as bad camera controls.


"2d platformers are pixel and sprite based and therefore much easier to program tighter controls for."

We're not talking about pixel-perfect jumping here. This is failure-to-launch/not-hitting-barn-door style missing of jumps.


"You can't have physics applied to the game world but not your character. "

True, but the addition of a random 'shall I fire or not' routine to the buttons and application of virtual banana skins the soles of characters boots is really not something I'd consider necessary.


Whether or not you have adapted to the controls is one thing, but the fact is I've played loads of 2d platformers on many different platforms which do not suffer from these problems. I've also played full floating camera 3d platformers with far more precise platforming.


To me this is just another in a long line of games which have been developed with edict from above: "Make it look great, but don't spend much time on the gameplay. What's important is the magazine/website shots."

"This is not massively different nor radical to any other platform game on any other system, and if you have any major difficulties with LBP, then you would with mario, Sonic, or any other 2d platformer for that matter. "


Sorry, but I have to say that is not the case. I have played all the way through all the Marios and consider myself to be pretty decent at it. LBP s control system, for me and quite a few others it seems, is what spoils it in terms of it being a great platformer.

To say that if you have problems with it then youd have problems with all platform games is quite simply a pointless and untrue statement. LBPs controls are woolly and that has been a concern from day one amongst reviewers and players alike. This is not to say that I dont like it on the contrary, I love it. I've had great times with it particularly with friends online (which where it really shines) but the controls are a factor that frustrate many people.

I think perhaps this is not an issue for people who have never really played Mario et al as they have nothing to compare it to but if you have played the classic platformers then I fail to see how you could think of the controls as being anything other than innacurate and irritaing.

Ive got over this now as you learn to accomodate but it doesnt change that niggle underlying when on occasion again and again you cant perform the most basic of platforming tasks.

@Farticus
"Whether or not you have adapted to the controls is one thing ..."

Surely adapting to unplayable controls is not possible? ;). There are plenty of cases in 3D platformers where jumps are failed due to exactly the problems you are talking about. It's not simply a case of camera it's to do with interaction of two 3D objects and how they react off each other. I've already noted that I find the game easier to control than 3D platformers due to the viewpoint - which is not always side on incidentally.

As I've said before - the key aspects of the game appear not to tick the right boxes for you. That doesn't make it any less of a game. Gameplay is so much more than the controls and here the majority find them more than adequate. There is a hell of a lot more to enjoy than what you are focusing on. However if you can't get on with the controls I can see why that would be a sticking point. I never got on with the Metroid controls for the 3D games - to me they were an abomination never got past the first level on the GC, however I understand that plenty of people do get on with it and enjoy what is undeniably a great game.

Petulent, Stoomonster
"What you actually need to do is break that down into things that really matter, like Freeview, PayTV & Cable homes, to get a much better indicator of what reach a channel has. There is no point in comparing either Sky one or Virgin 1 to the terrestrials. "

When selling a product to the public, do you honestly think it matters wether a channel reaches 10% of all cable viewers, when calbe viewers represent x percentage of the viewing public as a whole?

" Maybe they are so clever that they knew the programmes that people who were likely to have already bought LBP would watch, and didn't waste money placing adverts in those shows? "

Spending marketing money to advertise broadly across all stations that have a broad demographic, for programmes that have a wide reach like X-Factor and Corrie works better for a product you wish to appeal to a broad range of people.

Advertising Gears of War 2 to mums and dads during daytime telly would be far less effective than sticking it on during Terminator, and likewise, a game that is supposed to appeal to as many peple as possilble - families, core gamers, etc - you would want as broad a spread as possible.

Clearly Sony focussed too heavily on one demographic and not enough on another.

You both fail to see this and are determiend to nit-pick specifics, ignoring the greater picture.

"Sorry, but I have to say that is not the case. I have played all the way through all the Marios and consider myself to be pretty decent at it. LBP s control system, for me and quite a few others it seems, is what spoils it in terms of it being a great platformer. "

I would say a vocal minority rather than 'quite a few', but that is nit picking. The fact is, it's applying physics and if you cant get used to that, without it being fully 3d, then you are at fault and not the game. Simple as.

Plenty of critics, and gamers, have fallen bigtime for this game, and sales are proof of this.

As has previously been stated in this thread, it's actually 1.3million unique people online with the game, not 1.3 million sales, so sales are probably a lot higher than that (Dr Damn posted 1.8m elsewhere, which is higher than many multplatform games, if true).

That's far, far, far from a flop for a platform 8 million behind and with a much lower attach rate for games.

@The_Vorlon_Man
"The fact is, it's applying physics and if you cant get used to that, without it being fully 3d, then you are at fault and not the game. Simple as."

I wouldn't say the gamer is at fault - it's just a design decision doesn't sit well with them and they don't enjoy the game so much - fair enough. The overall physics based approach does add lot more to the game than it takes away - maybe you have to be into the create side to appreciate that - I wouldn't have it changed though, even if it meant huge sales.

@DrDamn

I'll make this my last post on the subject as I'm seemingly hitting a wall of denial here and we've veered a bit off topic:

* There catagorically ARE issues with the controls, I have felt them first-hand and tend to trust my hands and head more than words on a web page. The issues are not unique to LBP but there are games which handle controls far better.

* Persevere a bit and the controls can be adapted to so although not game-breaking for everyone is most definitely game-breaking for some, and not a problem for others.

* The game would be far more accessible, and sell far more if the controls were fixed.


The thing is you don't notice the control issues as you've got used to it. As an outsider they are all too apparent to me.

Ok my last word. I don't think that the controls were perfect - or even the best they could be - they are absolutely not "unplayable" though. I also agree that the controls are game breaking for some people, I know of you and a couple of Geezers where it's been a problem. However to balance that I know of more Geezers for whom the game has been an absolute stand out title of the year than have had a problem with it.

Actually Vorlon Man, it is again you who have appeared to have missed the point, as I was never arguing with you about advertising for LittleBigPlanet to any extent, I once said I had seen quite a lot of it, that was all.

What you are attempting to do is brush off was the ratings info I corrected you on, and are going to point blank refuse to recognise that even though, and I shall paraphrase you here, clearly I am the one in the right.

And on your other point though, yes it does matter to advertisers if a channel reaches a percentage of anything, otherwise they wouldn’t advertise there, would they?

The problem with LBP for me is that I got bored of it quick not to mentioned that it was frustrating to play. I never got to the point where I wanted to continue to play the game to get the controls down because what I was doing wasn't fun. Maybe I have played to many platform games where just jumping and grabbing doesn't do it for me any more. I like complexity in my platfomers but only when i am giving a lot of different abilities. The jumping physics nature of LBP just did not appeal to me and because of the controls, I could not get with any of the custom levels created.

300,000, you say?

subtract the amount of levels made that are an entrance and an exit and then subtract the levels made just to be hearted (I am guilty of this) and then subtract the entrance/exit/paintinator levels made to get that trophy and how many "real" levels are there?

That 300,000 is as misleading as the 17 million user accounts (I have 5)

I hope Littlebigplanet sells more than this. Its a wonderful game and this game should sell 1:1 with each ps3 console.

Thats a fair point from both of you. Im not directly comparing it to Mario etc. either. Also I totally see your point about the physics and that is what makes the game what it is and if it were like Mario then it would spoil the game. BUT it still remains the same to me in terms of frustration.

There are points in the game that are very tricky and I felt that it was down to luck and ball aching repetition that I got through as opposed to any skill, this to me was because of the control. For the record Im not dissing the game, Ive already stated that its a huge laff but I still feell that its appropriate to make critical observation based on personal experience.

@ DrDamn

Were your numbers from VGChartz? If so, NOW can we please stop quoting them? They were so off it's ridiculous.

@Ronuds
See comments above - Hirai was talking about 1.3m online players, not copies sold. I always said my numbers were with salt and actually used as a point of comparison - so still valid in that context. This article is just as wrong and possibly moreso.

Well, vgchartz still sucks! :P

so no PC launch for a while then...

@ The_vorlon_man

Come on, man! At least have some bloody consistency to your ranting:

"I also have Sky +, and have yet to see a single LBP advert on broadcast TV."

"My wife's comment was "But the adverts I saw made it look rubbish, what youre playing is MUCH better!'.. "

As mentioned previously, there were quite a few tv adverts before Christmas in the UK - I remember that one night of the week before Christmas week, every single ad-break on a film had a LBP advert as both the first and last one. 'Twas on ITV, but couldn't tell you what the film was...