Left 4 Dead 2 Comments by Christian Donlan

It still does sounds like they've turned L4D2 out really fast (for Valve), and none of it really seems to be anything that couldn't have been DLC, but they are getting a hard time for this when countless other publishers/developers do it each year.

I still think - and I didn't think this up, but I can't remember who did - that Left 2 Die would make a better name for the sequel.

Still, I'm sure it will be good. I can only hope EA decide to port it to the PS3 :(

I think it needs a sequel. Not that I'm bored yet, but I can see me being a bit fed up of L4D1 by the time this is released. With things like gauntlets, the new finales, new special Infected and new maps, I'd say that's more than enough to justify a sequel. It should, if done right, feel quite fresh. It is Valve after all, I'll keep the faith until I have reason not to :)

Valve vs spoilt kids

spoilt kids loose

I've never been inspired enough to get the Gold Live account (choosing to buy a game instead) so I second Tel's hope that this goes onto the PS3.

I played L4D1 on in-room co-op with my housemate and it's a great game, so I look forward to the sequel.

I think Doug has given plenty of sound reasons why Left 4 Dead 2 is going to work - and for all those rabid, angry people venting at Valve it seems they do have plans to keep supporting the first game, so kudos to Valve. I think we all win here. I hope the rabid mass can see this and start being a bit more rational now...

"We're privately held, we've been very fortunate in the sales of our games, so we have absolute flexibility on what we want to do and when we want to ship it"

Or, in other words, "We can do whatever the fuck we want". And I salute them for it.

it does seem like they bundled possible DLC into a more unique package I guess (originally they said there were going to be new characters, chapters, weapons etc) and hopefully the fundemental changes of the game will be worth it

While I wasn't a massive fan of the original (it was decent enough, but just didn't have much going for it extended play wise for me), it was still a great game, and hopefully this will be an improvement (the Gauntlet sections sound cool, and it sounds like there will be more variation to make replaying levels more exciting)

I'm a sucker for valve games in general, so yeah, will probobly get it (I usually end up caving in and getting the preorder as it works out cheaper, at least until a weekend deal)

L4D is a regular weekly PC internet game with some friends, we love it to pieces; good to get free DLC but not bothered about paying for L4D2, sounds great.

Definitely looking forward to HL2:Ep3 too, and Portal 2 nearly as much; and TF2 just gets better and better.

Cash in or not - its going to be one of the best games this year no doubt.

Its not coming to PS3 thats for sure.

I tried playing Left 4 Dead with my friends. Then we realized there were only 4 levels (each taking about an hour to finish) so we tried playing them again.. but it was almost exactly the same, with only like 5-6 different infected, so we all got tired of it.

I guess it was just not for us.

First one was very over-rated, good game but nothing that special.

Also what were the sales of L4D on the 360 like? I'm the only person I know that has it.

why doesnt anyone give out about all the EA sports games then! they could all be patched with the new shirts/teams and tweak the gameplay that way. but because this isnt a sports game everyone is going spare! they are not a charity and need to make money for fudge sake

@EuroSexMachine

Nobody is forcing you to buy the sequel. The sales will tell if it was a good move by Valve or not to release the sequel this soon. Vote with your wallet. Im buying day one without hesitation.

One easy (I think) way of making Left 4 Dead 2 more replayable (at least for me) would be to allow for several different ways through each level. Instead of designing each level as one long corridor, from insertion point to extraction point, you'd be able to choose between a path over rooftops, a path through alleyways and one through the subway.. as an example.

I for one welcome our new zombie overlords.

but you have to admit when you're wrong. and you're 100% wrong to back Valve on this

Let's agree to disagree on this then. I agree with your comments on Fallout 3, now that's a great 'care package' for consumers righ there, sure you have to pay for it, and if you buy all the content it adds up certainly, however you don't need it, you get a complete game without it anyway (apart from perhaps not being able to continue playing after the end). If you do buy it all though, you get a hell of a lot of bang for your bucks.

As for L4D there will be further support, and for those of us who want to move on we can buy the next version if we want - nobody's forcing you to, so perhaps get off your soap-box?

Go ahead and click the little red nerd rage button next to my post, I love it when I'm told off, makes me so hard in my pants.

I love it when 'tards are let out for the day and spend the day spouting tosh on the internet - great stuff, you're my hero of the day.

@ El-Dev - "First one was very over-rated, good game but nothing that special."

This I agree with.

I have Left 4 Dead for the PC and it's fun and a good laugh for the odd 10 to 15 online session but it feels like a Half-Life 2 mod to me and it's not something I could play for hours on end. It's far too shallow for that. Valve have also missed out on an opportunity to make a decent single player campaign with a story line (a la Dead Rising) too so the game feels somewhat half-baked at best. What it does it does well enough but there's no substance to the game to keep me playing it.

One easy (I think) way of making Left 4 Dead 2 more replayable (at least for me) would be to allow for several different ways through each level. Instead of designing each level as one long corridor, from insertion point to extraction point, you'd be able to choose between a path over rooftops, a path through alleyways and one through the subway.. as an example.

Supposedly the first game had that, but they cut it as it was too confusing for people play(test)ing it. That given, I'm not sure why picking one of several linear paths wouldn't be doable.

Sounding Fantastic for the benefit of everybody but then i probably will still be behind the times and not get it till much later.

I can conly say that i think much of the technology is staying the same and minor improvements are happening, meanign they are really milking the product a bit, but it also sounds like there is alot of milk in it!

love the first - insta-purchase for the second for me.

it is odd though, given how simple the game is to play, how many hours i have put into it. maybe i'm simple.... :S

So they have an interview with the bigshot Marketing guy and they dont ask why its not coming out on PS3 (we all know its not, but it would be good to ask that question :)

I like the 2 finger salute on the box cover.

I play every night. I've clocked up easily over a hundred hours. I've got my money's worth. But I still don't like what they're doing.

The game still feels unfinished - hell, if you fail to connect to a server it dumps you to the main menu and you have to set up your preferred difficulty and map again. But I've been playing in the mistaken belief that they would flesh out the game into the kind of online shooter that other companies would release. It started off with four campaigns, only two of which could be played team-versus-team. And no provision for custom maps. That's hardly up to the standard of, say, the Unreal Tournament series, right?

But we kept playing, and waiting, and keeping the faith. And we got an update - the Survival gametype. And it was, well, a bit rubbish. Essentially, take out small portions of existing maps, close off exits, then just add a timer to see how long players would last in it. It can't possibly have taken long to create, and it's not taken off at all.

So the E3 announcement for L4D2 did sit ungraciously with us. It was just ill-mannered to say they'd be releasing a new version with all of us still wondering when they'd pull their finger out regarding the old one. When L4D was released Valve staff affirmed to the press that it would be augmented continuously in the style of TF2 but we haven't seen that at all. After E3, it felt that L4D2 would actually BE all the updates that Valve said they would supply L4D. Valve are also on record saying they release free DLC rather than nickel-and-dime existing customers to encourage more people to buy the original. But putting all the new content into one package and charging full whack for that is equivalent to charging for DLC.

So when Valve say they don't charge for nice updates, maybe they don't - they just find a different way to get the money from you.

Talk about mixed messages:

So we got one game in which every moment is hand crafted, and another game which can be thrown together including a frying pan if you wish.

Now guess which game is the small priced DLC and which one is the full retail game.

They probably started on something major for L4D1 but that project probably got bigger and bigger so they just decided to make L4D2 so they could sell it to the console crowd.
I'm indiffirent as I will most likely get L4D2 anyways. I hope they will continue for a while on L4D1 though and give the possibility to import characters and "movies" from the first to the second.

What I want to know is, will there be flooded parts of New Orleans? And will movement be hindered by going through water?

i have had more than my 40quids worth out of left4dead and compared to other entertainment on hourly basis its dirt cheap can spend £40 at the pub in 1 night.i do not mind l4d2 as long as it improves on the first mainly by adding at lot more chapters (and weapons)this time as their is no excuse for only 4 espicially as its a multiplayer game.a lot of the publicity and complaints have been engineered by sony fanboys who are jealous and pc gamers who hate paying for anything.cod fifa do it every year why not the excellent valve enjoy the profits

"Fallout 3 continues to provide good quality DLC that expands the gaming world while providing new storylines, enemies, weapons at regular intervels. So any argument you make in favour of Valve is instantly fucking weak."

That's a good argument. Each Fallout DLC adds what, 4 hours of gameplay at the cost of about £6-7 each (depending on where you buy your points from). When have you ever had to pay for all the updates Valve publish? TF2 and to a lesser extend L4D (it is a year younger) still receive and are still going to receive input form Valve. How many other games publish map packs that you have to purchase, where Valve give them away for free?

And as everyone has said, you don't have to buy L4D2 and to some extend they are cross compatible anyway.

Ultimately my dear, what I'm trying to say is that you're a spastic.

Everyone saying that EA do this every year with fifa and other sports games and activision with COD, needs to understand that these companies are seen as scum by a lot of people for doing this. Soooo that essentialy means that now Valve should be treated as scum as well. There shouldnt be people saying " oh well its valve, they make good games MOST of the time, so i will let them off this once for realeasing a full price update of essentially the same game". Its just wrong.

"I for one welcome our new zombie overlords."

I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.

"Each Fallout DLC adds what, 4 hours of gameplay at the cost of about £6-7 each (depending on where you buy your points from). When have you ever had to pay for all the updates Valve publish?"

To which I refer sir to my point:

"...putting all the new content into one package and charging full whack for that is equivalent to charging for DLC."

Seems that Ep 3 will be out late next year, at the earliest. Some 3 years after the last episode. Now that's 'episodic' content right there Valve. Thank god they don't write TV shows.

If they did a surprise Orange box 2 announcement with Ep 3, portal 2 and Left 5 dead, that would be awesome

I don't really give a crap about the whiners, I'm getting this day one.

Good to see a little more effort being put into the story too.

I didn't think the addition of a frying pan was an improvement. In fact I thought it added an unwelcome element of slapstick to an otherwise witty and well thought out game. Except that whole cutting the cheese thing...

I think this is going to be the first Valve game I don't buy. That's a pretty amazing record when I think about it.

edit: Tell a lie, I didn't get Day of Defeat or that weird single-player Counter-Strike spin-off either.

I'm curious - of the people that aren't buying it due to it feeling like expanded DLC, would you object if it was a DLC type price? Like Shivering Isles, £20-25 price range.

I'll still have this, it'l no doubt be bigger than the first game, so I'd personaly regard it as more than an expansion. I reckon it'd still be a nice option to have the individual levels available as DLC for 1 though.

Well, I play on PC and £20-25 is about what I'd normally pay for a new game, not DLC.

But honestly it's a combination of not being as big a fan as some of L4D1; not really being wowed by the new direction (I'm another who's not too keen on frying pans); and not wanting to encourage more yearly sequels from Valve.

But if there were new campaigns coming out for the L4D1, maybe at around £5 or so a pop, I'd probably pick them up.

I dont understand the problem with many people.
Valve is a company who are to make profits regardless as to how you see it.

They still make great games and if they release left 4 dead on a yearly basis, then id certainly buy it compared to football or boxing, or every other sport possible. Yet i don't hear people complaining about the fact EA do this, well actually i did but everyone has given up moaning about it.

Left 4 Dead has possibly been the most played game i have owned in ages and for the price i payed, ive got alot of hours to the £ out of it. The people complaining about a sequel being released (so soon) are so tight its shocking.

And i do look at these boycott groups that are going about for a good laugh. 99% of the people who "support" those groups will end up buying the game anyway...

http://www.gamestracker.com/buy-left-4-d...
£26.99 pre-order sounds good to me.

Regarding new campaigns for L4D1: Valve have only just now enabled custom maps in the game. The first proper, ready, honest-to-gosh-good-as-a-Valve-map is out. Ensure the game is patched up to date then download and run the VPK file of Death Aboard. You can play it in single player...finding a server is going to be a bit harder.

Soon to come: I Hate Mountains and Dead by Dawn (the latter is a shopping mall!)

To answer the DLC cost: I'd be very happy for two reasons:

(1) The L4D community would not be fragmented by having two different games.
(2) It'd force Valve to climb down from the Holier-than-thou attitude about charged DLC. L4D2 is charged DLC in all but name.

I really like Valve, but this guy talks a lot of wind with the best of them. That paragraph on people playing games that seem like a 'shooting gallery' makes no sense at all. What's a shooting gallery game? Halo? You never learn anything really interesting at all - other than that the design process is *always* a case of 'ungh, well, we tried a bunch of stuff and it kinda worked out'.

@kwesleyb

I've said it before, but if you don't know why saying "EA and Activision do it too and no-one complains" is the worst possible argument you could make, then you there is no surprise you don't understand how anyone could have a problem with this.

@FogHeart

Dead by Dawn does indeed look great. There's also a Resi Evil 2-based campaign on the way that I'm looking forward to.

You could have asked about the community split of people playing L4D and people playing L4D2.

It isn't as if that is what Valve wanted for 1.6 and Source (hence their removal of support for 1.6!)

These L4D2 threads have been crying out for the EG karma system. Finally I don't have to read any more unoriginal recycled whining.

I thought L4D1 had some of the tightest game design I'd seen in a long time. I can understand when people say it should have a stronger story, or a single player campaign (I don't agree, but I understand). But I feel that what L4D demonstrated well is what can be achieved when have a clear target in mind, with a series of clear MUST HAVEs, and you stick to it.

No game can please everybody. All you can really do is decide who your target audience is and give them the best experience you can. L4D1 clearly knows what it is (a co-op zombie survival game), it clearly knows that it isn't (a story rich single player experience) and every single bit of game design seems to have kept that in mind. Even if L4D isn't entirely your bag, I think you have to appreciate it as an example of good game development.

lets put it this way valve gave us the superb bargain the orange box (yes even on ps3)which on its own gives them a break to do a "cash in" on l4d if thats what it is.i for one are more than happy with the "if its not broken dont fix it mantra"(cod4 anyone). as long as valve who everyone trusts this far makes a reasonable amount of new content to the definitive 360 co op game.

@hiddenranbir

I thought previous commentary from Valve had suggested they were working towards eliminating this. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some cross compatability in the future. We might even see a patch for L4D1 (paid for or free, who knows) that adds all of the L4D2 gameplay mechanics (if not the new maps and characters) to L4D1 at some point.

@donnie080208

True. I've got a bundle of hours of gameplay out of L4D1, more than the 10 hours we seem to think is acceptable from so many other titles. So it would be a little rich of me to call them money grabbing for not supplying me with free DLC until the end of time (or even till the end of the year).

Do you know what I'd like to see and would make L4D2 and instant purchase (not that it isn't already)?

Up to 8 Player Co-op split into 2 different partys and sent to two different far reaching start points that converge towards the end. They could use all 8 characters then.
Possibly even 16 player Versus although they'd have to find a way to stop all 8 zombies slaughtering one team first. ;)

The only thing that gripes me with L4D co-op is we quite often have a 5 or 6th player who then can't get in a game with us. Splitting the team for Versus doesn't quite cut it as part of the reason we play is to be social.

"Up to 8 Player Co-op split into 2 different partys and sent to two different far reaching start points that converge towards the end. They could use all 8 characters then."

Thats, like, 2x the game :)

Why didn't the Valve 'suit' come clean and admit it hasn't taken long to create L4D2 because it's essentially just a mod, with a cut scene at the begining. And a very short one at that. It uses textures and engine from another game, and even the 'director AI' is straight out of a past game. There's no story, music, voice acting, anything, really to speak of. It's short on maps, which are incredibly linear, it has only a few choices of weapon or character. Sure it's a bit fun (if you can find a couple of people who understand the concept of teamwork!), but co-op has always been fun.

The biggest issue with this game, and why the people who are upset are, is the price. This game and no doubt all of the sequels to come (if they remain as simple and small as the first) are barely worth more than the price of a mod (baring in mind mods are usually free!). I bought it second hand and still feel cheated. Compared to the games like GTA, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Call of Duty, Bioshock, whatever your favourites have been over the last couple of years, you can't honestly believe L4D was worth the same.

As games on the 360 have only two prices effectively; full price and arcade price, Left4Dead should be sold at the same price as the cheap stuff. I have been buying games for years, for various systems, and although I've made mistakes and ended up getting rid of some early, I've never felt ripped off before. Oh, and added to that, the game's full of glitches... I've never seen anything like this before. Along with Achievements that encourage people to play on easy difficulties, the game just screams 'cheap' to me.

Saying that, I don't blame Valve for doing this... all they care about is profit, and what better way than to spend as little time as possible on a project, for the largest financial rewards. It's the first person shooter equivalent of the yearly updated sports game. I expect many more to follow now developers finally understand that you don't need to spend years and have huge budgets to keep a bunch of gamers happy, just make a co-op game with enough built in cheats, every gamer feels they're good at it.

A good idea would be to give people who already have L4D a discount on the new game, to make up for not delivering on their DLC promise. Won't happen though, and I don't blame Valve either to be honest. A business has the main aim of making a profit which they must be doing.

I can't believe the first is still full price everywhere despite being out a while, that's impressive.