LBP would not work on 360 "as it is"
PS3 hard drive, Blu-ray a large factor.
Media Molecule boss Alex Evans has said LittleBigPlanet "as it is" would not work on Xbox 360, mainly because the game had been developed with only one system in mind.
"The 360 is an incredibly capable machine, and you could make a user-generated content game on it, no question - just as you could make one on the PS2 or the Mega Drive, or any platform," Evans told GamesIndustry.biz. "But because we picked our platform, you go and you use every available bit of space, every little processor cycle.
"The design decisions on the PS3 are huge, and I'm sure you realise that having a hard drive on every unit makes a difference. That's another thing - if we didn't have a hard drive on every unit, we'd have to scale back the ambition of what you could save and do.
"So yes, you could make this game on the 360, but it'd be a different game."
Blu-ray capacity, Evans pointed out, also made a difference, with LittleBigPlanet occupying around 40GB because of its tutorial content for players and creators.
Head over to GamesIndustry.biz for part one of the interview with Alex Evans, where he talks about Sony pressure, Peter Molyneux's advice to "go for broke", and explaining the game concept to his mum.
LittleBigPlanet is due out exclusively for PlayStation 3 on 31st October.
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Comments (145) Latest comment 3 years ago
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How many news stories can you get out of one (late and unreleased) game? Every bloody week for years...
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Halo & LBP
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This wouldn't work on the 360 because Sony own the IP.
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Thats massive, bigger than 7 standard DVD movies!
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Yea for bluray and standard HDD...
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'Is it even a game?'
Oh you
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"Don't like sack boy"
Shocker of the year.
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Tutorial aside Im sure this can be done
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Do they really need such a large amount of tutorials. I thought this was supposed to be super easy.
Well, maybe it will mean it will be pretty deep at least.
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As for tutorials taking up lots of space - comprehensive tutorials for what they are trying to acheive is key. They could be done on the 360 using SD video or on mulitple discs without too much of a problem - it just a little nicer to have it HD and on one disc. No a big thing though.
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It needs to be easy to create the basic stuff but more indepth creation such as using triggers etc which will be required for longevity of the title would necessitate more tutorials. It needs to be this way.
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Yeah, figured that. It is actually pretty web 2.0 to have on disc tutorials. Like Apple or Adobe do.
Beats an unclear manual if you can see it.
The we need BR claim is pretty void though if it''s just because of tutorials.
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40GB?
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There really isn't anything more to say.
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So, it's a degree, not a game?
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LittleBigPlanet coming to 360 shocker!!1
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I don't think anything substantial can be said when a 4GB game has 36GB tutorials and requires a Bluray disk.
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I really wonder if these devs that use 30/40/50Gb etc sit there wondering "Hmm, what crap can we cram in"
Just seems odd how most games require nothing like 50Gb, yet some apparently can't do without it.... *cough*BS*cough* They fit GTA IV on a DVD - they can fit this on. End of.
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The level creator on Neverwinter Nights was amazing until i realised i have no artistic talent at all. All i was left with was a very average RPG.
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so has my PS3 reached the end of it's lifespan already?! Crap
It's probably all in 1080p, hence 40GB
maybe it's 4GB for the game and 36GB of the XXX sackboy hot stuff going on there?
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there
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@Miiiguel
"So, it's a degree, not a game?"
No. It's accessible but if you want depth in the gameplay you need depth in what you allow people to create and do. Therefore there will be levels of complexity in the creation process. They've shown you can create quite a lot with basic knowledge. If you want to do something more complex then you have to put the time in and learn to do it. That is helped greatly by some nice swish tutorials voiced by Stephen Fry.
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People who want to play a good game and 'not create things' won't buy the game. Simple.
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That is scary..., and starts to sound like a non-ludic activity. I don't want to be a game designer, I just want to play them. But hey, I'm not judging, I bet some ppl will enjoy it.
edit: a bit like XNA with pictures ?
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Halo & LBP "
So true - hopefully LPB will be the one living up to the hype
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I do believe that some of the games using massive amounts of GB's is due to no compression (fair enough there is room) and duplicated data (to try and combat slow read/seek speeds)
I am still waiting to see this massive advantage of blu-ray for games.
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Agreed, however are they specifically designed for the 360? Did MS cosy upto Square for future exclusives?
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Wiimote a large factor.
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Can't be more shallow than FPS games.
Video games are ALL shallow by nature. I can't believe how some people can be so hypocritical about it.
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Even though I personally hope the game will bomb
Fixed. Don't mention it.
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thanks for the link
I was wrong, but reading it does make me wondere where on earth the 40GB size comes from? especially since he says that the levels are supposed to be tiny in (MB) size to improve sharing speeds... odd?!
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I played this in Leipzig, several times as it was such good fun. It's just a really fun game to play, simple as that, how games should be. Even more so if you're doing multiplayer. If you're not a fan of creating stuff, then just play the levels on the disk and download other people's high rated ones, that's the point of having the huge hub there!
I don't own a PS3, but wasn't expecting it to ever get released on the 360, it's a good game, but doesn't justify buying the console as little else appeals to me. Ok, maybe MGS4.
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"anyone seen the Kratos sackboy? looks quite good actually"
They are quite cute, I've seen some shots of Nariko sackboy/girl too.
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However, watching videos recently the platforming bits looked very sluggish - not fast-paced like I'd imagined. Eagerly awaiting the reviews.
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So,
My point is whether the game is a roaring success (probable)
You think the game is probably going to be a roaring success.
and,
I personally think the game will bomb
you think it will bomb. My fault, apologies all round.
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I have to laugh at those using GTAIV as evidence that DVD will always be enough.
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I'm sure the videos will work almost as well though.
@Arbiter
Alternately you could just use a DVD format movie on to a DVD and you'd end up with no artifacts (or at least no visible ones). Obviously, you would lose your HD but it's better than Blocky-Artifactville. In this particular case the tutorials could be stored in SD with very little real impact.
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Luckily it's not coming out on Xbox then.
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You do realize that 1080p games aren't just a series of 1920x1080 pixel bitmaps don't you? You don't need massive amounts of storage space just because a game runs at 1080, it's exactly the same but just drawn on a higer definition window.
You can run most PC games at 1920x1200 if you have the monitor, and you don't get a bigger disc for it.
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I meant the vids (tutorials) in 1080p encoding. not the game itself... I do know how it works with regard to resolution. Sorry if I didn't explain myself properly.
@Arwin
that makes sense.
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Not in this thread, no.
because I know you have a particular problem understanding
How did youn know that?
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Oh, ok. I'd assume any vids would be using the in-game engine anyway, like MGS.
I'm a bit baffled as to how you fill a 40GB disc up with content. Textures and models can only be so big otherwise they don't fit in RAM, and like you say the levels are meant to be small for downloads.
Maybe it's just full of HD porn.
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'HD porn.'
thats only in the review copies
suddenly, 10/10s everywhere
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What a boring attempt at baiting.
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Read the article and what the bloke actually said - it's not him saying the stupid thing ...
@BobsUncle
Downloadable levels are only small because you already have the larger info available on the disc.
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+1
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How big are these tutorials for gods sake..... bearing in mind you can fit gta 4 and far cry 2 and crysis on one dvd
I guess they recorded 4 hours of the tutorials in 1080p at a massive bit rate and added true HD surround just be allowed to say - "Thank christ for blu-ray!"
Im sure the tutorials could be done for less, this is a Sony marketing dream, so they can put on the box "ONLY BLU-RAY CAN HANDLE THIS!!!!11!!"
Yet still, i remain completely underwhelmed by my PS3. Blu ray, standard hard drive and all
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/goes out and buys second hand Mega Drive
/.....reads other half of arcticle
/looks for bluray drive on Mega Drive
/fails
/cries
/bluwanks.
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I see people still don't understand the difference between a 2D game and a game with a 2D perspective...
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Maybe because they were asked?
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As one someone who has watched a lot of the vids and is seriously looking forward to this there is I think a valid case for suggesting there could be "shallowness" issues. Something I don't think will be full known until the game is released. On the other hand I've been amazed at some of the stuff I've seen and have faith in what will eventually be delivered. There is a danger - even if you accept it is only a small one - that it could ultimately disappoint.
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As to whether the game is possible on other platforms, well PS3 does have strengths the other two platforms don't. Granted they are unproven advantages, but then it's up to exclusives like this to prove their worth.
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I'm not so sure about that. While the creation side does allow for lots of surprizes - computation machine, trampoline and bucking bronco mini games, music sequencer - it's not a jack of all trades in terms of genres and what you can do. At it's heart the core mechanics are that it's a platformer - regardless of what people want it to be.
What I think is consistent about the majority of previews is how much fun it is to play. Regardless of the content it's fun to just mess about in with other people. Fun is a factor missing from a lot of games.
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If it floats your motor boat then more power to you.
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because each individual ps3 owner represents all ps3 owners amirite?
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I've never seen this as a Nintendo or Wii game. The style of the game screamed Sony of old at me from the first screen shot. Its the sort of stuff they have been sorely lacking in this gen - aside from PSN titles.
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I think you are talking about different things. Farticus is talking about possible as a game idea, Rash is talking about possible without changes (for better or worse). Both are correct.
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How do you know this, or are you basically just saying it for a reaction?
Seriously, unless you are qualified in the field of programming and/or work for MM then please share with us just exactly how you reached this conclusion.
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At the core in order to replicate LBP on the Wii you would need a decent physics engine. It doesn't have to be exactly the same in order successfully replicate the game. What LBP does is simulate stuff like gravity, friction etc. This is ably demonstrated in Boom Blox. I don't think Farticus is suggesting the exact physics models used in LBP could be done, but a decent enough cut down version to get the same effect should be possible.
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quote: "Most hyped games in history: Halo & LBP "
Yeah.. but at least from the hype I knew what halo was ... an overhyped fairly average - quite boring - shooter.
I still have no idea how LBP *plays* apart from that it has a boring looking level editor
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"We have invested billions of dollars, a processor rivaling that of super computers, uniquely designed to support the massive processing requirments of digital entertainment"
Kaz Hirai 2006
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Okay.. the first was cool as it was the first "proper" fps on a console.
Sequels dont interest me at all, because now there's too many fps's on consoles...
it's like going back a decade or so to the snes where every game was a 2d platformer..
"Likewise with LBP the intrigue about it keeps it from being boring..."
Which was my point.
Halo had shit loads of hype.. but at least you KNEW what the GAME was.
My prediction.. this is an average boring game with a nice level editor.
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What?
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I think he got confused with FlatOut
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I'm pretty sure LBP wins the prize for most! Completely fed up of the game before even playing it, gotta love PR.....
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I'm interested in playing this sometime, but...dare I mention the fact that the PC games have had user-created content, including user-generated gameplay elements, for well over a decade?
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@ yagisencho: so fucking what?
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its just a side scrolling platform... thingy. im not making levels for no one, thats not my job, and im definately not making my own levels cos that defeats the point of gaming.
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Guffaw.
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Quite the opposite, I can play both HD-DVD and Blu-ray films already and since HD-DVD's demise I have bought 70 films at Ł2.99-Ł3.99 each and the HD-DVD add-on for my 360 (Ł15) so I can play I good selection of my HD movie collection in another room too.
Also my 360, Wii and PC all seem to be doing fine with games on DVD.
Don't get me wrong the drive on the PS3 is a good value added feature if you want to play blu-ray, but it wasn't needed for games.
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2) Alex never said it was 40 GBs exactly, only that they're filling up a dual-layer BRD. He's uncertain of the capacity of a BRD layer, which is 25 GBs and not 20. We don't kow where the interviewer got the 40 GB figure from, and we don't know what state of build that figure is either.
3) (Amount of content) * (content complexity) is what takes up a lot of that space, and not amount of content on its own. A game could be huge and still require little space because the content is low quality and/or limited. There are thousands of unique resources in LBP. Other games can offer thousands of unique items, say in something like Oblivion, but as LBP is going to have to manage these objects up close and personal, filling substantial amounts of screen-space, they will likely need to be created in higher detail. A fork in Oblivion won't need to be modelled in as much detail as a fork for LBP. From that viewpoint alone, it's clear a DVD's worth of content created at twice the quality would require twice the capacity, exceeding a DVD. Higher quality assets (less compression) will also take up space. Then there are about 30 music tracks going by the manual, and some (nine, or maybe all, but I don't think so) come with individual instrument components for in-game editing, so that 3 minutes of song with 5 different component tracks could become 15 minutes of audio data with separate drum, guitar, keyboard etc. tracks. There is actually a lot of content here, which was Alex's point!
4) Alex Evans point on the game being possible on any platform, but being different : The original demo-pitch had a very simple 2D game, without any textures, and simple 2D physics. This was in essence the same game, and could be created on Wii or PS2, say. The same idea created on Megadrive with sprites and a vastly more limited selection of components would also be possible, and in essence - a platformer where you can also create stuff - would be the same. The implementation on PS3 is using PS3's resources to create someting unique to the platform. This includes a complex lighting model, 2.5D fluid dynamics for special effects, 3D model creation and destruction technology with on-the-fly mesh generation, and other lovely things that are very processor intensive. Clearly not all these technologies could be ported to all other platforms. A Wii version likely wouldn't have the explosives destroying terrain, for example. Alex didn't hazard a guess at what XB360 could achieve technically, despite the baiting question, as he clearly hasn't given it any thought. His point was that they targeted and developed for PS3, but had they have picked a different system, they would have created LBP, from scratch, based on that original simple concept game, and it would be different to some degree or other. LBP on Wii would perhaps be more LocoRoco in design, still be functionally similar, yet not be the same game.
5) Media Molecule isn't a Sony developer. They are independent. They left the XB360 exclusive Lionhead to shoot out on their own with no prior contracts. They created the prototype demo and pitched to Sony as their first choice publisher, and Sony got it and offered to take them up. I don't know why they went to Sony first - that'd be a great question for an interview, why they approached Sony first and not MS or Nintendo (my guess is Sony had the better reputation for supporting exclusives) - but that's the way it went. Now Sony are giving them excellent support and they're able to focus on PS3 without worrying about being multiplatform. They are free to create other games for other platforms if they want - they are not in any way Sony owned. The fact they are exclusive is more a testament to Sony's support and Media Molecule's principles as anything else. MM didn't want to do multiplatform with all its headaches, and Sony were happy to take them on on strength of a flimsy pitch and a cheap demo!
6) Yes, LBP is one of the most hyped games in all time! I'm extremely keen on the game, but even I'm rather sick of its frequent coverage in the gaming media with the same messages being regurgitated! However, it's better this way than being rolled out in nigh-silence and not getting the coverage it needs. Sony have fumbled other valuable titles before, and their overall marketing went completely down the pan from a couple of years back. At least they're back to being positive with their exclusives. For those following the gaming press, it's the same old thing, but each marketing push has the chance of reaching a fresh pair of ears and getting another interested party. Also don't forget the gaming press themselves are involved in seeking out interviews etc. Did Alex Evans contact GamesIndustry requesting yet more LBP coverage, or did GI.biz contact Media Molecule wanting an exclusive interview for a high-interest title...? And finally to MM's credit, the rollout of video clips are at least fun/interesting, like the Sackboy in the Wild trailer. The clips are often worth watching just for being entertaining regardless fo the fact they're pitching a game!
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I think this game looks, erm, cute. And that's pretty much it.
I'm too lazy and too stupid to be arsed with fannying around making different levels. I want my game made for me, and ready to go.
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hasn't the universe evolved the concept a bit since then? physics and co-op are alright i suppose, but neither of them necessarily equate to refreshing original gameplay. especially if you are playing with morons.
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30000 * 0 = 0...
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WHERE DO YOU SAVE THE UG CONTENT WITHOUT A HARDDRIVE!!!
You can't. And seeing as MS REQUIRE devs to not rely on a HDD, that means one SERIOUSLY crippled game.
Oh, and the fact that stuff can be sold for MONEY in LBP... MS wouldn't let you do THAT, either.
And the 40G of tutorial is all the building tutorial stuff, not a tutorial level. Learn to read, people...
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http://ww w.gametrailers.com/player/39778...
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One of the meanings of hype: promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its importance or benefits
In the case of LBP it's about informing the public as opposed to build up anticipation for a tested brand (most of the games in the above quotation aren't sequels by coincedence). Let's not forget LPB is a new IP that must convince gamers to spend their money on it while the sales statistics suggest they feel much more comfortable spending that same money on HD upgrades of old franchisses...
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@Farticus
"yet revealed so little about the actual game"
That I don't agree with. Look at what has been shown in vids. Think back to E3 2007 - what did they show? It wasn't pre-rendered footage, it wasn't mock ups. It was four people playing the damn game through an entire level. There is plenty of gameplay vids out there and in promo stuff they are putting out. If you don't like the game they show then that's fine, but there is more actual game stuff shown in these vids than any other game I can think of.
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A couple of examples - just on the play not create side ...
* It's a platformer - you jump, grab hold of stuff, swing, jump on enemies weak spots, flick switches, avoid hazzards and trigger events
* You collect bubbles for points and when playing with others it track who collects the most and they are the "winner" of each level
* Co-op can allow you to reach other areas in levels as indicated by signs in the levels
* There are other collectables like Sackboy outfits and items to use in your own levels. The game tracks how much of the collectables you have found in each level.
* There are levels where you need to use create to complete a level
* There are race sections with a start gate and finish line within levels which tracks fastest times on leaderboards and within groups of people playing a level co-op
* There are competitive mini-games in different environments like a trampoline, bucking bronco and tower levels.
* You get prizes for completing levels
* You can play up to 4 player co-op locally or online
That's just off the top of my head.
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11-Sep-08 11:46:34 Dont believe everything you read -- of course it will run on a 360, just as other games run on both consoles. duh.
I think if you took the time to 'read' the article that 'you don't believe' in, then you would realise that isn't the point.
duh.
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TCH!
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"this game is being touted as the best thing on the PS3."
Surely you don't think that is a difficult thing to achieve though?
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Not quite. Nintendo didn't turn it down, they just lost out ...
linky
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I think a lot of people don't understand what it is because they're expecting it to be more than it actually is. It's a platformer with a level creator...what you've seen in videos is apparently what it is. I'm sure there are still little surprises here and there for it to offer, but basically we've seen the game.
To the people who've gotten to play the game, have you had extensive time with it or just a few minutes? I wonder if you were given two hours as opposed to ten minutes if you wouldn't be looking for something else to do after a while. But that's just me and what I think of the game - but then again I'm not in the least bit interested in platformers. I only like boring FPS's and such...
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There are plenty of titles I think are complete pish - but I can accept that as a game they might actually be quite good because a lot of other people get enjoyment out of them. I'll just move on and play a game I want to play. As gamers we don't have to like everything which is good. Elements of games which make us want to poke our eyes out with pointy sticks can be happily ignored by others because of different factors.
So if you don't like the game how about not trying to piss on the chips of the people who do. People who would quite happily leap about and bounce on stuff all day. For whom working out the right set of jumps to reach the switch which gets them a funky doodad is just as satisfying as the winning headshot. Because for them it's fun.
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Even when I must agree, that there should be a Game or genre for everyone (We live in a free world), I can not understand, why some of us, who do not fall for all the hype too easy, should not express our opinion about it.
In my country we have a phenomenon in music, whic is called ˝ethnic˝ or folk music, which really isn't, because producers are using 3-4 phrases over and over again, supported by modern instruments.
It is a great success, even abroad-Germany for example, but it doesnt change the fact, that this music is fucking shit for retards, like It seems to me, this game will be.
Like said, its a platformer, in two dimensions (see, I know the difference between 2D and 3D), made with modern means, and even that, some say, will not run in 1080p.For me, analogy with above example is clear, even when some journalists, wishing to be special, to look educated, will give the game high notes.
But hey, It's just so in Art sometimes. A hammer with nails in the handle is for some of us just that, but for some of you modern art installation, called "Suicide".
Before any of you try to put me in some anti ps3 drawer, I must tell You, that I own just ps3, and a laptop which isnt good enough for gaming. I am wishing a XBOX 360 also, but being from a land which both Sony and MIcrosoft not only ignore, but they don't know that we exist (see my nick- so don't many turists which drive through our land on holidays to Croatia), that is not so easy and, from what I hear, wise. Namely, every RROD console at our place is not so easy repaired or replaced. I prefer ps3, solely for the fact, that it has a little better support in our country.
The amount of fanboys (which is just another word for irreparable retards) on this and similar sites explains all the hype and a possible succes of this game, because most of them will be buying and playing this game.
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Err, no... it's really not. I think you have misunderstood what Web 2.0 means (if it indeed means anything at all).
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"Like said, its a platformer, in two dimensions (see, I know the difference between 2D and 3D)"
I think that original point was actually more to do with the technicalities of a game presented in 2D and one presented in 3D - i.e. space for models, textures etc. LBP allows movement in the 3rd dimension - albeit in 3 distinct planes.