L4D community rallies against sequel Comments by Robert Purchese

It's not like Valve to do this kind of half-hearted, quick cash in sequel. To some extent I bought L4D despite it's lack of content, because this is Valve the one company you can really trust to keep supporting a game and not to replace it until they can truly offer something more. But it seems it's not Valve any more, they're turning into another EA, with quick cash in sequels one after another populated with draconian DRM and tossed aside at a moments notice. It's a shame but I'm not going to complain about "betrayal", just when they announce a new game they'll have to work damn hard to get my attention, just like everyone else does these days.

Most console gamers don't realise just how special Valve are to the PC community, and therefore don't realise why we hold Valve to a higher standard than other developers.

That argument would make sense if I hadn't bought the original Half-Life on the day it was released, and didn't own every Valve game except L4D on PC. Hell, I've played Half-Life 2 five times across three platforms. I understand how special Valve are, because they're my favourite developer. I still think the announcement of L4D2 as a full-priced game released a year after the original is awesome. In a way I am part of the PC community, just not a part you want to acknowledge when making inane arguments about why shit should be free.



Still doesn't disguise the fact that it's not packing much content at all. Regardless of how much fun you personally find it.

Oh my God, listen to yourself. You're telling me I should care more about the objective 'content' a game has over how much actual genuine fun I personally get out of that game?! In what world is this a rational way to think about the value you are getting from games?

I have had my money out of L4D bought it for £35 the day it came out and still rack up on average 15/20 hours on it a week, one vs. game can take up to 2 hours if not longer with the EG peeps!

5 new campaigns all that new vs. fun i cant wait! and if it costs me another £5 so be it.

Yossarian, a plea for rationality is like hunting for a needle in a haystack factory made of haystacks in the county Haystack.

Most PC gamers don't realise that Valve are a business and are here to make money

Straw man. Pretty much everybody on the planet reliases that any company has the aim of making money.

Assumptions people that want L4D2 are CONSOLE GAMERS who JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND/That argument would make sense if I hadn't bought the original Half-Life on the day it was released

It was a generalisation sure, but I'm willing to bet that most of the people calling out the"morons, whiners, cheap-asses" etc. are console gamers, and those on the petition are PC gamers. There is clearly a difference in opinion between the two groups as a whole, and I don't see why people get personally insulted when that is pointed out. Obviously this doesn't mean that every PC owner is disgusted with Valve's behaviour.

L4D may not have loads of content, with only 4 campaigns, but those 4 campaigns have had so much replayability that I've played it far more than other games that have way more levels.

It's all about quality over quantity. That's what Valve has always done so well.

"...and those on the petition are PC gamers."

You're willing to bet that the people petitioning on Steam are PC gamers? That's a real leap of faith there, buck.

You're willing to bet that the people petitioning on Steam are PC gamers? That's a real leap of faith there, buck.

I'm sure you knew the point I was making, but chose a patronising snide remark instead of addressing it.

Fits the theme of the thread at least I suppose - insults and dramatic tearing down of arguments that aren't being made in the first place.

L4D is a wonderful game. And now we can have another one! It doesn't get better than that!

I was worried that we'd have to wait another couple of years - thank God they've really pulled out all the stops. That's a good effort right there.

And, if anything, Valve has saved me lots of money. Rather than go out of an evening, I've opted to stay in with L4D.

Valve: Game developer and Personal Finance Assistant.

Is there anything they can't do?

I think I could agree that generally console gamers are far more willing to pony up for DLC, and are far less used to getting free content. But I also think PC gaming's sense of entitlement is ludicrous, and that's from someone who enjoyed the fruits of Epic's free content for UT growing up.

I also believe painting L4D2 as an 'add on pack' or 'expansion pack' or 'DLC' is ridiculous given the scope of the content they have announced (much of which has not yet been shown). And let's not forget Valve have charged for expansion packs in the past, albeit not at full price. If you don't recognise that L4D2 is worth more than e.g. Opposing Force, then I really don't know what to say to you.

Left 4 Dead 2 should just be a 360 exclusive. Leave the PC gamers with the original and thier mods/updates etc, and what not. Half of them will probably just get a pirate version anyway.

Valve? Making cynical cash grabs?


That's as unexpected as, oooh.... as everyone who signs a petition boycotting a sequel like this going out and buying it on day of release.

Probably rising to the bait, but when have Valve ever made a cynical cash grab? When, in their previous track record, have they ever made such a move? Why was this expected?

Silly billies.

Still doesn't disguise the fact that it's not packing much content at all. Regardless of how much fun you personally find it.

With respect, that's naff logic. Like complaining that Tetris has no content because there's only that one table to play on.

Ninja Tino, I have to agree.

These people boycotting an excellent game, even after valve has given so much to gamers and promised to still support the first, are retarded. That's not debatable, thats actual fact.

Fucking PC gamers are just cheap cunts.

and cynical cash grab?

This game has new sequels, weapons, monsters and a whole new setting. Isn't that, um, what sequels do? Add to the formula?

And fans of left 4 dead and the original crew are still getting updates, for that particular cast and setting.

Man, sometimes people can really be stupid. I'm ashamed that rob called these people the ''l4d community''. More like l4d village idiots

@Yossarian

On quite a few points there I agree with you. I would certainly agree that was has been proposed for L4D2 would be ridiculous as free new content. Even after the incredible support for TF2 that would have overly-generous.

But what about throwing us a bone here? One of those 5 new campaigns could have come to L4D1, with the rest going to the sequel? Or maybe bring one of those new weapons in?

Rightly or wrongly, many (PC) gamers bought the game on idea that there would be more content forthcoming - I genuinely thought it seemed a little light on content when I bought it for me (and two friends), but seeing as every Valve multiplayer game has had additional content released at a later date, and the head of the company said that would be also true this time around, I think it's a little unfair to be called an ungrateful, whining moron who probably pirated the game anyway just because I took that at face value.

This is why I say some people just don't get it, because if you have any experience of Valve's previous games and MO then you would have to admit there was some surprise when you heard that a sequel was coming instead of that content. Even if you don't agree with the point of view you should be able to see why some might take it the wrong way.

As to your last point, I suspect that despite being an expansion pack, there was more genuinely new content and plain hard work gone into Blue Shift than there is in L4D2. But of course I haven't seen the game yet and I suspect Valve still hacve a few things up their sleeve, so I couldn't really say yet ;)

@ skillian

"PC gamers just don't want Valve to "do an Epic" and become another console-centric developer churning out sequels for the Christmas market, and are hoping L4D isn't a sign of things to come.

Most console gamers don't realise just how special Valve are to the PC community, and therefore don't realise why we hold Valve to a higher standard than other developers. "

Well, maybe the thieving ghets that are quite a hefty percentage of PC gamers should accept a modicum of responsibility for all those games they pirate, forcing devs like Epic to look more towards console gamers as a means of ensuring monetary reward for their hard efforts.

Well, maybe the thieving ghets that are quite a hefty percentage of PC gamers should accept a modicum of responsibility for all those games they pirate, forcing devs like Epic to look more towards console gamers as a means of ensuring monetary reward for their hard efforts.

Perhaps they should.

That doesn't really make those that pay for their games feel any better though, nor does it make the move from respected and innovative developer to lowest common denominator middleware and shovelware peddler any more welcome.

It exasperates me that some sad fuckers are actually so irate about this that they are petitioning.
I mean, I'm broke but £40 is hardly the end of the frigging world is it?
I wish these cheese dicks would just shurrup and realise just how truly wonderful this is going to be.
I mean if Jesus reappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't give a crap compared to L4D2!

@ skillian

"Rightly or wrongly, many (PC) gamers bought the game on idea that there would be more content forthcoming"

And which part of Doug Lombardi's statement that " "It's definitely not the case that we're closing the book on L4D and saying, 'Next time you get anything is when the sequel comes out'" " cancels out that assumption by PC gamers?

Or maybe you and all the others are coveniently ignoring that assertion.

I just don't get why the announcement of a sequel seems to automatically mean to PC gamers that the original is being abandoned, especially when, as Yossarian so eloquently proved, L4D got content far quicker than TF2.

Nothing better to bitch and whine about, I guess...

and skillian- what the fuck is wrong with pc gamers? Valve has said there will still be new content for l4d, the whole point being that the sequel are NEW SCENARIOS AND SETTINGS DIFFERENT TO THE FIRST. So you still get to continue the adventures of Bill and co, as promised.

A lot of PC gamers are just cheap fuckwits who would rather kill their own parents than pay full price (or at all, period) for a game.

I bought fifa there a while back. It only has one 'level' and the game lasts for five minutes. What an outrage!

I'm still finding is funny how everyone is assuming this is all pc gamers - I'm sure those 360 users that just picked up the GOTY version for full price for a disk with a FREE update on would be pissed atm too.I find it also interesting how everyone compares L4D to TF2 when they aren't exactally the same game type, it's like comparing the Resi Evil Outbreak (which I feel is what L4D roots are from) to CoD4/5 online.

The TF2 updates don't really need big changes to improve the game, L4D2 does, and the comments of 'same engine' needs to be looked at as it clearly is a new engine Director 2.0 in't something that can be slapped on to the orginal, we are talking some serius AI here and all those variables etc can't be taken lightly - if they did just 'slap it on' for free most would be complaing how buggy it is.

The only issue I truly have with L4D2 was it was accounced too soon in L4D's lifecycle they could have at least accounced it on L4D's 1st birthday - instead they've shot themselfs in the foot as for the next chunck of months they wont get any new users to L4D as L4D2 would be deemed 'better' to buy.

What really would sort this out easily is players with L4D get 'unlocks' in L4D2 based on their progress in L4D that wouldn't be hard to do as they can just use the achevment system to do that... Everyone wins then.

of course it's mostly PC gamers- not all I should point out, just the vocal twats who are cheap cunts.

Console gamers- speaking as one, I love dlc, and i love stuff that adds to the campaigns, but the game was good enough and has so much replayability that I'm not too fussed even if nothing more came out. I'm still playing the game after I've mined it for achievements, and after months of release - all with such ''little content''. I'm not ungreatful, what valve has given us in l4d is quality, AAA gaming. If more comes, awesome- but if not, I'm still happy.

Not to mention, there's the little fact that valve has said there is more coming for the first l4d, yet pc gamers (who have hundreds of free mods and a level editor, lets not forget) seem to ignore this completely and act like valve have just thrown the first game in a vault and threw away the key.

This is the simple truth. If L4D was just a PC game there's no way a sequel would even be considered yet.

The argument that EA and Activision do yearly updates is completely missing the point. Valve is not EA, and while some of the criticism is clearly over the top, I believe this is the main reason why people are disappointed with Valve.

PC gamers just don't want Valve to "do an Epic" and become another console-centric developer churning out sequels for the Christmas market, and are hoping L4D isn't a sign of things to come.

Most console gamers don't realise just how special Valve are to the PC community, and therefore don't realise why we hold Valve to a higher standard than other developers.

Yes, they're so precious to you that you jump a bloody bandwagon slating them when they've given you so much for free. Have some trust in them ffs!

exactly saint

Yes, they're so precious to you that you jump a bloody bandwagon slating them when they've given you so much for free.

Quote me where I have slated them. I don't think you can.

I'm just saying that there is some middle ground and both sides have some valid arguments, but as usual such a position cannot be reasonably held on EG. Everything is black and white, and everyone is either a c**t or a hero.

No, only one side has valid arguments- the other is baseless, moronic complaints.

show me one complaint that can't be handled with logic.

Cash in sequel that could have been expansion?

Gamings a buisness- sequels make money, especially great games.

Sequels usually change setting and characters and add new stuff like weapons and monsters and settings- hence sequel.

No more dlc for left 4 dead?

Valve have said themselves it's still coming.

No argument against left 4 dead 2 holds up.

Quote me where I have slated them. I don't think you can.

I'm just saying that there is some middle ground and both sides have some valid arguments, but as usual such a position cannot be reasonably held on EG. Everything is black and white, and everyone is either a c**t or a hero.

Apologies for tarring you with the same brush! I've had two days of reading the Valve bashing by some and it got to me. But I do take you up on the Epic comment because they were churning out year-on-year sequels on the PC long before Gears of War came along (UT 2003 and 04 come to mind -but they too offer a load of content for nothing). That and I don't like you implying it's the fault of the consoles! If it were wouldn't we have Half Life Ep 3 by now? Or how about a full blown retail Portal 2?

And you give the people who are upset about L4D 2 too much credit. Have you read some of the things they're upset about? They're no different to the divs who complained about Diablo III being too colourful.

If Valve don't keep to their L4D promise (there's a YouTube of it knocking about) then I'll understand the rage, but some of the crap I've read makes me wish the people who complained about L4D 2 being so bright it didn't fit in with L4D do get shafted deep and hard.

@Yossarian

So you're saying that because you found 4 hours worth of game entertaining EVERYONE should find 4 hours worth of game entertaining?

By any standard L4D lacks content.

Single player is non-existent.

Multiplayer has 4 "scenarios", a limited weapon set, 4 player skins and 5 enemy types.

Big Whoop!

It's hardly anything in this day and age.

Do you play and enjoy L4D Gearskin? You're being a hypocite if you do. If you don't play it, then what does it matter? No one cares what you think constitutes 'content'.

Go on any left 4 dead server- there are always games on, always being played.

So regardless of what you think, a lot of people seem to be very happy with left 4 dead's content- the complainers just DON'T matter.

Don't have any issues with them releasing L4D2. At the end of the day we can choose to buy it or not. I am however bloody pissed off that we are still waiting for the updates to TF2 on the 360 that PC owners have had for ages. I appreciate the delivery system is different but even so it's been a bloody long wait for nothing....

@GreyScale

I have it on PC, via STEAM.
I haven't sunk that many hours into it, if I'm honest. Not the main game anyway. I tired VERY quickly of repeating the campaigns. I've actually spent more time with the content produced by fans. Some of it is very good.

I especially like the solo mod, where you play it alone against zombies that have been slowed down a bit.

regardless, no one cares what you think any way .

don't like it? don't buy the sequel. Problem solved.

I for one can't wait because L4D just got BORING for me.

It's the same old crap. Every time. With not enough variation to keep my interest.


I'm just gonna assume the existing game was a beta, and this, if it lives up to the promises, is the full game.

@CountFapula

Brilliant logic. I guess people who aren't directly affected by the topic aren't allowed an opinion then? Is this just on videogames, or everything in life?

why do you even care, was the point?

If you don't like the game, you won't like the sequel. Why is that worth you commenting on?

At the very least, the people complaining (even if they are wrong and being retarded) liked the first game.

I liked the first game and bought it, specifically on PC, because I expected it would get further support from Valve. I think I might have actually paid MORE when buying it through Steam to get it on release.

I care because I put money down.

Aren't you the same twonk who sounded off against Bioshock 2 multiplayer and Infamous recently?
Ignored.

lol thats right, ignore someone when you can't win the debate, fucktard

and for someone who ''liked'' the game, you sure do complain and bitch a lot- I'd hate to hear your opinion on a game you hated lol.

@ Gearskin

"because I expected it would get further support from Valve"

You fail at basic reading and comprehension. Doug Lombardi was quoted on this very site promising that the announcement of L4D2 did NOT consitute an abandonment of L4D1 in terms of new content.

Disgraceful, pathetic, pointless and embarrassing. Valve should just pull the PC version, teach them all a lesson. But they've too much respect for their consumer (more than most other developers - and this is coming from a PS3 owner!) to do something like that.

People just don't like change, even when they don't actually know anything about the change and fail to consider whether or not it might just be a hell of a lot better. Which it will, because Valve rarely let us down.

I'm so glad to see a lot of people here (aside from gearkin, and a few other morons) are being intelligent about the situation.

How can these retards still say they are abandoning l4d, when there was a big story here about how that WON'T be happening?

I really do get angry at how stupid, imbecillic and non logical people can be sometimes.

@bioreit

With the sequel due inside of 6 months, we won't be seeing anything substantial added to the original. They'll get some tools out to the Mod community and leave the support to them.

@psychokitten: Do not assume that ONLY console gamers want L4D2. I play L4D on the PC and I love it. I also want L4D2. The point I was trying to make was that the reason why L4D2 turns up so soon is more likely because of consoles rather than PCs. Thus it feels more like a cash-in on the console crowd rather than the PC crowd. And I think it is funny to see all these comments about pirating (comments who I can only assume are from console owners). We all know that if you could download pirated stuff through consoles people would do exactly that. And the assumption that most of the petitioners are pirates? Seriously? And that pirates affect the sales of Valve's software?
Just recently there was a good talk about digital downloads, through things like Steam. If released only on that kind of a platform you can cut alot of costs with packaging, shipping, etc. And I have no doubt, at all, that Valve has gotten their monies worth of L4D ten times over.

As for L4D2, I'm just hoping for a map where you'll have to wade through water (New Orleans maybe? (watch the movie Hard Rain and imagine it full of infected)) - and I almost wish for a tower where I could just sit for hours and hours sniping down infected. Call it 'Clear the town of infected' game mode. And I just wish Valve would bring us locations from around the world. Like Paris, Venice or somewhere in the Middle-East. With known landmarks. Battle the infected whilst trying to get to the top of one of the pyramids in Giza!

I think most people in the middle east would be too busy killing each other than dealing with the zombie plague.

Do not assume that ONLY console gamers want L4D2. I play L4D on the PC and I love it.

Please read my comment again, I never implied that at all. I'm a console gamer AND a PC gamer, I bought the first game on both platforms because I had different friends playing on either.

It's OTHER people in this comment thread that seem to assume everyone in favour of L4D2 is a console gamer, you should direct your post at them, rather than me. I'm just tired of the attitude people have towards others because of platform (whether it's console warzzzz or PC fanboys slagging console users).

L4D2 looks like absolutely amazing bloody fun, I don't know how fans of the original can read the previews and watch the trailer and the only thing that concerns them is the fact that it isn't going to be free for them. Unbelievable.

@ Gearskin

It's a game designed for replayability. If you look at the basics of what's there, then yeah there isn't oodles of content like say Halo, but it's not about that.

Left 4 Dead was all about trying out a totally new concept, the AI director, and making a good gameplay experience that could be replayed over and over again, and it has done that.

What's the point of having 20 different weapons that are all vaguely the same? What's the point of having 10 different enemies that are all just the same as previous ones with more health?

It's all about quality over quantity, and L4D delivers quality by the bucketload.