L4D community rallies against sequel Comments by Robert Purchese

So embarrassing. What is it with these people? PC gamers are the worst.

I missed out on the first but I will probably pick this up.

That's 15,000 less fucking idiots to listen to online then.

L4D2 just became even more appealing \o/

Fuck em. They are all going to buy it anyway. Fucking nerds, they really annoy me.

You're right, its embarrassing, little boys and girls having a tantrum because they have to pay for a sequel.
Get a grip. Get a job. Get some self respect.

PC Gamers "We want free stuff!!"

Valve "Well, weve made this but its actually more content than the first game....so were gonna charge for it"

PC Gamers "Screw you valve, you never really loved us. Your just trying to rape more money out of us!"

Valve "More money? You just want the moon on a fucking stick dont you, you jerks....your like the people who take more than one free sample of a product and complain when its shit!"

PC Gamers ".....your point is?"

Wow! This seems excessively harsh, I mean Valve have been incredibly good to their fans in the past and this is how the fans are repaying them. Even if L4D2 was a cheap cash-in, which it most likely won't t be, I think Valve have have done more than enough over the years to let it slide anyway.

"which it most likely won't t be, I think Valve have have done more than enough over the years to let it slide anyway"

QFT

Once again the Internet is full off whining emo gamers. Why am I not surprised?

I feel sorry for Valve - they've got one of the best track records in the business and usually take their time to release their products, making sure they're top quality. They've come up with a sequel to a great game yet 15,000 people are having a go, yet Activision and EA do this every year without fail on the majority of their IPs and noone bats an eyelid!

What's strange is that the price will still £15 to £20 cheaper than the Xbox version on release.

I play on 360 and don't feel as though I'm being ripped off. I'm looking forward to the sequel and am excited rather than pissed off.

These wingers really need to get a life. Valve owe them nothing but do owe their own families a living.

Any internet based protest should be ignored. Clicking a button doesn't really count as making a stand.
Just look at facebook to see how many thousands of people "join" a "protest" about new flavours of crisps etc...

@Dizzy

"QFT" ???

The differences between LFD1 and LFD2 seem no less significant than the differences between CoD4: MW and MW2 but no-ones complaining about that sequel.

Unfortunately, Valve have gone above and beyond with free content for their fanbase and a portion of that fanbase has gotten used to it and are now just throwing their toys out of the pram. I had to pinch myself everytime we booted up Counterstrike at Uni, I couldn't believe we were technically playing it for free.

Get a grip. Get a job. Get some self respect.

The sad thing is they probably already mostly have well paid jobs, their Comic book guy-style nerdrage and moral indignation just overrides any and all rational sentiments including 'don't be such a frigging geek'. Probably the same people that moan and whinge on the Blizzard forums every time there is a WoW patch and threaten to boycott because their rogue has been nerfed by 0.000001%, only to carry on playing 18 hours a day as usual.

If only these people put their energies into protesting against things that really mattered like human rights abuses or fighting racism or something instead of whining and crying on the internet about a poxy thirty quid video game, maybe this world would be a different looking place.

Utter, utter arseholes.

@Colin8703:

That's not unique to Left 4 Dead. Nearly every Xbox and PS3 game launches for more than they do on PC. Licensing costs for console releases last I checked made the difference.

As for Left 4 Dead 2, I can't say I mind paying for a full game's worth of content if that's what I'm getting. I'd have no complaints if it were free, but I'm quite happy to pay for my entertainment, especially when they do a really good job with it.

I do find some of the points the boycott initiators make flawed, but the comment section here is surprisingly brewing with even more ignorance. That's odd, Eurogamer's community is usually far more sophisticated than that.

Valve "Well, weve made this but its actually more content than the first game....so were gonna charge for it"

They've started working on Left 4 Dead 2 one month after Left 4 Dead 1. They had the chance to split up the content and distribute it as additional content.

Even if L4D2 was a cheap cash-in, which it most likely won't t be, I think Valve have have done more than enough over the years to let it slide anyway.

So, your argument is, while EA is being mocked and belittled for cashing in on various franchises, when a respectable company does it, it's fine? That's rather illogical.

While the Internet is split into two camps, both sharing a large number of morons, I am actually curious to see how it will all turn out; what will Left 4 Dead 2 will become, and how successful will it be, regardless of this boycott.

Truly fucking pathetic.

To be fair, Valve did say when it came out that they would add content for L4Din the form of new chapters, characters and enemies (which could still come out at some point I guess, but the sequel puts a damper on that it seems)

They forgot to say that it would be a sequel rather than TF2 style content though (speaking of which, I will love Valve forever for their TF2 support)

wow! what a bunch of cocks!!

Shock horror you have to pay for new games so that they can pay the people that make the games so that they make more games.

games!

Those steam forums are full of almost as much shit as the GameFAQs forums now.

I've tried in the past bringing up the arguement of the EA IPs or CoD4/5 but no-one there listens. They're probably the same mentally retarded fuckbags who charge head on into a Tank, set themselves on fire with a molotov then get punted off the building.

Screw em. I'm gonna pay for L4D2 and enjoy it. Valve deserve it.

75% of them probably pirated it to begin with anyway.

Whiny fucking PC owners. "We want to pirate your games and play them for nothing and then moan when we don't get extra free content on top of that." Lives: get some.

Valve should launch a new game just on console and see what their mewling girlie response is then.

It's like fucking Starcraft 2: "Ew, a new lighting system We don't like change. Bwah!" Cunts.

@ChthonicEcho
My point was that other Devs/Publishers churn out identikit sequels and yearly franchises like there's no tomoroow and they don't get this strong a reaction. Valve have a good reputation which I don't see them starting to throw away, so wouldn't it be better to wait till L4D2 is released and actually see how much new content it contains before going mental on the internet and boycotting things?

As I've said in other threads on the forum, I think part of the reason (not the whole reason) for this being a sequel and not free or payed for DLC comes down to the popularity of the Xbox 360 version of L4D. Some console owners still aren't connected to LIVE and aren't as savvy about DLC as PC owners, but primarily providing free DLC through Xbox LIVE is a giant pain in the ass for Valve. Going the retail option to bring the L4D2 content to console players is the easier option. For example where's the free updated ontent for the Xbox version of TF2... nowhere to be seen, I wonder why.

i think the point was that L4D was shipped with the idea that there would be loads of content updates, ala TF2, but instead there is this sequel barely a year after the game shipped.

the main arguement was that this was 'promised' by gabe newell the messiah himself, but then he also made a lot of other promises like regular HL2 episodes and such.

theres loads about this on the rps forums...but it still makes me ashamed to call my self a PC gamer when one of the major and most creative development teams is slammed for trying to make great games.

Yeah, I know, I guess console owners are used to shelling out for a "sequel" every 12 months.

I have no problem with buying it, so goodbye annoying players!

And anyway, if Valve don't think it's good enough to release, they won't release it.

15,000 (who we all know will buy it in the end) against hundreds of thousands of people who are quite happy

Jesus. They need to get a grip. If you don't want to buy it, DON'T BUY IT. And I'm pretty sure no-one can say that L4D wasn't worth the money unless there's extra content, the game is amazing fun?!

Gah. Some people.

It's like fucking Starcraft 2: "Ew, a new lighting system We don't like change. Bwah!" Cunts.

OMG. We shall boycott Diablo 3 becuz the gfx aren't as dark and serious as they should be. GG Blizz, money-grabbing fan-forgetting traitors, FOAD!

/goes and buys D3 on release day after queuing outside shop for a week

If anyone from Valve is reading this. Please aknowledge that there are gamers who appreciate you and your work ethics, we recognise the good deads you have done in the past with free DLC, the allowance of user generated interfaces for your exisiting product and your unique effort that goes into your products.
Do not give those people what they want, please.

Screw that, if they called it a Mission Pack I'd have bought it, stick 2 on the end and it makes no difference to me, I want it so badly! I can understand the objections I suppose, but I don't share the concerns.

I don't see what the fuss is about, its just more of a shock as its coming from Valve who normally are, if anything, slow on releasing content and sequels.

The fact is that they have said they're looking into how to make L4D2 a platform and as such if gamers are interested in importing L4D1 content into it.

In addition, if Valve say its too much stuff to add as DLC I trust them. They said the same to HL1:EP1 and EP2 and guess what.....you'll have to pay for EP3 too!!! (eventually!)This stuff costs money to develop, Valve are a business, they're raison d etre is to make money....and games. If they feel they could market a sequel this early on then fair play.

I for one will definately be buying it...getting me some FRYING PAN ZOMBIE KILLING ACTION (sorry over excitable there).

Wow! A lot of sad commenters here today.

First off. The original L4D has only four scenarios. Valve promised to add new ones and new content such as weapon upgrades and a better story arc etc. etc.

Instead they took that time to update the game and sell it as a sequel. The problem is that it isn't a sequel in any way shape or form. It's the same gameplay, the same enemies (all be it with three new skins in the form of the hazard suit, the half tank and whatever the last one was!). The new weapons don't feel any different from the old ones. You get the same (with different skins again) sub-machine gun, automatic rifle, sniper and pistols. You now also get a melee weapon too, though you could always use the guns as melee weapons anyway so why trade range for a different zombie death animation?

The long and short of it is that there is nothing in L4D2 that wasn't requested as a fix or update for L4D1 by the community some of you are bashing. Their ideas have been taken, in some cases wholesale, by Valve and used to try to sell them a full priced update. This coupled with the fact that if Valve had released the SDK. Then 90% of what Valve is offering in L4D2 would have already been added by the community anyway, is seen as a huge middle finger to their loyale fans.

A few new levels and new enemies is an add on pack, pure and simple. It in no was constitutes a whole new game!

penhalion - QFT!

How long was TF2 delayed? HL2? The original HL?

YEARS!

And now Valve are able to develope, test and release a sequel within 12 months? Shows how much effort is really going in, no?

Not a lot!

My point was that other Devs/Publishers churn out identikit sequels and yearly franchises like there's no tomoroow and they don't get this strong a reaction. Valve have a good reputation which I don't see them starting to throw away, so wouldn't it be better to wait till L4D2 is released and actually see how much new content it contains before going mental on the internet and boycotting things?

They've already harmed their reputation by announcing Left 4 Dead 2. The question is, are they going to redeem themselves by making Left 4 Dead 2 great game, and possibly offering some sort of compromise to Left 4 Dead owners? I know a lot of people here have Life (TM), and Job (TM), and they can throw away money at every game that strikes their fancy. But some people bought the game because they thought it'd have longevity. Primarily because Valve said it would be. It took them only two months to break their promise.

And why the surprise considering this reaction? EA is a whore, even though they've been trying to change that for the past months, so few react to it brashly because it's common. When a respectable company does it, there are two types of reactions: people finding it okay, because it's a respectable company and they can trust them, and people being completely outraged that the company they trusted in made the wrong turn.

Another reason why everyone's so worked about it is that every single idea in Left 4 Dead 2 - every single one, I kid you not - is taken from the community. Now, doing fanservice by including one gameplay element or two they've begged for is quite fine and admirable, but to build a game on community's ideas? Also, Left 4 Dead 2 will have multiple pathways, even if they were excluded from Left 4 Dead 1 because they do not make a Left 4 Dead game. Ironic, huh?

The team that worked on L4D is independent of the team that works/worked on Half-Life 2 and its episodes, bar a little crossover in e.g. the writers. Strange to see Valve villified for taking too little time to release a project. I suppose they can't win with you geniuses.

penhalion, I suggest you do some informed reading on the full feature list for L4D2, and consider what sort of work and expense goes into making an 'add on pack' that is bigger and richer than the original game. Otherwise you look like just another gibbering moron.

"The new weapons don't feel any different from the old ones."

You've played it then? AMAZING! OK, you're the only one allowed to moan. Oh no, wait, you haven't played it at all, you're basing your unfounded whinges on something that NOBODY had played yet, and is not actually going to be released for months. Now I remember.

I wonder if there'd be this kind of outrage if they waited 5 years and announced the same game but obviously with better graphics.

penhalion
"The problem is that it isn't a sequel in any way shape or form. It's the same gameplay, the same enemies (all be it with three new skins in the form of the hazard suit, the half tank and whatever the last one was!). The new weapons don't feel any different from the old ones. You get the same (with different skins again) sub-machine gun, automatic rifle, sniper and pistols. You now also get a melee weapon too, though you could always use the guns as melee weapons anyway so why trade range for a different zombie death animation?

I thought you were describing CoD there for a moment. What you said can be applied to hundreds of FPS' and their sequels, Halo is another example that fits what you said perfectly.

Left 4 Dead 2 does not have 'multiple pathways'; it has variable but still singular and linear pathways. Even if it did have multiple pathways, that would not be 'ironic', I'm afraid.

As for complaining about Valve taking cues from the community... would it better appeal to your principles if Valve ignored the community and purposefully didn't implement good ideas the community has 'begged' for? Is that really your position? Is that what you want to say here? Think it through.

If you took some time and care over your posts this sort of silliness could be avoided.

Exactly. Frankly that's bullshit penhalion. I'd like to see the community implement new characters, enemies and weapons. The new maps are going to be designed by professionals. They will most probably be excellent. There is so much wrong with your post it's painful to read.

Its fucking £30 guys.....i can spend more than that on a takeaway on sunday....

Are some of you really that cheap?

I would absolutely LOVE IT if Valve came out and said 'ok we will listen to the boycotters, we will release this content as DLC'

....and then priced it the same as a full price sequel

Fun fact: the very first apartment building in the first chapter of No Mercy contains more brushes (blocks making up the structure of it) than an entire Team Fortress 2 level.

But five campaigns (25 chapters) with extensive new art assets (models, textures) should be free!

@daz_john_smith

QFT = Quoted for Truth.... that means I agree with you ;)

Trivia question: how many months did it take for the first free content update to arrive for Team Fortress 2?

A: Six months.

Bonus trivia question: how many months did it take for the first free content update to arrive for Left 4 Dead?

A: Five months.

Its always meant 'Quite Fucking True' in my head....

I used to think QFT meant Quit Flipping Talking, or similar. I was wrong, obviously.

I liked that fact Yoss, that's the kind of thing I like to know. I'll regail everyone I play No Mercy with of that fact :)

I can see where the boycotters are coming from but their reaction is blown out of proportion. There does sound like there's enough stuff in L4D2 to warrant a full game release, but people are never happy when something was promised to them and then not delivered. I grumbled a bit when I heard about the price tag. I'm not going to boycott the game, but I won't pretend I didn't feel a little put off. That said, Valve have got a full game's worth of content there, as much as most sequels to other series do. I'd *like* it if there was a discount for those who already own L4D, but I don't expect it or feel that I should *demand* one. I'm not one of the people who think that Valve can do and have done no wrong, though.

@Dizzy
10 years online and I still don't know half the abbreviations. I only learned what IIRC was yesterday :P

@ penhalion

Oh please, mystic sir, please tell me how dost thou gaze into yon future so bright and clear?

Serioussly dude, you've completely written off Valve making more L4D1 content merely because they've announced the sequel.

You've also oh-so-conveniently ignored two major points in your rant (although, to do so would have exposed the flaws in your argument, to be fair):

1. Valve have come out and said that the announcement of L4D2 != no more content for L4D1. In fact, they have stipulated that they most definitely have NOT abandoned the first game.

2. L4D2 has more in it that new weapons and campaigns - the AI Director's control of the scenery, for example.

Well done you - you've played a pre-release of a game still almost 6 months away. It's not even finished yet you're already writing it off like it's a full-blown retail release.

Muppet. (would have used stronger words, but the Internet filter at work would pick them out)

Oh and Yossarian - nice one dude! Well played on showing up the whiners with one nice little factoid :-)