Kim: Natal is a relaunch of Xbox 360

By Robert Purchese Published 17 June, 2009

"It's not a new hardware architecture."

Microsoft bigwig Shane Kim has stated that the release of Project Natal will be "the launch of Xbox 360", and that no new console hardware will be involved.

"Absolutely. It will be that big," he told Gamasutra. "Now, the good news is that it's not a new hardware architecture; we're not forcing customers to have to go buy a new console because it will work with every existing Xbox 360 out there.

"But in terms of its importance and scale of what we're talking about, yeah, absolutely, it will be like the launch of a new Xbox."

Kim, who was omnipresent at E3, said similar things all show, citing an Xbox 360 lifecycle through to 2015, and explaining that the motion-sensing technology (that has its own processing power) is as good as a new console anyway.

And not only will Natal be "revolutionary", but Kim believes it will transcend comparisons with Nintendo and Sony, as the real goal is "unlocking the potential of the industry": reaching the millions upon millions of people with no console at all.

His comments discredit - but do not disprove - speculation that Microsoft plans to launch a new Xbox 360 console next year. Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg played down rumours of a new machine, too - as did Eurogamer's Digital Foundry blog with technical panache.

Project Natal has no release date as yet.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (57) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • mingster #1 3 years ago

    first post Natal comment

  • Harlequeen #2 3 years ago

    Hmm, a subscription based model?

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #3 3 years ago

    I still think it'll launch as a stand-alone product alongside a bundle featuring a slimline 360 (with the same tech), sold at a big loss (eg. £150) to tempt the casuals. Natal cam will cost £70-ish on its own.

  • Toothball #4 3 years ago

    That's a good point actually. If they want to get the non-gamers on board, it'll have to be less than £200 for an Xbox with Natal. Otherwise it'll be dead before it start if the general public don't pick up on it.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 11:33

  • BBIAJ #5 3 years ago

    @ Britesparc:

    Do you work at M$ to come up with that figure, or did you just pull it out of your arse, along with the rest of your post?

    There are enough "industry analysts" as it is, without you joining the fray!

  • Aretak #6 3 years ago

    There are also enough tediously aggressive children posting on internet forums.

  • Milk #7 3 years ago

    So Natal is a Wii that you can plug into the 360? Or perhaps use on it's own? Interesting.

    I thought it was just going to be a fancy webcam.

  • BBIAJ #8 3 years ago

    I blame the Haribo Chamallows...

  • Doctor_What #9 3 years ago

    I hope Burt Kwok does the voiceover on the Natal games.

  • youhavenomail #10 3 years ago

    Well, anything that means they can spend the next six years working on the next gen Xbox rather than rush out something that RRODs days/weeks after purchasing it has to be a good thing. Who knows, Kim could be right and Natal really will be the launch of the era when 360s work properly and people other than current owners of dead 360 consoles start buying one. Best make that two, actually.

  • hiruu #11 3 years ago

    We KNOW M$ is working on a slim model of the 360...they have successfully complete work on the 45nm chipset, so why would htey NOT launch a newer console model around this newer integrated chipset? I think Kim and Greenberg were both splitting words in trying to stress that no new console would be launched, but this wouldn't be a new console, just an improved console...just like they launched an improved 360 with the 65 nm chipset. They will offer more memory and more HDD as well...and it's not that different than the 160GB PS3, for example. The question is are they going to put an SD slot to serve as an alternate for DVDs.

  • Sunyavadin #12 3 years ago

    What really annoys me is that this is the single most likely thing to cause the Dreamcasting of the XBox.

  • WillTheSecond #13 3 years ago

    If they make a cheap slimline 360 and launch it with Natal for something like £150 I'll be very tempted. For the time being I'm happy with my Wii and PC.

  • XdarXideX #14 3 years ago

    I hope they don't turn this into the Wii.

    Make some VR style goggles to go with the 3D camera and I'll be a little interested. How weird would it be to see your in-game arm and feel it as your own?

  • kestral #15 3 years ago

    doesnt say anything this they can spin it any way imho.

  • dadrester #16 3 years ago

    going for a high price point then :)

    if they're treating it like a new launch does that mean the old stuff will be completely dumped like with the original xbox? no more pad based games from internal studios?

  • Les #17 3 years ago

    "I seem to recall them ridiculing what the Wii was doing as well. (Once they realised how well it was selling).

    It's somewhat ironic they have come across a more ridiculous way of playing games than the worst of wii minigames."

    And what's even more funny is that their fanbase has made the same switch...

  • miiiguel #18 3 years ago

    It's ironic..., lol, who usually spawns at Natal's comments section. Natal is the new Halo.

  • BillyBrush #19 3 years ago

    That statement's only true in your head Les

  • zedzee #20 3 years ago

    They STILL haven't answered the question:

    "we're not forcing customers to have to go buy a new console because it will work with every existing Xbox 360 out there."

    Does not mean that if you don't have an X360, you will not be able to buy a new X360 specifically designed with Natal integrated; perhaps even a cheap model to compete with Nintendo. Even restricted, dare I say, to Natal-only type games.

    "reaching the millions upon millions of people with no console at all."

    How are they going to reach them without either a bundled Natal cheap SKU or a modified X360 console that plays Natal-only games?

    A new X360 - either more powerful or for playing Natal-only games - is still feasible.

    None of Microsoft's statements so far have denied it.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 12:32

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #21 3 years ago

    @ BBIAJ

    Figure pulled out of my arse.

    It's speculation, FFS! What, we're not allowed to come on a comments thread and guess the price of Natal? Jeezie Creezie.

  • ronuds #22 3 years ago

    @ zedzee

    I don't know if that's such a concern. Natal is supposed to have its own processor, so I don't see why they'd have to make a specially built 360 for Natal only.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #23 3 years ago

    I like the idea of playing football games with this tech, not so keen on the expected price, can't see it being cheap at all.

  • Evolution #24 3 years ago

    It's such a big thing apparently, but they aren't forcing people to get it. So basically they are going to pour time/money/effort into splitting their user base up into the Natals and Non-Natals?

  • StooMonster #25 3 years ago

    @ Britesparc: completely agree, except with the £150 price for bundle.

    Makes sense to have new slimmer model of Xbox 360 with 45nm chipset, the only change in configuration will be a larger HD for the download services. Like Apple, Microsoft do not care about optical media and have no interest in supporting Blu-ray and it would split user-base anyway supporting Blu-ray, and for what benefit? Similarly, same product made for cheaper price makes for larger margins, there is no benefit to Microsoft's margins for changing configuration such as memory.

    Natal bundled with Xbox slim for under £200 sound likely to me; expect huge PR blitz in Q3-Q4 2010 and Xmas advertising omnipresence. Not sure I can see too many existing Xbox owners buying Natal though, not unless there is some (as yet) unannounced killer app to go with it.

    EDIT: Weird, my message got cropped.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 13:34

  • Darren #26 3 years ago

    I think Natal is interesting and even if I own use it for navigating the dashboard and Marketplace, it'll be cool to have and reminescent of the kind of stuff depicted in Minority Report. Whether I'll make full use of it remains to be seen, it really depends on the type and quality of the games that use it, which was exactly the same on the Wii (in that platform's case it was a failure IMO!).

    I still think Microsoft should have saved this technology for the next generation Xbox because I don't believe that it'll reach its full potential as an add-on when it'll be released over three years after the Xbox 360's launched. Not all developers are going to support it and not everyone will be willing to buy the camera that's needed to use Natal in the first place. At best Natal could become the Xbox 360's EyeToy in terms of popularity and support and at worst it could become the Xbox 360's EyeToy, i.e. a fad that is popular for a year or so and then falls by the wayside. It's clearly aimed at grabbing the casual gamers so many of the current hardcore owners are not going to be that interested in it I'd imagine.

    I wish Microsoft luck with it but I really don't think it will do anything to attract casual gamers to the Xbox 360 in the long run, I believe it's coming too late for that. I guess Microsoft can use 360 Natal as a test run for their next console though (which can feature it as standard) so they can iron out the kinks and determine what kind of games people want to play with it, kind of like an extended beta program.

  • Les #27 3 years ago

    "So basically they are going to pour time/money/effort into splitting their user base up into the Natals and Non-Natals?"

    Wouldn't necessarily be a bad strategy. The non-Natals would be the current base of hardcore gamers and the Natals could be people that currently prefer the Wii. It makes it likely that there will be an SKU with Natal included by default and probably with a new name to distinguish it from the Natal-less SKUs.

    But if this is in fact their strategy, most Natal-games will probably end up being Wii-ports: Casual games with waggle controls. Because with the hardcore already owning the 360 but not the Natal, the installed base that will take advantage of advanced Natal features will be small. Especially given that most hardcore 360 games are released on the Natal-less PS3 and PC as well (though the latter might eventually get a Natal). So if Natal can actually do what MS says it will be able to do, it's questionable whether the mass market games will actually take advantage of it (comparable to the fact that most 3rd party titles don't really utilize Blu-Ray or the HDD other than to circumvent PS3 architecture bottlenecks).

  • Darren #28 3 years ago

    As for the price of the add-on, well I think anything more than £40 max. is going to put a lot of people off. After all it will likely be seen as little more than a webcam regardless of what the technology is inside it. Knowing Microsoft though and their overpriced peripherals it will probably cost £60+ but we'll see. If Microsoft want it to be a huge success then they're going to have to price it attractively and that means as cheap as possible, even if they have to make a loss on the hardware itself.

  • doragor #29 3 years ago

    *adds BBIAJ to dipshit list*

  • Olemak #30 3 years ago

    I too agree that the Xbox 360 most likely will be ready for launch in about 6 months.Obviously, it was far from ready for launch back when it was first released years ago. I'd probably get one when the revised hardware is available, but not because of Natal.

    My only question: Will the Natal version be as loud as the current Elites, or will it be silent like a wii? Will a "Natal 360" ever go RROD?

    I think silent running and extremely high reliability (and a friendly, simple interface) is required for mainstream success. I think even my PS3 is too noisy for a living room environment.

  • Darren #31 3 years ago

    @Olemak - "I think even my PS3 is too noisy for a living room environment."

    It always surprises me to read this kind of thing. I know PS3s do vary in their level of noise but my own launch PS3 has been whisper quiet in the 27 months I've owned it. Granted I am slightly deaf and wear a hearing-aid but that doesn't stop me hearing the ghastly racket my Xbox 360 and PC put out when they're running!!!

  • Bander #32 3 years ago

    designerheadache:

    "taking one established thing and randomly turning it in to another thing, then convincing the consumer that it is in fact now something new NEVER works."

    Gamecube->Wii and three versions each of the GBA and DS would disagree.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 14:38

  • Skurmedel #33 3 years ago

    Somebody needs to take his uppers away, it's not like a new console launch. It's not even close. It's the launch of a potentially cool gizmo. A new console is huge, this is maybe "medium".

  • woodnotes #34 3 years ago

    If MS wants to get a huge install base, they should move to a mobile-style subscription plan for Xbox Live, where you essentially pay monthly for Xbox Live on a fixed-term contract and get a free Xbox 360 in return. Why haven't they done this yet? Seems obvious.

  • Beige_Alert #35 3 years ago

    My guess, natal + xbox360 300-400 USD. From these comments I'm thinking the might actually choose to sell all new xbox:es with natals. That's probably the only way of getting a large enough userbase to make game development worthwhile.

  • mkreku #36 3 years ago

    The "genius" behind the Wii motion controls is that there's no option. If you buy a Wii, you get the crappy controls, no matter if you want it or not. And all developers have to adjust to that too.

    Having crappy controls as an expensive peripheral just will not have the same breakthrough effect.

  • drumbaby #37 3 years ago

    After Xbox 360 Natal, expect the SKU version that DOESN'T break everytime you look at it (just most of the time), followed by one that has bigger HDD for all those 'funny' vids you'll be recording on your souped up Eye Toy Play.

  • El-Dev #38 3 years ago

    After all the good stuff at E3 both Sony and MS want to hype up their shit add ons. Concentrate on the games you idiots, it why we buy the consoles.

  • Feanor #39 3 years ago

    It could still be like the DSi which has better hardware than the DS.

  • Vin #40 3 years ago

    It's NOT a relaunch of the 360. Natal's arrival will be akin to the release of the 360.

    Hype and all.

  • Evolution #41 3 years ago

    @mkreku

    The majority of games I've played on the Wii don't have crappy controls.

  • makeamazing #42 3 years ago

    MS are still riding the Natal PR train... wonder how long this is going to go on for...

  • zedzee #43 3 years ago

    @ ronuds:

    They'd do it to keep the cost down and try to compete with Nintendo.

    Besides, from what I hear on the Web, the X360 design could do with a revamp to prevent those RRoD problems that so many people seem to encounter. My friend is on his third box!

  • smelly #44 3 years ago

    This is the same microsoft that said motion control was a gimmick?

    Then release a souped up eye toy?

  • bad09 #45 3 years ago

    Can we stop with the waggle hype now please EG? We've had some clueless PR twat talking Sony/MS up or down almost everyday since E3 on possibly the dullest aspect of event. Do we really care about Wii rip off crap that won't be out for ages anyway and will be aimed at the non gamesite reading Wii casual/family demographics and when it finally is here.

  • citizenHUNTER #46 3 years ago

    Why all the hate towards Natal??

    To me the implications for gaming are actually not as significant as they may be making out, at least not immediately. It's the user interface, the aspect of the 360 being able to recognise you and you being able to control it with simple and obvious gestures AND by voice recognition (which surely these days can operate fairly well) which is what excites me about it. It's a pretty cool system and I think people are dismissing it without giving it a chance. It's clearly NOT just a slightly better Eye Toy, goes way beyond that and I applaud MS for being gutsy and going all out and I think with this system we're seeing the beginning of something that will inevitably become ubiquitous in the way we as humans interact with technology going on into the future. This is gonna be the start of a naturalisation of interaction, making it more user friendly by FAR into the bargain. What's the problem with that?

    Now all we need are Cylon robots (Asimo Mark V), vastly increased A.I. which is an inevitability and then lo and beheold, THE FUTURE! Tis exciting, now stop being pessimistic cynical cocks you lot! :p
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 19:00

  • Vin #47 3 years ago

    The hardcore will always be cynical little fucks.

    They'll never, ever, change.

  • septimus #48 3 years ago

    A relaunch in the realms of "Look grandma! We can be like the Nintendos!!!"

    FFS MS.

  • smelly #49 3 years ago

    >It's clearly NOT just a slightly better Eye Toy

    you're right.. it's an eye toy with voice recognition

  • Xerx3s #50 3 years ago

    "The hardcore will always be cynical little fucks.

    They'll never, ever, change. "

    That's because so far, they have always been right.

  • Les #51 3 years ago

    "Can we stop with the waggle hype now please EG? We've had some clueless PR twat talking Sony/MS up or down almost everyday since E3 on possibly the dullest aspect of event."

    +1

  • bad09 #52 3 years ago

    Careful Les, I have dogs!

  • AusFreelancer #53 3 years ago

    LOL!!!!! @ mingster's comment.

    And the bit after launch, waiting for the games to roll in.... "Post Natal Depression".

  • Machiavellian #54 3 years ago

    As always the key will be hype and games. Natal will live or die if it can generate enough hype and actually produce the games to support the hype. Most of the comments in this thread are all the same things that were said about the Wii until Wii Sports pretty much met or exceeded the hype for a large segment of society. No one knows what games will be released with Natal. No one knows if they will get Natal until they see the games that are released for the system and the price for the device

    If the device is cheap enough it probably would only take one killer game to get people to purchase the device. If 3DV is to be believed, they say the tech could cost under a hundred. MS probably would not be shy to take a hit to get Natal around the price of a game. Remember that most of Natal features are based on software more than hardware.

    You already have a lot of games who would want natal just for the ability to navigate NXE and the Media Center stuff. Knowing MS, you can believe if they are as serious as they say, I can see them putting their money in something like a RPG that might benifit from Natal or maybe fun the cost for Bioware and Bethesa to add Natal to their RPG.

    Anyway, no one knows how Natal will turn out because we do not know what type of games will be used with the device. MS state that this will be like launching a new system so you can only assume that they will try to ensure games are ready when the device hits the market. Making sure you have games that cover your complete user base only makes the most sense. We will see if MS use some of that money to get devs like Bioware, Bethesa, Valve etc to get some games on the system that their existing userbase will like as well as games for the casual market.

  • ShiroBen #55 3 years ago

    Are there any actual games being announced for this thing?

  • #56 3 years ago

    lol....
    Hey guys..what do u think about this? just chat with me --I am an open-mineded single girl and I love sports. I want to end my single life by meeting a guy who likes sports too. Let's mingle at the big&tall dating club ___ TallMingle.com _____" which is a popular meeting site for tall singles and admirers!

  • Vin #57 3 years ago

    The hardcore are NEVER right.

  • Calgon #58 3 years ago

    PatAU erm not really mate, we dont know when that video was made(it could be that the real games werent ready or far enough along... are all the things shown in the demo real supposed to be real games anyway? I dont remember them claiming that).

    What we do know is people have got to test it out for a driving game that was hacked(burnout) and it works pretty well to say the didnt spend that long on it. So its not like claiming pre-rendered footage is what actual gameplay will look like when you hired a CGI company to make the demo.... they had plenty of real demos to show how well it works that people could try = you cant get any fairer than that, they had something real to show too after the conference rather than showing a video and ducking out for about 3 years.