Killzone 2 shots 'touched up'

By Tom Bramwell Published 10 December, 2007

But hang on, calm down.

Guerrilla Games has come under a bit of fire after admitting that screenshots of the Killzone 2 released last week had been retouched.

As Kotaku notes, side by side comparisons of the Games Convention trailer and new screenshots suggest some serious tweaking.

Guerrilla's Seb Downie protests on the PS3 forum: "They are only the tiniest bit touched up." He admits there was "a little bit of colour-correction done and some minor polish, but nothing major. Still very close to reality and it looks better in motion in my opinion."

Of course, the knee-jerk reaction is rather negative. After the original Killzone 2 trailer turned out to be "target rendering", the production of retouched screenshots was bound to rub people the wrong way.

However, Downie's argument shouldn't be dismissed. As anyone who has ever captured footage or screenshots directly from console hardware, or recorded video or images using shakycam, can attest, colours do need to be corrected because of the often wildly differing settings and characteristics on either side of the hardware interface.

You may remember that around the time of the PS3 launch we took some screen-grabs from PS3 review code and they appeared washed out, even drab. When we took the shots the first time, they looked absolutely fine, so we published them, only to discover that when viewed on other screens the result was significantly inferior. Once the colour had been re-balanced, they looked as they should.

So, does this mean Killzone 2 looks exactly as it does in the screenshots? Not necessarily. But it doesn't mean Guerrilla was trying to pull a fast one, either, which seems worth pointing out.

Killzone 2 is due out during, er...well, that's another matter entirely.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (172) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Carlo #1 5 years ago

    TOUCHED UP!

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #2 5 years ago

    Rrrrr

  • penhalion #3 5 years ago

    There's a huge difference beween touching up washed out shots and out right re-colouring the entire scene!

    Video of nearly all ps3 games show that it is the consoles hardware that produces these washd out colours. The retouching gives an image that no amount of tv adjusting can come close to.

  • DUFFKING #4 5 years ago

    The screens look much better than the crap-o-vision one they realeased a while back :)

    Definately not touched up much, the texturing in the distance kind of gives it away.

  • busboy33 #5 5 years ago

    The side-by-side comparison at Kotaku certainly doesn't look like "minor" touch-up. Looks like major f**king touch-up to me.

  • Kenshin001 #6 5 years ago

    Kotaku once again makes a storm in a teacup to generate hits. And EG obligingly reprints the fanboy baiting pap. Yay.

  • killest #7 5 years ago

    ps3lol

    (had to be said sooner or later)

  • Apologie #8 5 years ago

    Retouched screenshots are current and almost everybody do it... but in what concerns Killzone 2 is different, many consumers "and not only", desire the game to fail and basically grab anything they can to put the game down... Killzone2, retouched or not look amazing and will blast any console FP'S in the visuals department.
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 16:59

  • Garulon #9 5 years ago

    They've added shadows and orangey lighting on the left, But you'd have to be the most gullibile idiot in the world to still be looking forwards to KZ2 right about now. I've noticed it's dropped off the "next year I'll be playing" lists of even diehard PS3 nutter apologie.

  • captainrentboy #10 5 years ago

    THEY were touched up? Bloody hell, what did they look like beforehand? Because bar maybe two of them they all look a lil, dare I say it, average.
    Saying that, a lot of it is in the gameplay, Halo 3 wasn't exactly the most beautiful thing in the world but I still very much enjoyed the experience.
    Edited by captainrentboy at 10/12/07 @ 17:00

  • pinchofsalt #11 5 years ago


    This is hardly news. All screenshots are touched up.

  • agparrot #12 5 years ago

    So it looks fine INSIDE the PS3, it is only when it actually gets on to screens that it is all in need of modification?

    /confused, but hoping the £69 PS3 comes my way.

  • MBar #13 5 years ago

    PS3l ...

    Oh, killest got here first.

    You arsebag.

  • Darren #14 5 years ago

    Well touching up of screenshots happens with most games so this news doesn't surprise me. Anyway, I never put much trust in screenshots these days, as I've been naive enought to believe them in the past. Nowadays I prefer to judge a game's graphics by the quality of HD videos which show how smoothly it runs too (and whether it has tearing or not! :p ).

  • deaner #15 5 years ago

    Shock! Outrage! Etc!

    He's right though. I do frame-caps quite a lot and you do lose quite a lot of colour information, line definition and contract in the process.

    And these things do look better in motion. I mean, the Uncharted screenshots look cack but on-screen the whole game is beautiful.

    That said, I couldn't give a monkeys about Killzone2 because its predescessor was rubbish!

    Vive la Haze! 10/10 EG! You all know why!

  • Uncle_Fishboy #16 5 years ago

    I wish someone would touch me up

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #17 5 years ago

    @bcolter - lol :-D

    I agree that colour correcting isn't a big deal, etc, but I've not been too impressed with what I've seen of Killzone 2. Never played the first one, so I don't wanna comment on its quality or lack thereof, but graphically, it doesn't look as good as, say, Uncharted or Haze (or Halo 3, or Gears, or BioShock).

    And the gameplay in the vid didn't look as interesting as all those games, either.

  • Eighthours #18 5 years ago

    Kotaku once again makes a storm in a teacup to generate hits. And EG obligingly reprints the fanboy baiting pap. Yay.

    And even more predictably, there's a comment like the above. Darwinism is overrated (as we all know from the canoe thing).

  • lennon #19 5 years ago

    Ahh the pressure of the killzone franchies rears up again. Seriously this doesnt worry me the game is still some way away and so anything released at the minute isnt exactly going to be final quality anyway. That said it feels a little bit like we have been here before doesnt it?

  • Gurgeh #20 5 years ago

    The side-by-side screenshot comes from Playstation Universe, kotaku just linked to it.

    The smart thing to do is not post screenshots if they don't do the game justice. One thing that can be spotted is the textures looking distinctly on the low-res side.

  • Eighthours #21 5 years ago

    Interestingly, the new shot isn't the same as the old shot. Look at it more closely, and you'll see. One thing is the view through the sight. The gun's actually aiming at a different position on the wall than in the original shot.

  • chicknstu #22 5 years ago

    Yeah... we all guessed it anyways.

    Much like the target rendering that was attempted to be passed off as gameplay footage. They must think the public are stupid...

    .... wait a minute... they are, cos it worked on most of them.

  • BBIAJ #23 5 years ago

    ApologieLOL

  • Stormflood #24 5 years ago

    Nice one EG. Take what is a non-issue and fan the flames hoping they will catch alight the tinder box brains of the fanboys.

    *sigh* Ok, here's approximately what was done to the screen cap.

    1. Open Photoshop.
    2. Open the non 'retouched' screencap.
    3. Go into Image>Adjustments>Hue/saturation.
    4. Make Hue -11 and Saturation -31.
    5. Now go into Image>Adjustments>Levels.
    6. Set Input values to 28, 0.91 and 184.
    7. Enjoy your criminally 'retouched' KZ2 screen, and hope EG or Kotaku don't hunt you down for the scum you are.

  • Steroyd #25 5 years ago

    I knew this comments section was going to be a sad sad place to be right now.

  • Ryze #26 5 years ago

    @Apologie

    Have you looked at the difference in these screenshots?

    [link url=http://www.psu.com/media/killzone-project-/killzone-project--ss-61.jpg
    ]http://www.psu.com/media/killzone-projec...[/link]

    Please kindly fuck off, fanboy.

  • dudefella #27 5 years ago

    Guess what - nearly all promotional shots for games are touched up in some way. So anyone who's crying over this -

    BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

  • Apologie #28 5 years ago

    Britesparc

    "Never played the first one, so I don't wanna comment on its quality or lack thereof, but graphically, it doesn't look as good as, say, Uncharted or Haze (or Halo 3, or Gears, or BioShock)."

    you gotta be kidding me..., comparing Killzone 2 graphics to Halo 3 graphics... is like comparing a Lamborghini to a Hyundai. Killzone have some of the best facial and body animations ever seen in a videogame, everything else is also top notch, great game visually, the only doubt about i have is related to the multiplayer and single player content "because visually is undisputably one of the best games ever seen".

  • Steroyd #29 5 years ago

    @Ryze

    bloody hell is that all!? o_O

  • Stifler #30 5 years ago

    @Stormflood

    Hmm looks to me like the entire gun model has moved, you sure they only changed the hue ;)

  • drumm23 #31 5 years ago

    Apolol.

  • Ryze #32 5 years ago

    @Steroyd

    Mate - these guys are skating on thin ice. I would love to buy a PS3 - but I've been getting bullshitted since 2004-5 over this shite!

    It's nearly 2008!

    They're still fucking up and, OK many screenshots ARE touched up, but Guerrilla & Sony need to be aware of this shit after losing so many of their customers for a combitation of arrogance, bullshit and a shite product with a borked architecture.

    Again - I'm REALLY looking forward to playing God Of War 3 and Shadow of the ICO 3 in... 2010, when I buy my PS3!!!
    Edited by Ryze at 10/12/07 @ 17:54

  • Waldo #33 5 years ago

    This is(n't) an outrage!

  • themorganator #34 5 years ago

    @Apologie: You're so blinded, its insane.

    Bcolter summed it up correctly:

    PS3 = BS3

  • Kenshin001 #35 5 years ago

    "Name another game that has had retouched screenshots published."

    I'd say pretty much all of them. They are called bullshots and are pretty much part and parcel of the industry. EA got caught out with NBA Live 08 a couple of months ago.

  • polymorph #36 5 years ago

    Wasn't the first one a bit "shit" though?

    I remember all the hype, ps2 mags "halo kller" ( not that halo was great either)
    played the demo thought it was run of the mill, didn't buy it.
    Why is this better?
    Baring in mind i have all the consoles, im not a fanboy, have ps3 and xbox360, t just seems the same but with better graphics.

  • Bill_Gates_Bitch #37 5 years ago

    Ha ha ha Sony, you and gorilla are going down. Nobody believes your bullshit anymore.

  • Xensor #38 5 years ago

    @Apologie

    What i think you meant to say was comparing Killzone 2 and Halo 3 is like comparing a Lambo and a Ferrari. It'll look better than halo from some angles and worse from others.

    @ Ryze

    Wow you must have a degree in literacy, such colour language :p Haven't you learned yet, telling someone to fuck off on a website is like pissing in a river - an irrelevance.

    @Stormflood

    Thanks for a bit of sense amongst the brainfarts.

    @farticusmaximus

    Grillstation?!? BWAHAHAHAHA that's the funniest thing like, evah! I'm stunned Murdoch hasn't hired you to edit the Sun, you have SUCH a way with words!

    @Steroyd

    I feel your pain...

  • Retroid #39 5 years ago

    /Facehands

    On this game of all off them...!

    There's a change of focus too on that retouched screenie. It's not just a colour filter.

    Seriously, couldn't they just let it stand for itself? It's not as if the biggest competitor, Halo 3, actually looked that good.
    Edited by Retroid at 10/12/07 @ 18:12

  • George-Roper #40 5 years ago

    Jesus, Apologie, what you're saying is fucking tragic...

    It's like when you see someone on tele making a cunt out of themselves and it makes you feel...well...uncomfortable.

  • Yaz #41 5 years ago

    Apologie wrote: "because visually is undisputably one of the best games ever seen"

    Wow, it seems EVERY great looking PS3 game is the best if not the best EVER SEEN to you Apologie :). Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Killzone 2 etc. You know it is OK to be critical of PS3 games sometimes, I'm sure Sony wouldn't mind, I'm sure they wouldn't hold it against you. ;)

    Anyway, Killzone 2 looks great. You can see the work and attention to detail that's gone into the game from the little touches we see in the movies and read about in the previews. It really does have the 'potential' to be something special. However, the texture resolution is rather on the low side (some worse than others of course), and I'm not convinced that it really offers anything beyond other FPSs. And graphically, it reminds me of COD4 in terms of look and feel (albeit in a sci-fi setting).

    COD4 makes the graphics in KZ2 unsurprising. By that I mean if the 360 and PS3 could achieve COD4, then the graphics of KZ2 is not surprising on the PS3 in 2008.

    Regarding the touched up pictures. Why is it I get the feeling that if this was a MS exclusive game, you wouldn't be cutting them any slack at all, but instead would launched an all out attack on MS and the devs! ;)

    That said, the comparison picture shown isn't really a big deal. The colour changes are well within the capabilities of the console (the devs for MGS4 and COD4 have demonstrated changing the lighting, colour, contrast, brightness of their games in realtime. So why not Killzone2?), and the comparison pic shown here isn't actually the same;

    [link url=http://www.psu.com/media/killzone-project-/killzone-project--ss-61.jpg
    ]http://www.psu.com/media/killzone-projec...[/link]

    It's from the same scene, but if you look at the soldier and gun in both pics, you'll see the postition is slightly different. So it's not touched up from the pic shown.
    Edited by Yaz at 10/12/07 @ 18:14

  • Retroid #42 5 years ago

    It's fairly obvious it's not the exact same frame.

    /Just wishes they hadn't done anything to it

  • onyxbox #43 5 years ago

    Anything Kotaku post should be dismissed, they're the dregs of gaming journalism IMO.

  • Ryze #44 5 years ago

    @Xensor

    Fuck off

    :-P
    Edited by Ryze at 10/12/07 @ 18:26

  • messiahtj #45 5 years ago

    "BS3 "

    BScolter

  • Apologie #46 5 years ago

    yaZ

    "Wow, it seems EVERY great looking PS3 game is the best if not the best EVER SEEN to you Apologie :)"

    Isn't that normal?? as time goes on, Dev's get more confortable with the system and and therefore increase the quality of they'r products.

    "In case you guy's don't know it yet, Killzone 2 received the Special Commendation Award for Graphics" even before it's released... that gotta mean something... in what concerns the textures, as you know the game will recieve a lot of polish until it's launched so "it's not even optimised".
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 18:46

  • Aretak #47 5 years ago

    "In case you guy's don't know it yet, Killzone 2 received the Special Commendation Award for Graphics"

    From who? Why should I care?

  • sharpfish #48 5 years ago

    can we just scrap 'this gen' and start all over again with PS4 and an Xbox that doesn't die every few months...

    worse. gen. ever. (and i'm a 360 owner)

    on the flipside, one of the best years for PC gamers (thank's crysis!)

  • Kryon #49 5 years ago

    @Apololol

    "Killzone 2 received the Special Commendation Award for Graphics" even before it's released... that gotta mean something... "

    You talk so much nonsense.

  • mcmonkeyplc #50 5 years ago

    FUKz0R U NU0B5 PSZ3 R0c5z0R!111111111! TEN point 1

  • BBIAJ #51 5 years ago

    Awards for games that haven't been released yet, like all those pointless E3 awards for games years from completion that websites love to dole out, are utterly meaningless.

    Rather like yourself Apologie...

  • captainrentboy #52 5 years ago

    Apologie, you're a cunt!
    No need to reply, it's just my new thing, I'm going to make you aware and remind you that you're a cunt in every comments section I see you in.
    Have a good day :)

  • symbiote #53 5 years ago

    Killzone, Haze, Metal Gear, Wipeout, Gran Turismo, God of War, Final Fantasy, Team Ico..

    Bring it the fuck on :)

  • George-Roper #54 5 years ago

    @symbiote

    "Killzone, Haze, Metal Gear, Wipeout, Gran Turismo, God of War, Final Fantasy, Team Ico..

    Bring it the fuck on :)"

    You forgot the last bit...

    "Bring it the fuck on :) I dont mind waiting another year, just make em good, yeah?"

  • captainrentboy #55 5 years ago

    Ohhh it's getting brought on, don't you worry about that...... Just very, veeeerrrrry slowly, with delay after delay after delay, but hey!! You stay psyched young sir, those games are gonna rock everybody's world :)

  • symbiote #56 5 years ago

    ""Bring it the fuck on :) I dont mind waiting another year, just make em good, yeah?"

    Fo sho - just nice having good things to wait for :)

  • Apologie #57 5 years ago

    Get to know your lighting
    Lighting is the most important part of any graphical asset in a video game. Without proper lighting, even the most high definition textures and carefully modeled polygon characters/environments will simply look like crap. Lighting is what makes these beautifully designed games come to life.

    There are just TWO types of lighting possible: direct and indirect. Each have their own sub-categories like soft, harsh, diffused, etc. But there are ONLY two! It’s the mixture of these two which can provide a truly visceral experience. Killzone 2 uses a multitude of lighting effects applied in real-time on a situation-by-situation basis. This is by far the most complex and impressive lighting engine created for a console video game. Everything you see in Killzone 2 is made possible by the lighting engine. If you turn it off, you will simply have a black screen - this is VERY important to remember. Most video games do not use this type of lighting because it’s not only difficult to code - but uses an enormous amount of processing power.
    The visibility in most games is attributed to only to the actual textures which are applied to objects in a game. Turn off the lighting in game X and you will still be able to see the room or area you’re in. This is static and pre-canned environmental lighting. In Killzone 2, everything you see is affected by ambient and direct light sources. If there is no light source nearby… there is no light… you will not be able to see anything. The color of ANY level can be dynamically changed by the color of the lighting engine.
    I’ve heard a LOT of complaints about “It’s too GRAY!” from the E3 footage. Stupid people still exist! The level that was shown was under a looming thunderstorm… it’s no wonder everything is drab and gray… because the SKY is drab and gray. This is how lighting affects the environment. Imagine a hot, sweltering day where the sun is beaming down on you hard: everything will be bright, possibly reddish or tan like a desert. That same scorching hot day can drastically change with the weather - thusly completely changing your environment and everything in it via AMBIENT lighting or Indirect lighting.
    Examples
    In no particular order:
    Our first example of lighting is probably the most prominent in the game: Muzzle Flash. This occurs when firing any number of different weapons. This light is Direct with mixtures of soft, harsh, diffusion and color. The color will no doubt be affected by the type of weapon you are firing. Some may be orange-ish, some may be more fluorescent. Take a look at the picture below to see just how this uses direct/indirect lighting to not only change the Helghast in front of your gun, but the environment as well:
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/muzzleflashsi4.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Aside from the Muzzle Flash - you will notice yet ANOTHER detail associated with firing a weapon: Muzzle Flare! I believe this is a replacement for the typical LENS FLARE effect we see in many games. This is being used instead because… HEY! We don’t run around with cameras in our faces when we’re in battle (that’s just how we roll)… so why should we get lens flare? Take note in the next picture the purple flare effect you see when firing your weapon:
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/muzzleflareaw8.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Impressed yet? Keep reading.
    Next I’d like to show just how advanced and beautiful the Self-Shadowing is being done on players/enemies in Killzone 2. This uses a mixture of direct, soft and diffused lighting to help create shadows that are proper, SOFT (not jagged) and diffused. This is probably the most complex self-shadowing we have seen in a real-time game. Take special note that the characters do NOT use any Bump-Mapping for effect. All detail in clothing/armor are achieved through EXTREMELY high amounts of polygon detail: Note the subtleness of the diffusion being applied to both the lighting and shadows on this Mini-Boss and how it helps make his incredible detail simply “pop”!


    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/selfshadowingms2.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Diffusion is one of the most impressive and realistic effects you can have applied in-game. This emulates exactly how real light would affect an object. Take a look at this example of diffusion: see how the muzzle flash is affecting the shattering box? The closer to the nozzle the wood fragments are - the brighter the light will be. Note how each individual piece of wood also affects the other fragments with indirect lighting - attributing to the stunning detail of proper soft shadowing!
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/diffusionuc31.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Here’s another great example of diffusion being used in conjunction with ambient lighting and proper self and soft shadowing. Take note in Sev’s brow, cheek, lips and ridge of his nose. This is how ambient lighting being refracted off of the clouds will affect players/environments in Killzone 2.
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/ambientts4.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Direct lighting is lighting that is being cast on a player/object in the environment from a specific light source such as a street light, desk lamp, candle, fire, etc. Take a look at this next example of a Helghast trooper underneath a light - note the incredible level of detail in his clothing that begins to “pop” simply from a few wrinkles:
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/directjv7.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    This is probably my favorite example of how detailed and accurate the lighting engine in this game is. Someone (a hater) said in a post that the Helghast’s masks aren’t actually lit up - that they are simply textures - because such minute details don’t need that much attention. Here’s proof that this naysayer was DEAD wrong. Note how the goggles on this trooper’s mask light up his SLEEVE and the shadowing that is being created on his face-mask and sleeve because of this light. ALSO take note of this incredibly small detail of INDIRECT LIGHTING: take a look at the front of the helmet… notice the ambient lighting coming from the sleeve of the trooper is affecting his helmet? Remember… his goggles are UNDERNEATH the brim of his helmet. Goggles shine on to sleeve - sleeve then reflects diffused lighting onto the helmet… IMPRESSIVE!
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/helghasteyesoj8.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Explosions: Need I say more? Note how the light coming from the explosion is even affecting the air-duct and pipes underneath running just up and to the left of that poor Helghast who got his ass BLOWN TO SMITHEREENZ!
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/explosionsn2.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Lightning - Zeus commands it… now the Helghast do, too! Notice how this flash of lightning drastically changes the overall color of the environment. The fluorescent color of the lightning is what attributes to this environmental change. It also affects you (well… you can see your gun) and the Helghast. The color of the lightning is directly attributed to the color of the surrounding clouds - the fluorescence of lightning helps remove the muting typically associated with soft lighting. Fluorescent lighting is often noted as “Harsh” lighting because it is unnatural. Also take note how the lightning makes certain details of the cement curb “pop” like small holes and imperfections.
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/lightningtf4.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    Let’s take one last look at all of the lighting elements combined into a single shot. Note the direct, indirect, soft, ambient, harsh, colored and diffused lighting along with proper self, soft, and diffused shadowing.
    http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa... ([link url=http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/transportlightningrp4.jpg)
    ]http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/uploa...[/link]
    The sequence of pictures at the end illustrated the drastic changes in the surface caused by different light sources. Not many games use that quantity of resources to only light and shadow.
    Another feature is that lights have regions of illumination. These sources cast partial shadows in a limited field.
    We have more than four or five sources of light emitters. There are global sources, partial sources that radiate small fields, flashes, fixed lights that display shadows projected in the floor in combination, and some sources behave like dimmers.
    CREDITS TO Ninja-Matic and SantiagoFlores.

    http://community.eu.playstation.com/arch...
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 19:18

  • symbiote #58 5 years ago

    Wow dude, that's a lot of broken links ya have there...

  • captainrentboy #59 5 years ago

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnah!....... Ugh, uuhhhhh, what was that Apologie?

  • Kryon #60 5 years ago

    The PS3 actually won the 'Best Three Legged Toothless Dog 2007' award! It's tipped to win the same award next year aswell ;-)

  • George-Roper #61 5 years ago

    MY EYES!

  • Apologie #62 5 years ago

    If you retards werent so narrowminded and ignorant (Bcolter Kryon and phatb0y )... i would actually advise all of you to read that "article" (my last post), but that's useless.
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 19:40

  • George-Roper #63 5 years ago

    It's bollocks, Apologie. It's developers blowing smoke up your ass, in an attempt to generate a frenzy for the release.

    It in NO WAY constitutes a 10/10, 5/5, Platinum, 100% scored game.

  • Kryon #64 5 years ago

    "If you retards werent so narrowminded and ignorant"

    LOL! No honestly, I almost pissed myself in real life! Coming from Apololol, that statement is fucking hilarious XD

  • phatb0y #65 5 years ago

    Reading Apologie's post makes it (even more) embarrassing to own a PS3.

    Oh yeah, and KZ2 will be overhyped shite. Just like the first. I love the back story and character/weapons designs, but the games themselves have been fucking crud. Guerrilla need to crack the basics (killzonesniperriflelol) before attempting anything as ambitious as KZ2.

  • Steroyd #66 5 years ago

    I would just like to put up a disclaimer that Apolilol doesn't represent PS3 owners, i.e me.

    /sells PS3 in shame.

  • drumbaby #67 5 years ago

    Killzone 2 looks exactly like the numerous real time actual gameplay videos everyone's seen since forever.

    Duh.

  • drumbaby #68 5 years ago

    "PS3 owners, you sure picked the right console!"

    Judging by the videos of the actual game in action, I'd say yes, you're right.

  • smelly #69 5 years ago

    "just a little bit" was the scout masters plea to the police when he was accused of "touching up"

  • Kryon #70 5 years ago

    To be fair though, you have to give Apolilol some props, I mean it can't be easy being a grown man (debatable, I know) who is so devoted to a toy, I guess some guys just love it big n black.

  • George-Roper #71 5 years ago

    @drumbaby

    ""PS3 owners, you sure picked the right console!"

    Judging by the videos of the actual game in action, I'd say yes, you're right."

    Haha, so you think that this is worth choosing the PS3 for? A game thats not even out yet, how long after the PS3 was released?

    PS3 fanbois, fucking jokers the lot of them.

  • Dizzy #72 5 years ago

    Touched up!!!??!!! I am shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
















    NOT!

  • Kryon #73 5 years ago

    "a glamerous clown hooker"

    Mmm...Tell me more! Is it Apolilol's sister?

  • JediMasterMalik #74 5 years ago

    I can't believe people are still in conversation with Apologie and Kryon. Seriously.

  • busboy33 #75 5 years ago

    @Stormflood:
    So it was just the hue and saturation, eh?
    Wonder how the ENTIRE RIGHT WALL DISAPPEARED? Was that too much hue or saturation? Mabye both? Mabye they went through and re-did the photo?
    Nah, you're right -- must just be lighting enhancement. Guess Im just imagining the wall in the first picture.
    OR you're a friggin' twit apologist. One or the other.

  • tapper #76 5 years ago

    Am I the only one who thinks the untouched image looks better? Sure, it could could use a bit more color saturation, but at least it got a nice, linear gamma curve.

    I can't understand why people are so fond of the high contrast found in many games where shadows crushed and highlights are clipped. It looks really unnatural in most cases.

  • vegard #77 5 years ago

    don't care about the screenshot-tweaking, from what i know it's fairly common. just hoping that the team is working on some GAMEPLAY too, not just fancy graphics.

  • Canadian_Mike #78 5 years ago

    Hahahaha!

    Apologie is killing you wankers. This is fun to watch.

    He is 100% right though.

    *salt*

    EDIT: This game should be fun! !

    :)
    Edited by Canadian_Mike at 10/12/07 @ 21:28

  • BadBoyBonner #79 5 years ago

    [link url=http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten-why.htm
    ]http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten-why.htm
    [/link]

    Click on the link.

    Go down to the second screen shot - which has no textures.

    See the difference between direct illumination - and radiosity.

    Now that is great lighting - and they have become an UE3 IPP.

    I suggest most games will be using this method of lighting in the not too distant future.

  • Kryon #80 5 years ago

    @Malik (The loser StarWars geek)

    You are just as bad as Apolilol, I must admit you've toned down your fanboyism in the last year or so but don't pretend like you're not a Sony apologist. The only reason your enthusiasm has taken a sideline of late is because you (unlike Apolilol) atleast had enough brain power to realise that the PS3 is not the holy grail that Sony promised you! I'm glad you don't come out with as much nonsense as you used to but please, stop pretending you are a non biased gamer, you are not.

  • Canadian_Mike #81 5 years ago

    Kryon...

    You need to get laid bad buddy.

    ;)


    You know to much about some dudes on a forum.

    Some poor (but probably ugly) lady could take up some of this time you seem to have on your hands.

    ...are videogames really worth this much energy?
    Edited by Canadian_Mike at 10/12/07 @ 21:36

  • Dizzy #82 5 years ago

    >See the difference between direct illumination - and radiosity.

    TBH mate Radiosity is very 1990s.... current light models are way more advanced than that.

    BTW as far as I know.. KZ2 does not use Radiosity... or does it? Maybe in a touched up kinda way :)

  • polar #83 5 years ago

    @Canadian Mike.

    Well we've all taken out time to post here. Looks to me like you've just as much time to waste as Kryon...

    As for KZ2, I couldn't care less if they touched up the shot. I wonder how it plays?

  • Kryon #84 5 years ago

    @Canadian_Mike

    You're Canadian hence you really shouldn't be trying to insult others, glass houses and all that jazz...

  • Yaz #85 5 years ago

    "Wow dude, that's a lot of broken links ya have there..."

    It's from one of those "Let's see if I can make feature X in the game seem more impressive than it actually is" blogs which did the rounds on forums about 6 months ago (as given in the last link in Apologie's post).

    You can read a much better copy of it here, complete with pics;

    http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show...
    Edited by Yaz at 10/12/07 @ 21:59

  • Redeye #86 5 years ago

    Ashcrapper = funniest, most disturbing and most surreal response ever, all in one hit. Bravo.

    Publishers playing silly buggers with screenshots = happening since videogames were invented. Check some old VCS/Intellivision/Coleco ads, and you'll see what I mean.

  • BBIAJ #87 5 years ago

    @Apologie:

    NO-ONE CARES!

    The lighting will be all for nowt if the gameplay's a great big pile of steaming hot wank.

  • Apologie #88 5 years ago

    The problem here is that most of you don't even try to say something intresting about the subject, or express a serious opinion (that's really anoying)..., the article i copied and paste before in these comment section about Killzone2, seemd coherent and somehow true "judgind by the videos i've seen"... the game have an extraordinary engine and presented some of the most impressive use of lightning "if not the best ever seen". I don't know if the game will deliver in the other departments, such as multiplayer and gameplay, but graphics wise, is without a doubt, one of the best games i ever saw (i really enjoy the art direction of Killzone as well)... so, can anyone blame a Ps3 owner for beign looking forward to such a promising game??? of course not.

    By the way, try to say something different then "the first Killzone was shit and so these one will be shit too"... that's ridiculous... it's like saying that the first XBOX was inferior/and a piece of shit when compared to Ps2, and because of that X360 will be equally inferior and a piece of shit when compared to PS3... just plain stupid.

    (Sorry about my english)
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 22:14

  • Qbert2k #89 5 years ago

    You copy/pasted a load of fanboy drivel taken from the system wars forum on gamespot, and expect people to take you seriously?

  • ShieldOfFaith #90 5 years ago

    Was to be expected, everyone knows PS3 is shit.

  • Kryon #91 5 years ago

    "X360 will be equally inferior and a piece of shit when compared to PS3... just plain stupid."

    So you are admitting that to call the 360 inferior to the PS3 is "just plain stupid"? Well done Apolilol, there's hope for you yet (not very much but atleast you admit that you have been "just plain stupid" in the past)

  • Yaz #92 5 years ago

    Apologie wrote: "The problem here is that most of you don't even try to say something intresting about the subject, or express a serious opinion (that's really anoying)"

    Part of that is to do with the presentation of your point of view Apologie. You don't just say things are great on the PS3, or excellent, or superb etc, it's always the "best ever" (which was the point I was making earlier).

    For me, I've discussed that blog already numerous times months ago, hence I'm not really in the mood to go through it all over again (sorry :)).

    "..., the article i copied and paste before in these comment section about Killzone2, seemd coherent and somehow true "judgind by the videos i've seen"... the game have an extraordinary engine and presented some of the most impressive use of lightning "if not the best ever seen""

    Again, "if not the best ever seen". It couldn't just be good, or very good or excellent, it always has to be or possibly be "the best ever seen". This is the type of line you use time and time again regarding PS3 games, including Heavenly Sword and Uncharted, often together with the suggestion that it's only possible on PS3, and hence even those gamers who may agree with you that something is impressive on the PS3, may feel unable to support you here because you always take it too far. :|
    Edited by Yaz at 10/12/07 @ 22:27

  • J.C #93 5 years ago

    Still cant understand the frenzy with this game. its not a proven franchise, and the first game did not deliver. so why are people hyping this title so much? makes no sense to me. this could end up being about as good as timeshift imo.

  • Kryon #94 5 years ago

    @Yaz

    Do you enjoy baby sitting Apolilol? I know you're a good chap but you wrap the fool in cotton wool by explaining the most obvious things to him, does he deserve that much attention? The guy is an idiot, why do you waste your time with coherent replies? He does not understand, he never will (and that has nothing to do with language barriers)...
    Edited by Kryon at 10/12/07 @ 22:33

  • onyxbox #95 5 years ago

    this sort of 'touch up' happens all of the time.

    <a href='http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/6/4/8/0/5/Halo3_002.jpg.jpg'>looks nicer than i remeber it</a>

    ;-)

  • dudefella #96 5 years ago

    In this thread: people go

    BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    seriously, who gives a flying fuck either way? OH NOES THEY CHANGED THE LIGHTING IN THE SCREENSHTOSRTa
    Edited by dudefella at 10/12/07 @ 22:44

  • smelly #97 5 years ago

    >seriously, who gives a flying fuck either way?

    See, what you're forgetting is that 360 fanboys are quite possibly the worst around when it comes to trolling.

    And what with this being potentially the best ps3 game - they're going to jump in all the time (probably worried as it's running in true hidef or something)

  • Jokerr #98 5 years ago

    Are you kidding? This is like the console wars equivalent of the pearl harbour bombing.

  • Charlie_Miso #99 5 years ago

    ya'll nerds (me also)

  • George-Roper #100 5 years ago

    @smelly

    "See, what you're forgetting is that 360 fanboys are quite possibly the worst around when it comes to trolling.

    And what with this being potentially the best ps3 game - they're going to jump in all the time (probably worried as it's running in true hidef or something)"

    Well, except that as has already been stated, it comes from a dire heritage with absolutely nothing proven, in terms of what it can/cannot deliver on.

    Fact is, PS3 fanbois are spouting, once again, because KZ2 is apparently (yet again) going to be the 'next best thing on PS3 only'. I've lost count of just how many 'next best things on the PS3 only' there have been, in total.

    Apologie, care to comment?

  • septimus #101 5 years ago

    Can anyone else say meh? The graphic detail hasn't gone up, the colours have changed. Who gives a flying f***?

    Gametrailers tried this bullshit on Assassins Creed comparison shots because their capture hardware sucks and the shots became washed out.

  • Slamhound #102 5 years ago

    "I've lost count of just how many 'next best things on the PS3 only' there have been, in total."

    Uncharted seems to be the best runner in this category, speaking as a purely objective observer here.

    It's just a damn pity Sony aren't marketing it at all over here, instead returning to their crappy surrealism adverts around the obligatory Ratchet & Clank spots, which is akin to swapping out your bloody, mangled stump of a shin for your remaining foot at the business end of the shotgun in your hands.

  • George-Roper #103 5 years ago

    @Slamhound

    "I've lost count of just how many 'next best things on the PS3 only' there have been, in total."

    Uncharted seems to be only runner in this category, speaking as a purely objective observer here. "

    Fixed.

  • mkreku #104 5 years ago

    Why are people so harsh about the original Killzone? Sure, it almost broke the poor PS2 trying to run it (a bit overambitious) , but I thought it had lovely weapons (yes, even the sniper rifle) excellent, scary enemies (Helghast!) and some pretty fancy level designs. It was a bit too difficult for me (I never managed to finish it) but to say it was utter crap is not fair.

    I wonder how many here who claim "Killzone sucked!!" has actually played the game?

  • Apologie #105 5 years ago

    Since the beginig that the Ps3 "most wanted titles" are Metal Gear Solid 4, GOd of War 3 and GT 5, "thouse games are basically the reason that made me buy my Ps3"..., Killzone 2 are not in that list altough because of that stupid CG in 2005, everybody began talking about the game like "the next big thing", it's a promissing game (i am actually one of the few people that enjoyed the 1st), and i hope it turns out great, but it's definitely not a strong franchise or an important game for the system when compared to the ones i listed above.
    And then we have the so called surprises like Uncharted (really good game), Ratchet, Motorstorm, Resistance, Warhawk, Haze, Little Big Planet, Folklore etc... that are either great (because we already had the pleasure to play them) or exciting (because they look very promising).
    Returning to Killzone2... i don't hype the game, i only say that the graphics look amazing. but as i said... gameplay, multiplayer etc... are yet to be seen, for now, i only comment on the graphics, and judging by the videos i see, they look bloody fantastic.
    Edited by Apologie at 10/12/07 @ 23:55

  • tonynibbles #106 5 years ago

    It'd be nice if Killzone 2 didn't have a "2" at the end of it, it's platform hadn't been announced, and it had no prior history or any associated hype.
    Then people might have more interesting things to say about the subject.

    But still, it's not and they don't.

  • GingerNathan #107 5 years ago

    Am I bothered that they touched up this (or any other) screen shot?, no. I am surprised however that after all of the fuss surrounding the original Killzone2 trailer when they lied about the CGI content, that they would allow game content to be released which wasn't 100% genuine. :/


  • urban #108 5 years ago

    this has happened a thousand times in the past (touch ups) the only reason this is getting attention is because its an fps on the ps3, and theres nothing more controversial than bringing out fps's against the 360

    if i was a mod i'd just lock this because theres not much to discuss except "ps3 is shit" "suck my wee wee"

  • FWB #109 5 years ago

    So, err, no news here.

  • BBIAJ #110 5 years ago

    @septimus:

    Except that Assassin's Creed on the PStriple is a washed out blurry mess, as proven by EG's very own captures.

    Not to mention how bug ridden it is on Phony's "powerhouse" platform, and yet, I just did...

  • drumbaby #111 5 years ago

    "Haha, so you think that this is worth choosing the PS3 for? A game thats not even out yet, how long after the PS3 was released? "

    Uncharted and Ratchet ring any bells, laughing boy? ;)

  • Ryze #112 5 years ago

    @Apololol

    CLIMBDOWN!

    Again - you clicked on the wrong website.

    Here you go:

    [link url=http://us.gamespot.com/tosser
    ]http://us.gamespot.com/tosser
    [/link]

  • Kryon #113 5 years ago

    "Uncharted and Ratchet ring any bells"

    Yes they do ring bells, a bit like the spastic in The Hunchback of Notre dam.

  • Beano #114 5 years ago

    "this sort of 'touch up' happens all of the time.

    looks nicer than i remeber it"

    Very good point... touching up (and even faking) screenshots is quite common.

    Halo 3 in-game is far uglier (lo-res and jaggy) than the linked screenshot.
    Edited by Beano at 11/12/07 @ 08:37

  • onyxbox #115 5 years ago

    ^^^ indeed ^^^

    <a href='http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles/a/6/4/8/0/5/H3_MPAlpha_HighGroundAssault.jpg'>Another Halo 3 example</a>

    Just view the full image.... no way does it look like that!

  • haowan #116 5 years ago

    Every one of you needs to die.

  • Dizzy #117 5 years ago

    >Just view the full image.... no way does it look like that!

    Sarcasm?

  • darkmistx #118 5 years ago

    I'm surprised certain people always forget about he supposedly in-engine Halo 3 trailer from this year's E3. Wonder why that is?

    [link url=http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4237/0200655201300xn3.jpg
    ]http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4237/...[/link]

    edit: not really.

    edit2: meant the one from E3 2006
    Edited by darkmistx at 11/12/07 @ 09:44

  • BadBoyBonner #119 5 years ago

    Dizzy

    "TBH mate Radiosity is very 1990s.... current light models are way more advanced than that."

    So your stating Dynamic (real-time) Radiosity lighting has been around since the 90's?

    Can you state one engine that is based Dynamic (real-time) Radiosity lighting from the 90's? Or even to this very day?

    And we are taking about true radiosity - not some shadow hacked "instant radisoity" which isn't radiosity lighting at all and certainly isn't in real-time, but is multi-sampled direct illumination with shadows disabled (leading to image degradation) to approximate the light and light-ray direction being calculated at random (leading to further image degradation) and refelcted a random number of times (leading to further image degradation) - all to give a rough approximation of radioisty.

    Add in that the engine needs to also support convincing specular highlights from bounced specular lighting?

    If what you were saying were true - the Doom 3 engine, which most agree was a work of genius at the time - would have actually have been viewed as a bit crap and old school with obvious flaws such as the torch lighting.

    "The ability to compute radiosity effects in real time breaks a whole array of restrictions under which games are currently made. Without real-time radiosity the diffuse lighting solution is often computed off-line and layered on top of the geometry as a light-map. Then if a light is turned on, or the sun is obscured, nothing happens!

    A noticeable example of this is when one is exploring scenes set in a dark room with a torch. In reality we know how exploring such a room will still allow us to see objects outside the torch light due to bounced light, but in practice games cannot traditionally achieve this effect."

    What do we mean by 'real time'?

    The phrase "real-time radiosity" is both over-used and abused in the graphics literature. For use in a game, computing radiosity at 10 frames per second (fps) is simply not good enough. For a lighting technique to be practical then in isolation it must be hitting well over 100fps, so that when it is incorporated into a complete solution, rates of 60fps can be achieved. Enlighten easily fulfils these performance requirements.

    And before we move onto other things - I have seen the real-time ray-tracing used to run Quake 3 on the "30 GHz PC" - all good interesting stuff - making it difficult to predict exactly where graphics are going to go in the future.

    All we do know is that the vision to make something look real is the objective; limited by the technology available to achieve the desired effect. But the technology available is also the software, as well as the speed of hardware and I think the new algebraic techniques used by Geometrics to answer these graphical problems will prove to be beneficial to gaming as a whole.

    Of course – someone could come along and do what ever someone else has already done better and faster.

    The future is almost here.

  • Dizzy #120 5 years ago

    >So your stating Dynamic (real-time) Radiosity lighting has been around since the 90's?

    Not at all... and please stop quoting Wikipedia on me.

    I am glad you are excited for Radiosity... but it is old news in the world of computer graphics. Yeah yeah... maybe not in games, but there are much newer things now that produce better results for the power required to calculate them. Also radiosity is great for some types of scenes... but pretty shit for certain others.

  • kangarootoo #121 5 years ago

    Jesus, I wish a had a tidal wave I could drive over this thread. You are all as bad as each other.

    We have all seen plenty of screens of KZ2 already. We have even seen a trailer built entirely from gameplay footage. So we all know (even if some won't admit it) that it looks visually bloody stunning.

    Whether the gameplay lives up to the task is something else entirely, but seriously, who gives a shit if a few screens had auto-contrast ran on them. We already know it looks as good as anything else out there from previous material we saw with our eyes.

    Talk about scrabbling in the dirt for crumbs.

  • BadBoyBonner #122 5 years ago

    Halo 3 in-game is far uglier (lo-res and jaggy) than the linked screenshot.

    The in-game image compared to those released - everything looks the same (lighting etc) except for the FK ugly and shambolic 640p image with no antialiasing.

    That 1600 x 900 antialiased image - makes me think what could have been - instead of what actually is.

    When you heard Bungie slagging off anyone who didn't like it as being a moaning Tinfoil hat wearing tit.

    When they were here (EG towers) I asked them the question.

    15:21:57 PM

    With Bungie informing anyone with a tinfoil hat, that rendering without anti-aliasing at lower resolutions allows for better lighting - will Bungie be continuing their precedent with their next 360 games running at 480p upscaled to 720p but with even better lighting?

    They didn't seem able to answer it within the 38 minutes they had left.

    With Halo 2 you couldn’t quite believe what Bungie had managed to squeeze out of the Xbox.

    With Halo 3 you couldn’t quite believe what Bungie had not managed to squeeze out of the 360.

    Killzone 2 looks easily as good as Halo 3 - and at a higher res - which makes it more accomplished in my eyes.

    Will KZ2 play as well H3? Unlikely - but you never know.

  • kangarootoo #123 5 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    "You have a very large proportion of the posters here calling you an asshole, in a variety of colorful ways, and they are all correct. Doesn't that make you feel sad? It certainly should do."

    I hope you can see the irony in that.

  • Beano #124 5 years ago

    "The in-game image compared to those released - everything looks the same (lighting etc) except for the FK ugly and shambolic 640p image with no antialiasing. "

    Ehhh... no.

    But it's possible to take "in-game" screenshots (looks like the one posted) which are smoothed out and far better looking. Still retouched.... technically.

  • BadBoyBonner #125 5 years ago

    Beano - is that not exactly what I said?


    Everything looks the same = possible to take "in-game" screenshots

    Except for the FK ugly and shambolic 640p image with no antialiasing = which are smoothed out and far better looking

    Which means it has obviously been "Still (been) retouched.... technically. - which I am agreeing with.

    So

    Ehh....yeah - would have been more appropriate.

  • Whoisitthistime #126 5 years ago

    Gears still destroys anything graphically on the ps3, including LoLzone.

  • LittleVoice #127 5 years ago

    Post deleted at 18:03:32 01-02-2012

  • miiiguel #128 5 years ago

    This is even more pathetic than a group called "PS3 I Choose You (because we love you)".

    FFS, we've been shout at about how Killzone 2 graphics rapes Gears and shit, now this.
    Like I heard somewhere from a ex PS-Ultra: "we can't brag about PS3 too loud, better whisper, it'll backfire"

    Apologie: drop the copy/paste stuff, get it to Gamestop or something. Please ?
    Edited by miiiguel at 11/12/07 @ 10:33

  • BadBoyBonner #129 5 years ago

    Dizzy - show me the quote from Wikipedia – there isn’t one. Having a high I.Q. and being able to understand highbrow concepts does not prevent someone from having an opinion. Nor should it prompt a pompous attitude in response.

    The assertion I have made is correct – and it seems to pain you to acknowledge what you “the expert” said was wrong – to such a degree that you result to the use of derogatory comments, pertaining to the alleged use of Wikipedia.

    People are not born in to their work – they learn, then understand. I was not born a barrister; neither does being one preclude me from understanding rendering techniques.

    Next you’ll be telling me that anyone who is not a football manager of a premiership football team should never dare to have an opinion on football. Or anyone who is not a jockey should never voice an opinion on a horse race.

    The reason most techniques have avoided radiosity is that the long held belief was that it could not be completed at a speed that would facilitate its use in game engines.

    Just like when Carmack managed to give to the world unified shadow and lighting – it could be done – but most people could not implement a version of it that would facilitate it running on a PC – never mind the original Xbox.

    Most people thought real-time radiosity would be years away – clearly they were wrong.

    Clearly Epic also think like me – and that is the reason they have ensured that the first people to have cracked the problem of real-time radiosity are now on the Integrated Partner Program.

  • El_MUERkO #130 5 years ago

    LOUD NOISES CAUSE ANOTHER PAGE

  • El_MUERkO #131 5 years ago

    ... .... NOW!

  • Moz #132 5 years ago

    "Video of nearly all ps3 games show that it is the consoles hardware that produces these washd out colours. The retouching gives an image that no amount of tv adjusting can come close to."

    Have you ever played on a PS3? I have a PS3 and 360 hooked up to the same rig and the colour satuation looks just as good on both!!

  • Kryon #133 5 years ago

    This thread needs more PS3loling.

  • Kryon #134 5 years ago

    "gives less sharp borders and helps give a smoother appearance to objects. "

    Well that's good because judging by titles like VF5, the PS3 has serious problems anti-aliasing.

  • Salvia #135 5 years ago

    Such a gang of twats that have taken over the EG comments...

  • BadBoyBonner #136 5 years ago

    The colour issue of 360 v PS3 seems to be classic ATi v Nvidia.

    The difference is nominal - more so with judicious use of saturation (colour) and contrast on the ol’ TV menu.

    Obviously sometimes – the game engine itself tries to incorporate the muted hues as quoted above “in fact using a narrower range of colours gives less sharp borders and helps give a smoother appearance to objects” – which Assassins Creed certainly does but not necessarily to its benefit.

  • Dizzy #137 5 years ago

    "Next you’ll be telling me that anyone who is not a football manager of a premiership football team should never dare to have an opinion on football. Or anyone who is not a jockey should never voice an opinion on a horse race.
    "

    Dude... you are reading way too much in my post. What I mean is that Radiosity might be cool but there are newer techniques now that yield better results. In no way was I slagging you off... if you really are interested in serious computer graphics. Try this:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Global-...
    Edited by Dizzy at 11/12/07 @ 11:14

  • BadBoyBonner #138 5 years ago

    Dizzy thanks for the Amazon link but I already have that book online - try my link

    [link url=http://books.google.com/books?id=D0HMgNoDzRYC&pg=PA270&lpg=PA270&dq=advanced+global+illumination+unresolved+issues+in+photorealistic+rendering&source=web&ots=RSk3IKLSYU&sig=CJiffllLTLW5XG1VQwaRqtmsUqA#PPP1,M1
    ]http://books.google.com/books?id=D0HMgNo...[/link]

    You seem to be missing THE point - all the techniques you talk about - and covered in the book you have just recommended – are not better techniques.

    While they are newer, they are effectively speed hacks to try to give the same result – of global illumination – without actually globally illuminating the scene as radiosity lighting truly would.

    They are something that fakes the result – the book talks in length about probability of light reflection theory and waxes lyrical about the Monte Carlo technique.

    NEITHER TECHNIQUE IS NEEDED if you have radiosity modelled accurately. Just like you do not need to do anything at all to generate reflections in ray-tracing – it is part of it.

    The book you have quoted is all but obsolete as soon as true radiosity rendering has shown to be a success.

    N.B. To see that hip 80’s techniques are still a pipe dream in 2007 to run in real time on a home PC at a level that would support even an old game – Google “30 GHz” pc running real-time ray-traced Quake 3 or 3 PS3’s having their work cut out to render a single car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8

    edit : forgot to mention the book also states as a selling point "precomputed radiance transfer" I rest my case! lol
    Edited by BadBoyBonner at 11/12/07 @ 11:49

  • DrDamn #139 5 years ago

    @FarticusMaximus
    I think this is somewhat true, even in the days of the PS2 there was a noticable feel to colour palettes. There is also the factor of TV settings as round your place the settings in the component channel (360) are different to the HDMI channel (PS3). Motorstorm initially looked very washed out until we played with the settings.

    Back from your first comment ...
    "Name another game that has had retouched screenshots published."

    Plenty of Wii games (see the screen shots page and use view original) loads are at a resolution the Wii can't handle. (Nights is a recent example I spotted). For the 360 take a look at the Tom Clancy's Endwar shots here - linky. Shots in 1080p where some elements are nice and smooth but others are blocky. I suspect they have had a visit from Mr Photoshop. It always been done - original Xbox Amped got lambasted when a standard photoshop lens flare was pasted on top of a shot. This crap happens all the time and this is a non-story. Judge the games when you see then in the flesh and take *any* screenshot you see with a healthy dose of salt.

  • Salvia #140 5 years ago

    "I've seen you get labelled an asshole considerably more than myself, so you can climb down off that high horse of yours."

    How many more times must you be called an asshole to beat kangarootoo? I'll gladly contribute.

  • wyli #141 5 years ago

    I've just got to the end of the comments and forgotten what the article was about.

  • mooseman721 #142 5 years ago

    Not an issue, the games not even out, complain when it is. In the mean time, STFU.

  • BadBoyBonner #143 5 years ago

    I've just got to the end of the comments and forgotten what the article was about.

    Article - have KillZone 2's images been touched up's?

    Answer from comments

    Yes - just like almost every other game ever released - and that KZ2 is still graphically looking like one of the best console shooters yet.

  • BBIAJ #144 5 years ago

    That car running on three PStriples looks no better (worse infact), than those in Forza 2, PGR4, and TD:U.

    Or am I missing the point?

  • kangarootoo #145 5 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    "I've seen you get labelled an asshole considerably more than myself, so you can climb down off that high horse of yours."

    I've never really been one to believe what I read on the internet. Though maybe that is because the internet looks so small from up on this horse ;)

  • kangarootoo #146 5 years ago

    @Salvia

    "How many more times must you be called an asshole to beat kangarootoo? I'll gladly contribute."

    It has to be well into double digits I would imagine. We are talking about just on EG threads, right?

  • Apologie #147 5 years ago

    What was your reaction to winning the Special Commendation for Graphics?

    The Special Commendation is quite an honor as we weren't playable at the show, which I understood to be a requirement. I am particularly pleased that the team nevertheless got the recognition from the jury.

    Expectations for and skepticism about Killzone 2 were so high after the E3 2005 trailer. How confident were you going into E3 that your demo would deliver the goods. What was it like watching the reactions of first group of journalists at the Killzone 2 preview event, and when did you realize that you'd gotten them hooked on the demo?

    The vision that we set for the game through the E3 2005 trailer was purposefully ambitious yet achievable. But even though we always believed we could live up to our own benchmark, after a while it becomes hard to judge your own stuff. For me it was clear that our game was going to make quite an impact when we demoed the game to [Playstation studio chief] Phil Harrison and some of the marketing folks a few weeks before E3 and their first response was "Wow...what a rush!"

    The game looked great at E3. How much work is left to be done before launch, and when can we expect to hear some details about multiplayer?

    At E3 we wanted to show that we can live up to the promise of the original trailer. As for the second part of the question, we plan to follow up with more information on the game as additional details become available.

    [link url=http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/08/03/thanking-the-academy-hermen-hulst-on-killzone-2.aspx
    ]http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/a...[/link]

    ----------------------------------

    I wonder what do you guy's think about the team explanation regarding that CG trailer in 2005???

  • BadBoyBonner #148 5 years ago

    BBIAJ

    "That car running on three PStriples looks no better (worse infact), than those in Forza 2, PGR4, and TD:U."

    Or am I missing the point?

    Nope your not missing the point - crap model's will still be crap model's no matter what or how it is being rendered.

    And the other point is that the real-time performance of ray-tracing is not even close to rasterizing on the same hardware to the same level.

    Which I think the video supports quite well.

    That said - the below link and article (over a year old) may interest you - here is the first para

    Ray tracing is something of a holy grail in graphics processing. By using standard optics equations to calculate the paths that light takes in a scene, a 3D renderer can produce scenes that are much more realistic than those produced by the kind of raster graphics that powers all 3D games and most computer-animated movies. What puts ray tracing out of reach for most rendering applications is the sheer amount of processing power that it takes to determine the correct behavior of the billions of beams of light that can illuminate a large, complex scene. Fairly recently, it was thought by most graphics experts that while ray tracing might see more widespread use in computer animation, it would remain forever out of reach of real-time 3D rendering on standard PC hardware.

    [link url=http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060805-7430.html
    ]http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200...[/link]

    Another great article on ray-tracing in realtime (by the guy that did the Quake 3 RT RT) click below

    [link url=http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=334
    ]http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=334
    [/link]
    Edited by BadBoyBonner at 11/12/07 @ 13:55

  • BBIAJ #149 5 years ago

    *strokes chin*

    Hmmm, interesting, very interesting...

    Cheers for that!

  • Kryon #150 5 years ago

    @Apololol

    Hahahaaa, well that's an interesting link, according to that the 360 wins 5 categories:

    Best Online Multiplayer Game
    Best Fighting Game
    Best Role Playing Game
    Best Action/Adventure Game
    Best Console Game

    While the PS3 wins a 'special commendation' for graphics and one more award for LittleBig Planet (Lol these titles aren't even out yet)



  • Moz #151 5 years ago

    On the colour there will be times when the 360 has better colour due to the RSX not doing HDR and AA at the same time.

    Which means devs have to choose between a richer colour pallet or smoother edges.

    And from what i've played it looks like alot of the exclusive title are choosing HDR over AA, which seems to pay off alot of the time as you kind hind an amount of jaggies with other effects plus HD res helps alot. Rachet and Clank just looks amazing, though really need to go back to Kameo and Viva pinata to see how it compairs.

  • Dizzy #152 5 years ago

    "While they are newer, they are effectively speed hacks to try to give the same result – of global illumination – without actually globally illuminating the scene as radiosity lighting truly would. "

    Ha finally you get the point ;)

    Welcome to games programming... where hacks are 99% of the end result ;) Seriously.

    >The book you have quoted is all but obsolete as soon as true radiosity rendering has shown to be a success.

    BTW that book is written by a buddy of mine... if you wanne go into more detail I can give you his email :) But he is kinda cutting edge in the world of computer graphics :)
    Edited by Dizzy at 11/12/07 @ 14:26

  • BBIAJ #153 5 years ago

    Yet more C+P from the master of internet regurgitation, Apologie... *yawn*

  • Apologie #154 5 years ago

    [link url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170717
    ]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.p...[/link]

    Here are some comparison pics between the CG trailer in 2005, and the actual game play footage (in-engine) of the recent videos.... the game is actually very similar in quality, and anyone ceptic about it can have the oportunity/pleasure to confirm that Killzone 2 will be very, veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery close to that CG.
    It's an amazing achievement... and somehow supports the team explanation about the 2005 trailer.

    "Even the half-brained creature called Kryon should be able to see it now".
    Edited by Apologie at 11/12/07 @ 15:45

  • symbiote #155 5 years ago

    Is this thread still going? Allow me to synopsise:

    PS3 crew: big deal. It looks good. Can't wait.
    360 crew: You guys SUCK dudes you fucking loosers wawawawa lolololol

    Indeed.

  • BBIAJ #156 5 years ago

    @Apologie:

    Those comparisons are poles apart!

    F.E.A.R. looks better than KillZone 2...

  • Machiavellian #157 5 years ago

    @Apologie

    Forget the screen shots and look at the HD video itself and you see that the new trailer doesn't even come close to the original. lighting, detail, textures, everything is at such a high level in the CGI cut scene that the new one pale in comparison. Also this is a cut scene which is not representative of the actual ingame footage where the texture and detail fall off not only from the new cut scene but off the grid from the CGI cutscene.
    <a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/game/1668.html
    ">http://www.gametrailers.com/game/1668.html
    </a>

    The thing is Killzone 2 looks good there is no doubt about that but it doesn't look better IMHO then Assassin Creed or COD4. After watching the ingame footage, the gameplay looks average at best. The enemy AI doesn't make you think this will be a game above average. The color palette looks uneventful and dull and even from the cutscene trailer the game looks very washed out.
    Edited by Machiavellian at 11/12/07 @ 16:03

  • Kryon #158 5 years ago

    @Apolol

    "Even the half-brained creature called Kryon should be able to see it now"

    Well, that's half a brain more than you'll ever have sonny Jim. FACT!

  • Apologie #159 5 years ago

    farticusmaximus

    I only refer to graphics, nothing more..., and from what i've seen so far (purely videos), the game looks much closer to the 2005 CG trailer then i would ever expect... now, all the other things you mentioned "AI routines, physics modelling, gameplay, multiplayer etc"... are indeed yet to be seen, and my perception/opinion can change dramatically after i actually play it... " but for now, and after looking for the gameplay footage video, i must say that i'm particulary impressed with the physics and animations".

    http://ps3.ign.com/articles/815/815430p1...
    Edited by Apologie at 11/12/07 @ 19:43

  • Kryon #160 5 years ago

    "and my perception/opinion can change dramatically after i actually play it"

    No Apolol, you see, that's how normal people do things, your opinion will not change after playing it (even if the game is below par like Heavenly Sword and Resistance). Just like the whole COD4 discussion we had, even after a thousand posts from different people telling you that you were wrong (i.e. the game is roughly on par on both systems but possibly regarded as slightly better on the 360), EG said as much and so does GameRankings but even after all that, you STILL cling to the strange idea that the PS3 version is teh bestest (although you could give no valid reasons as to why it supposedly is)...So no, your opinions on games are formed by which system they happen to be on, not the game itself...

  • Hughes. #161 5 years ago

    I remeber being referred to this image a great deal by fans of another FPS in the months befoire it launched. Can someone remind me if H3 ran at 2560 x 1440 with perfect anti-aliasing?

  • smelly #162 5 years ago

    NEWS FLASH:

    Most game screenshots are "touched up" (especially if they're in development)

  • Kryon #163 5 years ago

    I don't think Bungie ever claimed H3 would run at 2560 x 1440 with perfect anti-aliasing, if you listen to fanboys then that's really your problem imo... It's hardly the same as the actual devs (in this case Guerrilla) getting rumbled and having to admit that they purposely 'slightly touched up and polished' supposed in-game footage...

  • smelly #164 5 years ago

    @Hughes.: LMAO!

    Well done! :-)

  • presbyterrorion #165 5 years ago

    Whether it's common practice or not. Guerilla should have known better given what happened, by now. That's just asking for trouble.

  • Turambar #166 5 years ago

    "I don't think Bungie ever claimed H3 would run at 2560 x 1440 with perfect anti-aliasing, if you listen to fanboys then that's really your problem imo... It's hardly the same as the actual devs (in this case Guerrilla) getting rumbled and having to admit that they purposely 'slightly touched up and polished' supposed in-game footage..."

    So it's okay to publish touched up screenshots as long as nobody calls you on and you publicly admit it?

  • DrDamn #167 5 years ago

    @Kyron
    "It's hardly the same as the actual devs (in this case Guerrilla) getting rumbled and having to admit that they purposely 'slightly touched up and polished' supposed in-game footage..."

    What like Amped? Now which studio was that again?

    linky

    Give it up, this sort of thing is so common with the vast majority of games.

  • Kryon #168 5 years ago

    @Turambar

    As far as I can recall, Bungie never stated that the screenshot that Hughes linked to was actual in-game footage running as it would on a 360 (correct me if I'm wrong)...

    Besides, you make out like Guerrilla deserve praise for admitting the 'extra polish'? C-mon, it's so obvious they could hardly deny it...

    @DrDamn

    I never claimed that Guerrilla was the only dev to ever touch up a screenshot, although, I'd like to see some proof that this is "so common with the vast majority of games."

    Maybe it is but I can think of plenty of screenshots that I've seen which look untouched and not many that are as obviously different as this KZ2 mock up.

  • Yaz #169 5 years ago

    "What like Amped? Now which studio was that again?"

    To be fair, they admitted it was a mistake at the time. It was suppose to show how they expected the game to look when it was finished and was suppose to be labelled as concept art (or something like that). But unfortunately, it got included with genuine screenshots from the game, hence the confusion.

    To others here, game screens at resolutions much higher than the actual game are obviously not meant to be the actual resolution of the game. :)

    Some time ago, a dev said (I can't remember who it was) that the reason they release such high resolution screens is really for print purposes. On paper (i.e. in game magazines), screenshots of games at their default resolutions tend to look much worse than they do on screen, especially when the image (or part of it) is blown up to a large size for use in a feature or for the magazine cover. Hence such screens are not meant to represent the game resolution, but simply to look good in print (hence magazines request them).

  • DrDamn #170 5 years ago

    @Kyron
    "Maybe it is but I can think of plenty of screenshots that I've seen which look untouched and not many that are as obviously different as this KZ2 mock up."

    Would it be so obvious if you hadn't seen the other ones? It's only by comparison that some editting is obvious. Would you have spotted it if there wasn't a "news" story about it? Take a look through recent screens. Condemned 2 - screens look a bit smooth. Endwar - obvious mock ups where resolution of different objects in the screen are different. Look hard enough you can see it all over the place.

  • Kryon #171 5 years ago

    @DrDamn

    Fair play, I'm sure it does go on more than certain devs would like to admit but that doesn't mean all of them are up to it and I don't know if it's fair to make a sweeping statement like "the vast majority" purposely mislead the public by pretending their "in-game" footage is teh real when it's clearly not (obviously Guerrilla are OK with this kind of stunt) but you (or I) have no real idea of what percentage of devs put out shoddy mock ups (unless it's really obvious, like KZ2 or indeed intended for print as Yaz pointed out in regards to the Halo shot)
    Edited by Kryon at 12/12/07 @ 12:24

  • Kryon #172 5 years ago

    "Would it be so obvious if you hadn't seen the other ones?"

    Yes, once the game was out and people actually had played it, I'm pretty sure people would start to notice it... It isn't just the contrast that's been changed after all...