Killzone 2 Comments by Dan Whitehead

This has been the least foaming PS3 exclusive thread I have seen to date!

@Moonprince

Liar. Whats you gamertag then?

I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that.

I'm afraid keeping the fingers crossed won't be enough. Register in the GG forums and be VERY vocal about it.

re This hard-on for co-op amongst internet gaming denizens.

I just don't get it. What happened to the days when gamers were happy with 1p games? As an older gamer now its a bit more difficult for me to find time for me and a friend to get online (or in a room) and game together for a few hours. Life just gets in the way. I'm more than happy for GG to have maximised this for 1p gaming. Don't destroy a game just because theres no co-op, is it really the end of the world that you can't? Would rather have it shoe-horned in to the detriment of the 1p game? Does any of this bollocks I'm typing actually matter or will I get destroyed by co-op nutjobs?

Also, did I notice some grudging postivity in the article from EG? Don't worry guys, I won't tell anyone how much you enjoy a PS3 game. Watch it come #1 in the 2009 GOTY or something (this is supposition not a prediction internerds) and read all the staff comments saying "Well I can kinda see why people voted for it but its not mine because X,Y,Z"

*edited because I can't type for shit today

You need to have a drop in drop out co-op really. Having played Left 4 Dead, I can say co-op can be amazing fun, although that is a game that is completely designed around co-op.

@YobRenoops

Obviously different people get different things from a game, but I always play a game through single player then almost immediately replay it co-op, as playing co-op often gives a very different experience.

For example, I've played the first Halo maybe 8 times single player. Once normal, couple times heroic, rest legendary. However I've played it over 20 times through in co-op, always legendary. It's a whole different ballgame and can really add legs to the game.

Even typing that has got me jonesing for 'assault on the control room' on co-op legendary ....

farticus:
"It's highly stylised whereas MGS has a much more traditional aesthetic. "

Surely this is entirely the wrong way round.
MGS is very stylised, while Gears is very very traditional, right back to the early days of shot-em-ups.
Bald space marines with big metal guns and a derelict cityscape/underground mines etc.

I've played plenty of FPS and TPSs that have very similar art styles many times before.

The MGS series, on the other hand, are very much their own thing, and have an art style that is unique and very much down to taste.


EDIT: Some screenshots of pre-Gears 1 games that look very close to the art style of Gears:

Quake 4

http://www.zeden.net/img/2004-09/quake4_...

Doom 3
http://www.pathguy.com/doom_3.jpg

Far Cry
http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_modul...

Fear
http://www.tweakguides.com/images/FEAR_1...

Not to mention the entire Unreal series looking virtually the same as each other, and the fact that Unreal Tourney 3 looks identical to gears 1 and 2.

'Unique art style' indeed.


EDIT: And eurogamer mods, if you're going to abitrarily delete accounts, the least you can do is send a PM to explain why so we can appeal. Just simply removing ones entire posting history and restricting them form posting is entirely cuntish and unprofessional.

BartonFink :

I like, and seems that I'm not the only guy playing UT III wih keyboard and mouse in PS3, taking in consideration the amount of players that I usually find in my matches. You can see some of my matches in youtube (in maps like Deck, Arsenal, Sactuary, Defiance, Heat Ray or Sentinel, my nick in yt is buran01 and Buran in PSN).

The controls with k+m are much more faster, responsive, and intuitive. I can beat the bots in "masterful" (6/8 grade in UT3) with k+m, but with pad I can barely survive against the A.I. in 4/8 grade of dificulty. I have both PS3 and 360 (only Halo 3 and SC IV in this one) and I leave from play Halo 3 after finish the campaign: even with the 360 pad -which is slighty better to play shooters than the Sixaxis- the experience was unnatural and unergonomic, so online matches had little interest under this type of controls -the same with Resistance and BF: Bad Company-.

Part of my succes playing k+m UT III in PS3 is because I have an elevable center table in my living room, that fits perfectly in front of my 46", let me playing with the same confort as in my desktop but using a much bigger (1080p) display.

@ YobRenoops

I too couldn't give a flying fuck about co-op but there seem to be a large group of people who rely on it for some strange reason. Oh well, if they refuse to buy a game because it doesn't have co-op then it's their loss. No MGS(1-4), Half-Life (including sequels and mods), Crysis, Doom 3, Quake 4, Unreal (including Tournaments), Dead Space, Uncharted, GTA4, Bioshock, COD... the list goes on.

Actually, anyone who says "no co-op no sale" is full of shit. If they have never bought/enjoyed any of the above games any way, shape or form, what the fuck are they doing on this site?

I hope KZ2 has a solid and entertaining single player campaign. Having been in 2 of the 3 KZ2 beta phases, I already know I prefer it's multiplayer to the likes of COD4 and I have no intention of wasting money on COD:WAW.

@ farticusmaximus

I think UT3 on the PC wasn't as popular as previous UT games mainly because it had a shit, almost non-existent single player campaign (makes me wonder if UT3 was sacrificed for GOW2). The multiplayer was ok and it recaptured the movement and feel of UT99 but UT2004 is a much better game in every way. I think Epic said that most people who bought UT2003/4 didn't even play online which means that they missed out on a great multiplayer experience.

At this very moment in time, there are nearly (a difference of less than 10people) 3x as many people playing UT2004 online than UT3.

@The_vorlon_man

I think maybe you are confusing the subject matter and the artisic style.

Quake 4, Doom 3, Far Cry and Fear look like Gears, eh?

I'd suggest actually playing all these games rather than picking vaguely similar elements from stills. You will find that Gears looks absolutely nothing like any of these games. The only game that look anything like Gears is, not surprisingly, UT3.

@chessboxer

'No co-op no sale' is probably a bit OTT, but it could be the decider between buying or renting for some people. I know that well over half the games I own I wouldnt have bought if they didnt have some form of local multiplayer.

That's the reason I would never touch burnout paradise with a bargepole. It's simply not burnout without split-screen road rage.

I guess it's a hard balancing act with this type of game. CoD was a success because of it's online multiplayer, Halo 1 for it's local co-op, Timesplitters for local deathmatch.

It's too early to tell what KZ's strength will be, and whether the effort of developing co-op will be worth the extra players it draws in.

"I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that."
----------

Am I the only one who can't stand the fact that because of the prevalence of online users, console developers now find it acceptable to release an unfinished game and then patch it at a later date?

I know, yes, there is an upside to allowing developers to fix problems that may have been 'missed' during development, but too many executives, BODs and producers have bonuses attached to release dates for this to be a positive thing overall.

This is exactly why I avoid PC gaming.

"retbra, excellent post. it's nice to know some here have a technical understanding of the PS3. "

i'm sure there are plenty here with a good understanding of computer science (i know so many fellow developers who also play game) but quite a few of us gave up trying to give sensible technical responses on forums years ago after they fell on deaf ears for the thousandth time.

@YobRenoops
There is certainly some to be said for not including co-op. It does free you up to produce a more focused single player game. Not all games should have co-op as it doesn't always work or will take something away from the single player experience. It's the same with online / multiplayer - I don't like seeing games suffer because the dev has had to shoe horn in half assed multiplayer to keep the reviewers happy and not give them a reason to deduct points. I'd rather see the effort put in to the single player.

Not to say I don't appreciate multiplayer or co-op - it's just there is room and reason for some games not to include it. For example whilst I fully appreciated the great experience that was co-op in Gears I think it did have a small but notable affect on the single player campaign - DomAI .

farticusmaximus:

My point was to illustrate that there are plenty of game that are broadly similar basis that defines the art style in Gears and Gears 2, and I proved that eloquently.

You have done absolutely nothing to indicate how you came to the conclusion that MGS is less stylised in it's art direction, despite the evidence pointing to the polar opposite.

I suggest you take off your Green tinted spectacles and start actually looking at games without your bias for a change.

@The_vorlon_man

We seem to have some sensible discussion going on here so I suggest you find somewhere else to pick a fight.

@ farticus

you will be pleased to know Criterion are releasing the PartyPack DLC in the coming months...

although I'm unsure of splitscreen play on it... i think it could all be pass the controller and beat the other person game play...

@TheRook21

Highly unlikely that it's splitscreen, as the devs have stated several times that the streaming technology won't allow two locations to stream at once and would basically require an engine rewrite. Who knows though, maybe restrictions on the HDD usage have changed since the NXE, making dual streaming possible...?

I would retract every scathing comment I've ever made about paradise, and do a special happy dance if they managed to find a workaround though as the game engine really is top notch and the handling is just right.

l see that farticusmaximus is still desperately trying to downplay KZ2 by comparisons to inferior games.
blindest xbox360 fanbaby I ever saw.

@YobRenoops

"As an older gamer now its a bit more difficult for me to find time for me and a friend to get online (or in a room) and game together for a few hours. Life just gets in the way."

I know this might seem a little odd on a gaming site but some of us 'older' chaps actually co-habit with *gasp* females! My point being that if a game like this does not have a co-op/split-screen option, it means the Mrs will sit there and whinge until I stop playing and let her watch Emmerdale. Whereas games like Gears/Vegas/Resistance which do offer split-screen mean we can play happily together and not watch Emmerdale, this is why it is important!

@chessboxer

You completely miss the point, of course there are great single player games but co-op has become 'expected' within this genre of console game, imagine they released the next Tekken or VF as one player only games, it would suck, as does KZ2 for the same reason. I enjoy a good JRPG or any other single player experience when I have time to myself, but I also like to use my consoles as social devices to enjoy with other people, I guess split-screen is only important to those who actually have a friend/girlfriend etc to play with...What I'm trying to say is, don't be such a hermit.

farticusmaximus:

what a wonderfully well thought out response. You clearly took a long time over that, and wow, what a argument winner here?!

Seriously, you are the worst kind of fanboy on this site - blinkered.

"Whereas games like Gears/Vegas/Resistance which do offer split-screen mean we can play happily together and not watch Emmerdale, this is why it is important for me!"

/fixed

My girlfriend doesn't touch the PS3 with a barge pole, unless it is to play DVDs and Blu-Rays. Not even LBP got love from her. She does like her Wii though, but also in small bursts.

And I've played R:FoM's co-op exactly twice. It was amusing but if it hadn't been included I wouldn't have missed it. I haven't played R2's co-op at all and am unlikely to do so ever. For me co-op in general is a worthless feature. Do appreciate that others will feel differently about it though.

Les, your little 'fixed' joke is a bit pointless, it's pretty obvious my post was that of my own opinion, and not fact. Of course different things are important to different people but there is no reason an optional split-screen/co-op mode should detract from a single player experience (as long as the devs are competent), that would keep everybody happy. It is pretty backward in this day and age to 'forget' to include such a commonly expected feature in a console shooter. At the end of the day, it's no skin off my nose, it just means KZ2 won't appeal to as many people or sell as well as it could have done...

I'm personally not a shooter fan, never have been, the only reason I buy them is because they offer a chance for me to play alongside a friend or the Mrs. It was a poor decision to exclude what has become a standard feature of the genre. The Wii (AKA the party game machine) is proof in itself that a hell of a lot of people enjoy a bit of social interaction with their gaming, Guerrilla would have done well to realise this.

SHARXTREME:

Of course, any fanboy worth their salt will try to downplay any important games on the competition's console.
He wont even enter into a sensible debate when someone responds to his oftentimes absurd comments either.

@SHARXTREME

You sir are a slimy hypocrite. You said you were putting me on ignore, now go hit that ignore button you stupid trolling fanboy.

@Vorlon

You came back with a bunch of completely unrelated screenshots which may have a passing resemblance within some elements but ultimately look absolutely nothing like Gears.

You are clearly spoiling for a fight thinking I am somehow belittling either KZ2 or MGS, which if you had seen through your red mist of fanboy rage you would find I am not.

When you present a coherent argument I'll listen but I'm not going to pointlessly bicker with you for no reason. It's not worth my time. Bye now.

farticus:

"You are clearly spoiling for a fight thinking I am somehow belittling either KZ2 or MGS, which if you had seen through your red mist of fanboy rage you would find I am not.

When you present a coherent argument I'll listen but I'm not going to pointlessly bicker with you for no reason. It's not worth my time. Bye now."

Oh quite the contrary, I simply wish to address your statement.

You said this, just up there ^^^
"The reason Gears doesnt win awards for visuals is because the art direction is not to everyone's taste and rather than judge on a technical level most people look at Gears and dismiss it because of the 'gay space marines', not grasping the self-parody that is prevailant throught the game. It's highly stylised whereas MGS has a much more traditional aesthetic. "

I gave examples of similar looking games to Gears (Gay space marines in coridors and outside, bald marines, etc).
You are specifically saying that Gears does not win visuals awards because it has a unique style, compared to MGS which you consider more traditional.

My examples, Doom, Quake 3, Fear, etc. proved this wrong, that Gears is far more traditional - (how else would they, as you say, self parody?), and yet you wilfully chose to ignore that, instead calling names and being very childish about it.

You also said:
"I will agree that the in-engine cutscenes in MGS are the most polished I've seen in any game, but the actual gameplay graphics, whilst competant are nothing special."

Which is also dismissive of MGSs aesthetics.

You also dismissed KZ2 as being a 'bit grey and samey" for your taste. , and 'on a par with gears.... you also prepared a list of reasons why you will hate it when you get to play it.

Do you have the memory of a fish? Are you 15 in reality?

You seem to be quite prepared to make statements, without ever being prepared to back them up.

You may find this hard ot understand, Farty, but sometimes, just sometimes, you are too far up your own backside to even begin to enter normal debate when it comes to your hated PS3.

trebell, i'm sorry but when it's well documented PS3 has an exotic architecture and will take time to understand, i find it hard to believe "devs" that rush in to these forums making outlandish claims against the system. i'm not saying the sytem is perfect but it certainly isn't as incapable as some "devs" here would like us to believe. this leads me to believe that more here, whether they be devs or not, don't understand the system's architecture and how to exploit it. it's why i found retibra's measured comments informed and worth appreciating, unlike say someone like Calgon who clearly hasn't got a clue.

@The_vorlon_man

Once again you completely missed the point and went off at a tangent.

I don't know if it's even possible to get you to understand the argument, but I'll try again.

Consider a painting of a bowl of fruit. There are 2 primary elements at play in the painting.

One is the subject matter, the bowl of fruit itself. Most people know what a bowl of fruit looks like, it appears in quite a few places in our lives.

The other element is the style in which the bowl of fruit is painted. This can range from a cubist/expressionist 'interpretation' to an almost photorealistic painting.

What you have given as examples are subject matter. Of course there are loads of games with space marines in them. KZ2 has space marines in it.

There examples you have given do not have an art style anything like Gears whatsoever.

However there are plenty of games with an art style like MGS as it's gone for the 'realistic' approach.

Before you reply with 'but... but teh bossez!', that is subject matter, not artistic style.

I hope that managed to penetrate your thick skull. I somehow doubt you'll be able to resist the urge to make yourself sound even more stupid by replying with something along the lines of 'teh fanboyz, teh bias, teh blinkorz' though.

I'd like nothing more than to be proved wrong by you not replying at all. Ever.

Yeah, the 'fixed' joke was a bit lame. My bad.

"Of course different things are important to different people but there is no reason an optional split-screen/co-op mode should detract from a single player experience (as long as the devs are competent), that would keep everybody happy."

Even if the devs are competent, the feature still has an associated cost. Keeping everybody happy is not always the most beneficial thing to do from a cost/benefit perspective.

Social interaction in gaming is important but TBH I think on sites like these the importance of splitscreen co-op campaigns specifically is significantly exaggerated. Wii's success for example points in a different direction.

"Wii's success for example points in a different direction."

WFT? The Wii still exists for one reason only. Party games designed for the sole purpose of social interaction. It would have died within months of release without them.

fartucus, by way of colonoscopy:

"I'd like nothing more than to be proved wrong by you not replying at all. Ever. "

Oh, please, you havent proven anything.

"What you have given as examples are subject matter. Of course there are loads of games with space marines in them. KZ2 has space marines in it. "

The argument specifically was that Gears was more arty/unique than MGS.

I gave broad examples of why this was not true. Even screenshots of games that look very similar in style (grey, use of lighting, Space marines). I've even played games with derelict cityscapes before, beleive it or not.

Stating something does not make it fact, farticus. I didnt merely say 'teh space marines!!zes!', and provided the screenshots, particularly Quake 4 and Doom 3, to demonstrate, that previous games are closer to Gears than any game is to MGS.

MGS is anything BUT photorealistic, and had you spent anything but a passing second glancing at screenshots of it, you would know this.

Heck, one can easily see that even Splinter Cell looks absolutely nothing like MGS too, as that game most certainly goes for photorealism, and in fact, far closer in style to Gears!.

MGS, on the other hand, has a unique art direction - the colouring, the styling of the characters, the way things move, and of course the weopenary, the cinematography in the cutscenes, and so forth. It's as far removed from the photo-realism of games like GRAW and Rainbow 6 as you can get.

Gears is closer to it's heritage than you suggest, and MGS is far less a 'photorealistic' game. One of the ways Kojima productions managed to make the game look so good in MGS2 was their clever use of colour and styling the game to make it very much it's own thing.

Gears is far more of a cookie cutter game than MGS ever was or is, and you surely must know that - but then you have a bone and you wont let go of it will you.

But since you dont believe you'll ever be proven wrong, I doubt anything anyone ever says, short of bashing you over the head with a copy of MGS4 repeatedly, will make any difference.

I suppose you think a spade is a shovel and that the pope shits in the woods eh?

You truly are the most green-specced of Fanboys this forum has ever known, and you just like provoking people into arguments so you can get your rocks off.

@The_vorlon_man

Thanks for the truly hilarious post, really brightened up my morning. xD

I'd suggest a trip to specsavers, you need it.

farticusmaximus:
Clearly you live in Bizarro-world, and if Spec-savers is where you get your prescription from, then I'd strongly suggest looking at Dolland and Aitchison :-)

muscleblade: 'Might be the second "killer app" for the PS3 imo.'

Woah.

The PS3 has a killer app?

@TheComedian

Oh yes the PS3 haslots of killer apps.

Off the top of my head I can think of over 20 games where you can kill people. Virtually, of course.

By all accounts there will be a LOT of killing in KZ2.

A. LOT.

@BritishBlue

I'm quite sure you are right, but instead of shooting me and getting it over with they would probably try to bore me to death with Sony propaganda.

farticusmaximus:

As opposed to being bored to death by XBOT propoganda?

nuff said

me and my brother used to play the 1st killzone against each other split screen which was really fun, shame this doesnt have it

other than that looking to be a great game, looking forward to it! :D

Who wants to bet that this game will get a Eurogamer 8/10?

Also, that link was pure propaganda.

Still think this is going to be good though - co-op is a missed opportunity however, one of the main reasons I buy console games.

Its okay if the game is tough but what's really important is whether it loads you to your laast checkpoint fast after you die.

"Who wants to bet that this game will get a Eurogamer 8/10?"

Given some of EGs reviews last year I'd take a 7 or 8/10 as a glowing recommendation :)

guerilla said they wud put co-op in if ppl wanted it. judging by the reports of the co-op in resistance and cod5 co-op is a must for any shooter these days. if one thing is going to let this game down (especially in the review scores) its gonna be the lack of co-op! still gonna buy it tho, tired of cod4 and 5 a bit samey now to me... roll on feb 25th!!!

Sounds great, I hope it's as tough as nails.

"short, controlled bursts"?

Someone at EG has been watching too much Aliens!

Come on, even I can do better than that...stop ripping others off and write in your own words. Pathetic!