Killzone 2 Comments by Dan Whitehead

As a side note.
since this game has been in development for so long now, and much of that time spent in R&D. Could we see the tool set and engine (I presume they are using a custom made one) finding its way to other studios, first party and third? I understand that EA are fazing in the PS3 as lead platform for their games. could be interesting.

"I understand that EA are fazing in the PS3 as lead platform for their games."

Really? I must have missed that memo... was it addressed to bullsh*t?

"Really? I must have missed that memo... was it addressed to bullsh*t? "

I'm fairly sure I read that on this site, maybe in one of 'head to head' articles.

@ VandelayIndustries.

Wholesale adoption of tools & tech would be very unlikely due to it being highly tailored to the KZ project, though it would be possible to take some aspects of the pipeline and integrate it elsewhere, also take on board specific technical solutions and use them elsewhere. Used to be the case that Sony studios would have tech meetings twice a year to demo key technology with the aim of creating a shared knowledge base. Don't know if that's still happening though. Guerrilla were always key contributors to these, and an all round excellent bunch of guys.

(edit)

@ DrRobotnik
I believe the PS3 being lead platform is true, as it's supposedly easier to port PS3 --> 360 than the other way round.

@DrRobotnik

It's true apparently they are making the PS3 the lead platform for most of EA's games. There was an article on eurogamer a few months ago about it

retard234 wrote
Fuck of casual gamers

Is that the correct collective noun?

@SeesThroughAll

I guess that's why the development time for this title has been a while too as i can imagine it has taken the developers a good deal of time to work out how to get the best out of the PS3 as a whole (SPU and GPU).

Shows what a talented bunch they are though by the looks of this game :)

I want this game NOW!

Am loving the fight-inch-by-inch approach in Resistance 2, where you get punished for trying to be too gungho, so will defo love this.

@ teabagger

With all that time, money and energy spent it would seem a terrible waste not to get that tech out to as many studios as possible, given the exceptional results that GGs have achieved, graphically at least.

Good to know.

Can't wait to get my hands on KZ2.

Played it at the expo in London last year and was very impressed :)


Also read the recent OXM review and it sounded like there was a good few alternative enviroments, not just the ones we've seen.

"@DrRobotnik

It's true apparently they are making the PS3 the lead platform for most of EA's games. There was an article on eurogamer a few months ago about it"


Then my apologies - I take back my needlessly sarcastic comment!

If it is easier to port from PS3 to 360, at least both consoles will benefit from solid versions of games. Right now the PS3 gets a raw deal.

"Frankly, that's your personal opinion. Rainbow Six Vegas 1 on the 360 was ace imo and didn't lack any subtelty or flow whatsoever. I couldn't give a toss either about how many PS3s this will shift or not, as long as it will be a satisfactory gaming experience for me personally. And if it'll turn out a niche product, all the better. It's not like the market is exactly lacking dumbed down shooters with 'mass appeal'."

Umm, yes it is because this is a forum and that's all ANY of us have to offer, our own opinion. Vegas is a very good game but it's NOT a hardcore tactical shooter, not really. The rainbow six games on the PC were but Vegas isn't. Oh, and that's just my opinion as well, yours may differ and that's how it should be. God, how depressing would it be if we all agreed on everything all the time?

As for how many PS3's this will shift, I really don't care about it personally. I have a PS3 and 360 (and did have a Wii for a year and a bit) and think all the fanboy nonsense is, well, nonsense. However this damn thing is being hyped up all over the place as the killer blow the PS3 needs to ascend to godhood and decimate all that stand before it 'neath it's mighty tread so now the game has to live with those expectations and it's a fair topic for discussion. Doubly so considering that same expectation was what caused a lot of the backlash to Killzone 1 when it was expected to be a Halo killer...

@VandelayIndustries.

Yeah, the problem is simply that in order to make large bits of tech work on another existing project often requires so much adoption as to make it more work than simply doing your own stuff from scratch. It also raises issues of support; is it the responsibility of e.g, Guerrilla, to provide support to other studios that it provides tech to? What happens when Guerrilla are in crunch and can't, leaving the other studio struggling and possibly failing deadlines as a result?

Generally speaking, it boils down to a lack of centrality. I was always suprised that there was never a real drive to have a centralised engine team that basically did the 'Sony Unreal Engine'. The reality is that the studios all work fairly independantly. There are key tech groups that work on shared tech and also a bunch of individuals that tried to encourage sharing of tools & tech, but projects are not required to take on board any of this. Essentially you can only get so far based on good relationships between like-minded and progressive individuals in the middle of the hierarchy, their effectiveness is always going to be limited until a high-up directive forces the issue. Working co-operatively with other studios/projects is often seen by producers as time not being spent on their project, and so as soon as time became tight it became impossible to fulfil commitments to work and share with others. The short sighted approach always seemed to win the day.

It looks awesome and even tho I thought the first was crap I'll get KZ2 (I was sold when I saw it playing at the EG Expo), but its getting really hard to get excited about FPS's anymore - except Riddick and MW2 of course.

Good article Dan, thanks.

Got 100% off the official US playstation mag.

retibra, so you're telling me that sony exclusives are designed to use the PS3's strengths and avoid it's weaknesses?

No way...

Technically looks closer to Crysis and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. millestones than the other games in the actual gen of consoles.

Of course, can't beat CryEngine 2.0 or X-Ray Engine, but taking in consideration how low is the power of the 24 ALUs RSX or the 64 ALUs in Xenos compared to the 240-800 ALUs monsters from the cheap HD 4850, the succes of the task is impressive.

About the gameplay, the online mp seems more similar to COD4/WaW tahn any other shooter: unlockable items, ranks, classes and configurable perks... in a 32 player enviroments that can make your eyes bleed if you play again in another console shooters. The campaign looks like a futuristicf COD 4 without the eternally-dumb-ass-infinite-respawn of mental enemies.

So, probably this will be a blockbuster in both sales, gameplay and metacritic scores. The main complain to me is the lack of keyboard and controls; UT III is still the only game in PS3 with this k+m support and the only one shooter that I play consistently in PS3. Pads are no designet to play fps, mouses are. I can't undertand why the other shooters don't follow the way of Epic in PS3.

From reading the article this really does sound great. Cannot wait to get my hands on it.
Roll on Feb \o/

@Buran - your post sounded like a whole mess of PC mouse+kb elitist twaddle.

PS3 controller does just fine at FPS but it's no 360 controller though (sixaxis sticks are still in the wrong place.)

Who the hell would want to use a mouse+kb on a console.

retibra, good post.

Was lucky enough to get a place in the beta for this and have been lost since it finished

I disagree that it isnt like cod4 sure its more tactical but your cod4 skills will serve you well when you first start off online

I agree with my fellow beta testers post that it shits on cod4 though , used to go back and enjoy some cod now and again because it was a class game but after killzone beta it just doesn't cut it anymore

Never bothered to preorder a game in my life but have done for this

See you all on the battlefield

Yeah cheers retibra, interesting post.

I love reading the techie talk. Even though I don't have a complete grasp of it, deep down in my brain my geek gland is saying

"that's so fucking cool..."

Good to see its heading to the tactical side of things. I didnt buy the last installment of CoD and I hope this can fill my FPS void...although CoD3 is still very enjoyable, mainly because it also actually requires tactics to be successful at it.

Sharkxtreme: "goes more intensive all SPEs kick in, and that highest load, when there is massive interaction on screen, DIDN'T EXCEED 60%!"

I'm trully excited about this. Finally a game engine to take advantage of the PS3 Hardware (the Unreal Engine has had problems). I do believe that the KZ2 Engine will be used in future games. Just as an aside, the new Drake's Fortune is apparently using far, far more of the PS3 processing power too. Can't wait.

El-Dev, retibra has taken the time to put together a well written post and you're being a dick about it because of... what exactly

Because of what indeed!

Great post, retribra!

On a sidenote, I'm also looking very much forward to this game. Hell, I might even make my first pre-order ever :o But damn it can be frustrating to read about this game, and any other exclusive. What is it that makes console and gaming such a "go-to place" for trolls and fanboys? :o I read more retarded comments on any games forum than I do anywhere else, and when it has to do with something that is exclusively on either PS3 or XBOX360 it gets even worse. Luckily EuroGamer has a lot of good posts too, like retribra's earlier, and a lot of other posts in this thread too - but there's always someone like El-Dev too, always.

100 Playstation: The Official Magazine (US)

"It's true that Killzone 2 is filled with moments that can handily be described as inspiring awe. Each scene is incredibly well detailed, from the gaps in jerry-rigged cover points letting you sneak in a killing headshot to scarred and scratched textures, the planet feels entirely believeable... Without a doubt Killzone fans, action and shooter fans of any stripe will instantly tag this sequel as a powerful contender for best game of 2009. "


I think Eurogamer will give it a 7/10. At least a few points up compared to the first killzone then.

Sorry to echo so many others but, no co-op/split screen, no fucking way. What a load of shit. Total disappointment, I was actually looking forward to this, God knows why as the first one wasn't exactly great....I'll stick with Gears of War, thanks.

BartonFink wrote : "sixaxis sticks are in wrong place"

HAHAHAHA
If I remember correctly, Playstation controllers are over ten years on market. I played my first 2 playstation FPS's, MOH and MOH: UNDERGROUND back in 2000 on PSone with dualshock1. Never had problem with it, because my hands are still symmetric:)
DS3 and SIXAXIS are same, and numerous 3rd party controllers, from Logitech and others, for PC, PS1, PS2, PS3 have same sticks layout as original dualshock1 for PS1.
SO, because most people have symmetrical hands and because of approx. 500 mill. of playstation-like controllers on market - xbox360 controller's sticks are in wrong place:)
you act like xbox360 is first console ever made FFS.

@Sharxtreme

You love Playstation, we get it, now give it a rest.

As a long time gamer on rival consoles (DC, XBox, GC, etc.) I've got to say, SHARXTREME, Bartonfink's right. The PS pads have the sticks in a very uncomfortable place. Generally tradition for controllers since the 80s has been to have the main directional control (pad/stick) under the left thumb, and the buttons symmetrical with that on the right hand side. The PS pads have sticks added as an afterthought, a design which has continued even now that sticks are the PRIMARY control mechanism, rather than an underused option. Sony need to catch up with this fact sometime.




....and learn how to make good triggers, too. Those L2 and R2 buttons are always really awkward.

"No co-op, off or online. Hardly keeping up the competition here. "

That's, like, so 1990s ...

The sticks on the PS pad are in an alright position imo, its the resistance they offer. One thing I liked about the XB sticks was that they were firmer. Although people said the DS3 sticks are slightly different to the sixaxis ones (which they are) and I'm not having any probs being precise with them.

In fact I had a go on a 360 at chrimbo and found the sticks a bit weird, purely because of what I'm used to. Still as I say, Halo 2 plus XB pad equalled great times for me back in the day.

It's all about what you get used to, ain't it? Both the XBOX360 and PS3 serve their purpose, but you of course prefer the one you get most used to. I like the DS3 a lot, and have a friend who thinks the XBOX360 pad is the greatest thing invented in modern gaming, yet when I play at his place, I just can't get used to the difference - both in button placement and "handling".

..and learn how to make good triggers, too. Those L2 and R2 buttons are always really awkward.
They're not triggers though are they, they're supposed used for something thats pressure sensitive (accelerating / braking etc).
Im still not sure why a lot of people use l2 / r2 to shoot.

Technically it will be on the same level as R2 maybe a bit better but not as good as Gears 2..."
"Yeah you wish that was true."

Wait and see Rash. If Killzone 2 gets better reviews than Gears 2 i admit i was wrong. Most gamers know by now that the PS3 is not the platform with the best looking games. This isnt going to change with Killzone 2 imo. LBP looks pretty good for a PS3 title though.

@teabagger

true, also the devs are businesses too. You don't necessarily want your rivals to have access to work you have spent a lot of time and money on even if they pay for a license from you to use some of that info.
If you have got a proprietary engine and your whole pipeline is set up around that, porting that model to another company without a lot of support would be hard work and obviously doesn't happen very often.

It would be cool if it did though, imagine some of the games you could make based on the GTA engine.

muscle, i don't have to wait and see, i'm looking at the preview vids and technically it's clear to see to all but the most hardened xboxer.

retbra, excellent post. it's nice to know some here have a technical understanding of the PS3.

"muscle, i don't have to wait and see, i'm looking at the preview vids and technically it's clear to see to all but the most hardened xboxer."

You must be looking at some 'enhanced' video then, because having played through Gears 2 and having watched the 720p vids of KZ2 I can confirm that on a technical level the two games are most definitely on par. Gears has slightly better texturing whilst KZ2 has a slightly nicer lighting engine.

The art direction and style of game obviously will influence the viewers preference one way or another, but purely on technical terms there is little or no difference.

"Most gamers know by now that the PS3 is not the platform with the best looking games. This isnt going to change with Killzone 2 imo."

I'm not so sure about that. Yep, Gears 2 definitely looks fantastic (I've only played the first hour and a half or so, but that was more than enough to impress me), but judging by recent Killzone 2 videos - all obviously low res and/or over compressed, as is always the case on gaming sites - it certainly looks like it can match Gears 2 on visuals, and possibly even surpass it.
Getting all those usually more or less dormant Cell cores/SPUs/SPEs/whatever to handle various effect layers, rather than unloading everything onto the underpowered GPU, looks like it might have done the trick. If it indeed has, let's hope (unless you're a 360 fanboy of course :p) that other developers get to term with that coding process as well sooner rather than later.

I can't wait to get my hands on Killzone 2, although I'm really mostly interested in multiplayer (which should be great if previews and beta reports are anything to go by) and rather less so in the singleplayer campaign, which I suspect I may not even make it through (as the case has been with CoD4 + WaW and Resistance 2).

Why is Gears 2 being touted as the yard stick for console graphics? From the vid's I've seen G2 does look phenomanel (as did the first) but MGS4 won all the 'Best Graphics' awards I've seen awarded. Gamespot, some awards ceremony in USA (it was posted on EG a couple of weeks back) and VGChartz (ok, this one doesnt count).
If it looks better than MGS4 I'll be seriously impressed.

I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that.

Good news Widge. Split screen or online? I take it they mean online?

i'll be surprised if co-op is split screen.

@mcbi4kh2

If you had actually played Gears, then you would know why it's the yardstick, at least on a technical level. For comparisons I will always get to play, or see being played, the target of discussion.

The reason Gears doesnt win awards for visuals is because the art direction is not to everyone's taste and rather than judge on a technical level most people look at Gears and dismiss it because of the 'gay space marines', not grasping the self-parody that is prevailant throught the game. It's highly stylised whereas MGS has a much more traditional aesthetic.

I will agree that the in-engine cutscenes in MGS are the most polished I've seen in any game, but the actual gameplay graphics, whilst competant are nothing special.

Fair enough, good answer.

I've played the first but not the second. Any chance of that one getting a PC port?

"The kicker though is that its become very clear that the RSX is a lot less capable than the Xenos GPU (Sony cutting corners as usual)

More Sony rushing the PS3 to market to battle HD-DVD. RSX was a last minute job and it shows. PS3 was meant to have multiple CELLs and no dedicated GPU. It's a shame Toshiba (thanks in no small part to MS support) and Sony couldn't prevent the HD format war. Smart move by MS though, would have resulted in a far better PS3 which would have made it hard to keep the hardcore tied to the 360, pixel whores as they are. And of course it would have prevented a lot of money being wasted by both companies and consumers. As MS's prime businesses are built on companies and people wasting money, it would have been a bit much to ask of them to care though... ;)

"I've played the first but not the second. Any chance of that one getting a PC port?"

Epic have said no, it will stay 360 exclusive. Personally, I'd staple a sachet of salt to that statement. ;)

Having said that, I seem to remember UT3 on the PC performed poorly at retail, so who knows?

If it looks like Gears 2 will be announced for the PC then I'll have to find a way of interrupting Cliffy B's sugar and caffiene supply as his boystrous american-ness is bound to plastered over vids for months beforehand. Really, there must be a better description for his games than 'badass'...

Comparison of different games on a technical level is a bit pointless. Particularly where both games are obviously high-end and in the case of Gears2 and KZ2 concentrate of different technical aspects. It will always go down to a personal preference on the art style.