Killzone 2 Comments by Christian Donlan

@Rash'
Isn't games using more than a DVD's worth of space the exception rather than the rule too? Maybe the extra space does bring something extra but is it tangibly anything more than multiple DVDs could provide? Is not having to switch discs worth the obvious and well documented downsides?

"i find it hilarious that you still believe the copious amounts of space offered by BR brings nothing to game development."

I find it hilarious that you think access speeds vs. a disc swap once every week isnt a reasonable trade-off.

The extra space offered by BR is also offered by multiple DVD's.

The extra speed of DVD's is not offered by BR.

DrDamn, am i really the only one to whom it's occurred that if all the data needs to be accessible at all times then multiple dvds aren't good enough? Sam Houser would certainly agree.

@Rash'
There are ways and means to work around this in general and it will only apply to a minority of games. Slow seek speed applies to all games. If you are going to have an issue which needs to be worked around then you want it to apply to the minority, not the majority. It also still doesn't get around the fact that Sony knew it was going to use BR in a games machine and it should have made it at least as good as current tech for that purpose.

farticus, how many multiples would you need for pioneer's newly developed 400GB BR?

DrDamn, so there ways round this problem with dvd which third party publishers and devs have been vocal about? what do you believe them to be because i'm suggesting the obvious but you seem determined not to want to see that with very weak reasoning.

oh, and the seek speeds can to be worked around, while problem solving on BR will be in the name of progress, with dvd we all know it's to hold on to a dated media format.

furthermore, it makes better economic practice to resolve issues affecting the majority rather than the minority as the returns for the investment will be greater.

"farticus, how many multiples would you need for pioneer's newly developed 400GB BR?"

Ask me that question again in 5 years time when the capacity might actually be needed.

In the meantime, DVD's work just fine, thanks.

"IneptPercy what bloody more do you want from it?

Seriously its got loads of brilliant exclusives and plays most multiplat games up to the standard of the 360.

Killzone 2 looks incredible, day one buy for me."

Multiplatform games are no worries already owning a 360, so it really is down to exclusives.

I want some games which make me think "I need that game", yes its down to personal preference which games cut that, so far its:

Wipeout
Killzone 2 (Maybe)

Unfortunately I can't afford it for 2 games right now, yes there is others which I will probably get on the cheap if I had a PS3 but they don't make we want to buy the thing enough.

I will add I am looking at the 2 machines purely from a gaming point of view, If i didn't already have a blu-ray player that may help it along, but I do. I won't say the range of games is dissapointing, just not amazing.

@Rash'
Ways of solving DVD capacity issues - use more than one disc (I think a few people have done that) - if that is not so easy then restructure the game to suit - see "id" for example.

"furthermore, it makes better economic practice to resolve issues affecting the majority rather than the minority as the returns for the investment will be greater."

It makes more economic and practical sense to not cause the issue to the majority in the first place!

Name the big list of titles which use more than a DVD worth and space where it couldn't be reasonably resolved by splitting the info over multiple discs (or cutting out a load of pointless HD video)?

DrDamn, but all those solutions don't change the fact that you're making compromises due to dated technology. in a multiplat game you'd be asking devs to make compromises to their creative design because the tech isn't up to scratch. yes ID did it but what's true of one game can't necessarily be applicable to all. but i suspect you know all this.

seek speed is a development hurdle in the face of progress with BR, which isn't as big an issue you'd like us to believe, the topic game works round it without the need for installs for example. limited space on dvd is also a development hurdle, but inspite of progress. it's a hurdle, and lets be frank here, because long term dvd can't deliver. it is dated technology for gaming and will hold it back.

but you know i see where this conversation is heading so please say piece and lets us agree to disagree.

edit: in response to your closing question: LBP.

@Rash

"because long term dvd can't deliver. it is dated technology for gaming and will hold it back."

Here I agree. This generation of consoles can work perfectly from DVD, and there are not really fast enough BR drives available at a reasonable price to fully justify their use, IMO. Also, there really aren't enough games using enough data to justify BR for the cost.

Next gen, however, games are more likely to be using textures and FMV designed for 1080p display and BR drives will be plentiful and with much higher seek and transfer speeds. Then I think BR will be far more essential.

and what if devs want to push those boundaries today as id did but found they had to make sacrifices on 360 because the tech was lacking? all i'm saying is devs will push for it if the tech is given to them. it will start this gen not the next.

"Next gen, however, games are more likely to be using textures and FMV designed for 1080p display and BR drives will be plentiful and with much higher seek and transfer speeds. Then I think BR will be far more essential. "

There is a bigger chance that optical media will be dropped in favour of solid state. The circle is complete.

Dizzy, do you honestly believe optical media will be dropped next gen? i think that's highly optimistic.

"There is a bigger chance that optical media will be dropped in favour of solid state. The circle is complete."

There is that possibility. I don't believe it personally, and will be buying DVD movies and CD music for the foreeable future as I dont want to upgrade my extensive media collection unless there's a discernable quality increase, which there isnt.

"and what if devs want to push those boundaries today as id did but found they had to make sacrifices on 360 because the tech was lacking? all i'm saying is devs will push for it if the tech is given to them. it will start this gen not the next. "

it will , we'll see it it in the latter part of this gen (into 2010 perhaps).

It will mean it's not been an issue for the first 5 years of 360's life and was thus sensible not to hamper the console with overly high costs. Would prove Blu ray was a better shot for next gen if you wanted to get your price down to mass market levels quickly and the lack of it was little concern this gen.

@Rash'
Ok we'll agree to disagree. I will part with a couple of quick shots though - if DVD is such dated tech why does it have a better seek time? ;). As for LBP, you could easily shift off the tutorials onto a separate DVD that would catch the majority of it.

As for dropping optical media - that is exactly what devs, manufacturers and publishers want to do. As soon as they can realistically make it happen - they will. Make everything DLC. Cuts out the retailer and stops people selling stuff on. It will happen, maybe not fully next gen but we are not far off all content being provided as dlc as an option in my opinion.

If they pass on some of the reduced costs then I say bring it on. I don't want to be swapping stuff in and out of the CD/BR drive all the time.

It's definitely fair to say that in the future discs the size of BD's will be necessary, but to try and convince anyone that it's necessary now only says to me that you've been drinking too much of the Sony kool-aid.

looks around.... this last page of comments is surprisngly sensible. no surprise that farticus is in a ps3 news story when he doesnt own one!

"Cuts out the retailer"

No it doesn't, just replaces the retailer. iTunes, Steam, PSN, WiiWare and XBLA are retail spaces. Virtual, but still retail spaces that will mark up the price to cover their costs and profit margin. By now most parties have discovered that retail is a specialised skill and that it's more cost effective to have a professional party handle that than sell products directly to end consumers.

I don't think bricks and mortar retailers and optical formats will die out soon though, certainly not before the next gen. One reason that the reason music downloads have been such a relative hit is mainly because having lots of music tracks and playing them at random on a portable player makes sense. For video and games the benefits of digital copies are much smaller, especially when it comes to home versions of the consoles.

Another reason is that for games the retailers that sell the machines right now sell the software as well (as opposed in general to music and video players that are sold in specialty stores while their media are sold in other specialty stores). The business would be a lot less interesting for them if it was just the machines, so they will forcefully oppose a move to just downloads. Just how powerful retail still is is shown by PSN downloads costing as much as their disc based versions.

DrDamn & trebell, Re: LBP. Yes, but the design of the original game would be compromised. And I doubt all those 720p vids would fit on to one dvd. You can correct me on that, but the point is devs would compromise their designs because of the inability of the format. That would be today, not two years from now.

AI is still dumb,textures are weak,there are some lod problems,hypezone 2 indeed...
But then again i think that COD4 is shit so...

@des
Spot the man who didn't bother to read the article. Couple of choice quotes for you so you don't have to ...

"A closer look reveals a wealth of finer details: the concrete's cracked and scarred, and the buildings are wedged haphazardly against one another, covered with tin bandages and broken windows. There's time to notice a few more niceties - how good the textures look close-up..."

"Playing through a few sections of the campaign reveals that the Helghast have become fearsome opponents, far removed from the pop-up targets of the first game. They soften you up from afar, move in to flank, and will come looking for you if you start to hang back..."

Now, you were saying?

@des

Killzone 2 looks very nice, easily as nice as any other shooter out there.

The only question mark is whether the controls are too stodgy. It was one of the reasons I hated KZ1 so much. It does seem vastly improved from the first game though.

Another gray Fp that looks like a COD4 mod... who cares?


Bring the New Riddick game on, please

^ LOLOLOLOLOLOL

have you seen recent vids.. "COD mod" LOL

@DrDamn

I know what article says,but videogame journalists are blind as bats in general,especially in previews(my apologies too bats).There are plenty of screenshots,videos floating around for people to see and dissect.

Previews are nothing more than free PR...
To see how god or bad some heavily hyped game is you have to wait couple of weeks after its release or buy it blindly.

des, yeah, but then again you think CoD4 is shit...

@des
So we should take your considered view on the matter where you have hand selected the appropriate material to back up your view rather than someone who has sat down and played the latest build. Just to make it clear yes?