IGDA slams WAR for omitting credits

By Oli Welsh Published 26 August, 2008

Mythic to only credit current staff.

Mythic, developer of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, has come under fire for not crediting all members of staff who worked on the game.

Shacknews revealed last week that Mythic would not credit everyone who has ever helped develop the game, choosing to name current staff members only.

The IGDA (International Game Developers Association) has responded with a statement in its newsletter. Chairperson Jen MacLean - quoted by Shacknews once again - said it was"disrespectful of the effort of the game developers who worked on the game, and misleads both consumers and game industry peers".

Mythic chief Mark Jacobs defended the decision to MTV Multiplayer, saying, "I'll worry more about the people who are with me right now, than those who decided that they didn't like the company or they wanted to take a better job somewhere else.

"I think the credits belong to the people who have been working on this game non-stop, whether they've been with us for a week or whether they've been with us for three years."

Jacobs also pointed out that the shifting staffing needs of online games, with huge teams that change over time, made comprehensive credits lists difficult to compile. "Show me one MMO that has been up for seven years that has kept the credits for every single person who's worked on the game as long as they've had a large team," he said.

"If we set that precedent right now... The credits will be 20 pages long within a couple of years. And nobody does that."

The IGDA has recommended guidelines for crediting staff, but these are recommended only. There is currently no industry-wide standard for crediting game development staff. Last year, Rockstar caused a stir by leaving its Vienna team out of the credits for Manhunt 2.

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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (28) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Floppy #1 4 years ago

    Believe it or not sunshine, some people still leave companies because of changes in circumstance and personal life choices. If I were one of them, I'd be miffed if I was omitted after some hard graft.

  • Kikekun #2 4 years ago

    Well, in an industry where experience and published games are definately a plus for getting a new job, I´d say I´m totally with the IGDA here.

  • the_dudefather #3 4 years ago

    "If we set that precedent right now... The credits will be 20 pages long within a couple of years. And nobody does that."

    just make the pages go faster, or use a smaller font for the manual, as long as everyone who helped make the game gets credit for their efforts

  • Hunam #4 4 years ago

    It's all too common in this industry :(

  • anomagnus #5 4 years ago

    look, i;m sure its a pain for the individual developer, but who actually reads the credits of a game?

    I don't, i don't know anyone that has

    and if they're using it as work experience, wouldn't it just appear in their cv? Would a potential employer finish a game just to read the credits?

    storm in a very, very small teacup

  • SentientNr6 #6 4 years ago

    I think credits are like an acknowledgment the company gives to it's devs.
    If devs leave the company I don't see why they should still be rewarded?
    They can mention they worked on game X and Y on their CV anyway?
    If I stop working for my company I am no longer paid either.
    Oh and I am a developer as well but on our software there's not a single dev, not a single person actually, mentioned by name as is the case for most software and products when you come to think about it.
    Gamedevs too often think they are stars.

  • Coughthulu #7 4 years ago

    Games are the only industry in the software world that credits the people who work on it. I've always assumed that it's because they're "entertainment", like films.

    I develop software for consumer electronics, but I've never been mentioned in a set of credits. Surely that's why you have a CV?


  • Fodder #8 4 years ago

    "Would a potential employer finish a game just to read the credits?"

    No, they'd probably just check Mobygames. And if your CV says you worked on a game, but Mobygames says you're not in the credits, that might look to them like you're not being truthful.

  • Coughthulu #9 4 years ago

    "No, they'd probably just check Mobygames. And if your CV says you worked on a game, but Mobygames says you're not in the credits, that might look to them like you're not being truthful."

    But surely they'd just check with the HR department at the developer who developed the game? It's just another reference, surely? Or is it all completely different in the game world?

  • kangarootoo #10 4 years ago

    Mobygames is about as accurate as Stevie Wonder's paint by numbers set. Any employer who takes the word of Mobygames over any other avenue of investigation is an idiot.


    On the subject at hand, I find this particular incident a little pathetic.

    "I'll worry more about the people who are with me right now, than those who decided that they didn't like the company or they wanted to take a better job somewhere else"

    That just makes it sound like a childish strop, a revenge move against those who buggered off because they'd had enough.


    Crediting isn't to massage the ego of wannabe superstars (there are a few in this business, but the vast vast majority of devs are nothing like that). Its just polite and courteous and costs barely anything.

    Its one thing not to credit anyone at all, for technical reasons (or like software products from other sectors), but if you are going to include a credits page it should include everyone who contributed. That is what it is there for, if it is there at all.

  • Xerx3s #11 4 years ago

    What's the problem with a 20 page long credits section?

  • Fodder #12 4 years ago

    I don't think I've ever worked for a developer that had an HR department :) Actually, they wouldn't have been able to check that way in most of my interviews anyway, as that would need the previous employer to still exist.

    Whether games should have credits or not is one thing, but if you do have them, it seems reasonable to me that they should list everybody who worked on the title.

  • Coughthulu #13 4 years ago

    @Fodder:
    That's an extremely good point, I guess the games sector's also a lot more unstable than other software dev businesses (although I've been made redundant twice).

    I agree with you and kangarootoo though, if credits exist it should include everyone who contributed.

  • actionfitz #14 4 years ago

    This sort of thing is pure Bullshit.
    I have 3 xbox/PS2 games on my CV, though on the last one im ommitted from the 'Artists' section of the credits and relegated to the end of the list in a section called "With thanks to..." that included anyone who left the company before the game hit the shops.

    I remember on one project we had to fight internally to keep credits in the game manual - the reason they wanted to get rid of them? the were concerned key staff might be 'headhunted'.
    wankers.

  • actionfitz #15 4 years ago

    @anomagnus
    26-Aug-08 12:19:35

    "storm in a very, very small teacup"

    tell that to the Movie industry that are oblidged to credit everyone down to the tea-lady for their contribution.

    When you've worked in a industry where the practice of 'unpaid overtime' and unsocial 'crunch time' hours is an epidemic... where the 'realigning of staffing' - http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?art... at the end of a project or between games is common...
    im confident you'd feel differently about not even getting an acknowledgement for your work in the credits.

  • Floppy #16 4 years ago

    "look, i;m sure its a pain for the individual developer, but who actually reads the credits of a game?"

    Me, always. After being in 'the industry', I have a moral respect of all the people who toiled to give me my enjoyment. I certainly remember with the original Fable, you could only carry on and roam around the world if you had watched the credits and pressed the requested button at the end. A nice touch which I'm sure many missed.

  • urban #17 4 years ago

    i have to agree.

  • SentientNr6 #18 4 years ago

    @Floppy. You paid for the game, that's respect enough.

    @actionfitz
    It indeed looks like they want the same silly rigid bureacratic system as in the movie industry.

    I don't get it: If you're not happy with your employer you can always leave.
    And why should an employer not reward only those who stick with the team to the end?
    Makes sense to me.

  • actionfitz #19 4 years ago

    @SentientNr6
    26-Aug-08 14:27:12

    "And why should an employer not reward only those who stick with the team to the end?"

    Credit for your work isnt a 'reward' mate :) its a right.

    lets say you and your mate 'bob' (just a random example) made a game, Bob is the coder but you both designed the gameplay and you did all the art and then moved on to something new to pay the bills as there was no more art to be done...
    Then Bob releases:
    'Bob's amazing indie game 1.0'
    you look at the credits and see
    Credits:
    Bob - everything.

    you wouldnt be a bit pissed?
    Edited by actionfitz at 26/08/08 @ 14:37

  • SentientNr6 #20 4 years ago

    In this case Bob is a loser and I know where he lives! ;)

    But ok I see where this is coming from definately if it's defined as a right as opposed to a 'reward'.
    Fact is sometimes coders leave and leave a mess behind for others to clean up. Would you like that guy's name next to you in the credits?

  • actionfitz #21 4 years ago

    if the guys' work was soo poor that it had to be redone and he made no real contribution then there'd be a case for exclusion from credits...

    but these days Game Credits include everyone from the guy who designed the game to the cuy who copy/pasted the Eurogamer 9/10 review score on to the game box cover design. I You modeled half the levels or wrote the code that lets players decapitate each other... just think its not too much to ask for a mention under: 'Artists' or 'Code-monkeys' :)
    Edited by actionfitz at 26/08/08 @ 15:11

  • Maximilian #22 4 years ago

    Who cares? The only people who read game credits are those credited.

  • kangarootoo #23 4 years ago

    @SentientNr6

    "Fact is sometimes coders leave and leave a mess behind for others to clean up. Would you like that guy's name next to you in the credits?"

    That isn't the point. If credits exist, they should list everybody who worked on the game. Doesn't matter what they did or how effective they were, they should be listed. There are plenty of ways of dealing with incompetant or shoddy staff; the credits page is not one of them.

    Edit: and in answer to the question, I wouldn't care less whether anyone listed next to me in the credits had done a good job or not. Frankly I would hope it would be beneath me to care about stuff like that.
    Edited by kangarootoo at 26/08/08 @ 16:06

  • hiddenranbir #24 4 years ago

    Long pages aren't next-gen.

  • jimr9999us #25 4 years ago

    Mythic simply removed 66% of the credits because they wouldn't be satisfied unless their credits were the best the mmorpg genre had seen.

  • Moz #26 4 years ago

    Oh Please, does everyone who works on a game really deserve to be on the credits??

    At the end of the day like anyone else in the world the people who have worked on the game have got paid for their time working on it.

    I can understand crediting creative talents because it's their idea and people want to be able to pick up other games/films/music by the same person because they like their style, same goes for acting/voice talent.

    But no ones going to go a look for games with sub routines coded by Peter Thompson or Films where Sarah Smith baked cakes for crew.

    Why give a shit if your name appears somewhere in a long list of names that no one is every going to bother reading through, it's just a waist of time.

  • Moz #27 4 years ago

    "No, they'd probably just check Mobygames. And if your CV says you worked on a game, but Mobygames says you're not in the credits, that might look to them like you're not being truthful."

    Which is what references are for surely same as any other job, your potential employer writes to your old employer and checks your telling the truth. Otherwise if you have a vagely comman name i'm sure you could find a hand full of games that have someone with the same name as you in the credits.

  • Moz #28 4 years ago

    @actionfitz, your example is more about Copy write, if you come up with the ideas for something then unless you give up your write to the content in some way, your entitled to a share of the money and thus credit.

    However if you've been employed by a company and paid for your work then you have no ongoing rights once you've left the company.

    The extent of credits in all entertainment mediums credit more people then they really need to or that people care about.