World of Warcraft

By Ellie Gibson Published 7 February, 2006

Blizzard pops in for a chat.

World of Warcraft has been in the gaming news rather a lot lately. Sometimes for positive reasons, such as the announcement of The Burning Crusade expansion and the fact that there are now more than five million WOW players around the globe.

And sometimes for not so positive reasons - such as the login problems that continue to deny many European players instant access, or in some cases any access at all, to Azeroth. Then there are the allegations that Chinese players are being discriminated against by others who suspect them to be gold farmers, and that Blizzard's refusal to allow LGB-friendly guilds represents an infringement on lesbian and gay rights.

Now Blizzard has agreed to sit down with Eurogamer and discuss those issues - well, er, one of them, anyway. We're told that the gentlemen we're about to interview, WOW producer Shane Dabiri and operations man John Lagrave, can't comment on the allegations of racism and anti-gay discrimination, since they are entirely responsible for the technical side of things.

Which is a shame - the issue of social responsibility in World of Warcraft, and of who should take that responsibility on, is an interesting one that we're keen to quiz Blizzard on. But for now we'll have to be content with addressing those login problems; so without further ado...

Eurogamer: Many World of Warcraft players have recently been complaining that they have to wait for long periods of time to get in the game once they've entered their username and password - and that sometimes it's not possible to log in at all. Are these problems still ongoing?

John Lagrave: A lot of the login issues are persisting. They're much less than what they were, but we have been having some incredible concurrency with the game itself, and as such that's put quite a bit of burden on the existing hardware that we have.

Eurogamer: Can you explain what you mean by concurrency?

John Lagrave: It's just that suddenly a lot of people showed up - sort of like when you're at a party and suddenly 15 people walk through the door and they all want a drink. It's like, "Well, I'll get that to you, but it's going to take a bit of time," and that's what we've found.

We've been very fortunate in that a large number of people came into the game just recently; we've had good growth throughout the past year, but we had exceptionally high numbers come in over the holidays. Which was wonderful, and we're glad they're all there, but it put some additional stress onto the system and we've had to respond to that.

'World of Warcraft' Screenshot 2

A couple of Night Elves debate the issue of social responsibility in MMORPGs. Possibly.

Eurogamer: So how are you responding?

John Lagrave: Right now, we are working on a solution on multiple fronts. One of the things we're doing is working on hardware improvements, the system infrastructure that supports World of Warcraft itself. We're upgrading all the hardware continuously.

On the bandwidth side, we're also working with network providers in Europe to get the traffic routed better and to deal with issues on their end. Because of course we put a huge burden upon the demands for the Internet in Europe, and they've had to react. So we've been building up relationships with the various network providers here.

Eurogamer: One of Eurogamer's forum posters suggested you could offer guilds an incentive to switch servers. Is that something you'd consider?

John Lagrave: It's certainly something that we've considered and there are good reasons to do that, but there are arguments both for and against. Are we going to do that? I can't give you a definitive answer today. But it's certainly on the board, it's being looked at. We've done somewhat similar stuff - not quite the same, but somewhat similar - in Korea, so the notion is not foreign to us and we are definitely giving it due consideration.

Eurogamer: In the past, when issues have arisen that have prevented people from playing the game, you've offered compensation in the form of free hours of play. Is that something you plan to do in this instance?

John Lagrave: We're always looking, if we ever are failing in our service, to compensate people. So I'll say it's an ongoing thing that we always do.

'World of Warcraft' Screenshot 1

This here lady's a Blood Elf - a new race that will be introduced in The Burning Crusade.

Eurogamer: Let's talk about the new Burning Crusade expansion - how's it shaping up? What has the response from testers been like?

Shane Dabiri: It's shaping up really good; we're really happy with the progress so far. We're going to be making some announcements at E3, some exciting stuff - nothing I can tell you quite yet, but some things that I think the players will be happy with.

Our internal testing group are the only people testing it right now, and they're giving us some very good responses. There will be a beta test, but we haven't made any plans so far.

Eurogamer: Do you already have plans for further expansions in the pipeline?

Shane Dabiri: Right now we're just concentrating on The Burning Crusade and our live content updates, but the Warcraft universe being as big as it is gives us lots of opportunity to expand it even further. We're definitely looking to do that down the road.

Eurogamer: Is there a time when we could see World of Warcraft expanding outside the PC - on, say, Xbox 360?

Shane Dabiri: It's definitely something that we've discussed, but it's not something we're planning on doing at this point.

'World of Warcraft' Screenshot 3

The Lunar Festival is taking place right now in WOW and will continue until February 14th.

Eurogamer: With regard to hitting the five million subscriber mark - why do you think World of Warcraft is so popular?

Shane Dabiri: It's easy to learn and difficult to master. Most Blizzard games follow that mantra; everything from the user interface to getting into the game is very intuitive. I think before World of Warcraft the MMO market was very niche and there were lots of hardcore gamers - the players were of a much different variety. But now I think we've grown out of that and we're bringing in the Moms and Pops, and the families, and more of the female gamers, and it's much more compatible with a wider range of players.

Eurogamer: So the MMO market isn't so niche now, and it's expanding all the time. How do you plan to keep up with your rivals?

Shane Dabiri: We actually think that it's good to have a little competition out there. We're all gamers at Blizzard, and we like to play all different types of game. We imagine that our players also like to do so, so there's probably room for more than just World of Warcraft.

Eurogamer: Have you played Dungeons & Dragons Online? Some beta testers are saying it's looking very similar to WOW...

Shane Dabiri: Some of our developers have played in the beta. I think it's flattering to see developers looking at something that works and trying to evolve their products too. I don't think that it's anything that we definitely feel like we're threatened by necessarily; we welcome the competition.

Eurogamer: What about Guild Wars, which doesn't charge a monthly subscription fee? How can you justify making WOW players pay £8.99 a month when other companies are offering MMOs that are free to play?

Shane Dabiri: I think Guild Wars is a much different type of game to World of Warcraft. The type of service that we provide, the continuous content updates that we provide, we also provide 24-7 customer service... There's definitely a different level of content provided for our game.

I think the players that are really into World of Warcraft can see the value that that brings and are willing to pay for it. A game like Guild Wars definitely has its place as well; I think there's a place for both types of games.

Eurogamer: And finally, what would you say to European WOW players who are fed up with the login issues? Will things definitely get better?

Shane Dabiri: Please do let them know things are getting better. Our goal is not resting on our laurels; our goal is to constantly improve our service and better ourselves.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (77) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • neon #1 6 years ago

    Corrr! nice body, shame about the green lazer eyes. Scary bitch.

  • reality_cheque #2 6 years ago

    Only £8.99/month? I was finding it easier to resist when I thought it was £14.99 :(

    *sigh*

    No doubt I will be making my first character within the week now. Goodbye social life!

    I hope they do make a X360 version, so there is at least one MMPORPG I can play alongside the missus.

  • Phattso #3 6 years ago

    That's all great, guys but please get inter-account character transfers going. Yeah, I know two people aren't supposed to share the same account according to the T's & C's but out here in the real world that happens. A lot.

    I want shot of my missus' Level 60 Druid onto her account so I can get a turn on mine. :)

  • El_MUERkO #4 6 years ago

    Biggest concern of the moment is the growing imbalance between raiders and non-raiders which effects every aspect of the game, the lack of meaningfull PvP and the ongoing everquest-ifying of a game that was supposed to be friendly to casual players but isnt the moment you hit end game.

  • urban #5 6 years ago

    ellie, you're the same as aleks when it comes to social online issues, i think wow are perfectly correct to say, these arent game world issues. because they shouldnt be.

  • jack_klugman #6 6 years ago

    We're told that the gentlemen we're about to interview, WOW producer Shane Dabiri and operations man John Lagrave, can't comment on the allegations of racism and anti-gay discrimination, since they are entirely responsible for the technical side of things.

    It would be nice to see this and topics like it discussed more. Perhaps EuroGamer interviewing other industry figures to talk about video game ethics? I'd certainly welcome that. Rob's social responsibility article on GI is the sort of thing I'd champion more of.

  • The_Aardvark #7 6 years ago

    Inter-account character transfer will never happen.

    It would just make it far too easy to sell pre-buffed chars specced out with uber epix.

  • Stickman #8 6 years ago

    Did they say anything about giving Level 15 Dwarf paladins any gold?

  • kenty #9 6 years ago

    agree with El_MUERkO, for a lot of people the most enjoyable part of the game is level 1 to 59. I know quite a few people that get to level 45 or 50 and then just start a new char.

  • Phattso #10 6 years ago

    Inter-account character transfer will never happen.

    It would just make it far too easy to sell pre-buffed chars specced out with uber epix.

    They've said before that it's on the cards. They suggested that to protect against the exact case you're postulating there would be a transfer fee and a limit of a single transfer from any given account.

    Sure, I suppose there are possibilities for abuse in all sorts of ways but given Blizzard's stance and performance in this regard in the past I'd trust them to handle it well. And it's not as if WoW has a shortage of crap players anyways, so a few that buy their way to 60 aren't likely to stand out too much. ;)
    Edited by 2 at 07/02/06 @ 14:03

  • reality_cheque #11 6 years ago

    Stickman: Sorry, only Lvl 14 and below get 1000000gold, Lvl 15 plus characters get a donkey.

  • gaijin #12 6 years ago

    "Lvl 15 plus characters get a donkey."

    sorry, the role of annoying talking animal sidekick is already taken.

  • gaijin #13 6 years ago

    actually, I have a relevant question for once. I confess up front that I'm not a MMORPG player, for assorted reasons, not least because our only non-console games platform is a MAC (girl fiends choice, not mine). But this end game thing - if levels 1-59 are enjoyable, why does it all go tits up at level 60? And if (as I understand it) WOW levels top out at 65, isn't 60 levels out of 65 a pretty good average? I can think of a good many games where at least one level in 12 is pretty annoying... Is the problem that by this time the xp requirements are so great that actually getting though 5 levels takes as long as the preceding 50 (rather like the grind to get to Elite, for those that remember it...)?

    sorry, probably being thick, but genuinely interested...

  • smoison #14 6 years ago

    Although WoW sounds WicKeD, 15 bucks a month is more then any game can justify.

    The fact that guild wars (and it is not the only one) can existe without a monthly fee proves that.

    I dont expect to pay tech supprort juste to play a game....

  • Owain #15 6 years ago

    >_> I prefer everquest 2
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/06 @ 14:32

  • Phattso #16 6 years ago

    The "end game" is when characters reach the level cap which is currently Level 60. Because no more XP is awarded, much of the incentive to undertake quests is removed. Also, quest rewards become less desirable simply because the chances are you have already found/won/bought the gear you want.

    This only leaves one major activity: raiding for epic gear. This usually necessitates groups of 8-40 people; a lot of planning; a lot of dedication; and a lot of grinding the same instances again and again and again. This is in stark contrast to the way the game has been to that point (exploring new and diverse regions, taking on interesting quests solo or in small groups, etc.).

    Now to give Blizzard their dues, they do add new end game content (like the faction rewards, Battlegrounds, upgraded areas like Silithus) but it's still a definite shift away from the tone of the game to that point.

    For most people that can't face or aren't interested in the end game, the solution is either quit playing or simply roll another character and start over.

  • UncleLou #17 6 years ago

    Although WoW sounds WicKeD, 15 bucks a month is more then any game can justify.

    The fact that guild wars (and it is not the only one) can existe without a monthly fee proves that.

    I dont expect to pay tech supprort juste to play a game....

    5 million subscribers beg to differ. I really wish people would stop comparing Guild Wars to WoW or other MMORPGS. GW is a great game, but it's not a proper MMORPG.

  • gaijin #18 6 years ago

    thanks Phattso. kinda sounds like the malaise that's afflicted RPGs since Gary Gygax. D&D tried to get round it by encouraging you to build your own kingdom and the whole thing turned into a tedious resource management exercise tacked onto the end with shonky rules...

  • ave #19 6 years ago

    "We also provide 24-7 customer service..."

    Last time I looked it was 9-5 5days a week, with in-game petitions taking up to a day.

    It's 10:30 to 8pm 4 days a week, 10:30 to 7pm on friday.

    My mistake
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/06 @ 14:39

  • stoopidgreg #20 6 years ago

    so according to him, all those suckers paying £9 a month for WoW are paying for tech support that they never use? i can't imagine anyone who plays WoW calls up tech support to the value of £9 every month... guild wars for me thanks.

  • Stickman #21 6 years ago

    stoopidgreg - never was there a more apt username.

  • gaijin #22 6 years ago

    awww, really? I'd always kinda assumed that you were a little pencil sketch with skinny little arms and legs and a big white head, a bit like the Saint's logo.

    /is disappointed :-)

  • jonnyreb #23 6 years ago

    The problem with the lvl 60 'end game' stuff (for me anyway) is simply that with a job, a house, 2 kids etc etc I really don't have time to spend 5 - 7 hours farming instances (dungeons) for the odd piece of good kit.

    Plus most of the group's that go there tend to start at like 2200hrs on a weeknight, and when you get up at 0530 for work it's just not an option.

    Another thing, which is absolutely nothing to do with Blizzard, is that most high level guilds expect you to have some kind of voice software (like Ventrillo) when you do a high lvl instance, and sitting plugged into a headset for 7 hours is not exactly my idea of looking out for my family :/

    Overall, I'd like to see some lvl 60 stuff where you can jump in for a couple of hours, maybe even some solo'able lvl 60 quests for good items.

    Otherwise, I'm doomed to see lvl 60 as my time to keep starting new characters (which is exactly what I am doing now after taking my first warrior to lvl 60).

  • paulf #24 6 years ago

    It's a quality game, and In terms of hours played per pound spent it's probably the most value as well. It's does get a bit boring at level 60 particually because there's very little you can do without getting together groups of 30+ players. I'd like to see some mini games (say like shooting gallery in RE4) at the darkmoon fayre with rewards for good scores, just something that you can dip into and not spend hours on.

  • Psi #25 6 years ago

    It's just that suddenly a lot of people showed up - sort of like when you're at a party and suddenly 15 people walk through the door and they all want a drink. It's like, "Well, I'll get that to you, but it's going to take a bit of time,"

    call the fucking annology police this fuckers serving time!

    This is a party you sold tickets for and said it would go off without a hitch! An each time I goto the bar I have to wait for an hour! An this party is every night for a year now and you still aint got the right number of staff servin so I get a drink in good time at the bar! The amount your raking in you should be ashamed there's any problems at all never mind brush shit off like a joke :p

  • Phattso #26 6 years ago

    What I can say to those that have a pretty full life outside of the game (and this includes me, too - full time job with overtime; missus and house waiting for me; etc. etc.) is that a good Guild can make all the difference.

    For example, I joined one recently with an active forum outside the game that makes planning effective instance runs a breeze. I can't go every night. In fact, once a week would be pushing it. But I've been able to suggest a time and date that works for me, and then get other guildies (some in the same boat as I) to sign up.

    What it means is that I can get some good game time in, on my terms, and with the chance for an epic drop. Personally I play for fun rather than gear anyway, but at least this way my character is still making progress through the end game and I'm not reduced to grinding faction solo or playing a lowbie I've created.

    And it means I'll be more prepared for the push to Level 70 when The Burning Crusade lands. ;-)

  • jonnyreb #27 6 years ago

    @Phattso

    What server do you play on? Not Stormreaver by any chance? Your Guild sounds like the sort of one I'm looking for hehe

  • Phattso #28 6 years ago

    Nope, Shadowsong I'm afraid. :)

  • Aga #29 6 years ago

    Bribe us with epixx to move! Oh yes!

  • redd #30 6 years ago

    guild wars is as much an MMO as phantasy star online, in that the cities act like big lobbies and the actual play sessions are instanced, player hosted.

  • AOFanboi #31 6 years ago

    Why would anyone let the raids of the "endgame" keep them from playing the very playable game from 1 to 60? Just stop playing when your character hits the level cap, and go play something else. Or even a different race/class combination from 1.

  • Phattso #32 6 years ago

    Why would anyone let the raids of the "endgame" keep them from playing the very playable game from 1 to 60? Just stop playing when your character hits the level cap, and go play something else. Or even a different race/class combination from 1.

    No offense, but have you levelled a character up to 60? It takes, literally, months. You get attached to the character, the style of play, the accumulated gear, etc. etc. To suddenly hit an arbitrary dead-end in a real time evolving game world is quite harsh.

    The point isn't that there are no other options (such as restarting); the point is that Blizzard always made a song and dance about how the game wouldn't die out for the casual player once the level cap was reached. But it did. :) So here I am with my Level 60 Dwarf Hunter (Gravven) and nothing much for him to do. OK - I've gotten lucky with a guild, but the same isn't true for everyone.

    The point of an MMORPG is that your character evolves as your experience in the game world evolves - that isn't the case for a lot of people post-60. It's not like a single player game that has a conclusion. It's not so easy to just walk away from the character you've invested so much effort in.

  • Stickman #33 6 years ago

    "awww, really? I'd always kinda assumed that you were a little pencil sketch with skinny little arms and legs and a big white head, a bit like the Saint's logo."

    I am! It's just his contains the description - 'stoopid', and an actual name - 'greg', whereas mine, by definition, is just description. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a busy day on Googlefight ahead...

  • Wabe #34 6 years ago

    Psi:

    Christ, he was just explaining what 'concurrency' meant. The whole point of them doing the interview was to tell people they're doing something about it.

    And Giajin: WoW does of course run on the Mac (and very well too).

  • UncleLou #35 6 years ago

    guild wars is as much an MMO as phantasy star online, in that the cities act like big lobbies and the actual play sessions are instanced, player hosted.

    Which is exactly my point why it isn't a real MMORPG, and why you can't compare it to something like WoW. The cities are lobbys, but the real game isn't "MM", hence the comparison is a bit pointless, and even unfair, as they obviously won't have even a tiny fraction of the costs a game like WoW has.

  • gaijin #36 6 years ago

    @Wabe

    yeah, I know, thanks. It just doesn't run on *our* mac, and the old upgrade wrangle just goes on and on - "well, it runs all the packages I need for work, and you've got the Playstation..." "it's an X-BOX" "... ok, X-Box thingy to play games on. Why do you need to play games on the computer? The computer's for work, and it runs all the..." etc etc etc ad nauseam.

  • Dire #37 6 years ago

    after resubscribing to WoW after quitting last August I'm shocked at how badly the servers are running with constant lag issues compared to last year.

    It is pretty shocking when I think about how much money Blizzard are bringing in each month.

  • wayn3h #38 6 years ago

    Which is exactly my point why it isn't a real MMORPG, and why you can't compare it to something like WoW. The cities are lobbys, but the real game isn't "MM", hence the comparison is a bit pointless, and even unfair, as they obviously won't have even a tiny fraction of the costs a game like WoW has.

    ----

    How does that work? I bet it takes the same amount of CPU time if not more per player on a guild wars server. Rather than one game world being hosted the servers are having to host thousands upon thousands of instances at once. AFAIK NCsoft did not take the instancing route to save money; but to make a more balanced MMO.

    And as far as I'm concerned Guild Wars is massively multiplayer.

    Blizzard should be ashamed that they charge £8 a month and still have problems. Guild wars offers streaming content, pretty good uptime and good tech support for free. How does that work?

  • Darkedge #39 6 years ago

    Unclelou - WoW has instances too.. both are massively multiplayer or does over a million players not count as massively multiplayer to you?
    ;)

    (both good yet different games. thats all)

  • UncleLou #40 6 years ago

    (both good yet different games. thats all)

    I've said that all along! :)

  • masterson #41 6 years ago

    Phattso - you really know what you're talking about and your descriptions took the words right out of my mouth. My girlfriend and I have been playing since beta, now on our 3rd set of chars. A good guild does indeed make all the difference, our current one is great - complete with an 8 year old player, his mum and dad AND his granny and grandad. Now THAT is broad appeal.
    Anyone who begrudges 9 quid a month for it simply hasn't played it or is a social retard. Anyone who begrudges the huge ammount of your free time it inevitably consumes may have a fair point however... :)

  • stoopidgreg #42 6 years ago

    "stoopidgreg - never was there a more apt username."

    that was really lame. ignored.

  • wayn3h #43 6 years ago

    stoopidgreg; That was lame indeed. ^^

    masterson; I have tried it and to be honest I don't think it is anywhere near as good as Guild Wars. For PvP there is no other MMO which even comes close, and as far as PvE is concerned Guild Wars just offers the best experience for me. And dare I say it again, it is free, offers constant free updates and damn good tech support. I don't see how Blizzard can justify £8 a month from 5 million players and still offer sub standard services.
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/06 @ 18:45

  • Phattso #44 6 years ago

    I don't see how Blizzard can justify £8 a month from 5 million players and still offer sub standard services.

    Well, let me put this to you. I've never been offered a sub-standard service. My server suffers, at worst, queues of two or three minutes and the down time is regularly scheduled (Wednesday mornings) for maintenance. Not that others aren't having problems, but just to gently remind folks that it's far from the majority.

    I don't see £8 a month exhorbitant considering what I get out of it (£2 a week? who'd notice?) and it offers an experience that, for me at least, isn't bettered anywhere else. 40-person raids into Zul'Gurub? Yes please. The whole server (Horde and Alliance) working together and contributing items to the war effort to unlock the Gates of Ahn Quiraj? Yes please. :)

    And before anyone asks, yes I also own Guild Wars. Yes it's a good game. And no it doesn't come close to giving me the WoW experience that has really been a natural fit for my gaming styles (post-60 notwithstanding). ;)

  • stoopidgreg #45 6 years ago

    it's £9 a month, btw.

    i know some (well, 5 million) people are fine with paying such a high premium for their digital drug of choice, but i _personally_ don't think it's worth it. i mean, when i buy a game i expect to only pay £30 and play it as much as i want. i could play it every day for a year and it would still cost £30. but with WoW you pay £30 plus £9 every month; that works out as £148 for a year. i mean, you could look at it as £2.25 a week, but it's still £148 a year. or you could just buy guild wars, play for a year, and buy something worth £148 at the end of the year.

  • Phattso #46 6 years ago

    "Drug of choice"? It's a game, pal - catch yourself on. :) Gaming is a hobby - whether it's me choosing to spend a few hours a week in Warcraft with some Geometry Wars 2 action on the side, or you playing whatever it is you play (I'm assuming you come here because you play games?) it's all just gaming.

    Unless you're making an appaling and sweeping generalisation that all people who play MMORPG's can't go a day without logging on for a "fix"? In which case you've just lost whatever little credability you had to debate the subject.

    Not your thing? No problem - good luck with whatever games float your boat. For me (after some 20 years of gaming) I'm lucky if there's three titles in an entire year worth my time. For World of Warcraft to provide me a few hours of gaming a week (work and family life allowing) is no mean feat, and is certainly deserving of the subscription fee compared to the utter dross that I see on the shelves week in and week out.

  • warlockuk #47 6 years ago

    When I first had a butchers at WoW back in February '05, I thought "£25 plus £9 per month? Fuck *right* off". I had a quick go at a char I made on a mate's account and within the space of 10 minutes we were in the motor en route to PC World / Toys R Us to locate a copy. For £9 per month you really can get your coin's worth. I haven't once begrudged them the money, either, and I now pay for two accounts (I got one for the girlfriend in April). I like to think of it as buying Blizzard a pint each week.

    But on that note, I *really* want Account-to-Account character transfers to happen. And soon. It's the usual tale; bloke lets his missus play his account 'cos saying "No, the EULA won't let me" is akin to saying "No, I'm a great big fairy", bird likes the game, bloke buys a 2nd copy, bird sneaks back onto bloke's account when he's working, suddenly both main chars are on the first account and are level 60 (and shoving for dominance).

    It's not gonna be a big problem for eBay, despite what some folk think - as the system would create a huge paper trail. At the moment they have to buy an account, make the char and then sell an entire account off - now if they use the character transfer it'll make catching the bastards a bit easier. All they need to do is catch one character (In the same way they might now). Then they check every account that character has been through, and every account those accounts have sent to/from. And every account they have transferred to/from. That should enable the ability to automatically block every customer the originating account has ever had, plus any laundry accounts. Job done.
    Having the service is gonna be more beneficial to customers *and* give 'em an extra fork to poke the eBayers in the arse with.

  • ImGameCube #48 6 years ago

    World of Wonga

  • stoopidgreg #49 6 years ago

    '"Drug of choice"? It's a game, pal'

    i know it's a game, but lots of people do get pretty addicted to it. i know a few people who used to play everquest far too much - like 16 hours a day. they would wake up at noon, play all day until 4 in the morning, go to bed and repeat that the next day. what i think is wrong with it is that companies who make games like this can exploit the unique addictiveness of MMORPGs and therefore charge them £9 a month.

  • Phattso #50 6 years ago

    So what you're saying is that you'd have no trouble with people getting madly addicted to WoW as long as they weren't paying cash for it? ;-)

    I think it's wrong that anyone should have the time to play these things 16 hours a day. But maybe that's because I just paid my f*cking tax bill to the Inland Revenue last week and it still hurts. :)

    I'm not in the bracket you're describing - I'm an adult with a career and a life. Gaming is my hobby, and one I'm more than happy to pay the subscription for in the case of WoW.

    I'd prefer to think that Blizzard are catering for my needs as a gamer (on account of them being *dah dah daaaaah* a games developer) rather than some shady amoral gaggle of wankers that want to exploit a real addiction in the same way as (in an extreme example) the smoking cartels do. For me, the two couldn't be more seperate - for you less so. I'm happy to agree to disagree.

    /hands over another £9. :)

  • Drakron #51 6 years ago

    Played WoW for about 2 months.

    Not interrested in returning.

  • Destria #52 6 years ago

    People unable to see the difference between the running costs of a game like Guild Wars, and that of World of Warcraft, are silly.

  • Drakron #53 6 years ago

    There is a diference, Guild Wars is heavy instanced so the servers dont take as much stress as in World of Warcraft were only some dungeons are instances.

    However they both need a lot of severs, maintence cost on GW might be much lower that in WoW but they still spend money in the servers.

    The main diference is that WoW actually have content as GW content is far fewer, lacks any updates (dont compare to GW summer update to WoW main updates, WoW added several entire instances) and unless you are into PvP there is no point in playing the game.

    I think the reason GW is free is because nobody (in its current state) would pay for it.

    Of course that is the reason WoW have a fee ... the support team (GW have a nerf team) and high maintence costs.

  • masterson #54 6 years ago

    My mate also baulked at the cost. I then noted he smokes a pack of snouts a day, which in the UK would cover your sub in 2 days. To each his (or her) own "drug" I guess. I consider the numerous games I have gathering dust on my shelf (at 50 bucks a pop) were more of a waste of money.

    I play quite a lot, mostly because I play with my girlfriend - nice to have a shared interest after all. I also have a job/mortgage/bills etc, so cannot fall into the 16-hour-a-day category even if I wanted to (which I do not incidentally).

    As for value judgements about what a waste of time it is, well fair enough. But to my mind pretty much all hobbies are a waste of time if looked at objectively. Would I be a "better" person if I took up samba dancing/bird watching/restoring old cars/supporting a football team instead? I doubt it very much.

    Video games are a big waste of time and money, one I very much enjoy along with watching movies, listening to music, eating out and smoking joints. I would suggest that anyone who is spending their time reading and posting on a video game forum is in no place no deem this "sad"
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 07:11

  • Destria #55 6 years ago

    The amount of playtime I've got out of my monthly fee is phenomenal, quite simply. In theory, it should be saving me a fortune in not spending money on other games.

    *Looks at still-growing pile of unplayed games*

    Curse my lack of willpower...

  • Mho7276501 #56 6 years ago

    Having played both Guild Wars and WoW quite a lot i can confirm they are totally different games. I wouldnt want to pay subscription for GW as the game itself is quite limited in terms of what you can do. I dont mind paying for WoW as it is constantly being updated and there is always tons of stuff to do aside from just straight questing.

    I am worried about hitting 60 though, i do play the game mostly solo and have no desire to make an alt. Also my character is a rogue and i am told out of all classes this is the worst for the endgame content. I will probably quit at that point, but so far its been a hugely enjoyable game that has taken up more time than anything else i have ever played.

    BTW to the people who use the "get a social life" comments, i do have one, and a long term girlfriend and a well paid job. That also goes for the people in my guild. So shut the fuck up.
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 08:59

  • kangarootoo #57 6 years ago

    What happens at level 60? I know nothing about WoW, so I have to ask daft questions like that.

    All this talk of the "endgame"... when you reach it do you have to drop your character and start another one?

    I'm not going to play this, I simply don't have the time for MMO games, but I'm all curious anyway.

  • KD #58 6 years ago

    I have been on warcrack since a week after release and after 2 months hit lvl 60 with my priest, i was by that point playing it 12 hours for most days (with breaks ofc) and silly amounts on weekends, I raided molten core and got my epic staff then got kicked from the raid for refusing to join the guild that run the raid and ended up quitting my account. A month later i started it back up and got a small guild with just local mates and relatives and quit raiding, it was a nice wake up call and now i play for 2-4 hours in the nights running instances with my mates and not worrying about getting epic gear or beating ragnarous (sp?). Its a much better game to me now, priest burn out should be a recognised medical condition :)

    Edit for spelling
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 09:38

  • Stickman #59 6 years ago

    "People unable to see the difference between the running costs of a game like Guild Wars, and that of World of Warcraft, are silly."

    Or, to use another word, 'stoopid'.

  • reality_cheque #60 6 years ago

    Guild Wars is fun until you've completed all the content or feel like playing PvP. I'll be restarting when the new expansion comes out but that's just because i'm a sucker for plot. And I'm probably about to buy my first copy of WoW - tbh the only thing putting me off is I have so many friends playing on so many different servers I'd have no idea which one to go on.

    Can you have your alt on a different server?

  • mezzomorto #61 6 years ago

    Talking of WoW addiction, check out Episodes 6 & 7 of Pure Pwnage.

    You can download them from the link below

    http://www.pu repwnage.com/episodes.html

  • Ajay #62 6 years ago

    Can you have your alt on a different server?

    You can, I have characters on several different ones and though there's a limit to how many you can have on each server, I don't think there's a limit on how many servers you can create chars on. Useful if you want to split time between a PvP/PvE one, for example.

  • ave #63 6 years ago

    "The whole server (Horde and Alliance) working together and contributing items to the war effort to unlock the Gates of Ahn Quiraj? Yes please. :) "

    I dont think theres any point trying to debate WoW with you, since you think the world event was great.
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 12:17

  • Genji #64 6 years ago

    Nope. I've never played an MMORPG and never want to, because I would never stop. More levels could never make up all the money I would throw into the game.

  • Phattso #65 6 years ago

    I dont think theres any point trying to debate WoW with you, since you think the world event was great.

    Excellent condescending there. Go to the head of the class, that man. :)

    I think that there an huge imbalance between Alliance and Horde numbers (in favour of the former). The quests in Ahn'Qiraj open up the possibilities for the quests to be co-operative between the two. I think that's an interesting and innovative way to resolve an obvious imbalance (the new race in the expansion pack being the other).

    The point I was making is that such a large-scale level of server interation is simply not a feature of games like Guild Wars (which was the title put up against WoW in this thread). And for that I applaud it.

    Did I say it was my "number one uber leet reason for playing WoW"? No.

    But hey - you reach whatever conclusions you want. My comments to this point have been pretty balanced (despite my obvious enjoyment of the game). It'll be no great loss not to have to 'debate' with you further. Have a nice day. :)

  • reality_cheque #66 6 years ago

    I suppose I'll be buying this now then.

    Dammit.

  • ave #67 6 years ago

    "Excellent condescending there. Go to the head of the class, that man. :) "

    How is it being condescending? You think the following is great, and that speaks to your character(ie, wow fanboy):

    The WoW World events team took 1 year to come up with
    "Hey I know, let's make everyone collect completely useless shit, and LOTS of it so they can open another instance!
    No, we dont need quests, or a story, or anything remotely intelligent, we just require them to collect hundreds of thousands of items!"
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 16:16

  • Phattso #68 6 years ago

    As I stated, ave, I was using it as something representative of the larger scale of WoW vs. something like Guild Wars. And if you think that's the one and only thing Blizzad have done to the game in the last year that suggests that you know very little about the game. I'm not an idiot - I'm not going to blindly pay a subscription fee unless I'm getting my moneys worth. I feel that I am. End of story.

    I like the game, I make no bones about it. Am I a fanboy? Well, I don't think so as I've joined many other people in this thread in decrying the fact that the game almost totally loses its way at level 60. The game is far from perfect, but it's still the best experience I've had in many a year.

    Quite why, out of the blue, you should isolate one thing I've said and then lambast me for it I don't know? Especially as I had gone out of my way to be even handed. Preferring one thing over another does not make one a fan boy by any means.

    And as for "speaking to [my] character" there you go again - being condescending. But, since we're going down that road I'd suggest that your responses in this thread speak equally well about your own character. What had been a fairly open and interesting discourse (with other people, not your monosyllibic quips) has now left a sour taste in my mouth - congratulations.

    /edit: removed suggestion that ave lacks character - I don't know the person at all, just visibility to some tosh on a forum thread.
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 16:29

  • ave #69 6 years ago

    "As I stated, ave, I was using it as something representative of the larger scale of WoW vs. something like Guild Wars."
    I'm sure guild wars could easily introduce something like the AQ world event, after all the AQ world event required massive SOLO effort.

    "And if you think that's the one and only thing Blizzad have done to the game in the last year that suggests that you know very little about the game."
    There actually is a "World Events Team", who's only job is world events.
    And that really is the only thing they've come up with so far.
    Which suggests that you're the one who knows less about the game, not me.



    "Quite why, out of the blue, you should isolate one thing I've said and then lambast me for it I don't know? Especially as I had gone out of my way to be even handed. Preferring one thing over another does not make one a fan boy by any means."
    Because I read what you said, and thought it was hilarious.
    You're actually the first person I've ever heard say the AQ event is good(or a good thing about wow), and I idle in 2 wow channels on irc and read the forums semi-regularly.

    "And as for "speaking to [my] character" there you go again - being condescending."
    Saying something is X, without actually giving a reason why - speaks to your character.

    oops, there we go again :(

    "But, since we're going down that road I'd suggest that your responses in this thread speak equally well about your own character. What had been a fairly open and interesting discourse (with other people, not your monosyllibic quips) has now left a sour taste in my mouth - congratulations."
    Oh no, I picked a part of one of your comments that was funny, you dont like it and now you have a sour taste in your mouth :( A site suitable for you
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/06 @ 16:35

  • Phattso #70 6 years ago

    I thought I'd made it quite cleary _why_ I think the Ahn'Quiraj world event is a good thing - clearly that isn't the case so here I go again with my reasons behind the statement:

    Many guilds have deliberately scheduled farming events to collect the materials necessary. Since the materials required are from all levels of the game (low level mobs right up to high level areas) it encourages cooperation between guild members and also many people have re-rolled new lowbies for this purpose (again, mitigating the lack of things to do for many people at 60 by giving them a reason to reroll).

    Also, the event goes beyond just opening the gates - Alliance/Horde cooperation is a theme that Blizzard have suggested they're going to develop significantly in the coming months and with the expansion pack.

    All of these things are knock on effects of "just collecting millions of things." I suppose it just depends on how you look at it. I look at the above and see a good thing encouraging cooperation and activity. The fact that you look at it and just see a waste of time is your perogative - but to find it "hilarious" still seems strange to me.

    And, as an aside, the "World Event Team" is responsible for all the holiday celebrations (Lunar Festival, Winter, New Year, etc. etc.) and is a much smaller team than you seem to think it is.

    But hey - if you want to label me a fan boy and dismiss my (very reasonable) arguments out of hand then that's your affair. I bristle at accusations at fanboyism, though. Always have, always will. Your posts rub me up the wrong way (oo-er) - doesn't mean I've gone cryin' home to momma or anything. :)

  • ave #71 6 years ago

    "Many guilds have deliberately scheduled farming events to collect the materials necessary. Since the materials required are from all levels of the game (low level mobs right up to high level areas) it encourages cooperation between guild members and also many people have re-rolled new lowbies for this purpose (again, mitigating the lack of things to do for many people at 60 by giving them a reason to reroll)."
    Some of that doesnt make sense, particularly(sorry, have to paraphrase)
    "The AQ world event is a good thing, because it gives lvl60's something to do, like rolling a new character to collect items"
    That just doesnt make much sense to me.

    The guild farming thing may be going on, I havent really seen it, but again it's adding a repetetive(filler) task just to open a new dungeon(and any guild that does BWL/MC/Onyxia doesnt really need more co-operation.)
    It almost seems as if they're trying to do anything to stop 60's quitting before the new expansion.

    Also, the event goes beyond just opening the gates - Alliance/Horde cooperation is a theme that Blizzard have suggested they're going to develop significantly in the coming months and with the expansion pack.
    Sorry, here I'll just foam at the mouth about how ****ing lazy blizzard were going with a Red vs Blue system in WoW(the simple/easy/lazy option)

    I loved wc1/2, quite liked wc3 and was really, really let down to find that races had been randomly lumped together to form two great sides, it's also bad in many many ways for gameplay.

  • gaijin #72 6 years ago

    d'ya know what, I think you guys have got more in common than dividing you. You both love that WoW, you just show the love in different ways. Now there's a nice happy Sesame St ending...


    /goes to hang with Cookie Monster

  • Phattso #73 6 years ago

    Some of that doesnt make sense, particularly(sorry, have to paraphrase)
    "The AQ world event is a good thing, because it gives lvl60's something to do, like rolling a new character to collect items" That just doesnt make much sense to me.

    Well, the clearest example would be this: I've been teetering on the brink of rolling myself a Warlock but (as I mentioned earlier) I'm attached to my 60 Hunter and enjoy playing it. The low-level farming for the AQ War Effort was the straw that broke the camels back, and tipped me over the brink and I created the character (now level twenty something). I'm finding it a lot of fun - I'd taken a couple of other classes up to 30 but didn't really get on with them, and so was pleased that a Warlock was fun for me to play. Without the AQ thang, it's possible that I might not have bothered.

    The guild farming thing may be going on, I havent really seen it, but again it's adding a repetetive(filler) task just to open a new dungeon(and any guild that does BWL/MC/Onyxia doesnt really need more co-operation.)

    Oh, I'm not saying it isn't repetetive. But an aversion to repetition in a MMORPG is pretty fatal, so let's not single this one thing out for abuse for that. ;-)

    Guilds that raid MC are fairly hardcore. The point of most discussion (for me) in this thread is the dearth of activities post-60 for the casual player. The War Effort is something I can dip in and out of, and so suits my playing style. My Warlock would have been grinding something for its levels, now it's at least grinding something with a purpose, no matter how hilarious you find it. ;)

    It almost seems as if they're trying to do anything to stop 60's quitting before the new expansion.

    I would say that's _exactly_ what they're doing. Were you expecting anything different?

    Sorry, here I'll just foam at the mouth about how ****ing lazy blizzard were going with a Red vs Blue system in WoW(the simple/easy/lazy option)

    I loved wc1/2, quite liked wc3 and was really, really let down to find that races had been randomly lumped together to form two great sides, it's also bad in many many ways for gameplay.

    Well, there had to be a compromise to support its goals of accessibility but I too share some consternation with how they had to be very heavy handed with the black marker and tippex to get it all making sense in terms of the lore.

    Bugger - I just said something anti-Blizzard; I may have to check my fanboi credentials at the door.

  • ave #74 6 years ago

    Warlocks a nice choice, up to ~40 you'll die alot though, but it's pretty much a magic using hunter(unfortunately no escape spell though) in PVE.

    PVP is where warlocks really shine though, 1v1 they're pretty much unbeatable :)

  • Phattso #75 6 years ago

    Warlocks a nice choice, up to ~40 you'll die alot though.

    It's holding its own thus far - I think a lot of my Hunter survival instincts (i.e. knowing when to run like buggery from certain situations) are helping out here. I'm gonna miss Feign Death, though!

    PVP is where warlocks really shine though, 1v1 they're pretty much unbeatable :)

    If only I had the time to spend hours in the queue for Battlegrounds. I tried a couple of PvP servers last year, but the ganking really did ruin it for me so I retreated to the Shadowsong PvE server.

    On the subject of unbeatable Warlocks, I found this pretty funny: http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.asp x?fn=wow-general-en&t=817077

    It was linked on the WoW Europe site the other day. :)

    Anyways - I hope I've sufficiently demonstrated why AQ isn't a total waste of time for all players. Give a thought to the poor bastards with only a couple of hours a week to play next time you're raiding MC. ;)

  • warlockuk #76 6 years ago

    They've also put the AQ quests in as a way of gaining items and reputation too. At the moment most people grind runecloth to turn in wherever they want reputation. Now they get tokens to chip in.

    It's the same with other world events - the Lunar festival gives you 50 rep on all Alliance / Horde (depending what side you are) factions per guy you visit, and there's about 50 of them, so that's between 1/2 and 1/4 (depending how high up you are) of XP for all factions practically gratis.

    There were similar things for the Halloween and Christmas world events - you got rewards in the form of food items with loads of buffs - the Christmas parallel festival gave you mistletoe that added 20 Spirit.

    And there's a Valentine's day-esque fest starting soon too. So... the overall world events are kinda not all crap. The AQ one is linked to a dungeon, for sure, but you get more back for the turnins. Rep, buffing scrolls, armour and junk like that... All for harvesting some cloth or ore. The game is mostly about grinding with a social element overlaid, so any flavour they add to it is welcome.

  • Somedude #77 6 years ago

    Thing about Blizzard and WoW is this:
    They are good at creating games, very very good in fact. WoW is an absolutely incredible game.
    They are also bad at support, very very bad. Check out the WoW forums for one horror story after another.

    The 'recent' login issues have been happening since oh... the day the game was released. Seriously. It gets better then worse then better. WoW has a long history of horrendous servers and login issues and such. And if you need support from them for anything, oh God help you, your gonna need it.

    Incredible game, near criminal support.

  • Saint_of_Killers #78 6 years ago

    I didn't realise all 5 million people paid £9 or whatever...I was told the pay structure was different in the east (handled by a third party, and people buying game time in hours rather than months).

    The waiting to get in to the game isn't so bad. It's at its worse on a Friday night and then is back to normal by Sunday. Longest wait I've had on Turalyon (a full server) is about 11 mins.

    Blizz shut quite a few of the servers down -in January I think- and made any new people, registering for the first time, sign up to new/non-full servers. This situation has now been resolved and most (one or two ar still closed to new players) servers are back up for new members to join.