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Mike Grasso of 911 Interview

PC PlayStation 2 GameCube Xbox GameBoy Advance PSOne Dreamcast
Interview by Gestalt

22 July, 2002

One of the aims of the latest installment in the Rainbow Six series has been to maintain the sense of realism, as lead designer Mike McCoy told us in our interview with him last week. It's not just a case of using the Unreal engine to produce more immersive environments, but also fine tuning the gameplay and making sure that the weaponry and the actions of both your own men and the enemy are believable.

As part of this effort, Ubi Soft Montreal have brought back Rainbow Six technical consultants 911. We caught up with one of the company's team of advisors, Mike Grasso, at a recent press event in exotic Slough.

Rap Sheet

'Mike Grasso of 911' Screenshot e302b

Amazing, a Rainbow Six game where your cunning plan isn't foiled by a closed door.

While many developers talk about realism, Ubi Soft have gone straight to the source for Raven Shield. 911 was founded way back in 1984 by a group of law enforcement veterans who have worked in a wide range of roles for everyone from the LAPD to the US Navy SEALs. Since then they have provided weapons training, tactical advice and other services for dozens of movies and TV series.

"We've worked on several Schwarzenegger films and several Sean Connery films. We've done some genre films, some westerns; we did all the weapons for Unforgiven, American Outlaws (which recently came out), and Young Guns, if you remember that. We did some period pieces, like The Untouchables with Sean Connery. And we've got a couple of new films coming out later this year, one of them being National Security."

Mike himself has over two decades of law enforcement experience, "which really helps" in his work on Rainbow Six. When he's not working on videogames and flying around Europe talking to journalists, he serves as a senior tactical instructor for the LAPD, as well as moonlighting for a US Marshalls task force. "In 22 years I've worked everything from undercover narcotics to warrant entry teams to bicycle details to homicide investigator and crash officer. I have a very well rounded education when it comes to the street, but specialising in tactics."

LA Takedown

'Mike Grasso of 911' Screenshot mar01b

Rainbow in action

Although 911 have worked on everything from the cult Vietnam war series Tour Of Duty to blockbuster movies like The Rock and Total Recall, perhaps the single most impressive credit on their list is Michael Mann's heist thriller Heat. As anyone who's seen the movie knows, Heat includes one of the most spectacular gun battles ever committed to film, as Robert De Niro's team of criminals takes on Al Pacino and the LAPD, automatic weapons blazing in the streets of downtown Los Angeles. Mike isn't joking when he tells us that "it really shows what damage and devestation can occur".

As he had explained earlier in the day, the idea in this scene was to get the two sides to act differently, something which has carried over into their work on AI behaviour for Raven Shield. In Heat, the criminals may be skilled at what they do, but they have no weapons training. Because of this the police are smoother and more precise, firing off a few rounds and then ducking behind cover, while the criminals fire wildly in an attempt to cause panic to let them escape into the crowd, and make mistakes like standing out in the open reloading. "If all you did is watch films and play videogames and you don't have the training, when you come up against people who don't play videogames but do it for a living every day... that's an eye-opener for most people".

This was demonstrated in spectacular form when, just two years after the release of Heat, a real bank robbery went terribly wrong in another district of Los Angeles, leading to an eerily similar shoot-out between a pair of masked men with assault rifles and the LAPD. The first cops on the scene had only their sidearms to defend themselves with, and yet, although several police officers and civilians were wounded in the ensuing chaos, none were killed. The robbers were less lucky - both suspects were shot dead on the scene.

Moral Connection

'Mike Grasso of 911' Screenshot e315b

That'll be the bad guy then

As Mike admitted, "life has a tendency to imitate art sometimes", but is there a wider link between violence in videogames or movies and real life? "I think that there probably is some kind of connection between the two", Mike told us. "[But] I think it's the moral connection that should be looked at more than anything else."

"That's why we bought into the Tom Clancy universe, because in [Rainbow Six] you only get to be the moral person. You can't be the bad guy. You're bound by a certain set of rules and you have to operate within them so that everybody goes home safe. There are other games out there that'll let you do everything and anything under the sun, and it actually gets boring playing those games. If you're limited to what you can do, you have to be really good at it."

It's no surprise then that the Rainbow Six games are the only ones that Mike plays regularly. "I've got a lot of things going on, I don't really have the time [to play games], and my wife would kill me! I do play Rainbow Six games, [but] I don't play them single player, I play multiplayer with a bunch of my friends. And now we're playing multiplayer with the programmers up in Montreal and having a grand time."

Is This Real

'Mike Grasso of 911' Screenshot e309b

I've run out of witty captions, so just add your own.

Obviously 911 are doing more for their money than deathmatching with the developers, and this time round they've been more closely involved in the design process than in previous games in the series. "The first two Rainbow Six games we helped out and did some work on, and now that we've come back we've really come back in force. We've been here from the beginning of this third title, and we actually helped design most of the stuff that you can see."

"Ubi Soft has given us a lot of input. Basically they run things by us, we run things by them, and then we're allowed to pull things out if we bring a strong enough argument, and if there's a strong enough argument of why it needs to be in then we'll work it out. But they really want to go into a realistic mode, and that's why they've brought us in."

"The Tom Clancy franchise is such a grand franchise in itself, that when you go ahead and add more realism to it, it just gets better. You can play other games, but there's no basis in fact, and it's written by a bunch of people that have seen other games. It's different if you're playing a game where the programmers actually went to a school and practiced some of these things, so they got a feel for what it was really like."

To Be Continued...

So how is the latest game in the Rainbow Six series shaping up, and has the input of Mike Grasso and his colleagues at 911 made a difference? Have Mike McCoy and his team in Montreal managed to achieve their aim of producing a true Rainbow Six : Version Three, while making the game a little less intimidating for newcomers? Come back tomorrow, when we'll be bringing you a full hands-on preview of the game.

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Comments: 1-20 of 20 in total

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IgWannA
22/07/02 @ 13:12
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it's more like a movie review than anything :o
skalmanxl
22/07/02 @ 15:24
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a real bank robbery went terribly wrong in another district of Los Angeles, leading to an eerily similar shoot-out between a pair of masked men with assault rifles and the LAPD

I've seen that shootout on TV, it was just wicked.
Gestalt
22/07/02 @ 15:32
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Yeah, the whole thing was apparently live on TV, even though the robbers decided to have a go at shooting up the TV helicopters. Yeesh...
skalmanxl
22/07/02 @ 15:39
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Wasn't one of them suited up in armour like a knight?
skalmanxl
22/07/02 @ 15:45
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Well, I think he was wearing to much body armour (no, not kevlar) that he actually looked like a knight.
Gestalt
22/07/02 @ 19:01
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Gotta love America. :)
otto [mod]
26/07/02 @ 12:57
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Anyone see that Embassy Siege documentary last night?

Pretty bloody shocking if you ask me.
ssuellid
26/07/02 @ 13:31
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"Pretty bloody shocking if you ask me."

In what way?

I missed the first 15 minutes but the rest was pretty interesting.

otto [mod]
26/07/02 @ 13:39
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In what way?

Seems to me they owned up to cold-blooded murder. And that comment from Dennis Thatcher made my skin crawl. Basically we're being told that the operation was intended as an execution from the start, endorsed by the PM herself no less. Except the UK doesn't have the death penalty. In theory at least. I could have understood it if the hostages were at risk but one terrorist was shot in an otherwise empty room, two were shot while waving a white flag having thrown down their weapons. That's not a civilised way of dealing with the issue.
Whizzo
26/07/02 @ 13:39
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Very impressed with the siege documentary, brought back so many memories of then.

Didn't have any sympathy with the guys they executed in the telex room, they had already killed one hostage in the room and shot some of the others and the SAS made sure permanently that they couldn't do anything more. I notice the hostage who had been shot 6 times didn't feel to sorry about it.
otto [mod]
26/07/02 @ 13:43
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Whizzo, thought you might feel that way. I'm just not comfortable when the state dispenses with human rights like that. I have no sympathy for the terrorists at all, but I thought the whole point of our society was that we're above all that. We can deal with situations without resorting to the sacrifice of fundamental human rights. It would have been just as easy to disarm the bastards and put them on trial, just like they did with the fifth one who's still in chokey. Hmm, a bit heavy for a Friday lunchtime but it left me feeling sick to my stomach, frankly.
Whizzo
26/07/02 @ 13:50
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The point was there was no way of knowing whether they had any concealed weapons or grenades. It could have been quite easy for one of them to try and surrender and drop a grenade in a crowded room. By moving them quickly away from everyone and then killing them stopped them from being able to do anything else. The point really is the police mission was a failure as it came so close to ending peacefully and yet one terrorist's stupidity and one hostage's bravado ended up with the SAS having to be let off their leash.

The terrorist's mission was bloody pointless in the first place, I didn't realise it was Iraqi backed though, but once they started killing people there was no way it was going to finish without more people getting hurt.

Making sure that the terrorists didn't survive may well have detered other international groups from trying anything similar, which appears to have worked so far.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 26/07/02 @ 14:51
FWB
26/07/02 @ 13:55
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I didn't see the show, but in regards to human rights: I am a fan of the death penalty (I'm not going to go into details about where and when I support it), but I also acknowledge our country doesn't have it (except for treason and merely trying to kill the Queen, I believe). Thus, if what you guys are saying is true about the incident, that it was setup to be an execution, then that is plain wrong. If we did have capital punishment in place for such crimes, then I could have more sympathy for the way it was handled (although I would be against the death penalty for taking hostages).
otto [mod]
26/07/02 @ 13:56
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->Whizzo:

I see what you're saying, it still left me feeling soiled though. It's no surprise that the SAS boys felt comfortable with what happened, or that the police negotiators felt they had failed (they *had*), but the reaction of the politicians sickened me. It's as if they were glad that it ended in a bloodbath.

-> FWB:

Even if the UK had the death penalty, one would still expect due process. You can't just send in a death squad.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 26/07/02 @ 14:57
FWB
26/07/02 @ 14:01
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Even if the UK had the death penalty, one would still expect due process. You can't just send in a death squad.

Correct, but that's why I said I would could possibly have more sympathy for what occurred, not support it out-right.

the reaction of the politicians sickened me. It's as if they were glad that it ended in a bloodbath.

Nothing like a bloodbath (providing you win, obviously) to get the voters behind you.



Mr Sleep
26/07/02 @ 14:12
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(except for treason and merely trying to kill the Queen, I believe)

Apparenly so, death by hanging is still the method of death for someone commiting treason, could that be applied to Peter Stringfellow is questionable, worth a try though i think.
Whizzo
26/07/02 @ 14:18
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There is no death penalty in the UK for anything now, it was removed when Labour took control.
st3ph3n
26/07/02 @ 14:21
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Otto, how did you see said programme? I despise the BBC letting non-licence paying foreigners watch things they force me to pay for when I don't want them. Anyway, you take a hostage you loose the right to be a human, therefore you don't have human rights. Easy.
otto [mod]
26/07/02 @ 14:23
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Otto, how did you see said programme? I despise the BBC letting non-licence paying foreigners watch things they force me to pay for when I don't want them.

I pay for it via my cable subscription. Don't worry, we furriners ain't gettin it for free. :)
Mr Sleep
26/07/02 @ 14:25
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There is no death penalty in the UK for anything now, it was removed when Labour took control.

Really?! I didn't know that, so i could go and kill the queen and not be strung up...hmmm...

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