Mike Grasso of 911 Comments by Gestalt

it's more like a movie review than anything :o

a real bank robbery went terribly wrong in another district of Los Angeles, leading to an eerily similar shoot-out between a pair of masked men with assault rifles and the LAPD

I've seen that shootout on TV, it was just wicked.

Yeah, the whole thing was apparently live on TV, even though the robbers decided to have a go at shooting up the TV helicopters. Yeesh...

Wasn't one of them suited up in armour like a knight?

Well, I think he was wearing to much body armour (no, not kevlar) that he actually looked like a knight.

Gotta love America. :)

Anyone see that Embassy Siege documentary last night?

Pretty bloody shocking if you ask me.

"Pretty bloody shocking if you ask me."

In what way?

I missed the first 15 minutes but the rest was pretty interesting.

In what way?

Seems to me they owned up to cold-blooded murder. And that comment from Dennis Thatcher made my skin crawl. Basically we're being told that the operation was intended as an execution from the start, endorsed by the PM herself no less. Except the UK doesn't have the death penalty. In theory at least. I could have understood it if the hostages were at risk but one terrorist was shot in an otherwise empty room, two were shot while waving a white flag having thrown down their weapons. That's not a civilised way of dealing with the issue.

Very impressed with the siege documentary, brought back so many memories of then.

Didn't have any sympathy with the guys they executed in the telex room, they had already killed one hostage in the room and shot some of the others and the SAS made sure permanently that they couldn't do anything more. I notice the hostage who had been shot 6 times didn't feel to sorry about it.

Whizzo, thought you might feel that way. I'm just not comfortable when the state dispenses with human rights like that. I have no sympathy for the terrorists at all, but I thought the whole point of our society was that we're above all that. We can deal with situations without resorting to the sacrifice of fundamental human rights. It would have been just as easy to disarm the bastards and put them on trial, just like they did with the fifth one who's still in chokey. Hmm, a bit heavy for a Friday lunchtime but it left me feeling sick to my stomach, frankly.

The point was there was no way of knowing whether they had any concealed weapons or grenades. It could have been quite easy for one of them to try and surrender and drop a grenade in a crowded room. By moving them quickly away from everyone and then killing them stopped them from being able to do anything else. The point really is the police mission was a failure as it came so close to ending peacefully and yet one terrorist's stupidity and one hostage's bravado ended up with the SAS having to be let off their leash.

The terrorist's mission was bloody pointless in the first place, I didn't realise it was Iraqi backed though, but once they started killing people there was no way it was going to finish without more people getting hurt.

Making sure that the terrorists didn't survive may well have detered other international groups from trying anything similar, which appears to have worked so far.

I didn't see the show, but in regards to human rights: I am a fan of the death penalty (I'm not going to go into details about where and when I support it), but I also acknowledge our country doesn't have it (except for treason and merely trying to kill the Queen, I believe). Thus, if what you guys are saying is true about the incident, that it was setup to be an execution, then that is plain wrong. If we did have capital punishment in place for such crimes, then I could have more sympathy for the way it was handled (although I would be against the death penalty for taking hostages).

->Whizzo:

I see what you're saying, it still left me feeling soiled though. It's no surprise that the SAS boys felt comfortable with what happened, or that the police negotiators felt they had failed (they *had*), but the reaction of the politicians sickened me. It's as if they were glad that it ended in a bloodbath.

-> FWB:

Even if the UK had the death penalty, one would still expect due process. You can't just send in a death squad.

Even if the UK had the death penalty, one would still expect due process. You can't just send in a death squad.

Correct, but that's why I said I would could possibly have more sympathy for what occurred, not support it out-right.

the reaction of the politicians sickened me. It's as if they were glad that it ended in a bloodbath.

Nothing like a bloodbath (providing you win, obviously) to get the voters behind you.

(except for treason and merely trying to kill the Queen, I believe)

Apparenly so, death by hanging is still the method of death for someone commiting treason, could that be applied to Peter Stringfellow is questionable, worth a try though i think.

There is no death penalty in the UK for anything now, it was removed when Labour took control.

Otto, how did you see said programme? I despise the BBC letting non-licence paying foreigners watch things they force me to pay for when I don't want them. Anyway, you take a hostage you loose the right to be a human, therefore you don't have human rights. Easy.

Otto, how did you see said programme? I despise the BBC letting non-licence paying foreigners watch things they force me to pay for when I don't want them.

I pay for it via my cable subscription. Don't worry, we furriners ain't gettin it for free. :)

There is no death penalty in the UK for anything now, it was removed when Labour took control.

Really?! I didn't know that, so i could go and kill the queen and not be strung up...hmmm...