Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe Comments by Gestalt

"Microsoft has a long history of providing great products that address Europeans' specific needs"

Bollocks. If they'd done half an ounce of research, they would have seen that £300 was too high a price. Yeah, the PS2 launched at £300, but the present market doesn't support this price. Nintendo got it right, why didn't MS?

"Many of our publishing and development partners - like Peter Molyneux's Lionhead Studios, Infogrames and Codemasters - are based in Europe, and we think Xbox will again demonstrate our commitment to giving European gamers better games than they've seen on any other console to date"

So why is it that games developed in Europe get NTSC releases first and are optimised for NTSC from the ground up? GTA3, anyone?

"There were additional costs, such as shipping and taxes, that were reflected in the price", according to Paul

For the nth time, what, shipping from Hungary?? Cube & PS2 ship from the Far East you plonker! And *what* bleeding taxes? VAT? That's 21% TOPS you muppet!!

God when *will* they learn to stop making these ridiculous excuses!

It was cheaper to buy a Jap XBox with a game and pay for shipping and import taxes than it was to buy an XBox in Europe. But the lying bastard can hardly admit that the were ripping us off.

seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo.

For those of you that did pay the £300, trade in two first party titles at GAME and use that as a nice downpayment on the Cube.

Then claim the games back again.

[miffo] - 03-May-2002
seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo.


From a price perspective, yes. From a "not taking the piss" perspective, yes.

"seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo." it all depends on how long we have to wait for PAL conversions, how good the conversions are and which titles they can be bothered to convert.

I wish Microsoft would just admit they were wrong about the pricing. The true test of someone's character is when they come clean when they make a mistake.

Anyway Sony it's your move now..

Gosh, did i actually interpret that interview in such a way that Microsoft almost admitted they flamingo'd up?
Blimey.
Have to say though, it worked on me - i bought a 'box last weekend...

Mentat you bad boy. Green stained lips now mate!

I know.
But to redeem myself, i still have a dc (and still play it) a ps2, a slightly old and getting a bit knackered pc, and was looking longingly at a GC this lunchtime, so at least i can't be called a Fanboy!

;-)

I have a beast PC to play MOHAA, Xbox and [today] the GC. I traded in the PS2 for the Xbox and don't really miss it. Bit sad I didn't get to play Ico, but that's the price you pay.

Of the 'box games, Rallisport, Halo and Amped are the ones I'm enjoying most. Awaiting Morrowind and SW : Knights on the 'box and anything 1st party on the Cube!

In fairness, I doubt it's Foxy's decision to excuse the original price in this way. His orders almost undoubtedly come from higher up the chain. I've not met him personally, but like Seamus Blackley, Jay Allard and quite a lot of the other public Xbox figures, I understand he's actually a thoroughly nice bloke...

We have an incredibly strong line-up of games which will keep gamers excited and interested in the gameplay that is only possible to achieve with the Xbox

Sure, keep repeating yourself that and you might actually belive in it yourself.

i bought the 'box with Halo and Rallisport.
Not sure about PGR and JSRF cos i have MSR and JSR on DC.
Like Halo, good fun no-brainer type game to blast on when you get home from work. Still trying to get the hang of Rallisport, made tricky by the fact i've been playing GT3 constantly over the last few weeks.
Might look into getting a cube in a couple of months maybe, depends on what games come out for it.

Just a shame, then, who they have (or had) holding their leash.

I'm prepared to give M$ some slack, because they saw an issue, acted and offered some form of rebate to early adopters.

Lets just hope they release the S-type controllers over here pretty soon. As a debut into the console market, they've got a good system, they've listened to developers, they've got the right goods in the box, the 1st gen games are pretty spot-on.

Alas, the packaging on the controllers suck.

[mentat] - I have MSR as well but PGR is different enough to get as well. Its quite a bit quicker but its seems a lot easier. Another good reason to get PGR is that you have the gaming advantage over any PGR owner who does not have MSR.

Super Stu,

I agree that the price was too high for the X Box initially but to compare it to the Cube isn't really fair. The Cube doesn't play DVDs, doesn't have a built-in hard drive and doesn't have built-in Ethernet capability. Now yes, you're gonna say that you can't use the ethernet capability right now but it will happen. The DVD playback and the hard disk easily account for a vast amount of the "added value" of the X Box.

That said it was unrealistic of Microsoft to expect us to swallow a £300 price point in the current market. I don't really care anyway - getting my Cube in 2 hours. Wheeee!

Does anyone here think that either the GC or XB will be able to give the ps2 a run for its money by christmas?
I imagine the GC will manage shift quite a few boxes to to the under 12 demographic alone, and the PS2 will probably come down in price to further extend its installed user base. I can't quite see where the x-box fits in right now though...

I dunno FeZZ, it feels good for some games, but not for others. THPS it's a nightmare to use, it just feels too bulky.

Does anyone here think that either the GC or XB will be able to give the ps2 a run for its money by christmas?

No. I'm sure the GC will sell loads, but I don't think anyone will be able to catch the PS2 now. Not sure about the Xbox.. I think we'll have to wait and see on that one (in Europe at least).

ssuellid - To be honest i wasn't overly enamoured (SP?) with MSR. It used to annoy me because it would penalise you when you were in front and the people behind would come steaming up to hit you so that they wouldn't have to brake. That drove me mad, so i got fed up with it. Does PGR do the same thing?

Sony seem to have cracked the mainstream market with the PS2 and I doubt that the GC or XBox will even come close in hardware sales. A lot of PS2 owners I know are not traditional gamers or even casual gamers. I think that both MS and Nintendo will sell more titles per console than Sony can ever hope to do with the PS2.

The AI in PGR is a lot better than MSR and the computer cars seem to actually drive around rather than just ramming you.

The PS2 is way ahead now and I doubt anyone will catch it.

Xbox and Nintendo will probably share an equal second place with an equal selection of AAA exclusive titles to keep the punters happy. I think the market is big enough now to support all three systems, with the ensuing price war, you may see people having two systems.

Well if it's better, i might rent PGR out to try, cos i did like the concept of MSR.
As for rallisport, jaa, what do you mean by rattling?
The rumble pack rumbles...

I just bought an Xbox after the price drop (and after shaking off my residual prejudices about Microsoft) - I've had an American/Jap Gamecube since November last year, and I can't say I've touched it for the past few months. It seems to be suffering an N64 drought of original AAA titles, just a lot of ports of mediocre PS2 games.
I'll have to hang on for Starfox and Mario (A bloody long wait it's been).
I am glued to the Xbox, however, and am enamoured with Halo and JSRF - it's a damn ugly beast but I'm becoming quite attached.

Poor old M$ - damned if they do, damned if they don't. They should get credit for the rewarding of early adopters and the subsequent prompt response. I posted the reply form on tuesday and got my games and controller yesterday (thurs). Anyone remember Sony's lacklustre response to initial PS2 hardware failures?

Don't get any strange rattles with my controller Jaa, soz mate.

Jaa, it might just be the rumble pack. I too only have one controller, but i haven't noticed it. I'll make sure to take note over the weekend. Course it might all be down to the car you drive and how you drive it. I know in GT3 the rumble pack rumbles all the time for some cars, but not others.

"my controller (I have just one, for the moment) does a terrible rattling noise almost all the time"

Ah that'll be the shoddy MS workmanship ;)

(don't flame me, I'm just kidding, I'm using a very nicely put together MS branded mouse & keyboard at this very moment!)

heh, er no, I'm quite happy with my beige MS-flavour PC for the moment ta

I agree that the price was too high for the X Box initially but to compare it to the Cube isn't really fair. The Cube doesn't play DVDs, doesn't have a built-in hard drive and doesn't have built-in Ethernet capability. Now yes, you're gonna say that you can't use the ethernet capability right now but it will happen. The DVD playback and the hard disk easily account for a vast amount of the "added value" of the X Box.

Just to add that as far as I recall, the Xbox doesn't play DVDs out of the box. You still have the buy the DVD playback kit (the remote control and memory card) to enable DVD playback. That'll add another £20-£30 to the price.

"we typically don't provide sales breakdowns on a regional basis"

Then what was that bruhaha a few weeks ago? Customers deserve to know what the figures are so they can avoid putting their money into a failing product.

Alas, the packaging on the controllers suck.

Agreed, one shouldn't have to cut oneself trying to open the thing without a protective suit and a huge pair of clippers.

The controller-s is needed, not everyone is comfortable with the default one. I'd actually like to see a overhaul of the existing controller too, the diamond is just horrible.

we typically don't provide sales breakdowns on a regional basis

Didn't they give out this when they bragged about the sales in the US, and to a lesser extent in Japan?

"Didn't they give out this when they bragged about the sales in the US"

Yes. Obviously that was .. *cough* .. atypical though. ;)

"Just to add that as far as I recall, the Xbox doesn't play DVDs out of the box"

Fair enough. But the GC doesnt allow for virtually unlimited game saves out of the box. And no I dont feel like doing the math to see how much that would add to the GCs price ;)..

Bah! I don't need a memory card, the current launch games are short enough to complete in one sitting ;).

That aside, what happens if your hard disk breaks down? :p ;).

I expect the cube will go the same way as the N64 judging by what I see happening here in the US.

That's actually a good thing, since the N64 was a success, specially in the US and sold well over 40 million units as far as I know.

Adrian, you again. Would you please mind telling us what important game developer you are working at? This way, we can judge whether Nintendo should really be scared, or whether you're just bragging and just don't like Nintendo.

Edit: Obviously, you've been studying the market for longer than anyone here already. Proof: "most of its big [titles] aimed almost squarely at the younger market or Japanese market."

Gnnh.

(TBH, I fear it's just you and your personal dislike, 's all.)

From what I've heard from developers they tend to prefer the XBox since it opens up far more possilities than other consoles rather than any particular allegiance to a company. Microsoft seem to be fairly geared up in term of providing developers with what they need, one of Nintendo's historic failings.

Apart from it's weight I personally find the XBox to be far more conveniant to the DVD, CD playing/ MP3 ripping. I can't be bothered with memory cards most of the time. Then againg I praise Nintendos focus on making a very nice economic console however Nintendo have allways dismissed Europe, far more than Microsoft.

As for taxes, consoles will be more expensive than in Europe but not to the extent MS and others may have you believe.

We certainly won't be developing for it unless publishers show more interest.

You should have a seat on the board with that depth of strategic thinking. ;)

Being the webdetective I am...our friend Adrian work for Lightspeed games. For being a game company, their website sure is the worst one I've ever seen in the biz. I hope the guy who did that site is fired.

Besides, half the team seems to come from Iceland judging by some of the names.

I wish XBox fans would stop going on about the hard disc. It's like those that go on about how many bits their processor is, or how much RAM it's got, except a hard disc is even less likely to make a significant difference. For me the hard disc means I can save ~20 quid on a memory card. On the other hand, it makes the console more expensive (though that's largely been rectified), heavier, more fragile and more likely to break down over time.

The hard disc makes hacking the Xbox better, but I don't do that sort of thing and besides, you could build a smaller better looking PC quite easily.

I'm not knocking the Xbox - it has some great fun, wonderful looking games on it and more in the works, and the ethernet port is a real bonus, but until I start seeing some games that just couldn't have been made without the hard disc it won't be a selling point for me.

Why is it that every American that comes to this site has to slag off the Cube? I really don't see what they've got to be so aggressive about. Are there any Americans out there who *don't* hate the Cube? There must be some, it seems to be selling OK over there. I'm sure I wouldn't be half so negatively disposed towards the xbox if it weren't for the legions of so-called fans who pile in on these boards detracting the other two consoles. Can't the xbox sell itself on its own merits? Why keep going on and on and ON about the apparent deficiencies of the competition (apparent only to yourselves it seems)?

Having just bought a new computer with Windows XP on it, I have decided to never buy a M$ product again. Ever.

"Having just bought a new computer with Windows XP on it, I have decided to never buy a M$ product again. Ever."

Is it really all that bad? I've been using it for a couple of months now and have had no major problems. Well, apart from 3dsmax crashing horribly.

Well it's good just to hear the other side of the story - I sometimes feel a bit guilty for the rough ride we give the Yanks here sometimes and it does us all good to hear from the 'normal' ones (i.e. the intelligent and thoughtful ones) so don't feel shy about posting, I guess others would agree with me.

Yay! A normal-like US person. Finally.

Regarding the article:
the in-built hard drive

Seriously, I'm having an english test tomorrow, and this kind of writing doesn't do me ANY good. 'k, Gestalt? ;)

In-built is perfectly valid although most people would use built-in, oh the joys of the English language!

I'm afraid "in-built" is quite valid English. :) And on a sidenote, you're writing tests on Saturdays? What a cruel country.

No! Damn you, Whizzo! Arrr.