High Street Blues Comments by Rob Fahey

Yeah I work in retail and indeed times are tough. I can no longer afford every full price purchase I want to make and 2nd hand is a life saver at times for me. I no longer have time to play games all day anyways so I am being more selective in what I purchase. The likes of Woolworths and Zavvi, in gaming terms, could never compete anyway. Their prices were ridiculous for games and they were completely out of touch with the competition. Shame to see them go all the same.

What would be wrong with bricks-and-mortar shops being repositories for second-hand games originally bought online? They make a bigger margin on preowned than they do on new games anyway.

Don't forget the impact the supermarkets are also having - a lot of the time they are matching and sometimes even beating the online prices. And you can buy frosties and cakes at the same time!

The wider question is why physical retail for digital goods really exists anyway. Not in the sense of no longer selling boxed goods - plenty of people still expect this - but why whole industries still take a digital file, burn it onto DVD, put it in a box, ship it to several warehouses, put them in lorries and shop them to stores. The technology exists for media to be printed in site, making that very expensive supply chain redundant. Personally, I think that's the only way to really compete with online.

Stuart - Increasingly, second-hand games are useless because of online registration, DRM, and so forth. Even where this is not the case, online trading on Amazon Marketplace, Ebay, Playtrade &c. can still undercut the high street's hilarious prices...

digital distribution (unburdened with drm) is the future. imagine how many lorries could be kept off the roads if people weren't obsessed with shiny boxes and displaying their games/dvds/cds on vast shelves in their rooms?
it really is just shallow to take pride in a rack of boxes. one ipod cotaining 500 well ripped cd's impresses me far more than a big wall of shite.
same day worldwide launch of games/music/dvds via digital distribution wont be far away. I can even see cinema becoming mostly redundant and blockbuster movies being premiered online eventually (if hollywood got its shit together)

Ahhh the joys of Woolies and overpriced games.

I remember during the N64 days and one game being on the shelf for £54.99 and its sequel being next to it for £34.99...

I remember during the N64 days and one game being on the shelf for £54.99

Yeah, I remember those days. I might be wrong, but I don't think online was a viable competitor back then.

For the short term at least, Woolworths closing and Zavvi having problems have lead to loads of gaming bargains for me. With 70% game sales at Woolworths and now 25% off at Zavvi, I've bought about 50 brand new games combined since Christmas, including two new consoles, so as a gamer, I'm better off at the moment.

Yeah, Woolworths & Zavvi were stupidly overpriced for games & Blu-Rays. I'd walk in, take one look at the price tag & go to HMV & get the same thing a fiver cheaper. They couldn't even compete with other B&M stores, let alone online.

t8yman, I still prefer to have something tangible in my hand. I wouldn't mind paying for downloads so much if they weren't so bloody expensive, even half the price you'd pay in the shops is too much; surely the overheads in digital distribution are almost negligible?

I have to say I have made the transition to online and have for a few years. Now I would say 98% of my games and films are from the likes of play.com, hmv.com, gamestation.co.uk and game.co.uk then used is generally gamestation.co.uk, cex.co.uk and of course ebay.co.uk.

Add this up with cashback from quidco and you are saving a fortune compared to the high street, never mind the parking costs etc to get to these places.

The problem is now that I am young and this is expected, but now my parents are asking me to find them things and they would have always gone the to shops in the past.

As for digital distribution on site, I remember when I was younger that my dad took me to an eidos shop for some amiga games, now they didn't actually stock them, the had a load of empty cases, drawers full of pre-printed covers and a pile of black disks. so you could imagine you asked for something and it was made up for you. I can imagine the only waste would be the end of line games where they may have covers left.

With shops falling by the wayside it's an impressively bleak future of social alienation.

Maybe town centers will look more like leisure parks with a cinema, bowling alley and town hall.

On an incremental point here, I would never, ever want to replace tangible purchases of games. For me the instructions, and the disc are as much a part of the game as the game itself.

"Let's sell it to them before they sell it to us"

@lawrence

without wishing to sound as if I am having a go at you personally - thats exactly what I find shallow. my media of choice is music, and when I was a kid - the album art and lyric sheet was everything, now I am older I couldnt give a feck if it comes wrapped in a brown paper bag. its whats contained that matters to me.

Zavvi had the SC4 guide on the shelf at £13. It says £11.99 on the back!

I asked at the till, £13 was the price...

This was last week!

I dont like digital distribution . and I want to trade in my old games including the ones like need for speed undercover that I got form ASDA for £22-00 knowing in all probability it would be a dog ( I was right ) but that I could trade it at Gamestation for 10 - 15 quid .
Also I've found out that all the audio-books and most of the music I have bought from iTunes doesn't belong to me . I didn't realise this 'till my computer went bad and had to get a new one and when iTunes was re-installed I had to log in to unlock all my stuff . and I only got a few goes left now before my purchases are unusable. I could easily loose everything next time windows takes a belly flop and I have to reach for my recovery disks .
Who reads the EULA anyway ? I would never purchase anything from a shop with that kind of a restriction in place .

Aside: I love having CDs in my collection. I shall never surrender! /hubris

The problem is that there is virtually no competition between these shops on the high street. When I go to buy a game I often check in five or six shops, and each one is charging the same price (£44.99 or £39.99). On the rare occasion one shop has the sense to cut even a fiver off that, they get my business - otherwise my money stays in my wallet and none of them get anything. GAME's recent and astonishing sale (Gears 2 and Fable 2 £29.99 each NEW!!) undercut some competitors (including the supposedly desperate Zavvi) by £15; and still others by £5 off their preowned prices! Without more of this sort of competition, people will just endure the day or two wait that comes with buying games online at something other than the bloody RRP.

t8yman, I like to think of the box and instructions as part of a collectors package, and would thus rather have the physical product on a shelf, than a digital download. It is a part of the collectors appeal to me, especially with retro games.

Devil May Cry 4 for £9.75 at Zavvi.

DEAL.

Got to say that it's a huge shame that this chain will die, though. Damn Woolworths.

I remember during the N64 days and one game being on the shelf for £54.99

Think i paid £60 for that 'limited edition' gold majoras mask

Good.

What do high street retailers do apart from sell you something you can get cheaper somewhere else online?

Oh, and rip off developers....

In 9 weeks, Gamestop got revenue of $543.5 million selling pre-owned games that developers worked hard to create, and all Gamestop did was buy off consumers at a rubbish price and sell for $5 less than a new game.

http://kotaku.com/5136721/gamestop-pre+o...

Retailers going bust? Bring it on....

(But i do feel for the guys who actually work in the shops of course, just not the chains themselves)

I'm a growing fan of online buying and digital download as we head into 2009. Retail is just to expensive for me now and it really puts me in a bad mood paying over the odds when I know if I'm patient and wait a couple of days I'll have it cheaper.

Music is a no brainer for download I rarely buy whole albums and need a DRM free single which I can now get.

Download movies are becoming more appealing in 2009 for me with the PS3 rent or own. I like Blu but while I don't mind the few days wait of the internet, I kind of liked going to the shops to buy my movies but Retail Blu prices are a bitter pill which I'm not keen on taking to often. Also, the movie industry seem set to drive Blu into the ground with digital copies only with the crap that won't really sell, and the continuation of the double dipping (seriously somes of the releases have absolutely nothing but the movie - whats the point of all that tech if they won't use it?)

Games, for some reason I still buy on the high street/or the small local guy if he has what I want as I normally impulse buy or launch day buy (I can't trust online for the stuff I'm itching for on launch) but the revelation that my PS3 games can go on 5 machines (and people don't even need to be signed in as me to play 'em) is brilliant, and while not all games have this awesome flexibility on PSN it has really impressed me and if more "retail" games went down the PSN (5 machine friendly) route I may bite - just not at silly prices like the PSP stuff.

If that's coming from me, who didn't really fancy digital download for anything other than music, I reckon retail is on pretty thin ground these days.

Digital distribution is fine and I was quite happy with it UNTIL the moment arrived that publishers were charging MORE for a digital release than I could purchase the boxed version for online/on the high street.

That for me was the time when I decided that they could go F&*k themselves...you are not ripping me off like that.

Now I am just happy to pick up the sale bits from steam and buy loads of 2nd hand software.

not only that but recently I have been picking up loads of bits from gog and also replaying loads of old stuff in my collection that I never really finished and thats a large number of games.

"Digital distribution is fine and I was quite happy with it UNTIL the moment arrived that publishers were charging MORE for a digital release than I could purchase the boxed version for online/on the high street. "

True it does seem as we move further into DD the savings are not passed to the consumer.

Also PSN and Live games are increasing in cost even though user numbers are increasing, what's that about? As for the PSP I sure hope nobody out there is actually paying those prices!

now woolworthes has gone the nearest place to buy games for me is an Hr away on the train. I'l be buying all my games and blu-rays off the internet now when before i would proberly have bought a lot of them from woolies.

@ Retroid

"Let's be careful out there."

" Perhaps its telling that both firms are committing themselves to second hand sales, much to the annoyance of the game publishing industry - this, after all, is a USP which online simply can't replicate."

This seems to be a rather odd comment considering the popularity of Ebay, Play Trade and Amazon Marketplace.

The obvious reason to using a bricks and mortar where second hand is concerned is to trade your stuff for new games, in that case it's not so easy for the online stores to replicate (yet)

"GAME's recent and astonishing sale (Gears 2 and Fable 2 £29.99 each NEW!!)"

If you go through quidco and you buy online you will get 9% cashback in that case. Good deal :-)

My prediction for the future... Sky will rake it in.

More and more homes will be pushed to digital. Digital will be slowly integrated with online services more and more and eventually your Sky box will become a mini pc with a digital delivery service and hard drive.

When that happens, the internet phobia shoppers will accept it as the norm and Gran will be downloading her favourite movies onto her hard drive with the push of a remote button. I can see it becoming another console when this happens as well, with games also being delivered.

Intergration is the future for technology. More for less.

More and more homes will be pushed to digital. Digital will be slowly integrated with online services more and more and eventually your Sky box will become a mini pc with a digital delivery service and hard drive.

SKY can't actually deliver 'on demand' content in its current form and will never be able to via its Satellite network, so it would have to rely heavily on the Broadband side of things (and massive hard drives) to deliver the content to you in the way we will come to expect soon...and at the moment we are nowhere near the speeds needed for that.

Cable/Virgin/Telewest/Blueyonder/Whatever is in a better position to supply true on demand content (and does already), as the content can actually be accessed 'on demand' ( i.e.how the average person expects 'on demand' to mean), you will notice Virgin have thousands of music videos/movies/TV shows etc all available at the touch of button with instant start ups, as the content is actually piped directly to you...the same is simply not possible with Satellite technology, hence what SKY deems 'on demand' is actually content of their choosing that they deliver overnight to be stored on a hard drive in your home...and of course there are serious limits to that, even with ever increasing Hard Drive sizes.

Yeah the gap between retail and online prices has never been so vast. I buy a reasonable amount of games, and I can't remember the last time I walked into a shop to buy one. Got LBP, Resistance 2, Motorstorm 2, Fallout 3, Dead Space, Prince of Persia, Mirror's Edge, Far Cry 2, Bioshock and Midnight Club - total cost to me online - £191.90, an average of less than £20 per game. It is worth noting that these purchases were all made before the January sales, too, and pretty soon after they were released. The same games would have cost me closer to £400 on the high street, perhaps a bit less now that the sales are on. High street retail is simply not a viable option for me.

PECKO PECKO

@t8yman

You dont need to soften that, I am fully aware some people are not bothered about physical media, but then some are, and I know a lot are. I would loathe to see the extinction of physical media with specific relation to videogames.

Thanks for the Quidco tip. It has virtually every online retailer I use already. If I'd known about them a year ago, I would've made a few hundred quid already, I reckon.

Fuck Game.

They're rip off bastards, and the sooner they go under the better!

I tried to buy the L4D guide. Game were "selling" it at £12.99, despite the RRP printed on the back stating £9.99...

I argued the toss with them and they tried to bullshit me about "exchange rates" and the publisher GUESSING the retail price in £'s!!! If they want to try and price gouge their lifeblood customers like that...

Fuck them, I got it on Amazon for £7.50.


Fuck Game.

That's weird, I work for Game and I've NEVER priced up a strategy guide at a higher price than what is stated on the back :/ I'll give the L4D guide a check tomorrow, I have a feeling that maybe Sar's local store is just filled with retards.
But saying Game are gigantic rip off bastards, just because ONE product you were after was a little on the steep side price wise is a tad unfair. I know for a fact that there are plenty of titles in store that are actually equal or actually a little less in price than they are on the big online retail sites.
Off the top of my head, Mass Effect on 360....
Amazon- £24.99
Play-£14.99
Gameplay-£12.99
In my store it's £7.99 new.
See, it's not always facking terrible :)
Edit- Just thought of another one, Eye Of Judgement on PS3 with the camera, £19.99, Brilliant price, you can't deny it!!
The way I go on anyone would think I actually like working there :/

Its beginning to look like the end of game retailers places like game and gamestation simply cant undercut online for new games.
Play and amazon will take over.
Online distrubution is still years away most people still dont have internet access and even if they did speeds are not good enough yet.
Downloading a gig is ok but a 20 gig game?
Gamestation survives on preowned and even play are doing that better now.

@captainrentboy

My local Game is filled with retards. Particularly the female manager, who is a complete cunt (I should know, I worked for her for 4 months about 6 years ago, before I quit because of her cuntishness).

The guy in particular who I was dealing with did seem like a complete spack-head though.

Oh and ME new in our local Game?

£19.99

I kid thee not.

The more recent PC version is £5 cheaper ffs.

And that's another thing that annoys me about our local Game - their reduction of their PC games stock to piss taking proportions. There's literally a half-carousel of the things now, whereas when I worked there it was half a wall's worth (about 20ft all told, floor to ceiling).

Plus that, and the fact that since our local Zavvi just got shut down last week, they've jacked all their prices up to retail prices, since they have no local competition.

Again, fuck Game (my local Game particularly).

PC, it's Steam where possible -- any extra price is worth it to me for the no-CD key, and download as many times I want, and where I wish -- and if it's not on there then online retailer as they are so much cheaper.

Console, online retailer, so much cheaper; no brainer choice.

Online retailers have more easily accessible sales than physical retail too, I picked up Halo 3 at Play.com for £13 in lead up to Xmas whilst it was "full price" in my local retailers.

Sar, your tale sounds suspiciously familiar... you aren't in Cardiff are you?

I really hope B&M stores don't disappear, theres nothing better than when an anticipated title (Street Fighter 4!!) is finally released, and you walk into the shop, pick the case off the shelf, and bring it up to the counter!!

I just don't get the same feeling with digitally distributed games + my PS3 harddrive is almost full what with game installs, download games and demos, so very soon I'm going to run out of space...

Regarding those who still want physical products, is it just me or has the effort in instruction manuels and the overall package just vanished, they use to be an extenstion of the game, very few make an effort to justify buying a physical product, if it wasn't for rip off online store prices, would buy more digital versions where possible.

It seems that unless its an overpriced collector's edition not much is put into the product you're being asked to buy at full price, and considering the prices of games, industry should aim to make that the standard one with printed content that is actually useful to enjoying the game. No toys and lunchboxes please!

Fuck Game.
They're rip off bastards, and the sooner they go under the better!
I tried to buy the L4D guide. Game were "selling" it at £12.99, despite the RRP printed on the back stating £9.99...
I argued the toss with them and they tried to bullshit me about "exchange rates" and the publisher GUESSING the retail price in £'s!!! If they want to try and price gouge their lifeblood customers like that...

That is not just price gouging it is actually illegal. It is illegal to increase the price on a price marked item. If for example a game has an RRP of £44.99, that is only a recommended retail price and the shop can sell it for more or less if they wish. However if the price is marked on the item itself as part of the packaging then it cannot be sold for more than that.

I hate paying for parking it puts me right off going to town. I can walk it occasionally as I'm not that far but if I go to Tesco then I get free parking and can nip down into town as well but I flatly refuse to pay normal parking fees so don't go to the high street very much. I went past clarkes village the outlet shopping centre the other day and thought might as well pop in although it was only about 1 1/2hrs from closing. I assumed it would be free parking but no, so drove out again. People now have a choice for goods be it online or supermarkets so what is the incentive to pay for parking? There are a lot of people like me who don't want to pay £3 to do 3hrs shopping. Its basically a tax for looking around the high street only to find most prices are generally higher than elsewhere. Sod off!

Woolworths? Cheap?! LOL!

Oh, wait. You were serious...

i think that closing stores will probably end up being replaced by alcohol outlets anyways...

I too was one the many knee-jerker "Its not just about the game/movie/music itself its about the packaging, collecting, being able to sell second hand etc"

But now i don't give a feck. Ive come to appreciate entertainment for what it is, not for the externalities.

Also with the advent of online registration, anytime you use a game you are still tied to the internet, so you may as well get it digital anyway (unless you have a poor internet connection).

btw those who get caught out when they have to rebuild their computer should be careful about the terms and condition, digital isnt a golden goose it still has its strange issues.