Heavy Rain Preview

By Tom Bramwell Published 11 December, 2008

A preview without a game.

There's no rain during our trip to Paris to see Heavy Rain, which is bad news for the photographer travelling in our group, who might have done well out of that. Then again, there's no Heavy Rain on our trip to Paris to see Heavy Rain either. Nor, it turns out, was there any sign of it at Leipzig's Games Convention in August, despite its top billing at Sony's conference and director David Cage's press briefings. When we sit down with Cage three months later to ask whether anything we've seen so far - characters, locations, scenarios - is actually in the game you'll be invited to buy in the second half of 2009, he pauses for a second. "No."

Instead we've been invited under the Channel and through the terrifying Parisian traffic to witness a speech and a slideshow. Cage - the diminutive, loquacious and occasionally poetic head of development studio Quantic Dream - wants to tell us about his ambition, his methods, and his philosophy. And it's important to emphasise his role. He wrote the 2,000-page, non-linear script that prescribes not only the game's characters, locations and scenarios, but also its gameplay mechanics, over a period of 15 months, preferring the help of Hollywood script-doctors to established game developers. He directed every one of the 60 scenes that make up the game, casting and commanding more than 70 actors and stuntmen to perfect the look. His co-CEO - the charming Guillaume de Fondaumière - treats him reverentially, greeting the press and helping us to pass the time between interview slots, but only Cage speaks about the game.

We're up against pure ego, then, in a building where everything is open plan except for a single private office (guess who), and yet we're spellbound. We can't tell you how Heavy Rain looks, sounds or plays in any great depth, but we can tell you it's interesting. As with Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy in the US), Cage respectfully declines the "pattern-based" rhythm of modern action-adventures, preferring "a complex story told through contextual actions and realistic visuals", which reaches beyond the emotional palette - as he perceives it - of frustration, anger and anxiety that underscores the majority of contemporary videogames. It's easy to trigger fear and frustration, he argues, "but to make you feel social emotions like empathy is more difficult".

'Heavy Rain' Screenshot 1

Cage says that Heavy Rain's development is "the largest motion capture project ever in games", but we're not shown how it will deal with your movements.

Ironically, contextualising these goals within the framework of what will go on sale next year is almost impossible. Leipzig's taxidermist scenario - where a woman enters a house, discovers stuffed dead people, is surprised by the return of the house owner, and has to escape - gave us an understanding of one or two core concepts, like the 'impress' system, where a character hiding quickly in a cupboard is held in place by an awkward combination of buttons designed to bridge the emotional divide between sofa and peril. We also discovered that the Sixaxis motion sensor would be used to throw, kick and generally "give an impulsion", as Cage puts it, and that your character would move when you held a trigger and follow head movements directed by the player. But Cage refuses to elaborate during our visit, except to say that "there is some kind of language regarding the interface and how we deal with things".

'Heavy Rain' Screenshot 2

Although the art is directed in Paris, a lot of the grunt work is outsourced to Asia, where artists follow a painstakingly assembled "outsourcing bible" to construct each location from a level architect's "blueprints".

We ask about the way in which Cage goes about weaving story and gameplay together, speculating that just as developers who allow gameplay to dictate the scenario are often forced to concede to cut-scenes - something Cage promises only to do as a last resort - he may be forced to concede to repetition if he's to map his game to the story he wants to tell. "I'm not starting with the story and trying to fit gameplay in," he insists, becoming animated, "because that would fail the same way. What I try to do is to think about the story and the gameplay together. At the moment that I have an idea for a scene, I try to think about the potential for gameplay in this scene. Or when I think I think about a nice gameplay mechanic, what's the potential for the story? I wrote many scenes that were deleted because they had a good idea for gameplay but not for story, or a good idea for story but not for gameplay. I need to have good ideas for both in every single scene."

The consequences of these gameplay mechanics - whatever they turn out to be - will bend rubberband arcs within each scene in a manner that amplifies Fahrenheit's most noteworthy achievement. "There are scenes that you will get or you will miss based on what you've done," Cage tells us after his presentation. "There will be part of the scenes that you will see or not see, and there will be specific actions in the scenes, so it's really an open end. There is no way you can see everything in one play-through, because there are many scenes you can only see if you play a certain way."

Famously, Cage has even conquered death in Heavy Rain, having revealed earlier in development that the termination of a central character will not end the game. It's a problem he confesses that he couldn't solve in Fahrenheit, in which one character was essential to the unfolding story and others - though playable - were ultimately periphery. "What do I do?" he says, almost forlornly. "The game stops, what happens? I had to give you a game-over... With Heavy Rain, we took a big risk, and said, okay, this is a huge challenge but let's try to ensure that whatever happens we don't need game-over. There will be different ways of dealing with that."

Given the author, we suspect this means the death of playable characters will be essential to progress. Having elected to make another game of "choice and consequences", Cage is eager to assert that we will have to make difficult, contextual decisions more poignant and complex than the binary moralism of most adventures. Even so, a visual timeline of the game's story, which lurks uninspected by most of assembled press along the back wall of the production floor, is a straight line from left to right, and Cage confirms that while your path through the game will probably deviate from the guy standing behind you at the checkout, there's a coherent "linear backbone to the story".

'Heavy Rain' Screenshot 3

Cage describes punishment and failure within games as an "old idea" and says that he finds modern games with their ramping difficulty off-putting.

Beyond the broad strokes, our visit also contemplates the finest details - the emotional firmament of each scene, dictated not only by characters and your actions toward them, but also their surroundings. Incidentals like a mother kicking a door closed with her heel as she struggles with groceries have been motion-captured, while a prostitute's apartment reveals photographs pinned to the side of the bathroom mirror and a stereo positioned within earshot of the shower because that, we're told, is where its owner prefers to listen to it. Despite the Havok sticker on the posters, it's no surprise to learn that Cage also guides the physics within each location, insisting that your material impact on any given scene must make sense within context. "You cannot when you visit the prostitute, for example, just take a pillow and throw it on her and make a mess," he explains.

At the end of his initial presentation, Cage guides us through a number of the game's locations - its "sets" - taking in the prostitute's home, an antique shop full of dusty typewriters (each of which has individually modelled keys), a train station showered through giant windows by the light of dusk, and a grim crime scene in the night, at which a detective - potentially one of the core cast - stands at the police line, while cops in overcoats pick through the scraps of grass around a tarpaulin-suited body, under the sweeping lights of the traffic crossing a bridge overhead. Heavy rain falls. We ask Cage about his decision to set both his recent games on the US East Coast. "With these two games I tried to create dark thrillers," he says. "You don't choose the place where the story takes place just because it's cool; it has to support your story, and I think that's the case."

'Heavy Rain' Screenshot 4

Trophies will be included, but Cage hasn't decided how. "It's not exactly what we're trying to achieve with Heavy Rain, but I think we're going to make it work," he says.

It's another response that he delivers without much contemplation. That, evidently, came long ago, as did the decision to jettison anything approaching the outlandish conclusion to Fahrenheit. "When the game was released, you guys wrote that the most interesting part was probably the first two-thirds where we were just following normal people in normal life, and we were just with them. Working on Heavy Rain, we just decided [the ending] is not a mistake we should do again. We can tell a real story about real people in real life, and we can make it as interesting as anything else." Cage may be polarisingly self-assured, but it's the first time since we arrived in France that we've decided he's wrong. This is more interesting than anything else.

Heavy Rain is due out exclusively for PlayStation 3 in the second half of 2009.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (110) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Benno #1 3 years ago

    hmmm

  • VicViper #2 3 years ago

    mmmh
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/08 @ 14:49

  • mowgli #3 3 years ago

    This better only cost a fiver and come with free microwavable popcorn.

  • Sanxo #4 3 years ago

    Riiight. So no game, just a presentation of a lashed-together psycho-babble masquerading as a game concept.

    meh

  • the_dudefather #5 3 years ago

    its like Alan Wake in that I can't tell what the actual game is, but looks interesting enough

  • Bealsy #6 3 years ago

    I think the word "game" is applied loosely here

  • DAN.E.B #7 3 years ago

    yeah but but alan wake might be.............you know a game!

  • Widge #8 3 years ago

    Can I get a refund on Monkey Island under the proviso of "not a game"?

  • rob76 #9 3 years ago

    the words "hype" and "flop" instantly spring to mind...

  • Garulon #10 3 years ago

    The more I read about this, the more I understand it's just going to be more Farenheight twirly-thumbstick non-gaming bollocks with a big mayo dollop of Frenchy pretention smothered on top.

  • Garulon #11 3 years ago

    And you can forget about 2009 as well.

  • Knot #12 3 years ago

    In most recent build, Alan Wake's ( especially "running";) animation still sucks bigtime.

    The latest AW trailer didn't impress me at all. Cookie cutter "watch out behind you scares".

  • Ryze #13 3 years ago

    Year of PS3 = 2010, then?

  • mcbi4kh2 #14 3 years ago

    the words "hype" and "flop" instantly spring to mind...
    Reminds me of last Valentines day.

  • Widge #15 3 years ago

    According to IGN AU it was 2008, what a fun comments thread that was too.

  • tiddles #16 3 years ago

    first game to star Ken Livingstone?

  • ademkermad #17 3 years ago

    This is what I imagined Peter Jackson's Halo Chronicles to be like. When I first saw Heavy Rain I immediately thought of how they described Halo Chronicles

  • Widge #18 3 years ago

    Is that still on the go? Always interested to see what he's up to...

  • Eraysor #19 3 years ago

    "A preview without a game."

    Which turned out in this case to be a waste of time.

  • Steroyd #20 3 years ago

    It's another response that he delivers without much contemplation. That, evidently, came long ago, as did the decision to jettison anything approaching the outlandish conclusion to Fahrenheit.

    *pumps fist*

  • Weezer #21 3 years ago

    I'm totally with the guy on 'ramping difficulty'. Why do game designers think I'm going to be magically better at the game nearer the end than I am at the beginning? Don't mind it being a bit stiffer (end boss and all that), but Christ, some of these games go mental...

  • JohnnyWashnGo #22 3 years ago

    From reading this 'preview', this 'game' strikes me as little more than eye candy and marketing.

    Good luck on selling this to the games playing public :)

  • Anasui #23 3 years ago

    heavy rain will indeed fall on this game's reception

    I'm not telling the ingredient but you can imagine it: brown and dense

  • Aggesan #24 3 years ago

    It seems like a really cool experience. Who cares if it's not your ordinary game, is all you want classic fps shooters, racing games and fighting games? Broaden your views peeps.
    Only thing I don't really like is the trophy support. I just doesn't feels like fits Heavy Rain.

  • Golgo #25 3 years ago

    did anyone get far in fahrenheit after it introduced the button mashing qte nonsense? Was quite good up til then.

    It always felt that Gage was more interested in making a movie than a game, though, and when it came to adding playable elements all he could do was add a bit of track'n'field

  • Arwin #26 3 years ago

    "Trophies will be included, but Cage hasn't decided how. "It's not exactly what we're trying to achieve with Heavy Rain, but I think we're going to make it work,"

    He says. As if it were an option.

    It's basically an adventure game with puzzles with a lot of solutions, different main characters depending on how often you die, non-linear (CSI episodes like?) progression and a newish type of quick-time events when action happens. At least, that's what I've understood of the game so far, without actually reading this particular.

  • Widge #27 3 years ago

    I once played a Bladerunner game on the PC years ago which I envisiage this to be like. Story based adventure thing without resorting to the Lucasarts pointy click interface.

    I welcome this kind of thing because you don't get much like it nowadays. But still, oh noes where is the gameplays etc.

  • darc #28 3 years ago

    Very interesting. It's hard to tell whether this will boil down to a new and improved QTE experience, and it's hard to tell whether the "impression" concept of making awkward character actions awkward for the controller will be anything other than annoying. But the sheer volume of artistry being poured into this have me thinking about buying a PS3 again. Hopefully by the time it ships, I'll be able to afford one.

  • Anasui #29 3 years ago

    @Widge

    Correct me if you will, but wasn't Blade Runner a point and click adventure? I reckon it perhaps got a different interface, but felt very much like a Lucasgame back then

  • mikeck #30 3 years ago

    So I'm all alone in being excited for this 'game' then? :p

  • Waldo #31 3 years ago

    did anyone get far in fahrenheit after it introduced the button mashing qte nonsense? Was quite good up til then.

    I did, just to see how bad the game would get.

    By the end, it was very, very bad indeed.

  • mouse Verified Graphic designer, Eurogamer Network #32 3 years ago

    Blade Runner was a point and clicker, yes. Just didn't have the verbs at the bottom.

  • andywilkie35 #33 3 years ago

    "did anyone get far in fahrenheit after it introduced the button mashing qte nonsense? Was quite good up til then."

    Yeah I finished it too - the last third was basically walk a bit, cutscene, quick time event, repeat. Still enjoyed it tho for some reason, and as a result I'm looking forward to seeing how this one turns out too

  • ps3owner #34 3 years ago

    This is a movie then?

  • Widge #35 3 years ago

    Yeah, sorry, I meant away from the old school Lucasarts stuff like you say. The click use, then select item, then apply to thing on screen.

    fahrenheit's on steam isn't it?
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/08 @ 15:40

  • busboy33 #36 3 years ago

    "'You cannot when you visit the prostitute, for example, just take a pillow and throw it on her and make a mess,' he explains."

    . . . ? But I can throw the pillow at, say, the mutant chicken's house, because a cloud of feathers makes sense in that milieu? And I as the player will be able to know when something that wasn't interactive three scenes ago, or two scenes ago, or one scene ago . . . now the pillow is throwable?

    I think the tech looks beautiful, and I support reaching for the stars, so go for it man, but I am now extremely leery about the potential final product. Supposedly going to ship within a year, and he hasn't yet worked out the actual mechanics of playing thing? Sorry -- he's got it completely worked out, but to enhance the artistic ambiance he won't even describe the basic controls.

    I'm having flashbacks about 5-6 years ago . . . This game Fable was going to be released . . . and the artist in charge gave alot of interviews. Alot of interviews that sounded suspiciously like this one. Emotionally stirring, grandiose in vision, a "new era" was dawning . . .

  • bodypopper #37 3 years ago

    Even it's out in 2010 it'll probably still be out before Alan Wake.

  • schachmatt #38 3 years ago

    Another wanna-be filmmaker stuck in the videogames business with more ego than Naomi Campbell on coke.

    Considering Fahrenheit and Nomad Soul he shouldn't have hired script-doctors, but rather scriptwriters. Plus a director, who's learned his trade.

  • kangarootoo #39 3 years ago

    Smoke, meet mirror.

    Everything I read before Fahrenheit, then playing the game itself, and then everything I have read since has created a pretty solid belief in me that David Cage is a frustrated movie writer who thinks he has found his kingdom of the blind in video games. He couldn't get into Hollywood, but then he found the games industry where apparently "nobody has done characters properly before".

    I found the way that people kept claiming Fahrenheit was original and rich (including authors on this site) mildly absurd, in the same way I find it mildly absurd when people claim MGS games have well written dialogue.

    Fahrenheit was fun enough, and I enjoyed it for the most part, but it just wasn't THAT good. Not the way some people rattled on about it at the time. The gameplay was deeply flawed in places. Apologists the world over would say that the gameplay had at times to let the story take over the wheel.... except the story wasn't good enough to provide the apology that was needed. The story in Fahrenheit started off cliched and ended up quite simply ludicrous. The dialogue was tired and unimaginative from the start, so it was perhaps a blessing when the characters started talking less and flying more.

    So, I have been viewing Heavy Rain with deep cynisism from the start and nothing I have seen so far has made me feel any more at ease.

    I mean ffs EG, did they promise you gameplay and then provide only coffee when you got there? In NO way is this a preview, and you might have avoided a bit of comment thread flak by changing the name of the article to interview.

    If QD will show nothing, I can only assume they have nothing to show. I'd love to be wrong 'cos quality adventure games (you know, the kind I was playing 20 years ago while DG was still in short trousers) are in too short supply these days.
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/08 @ 15:56

  • kangarootoo #40 3 years ago

    @Aggesan

    "It seems like a really cool experience."

    Maybe you have read up about this a lot more, but I am baffled as to how anyone can describe the experience as anything other than "unknown" and "graphically quite pretty".

    If you can provide me with even a single sentence that describes the experience in more tangible terms I will be genuinely thankful.

  • T4RG4 #41 3 years ago

    Oh dear. Those were my thoughts after reading that.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #42 3 years ago

    I applaud the attention to detail, the characterisation and the mise-en-scene he's trying to create. But at the end of the day there has to be something fun to play.

    I'm hoping for the best from this, but fear it may well just end up this generation's Dragon's Lair.

  • drumbaby #43 3 years ago

    Not enough musclebound marines in this.

  • dominalien #44 3 years ago

    I must say, I was hoping for a bit more of the "preview" part and less of the "lots of words, not much content" part.

  • glaeken #45 3 years ago

    Hmmmm is pretty much all I can come up with on this. All I have seen so far is what looked like a game entirely based on QTE''s which looked like a terrible idea to me. Still with how vague they are being who knows what they will actually deliver. The only vibe I am getting so far from Cage is very much in the area of Rise of the Robots.

  • PlugMonkey #46 3 years ago


    It's another response that he delivers without much contemplation. That, evidently, came long ago, as did the decision to jettison anything approaching the outlandish conclusion to Fahrenheit.

    *pumps fist*

    Indeed! And then EG goes on to say that they think he's wrong about this, but don't really say why. Why is he wrong to avoid the completely bobbins ending to Fahrenheit?

  • kangarootoo #47 3 years ago

    I think EG thought the end of Fahrenheit was good...

    I know.

  • paulf #48 3 years ago

    interesting one this, I like that they are trying to do something different, but good concepts do not necessarily make a good game, I look forward to seeing how it turns out though

  • seasidebaz #49 3 years ago

    I AM SOLD!!!!

    Len Goodman is in it, hopefully you get to shoot him in the face!

  • Farzlepot #50 3 years ago

    Five minutes of my life were spent on reading this article and attempting to decipher what the heck it was about.

    They were wasted minutes.

  • kangarootoo #51 3 years ago

    "whats with all the confussion? have none of you ever played farienhiet or nomad soul, netiher those games were made up of just QTE just look shenmue wasnt. Or maybe you realise that and its just 360 owners spreading propaganda early on"

    What?!?

    I honestly cannot tell from that whether you think Fahrenheit and Nomand Soul were good or bad.

    Err, and thanks for the outta-left-field Alan Wake comment. Very refreshing.

  • Garulon #52 3 years ago

    "have none of you ever played farienhiet or nomad soul, netiher those games were made up of just QTE "

    Nomad Sould was excellent, but Farenheight, after an incredibly strong start with all the knife hiding, was just twirly thumbstick bobbins. I gave up shortly after some crappy dream sequence thingy.

  • Ergates_Antius #53 3 years ago

    Whilst I genuinely hope this succeeds and actually turns into a good game, the 2 words that spring to mind most readily whenever I read about it are "Hubris" and "Vapourware".

    It's never a good sign when developers start having press conferences so long before the final product is nearing completion. Or even nearing the beginning. Months of effort (probably) millions of Euros spent and what do they have to show for it?

  • Krelle #54 3 years ago

    Thought Farenheit was great, so ill just hope for this to turn out good aswell. Game or not.

  • PrivateJoker #55 3 years ago

    So many idiots in one place. Wait until it's released you tossers, then perhaps you can pull your heads from your asses and make some kind of constructrive argument for or against it.

  • kangarootoo #56 3 years ago

    Most of the discussion is about Fahrenheit. Is that still allowed, so long as we stick to "constructrive" critisism?

  • lambtron #57 3 years ago

    Agree with Kangaratoo - good post.
    Also agree with Garulon - I really enjoyed Nomad Soul, hated Fahrenheit.

    I think Kanga pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comment about Cage being a frustrated film-maker.

  • andromeda #58 3 years ago

    this is the sort of thing that u expect to be a launch title. Woo look that pretty gwafix type thing. and then bargain bin within a week

    EDIT typo
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/08 @ 17:25

  • JP #59 3 years ago

    Sounds like snake oil of the highest order.

  • kangarootoo #60 3 years ago

    I just trollied off to look up the origin of the term snake oil, as I know what it means but not where it comes from.

    [link url=http://en.wiki pedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
    ]http://en.wiki pedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
    [/link]

    A very appropriate comparison actually, as it all seems to hinge not on what something actually IS... but what it is claimed it can do :)

  • darc #61 3 years ago

    "Indeed! And then EG goes on to say that they think he's wrong about this, but don't really say why. Why is he wrong to avoid the completely bobbins ending to Fahrenheit?"

    I think you missed something there. EG was being a little clever, saying a realistic/ "ordinary" story arc wouldn't be as interesting as the alternative, but rather more interesting.

    The Dragon's Lair reference is apt, in the worst-case scenario. Even then, if it's so much as tolerable, it might be worth playing through just to watch all the pretty, cutting-edge graphics, see an interactive story play out, etc. Could go either way.

  • Chufty #62 3 years ago

    Ah. Predictably excessive hatred on the comments, without anyone really knowing what the product is. If this is the typical attitude of gamers, then fresh and interesting ways to use gaming technology are going to struggle to sell. Which is a real shame.

    Hopefully there are enough open-minded people from the general public interested in this game to encourage more of it.

  • HermitArcader #63 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • AOFanboi #64 3 years ago

    It's Art. You muindanes would not Understand it.

  • Wyrm #65 3 years ago

    The scene in the Diner from Fahrenheit is one of the best sequences in any game ever. More of that please.

  • noller #66 3 years ago

    Is that still allowed, so long as we stick to "constructrive" critisism?

    Of course it's still allowed.

    But reducing someone to the term 'frustrated movie writer', just because he takes the liberty to investigate other channels for his creative vision than just the one you want to pigeonhole him in, is hardly 'constructive criticism' in my book. Even if he were (a frustrated movie writer), how exactly would that allow you to make a statement on the actual quality of the final product (or the lack thereof) -- especially since we don't know much about it?

    It seems hardcore gamers are quite a conservative bunch...

  • lockload #67 3 years ago

    wow great preview of nothing..

  • Skurmedel #68 3 years ago

    Outsourced game development... No real game content? Will this be postponed? Yes. Super ego designer? Yes. Will it be good? Doubt it.

    I seldom judge games based on preview content, but this gives me a feeling of "Metal Gear Solid interactive movie" mixed with massive flop since there doesn't seem to be any game.
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/08 @ 19:48

  • Ergates_Antius #69 3 years ago

    @Chufty/PrivateJoker

    If we'd all suddenly picked on a game at random then you'd have a point.

    However, the developer in question has deliberately gathered together a whole bunch of journalists (presumably from all over Europe), shipped them to Paris then shown them, well, nothing really. This makes them, pretty much, fair game. If you're going to paint yourself bright purple and then dance naked on the platform at Kings Cross station during rush-hour, you can't complain if a few people look at you funny.

  • clean515 #70 3 years ago

    I loved fahrenheit and this looks like it will be more of the same with a better story, cant wait.

  • Kenshin001 #71 3 years ago

    I hope it doesn't flop simply from the point of view of he is trying to bring something different and mature to the gaming world. Let's face it games are childish and woefully inferior to film or literature and this type of narrative is way overdue. With any luck the game will add breadth and depth to the PS3 library.

  • Goodfella #72 3 years ago

    Ah the Internet, a fountain of knowledge at your fingertips but also, and sadly a medium for millions of people with an opinion.

    I'm weary of forums and comments sections. They're just battlegrounds for people to upstage each other with humourous comments and personal digs.

    Heavy Rain? I would put money on myself loving the game but I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise.

  • Anasui #73 3 years ago

    judging by the comments one would expect game's coming out for the Wii

  • interspaced #74 3 years ago

    Finally some sort of return to old school point and click like interactivity.

  • SixFootHalfling #75 3 years ago

    "Ah the Internet, a fountain of knowledge at your fingertips but also, and sadly a medium for millions of people with an opinion.

    I'm weary of forums and comments sections. They're just battlegrounds for people to upstage each other with humourous comments and personal digs. "

    Fuck off and stop reading them then
    See problem solved

    Anyway

    If they manage to get the feel of the first part of Fahrenheit then I think the game could be good, especially for a lazy sundays game, but if it turns into a story as strange, and as many bad game design decisions (stealth part anyone? QTE?) then it'll be a flop, and unfortunantly a deserved one.

  • UncleLou #76 3 years ago

    Looks great, but then I loved Fahrenheit. Weak last third, but otherwise one of the freshest and most atmosphereic games of the last few years.

    Now stop it with the silly exclusivity and make a PC version of Heavy Rain, so I can actually buy it.

  • Kluff #77 3 years ago

    Guys, you did read that Cage wants to avoid cutscenes?
    Since he says that you can't accuse him of being a frustrated movie director!

    And we already got to see quite a lot of the game, I thought the GC Gameplay Trailer looked very promising and then there was <a href"http: //www.viddler.com/explore/Lirion/videos/2/">this </a> half hour presentation in french.
    Personally, I haven't played Fahrenheit, but heard all kinds of opinions on it.

    The QTEs make me a bit unsure, they could still take Heavy Rain down. But since Quantic Dream has a huge budget this time around and because David Cage seemed to have learned a lesson or two it might be an amazing game in the end. We'll see.

  • Grayvern #78 3 years ago

    If the game gets anywhere near the majestic feeling of riding on the back of a Collosi in Shadow of the Collosus ill eat my wii. But seriously as everyone has said all the mock up offered was ahuge qte, whats the point in being in an interactive if the player has so little interaction. If qte's are included ,even if it's just for action segments, it's still a cop out.

  • busboy33 #79 3 years ago

    @ farticus:
    Heck yes Fable was a good game -- but I consider myself lucky since I didn't play it until last year. All I remember of the launch were the howls of outrage at the non-growing trees, "Peter lied!", and so forth. For every one person who mentioned the game itself was pretty good, 25 people would declare it pure, unrefined vomit, based solely on the pre-launch belief in Fable -- Nothing Will Ever Be The Same: The Game (tm), and all of that was based pretty overwhelmingly on the prophetic musings of Mr. M.

    By the time I played it, the outrage had faded, so I got to enjoy what turned out to be a suprisingly fun game (I say suprisingly because it's not my usual genre of choice, and after the first few hours I was convinced it would suuuuuuuuuuuck, but it was only $10 and I was bored so might as well keep playing . . . then before I know it I'm enjoying the game immensely) without the hate storm raging around me.
    Like I said before, I'd love if he pulls this off, but cryptic hints at something indicerpherable and no actual demonstration send up HUGE warning flags for me. Someone mentioned the term "snake oil" in an earlier post. The first rule of being a flim-flam man: you've GOT to demonstrate something to make the rubes think there's something behind your patter. Sure, the "demonstration" may be entirely faked, a convienent plant in the audience that "volunteers" to come on stage and try you elixir, tries it then loudly declares "Zowee!! that cured my Herpes!! you're a miracle worker, Professor Potiono! I'll buy you're whole stock -- it's too good to let it get away!!" As Peter M admits with a chuckle now, Fable certainly taught him not to talk about something revolutionary until you're 100% positive you can pull it off. Even moreso with HeavyR, if I read this properly the HR director is the one that called the press to gather round, I've got something to tell you, you won't believe what's happening behind this curtain to my secret lair, werein I am prestidigating a chemical concoction so extra-revolutionary, so astounding . . . it may well change the way you think about life and death itself. Now shoo, and send in the next marks. Peter M's greatest sin was being unable to restrain himself whenever somebody got a mike in front of him (something it looks like MS and Lionhead security are slowly curbing, no doubt with a 5,000 volt remote activated dog collar under his now-constant turtlenecks) -- calling the press is an extremely deliberate move, that unfortunately has only a few possible rationales from my vantagepoint, and the majority of those are related to setting up a hustle.

  • HardCoreGamer999 #80 3 years ago

    "Heavy Rain" answers on why i bought the PS3
    Edited by 1 at 12/12/08 @ 08:36

  • HandOfBeadle #81 3 years ago

    Does anyone else find the quantity of "why isn't it a game" comments (as in, more than one) absolutely bloody exasperating? This is something that at the very least should completely shake up the way game narratives and plotlines are constructed and executed and yet many of the comments seem to be "where's the mofoing crosshairs? Where are the power-ups?"

    Innovation can fuck right off.

  • OllyJ #82 3 years ago

    The story in Farenheit was utter toss, so I wouldn't get my hopes up!

    Mayans and AI!!! feck off!!

  • penhalion #83 3 years ago

    Reading the comments here. It suddenly occurs to me that you guys really didn't realise the concept of heavy rain was utter bollocks after seeing the original presentations in the house.

    Where as a lot of gamers immediately realised that the level of detail being claimed meant that the game would in no way be user controllable. It had to be a quicktime fest with pre-created scenes and canned (all be it in engine) interactions. Why? Well simply because none of the current gen consoles are powerful enough to constantly pump out the graphics and features being claimed and also handle processing of AI and user input.

    The days of companies spouting bollocks claims and being believed are slowly passing. The general populace are far too tech savy these days to take such crud at face value.

    Doesn't help that these are the guys who also did Farenheit (good but, hardly an interactive marvel).

  • kangarootoo #84 3 years ago

    @noller

    "But reducing someone to the term 'frustrated movie writer', just because he takes the liberty to investigate other channels for his creative vision than just the one you want to pigeonhole him in, is hardly 'constructive criticism' in my book"

    Well if I had done that, you would be quite right. But I did not.

    I reduce him to frustrated movie writer for several other reasons.

    1. The gameplay mechanics of Fahrenheit were clearly underdeveloped.
    2. The characters were hollow stereotypes.
    3. The story development was amateur.
    4. The binding together of the story and gameplay was inventive at times, but heavy handed or absent at others.

    And most crucially
    5. I really got the sense that DG did not consider the player to be the most important part of the whole deal.


    All this "takes the liberty to investigate other channels" stuff just sounds to me like another flavour of "at least he tried". Which is exactly the apologist sentiment I referred to in an earlier post.


    "It seems hardcore gamers are quite a conservative bunch... "

    Well firstly, you seem to assume that I'm not into the kind of game that DG is trying to produce. You would be 100% wrong in that assumption. And this raises another part of the issue.

    There is this suggestion that DG is doing something new, and that anyone who doesn't like his work must not like this new direction. I suggest he is in fact NOT doing anything particular new, and what I personally have issue with is the quality of his work when viewed alongside the better examples (which I think are great).

    When I played Fahrenheit, there was very little about it that struck me as not itself being conservative. Name me one part of Fahrenheit that you thought was original and I bet I can find you a prior example in video game history.
    Edited by 1 at 12/12/08 @ 09:46

  • Widge #85 3 years ago

    The reason why the thread has dissolved into meh is because its a high profile system exclusive thread. Wait until an Alan Wake one starts, its going to be full of the same thing. Its like when a Gears 2 one was present, moans about scripts, teh homosecks, brown. Then Killzone 2, will be rubbish because first one was, pre-rendered trailer, grey. We're all old moany mehs!

  • PlugMonkey #86 3 years ago

    3. The story development was amateur.

    That doesn't even begin to describe it. According to my save profile, when Fahrenheit dropped its 'plot twist' into the mix, I was 95% of the way through the game. The equivalent of a new plot element being introduced five minutes from the end of a film. You just can't do that and expect your audience to feel anything other than completely cheated.

    Ah. Predictably excessive hatred on the comments, without anyone really knowing what the product is. If this is the typical attitude of gamers, then fresh and interesting ways to use gaming technology are going to struggle to sell. Which is a real shame.

    Now, if my scepticism stemmed purely from the fact that Cage is trying to do something fresh and interesting, then this would be a valid point. But the truth of the matter is that exactly the same rhetoric surrounded Fahrenheit - which I fell for it hook, line and sinker - and then the game frankly failed to deliver on any of it. Can you really expect me to approach this with the same enthusiasm? Espeically when there doesn't actually seem to be anything there yet.

  • Tenaflyviper #87 3 years ago

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    Do you fight the internet again in a QTE stylee?

  • RexRunti #88 3 years ago

    I know the games not out yet, but I'd though i'd break down why everyones being so sceptical to those who think everyone's bashing for no reason.

    1. His rhetoric reminds a lot of us oldies of the "interactive movie" speak of the pre-PlaySation era which produced nothing but truely awful games.
    2. A lot of these 'innovations' have good reasons behind not being implemented in other games. For example, the whole when hiding in a cupboard you have to hold the controller in an uncomfortable way so relate more with the character thing. All this does is give you an uncomfortable control scheme. If people got a punched in the face everytime they lost at Virtua Fighter it wouldn't encourage them to get better or relate more but stop them playing.
    3. Lack of interactivity. It seems painfully clear that you can only act with things that they want you to interact with. Why can't you throw a pillow in the situation he describes? What are the chances of having to move a pillow in one of the other 'scenes' to find a gun hidden underneath or because you need to stuff it down the toilet to flood the room or whatever. This makes the game look like a series of binary descisions or one of those adventure books (if you want to punch the elf turn to page 23 if you want to run away turn to page 18).
    4. Arrogance. There are plenty of games out there with good stories, some linear like JRPGs and most adventure games, and others more interactive like Western RPGs and some other adventure games, most have good characterisation as well. And all of them started life as a game, not a tech demo.
    5. The lack of any real information. He hasn't explained what the game actually is leaving us to read between the lines and assume either point and click adventure minus the point and click or interactive movie with a bit more character movement (or just possibly Myst).

    In short the best we can hope for from this game is a modern BladeRunner (which was bloody fantastic, so no bad thing but not that orginal) or at worst a modern Dragons Lair (which sucked). I personally suspect it will be somewhere inbetween with the success of the game ultimately resting on the quality of it's 60 puzzles, sorry 'scenes' and how well the story connects them together.

  • Widge #89 3 years ago

    "Do you fight the internet again in a QTE stylee?"

    answer contained in article which you read I'm sure

  • Kluff #90 3 years ago

    3. Lack of interactivity. It seems painfully clear that you can only act with things that they want you to interact with. Why can't you throw a pillow in the situation he describes? What are the chances of having to move a pillow in one of the other 'scenes' to find a gun hidden underneath or because you need to stuff it down the toilet to flood the room or whatever. This makes the game look like a series of binary descisions or one of those adventure books (if you want to punch the elf turn to page 23 if you want to run away turn to page 18).

    Cage said that in that situation it doesn't make sense for the character to throw the pillow around. Don't forget, you're not controlling yourself in the game, but you're controlling a character. So you're only allowed to do things that fit the personality.
    It's like in any other adventure. I mean in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis there was certainly no lack of interactivity. The three paths feature makes it also a bit more comparable to Heavy Rain. And while you could solve situations in many different ways you couldn't let Indy wear women's clothes to disguise himself and go around unnoticed, for example.

    5. The lack of any real information. He hasn't explained what the game actually is leaving us to read between the lines and assume either point and click adventure minus the point and click or interactive movie with a bit more character movement (or just possibly Myst).

    The game will be released in 2010. Don't you think it's a bit early for this?

  • kangarootoo #91 3 years ago

    "Cage said that in that situation it doesn't make sense for the character to throw the pillow around. Don't forget, you're not controlling yourself in the game, but you're controlling a character. So you're only allowed to do things that fit the personality."

    My life. That is about the wooliest, waffliest, most pretentious excuse I think I've ever heard for lack of freedom and choice.

    The correct answer is of course "its a piece of computer software, and as such it can't accomodate a truly open choice structure", but instead he comes out with feeble nonsense about it not being fitting to the personality of the character in the video game, as if to suggest that his game COULD give you endless choice and freedom but that it would be in poor taste to do so. Nothing but nothing but ridiculous.


    "It's like in any other adventure. I mean in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis there was certainly no lack of interactivity. The three paths feature makes it also a bit more comparable to Heavy Rain."

    Exactly. Not that different really, once we wipe off all of the pretentious nonsense such as that above, to any of the classic video game adventures of the last 20 years (only not as good). Exactly what I have been saying since the start.

  • Widge #92 3 years ago

    only not as good? Or am I misreading you there, putting a label on an unreleased title.

  • kangarootoo #93 3 years ago

    Ok, that was slightly cheap, but as has been mention before expectation of Heavy Rain is being based on previous titles such as Fahrenheit.

    Of course I cannot KNOW what Heavy Rain will be like, but given how much control DG has over the production and design, and given how much control he had over the production and design of Fahrenheit, and given how much hype and how little proper information there is about Heavy Rain, and given how much hype and how little proper information there was about Fahrenheit before its release, and given how Fahrenheit ended up being disappointing in several ways..... I think I am allowed to make a leap of faith or two.

    I would LOVE to be wrong, as I would love HR to be good so I could enjoy playing. I said exactly the same thing before Fahrenheit came out, as my spidey sense was tingling then too. It was right last time though, and DG isn't giving me anything else to go on.

  • Knot #94 3 years ago

    New game title : "Condemned : by EG comments". lol

    Anyway, QD's still working hard on a final control setup ; trying NOT to get into your dreaded QTE type of gameplay. Read about it here ;

    - [link url=http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=1&c Id=3171575&p
    ]http://ww w.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager....[/link]

    Ppl screaming 100% interactivity in any way they please = approaching GTA sandbox concept. Don't forget this is an adventure game, submerging you into a story. If you look at the public presentation you can clearly see that you can basically interact with
    all that matters in context of the scene ; you can even have the character sit down on the sofa ; scrub to 10:55 mins :

    - [link url=http://www.gamekyo.com/videoen13496 _heavy-rain-public-presentation-video.html
    ]http://ww w.gamekyo.com/videoen13496_heav...[/link]

    I think there's not really "arrogance" from QD's / DC's side. The man's just very animated and in creative-spirit about his game.
    A lot of people just want to see it fail, merely because it's a PS3 game. Just wait 'n see and maybe you'll be happily surprised.

    * about the amount of game info : developer/publisher Ubisoft is even more secretive & vague about Splinter Cell Conviction ;
    based on their 'once' proud SC franchise.
    Edited by 1 at 12/12/08 @ 15:17

  • Widge #95 3 years ago

    Fair enough, I guess we'll see on delivery with this one.

  • AceMaCool #96 3 years ago

    "You cannot when you visit the prostitute, for example, just take a pillow and throw it on her and make a mess," he explains.

    But can you do a poo on her?

  • kangarootoo #97 3 years ago

    @Knot

    Good links.

    Says in the first preview link, "All characters have to move and behave right, all elements in the environment that the player may want to interact with must be interactive". Like the famed pillow?

    "This is because the videogame, as a medium, has been too immature to tell complex and subtle stories"
    /drums desk with fingers


    "you can even have the character sit down on the sofa"

    No way!!! (sarcasm ends).

    I can't think of the last adventure game I played that didn't let me sit down in any chair in the environment. Oblivion does it, Fallout 3 does it. Ah, Fable 2 doesn't. I guess Fable 2 must be shit then ;)


    "A lot of people just want to see it fail, merely because it's a PS3 game"

    That certainly doesn't apply to me. I don't want it to "fail" at all, and the console platform has nothing to do with anything.

  • kangarootoo #98 3 years ago

    "Anyway, QD's still working hard on a final control setup ; trying NOT to get into your dreaded QTE type of gameplay"

    That isn't what I read.

    "There are some very interesting aspects to PAR: There's no limit to the types of actions, animations, and cameras you can offer, which makes every single action and scene unique. These scenes are very spectacular, fully contextual, and easy to understand and play. They're also more and more common, as they've been used in games like Shenmue, Tomb Raider, and God of War."

    Sounds like he is dead keen on them to me, but just thinks there are some issues to sort in the presentation of the QTE symbols.

    Hence,
    "I think we found an interesting new solution by integrating symbols in 3D in the set and in animating them with the character or object they relate to."

  • Knot #99 3 years ago

    @ kangarootoo :

    "I think we found an interesting new solution by integrating symbols in 3D in the set and in animating them with the character or object they relate to." :

    From your wording, I think you are assuming a set of preset animations or situational set-ups & conclusions will be the result.
    From Cage's wording & the public presentation, I see realtime interaction & use of objects, as your character comes accross them.

    Let's take the 'pillow' example into the "Taxidermist" scene. The battle situation : You manouvre your character to avoid this guy from slashing her ; she comes accross both a hammer and such a pillow - then triangle icon lights up for using the hammer ; which (instinctively) is going to be a means of defense : but not the same applies to the pillow. Perhaps because, instinctively, she might not deem the pillow as an effective means of defense ? A small piece of paper on that table wouldn't make much sense as a means of defense either ; hence, the interaction icon would only lit up for the hammer on the table.

    The most recent use of QTE in my memory is the end fight between Old Snake & Oceliquid in MGS4's ending ; now, that was a prime example of QTE use which bugs me indeed ; a preset animation kicking in, the moment you hit that button combo or mash, completely resetting your character's stance and relative position & direction.

    So, from what I read from HR's info ; is that once a sensible & usable object comes within reach or within sensible context ; you will see an icon which you can make your character use, calculating your character's interaction and subsequent use of the item on the fly/ in real time, based upon the current parameters of the situation in 3D ; rather than seeing a preset animation kicking in or a canned animation which jars with your character's relative position & direction iin worldspace as well.

    Edited by 2 at 12/12/08 @ 16:40

  • kangarootoo #100 3 years ago

    Well we seem to be talking about the specific implementation of QTEs, rather than an apparent effort to move away from them.

    I've said in other threads that I don't much mind QTEs. They are just a button reaction based mechanic like any other, and I think that the reason many people dislike them is that in most cases they are implemented badly.

    One of the key areas that often causes QTEs to go bad is "what happens if I cock it up". Too many games either make you dead, or they make you fail a big sequence resulting in a quick trip to repetition town.

    Now Fahrenheit used a combination of results, and sometimes did a very good job of it. There was some situations where instant death was dealed out, and there were others where you got a few "lives" (though tbh that was usually just helping you avoid the same thing), but then there were other occasions where it didn't really matter short of you missing out on a reward. I rather liked that last approach; more carrot and less stick.

    Another area of frequent un-fun is that the player isn't given enough warning when a QTE moments comes around. But Fahrenheit was very rarely guilty of this so I've no major worries there.


    So my query is not so much over how they implement the QTEs (their "in-scene" idea sounds quite tidy as it happens), but what happens when I inevitably bugger things up. If I get a knife in the guts and yet another visit to the "load your saved game" screen then I shall be feeling all sulky, but IF the sequence ends up heading in different direction (you don't get stabbed but you do get pushed back off the sofa and onto the floor, for example) then I shall remain interested and involved.

    Maybe their new secret way of dealing with death will be a solution to this concern, but I remain skeptical on that one. What I don't really want to see is some heavenly world, other dimension, find your way back to life type section... as after numerous repeat visits I will probably be thinking that a quick reload of a saved game might be quicker.

  • Kluff #101 3 years ago

    The correct answer is of course "its a piece of computer software, and as such it can't accomodate a truly open choice structure",

    The answer to which question?

    but instead he comes out with feeble nonsense about it not being fitting to the personality of the character in the video game, as if to suggest that his game COULD give you endless choice and freedom but that it would be in poor taste to do so. Nothing but nothing but ridiculous.

    You can talk to me directly, jerk. You're trying hard to be ignorant, right?
    I suggested nothing, you were reading something into my words that I didn't say. I guess you want me to be your enemy type, an apologetic fanboy of David Cage who falls for the hype. Like I said, I didn't play Fahrenheit, so I couldn't even be one if I wanted to.
    Anyway, back to my point: You can't tell a story and give the player unlimited choice. Those two things are contradictionary. If the player can do what he wants then he will not only play against the personality of his character but will also be able to work outside the story, break it or ignore it at all. Blade Runner tried to give you unlimited choice and a story and it failed (was still a solid game, though). If you disagree then you have no idea how game design works. Don't feel bad, though. The guys at Westwood didn't either.
    Heavy Rain wants to tell a story, not give you an open world with unlimited choices. It's not even Cages intention.
    If this isn't your cup of tea then you don't have to play it.

    Sure, unlimited choice in a game isn't possible out of many technical and financial reasons. And because it might never get finished. But there is a sound reason why Heavy Rain doesn't even try to give you those.

  • kangarootoo #102 3 years ago

    @Kluff

    You need to calm down mate. I didn't attack you directly. You quoted DG, and I took issue with what he had said. If that wasn't clear then I guess that is my bad.

    "The answer to which question?"

    Its a turn of phrase. The question is the question any gamer who wants to throw the pillow would be asking, the question to which DG's response is "it doesn't make sense for the character to throw the pillow around".


    "You can't tell a story and give the player unlimited choice"

    I agree completely. Not sure why you would think otherwise.


    "If the player can do what he wants then he will not only play against the personality of his character but will also be able to work outside the story, break it or ignore it at all"

    I would go one step further and simply say that a player will NEVER be able to do anything they want within the confines of a game. The possible effects of being able to do so don't really come into it.


    "Blade Runner tried to give you unlimited choice"

    I must have a played a different Bladerunner game to you. It was a great title, but it didn't give me anything like unlimited choice. I'm not sure how the word "try" is even part of the deal. Either a game does give unlimited choice (as I said before, I can't) or it doesn't.


    "If you disagree then you have no idea how game design works"

    Haha, great statement. The old "if you disagree with me then MADE UP FACT" approach. I'm far from expert, but I seem to get by knowing about game design, it pays my mortgage for a start.


    "The guys at Westwood didn't either."

    The guys that made Bladerunner knew a damn sight more about good game design than David Cage does. If you had actually played Fahrenheit you might have something to compare Bladerunner to, and maybe you would be a little more questioning of DG's hyperbole. Bladerunner is one of this industry's defining moments... errr, and if you disagree the moon will fall on your house (hey, I could get used to this).


    As it happens, Heavy Rain is completely my cup of tea insofar as the genre in which it sits. I just remain skeptical that it will live up to the hype that keeps getting pumped into the atmosphere.
    Edited by 2 at 12/12/08 @ 17:50

  • Knot #103 3 years ago

    @ Kangarootoo :

    Still, from your description, it seems you think of QTE's as timed sequences ; a "Once X happens, press 'triangle, square, circle' quick enough to avoid death or any other outcome.

    What I think the difference is in HR : the QTE doesn't come around ; but instead : you guided your character towards any direction, and you happen to come in range of an object and the icon appears, so you can grab / interact with that object.

    In other words ; A QTE doesn't happen to you in a timed manner along the story branch line, instead.... you make it happen that your character goes to the interactive item and interact with it ; it's just that there will be an icon onscreen, indicating the respective button to press. Basically not much different from any adventure game.

    I think that many people have mistaken those onscreen icons for QTE's, while they are actually not timed QTE's ; instead, interactive icon prompts if you steered your character in realtime towards that item/object. Let's say this happens ; she grabs the hammer, but she trips while evading the taxidermist and the hammer falls to the floor. .... later on, she might be able to pick it up again, so then you press triangle again to pick it up as soon as the hammer is within reach once more.

    So, in HR you make the interaction happen, the interaction doesn't happen to you in a timed/scripted manner such as 'real' QTE's do. But it's not a sandbox game either, where you can do about anything, whatever pops up into mind at any given time.

    Cage mentioned that the goal is to have everything (which is interactive) in the game in modeled 3D ; not a 2D plane detail ; in order, to have your character relate & interact with it, in a visually realistic manner.

    Edited by 2 at 12/12/08 @ 18:04

  • Kluff #104 3 years ago

    You shouldn't wonder that my response was harsh since you were rude in the first place, at least it seemed like that to me.

    Well, when I say that Blade Runner tried to give you unlimited choice then I meant more that the designers tried to include it. The hype that surrounded, the hyperbole that was made was probably quite similar to the one around Fahrenheit.
    Like I said, Blade Runner is a solid game, but I think the designers were more wishfully thinking than actually considering if their plans could work. Somehow they still got it together, though it wasn't nearly as great as promised.

    This is the opening paragraph of the Gamespot review, for example:
    Westwood Studios has been extremely vocal about how its adaptation of Ridley Scott's Blade Runner would revolutionize the adventure genre. Touting it as "the first real-time adventure game" and promising a "constantly changing plot," the designers have made numerous claims about how the game's characters and story would be unpredictable, creating an entirely new experience. Unfortunately, almost none of the claims are true. Blade Runner is an interesting mood piece, built upon some very detailed graphic work and an interesting premise - but somewhere along the production line, someone forgot to include a game.

    Sounds familiar?
    I 'm not sure anymore if the designers also promised unlimited choice or something similar, maybe I confused that, but still, hyperbole galore.
    My statement "If you disagree then you have no idea how game design works" may be a cliche, but you wouldn't grasp the basic concepts of a story and free choice if you would see it otherwise. Not that they are hard to grasp.

    Anyway, I see we agree on much more than it seemed like in the first place. But then, you were the one who accused me of talking nonsense. So there.
    Edited by 3 at 12/12/08 @ 18:41

  • Ergates_Antius #105 3 years ago

    @Kluff: "The game will be released in 2010. Don't you think it's a bit early for this? "
    Yes. Except Don't you also think it's a bit early to be calling a press conference. In Paris. Not sending out a press release. Not writing a blog. Not posting on a games website. But spending several hundreds/thousands of pounds (Euros) on shipping god-knows how many journalists half-way across the continent to a conference, sticking them all in a room and telling them "Well, we've not actually got anything to show you yet, but when we do actually make something , it's going to be fab. Here are some of the ideas we've had which may or may-not eventually make it into the game, if we ever finish it."

    It's very very easy to create a list of things which you want to put into a game. It's another matter entirely to actually carry it out. All Cage has done so far is reveal some of the former and NONE of the latter. It's impossible to over-emphasise this point - He called a press conference when he had NOTHING to show.

    If I was on the board of the company funding this project, I'd have started looking for the phone-numbers of reputable hitmen at this point.

    (For the record - I quite liked Farenheit)

  • Kluff #106 3 years ago

    @Kluff: "The game will be released in 2010. Don't you think it's a bit early for this? "
    Yes. Except Don't you also think it's a bit early to be calling a press conference. In Paris. Not sending out a press release. Not writing a blog. Not posting on a games website. But spending several hundreds/thousands of pounds (Euros) on shipping god-knows how many journalists half-way across the continent to a conference, sticking them all in a room and telling them "Well, we've not actually got anything to show you yet, but when we do actually make something , it's going to be fab. Here are some of the ideas we've had which may or may-not eventually make it into the game, if we ever finish it."


    Probably. But then, I guess we should stay excited about it without them showing too much. There's still enough time ahead where we need to be hyped so....well, I don't know too much about marketing, but it's just my general impression that they want to keep the hype around Heavy Rain alive. No one should forget that it exists and that it should come out sooner or later.
    Don't show too much too early!

  • Creasy #107 3 years ago

    Easily the mist anticipated "game" ever in gaming history.
    Finally something really great.
    Will change the whole media forever.
    Games like Gears2, RE5 and so on are all great games. But nothing really special or completely great.
    Heavy Rain is a masterpiece (already).
    And what I always loved to see is finally coming true ("With Heavy Rain, we took a big risk, and said, okay, this is a huge challenge but let's try to ensure that whatever happens we don't need game-over. There will be different ways of dealing with that.";)

  • kangarootoo #108 3 years ago

    @Knot

    The whole "placing button prompts in the environment" part sounds really nice. But that isn't all they were talking about. It is the time pressure aspect that makes a QTE what it is, and it looks like they are still planning on including those in their action scenes. Like I said, I don't dislike them perse, but it didn't seem to me like they were moving away from them in Heavy Rain (which was the initial point made).


    @Kluff

    Well ok, I guess I was taking my cynisism at DG's comments and aiming that at you. I apologise, I shouldn't have been so offhand with you for being the messenger :)

    I still don't buy that restricting choice based on "what the character would do" is an excuse with any weight to it, but I absolutely accept that restricting choice is necessary in any game. I suppose I am questioning why DG feels the need to try and spin something in that way. It makes me suspicious when someone feels they must have a clever answer to every question they are presented with, as if they don't think the truth will be good enough (if DG feels that the truth isn't good enough, why shouldn't I suspect the same?).

    As it happens, the Gamespot review DOES sound very familiar. I didn't read reviews at the time but neither did I read any of the pre-release hype, I just played the game and I remember enjoying it a whole lot.

    Would I be less critical of Heavy Rain if I had not read any of the hype surrounding it or Fahrenheit? Almost certainly. But then this whole article and associated discussion thread exists purely because of the questionable hype. Maybe I should stop reading the hype and try and play HR with clear expectations...

  • kangarootoo #109 3 years ago

    @Creasy

    I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. A masterpiece?

  • rarebit #110 3 years ago

    I mean ffs EG, did they promise you gameplay and then provide only coffee when you got there? In NO way is this a preview, and you might have avoided a bit of comment thread flak by changing the name of the article to interview.

    If QD will show nothing, I can only assume they have nothing to show. I'd love to be wrong 'cos quality adventure games (you know, the kind I was playing 20 years ago while DG was still in short trousers) are in too short supply these days.




    very much agree with these sentiments. would love this to be something fresh, interesting and a different game experience. This whole game will depend on the quality of the writing no matter how classy the style and graphic representation. Its fair to say most writing for games is really shit. Really really shit.
    Apart from Jill the master of unlocking line from Res 1 which was pure class .
    Most people don't care I guess because if you want to shoot someone in the face over and over again you don't need an existential rasion d'etre to do it ( Though Half life 2 manages to deliver a decent story imo).

    With this style of interactive story though the words wot peeps say are vital innit.... LOLZ
    Edited by 1 at 11/01/09 @ 17:41