Haze Comments by Rob Fahey

@PearofAnguish

Erm, please fuck off mate; I did get involved in what plot there was of Bioshock, most of it was window dressing; you're defending it like it was Shakespeare; which is rather pathetic. A lot of the references are just smoke and mirrors.

The manner in which he injected himself with a needle lying about was hilarious, he hardly considered it, just picked it up and stabbed himself. Sure, the powers were explained in the various adverts and voice overs but it still looked funny to me. 'Hmm, a needle, might make me uber 'STAB!'

This isn't a PS3 exclusive: it'll be on the PC and 360 too.

Second Sight was Ace. But without PR muscles, you cannot survive the harsh world of videogames. (no, really, you can't)

The manner in which he injected himself with a needle lying about was hilarious, he hardly considered it, just picked it up and stabbed himself. Sure, the powers were explained in the various adverts and voice overs but it still looked funny to me. 'Hmm, a needle, might make me uber 'STAB!' .

You didnt really understand the story then, or missed a very key point

The character you play was born in rapture and is only 2 years old and been genetically modified to mature rapidly, memories he thought he had didnt actualy exist had just been planted in his head. The reason why he injects himself was just natural instinct, it had nothing to do with the adverts at all was just a natural reaction as that as what he had been brought up to do

Everything Ive seen of this game (which is quite allot as gamer tv et all seem to love it), makes it look quite average. The nectar is quite novel though :)

I think part of the problem with getting the Bioshock story is you had to actually make quite an effort to gather all the facts from the various voice recorders and other bits and peices lying around the environment. I can imagine someone could have just played it as a straight forward shooter and missed most of the recorders and other story cues. If the game never grabbed you from the begining then you can see how some would not have made much effort to get the full story.

Personally I rate the story very highly but then I treated the whole thing more akin to playing an adventure game.

I think the most important thing about Haze is that everyone in the comments thread should argue about BioShock as much as possible.

Gameplay wise, Bioshock was not the best experience I have had but I can also say that Bioshock is among the few games where I actually cared about a digital character. Throughout the game, like Les, I also wondered why I was doing the things that I was doing. All are explained in such a manner that if you did not feel any type of emotion your heart must be made of stone or you are as dense as a block of wood.

isn't there a bioshock thread somewhere for those who want to have this argument YET AGAIN?

The nectar is quite novel though

yeah exactly. can't see why most people have written this off as generic when it's got the whole nectar thing as a major gamplay point which hasn't been done before in games (at least, not this way)...


nb. i haven't played every game in the world, ever, so it may have been done something like this before - but i haven't seen it...


edit: shocking grammar.

Bioshock value is short (good story and graphics, gameplay is ordinary and no multiplayer), no one cares about the game anymore, just a very small percentage of people still have the patience to play trough the campaign again... (i don't mind playing corridor shooters as long as the A.I compensate for it, for example, FEAR is a very linear shooter, but the impressive A.I kept it interesting during the campaign, every battle get's different, and that is not presente in Bioshok) good game though just nothing to writte home about.

But, as someone said, these is "Haze comment section", why talk about Bioshok in here???

come boi moine and eat some of moi potatoes, sure ya will ya cheeky fella, me lucky charms me lucky charms!
....
you durrty rat, are you lookin at me, i don't see no one else in here, follow me while i toin into a rootin tootin final boss (OD's on plasmids) ok oim ready...are you lookin at ME?

A summary of Bioshock written in new game journalism by Billy Brush

"(you now seem to have moved onto saying it looked crap too, which smacks of diversion of a little, though your opinion is valid)."

No, complained about the UE3 look from the start...

"IF you had played the game, it would have all made sense. That is the key thing that got people upset."

I contest it all makes sense: you lot got me intrigued and as I have no intention to get the full game I did a sneak peek at gamefaqs... ;) The story is too contrived for me, though internally reasonably coherent.

edit: So, to clarify, I take back my earlier comments about some of the poor story elements.

Multiplayer isn't necessary to make a game good. Bioshock didn't need it. I enjoyed Heavenly Sword and Uncharted, again no multiplayer there.

@Bumhug360

Yeah but we didn't know that at the time, it was revealed later on that he had grown up there. Hence the hilarity. I thought it was funny anyway, maybe cause I'm from Glasgow originally...

PS. I understood the story perfectly, it's anyone that gives it any literary credence I worry about :p

"@PearofAnguish

Erm, please fuck off mate; I did get involved in what plot there was of Bioshock, most of it was window dressing; you're defending it like it was Shakespeare; which is rather pathetic. A lot of the references are just smoke and mirrors.

The manner in which he injected himself with a needle lying about was hilarious, he hardly considered it, just picked it up and stabbed himself. Sure, the powers were explained in the various adverts and voice overs but it still looked funny to me. 'Hmm, a needle, might make me uber 'STAB!'"

How am I defending it 'like it was Shakespeare'?* I was simply pointing out that it works within the context of the game. Of course it isn't going to make sense if you don't get further than the demo. Lest you believe that I'm some demented, wild-eyed fanboy, I suppose I should mention that I enjoyed Bioshock but that it isn't without flaws. It is, however, silly to dismiss the entire thing from a short demo.



*Why is it impossible to have any kind of discussion on the internet without someone immediately assuming that you're frothing at the mouth while you type?

@Wonga

I agree. I enjoyed Bioshock a lot, but my second playthrough just kind of burned out after a few "levels".

I rarely buy games these days, I tend to rent stuff unless I know I am getting a sack load of hours out of the title.


Sorry everyone to keep adding to the Bioshock discussion on a Haze thread. I guess it says something that many people aren't even interested in arguing about haze :(

"But, as someone said, these is "Haze comment section", why talk about Bioshok in here??? "

Oh my, the irony in that post is well... made of pure undiluted iron.


Anyway, Haze looks to be bland as porridge (without honey, sugar or jam). Glad they didnt use UE3 though. Let's just pretend it doesnt exist and pray the next timesplitters delivers..

@PearofAnguish

Think you need to reread your own post pal, you were spouting off about me being a ' dick like les' cause I disagreed with you on a single scene of Bioshock. It works in context only after the fact, doesn't make it any less funny at the time. I thought Bioshock was pretty good though.

If you have now stopped 'frothing' /peace.

"I dislike UE3 as well. Not because there is something wrong with it but because everybody uses it. I seriously can't tell the difference between COD4, RB6v, etc. You're wrong about bioshock though. It's a fantastic story that is told in a great theatrical method. Technically, the way they tell the story is 100% solid. "

COD4 isn't a UE3 game. if military shooters look the same then...well, they're probably achieving their goals.

can't wait til timesplitters is out really, I just hope the mistakes they make(if they do) with this game will be rectified for when they bring out timesplitters on the PS3.

Multiplayer isn't necessary to make a game good. Bioshock didn't need it. I enjoyed Heavenly Sword and Uncharted, again no multiplayer there.

----------------

thouse games you mentioned aren't shooters... in a FPS, multiplayer is more then necessary, Bioshok had none and that's a shame, that's why no one gives a f*** about the game nowday's, it's replay value is almost zero except for the hardcore fan base. It's gameplay adds nothing to the genre and the A.I is nothing speciall... the only really strong point is the story and the atmosphere/art direction (not the graphics).

Major spoiler ahead!:

"The manner in which he injected himself with a needle lying about was hilarious,"
Man, he did all those things because he was beeing mind controlled, would you kindly play the game proprelly!

@Apologie

"Haze is shaping up to be a very solid PS3 exclusive, visually it's got its own unique style, with four player co-op (Haze's campaign will be a blast with three friends online), big levels, lots of vehicle driving, turret firing settings and some spectacular set pieces these game is gonna rock, the jungle scenery is much welcome too... we're getting a bit bored of identikit Unreal Engine 3 shooters, so Haze's aesthetic should prove to be a selling point, it should keep PS3-owning shooters happy until big-hopes Resistance 2 and Killzone 2 arrive later in the year... to me, Haze is a must buy and will place somewhere between 8/10 and 10/10."

OMG. Did you just put a score on a game you haven't played, because its a PS3 game?

Why is it a 'must buy' exactly? What are you basing it on? Previews and Interviews? Or because its a PS3 game?

Fucking hell, im all for good titles and damn it, the PS3 needs a few, but theres just no basis to go off the rails and make statements like you have done about an unproven game. Wind the fanboi neck in a bit, FFS.

LOL, Sometimes I do think about getting a PS3, but then I read Apolol and headlogs' (whole family) posts, and I'm scared to death. Then again, PSN is kinda mute land isn't it?

Even though it looks a bit generic, I'm still looking forward to Haze. I reckon the 4 player co-op, nectar and Free Radical's pedigree should raise it above average.

About the whole feigning death thing - surely nectar alters your perceptions of reality like most drugs do? Also most soldiers will see you get hurt before you feign death and "disappear" and therefore just assume you died. I kind of do the same thing in CoD4 when I shoot someone, ignore them and then get killed by their "last stand" perk... something I still havent got used to after playing that game for ages.

"I didn't like bioshock either, but your comments are still ridiculous. I mean really, attacking early elements of the story, without completing the story is absurd."

Like I said in my post about the story elements, it might be that there's an explanation for them further on but by that time the game had already lost me.

But knowing how everything falls in its place doesn't make it much better to me TBH. It's a bit like with detectives that I can't stand either. I hate it when the main purpose of the story teller seems to be "look how clever I put all this nonsense together". Bioshock reminds me of Dan Brown. That's not a compliment.

"You can attack the gaming mechanics you got from the demo, sure. But you can't attack a story you haven't played."

Of course I can. I can attack those parts that I did play. Those didn't appeal to me at all so for me the story failed. For you it didn't, fine.

@miiiguel

Sometimes I do think about getting a PS3...

--------------------------

after all you do have some kind of intelligence...

"You mst have a serious problem suspending your beliefs."

No not really. I have problems with stories that don't work for me. Like I said earlier, HL's story is much simpler, more ridiculous but works much better.

Oh Oh Spaghettiohs... I smell a 6/10 burning.

@Les

You are making excuses for your own failings not the game. The reason I say that is because you did not PLAY the game. You can reason all you want but in the end, you did not PLAY enough of the game to even FORM a decent opinion on any elements within the game. If the game did not grab you enough to play it then thats fine and thats where it should stand but trying to pass off an informed opinion about something you barely touched is totally not ok.

You are right you can form whatever opinion you want but you would sound just as silly as people who form opinions about video games who never played them or only saw videos or brief gameplay and deemed them a waste of time.

Hell, I could have formed a opinion that Dune the book was garbage because when I first picked it up, I could not get pass the part where Paul was still on him home planet. I thought the book was boring, confusing and I could not believe it garnered a best seller. 2 years later, I actually went back to Dune and read the whole book and found out that it was a great book which prompted me to read the entire series.

I can see you would make a terrible game reviewer because you would only play games that interest you in the beginning never getting to the good parts because you formed an imperfect opinion.

Most FPS are generic in their very nature but it does help to have a few stand out moments that make it different from the others. I'm a bit worried that there will not be enough variation in characters and a lack of Big Boss Battles for the masse. Mind you CoD4 has none of these either and is very popular so I hope people don't expect massive purple aliens turning up in Haze cos it ain't going to happen.
I'm mostly looking forward to the co-op options in the game but the gameplay is where it really needs to be good.

The hype or anti-hype for this game is always going to make the reviews a bit awkward. If it gets the same treatment that RFOM and ends up being 6 or 7's in reviews it should still be an enjoyable game.

Machiavellian

You are right you can form whatever opinion you want but you would sound just as silly as people who form opinions about video games who never played them or only saw videos or brief gameplay and deemed them a waste of time.

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I said "to me, Haze is a must buy and will place somewhere between 8/10 and 10/10."... these is my opinion and not an absolute truth, of course the game is not out yet, but based on the gameplay videos and overall information gathered, it's shaping up to be a pretty competent and intresting product, i repeat, it's my opinon... now, if it becomes a fact, we will only see after the release... i advise you to read carefully before coming up with silly conclusions regarding other people.

"You are making excuses for your own failings not the game. The reason I say that is because you did not PLAY the game. You can reason all you want but in the end, you did not PLAY enough of the game to even FORM a decent opinion on any elements within the game. If the game did not grab you enough to play it then thats fine and thats where it should stand but trying to pass off an informed opinion about something you barely touched is totally not ok."

Like I said, I played the demo and didn't like it one bit. I wasn't convinced by the reviews or gameplay videos and I didn't think it was that great after playing the demo. I never pretended I played the full game and I even mentioned that the full game might very likely give a 'proper' explanation for the ridiculous events but they were enough to put me off and not even bother.

"You are right you can form whatever opinion you want but you would sound just as silly as people who form opinions about video games who never played them or only saw videos or brief gameplay and deemed them a waste of time."

Thing is, I don't think those people are being silly. The "you can't form an opinion on something if you haven't tried it" is so old and lame and just plain wrong it amazes me people keep digging it up. I don't have to burn my hand to know that that will hurt. I don't have to read the full Harry Potter series in order to know what I knew after 10 pages: this wasn't something I was going to enjoy. We people are perfectly capable of learning and forming opinions based on information supplied by others or taking small parts of information and forming a view on the whole. That's what reviews are for (the text that is, not the stupid scores).

Funny you mention Dune. I think I got halfway through to part 4 or 5 before I got tired of it as quality wasn't really improving to put it mildly.

"I can see you would make a terrible game reviewer because you would only play games that interest you in the beginning never getting to the good parts because you formed an imperfect opinion."

No, if I was a reviewer I would have to work through all the boring bits and wouldn't mind too much as it would have been my job and I was getting paid for it. As it stands, games are a form of enjoyment for me. There are many games and I have little time. If a game fails to please from the start, why would I continue with the very unlikely hope that it might improve in the end? There are plenty of other games that can amuse me from start to finish. I'd do better to spend my time on them. And as it's my opinion, it's bound to be perfect... :P

"Mind you CoD4 has none of these either and is very popular so I hope people don't expect massive purple aliens turning up in Haze cos it ain't going to happen."

But isn't that mainly popular because of the multi-player?

Ah well, we'll see how Haze turns out. The fact that the 'exclusive' preview isn't hyping it that much might be telling if I cared much for EG's opinion on games...

@ Prodigy_BE

The answer is 7.

The perks and upgrades definitely make COD4 stand out. It is still a very generic game and enjoyable, unless you don't like FPS.

@ Les

That's fine then. Like I said, I don't personally like bioshock either. But c'mon, how can you honestly justify judging a storyline a failure, when you don't actually know the storyline?

I mean, you were corrected on why he injected himself, and you withdrew your earlier statements. So then you can you judge the rest of the story?
And reading FAQs isn't the same as playing the game. That's like reading the script of the green mile (reading the script, not a book) and judging the movie. The story has to be put within the context and framework of the game (story revelation, music, atmposphere, environment. These are things you cannot get from reading game FAQs).

And for crying out loud, I don't even like the blasted game.

"I don't have to read the full Harry Potter series in order to know what I knew after 10 pages: this wasn't something I was going to enjoy."

Harry Potter!? Now you've gone too far Les!

>"I don't have to read the full Harry Potter series in order to know what I knew after 10 pages: this wasn't something I was going to enjoy"

As someone who also dislikes harry potter, I can tell you this;
It is one thing disliking the book because you already know it's not a book you will like. It's another to judge the storyline when you haven't read the book.

See the difference?

"@PearofAnguish

Think you need to reread your own post pal, you were spouting off about me being a ' dick like les' cause I disagreed with you on a single scene of Bioshock. It works in context only after the fact, doesn't make it any less funny at the time. I thought Bioshock was pretty good though.

If you have now stopped 'frothing' /peace."

Oh my, did I really say dick? Go and read the post again, properly this time.

And nobody was frothing, but you seem to be having some trouble reading so I'll let you off.

I must start avoiding these comments threads.

@PearOfFroth

You called me a 'tit' for having a different opinion, that's all right then o,O

PS. Stop frothing

Actually Gaol he called you a tit for not knowing what the hell you were talking about. You still do not know what you are talking about but I am sure you will defend it until the day you die. Anyone who has played the game can see you have absolutly no knowledge of what you are speaking on and it gets worst as you continue to pursue the subject.

I guess this subject is easily argued but One thing I do know Les is that no one ask an opinion from someone on a subject they have little to no experience. So yes you have an opinion but it matters to no one but you because it is uninformed. Uninformed opinions should be kept where they belong, to yourself because they carry no weight.

As the bodybuilder has said plenty of times, how can you form a opinion on something you have no knowledge about.

"I mean, you were corrected on why he injected himself, and you withdrew your earlier statements. So then you can you judge the rest of the story?"

That I contest (the logic of performing the injection by 'instinct': it was a nice try by the writers but I don't buy it). I don't really judge the rest of the story (just that the demo in my case hurt the game rather than sell it). I am aware that reading a script/faq is a poor substitute for experiencing a story in a game, which is why I have refrained from criticizing it any furhter (except for calling it rather contrived).

"So yes you have an opinion but it matters to no one but you because it is uninformed."

I never expected it to matter to anyone but here we have a full thread about Bioshock instead of Haze, the subject of the story...

"As the bodybuilder has said plenty of times, how can you form a opinion on something you have no knowledge about."

But I do have knowledge about the early parts of the story and I'm perfectly capable of forming an opinion of it: I didn't like it so it didn't entice me to move forward. The story and game failed for me. Like I said before, we humans are designed* to make decisions based on incomplete sets of information because we can learn from earlier experiences and transpose them on new ones. There is a small chance that it will lead to incorrect decisions once in a while but it's a more practical (and safe) approach than trying to experience everything in full before deciding whether it was worth it or not.

* By 'design' I of course don't mean 'design' in the way that we humans create something for a specific purpose but the process of evolution through variation and natural selection.

I must start avoiding these comments threads

This.

ooh, have free radical got a new game coming out? has it got anything to do with bioshock?

I watched some HD videos of Haze on GameTrailers last night and the game looks very nice, like a cross between Far Cry and Halo, but nothing special in terms in gameplay. However, good FPSs are not as common on the PS3 as they are on the 360 so if it's a solid game then it could do very well, especially if the multiplayer is very good, something that's very feasible given that Free Radical are behind the TimeSplitters series.

>"which is why I have refrained from criticizing it any furhter (except for calling it rather contrived)."

So you've refrained from commenting on it further, yet STILL had to add an extra comment on it? within the same sentence?

Whether you "buy" the injection is irrelevant. The point is that you withdrew your statement because you acknowledged it was made out of ignorance (after being corrected). Surely you must be able to see you're still doing it for the rest of the story?

But either way, this is all pointless.