Harrison urges calm on PS3 BC

By Tom Bramwell Published 14 March, 2007

"The strategy is still in place."

Sony's Phil Harrison reckons "everybody just needs to calm down", telling our sister site GamesIndustry.biz that the strategy behind PlayStation 3's backwards compatibility with PS1 and PS2 is still in place.

That's despite strong reaction to news last month that the European PS3 specification would be altered to help save Sony money - the cost being a lower number of supported games from past formats.

"The strategy has not changed. We have made a technical change to the machine which moves us from being a hardware-embedded backwards compatibility solution to one which is a combination of hardware and software," Harrison told gi.biz in an interview during GDC.

"While that has unfortunately reduced the total number of games that will be compatible from the PS2 catalogue, it's important to remember that the PS1 catalogue remains unchanged, and definitely, March 23, we expect over 1000 titles to be playable for PlayStation 2. Within that list is the vast majority of games you would want to play.

"So I think everybody just needs to calm down and be comfortable that the strategy is still in place."

Sony plans to publish a backwards compatibility list on 23rd March, with additional titles set to be supported through downloads via the PlayStation Network.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (132) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Steroyd #1 5 years ago

    God of War 2?
    Rogue Galaxy?
    Everybody's Tennis?

    Oh wait they're not released yet.

  • 2099net #2 5 years ago

    Why can't he publish the list now, so that people who are pre-ordering can actually, you know, see what they are pre-ordering?

    Is that too much to ask?

  • orakio #3 5 years ago

    translated ad lib:

    "harrison urges the community to STFU"

  • lennon #4 5 years ago

    Was he wearing a kevin keegan wig and a shell suit when he said this?

  • lambtron #5 5 years ago

    lol

  • penhalion #6 5 years ago

    The fact that they wait until release day should tell everyone who was thinking of getting a PS3, that the list isn't going to sit well with gamers. It's a common enough strategy called burying bad news. What better time to release the list than while people are distracted by the release day hoo-ha

  • Talha #7 5 years ago

    a more accurate translation would be:

    "You really thought you'd play PS2 games on our shiny new blu-ray player? Ha, the joke's on you, suckers. Want to play PS2 games? Get a PS2 to play them! (We are still building them, you know). Now shut up or we will fit your PS3 SIXAXIS with one of OUR batteries"

  • Skeletor #8 5 years ago

    Calm down?! I don't think so:
    http://ww w.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?...

  • GamesConnoisseur #9 5 years ago

    "So I think everybody just needs to calm down.."

    Saying that mean they are rattled about our anger, but still would have been far better to hear "the component removed from European model will be likewise applied to USA and Japan right now", what we are angry about is paying more for less! Simple math and a sense of justice.

    I still will get PS3 BUT not perhaps for couple of years or so, as by then I will certainly be zen calm.

  • Steroyd #10 5 years ago

    Why can't he publish the list now, so that people who are pre-ordering can actually, you know, see what they are pre-ordering?

    Is that too much to ask?

    Probably is.

    The emulator is supposed to come with the 1.6 firmwire which probably won't be finalized until the last minute...

    It's not worth putting a list out now because say God of War doesn't work on it right NOW and it's not on the list and you cancel your pre-order then on launch day they get it working and you'll be like "D'oh, Damn you Sony why did you leave it till the last minute i could've pre-ordered."

  • mankell #11 5 years ago

    Now that is pure arrogance. People who have paid £425 have a right to be slightly upset at the news that the machine has been changed significantly and he tells them to calm down. What a tit.

  • enzima #12 5 years ago

    It seems our worst fears are coming true....the BC via software will be done in $ony style, if what the inquirer is reporting is true. That sucks major....no gow!!!




    http://ww w.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?...

  • northernlights #13 5 years ago

    'Calm down, dear its only a backward compatibility list' commented harrison

  • Steroyd #14 5 years ago

    Wow I'm surprised a title worked without the 1.6 firmwire AT ALL. :o

  • aabyssx #15 5 years ago

    > Why can't he publish the list now

    Probably because they are still working on it, and it's not yet clear what they can achieve in the firmware update that will be released on launch day.

  • Vex #16 5 years ago

    "So I think everybody just needs to calm down and be comfortable that the strategy is still in place."

    Maybe it's my morning, haven't had a coffee yet mood, but this strikes me as so arrogant. Almost asking people to be grateful they still have any backward compatibility strategy at all.

  • Steroyd #17 5 years ago

    Hey wait a sec theinquirer.net?
    they spout ten kinds of BS.

    Anyway:
    I did it, i found a positive spin on the BC news.

    * Phil did confirm that the PAL/Euro version of the Playstation 3 currently has over 1200 compatible PS2 titles, with more to be added to the list by the time the console launches. This will be via a necessary firmware upgrade to 1.6

    <a href=http://www.playthree.net/2007/03/euro pean-ps3-has-over-1200-compatible.html>Yay \o/</a>

  • moggsy #18 5 years ago

    Probably because they are still working on it, and it's not yet clear what they can achieve in the firmware update that will be released on launch day.

    Come off it. They know exactly which games will definitely work on release day. They may not yet have the full list but what's wrong with releasing the list as it stands now?

  • Stormflood #19 5 years ago

    Stop linking the fucking inquirer 'story'. Seriously, it's getting boring now. That's a pre-launch-firmware machine they tested them on, it means nothing.

  • RexRunti #20 5 years ago

    Does the 1000 backwards compatible games include or exclude PS1 titles?

  • Steroyd #21 5 years ago

    Because you could cancel your pre-order on a game that may be available on B/C at launch.

    Might as well have a as it stands when PS3 enters your home list than a pending list before it's in people's homes.

  • Steroyd #22 5 years ago

    Does the 1000 backwards compatible games include or exclude PS1 titles?

    Excludes PS1 games.

    Software B/C for PS1 games has been done since the PStwo.

  • aabyssx #23 5 years ago

    > They may not yet have the full list but what's wrong with releasing the list as it stands now?

    Maybe because it's nowhere near the promise and hope that it will chage by forcing everybody to work all night and day on it?

    Just guessing...

  • jebus #24 5 years ago

    @2099net

    Because there will hardly be anything running properly and a shite list of a few hundred - as opposed to "over 1000" games will put even more people off. ]

    Calm down my arse - Sony should stop treating their consumers like fucking idiots then there would be no need to ask people to "calm down" Again it's not really the fact that the BC issue is going to be handled by software emulation - which is bad enough, it's the fact that the EuroPEONS get totally shafted as everywhere else gets nice fast hardware emulation for half the fucking price. I can't believe they have made this statement to be honest.





  • RexRunti #25 5 years ago

    "Because you could cancel your pre-order on a game that may be available on B/C at launch."

    Or you can cancel your pre-order because you don't know if a game is available and would rather wait til you see that list before comitting to £425. After all it's not like it will be that difficult to pick one up on launch day.

  • mkreku #26 5 years ago

    Europe is like a big bag of easy money for Sony.

    BOYCOTT THE PS3.

  • bioreit #27 5 years ago

    @ Steroyd Edit 1: And at StormFlood. Damn phone - stop RINGING!

    Yeah, but like you say, how come one game worked on 1.5 firmware at all?

    And why Eragon, of all titles?

    Something is just not quite right about all of this.

    Either none of those games should have worked, or the majority should have.

    As has been said before, maybe some games were made BC prior to the 1.6 firmware update for testing and suchlike, but again - WHY ERAGON? Why not something a bit more fun, or big-selling, or technically impressive?

    I personally envisage a repeat of the 360 BC - yes, over 1200 PS2 titles may work come next Friday, but that list won't be comprised of popular titles, or favourites, or series big hitters.

    It will be populated with the games easiest to code for. Games which have several sequels. Games which re-use other games' engines.

    That doesn't necessarily equal a good or a bad thing, but blind faith that all the top games will work soon (even ever) is just silly.

    (Last bit not really directed at Steroyd, more of a general statement)

    <a href='http://www.shift-f7.co.uk< /a>'>Shift-F7.co.uk</a>
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 09:48

  • bdc #28 5 years ago

    CILM DOON CILM DOON

  • RexRunti #29 5 years ago

    How the hell can you rigourously test 1000 games in a month or two? How do we know that ALL of these games won't have some kind of problem which makes the game unplayable/uncompleteable.

    PS Yes I know BC is a red herring, but I don't like being lied to.

  • Iora #30 5 years ago

    I like this man. I can imagine him saying it like this.

    "Stop yer whining FFS"

    genius cos its true.

  • AcidSnake #31 5 years ago

    "You just need to calm down gamers!"

    "...I'm calmer than you are..."

    "Shit, gamers..."

    "Calmer than you are"

    (Yes, another exciting episode of spot the quote)

  • andyk #32 5 years ago

    Over time BC will become available for the majority of PS2 games. If you don't want a PS3 at launch or for couple of years, why are you bitching?

    If you do, I am sure you could use your existing PS2 for the time being if the game you want to play is not supported.

    Also most games probably work with software emulation, but the reason the list is not published and some games will not be 'activated' through the firmware is because there may be still legal issues to overcome for emulating certain software like renderware for instance.

  • moggsy #33 5 years ago

    How the hell can you rigourously test 1000 games in a month or two?

    They've been working on this for quite a while, not just a month or two.

  • Steroyd #34 5 years ago

    Yeah, but like you say, how come one game worked on 1.5 firmware at all?

    And why Eragon, of all titles?

    Because it doesn't push the system to it's limits like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Shadow of the Colosss (and all the other titles on that list) does, Sony is still including the GS chip H/W in every Euro PS3 so it won't be as gimped as the Xbox, which was through pure software emulation, because of the GS chip inside the PS3, it most probably will be all the shite titles work without Sony even trying much as is the Eragon example.

    That doesn't necessarily equal a good or a bad thing, but blind faith that all the top games will work soon (even ever) is just silly.

    Again Sony nailed 99.99% of PS1 titles through software B/C with the PStwo and it was done so discretely it never caused an uproar, so why couldn't they do the same with the PS2 emulation? (minus the "discrete" and "uproar" part).

  • 2099net #35 5 years ago

    Don't forget 1200 titles is still just 50% of all PS2 games by Sony's own figures. So even if the 1200 as promised do work, it's a similar percentage to the current 360 BC list.

    And even then, will all the listed games work 100%, or crap out on level 6?

    I don't believe the update hasn't been finalised now - its 9 days until launch! They (should) be using those 9 days to test all the other updates in the download and making sure everything works together. They can't be adding BC code now, because (in theory) everything in the update will need regression testing with each change. Unless you fancy the possibility of a bricked console.

    Finally, an update on release date is fine for those "connected", but all PS2s are being pre-sold as being 100% backwards compatible. Hows it going to look for all those "unconnected" players, when approximately zero PS2 titles work on their 1.5 machines. Unless they are preloaded with 1.6 which means THE UPDATE IS COMPLETE and titles that are playable "out of the box" can be listed on the Sony site.

  • dredd97 #36 5 years ago

    'How the hell can you rigourously test 1000 games in a month or two? How do we know that ALL of these games won't have some kind of problem which makes the game unplayable/uncompleteable.'

    Sony have probably been working on it for months now...

    just because a german website got hold of a pre-release machine with old firmware, all of a sudden the sky is falling down!

    relax and chill... save your anger for the 23rd, (if anger is required)

  • spliffhead #37 5 years ago

    All five of my pre-orders got canceled yesterday, as much as I would like to play resistance and ermm errmm.

    If they reduced the components reduce the price.

    Or stfu.

  • AcidSnake #38 5 years ago

    Good point 2099net...
    I didn't think about the unconnected players...
    Either they'll be screwed, or Sony isn't releasing a BC list despite having it...

  • Xerx3s #39 5 years ago

    "So I think everybody just needs to calm down and be comfortable that the strategy is still in place."

    I was calm and not bothered but I think that I can make up my own mind on whether I should be pissed or not tyvm. Oh, and it's nice to know that we should be comfortable that the strategy is in place that will give you extra money and us less functionality.

    /claps slowly

  • drumbaby #40 5 years ago

    I'm calm....now just tell me the facking list MAVVERFACKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • WestBullet #41 5 years ago

    I am so close to cancelling my pre-order and just buying a PS2.

    I have Shadow of the Colossus still shrink wrapped and I need to play it, i can't hold out much longer!

    If its not supported on launch day or if it runs like crap, Resistance can kiss my bum bum.

  • kangarootoo #42 5 years ago

    Can people stop linking to the Inquirer ffs. Its a sack of tabloid shit. I come to sites like EG to avoid that sort of bollox (I know I don't have to follow the link, and I don't, buts the principle).

    And I think it says something about a positve change in public opinion when the only bad news people can find to link these days is in the cocking inquirer.

  • NthSimulachum #43 5 years ago

    five pre-orders?

  • The_Programmer #44 5 years ago

    "The strategy has not changed. We have made a technical change to the machine which moves us from being a hardware-embedded backwards compatibility solution to one which is a combination of hardware and software,"

    What a dumb statement. That statement itself shows that their strategy has changed.

  • Steroyd #45 5 years ago

    How the hell can you rigourously test 1000 games in a month or two? How do we know that ALL of these games won't have some kind of problem which makes the game unplayable/uncompleteable.

    PS Yes I know BC is a red herring, but I don't like being lied to.

    Just look at how Sony setup the US's Backwards compatibility list and look at how detailed it is.

    <a href=http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleStatus >US B/C list</a>

    Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
    Publisher: Konami Digital Ent.Product No: SLUS-21243
    Description: During network gameplay, with 1 PS3 user hosting a Team Deathmatch Game Type, and 5 other users as clients, the host is randomly disconnected, and is unable to reconnect

    Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (Limited Edition)
    Publisher: Konami Digital Ent.Product No: SLUS-21243 / 21359 / 21360
    Description: The following conditions have been confirmed on PS3 System Software Version 1.10: Throughout the title, with the PS3 using HDMI out, the screen appears divided horizontally, and both of the divided portions of the screen display out of sync from one another. All conditions have been resolved on PS3 System Software Version 1.31.

    Okami
    Publisher: CapcomProduct No: SLUS-21115
    Description: The following conditions have been confirmed on PS3 System Software Version 1.00: At random points throughout the title, when an FMA plays, the audio stutters at a random point during playback, and continues to stutter throughout the duration of the FMA. All conditions have been resolved on PS3 System Software Version 1.10.

    Hell they even stretched out details on PSone game.

    Final Fantasy Anthology
    Publisher: Square EA (Square Enix)Product No: SLUS-00879
    Description: On the Final Fantasy V Disc (Disc 1), when the user’s character progresses to the first save point, and selects SAVE from the Game Menu, a black transition screen appears and the title hangs.

    If there's going to be a game breaking glitch Sony will let you know.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 10:17

  • SBfistfun #46 5 years ago

    If that's the case baldy, publish the list of games BEFORE the machines release.

  • Killerbee #47 5 years ago

    It's the list that's key. 1000+ titles is plenty as long as they pick the right ones. And that doesn't mean FIFA 05, 04, 03, 02, 01 (... and back into the mists of time) because surely no one is playing those any more.

    For me though, it does mean some titles that didn't set the charts alight, like Beyond Good & Evil, Psychonauts and Transformers. The real problem right now is no one knows how Sony have chosen to target the games the make work with the emulation software - the assumption is they'll go for the easiest to emulate or the most popular titles, whereas I suspect what most hardcore gamers (i.e. the ones who actually care about BC) want are the most worthy - those that hold pride of place in a gamer's collection. Chances of that happening...?

  • GChris #48 5 years ago

    "I don't believe the update hasn't been finalised now - its 9 days until launch! [...] They can't be adding BC code now, because (in theory) everything in the update will need regression testing with each change. Unless you fancy the possibility of a bricked console."

    I imagine that the code already has been finalised, but was probably finished at the last possible moment to allow as much work to be included as possible, so testing and documenting what works and what doesn't work will take a long time and won't be ready until 23/03 (or thereabouts).

    I imagine that the amount of work involved in testing 2000 odd PS2 games and writing up the results is quite extensive.

  • enzima #49 5 years ago

    Wow, the GDC gave sony a full 5 days of good news! But now a new week is starting, and sony is back to their routine...How sad!

  • peterfll #50 5 years ago

    Can I just say that I recently bought the latest Edge "FILE" compendium and there was Phil, back in 1996 in interview over the launch of the first Playstation. Looking about 17, speaking without the recent arrogance overtone.

    Oh, how several years at the top will change a man.

  • Moz #51 5 years ago

    @2099net They might do what Ninty did with the very first few Wiis in the states and produce an update disc for 1.6 that will be sent to retailer by corrier the day before launch. They could send the final patch code to be pressed as late as tuesday night next week.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 10:34

  • RexRunti #52 5 years ago

    @Steroyd

    1. Those were all running essentially of a PS2 built into the PS3.
    2. All those details were obviously reported by end users back to Sony, which Sony then checked and fixed (which is why these vary with firmware update)
    3. Software emulation is MUCH harder than hardware emulation.
    4. The more complicated the hardware the harder it is to emulate via software.
    5. The more complicated the games the harder it is to emulate via software.
    6. Sony will only tell you of a problem if you ask them.
    7. Sony can't get BC on hardware 100%
    8. Sony HAVEN'T told us what games are on the BC list let alone on the BC but with problems list.
    9. Having blind faith in Sony is just plain stupid.
    10. MS released a BC list prior to launch and it didn't hurt their pre-orders (yes I know MS's BC is proably worse but they didn't tell us that half the games they promised would work wouldn't a moth prior to launch).

  • jebus #53 5 years ago

    Yeah they might. I think if they were then they should say so and provide the list of BC games.

    They sound like they are stalling to me. Utter wankers -I have never seen such aggresive treatment of a comapnys consumers. It's like dealing with NTL.

  • mkreku #54 5 years ago

    That's odd. Despite my boycott attempts, the PS3 is at the top of at least one of the biggest pre-order lists in Sweden, Webhallen.se.

  • El_MUERkO #55 5 years ago

    Weak questioning by GI.biz allowing for a weak answer from Mr. Harrison, god this sites gone to shite in the last year.

  • kissthestick #56 5 years ago

    yep PS3 is gonna flop......


    oh wait
    http://ww w.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/v...

  • RexRunti #57 5 years ago

    @mkreku

    I wouldn't trust those lsits personally it's like the top ten in game, they just put whatever they want at number one (hence AAA titles always being at no1 on the day of release). Online they just populate the rest with actual sales if they want to.

    That said surely you shouldn't be able to get a PS3 with barely a week to launch anyway. Sony must have millions of PS3s in Europe or something.

  • moggsy #58 5 years ago

    Yep, but this is also a top seller:

    Vmigo Console

    Certainly better value than the PS3!

  • zuljin #59 5 years ago

    @RexRunti
    "6. Sony will only tell you of a problem if you ask them."
    Actually, pretty much the same for most companies...

    "7. Sony can't get BC on hardware 100%"
    Again, this applies to pretty much every company.

    "9. Having blind faith in Sony is just plain stupid."
    Havng blind faith in anything is stupid.

    "10. MS released a BC list prior to launch and it didn't hurt their pre-orders"
    Thats because everyone knew their list was going to be pretty shoddy from the start. Releasing a list of the games that would be supported would only help their cause.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 11:08

  • spongebob #60 5 years ago

    And I thought "selling out" is a bad thing. Guess other console's fans think selling out is cool :)

  • bioreit #61 5 years ago

    @ Steroyd

    Actually, the PS2 has a hardware BC solution.

    It had the Emotion Engine and PS One chips in it, then later revisions put a unified EE+GS (don’t know what the GS stands for) chip in.

    Which all PS2 consoles still have.

    So you see, the reason why PS1 games worked so darn well in the PS2, is because each PS2 effectively had a PS1 built into it!

    PS2 used software to AID the effectiveness of the hardware solution.

    Edit 1: Oh, and the PS3 STILL has the PS1 HARDWARE solution in it. It's just the PS2 Emotion Engine that has been relegated to software.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 12:27

  • RexRunti #62 5 years ago

    @zuljin

    Actually agree with evrthing you've said but on point 10, I'm expecting Sony's list to be shoddy, releasing it would/could remove my fears.

  • AcidSnake #63 5 years ago

    "7. Sony can't get BC on hardware 100%"
    Again, this applies to pretty much every company.

    Ninty did a fine job with Wii/Gamecube compatibility...
    100% I think...
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 11:31

  • RexRunti #64 5 years ago

    Actually looking at how the PS3 BC list works on US site i'm going to offer a bit of PR advice to Sony (let's face it they need it). On the US site you have to type the name of a game and it tells you if it's backwards compatiable or if there are any problems. This is asking for trouble in Europe, just have one big page with them listed on. Otherwise come the 23rd people will (as an example) put in FF XII, MGS3 and Okami and are then told (say) Okami doesn't work, people are going to get annoyed and bitch about it on this and other forums. If you put it on a long list people will look for FF XII, MGS3 and Okami and won't find Okami but will find (say) God of War, GTA3 and several other games they're interested in and think "well at least those will work, I haven't actually bought God of War, I might as well".

  • zuljin #65 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    "Ninty did a fine job with Wii/Gamecube compatability...
    100% I think..."

    It's just me being pedantic. Theres always some game somewhere that is unsupported in some case. PS2 BC was pretty amazing too, but I'm sure it failed in some instances.

    @RexRunti
    "Actually agree with evrthing you've said but on point 10, I'm expecting Sony's list to be shoddy, releasing it would/could remove my fears."
    Fair enough. I think the main reason for it is this huge leap in BC from version 1.5 to 1.6. I'm fairly certain theres a fair number of people working late hours to try and test as many games as possibly just so they can get that list as big as possible, and as a result, the number of supported games changes on a daily basis.

  • ManicDrunkMonk #66 5 years ago

    I actually cancelled my pre-order over this. I want to know the games that are going to be BC before I purchase the new console. That way I can decide whether it is worth adopting early.

    I still intend to get the console in September, but thats assuming some key PS2 titles are working.

  • chupachups #67 5 years ago

    "Phil did confirm that the PAL/Euro version of the Playstation 3 currently has over 1200 compatible PS2 titles, with more to be added to the list by the time the console launches. This will be via a necessary firmware upgrade to 1.6 "

    I would love to know how they define "titles".

    In the past Sony has claimed the PS2 library had something ridiculous like 10,000 "titles", but they clearly don't mean 10,000 completely different games. At that rate, there should have been over 30 new games a week for the PS2's entire lifespan.

    Are they adding together local variations, re-releases etc?
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 11:41

  • chupachups #68 5 years ago

    "It's good to see that after a few days of relative calm the same old bitching and moaning by the same old people is in full swing again"

    You don't see any hint of arrogance in the way Sony delivers its public statements nowadays?

    If Sony had cut the price of the Euro PS3 a bit, or actually just apologised for the lower BC, it wouldn't have been so bad.

    But what they're actually doing is telling Europeans to "calm down", even though Europeans are paying more for a less functional and more delayed console.

    Sony seem to think it's the job of gamers to buy PlayStation products.

  • enzima #69 5 years ago

    @ chupachups

    Don´t you get it? You should be happy that sony allows you to give them 600 euros....and you even wanna complain....be gratefull, spoiled brat!


    P.S. You thought you had an option on whether to buy a ps3? You simply have to, and after you have to bend over and apologize!
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 12:17

  • Scythe #70 5 years ago

    @acidsnake:
    "Ninty did a fine job with Wii/Gamecube compatibility...
    100% I think... "

    Well that couldn't have been difficult, could it? Conssider the difference between XB and 360 or PS2 and PS3 then cosider teh difference between GC and Wii. Not surprising the Wii has 100% BC considering it pretty much IS a GC just with a new controller.

  • Fiach #71 5 years ago

    Harrison urges Europe...

    "STFU noobs, it's a Sony!"

  • zuljin #72 5 years ago

    I'm getting sick and tired of people moaning and whining about this "price difference".

    At an exchange of 1.92 US dollars to the pound, a PS3 is about 100 quid cheaper in the US. The XBox core system is 50 quid cheaper in the US (but is half the price...) You want to moan at someone? Get down to HMV/Virgin/Game and ask them why they insist in screwing customers over. No doubt about it, PS3 is an expensive piece of kit, you either think it's worth it or not, but Europeans are getting screwed by retailers...

    Grrr... Rant over...

  • spongebob #73 5 years ago

    Throwing mud at PS3 and Sony is so passe. Talking about the alleged arrogance Phil Harrison has developed is pointless. PS3 is still expensive and the limited backward compatibility a drag, but don't you you regular whiners think it's time you move on..

  • chupachups #74 5 years ago

    "I'm getting sick and tired of people moaning and whining about this "price difference". "

    You're missing the point: because of the BC being crippled on the PS3, we're getting a price difference AND worse hardware.

    Everyone was expecting a more expensive console, all consoles are more expensive in Europe. What people weren't expecting was a console that was heavily delayed, more expensive AND with worse hardware than in the US.

    What's more, Europe doesn't even get the PS3 20GB option, which only costs £200 in Japan.


    "Throwing mud at PS3 and Sony is so passe."

    It's not throwing mud, it's reasonable complaint.

    Or do you think praising Sony can never go out of fashion?

    We didn't start this topic, Sony started this topic by telling us to "calm down". They keep raising these topics by coming up with plain stupid public statements, like that Sony guy who claimed the Wii was too expensive.
    Edited by 2 at 14/03/07 @ 12:42

  • andromeda #75 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake

    Sony peed on our rug, Dude.

  • zuljin #76 5 years ago

    @chupachups
    "that was heavily delayed, more expensive AND with worse hardware than in the US."

    Delayed yes - but irrelevant imo. I prob won't get it at launch anyway, I rarely get a console at launch, and wait till some standout games...
    More expensive, well no because that was my previous point.
    Worse hardware yes, but they won't just give up after launch... More games will be supported over time. After all, when they release PS5, you don't really want to be paying for a PS2, PS3 and PS4 chip now do you? So it really was a matter of time, but nonetheless bad timing.

    I agree on the 20gig option tho... Still more upset at HMV than Sony tho. There are times when I walk into HMV and a game I want will be 4 times the price of Virgin. Considering Virgin still makes a profit, it just makes HMV greedy &*$%...

  • Beano #77 5 years ago

    "Software B/C for PS1 games has been done since the PStwo. "

    Does the slim PS2 run PSone games thru software emulation?

    Just curious...

  • Beano #78 5 years ago

    "Ninty did a fine job with Wii/Gamecube compatibility... 100% I think... "

    Because the Wii is a GC with a fancy controller... so the joke is on you.... oh wait... us (I got a Wii also) ;)

  • spongebob #79 5 years ago

    Weird that there's not a complaint flood on every X360 related news thread, then, if it's just fair to keep moaning and bitching about the same old PS3 facts over and over again. X360 has lot of problems with the hardware yet people don't mind. I am not going to pay for a console that breaks down all the time. For a piece of machinery like that, even 100 quid would be overpriced, don't you think?

  • gth #80 5 years ago

    "You're missing the point: because of the BC being crippled on the PS3, we're getting a price difference AND worse hardware. "

    What the f...we get 1200 compatible titles...I could not name 20 titles that I really want to play again.

  • NoCodeNed2 #81 5 years ago

    Evidently 1200+ and still rising was announced last night, or so I read on the forums here - anyone who was at the thing last night want to confirm that?

  • SBfistfun #82 5 years ago

    Quick, chuck him a crab pattie !

  • enzima #83 5 years ago

    watch spongebob trying to divert this onto 360, is freaking funny, and frankly is a bit pointless.....even though people call us 360 fanboys cuz we complain about sony, we really are not! actually, i would be quite happy to add a ps3 next to my wii and 360, and then be called a sony fanboy. Its just that sony keeps on treating Europe like the retarded cousin, and i cant be happy about it.

  • bonker #84 5 years ago

    "So I think everybody just needs to calm down and be comfortable that the strategy is still in place."

    Like they had any kind of PS3 strategy ever ...

    +

    Cheeky cunt ain't he?

  • bonker #85 5 years ago

    "My local HMV have actually had to resort to sellotaping a ragged bit of paper in their window (saying "only" 50 PS3 pre-orders left) pretty sad as the signs been up for days now.It's not even like it's some out of the way store, It's in one of the busiest shopping centres in the UK. "

    One of the many please-buy-a-PS3-from-us emails I've had in the last few days actually had a separate email address to cancel your PS3 pre-order with!!! Think it was Gamestation.

    They must have people dedicated to handling the pre-order cancellations!

    PS3 pre-order cancellations by the million FTW!

  • SeesThroughAll #86 5 years ago

    Before seeing that LBP demo, the ability to run GoW2 on the PS3 looked more essential than it does now... I never owned neither a PS1 nor a PS2, and it seems the PS3 will be getting solid releases over time, so I think I can do without that...

    But I'm not expecting too much from this emulation crap anyway.

  • Beano #87 5 years ago

    "My local HMV have actually had to resort to sellotaping a ragged bit of paper in their window (saying "only" 50 PS3 pre-orders left) pretty sad as the signs been up for days now"

    A manufactured shortage is a well known way of hyping people to preorder... if they wrote "we got plenty PS3s - but pre-order now" not many would rush in ;)

    I don't expect major shortages - with 1 million units for europe, there should be enough for people who want one at day one.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 13:24

  • phaydren #88 5 years ago

    I have seen some really good point brought up here about the backwards compatability and quite frankly there is one i was expecting to have been asked much earlier.

    How much hard disk space will be taken up by this new emulation software, i mean would it be worth buying a consoe that is semi crippled because of the simple fact that 20%-40% of its hard disk is dedicated to software emulation.

    i mean it really hurt the xbox 360 that 13gigs of its 20 gig hard disk was eaten by the emulator, if its the same with the ps3 then il skip right over playing ps2 games on it and stick with my ps2.

  • Beano #89 5 years ago

    "It would of been nice for Phil to state that removal of the EE is part of the long term plan for all territories, they haven't said, they have felt no need to comfort us."

    Sony have announced that US and Japan will get the new software BC PS3 soon also... I belive stating from april or may.

    But does that really comfort you?
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 13:31

  • Beano #90 5 years ago

    phaydren: Don't expect the software emulator to take more than 10-20 MB on your harddrive... at most!

    It will not be an issue.

  • bioreit #91 5 years ago

    @ Beano

    ""Software B/C for PS1 games has been done since the PStwo. "

    Does the slim PS2 run PSone games thru software emulation?

    Just curious..."

    No. All PSOne emulation done by the PS2 is through hardware, bar the graphical improvements, etc.

    All PSOne emulation by the PS3 is hardware too.

    It is only the PS2 emulation done by the European PS3 that is software-only.

    Don’t know where Steroyd got his info from, but the PS2 has ALWAYS had a hardware emulation solution.

  • enzima #92 5 years ago

    Its you saying April or May, or you got a link of Harrison releasing the statement?

    I believe i read something much more vague than that....i really want to see what will happen in the US if they release the crippled ps3 there....

  • Beano #93 5 years ago

    "Its you saying April or May, or you got a link of Harrison releasing the statement? "

    It was Sony what specficly said april or may recently, I can't remember who but it was not Harrison.

    Besides - it's quite logical that Sony will get the revised version on the marked worldwise ASAP. They are not doing this to screw europeans... whey are under pressure financially and desperately want to save money on the manufacturing of PS3.

  • spud71 #94 5 years ago

    Shit! First it can't emulate the PS2 properly, then they say it can't emulate PS1. This Cell Chipset is not really as amazing as they would have us believe. Yet Heavenly Sword looks like it is advancing on what God Of War was doing.

  • kangarootoo #95 5 years ago

    @enzima

    "P.S. You thought you had an option on whether to buy a ps3? You simply have to, and after you have to bend over and apologize!"

    Man, I hope you are being sarcastic. This kind of attitude just drives me nuts.

    YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT, you bloody whining kid! If you don't like the deal, don't spend the money. Its that simple, its what grown ups do every day as part of normal life.

    No one is forcing you to buy anything. What are you, an addict? If so, get treatment.

    Jeeezuz...

  • SeesThroughAll #96 5 years ago

    All PSOne emulation by the PS3 is hardware too.

    Very wrong. PSOne emulation is 100% done through software, but the PSOne is such an old and simple machine by today's standards, even the puny PSP does a damn fine job at emulating it.

    PS2 is extremely difficult to emulate, therein lies the difference.

  • AcidSnake #97 5 years ago

    @andromeda:
    You win! :)
    "Here lies Europe...Europe who loved gaming"

    @scythe:
    Please stop that...

  • Beano #98 5 years ago

    "Shit! First it can't emulate the PS2 properly, then they say it can't emulate PS1"

    What the hell are you talking about???

    Nobody (except Sony) have seen the emulator which lands march 23rd.

  • Beano #99 5 years ago

    "So if they want to save money, Isn't it logical to remove the EE from all of the models, not just the European one. "

    They are - that's my point!!

    USA and japan get the new PS3 version soon (from april/may).

    The cost of the PS3 obviously have been higher than planned (highter Bluray costs maybe?) and they have pushed software emulation forward (originally planned for later).

  • RexRunti #100 5 years ago

    Beano said

    "phaydren: Don't expect the software emulator to take more than 10-20 MB on your harddrive... at most!

    It will not be an issue."

    Where did you pull this information? Can you provide a link?

  • dirigiblebill #101 5 years ago

    Ahhhh, a ps3 BC article. Tell you what- the next time one of these things comes up, I'm going to save everybody some energy by cut-and-pasting this thread into the new one.

    Sorted.

  • GamesConnoisseur #102 5 years ago

    Beano: Am waiting for your 'source' re US and Jap getting EE removed as well. I think if veriable would help with the debate re Euro getting shafted. However this would also mean until software emulation is 100 percent proven (damn tough) that the older EE inclusion model would be the more desired version even for the importers.

    WHO ll want to import ee removed USA/Jap PS3?! Bad enough we got it here and let Sony put up the list of BC now, it is a very reasonable demand which Microsoft did provide before launch.

  • Beano #103 5 years ago

    "Where did you pull this information? Can you provide a link?"

    Well it's common sence actually when you know a bit about emulators... and the BC emulator for Xbox 360 does not take more than a few MBs.

    But let's say for the argument's sake, that it uses 500MB on the HDD (which is won't by far) it will still not be an issue :)

  • Beano #104 5 years ago

    "Beano: Am waiting for your 'source' re US and Jap getting EE removed as well."

    I'll try to find it - belive it was on Kutaku, Joystiq or GameSpot.

    Anyway - I find it quite amusing that you people really are convinced that Sony are making an extra effort to annoy Europeans.
    Of course the US and JAP versions will be changed also... and soon!

    Sony want to save as much money as possible and whey really don't care which consumers will be annoyed by this - it really can't be a surprise by now!

    Sony are not shafting European consumer... thet are shafting ALL consumers ;)

  • enzima #105 5 years ago

    @ kangarootoo
    Definetely sarcastic, even though i´d like to see that happening...as i am 1,85 per 85 kg, i could crush the tiny ken kutaragi under my giant crab-like arms! (still sarcastic, if wondering...):p

  • 2099net #106 5 years ago

    The point is, I walk into HMV or whatever today, and they are promising me virtually 100% compatibility with PS2 games when I preorder. I assume at some point their European sales literature stated as much.

    Most retailers started a pre-ordering system before the change to the Euro PS3 spec was announced. Since it was "announced", Sony has done nothing to stop retailers from talking about full PS2 compatibility when placing pre-orders.

    Sony must have known, prior to the general PS3 pre-order floodgates being opened that they were "revising" the hardware, but don't seem to have cared enough to push that message to the retailers strongly.

    If indeed the PS3 does come with 1.5 preloaded and 1.6 is required as a download, there's going to be a lot of disappointed customers come March 23rd. And a big backlash - if Sony think the comments on internet forums are "unfair" wait until Joe Public finds his PS3 doesn't do what was promised "out of the box".

    And don't say non-connected users will have the update on games (a la PSP updates) - it won't be on any launch games if timing is to tight, and it probably won't be on any retail games for a month or two.

  • bioreit #107 5 years ago

    @ SeesThroughAll

    I can't find any info on the PSOne emulation in PS3, so you could very well be correct!

    Although I can't find anything which says that the PSOne emulation was only ever software, neither. All the comments from Sony peeps run along the lines of "PSOne and PS2 bakwards compatibility will now be managed via software and hardware solutions."

    Not very clear-cut :(

  • jebus #108 5 years ago

    @Beano
    Does the slim PS2 run PSone games thru software emulation?

    Just curious...

    No it does it by having a PS1 on a chip on the board - therefore through hardware. Same way the DS does GBA emulation.

  • m0thr4 #109 5 years ago

    "we expect over 1000 titles to be playable for PlayStation 2. Within that list is the vast majority of games you would want to play."

    Yeah, thanks for that Mr Harrison. You'll forgive me then for waiting until you've actually published that list before I decide whether or not I want your product.

  • SeesThroughAll #110 5 years ago

    All the comments from Sony peeps run along the lines of "PSOne and PS2 bakwards compatibility will now be managed via software and hardware solutions.

    This is the impression I have so far from how BC is going to work:

    PS1 = All software (For such basic tech, it ought to.)
    PS2 = Software (Cell emulates EE) + Hardware (GS stays in the board, probably not possible to emulate with the RSX)

    You're certainly right, they don't do such a good job at actually informing their costumers, do they?
    Sony, take note. Transparency would have taken you MUCH further.

  • bioreit #111 5 years ago

    "Sony, take note. Transparency would have taken you MUCH further."

    Amen.

  • jebus #112 5 years ago

    @zuljin
    Worse hardware yes, but they won't just give up after launch... More games will be supported over time. After all, when they release PS5, you don't really want to be paying for a PS2, PS3 and PS4 chip now do you? So it really was a matter of time, but nonetheless bad timing.


    BC over time is not what they promised or what the US or Japan already has is the point. They have virtually 100% BC because they effectivley have a PS2 on the motherboard.

    Well you pay for a PS1 chip in all PS2s and more to the point if they took the PS2 chip out of the PS3 why has this not been reflected in the price, which is already more expensive than anywhere else? That's what is pissing people off. I don't know why people are sticking up for them, they are clearly in the wrong.

  • m0thr4 #113 5 years ago

    @SeesThroughAll

    All PSOne titles may well be playable, but that doesn't mean they're 100% compatible. Look at Silent Hill for example:

    "Throughout gameplay, when the user’s character shoots an enemy, a medium pitched tone plays. "

    Frickin' great.

  • stepneg #114 5 years ago

    I don't think they are trying to make an extra effort to annoy us it's more that they don't care and know we will put up with it. What annoys me is saying why don't you all calm down yet giving no reason to? However you dress it up we are getting less for more money, if it wasn't the case then why not release the list of games and say there you go Europe clam down and look at all these games that will work. The only reason they haven't is because it's another crock and the list is as bare as Harrison's head, they will be hoping to just quietly slip it out over the launch so no one notices.

    We get stiffed by most company's and pay more for identical goods but paying more for less goes to far however they try and justify it. I want a PS3 and have no intention of using it to play PS2 games but I won't be be buying one until they drop the price.

  • Beano #115 5 years ago

    "No it does it by having a PS1 on a chip on the board - therefore through hardware. Same way the DS does GBA emulation."

    Thats my impression also ;)
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 14:58

  • Beano #116 5 years ago

    "The only reason they haven't is because it's another crock and the list is as bare as Harrison's head, they will be hoping to just quietly slip it out over the launch so no one notices."

    Not even Sony could be so naive... with all the press and main-stream attention req. BC, they should know that people are watching this... especially after reiterating the 1000+ title claim :)

  • a8a #117 5 years ago

    I'm sorry, but selling us an inferior product at a higher price *IS* something to be upset about. It's called exploitation.

  • zuljin #118 5 years ago

    @jebus
    "BC over time is not what they promised or what the US or Japan already has is the point. They have virtually 100% BC because they effectivley have a PS2 on the motherboard."
    Fair point.

    "Well you pay for a PS1 chip in all PS2s and more to the point if they took the PS2 chip out of the PS3 why has this not been reflected in the price, which is already more expensive than anywhere else? That's what is pissing people off. I don't know why people are sticking up for them, they are clearly in the wrong."

    Again, fair point, but you do understand that software is the way ahead, because you simply cannot keep putting in more and more chips in future consoles just to keep BC. The price doesn't change, because the software developed also needs to be paid for. Suddenly a new team of programmers works on compatibility, they kinda need to be paid too, despite you physically get one chip less. And again, blame retailers + taxes for differences in price from country to country. Look up "Samsung BD-P1000" on Amazon in UK and US for example. Price difference? £250 on a product for sale in UK at £530. By all means moan/whine/complain about the difference in price between UK and US, but at the right people.

  • stepneg #119 5 years ago

    Why not release it now then, at least a partial list thats to be updated on launch day. They would have saved all the bad press, and we wouldn't feel like were paying more for less?


  • Gurgeh #120 5 years ago

    It will be easy enough to find out come launch day anyway. Right now I'd guess that the German website has it right in that the launch BC list will be small *but* on day 1 there will be a download that will expand the BC list - or else Sony are asking for more trouble on the PR front

    [link url=http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,39029441,4928844 5,00.htm
    ]http://cr ave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,3902...[/link]

    "The PS3 will be so easy to get hold of on launch that GameSpot's Guy Cocker told us, "Right now, it's about as hard to get a PS3 for launch as it is an orange in California -- either Sony has poured units into Europe, or the demand's just not there." "

  • bioreit #121 5 years ago

    @ Zuljin

    You do realise that RRPs are set by manufacturers, right?

  • jonsaan #122 5 years ago

    Yeah, like anyone would want to play PS1 games on their shiny new PS3.

  • Steroyd #123 5 years ago

    Dude that's a PS3 without the emulation firwire!!!

    /gives up

    "No it does it by having a PS1 on a chip on the board - therefore through hardware. Same way the DS does GBA emulation."

    The PStwo did PSone emulation through software.

    The PS2 had the PSone chips in it though.

  • zuljin #124 5 years ago

    @bioreit
    I can't compare RRPs because I don't know the US ones, I admit I just go on the store price. The retailer doesn't have to adhere to the RRP anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that pretty much everything you buy from the US is dirtcheap, simply because retailers have smaller margins in the US, etc, etc. Again, PS3 ain't cheap, but the price difference between the US and UK should be expected.

    @SuperGamerMatt
    Don't really know why anyone would want to quote from the Inquirer, but anyways. Bear in mind the Inquirer was using 1.5 firmware. The reason the BC list isn't out yet is partly because the software BC is due in firmware 1.6.

  • SeesThroughAll #125 5 years ago

    If it where SotC or GoW or one of the MGS than at least we'd have faith that Sony could include some decent games in the back catalogue. But Eragon.....oh dear Sony.

    Note that those people tested those games on a PS3 running 1.50 firmware, not the day-one patch. The fact that one of those games managed to run at all is a bit surprising to be fair.

    I find it really strange that Sony wouldn't give some priority in it's BC list to first-party titles (GoW, SotC, Ico, etc.).
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/07 @ 16:33

  • spongebob #126 5 years ago

    Some people here are so desperate about the BC function that you'd think they'd be queueing outside any old video games store to get a PS2 right now. If you are so keen on playing the PS2 games, why don't get busy doing it right now.

    Oh, or are you complaining just because it's another point you can complain about. Another weapon to use in your sorry "my console will win, because it's better and does this thing better and because it's cheaper" war?

    ps. Wouldn't mind getting some Crabby Patties, that was a good call :)

  • zuljin #127 5 years ago

    @SuperGamerMatt
    The 1200 number is associated with 1.6 firmware, beyond that is anyones guess really.

    As for the inquirer, it's the IT equivalent of the Daily Sport in the UK. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't read it to keep up to date with current affairs. I would however look at it for other reasons :)

  • Les #128 5 years ago

    "and they have pushed software emulation forward (originally planned for later)."

    Not true. The PS2 emulator was behind schedule, that's why in effect a PS2 on a chip was included within the PS3.

    I'm totally fine with software emulation, as long as Sony makes an effort for 100% backwards compatibility. If they don't, they're idiots: one of the best things they brought to console gaming was backwards compatibility. But Phil isn't very clear on this, which makes me fear for the worst.

    "Some people here are so desperate about the BC function that you'd think they'd be queueing outside any old video games store to get a PS2 right now. If you are so keen on playing the PS2 games, why don't get busy doing it right now."

    There's little logic in your reasoning. BC makes sure your investment (in games) is not lost when you upgrade. And yeah, I know it's always possible to keep a PS2 by the side, but I and many other people, prefer to have as few consoles near the TV as possible.
    Edited by 2 at 14/03/07 @ 20:40

  • bioreit #129 5 years ago

    @ Zuljin

    But the manufacturer sets the RRP. This has nothing to do with retailers. If Sony set the RRP of the PS3 at £250 in the UK, then that is what retailers would sell it for.

    The manufacturers are constantly telling us reasons for price differences - localisation costs, import duties, transportation costs - not a single one of which has ever had anything to do with retailers.

    And their reasons are total bumpf, too.

    'Localisation costs'? There was me thinking it was multi-region....

    'Import duties'? So how come the 360 and Wii don't exhibit the same percentage price increase...

    'Transportation costs'? Again, Microsoft and Nintendo have the same distance to travel...

    Basically, Eruope has always and will always be forever screwed (by everyone, not just Sony) when it comes to price, for no other reason than they know that the people will suffer it.

    @ Steroyd

    The PS2 has the PSOne I/O Processor inside it, meaning that backwards compatibility is taken care of by HARDWARE.

    The SOFTWARE emulation is for improving graphics, loading times and making the few recalcitrant games finally play ball and work like they're supposed to.

    But the BC of the PSOne on PS2 is, in all important regards, HARDWARE.

    <a href='http://www.shift-f7.co.uk< /a>'>Shift-F7.co.uk</a>

  • zuljin #130 5 years ago

    @Bioreit
    Nope. Definition of RRP is recomended retail price. RRP of PS3 games 40 pounds. HMV charge mostly 40, but there are a few 50 games there too. 10 pounds profit straight to HMV. RRP doesn't mean anything if retailers don't adhere to it.

    "'Import duties'? So how come the 360 and Wii don't exhibit the same percentage price increase..."
    They do. Check amazon US and UK. 50 pounds on XBox 360, and XBox is retailing at half price of PS3, so as a percent that would be 100 pounds diff on PS3. Sounds bout right.

  • zabadee #131 5 years ago

    I wanna make it clear even though i'm still buyin the playstation 3 I am annoyed with Sony for a number of things:
    1. Europe waits the longest time for the console to be launched
    2. Europe pays the highest price
    3. Europe gets the dodgy Back wards compatibility
    This is unfair but its just the way things are however you have to keep in mind that it is a next-gen console so really backwards compatibility doesnt bother me because a PS2 game is best played on a PS2.

  • bioreit #132 5 years ago

    @ Zuljin

    So, half of 425 = 280?

    A-buh? Try again.

    Also, apparently there is no import duty on games consoles anyway.

    And in 2001 it was only 1.7%

    So let's try again, shall we?

    And the PS3 isn't even out in the UK yet, so HMV's pricing of some games at £50 will change the MOMENT it does launch in a week. They're just covering their bases in case there are any nasty surprises.

    I can't recall ever having seen a main chain actually adding money on to an RRP...