Hardware Test: Xbox 360 Elite Comments by Richard Leadbetter

"I've always thought this was an odd 'upgrade' to the original 360. It came too soon and wasn't upgraded anywhere near enough."

Microsoft products tend to come too soon (360, Zune, Vista). Now you know where they got the nickname Mr. Softie.

The feedback in forums is that the Elite is every bit as unreliable as the original 360.

@jonsaan: That's the first I've heard of that. Have seen a RROD elite but that doesn't mean much. That said, I still don't trust the reliability of the 360 which is why when I eventually get one I'll be getting it from a shop that will let me swap it out immediately if it ever dies.

@Les

""Secondly, Microsoft see the HD DVD add-on as very much an entry level solution, which is reflected in the price, and for those that require that high-end audiophile experience, they are well enough catered for with hardware players. This is from comments on the Avsforum by Amir who runs the VC1 team within Microsoft."

Which makes it useless as only av fanatics see any benefit in HD playback. "

Well, no. The difference in picture quality going from SD to HD is much more significant than the difference between high-bitrate compressed audio and lossless audio.

I wouldn't call myself an av fanatic, but I do like HD playback especially via my projector on a big screen, but I'm not complaining about the audio quality provided by the 360. It's certainly not useless by any means.

@Psychotext

PCWorld are the fellows for you then. My 360 went after a month or two (maybe three, I forget), so I took it back and they swapped it on the spot.

I don't normally like PCWorld, but I won't cut off my nose to spite my face. They price matched play.com for me, so hunt about the best price first and then trot off down there with a URL.

"... penetrating the disk drive and heating up your disk. The disk comes out hotter because it's a 12x drive ..."

Breaking news. Apple weigh in on the debate. Fair and balanced, or Americanization [sic]?

@kangarootoo: Sounds good, though I do hate PC World (used to work for them). I'm very surprised to see that they're now price matching online stores.

I traded my 30 in for a PS3 a month ago (I get bored easily), and it has to be said that the ps3 is so much the better 'machine' (note the machine part people). It always amazed me that people put up with the noise, and that reviewers hardly mention it, as it used to drive me crazy (though my second one seemed quieter) when playing things like Oblivion. Great games though, if a little too focused on one market (barring the amazing Viva Pinata of course).

@ bivith

I was primarily commenting on the HD-DVD add-on, but that might have been unclear. The quality of the player is not that good, probably won't satisfy av fanatics who are the only ones to spot the difference between an upscaled regular DVD and a HD one.

Even if I actually had a barge pole....

ah friggit. i promised myself i wouldn't get involved in yet another time consuming pointless internet "debate".

I guess I'd buy this if I had the money. Now it looks like it really lives up to it's name; it's something the elite people with more money and better monitors/HDTVs should get. I think I'll buy a regular X360 after all.

I think you've got your I and Ps the wrong way around ;)


The introduction of HDMI adds another 1080p-capable output, and one that works with far more displays than VGA. HDMI also allows for 1080i digital output - something the 'classic' 360 has yet to offer and a signal that in theory offers the optimum quality level that's compatible with all displays featuring the "HD Ready" badge.

I find it hilarious the amount of jibes Sony get for the PS3 price, despite the Elite being close to the cost, failing to make key improvements in the build quality, and not even coming with the HDDVD drive. I really don't care for either company at the moment but there is no denying the production values of the PS3 are light years ahead of the 360.

I can't believe this got such a positive conclusion after the review basically said to me: "There is very little new, and you'd have to have more money than sense to shell out for this if you already have a 360"

i've always wondered about the impact of using the incorrect resolution on your display. i hate it on my pc, so is it the same on an xbox with an lcd? the demo pods with the samsung screens certainly look pretty crap to me.

At the moment i'm using a 14" tv, so am wondering whether investing in a nice lcd that uses a completely different native resolution to 720p is such a good idea... Any advice anyone?

Microsoft,
Microsoft Campus,
Thames Valley Park,
Reading,
Berkshire,
RG6 1WG

20th June 2007

Re: XBox 360 Elite

Dear Sir/Madam,


DO NOT WANT.




Yours sincerly,


J. Aded

"...plagues PS3's digital output"???
Wha-? No problems here with my PS3 and 1080p Samsung screen. What problems are these??? Please explain Eurogamer, maybe we can help you out.

7 pages? golly

Nice article. I'm hoping to get a 360 in the next month or two and I'm interested in this. Unless it's about 30 quid more, I won't bother tho. So... looks like I'll be getting a whitey then.

Those screenshots are unbelievable tho. Bugger all difference whatsoever.

Anyone who can't see a difference in the comparison shots should open an image processing tool, separate the different images and then look at the individual histograms. You'll see that the HDMI captures have far higher dynamics than their analogue counterparts, it's a world of a difference.

However... if you can't see a difference with your own eyes, then the elite has probably very little added *value* for you.

+1 to the 'DO NOT WANT'

There are subtle differences. I just can't believe people spends thousands of pounds tuning and tweaking their sets and get ants in their pants over such minor alterations. I suppose it's the same people who insist on drinking Volvic over Evian or something.

Nnnrgghhh.

@frombrosis - "...plagues PS3's digital output"???
"Wha-? No problems here with my PS3 and 1080p Samsung screen. What problems are these??? Please explain Eurogamer, maybe we can help you out."

EG are referring to the HDCP copy protection which means that you cannot play PS3 games with HDMI on HDTVs or monitors that are not HDCP-compliant. They do actually state this in the article actually when they say that only the HD-DVD movies invoke HDCP which means that you can at least play 360 games on older non-HDCP-compliant HDTVs and monitors (via an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor).

Jaded, Wonga: Thanks. I really was wondering if you guys were wanting it or not. now I can sleep again.

Isn't it quite obvious that the Elite is NOT a product intended for Europe? In the US, where the Video Marketplace is growing, there is a definite use for a larger HD so why not use the opportunity to upgrade a few other stuff in it at the same time.

Unbless you are downloading every possible demo and arcade game and keeping them forever on your 360 I do not see any real need for a larger HD yet here in Europe. So of course the added cost for the larger HD isn't really making sense to us Europeans. Didn't MS also say the Elite was a "limited" thingy? Or am my memory incorrect in that regards?

As for HDMI - hopefully we will see it being introduced even for Premiums later this year (is there really any reason why they wouldn't do it? Price maybe?)

As for reliabliity. I'm surpised that they haven't figured out the problem better yet. Although all the talka bout the extra fan, I wonder if that is helping. At the same time, and not trying to diminish the issue, me and at least 3 other friends that got 360's either at launch or right after still have had no issues so I don't feel the "every 360 will break" dooms day predictions are correct either. To many do break but it is far from all or IMHO the majority.

I was a bit tempted with the Elite (if it would be released here) But I probably will wait for a 65 nm model instead as I really do not need HDMI over component right now. Got a PS3, a AppleTV, a HTPC and a HD-digital receiver all fighting for the 3 HDMI connectors on my TV anyway and the image quality on my 40" 1080p Samsung still is very good.

Now I bloody well want one! Thanks for nothing Leadbetter!!!'

/shakes fist

@Darren

HDCP can only protect movies, and it does not affect games in any way.
Even in movies, the publisher has to specifically activate HDCP for it to work (when active, you can't play HD content unless both the player and the display are HDCP compliant).

Also, European standards require TVs to be HDCP compliant - otherwise they can't be called "HD ready".

As far as I know no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies with HDCP enabled have been released yet.

"So go to all the time and effort of grabing shots from the 360's framebuffer and then using a video capture device to grab the same shot from the HDMI output.. even go to the trouble of doing the same with a PS3... fantasic work .. But why on earth then present it at 379 pixels wide"

+1,352

"So go to all the time and effort of grabing shots from the 360's framebuffer and then using a video capture device to grab the same shot from the HDMI output.. even go to the trouble of doing the same with a PS3... fantasic work .. But why on earth then present it at 379 pixels wide"

+1,352

So you two haven't find the full size images yet then? Follow the links in the article rather than clicking on the images, or go here:

Full size grabs

I now know two people with Elites who have had to send them back after freezing issues. The biggest problem remains - why buy it when you know it's going to break anyway? I'm 'only' on my 5th of the old type.

OK

HDCP can only protect movies, and it does not affect games in any way.
Even in movies, the publisher has to specifically activate HDCP for it to work (when active, you can't play HD content unless both the player and the display are HDCP compliant).

Also, European standards require TVs to be HDCP compliant - otherwise they can't be called "HD ready".

As far as I know no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies with HDCP enabled have been released yet.

You're getting confused betweet HDCP which is active on pretty much all HDMI devices and the ICT (image constaint token) which is a software addition to HD movies on both HD DVD and Blu-ray and one that hasn't been activated yet on any title, primarily because it downscales analogue output to 960x540.

HDCP most certainly does affect PS3 games in that the HDMI output of the PS3 is active at all times. Development PS3s have the option to turn it off, which is how we take the grabs without resorting to the technical trickery we used to get the HD DVD 360 shots.

It feels as if Microsoft are giving the ball to Sony with this "upgrade". When the Elite is finally released in Europe, wouldn't that be the perfect time for Sony to roll out the price cuts for the Playstation 3 and drum up the differences between the machines?

Another thing that Sony should do is allow retailers to fit any hard drive they wish in the Playstation 3. Sony sells them the Playstation 3 without a hard drive and then it's up to the retailer to fit it with a 40, 60, 80, 10, 120, 160 GB hard drive of choice. That could sweeten the deal a whole lot, especially as it might incite a small price war :P

Sony sells them the Playstation 3 without a hard drive and then it's up to the retailer to fit it with a 40, 60, 80, 10, 120, 160 GB hard drive of choice. That could sweeten the deal a whole lot, especially as it might incite a small price war :P

It would also turn it into a freaking PC.

Bad idea.

You do realize that you can already fit your PS3 with any 2.5" SATA hard drive of your choice, right? According to that logic, the PS3 is already a PC.

I wonder if this 120 GB HDD finally means my Xbox 360 can store game patches PERMANENTLY instead of forcing me to download them AGAIN after I've played X number of games? /rolls eyes

Yes, I know that. It's one of the advantages it has over the 360.
I meant, retailers would be selling it like a PC.

Build-your-console and all that. Doesn't sound natural to me.

The fanboynoise when it comes to the two current leading console models is getting very tiring (sorry, I like Nintendo, but I view the Wii as mostly a gimmick, let's not do that discussion).

Buy the one or the other, or both based upon the games, and the delivery!

I have no illusions whatsoever regarding the relative eminence or shiteness of Microsoft or Sony. Anthropomorphosizing large multinational firms is daft.

However, atm the 360 is a way, waaay better deal giving the enormous price difference (here in Norway the fullversion PS3 is double the price of a regular fullversion 360). Also, exclusive, actually interesting games on the PS3 are far between - for now.

The 360 has Gears, Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Call of Duty 2, Guitar Hero, Dead or Alive series, the Tomb Raider stuff, more Tom Clancy's than you can shake a stick at, SEGA's catalog (Virtua Fighter), and now it will be getting GTA IV soon with potentially more stuff downloadable than the PS3..

Big online games like Age of Conan have also been confirmed.

The connectivity has been good on the 360, and upgrades have steadily brought a better picture through the various connections I have used (RGB, component, and now VGA).

The only ONLY thing, that REALLY IRKS ME with the 360 is the noise the DVD drive makes, and I am quite disappointed that the ELITE does not remedy this.

Still. I have somehow managed to grow accustomed to the sound, and am not hearing it as much as I did earlier.

The 360 is a good machine though, I have had no hardware faults either, though I sympathize with all of you that have had, sounds like quite a lot of you.

The day the PS3 gets a reasonable price AND some good exclusive titles I will buy that too, and enjoy it. At the current moment in time it is just incredibly silly paying that extra money for a silent running machine that does not play Gears of War or Dead Rising or does not have Live.

And that just about sums it up really.

Sony is not your friend, neither is Microsoft!

"(sorry, I like Nintendo, but I view the Wii as mostly a gimmick, let's not do that discussion). "

Maybe don't bring it up then?!

"The 360 is a good machine though, I have had no hardware faults either, though I sympathize with all of you that have had, sounds like quite a lot of you. "

Most people who say that end up seeing the RRoD the following week. Don't bring yourself bad luck ;)

I can get all the same pixel output options through a PC monitor with my current 360 so whats the beef??? Has this not been tried by these guys.???

Still waiting for the 360 that fixes the well-documented cooling issues before I buy one. Nice article lets me know I should still wait.

@biker_bob

See, Bob, I got a PS2, of course. It's a brilliant machine with TONS of great games. And for that reason I sold off my old version of it recently to a mate and bought a slim new model.

I would love the potentially upscaling functions of the PS3 to do wonders for the best PS2 games, but then again, I've heard a lot of noise about flawed backward compatibility, at least with the PS3 we've got here in Europe..

And games? Resistance: Fall of Man - you mean? Sorry, not sold yet. But I may be one day.

I wish there was more public demonstration of the system endemic problems, especially on tv.

How many parents buy the machine without actually knowing all its failures?

biker_bob, why would anyone fork out £425 to play 100s of PS2 games? Surely buying a £50 pre-owned PS2 would be better :/
Face facts, the PS3 has a piss poor line up of games at the moment, and it doesn't really look like it'll improve that much before 2008. (When compared to the 360's line up anyway)
You have very few exciting games, and 360 owners have to put up with the fact that their console could explode at any second.

The 360 noise levels are quite odd. I thought I had the noisiest model but then I heard the 360 of a mate of mine and it was a fucking storm compared to mine. Very strange that they are so noisy and that it variates so much.

Oh and eg? If you put up comparison shots, make them large enough for people to see because these are so tiny you can't see shit in them.

"Blu-Ray is outselling HD-Dvd by 2 to 1
The future of HD-Dvd isn't looking too bright"

Wii is outselling PS3 by 4-1
The future of HD gaming isn't looking too bright.

Couldn't resist. =)

Enlarge your screenshots

@biker_bob

Have to agree with the magpie, bob. The 360 is far and away the better machine in the only way that matters...games - both quantity and quality. If the elite can make it better, awesome.

Speaking as someone who dropped a pile of cash on cables trying to get my PS3 to output via hdmi onto my HDTV (non-HDCP-enabled, I later discovered, despite the manual's claims), the fact that the elite has such a varied video output selection is a godsend.

And bob, I love my piano-black PS3, but its games library is emptier than the Sahara desert. Truth is, I've only used it for PS2 games (Resistance is disappointing, and the multi-platform games are generally better on 360). I hope that this will change soon.

I want an HD drive included in this bundle and some more reliability to tempt me.

I bet this costs £380.00 or so when it hits!

Not enought improvements in this version for me I'm afraid!

Ah yes, Lanczos resizing.