Halo 3 does USD 170 million sales in 24 hours

By Tom Bramwell Published 27 September, 2007

Shane Kim has kittens.

Microsoft has declared that Halo 3 enjoyed the "largest entertainment launch in history", doing USD 170 million in sales in USA alone in its first 24 hours.

According to figures Microsoft put in its press release that we're too bored to actually research, that would put it ahead of cinematic releases like the execrable Spider-Man 3 and novels like Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. And the Meg White sex tape.

"Halo 3 has become a pop-culture phenomenon," said Shane 'Soundbite' Kim, corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios.

"Not only is Halo 3 setting sales records, it's also redefining entertainment," he added, worryingly. (An emergency meeting of the Eurogamer Word Council declared that until the definition of entertainment was sorted out again we would draft a suitable replacement in all future instances where it might be used.)

"Within the first 20 hours alone," Soundbite continued, "we've seen more than a million Xbox Live members come online to play Halo 3 - that makes September 25 the most active Xbox Live gaming day in history."

"Halo 3 is a genuine badger phenomenon and our customers have responded very enthusiastically to the release," Jim Hamburger of US retailer Best Buy gushed in support.

So, where were you on the most active and badgering Xbox Live gaming day in history? We were playing Ridge Racer 6 because we're so counter-cultural.

But back to Halo. By doing USD 170 million in sales, Halo 3 puts Halo 2's USD 125 million in 24 hours back in November 2004 to shame. What's more, only 1.5 million pre-ordered Halo 2, but 1.7 million got in there pre-release for the third game.

Presumably it will be quite successful then. Microsoft has previously said that Halo 2 sold more than 6.5 million copies worldwide (and you can bet it's sold a few more since June 2006 when that info first popped up). How many will Halo 3 sell?

And, more importantly, will it be able to hold off the challenge of multiplatform extravaganza Ratatouille in next Monday's UK badger sales charts? Try and get out of bed again one day to find out.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (137) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • aldo_14 #1 4 years ago

    It's not really fair to compare money-in-$ between games and other - cheaper - forms of media, really, though. Especially not with super-expensive special editions.

  • DUFFMAN5 #2 4 years ago

    I wonder what figures GTA will reach ?

  • LeD #3 4 years ago

    I think the movie project will be back on track, like, tomorrow, with figures like this.

  • Charroux #4 4 years ago

    "Halo 3 has become a pop-culture phenomenon"

    Utter, utter bollocks.

    Halo is not pop-culture - ask any random member of the public who Master Chief is and the chances are you'll get a blank stare.

    American Idol / X Factor / Big Brother are pop culture phenomenons. Halo ain't.

  • Machiavel #5 4 years ago

    Meg White sex tape? I picked the wrong entertainment last night then :(

  • mkreku #6 4 years ago

    I wonder what the sales figures are for Japan? :p

  • Machiavel #7 4 years ago

    and what the hell's a 'badger phenomenon' and do they mean stink badgers or ferrets?

  • rashes #8 4 years ago

    It was weird turning on the xbox last night... 9/10 people online on my friends list were playing Halo 3.
    Thats like the early 360 days when there were only a few games.

  • Sebo #9 4 years ago

    @aldo14

    wrong

    @charroux

    wrong

    .........................

    Also it's totally fair to compare, people have spent more money on halo than harry potter. Great.

    And charroux, ask random members of the public to name a American Idol / X Factor / Big Brother contest, they most likely can't, so using Masterchief is wrong.

    I'd reckon most people know Halo is a game, although I would say Mario and Sonic are both far more pop culture than Halo is.

  • Charroux #10 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    Gareth Gates, Will Young, Jade bleedin' Goody?

    EDIT: hmm, might be Pop Idol rather than X Factor - I have no idea, I've never watched either. Which makes my point even more valid ;)
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 08:46

  • GitSomE_UK #11 4 years ago

    Halo 3 is a genuine badger phenomenon

    WTF does this mean? This idiot had the bullshit generator turned to maximum.

    Does he mean black and white creature that's a menace to farmers or the bossy, buxom failed Apprentice contestant from last year?

    Idiots!

  • Charroux #12 4 years ago

    After googling 'badger phenomenon", I think he might be referring to the badger badger badger animation that was briefly popular about 3 years back :/

  • CreepinJesus #13 4 years ago

    I haven't got it yet :) Aren't I the rebel.

  • t8yman #14 4 years ago

    just downloading the meg white sex tape, didnt know anything about it till this morning. thanks eg.

  • oldfruit #15 4 years ago

    Ridge Racer 6. You guys & girls bored of Sega Rally already?

  • aldo_14 #16 4 years ago

    Also it's totally fair to compare, people have spent more money on halo than harry potter. Great.

    Fair how? It's apples versus oranges; a rought hand-wavy calculation at (a generous methinks) $50 each gives 3.4m, which if it were movies (at $5 a ticket) would be something like $17m. For a comparison, the record US opening (weekend, so I guess divvy by about 2?) gross for a movie was SpiderMan 2 at $150m or so (30m tickets-ish?).

    And that's not even considering that the potential sales of Halo 3 - or any game - are limited by the install base of the platform (which itself is determined by the games available), whereas movie tickets - or books, or even DVDs and CDs - are more ubiquitously available. And then you have to add in the fact that some things aren't available continuously (again, movies - as they only show at set times) opposed to constantly in-the-shops (especially with midnight openings for launch days) or pre-ordered (i.e. possibly like having several days or weeks shopping crammed into the pre-order period)....and then ignoring the other revenue streams of course, which are vastly multifarious (merchandising, movies - for books, books - for movies, DVDs - where the real movie money is nowadays methinks) and generally better developed for non games media...

    There's so many different factors that to take gross sales (not profit per se) as being larger for a more expensive (yet also limited in how many can feasibly be sold - what if there were 20m 360s instead of 10-12m?) product on a single day as a serious indicator of a change in entertainment is daft.

    Useful marketing hyperbole, yeah, but as actually showing some sort of seismic change in mass-media?

    EDIT; and you're not the misfiring former Rangers-now-Valenciennes striker Sebo, are you? :o!
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 09:00

  • Kilters #17 4 years ago

    "What's more, only 1.5 million pre-ordered Halo 2, but 1.7 million got in there pre-release for the third game."

    Spot the typo. tut tut.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #18 4 years ago

    Mmmmm statistics!! Taste like chicken :oD

  • DanWhitehead #19 4 years ago

    Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was purchased by 11 million people in its first day on release, which is almost double what Halo 2 sold in its first year. Halo 3 is a great game, but this sort of statistical badgering does the games industry no favours.

  • Sebo #20 4 years ago

    @charroux

    Think your lack of knowledge of those shows makes it less valid to refer to them as being pop culture. Oasis were pop culture, but your average joe couldn't have named the entire band. Halo is pop culture, whether people know master chief or not.

    @aldo14

    You can use that reasoning all you like to convince yourself, but at the end of the day it looks like Halo made more money than Harry Potter or the big movies.

    I could argue that if Halo cost the same as a movie it would have made even more because more people would have been able to afford it, and I could argue that if Harry Potter or your average movie cost £40 then they wouldn't sell anywhere near as many.

    But what the focus is on is how much money the product made on it's opening day, and Halo looks to have won that. It's a totally fair comparison.

    And I'm not misfiring, I scored against Chelsea.

  • Sebo #21 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    Money makes the world go round. Nobody is talking sales. They are talking money. Halo made more money it seems. Why, as a gamer, do you feel the need to muddy that?

  • penhalion #22 4 years ago

    @aldo_14

    To put it into some perspective. There are some 100 million PS2 out there. By your reconning that makes it on a par with DVD availability. Now nothing on that console has ever launched to a 170 million dollar first day. Not even any of the final fantasy games. So for Halo to do it with an installed base of just 12 million. I think it's safe to say that the tide is turned well and truly in favour of games over films.

  • Mr.Fahrenheit #23 4 years ago

    Meg White sex tape?

  • DanWhitehead #24 4 years ago

    Money makes the world go round. Nobody is talking sales. They are talking money.

    No, they're talking about Halo as "pop culture phenomena". Halo made a lot of money in one day, but it also costs a lot more money to purchase than a movie ticket, DVD or book. Therefore comparing Halo to Harry Potter or Spider-Man in these terms is lunacy. The only way to gauge the popularity of a property is by how many it sells, not how much they sell for, and by that yardstick Halo is nowhere close to Harry Potter. Eleven million people bought the latest Harry Potter book in 24 hours. That's a phenomenon. Halo 2 sold half that in one year, which makes it a gaming phenomenon but also illustrates how far outside the mainstream gaming really is. At least in terms of franchise awareness.

    Halo is a hugely successful gaming franchise, but it's still very much restricted to people who play games. Everyone knows who Harry Potter and Spider-Man are, regardless of whether they actually read the books or watch the movies. Kids. Old people. Parents.

    Lara Croft, Mario and Sonic are all closer to being mainstream gaming icons than Master Chief.

    Halo made more money it seems. Why, as a gamer, do you feel the need to muddy that?

    Why, as a gamer, do you feel the need to bolster dubious number-crunching to validate your hobby? This sort of half-baked comparison doesn't validate gaming as the new king of all media, it just makes gaming look like the desperate half-cousin to other forms of entertainment.

    I'm not "muddying" anything - Halo 3 is a fine game, and we should all be happy with that. I'm just pointing out that while these figures make for a nifty press release, they mean bugger all in the wider entertainment industry where they have entire departments of accountants who know what the figures really mean.

  • YoJimbo #25 4 years ago

    It is a bit gutting to see that if you hugely overhype a smelly turd...it will unfortunately sell :(

    Aint worth the dodgy, floored design of the box it came in!!

  • Charroux #26 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    Halo is barely pop culture (a few news items do not pop culture make), and is certainly not a "pop culture phenomenon", as stated in the article.

    Asking the hypothetical person in the street what Halo 3 is, you'll get maybe 90% haven't a clue, 8% "it's a computer game" (most of them will probably say it's on PlayStation ;), and maybe 2% will have more detailed knowledge.

    Ask if they've heard about Pop Idol or Harry Potter. Most people will know more than "it's a TV show", or 'he's a character in a book/film".

    Seriously, there's no comparison.

  • Razz #27 4 years ago

    Halo has definitely become a populist gamer franchise.

    Especially the the third and final chapter. Even my non-gaming mates are talking about it.

  • DanWhitehead #28 4 years ago

    @penhalion

    I think it's safe to say that the tide is turned well and truly in favour of games over films.

    Absolute nonsense. The Spider-Man movies have grossed more than any game series ever made. And that's just in their theatrical run. Then there's DVD sales. And all those spin-offs. Toys. Costumes. Lunchboxes. T-shirts. The only people dressing up as Master Chief are cosplayers. You can buy Spidey outfits in Woolworths. And that's not to mention the cultural penetration that movies have. Games don't have a Brad Pitt, or even a Jessica Alba.

    The idea that one weekend of beefy sales for one game suddenly makes videogames more successful and important than an artform that has dominated entertainment and culture for almost 100 years is frankly embarassing.

    Play the games. Enjoy the games. Just don't try and turn them into something they're not.

  • lennon #29 4 years ago

    @ Charroux - Depends on whether you are refering to Master Chief or Halo. I think if you spoke to a lot of people about Halo then they would have a good idea of what it is. Hell my mum even phoned me yesterday to ask if I had seen it on the news. Ask her who Master Chief is agreed she probably wouldnt know.

    However my other half watched the whole of the last series of X factor last year with me in the room (headphones on and only watching the dumb arses that think their good) now I could tell you what x factor is but I havent got a clue who won it.

  • ZeroAX #30 4 years ago

    how is it a phenomenon when 50% of 360 owners bought it for this game?


    [link url=http ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._3
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario...[/link]


    that game sold 18 mil copies.

    and if we count bundled games you know how many people bought nes and game boy for super mario bros and tetris?

    those were pop culture phenomenons. not halo. halo is like half life. a great game that every gamer knows.

  • DanWhitehead #31 4 years ago

    It's also worth pointing out that, for all the hoo-hah surrounding its record breaking launch, Halo 2 wasn't even the best-selling game of 2004.

  • CannonAnBall #32 4 years ago

    I don't know why people can't just look at the fuckin sales figures and just say well done for once. The sales figures are impressive. I just don't know why some people have to cry about this type of article everytime one appears.

    A marketing department or whoever will always bull something up even more so if it does really well as is the case with Halo 3. Tell me a company who wouldn't.


    'American Idol / X Factor / Big Brother are pop culture phenomenons.'
    - all sh*te as well!!

  • Sebo #33 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    "Halo made a lot of money in one day, but it also costs a lot more money to purchase than a movie ticket, DVD or book. Therefore comparing Halo to Harry Potter or Spider-Man in these terms is lunacy."

    It really isn't. People spent more money on Halo in one day than Harry Potter or Spiderman.

    I've already said I think Mario and Sonic are more recognisable to your average joe. So yes, phenomonon, is stretching it. But I also think its very fair to say that most people know what Halo is. They may not know a lot about it, just like you know sod all about x factor, but they know Halo 3 is a game, that makes it pop culture. Gaming is pop culture.

    And there will come a time when gaming is more profitable than movies and music.

  • DanWhitehead #34 4 years ago

    I don't know why people can't just look at the fuckin sales figures and just say well done for once. The sales figures are impressive. I just don't know why some people have to cry about this type of article everytime one appears.

    Because I honestly think this sort of talk reflects badly on the games industry.

  • robg #35 4 years ago

    Guys this is not pop culture at all, it's just all the 360 owners grasping at the hype. I also want a 360 and will similarly grasp at the hype at get Halo 3 when I get one :) - but let's not confuse all the 360 owners buying the same game with "the tide turning", that's just ridiculous.

    And as for "redefining entertainment" - that's the last thing Halo has ever done. It's always followed the Microsoft product pattern*: look at something good, and make their own slightly polished version. It's good fun, I loved the first 2 Halos on legendary co-op, but it's the Quakes and Half-Lifes that did the defining. Halos always just copied and simplified.

    * anyone who points out that it wasn't originally a Microsoft-funded game is clearly missing the point; I said it follows that pattern. Now continue reading, and think harder in future.

  • CannonAnBall #36 4 years ago

    Reflects badly on the games industry?

    Who outside the games industry gives a shit?

    Only nerds actually give a shit.

    I looked at the article and thought, 'wow, thats a job well done then'. Came to look at the comments and people are upset. Why the fuck be upset by what some market dept. or company exec. has to say??

    Halo 3 has clearly upset some people. Thats very clear!

  • lambtron #37 4 years ago

    "Eleven million people bought the latest Harry Potter book in 24 hours. That's a phenomenon. Halo 2 sold half that in one year, which makes it a gaming phenomenon but also illustrates how far outside the mainstream gaming really is. At least in terms of franchise awareness. "

    I think you're missing a rather obvious point here. I HIGHLY doubt they would have bought the latest Harry Potter had it cost 45 quid. You can't buy games for the price of a book - everyone knows that and its almost certainly a barrier to gaming being more mainstream. But still the bottom line is people spent that money, I don't really care if Halo is a pop culture phenomenon or not but I don't see why the comparison is not valid. Whether it is:

    Large number of people X small amount of money
    Small number of people X large amount of money

    It still equals the same bottom line - a shit load of money and that's all big corps really care about.

  • Sebo #38 4 years ago

    @robg

    Okay, so he wants to put as a positive a spin on this success as he can. Is that really such a bad thing?

    @danwhitehead

    Why is any game making USD170million in one day reflecting bad on this industry? It shows people are interested in it, big time.

  • DjFlex52 #39 4 years ago

    "Because I honestly think this sort of talk reflects badly on the games industry."

    Does reporting record high sales on Harry Potter books reflects badly on the book industry?
    No!

  • lambtron #40 4 years ago

    "and what the hell's a 'badger phenomenon' and do they mean stink badgers or ferrets?"

    Maybe it has a large following in the Badger community :p

  • DanWhitehead #41 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    It really isn't. People spent more money on Halo in one day than Harry Potter or Spiderman.

    But Halo 3 costs many times more than a book or movie ticket, therefore that figure is not a true representation of the property's popularity. Once again: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was purchased by twice as many people in one day than bought Halo 2 in a year. That puts it in perspective.

    They did the same thing with Halo 2, and it was embarassing then. And, as I said, Halo 2 wasn't even the biggest game of 2004 so lets not get carried away with what the first day sales of a massively hyped product to a captive audience mean about the future of entertainment.

    But I also think its very fair to say that most people know what Halo is. They may not know a lot about it, just like you know sod all about x factor, but they know Halo 3 is a game, that makes it pop culture. Gaming is pop culture.

    I'm not saying games aren't pop culture, just that announcements like this only serve to prove that Halo is very successful within its own little ghetto of entertainment. Anecdotal assumptions about what "most people" know are meaningless. There's a world of difference between people having a vague awareness of something called Halo being on the news, and that its some sort of computer game, and the sort of immense cultural saturation that something like Harry Potter generates. One robust weekend of sales does not put Halo in a position to compete with a behemoth like that.

    And there will come a time when gaming is more profitable than movies and music.

    Based on what? More profitable? Microsoft aren't talking profit, they're talking gross sales. Huge difference.

    Or more popular? And by what yardstick?

    Games are becoming more accepted, and that's simply because we now have generations of parents and even grandparents who have grown up in the videogame era. Games are familiar, they're not a novelty anymore, and that's good. Games are accepted as part of the entertainment mix. Let's be happy with that and see what happens next.

  • Sebo #42 4 years ago

    I reckon that anyone that doesn't see these Halo 3 sales as anything other than good news for the games industry has to be a raging Sony fanboy.

  • nickthegun #43 4 years ago

    Mr.Fahrenheit
    27-Sep-07 09:18:01

    Meg White sex tape?


    Bears repeating: Meg White sex tape?

  • Sebo #44 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    "But Halo 3 costs many times more than a book or movie ticket, therefore that figure is not a true representation of the property's popularity. Once again: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was purchased by twice as many people in one day than bought Halo 2 in a year. That puts it in perspective."

    But Harry Potter books cost many times less than a game, therefore that figure is not true representation of the property's popularity.
    Once again: the harry potter game was purchased by infinitely less people than Halo 3 in a year. That puts it in perspective.

    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 09:55

  • RexRunti #45 4 years ago

    Halo 3 has become a "pop-culture phenomenon". Just because other pop-culture phenomenons exist such as Big Brother, Harry Potter and Star Wars it doesn't mean Halo can't be.

    @Dan Whitehead

    <em>The only people dressing up as Master Chief are cosplayers</em>

    As opposed to the millions of people who dress like Frodo Baggins on the way to work?

    <em>The Spider-Man movies have grossed more than any game series ever made... [lots of examples of Spidey spin offs]</em>

    This argument has one major flaw. Spider-Man is first and foremost a comic (sorry, graphic novel) not a movie.

    <em>Games don't have a Brad Pitt, or even a Jessica Alba.</em>

    Niether do novels.

    <em>The idea that one weekend of beefy sales for one game suddenly makes videogames more successful and important than an artform that has dominated entertainment and culture for almost 100 years is frankly embarassing.</em>

    We live in a society which rates money over anything else. The fact is money-wise the games industry is already bigger than the film industry which in turn is much bigger than the litrature industry. As artforms all are equally valid and are just as likely to influence each other.

  • LHH #46 4 years ago

    Meg White sex tape?

    It's not all that. Seems to be lacking brightness and close up shots.

  • DanWhitehead #47 4 years ago

    Who outside the games industry gives a shit?

    Only nerds actually give a shit.

    Blinkered thinking.

    Microsoft didn't make this announcement for nerds. They made it for the business world. And while the amount of money made is impressive, the business world isn't going to be fooled by talk that $170m in sales of one $50 product warrants comparison to major intellectual properties with global reach, enormous fanbases and billions in auxiliary products.

    So to clarify: I don't have a problem with Microsoft blowing their horn about how much money Halo 3 has made. I do, however, find it embarrassing that they keep trying to cram Halo into the same bracket as Harry Potter and Spider-Man. Halo 3 is a hugely successful videogame. But that's all it is. Calling it a pop culture phenomenon, or that this one weekend of sales means that the movie industry is now secondary to games, is the worst kind of hyperbole.

  • aldo_14 #48 4 years ago



    You can use that reasoning all you like to convince yourself, but at the end of the day it looks like Halo made more money than Harry Potter or the big movies.

    I could argue that if Halo cost the same as a movie it would have made even more because more people would have been able to afford it, and I could argue that if Harry Potter or your average movie cost £40 then they wouldn't sell anywhere near as many.

    But what the focus is on is how much money the product made on it's opening day, and Halo looks to have won that. It's a totally fair comparison.

    It made more release day gross (not profit, albeit), but is that any sort of indicator that it's redifing mass entertainment? Certainly not the mass part in pure numerical terms; perhaps it's an indicator that more people are playing games than before (perhaps), or perhaps merely an indicator that a lot of people bought a 360 for Halo 3.

    But I can't see how the amount of money took in on day one indicates anything other than relative popularity against like-for-like, i.e. other games, and even then other games (in fact, probably any other games in history) haven't had the incredible level of hype and marketing heft Halo 3 has enjoyed in the US.

    Plus, as a comparison, Spiderman 2 had a total box office of $783m; equivalent to something like 120-150m tickets (very hand wavy) methinks, or 19.75m games. The highest selling game of the last gen was, I think, GTA San Andreas at 15m (which is more money but less people - also, note that AFAIK the Spiderman 2 amount doesn't include stuff like DVD rental and sale or merchandising, which is surely far more than GTA or any game can currently manage).

    In any case, methinks if Halo 3 was redifining entertainment, someone at the BBC would have realised they were showing Killzone in yesterdays news story....

    And I'm not misfiring, I scored against Chelsea.

    Yeah, with a deflected goal. tut-tut. Boyd is far better.



    To put it into some perspective. There are some 100 million PS2 out there. By your reconning that makes it on a par with DVD availability. Now nothing on that console has ever launched to a 170 million dollar first day. Not even any of the final fantasy games. So for Halo to do it with an installed base of just 12 million. I think it's safe to say that the tide is turned well and truly in favour of games over films.

    Well, it's a nitpick but AFAIK there are 100m PS2s sold - I'm not sure how many still work and are used, although I'd expect it's a large percentage. But I'm not sure how this shows any turning of the tide beyond a bit of a widening of the market for games (not enough, I'd wager, to actually go close to movies), as Halo 2 sold a similar amount ($125m, but bearing in mind IIRC it didn't have any $130 legendary edition) on a similar sized userbase - and I think it's generally regarded that a lot of 360 owners bought the console for said game, so you'd expect a hefty percentage to own it.

    Phew, my fingers are tired.

  • Sebo #49 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    "So to clarify: I don't have a problem with Microsoft blowing their horn about how much money Halo 3 has made. I do, however, find it embarrassing that they keep trying to cram Halo into the same bracket as Harry Potter and Spider-Man. Halo 3 is a hugely successful videogame. But that's all it is. Calling it a pop culture phenomenon, or that this one weekend of sales means that the movie industry is now secondary to games, is the worst kind of hyperbole."

    Agreed with your first line of that post, that it was made for the business world, not nerds, but then you lost it.

    So you'd rather Microsoft talked down games and said, "yeah, we are gamers, we know our place, these were great sales, more than Harry Potter and Spiderman did in a day, but you know what, we are no where near as big as they are. Moviez rulz"

    Get real. Microsoft are more than right to bask in their success and put a good spin on it. It does do the industry good. People flock to things that are seen as being successful.

  • Razz #50 4 years ago

    aldo_14: No disrespect mate but after reading that lond post it's as if you said nothing at all.

    How strange! or you to type such a long response and not create, imo, a compelling argument!

    It's almost as if you've given up. :/

  • lambtron #51 4 years ago

    At least he didn't post the same thing twice ;).

  • Sebo #52 4 years ago

    @aldo14

    Well, I've already said I think they've put a spin on it, but a bigger first day gross than the biggest movie or biggest book is something worth putting a spin on - no matter how they achieved it. Don't crucifiy Microsoft for trying to heighten the position of their company - that's simply business.

    And as for Boyd being better, it's my name they chant in the stands. SEEEBBBOOO. I am the true pop culture phenomenon.

    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 10:09

  • DanWhitehead #53 4 years ago

    As opposed to the millions of people who dress like Frodo Baggins on the way to work?

    My point is simply that dress-up costumes are just one of the many areas where things like Harry Potter and Spider-Man make their "pop culture phenomenon" known. Lord of the Rings is a terrible example for your counter-argument since the movies and DVDs have grossed more than any game, and there are still shelves of merchandise available on the high street.

    This argument has one major flaw. Spider-Man is first and foremost a comic (sorry, graphic novel) not a movie.

    That's not a major flaw, since the vast majority of the spin-off products are licensed from the films, not the comics. And the fact that Spider-Man is famous across several different media, and has remained so for forty years, helps prove my point. The world at large is not clamoring for the Halo novels or comics. There are no Halo cartoon shows. It's a gaming phenomenon, not a mainstream crossover.

    Niether do novels.

    My comment was in response to the statement that one day of Halo 3 sales have magically overturned the role of films in pop culture. Swap Brad Pitt and Jessica Alba for Stephen King and Tom Clancy and the point remains the same. Society at large is still vastly more invested in the work of these people than any game studio.

    We live in a society which rates money over anything else. The fact is money-wise the games industry is already bigger than the film industry which in turn is much bigger than the litrature industry.

    These "games are bigger than movies" myths always roll around, usually on the back of some misunderstood press release getting rehashed by a clueless newspaper, and they're always based on the same fuzzy math. The figures for games always include hardware sales, while the figures for movies are just calculated using US box office gross, ignoring global box office and the enormous ancillary markets of DVD and TV.

    A more honest statement would be to say that, in terms of gross revenue, sales of videogames are now comparable to US box office receipts - which is fantastic. However, in terms of the size and impact of the respective global industries, the notion that videogames are now the leading entertainment medium are absolute bollocks.

  • Nallen #54 4 years ago

    Has anyone levelled scathing criticism at the muppets who genuinely didn't get the badger replaces entertainment gag yet.

    And don't go telling me you got it and you were trying to be funny, you dumb shits.

    Anyway 'Halo 3 redefines entertainment' warrants a redefinition of the term? didn't you guys give it (cue drum roll) 10/10? You must have found it redefining of the genre at least, perhaps a vast step forward for gaming as an art, an epic master stroke of story telling?

    Honestly EG, I don't know how you can look at yourself.

    But anyway, congrats to Microsoft on the huge pile of money. You sure did out money everyone else.

  • LHH #55 4 years ago

    err...Meg White sex tape people.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 10:32

  • Sebo #56 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    "A more honest statement would be to say that, in terms of gross revenue, sales of videogames are now comparable to US box office receipts - which is fantastic. However, in terms of the size and impact of the respective global industries, the notion that videogames are now the leading entertainment medium are absolute bollocks."

    So now you are saying games and movies ARE comparable? Seems like its your reasoning that is absolute bollocks.

  • optimusprym8 #57 4 years ago

    Halo, Harry Potter, X-Factor, Spiderman whatever... just goes to show with enough advertising and marketing spin, the sheep will buy any old bollocks.

  • T4RG4 #58 4 years ago

    I want EG to report on what I believe will be a massive up-turn in Meg White sex tape downloads over the next 20 hours.

    +1 from me
    +2 if I find badgers in it

  • DanWhitehead #59 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    So you'd rather Microsoft talked down games and said, "yeah, we are gamers, we know our place, these were great sales, more than Harry Potter and Spiderman did in a day, but you know what, we are no where near as big as they are. Moviez rulz".

    It's not "talking down games". Stating that Halo 3 grossed more in one day than the latest Harry Potter or Spider-Man is a fact. Nothing wrong with that, and it is - as I've said many times but should probably reiterate again for good measure - A Very Good Thing. I'm playing Halo 3. I'm enjoying Halo 3. It deserves its success.

    My problem comes with hyperbole like "pop culture phenomenon" and "redefining entertainment".

    Get real. Microsoft are more than right to bask in their success and put a good spin on it. It does do the industry good. People flock to things that are seen as being successful.

    It can do the industry good from a customer level, in that people may be more inclined to check out Halo 3 (although you could argue that this has more immediate benefit to Microsoft than the industry as a whole) but from a corporate point of view such hyperbole, while par for the course, simply reinforces the notion that games desperately want to be accepted as being As Good As, Or Even Better, Than Films And Books.

    Once again: $170m is an impressive figure, and will certainly generate interest in the industry. But its a one-off event. This level of sales is the exception, not the rule, and in the bigger picture it really doesn't put Halo, or games in general, even close to the same ballpark as the mega-franchises that Microsoft keep comparing it to. Big games have big launch days because, due to the need for a dedicated console, there's a finite number of customers to serve. Then...that's it. They sit on the shelf until everyone who wants it has bought a copy. Then you make it a budget game and do a sequel.

    Compare that to the best case scenario for movies: Massive opening weekend, blockbuster theatrical run, huge DVD launch, sale of TV rights to different countries and cable operators, huge Special Edition DVD launch, sale of rights to in-flight movie providers and hotel chains, budget DVD release.

    Successful movies make money, keep making money for many years, and provide loads of secondary revenue in the shape of broadcast rights and licensed merchandise.

    That's what entertainment industry accountants see - money-making potential for years to come and that's why these sorts of "Games > Movies" claims look silly from a business perspective. One $170m launch is great - really really great - but it takes more than that to overtake an industry in which one product can still generate billions in revenue.

  • jack_klugman #60 4 years ago

    Meg White sex tape?

  • Charroux #61 4 years ago

    Nallen said:
    "Has anyone levelled scathing criticism at the muppets who genuinely didn't get the badger replaces entertainment gag yet.

    And don't go telling me you got it and you were trying to be funny, you dumb shits.

    Anyway 'Halo 3 redefines entertainment' warrants a redefinition of the term? didn't you guys give it (cue drum roll) 10/10? You must have found it redefining of the genre at least, perhaps a vast step forward for gaming as an art, an epic master stroke of story telling?

    Honestly EG, I don't know how you can look at yourself.

    But anyway, congrats to Microsoft on the huge pile of money. You sure did out money everyone else."

    I understand very little of the post. Could you please:
    1 - explain the badgers joke. I'm not kidding - I don't get it.
    2 - explain which parts of your post were sarcasm, and which were said in a straight face. It's almost impossible to tell.

  • DanWhitehead #62 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    So now you are saying games and movies ARE comparable? Seems like its your reasoning that is absolute bollocks.

    Try and keep up. I said that you shouldn't make claims of pop culture penetration based on comparing gross receipts for individual games, movies and books since they all have different price structures. I didn't say that the game and movie industry cannot be compared, since they clearly can. Hell, you can compare a rhino to a sofa if you like - you just won't come up with anything useful.

  • Sebo #63 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    It's hard to keep up with the shite you are sprouting. You are jumping about all over the place with your opinions.

    Halo did well, phenomenally well. Get over it.

  • zuljin #64 4 years ago

    @Sebo
    I think you need to read more carefully what danwhitehead is writing, because it makes good sense to me. I for one agree, in that it is absolutely fantastic a game managed to get such demand and sales in such a short period (Possibly frustrating, because I really hope that gets reinvested for Halo 4).

    But companies will shout from the rooftops the best possible number statistics. Noone here (I don't think) is saying Halo 3 doesn't deserve the praise, or this demand, or that MS should say nothing. All I think people should do is take these numbers with a pinch of salt, because it is just marketing at the end of the day.

  • morriss #65 4 years ago

    How do I become a mmember of the EG World Council? Sounds sexeh!

  • kangarootoo #66 4 years ago

    @DanWhitehead & Sebo

    Keep it civil you two. You were having a perfectly reasonable debate up until a few posts ago. Now you are getting all stroppy with each other other and the "Giant compedium of playground names" is being wheeled out. If you both get all arsey you just end up misunderstanding each other even more, resulting in more hair pulling, and then you just end up looking like stroppy kids to all passers by.

    Well thats my patronising debate policing over. Carry on :)

  • aldo_14 #67 4 years ago

    Well, I've already said I think they've put a spin on it, but a bigger first day gross than the biggest movie or biggest book is something worth putting a spin on - no matter how they achieved it. Don't crucifiy Microsoft for trying to heighten the position of their company - that's simply business.

    It's business, sure, and I'm not criticizing them for playing the game* - it's the game itself that I don't like.

    (*of spin)

    And as for Boyd being better, it's my name they chant in the stands. SEEEBBBOOO. I am the true pop culture phenomenon.

    So was Bert, though.....

  • smirny #68 4 years ago

    Look...

    Lots and lots of people buy a cheap book.

    Fewer poeple buy an expenseive computer game.

    If the cost of the book rises less people would buy it, but potencially making the same amount of money because of the increase in price.

    If the cost of the game was reduced more poeple would buy it, and therefore again potencially make the same amount of money because there are more sales at a lower price.

    ...that is how the comparision works.

    Any questions?
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 11:07

  • Sebo #69 4 years ago

    @smirny

    Thank you

    @Aldo

    Are we talking Konterman or Vogts. Either way, neither could lace my boots.

    @kangartoo

    Point taken. The "keeping up" thing dragged me down that road. I see Dan's points, but I think they are misguided ones. He's desperately looking for fault in something I think he'd be better off just enjoying.

  • Nallen #70 4 years ago

    If Halo was the same price as Harry Potter it would not make the same money because there is larger installed user base of eyes than Xbox 360s.

    The guy that asked me to explain my post, I'm getting to that.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 11:09

  • DanWhitehead #71 4 years ago

    Halo did well, phenomenally well. Get over it.

    Get over what? I'm playing the game. I think it's a great game. I've said over and over that it deserves its success and that $170m is an impressive achievement. My sole point is, and always has been, that this figure makes for nifty marketing pitch but categorically does not make Halo a "pop culture phenomenon" that is bigger than Harry Potter and Spider-Man and "redefines entertainment".

    That's it.

  • aldo_14 #72 4 years ago


    Are we talking Konterman or Vogts. Either way, neither could lace my boots.

    Vogts was never a cult hero - even the Germans hated him, and he was actually (reasonably) good for them.

  • DanWhitehead #73 4 years ago

    I see Dan's points, but I think they are misguided ones. He's desperately looking for fault in something I think he'd be better off just enjoying.

    This is where we differ, I think. I can separate my enjoyment of the game from the business that surrounds it. I loved Hot Fuzz but if Simon Pegg went on TV and said that it was a pop culture phenomenon to rival The Marx Brothers, I'd still say he was talking out of his arse.

  • Nallen #74 4 years ago

    Charroux, EG wrote: "(An emergency meeting of the Eurogamer Word Council declared that until the definition of entertainment was sorted out again we would draft a suitable replacement in all future instances where it might be used.)"

    Then paraphrased: ""Halo 3 is a genuine badger [entertainment] phenomenon and our customers have responded very enthusiastically to the release,"
    and said
    "So, where were you on the most active and badgering [entertaining] Xbox Live gaming day in history?"

    See? they replaced it, just like they said they would.

    As for sarcasm, everything after 'Anyway'.

  • RexRunti #75 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    My point was that the Lord of the Rings is huge and if people don't dress as Frodo (except at special events) why should we expect this from the Master Chief?

    My point about Spider-Man is that he was already a "pop-culture phonmenon" before the movie was released so all the movie did was extend the popularity. The fact is the movie industry hasn't given us a Mario, Sonic or even a Master Chief since the industry first got off it's feet (apart from Indiana Jones). In other words movies follow popular culture they don't lead it.

    Yes I expect you would recognise Brad Pitt on the high street, but would you recognize Tom Clancy or even Stephen King? Pop culture isn't about celebrity it's about culture and movies have barely contibuted anything new for about twenty years. My mum could tell you who Lara Croft is but she couldn't tell you who Beatrix Kiddo is.

    Anything that makes $170mil in 24 hours is both phenomal and popular so describing it as a "popular culture phenomenon" is hardly a stretch of the imagination. They have Master Chief Mountain Dew and StarCraft crisps FFS (and the latter isn't even a limited edition).

  • Sebo #76 4 years ago

    @danwhitehead

    Bigger than Harry Potter and Spiderman debatable. Bigger first day gross than them, apparently not debatable. "pop culture phenomenon", well it is a stretch of the truth in my opinion, but not by much.

    Look at Smirny's post and ask yourself if Harry Potter and Spiderman would do as well if the pricing tables were turned. It's seems blatantly obvious that they wouldn't.

    "This is where we differ, I think. I can separate my enjoyment of the game from the business that surrounds it. I loved Hot Fuzz but if Simon Pegg went on TV and said that it was a pop culture phenomenon to rival The Marx Brothers, I'd still say he was talking out of his arse."

    But Hot Fuzz wasn't a pop culture phenomenon. Say Quinton Tarantino said it about Pulp Fiction? Would he be talking out his arse?


  • L42yB #77 4 years ago

    @Nallen - did it really need explaining? I guess from reading sum of these comics that maybe it did...

    @T4RG4 - :D Indeed! I'd never even heard of this 'Meg White Sex Tape before reading this story but I will be downloading it and having a look now ;)

  • rhinoxious #78 4 years ago

    Video games aren't mass market for two reasons.

    1. You have to put some effort in to play them, and most people can't be bothered.

    2. They haven't been around long enough, most old people still look at them as new fangled things they won't understand.

    And do we really want them to be massmarket?

    After all a big blockbuster lasts only two hours, costs around £7+ to see, and is generally shit. Usually because its been watered down to appeal to such a wide audience.

    Halo 3 is the closest thing we've got to a blockbuster, and on Heroic difficulty it's most certainly been designed by gamers for gamers. A lot better than pirates of the carribean 3, which was designed by committee and pleased no one.


  • Sebo #79 4 years ago

    @aldo14

    Are you sure you meant to spell cult with an L instead of an N when referring to McVogts?

  • Sebo #80 4 years ago

    @rhinoxious

    Agree with points one and two and the two paragraphs that follow. Gaming is still unique on those fronts.

    But I would disagree about your claim that its not mass market. There are many games stores on your high street as there are book stores. Okay, DVDs and music get more shelf space in Virgin and HMV, but again, this is an industry which is only really now emerging from its infancy. When production costs come down that shelf space gap may narrow.

    I don't know, I think this year, particularly with the Wii, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't at some point played a video game. Even my granny has.

    That to me is mass market.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 11:49

  • lambtron #81 4 years ago

    "And do we really want them to be massmarket?

    After all a big blockbuster lasts only two hours, costs around £7+ to see, and is generally shit. Usually because its been watered down to appeal to such a wide audience. "

    This is the way things are headed IMO. Heavenly Sword is a good case in point. I'm not saying its "generally shit" but it is extremely short and virtually plays itself.

  • Caimbeul #82 4 years ago

    With that kind of success Im guessing there will be a number 4 also.

  • GitSomE_UK #83 4 years ago

    Yes the badger did need explaining especially for those of us who don't read the articles properly and skim read whilst doing other things.

    I've heard that much marketing bollocks on a day to day basis I genuinely thought it was some New Media Nathan Barleyesque comment.

    /Gets coat


  • moggsy #84 4 years ago

    We watched DIY SOS last night (bare with me there is a point ;-) ).

    The program was a laugh as always but by the end the wife was in floods of tears and I was nearly joining in. They were doing up a house for a woman who's husband had recently died of cancer and all his mates turned up to help.

    Then I had a game of Halo 3. The thought immediately came to me - is Halo going to give me the range of emotions that a simple 30 minute TV program did. The answer is a whole hearted no.

    Until videogames have some sort of emotional range they will always be considered as something 'for kids', no matter how many copies of a particular game is sold on release day. That's the way to the mass market - certain games touch on this but none have ever made me cry.

  • Sebo #85 4 years ago

    @moggsy

    Obviously never played Rise of the Robots then have you. Tears flowed that day...

  • kangarootoo #86 4 years ago

    "They have Master Chief Mountain Dew and StarCraft crisps FFS (and the latter isn't even a limited edition)."

    Holy cow. I didn't know that. That is pretty mainstream, 'cos making crisps isn't cheap you know.


    @Sebo

    "Look at Smirny's post and ask yourself if Harry Potter and Spiderman would do as well if the pricing tables were turned. It's seems blatantly obvious that they wouldn't. "

    I have to say that smells like a bit of a strawman to me. The definition of a pop culture phenomenon does not hinge on whether an item would make as much profit as HP if its shop floor price were the same. Its a fair point to make, but you can't read too much into it.


    On a general note, we can probably split hairs regards what mass market means. Does it mean the people buying the products? Or does it mean the people that are aware the product exists? Certainly anything that gets on the front page of the BBC news website is pretty well known, but only a small minority of readers will actually buy the game. Plenty of people go to the cinema or rent films, and shedloads read books. If those are the staple definitions of mass market, there are loads of other things that we might consider to be mass market (iPods and Golf) that don't actually get look in by comparison.

    "Entirely subjective" if the definition that gets my vote, what says everyone else?

  • drumm23 #87 4 years ago

    Forget all that.
    What a game!
    I spent about 5 hours on Forge last night, made a video, freaking awesome.

    ...
    oh and it's not Meg, don't waste an erection.

  • Sebo #88 4 years ago

    @kangratoo

    Surely anything that makes that much money in america alone in one day is mass market.

    Surely something that has been finding its way onto every news website is mass market. It's still top story on E! Entertainment today.

    I'm not trying to define Halo as a pop culture phenomenon. I think that is a very elusive tag that possibly only the TV, the Beatles, and the internet, really justify.

    I don't think any game, movie, album or book has ever really been a pop culture phenomenon.

    But to say it's not up there with Spiderman and Harry Potter, seems very very wrong. It clearly is getting that much publicity and taking in that much money.




  • kangarootoo #89 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    "But to say it's not up there with Spiderman and Harry Potter, seems very very wrong. It clearly is getting that much publicity and taking in that much money."

    I agree as it happens, well mostly (the money bit I agree, not sure about the publicity side of things).

    It all just goes to show how we can argue over hard facts (such as money taken on day 1), but that arguing about whether something can be assigned a definition, the assignment of which is entirely subjective, with the idea in mind that the debate is in any way factual is kind of like trying to dig half a hole.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 12:24

  • Sebo #90 4 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Right, now you are just getting far too philosophical.....

  • moggsy #91 4 years ago

    @moggsy

    Obviously never played Rise of the Robots then have you. Tears flowed that day...

    Badum tish.

    I was asking for that wasn't I ;-)

  • RexRunti #92 4 years ago

    And with that one comment kangarootoo manages to kill the debate and the entire comments thread. Letting me get on with some work whilst wanting to go home and actually play the rest of level 2.

  • kangarootoo #93 4 years ago

    Sorry everyone. I'm a bad person :(

  • bonker #94 4 years ago

    Some definitions then:

    Kanga's last comment - definitely NOT mass-market (120+ IQ required for interpretation!).

    Anything selling millions of units per year (and games clearly do) - definitely IS mass-market.

  • afghan_jones #95 4 years ago

    "The fact is the movie industry hasn't given us a Mario, Sonic or even a Master Chief since the industry first got off it's feet (apart from Indiana Jones). In other words movies follow popular culture they don't lead it. "

    Dumbest thing I ever heard, movies produce popular culture icons and touchstones all the time.

    And the following pop culture icons from movies, drumroll please:

    ET, Neo, Terminator, Alien, Predator, Rambo, Rocky, Dumbo, Jaws, Dirty Harry, Darth Vader (& most other Star Wars characters etc),

    a very brief list but all instantly recognisable characters referenced constantly and all popular culture icons straight from movies.

  • zuljin #96 4 years ago

    @Sebo
    "I don't know, I think this year, particularly with the Wii, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't at some point played a video game. Even my granny has.
    That to me is mass market."

    My flatmates have only ever played Burnout once or twice. Games have a long way to go to really become mass market.

    @moggsy
    I cried at the Bioshock ending. I probably shouldn't admit that. Even if this emotional range isn't there for a lot of people atm, I hope thats something the gaming industry as a whole aims for.

  • andromeda #97 4 years ago

    it isn't Meg White ffs.
    And it doesnt help the poor girl that this is doing the rounds.

  • RexRunti #98 4 years ago

    @afghan_jones

    I did qualify that statement with "since the games industry got off it's feet" and out of your list there is only one that has emerged in the last 20 years.

  • LHH #99 4 years ago

    *drivel drivel drivel, Halo's not art blah blah blah, my oh-pinons mean more to me than yours drivel drivel drivel...*



  • belziah #100 4 years ago

    And still no profit for MGS! Whats that, 6-7 years in business and not a bean in profits.

  • ParanoidZombie #101 4 years ago

    Bought this yesterday... What a great game, really impressive, and FUN (games are supposed to be fun, remember?). Bioshock+ Halo3= 2 great games that sell millions of copies, like dead rising, oblivion and gears of war before them. That's good news for the whole industry, I guess.

  • Sebo #102 4 years ago

    "My flatmates have only ever played Burnout once or twice. Games have a long way to go to really become mass market. "

    And a lot of people won't have bought an album or a movie this year. This "my flatmates" reasoning is absolutely absurd.

  • MasterGrief #103 4 years ago

    Whats so special about the opening day ?

    Just like with Halo 2 we all know sales will plummet over the coming days.
    I can't believe Peter Moore said such bollocks that Halo 2 & GTA were the best selling games last gen (well he was right about GTA) when both Gran Turismo 3 & 4 sold more as well as MGS2 & Super Smash Bros.
    It's a laugh comparing this to Harry Pottter though - the entire Halo series won't make a tenth of what HP has made

  • Sebo #104 4 years ago

    @mastergrief

    But would you do it differently in their position?

  • kangarootoo #105 4 years ago

    @bonker

    I'm not mass market? Hmmm, now I think on it, all my ex-girlfriends would probably agree with you on that one ;)


    @LHH

    Well thanks for the contribution. You've really shown us all up with that one.

  • Machiavellian #106 4 years ago

    Here is a Wiki on the sales for all games on the different consoles

    MGS 2 did not sell more than Halo 2 and neither did Super Smash Bros
    Pretty much all GTA games on the PS2 sold better as well as the GT games

    Halo 2 is a 9mill strong and actually could reach GTA and GT if it continues to sell.
    Ohh here is the wiki link
    http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bes...

  • cyber_nicco #107 4 years ago

    It's valid to point out that games cost more than books or movies - rendering the comparison a little fuzzy. However, I think it is a fair comparison. Money is the one thing that makes comparisons like these somewhat possible. For instance, if the Harry Potter book was priced at $100 each, it would likely sell much less, but perhaps it would take in more money (unlikely, but possible for this argument). When pricing a product, companies are always most interested in the amount of profit generated - not the number of units sold - and therefor set pricing accordingly (knowing that pricing will affect number of units sold).

    Finally, if you want to be nitpicky about it, movies grosses are kind of bullshit too. As ticket prices go up, it is more and more likely that a new blockbuster will exceed an older one in gross income. I remember Star Wars held the title for a long time, but was eventually beaten out. I wonder how it compares to Spider Man 3 in actual tickets sold (I don't know - I'm sure one of you does).

  • Nallen #108 4 years ago

    Indeed, this revenue thing is nonsense being pushed by Microsoft only. I think the only way you can really judge the mass market appeal is by the number of individual people that have paid money for a part of a given franchise.

    Sure, almost the entire world wide user base of the 360 bought this £40 title on day one making for massive, massive revenue. The real question though is how many actual copies have been bought?

    In my opinion to say Halo is bigger than Spiderman (not the actual claim being made, but certainly the claim Microsoft would have you go away from their barrage of marketing waffle with) you'd have to know how many individual people have spent any amount of money on either franchise.

    It doesn't matter if someone has spent £2 on a Spiderman comic, £7 on a cinema ticket, £40 on a game, £1500 on a game, a console and a high def telly or £5,000 on a...Spiderman comic ;)

  • kangarootoo #109 4 years ago

    On that note.

    [link url=http://www .imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross
    ]http://www .imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross
    [/link]

    In support of your point cyber_nicco, you can see the vast majority of the list is made up of movies that were released relatively recently.


    Whereas this link,

    [link url=h ttp://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1548435
    ]http://ww w.everything2.com/index.pl?node...[/link]

    has prices adjusted for inflation (only top ten unfortunately), and hence shows a closer picture (if not 100% accurate) of actual ticket numbers.

  • LHH #110 4 years ago

    Why thank you kangarootoo. But it was only a small contribution after all, no need for the compliment really. ;)

  • Sebo #111 4 years ago

    @nallen

    But, if you were Microsoft would you say anything different? Ofcourse this is the impression they want people to leave with.

    And they have one important statistic to back it up. They took in more money in a day than Spiderman and Harry Potter. Fact.

    If it was my product, I'd be doing the same thing.

  • kangarootoo #112 4 years ago

    @LHH

    Dammit! I really don't like it when someone disarms an arsey comment of mine by being gracious in response. It make me look like a right grumpy old man (and no one likes getting found out).

  • Abscido #113 4 years ago

    Games like Halo have only *begun* to crawl out of the sweaty armpit of young male society. Just read these comments for proof - interspersed between some really good points is a constant reference to a Meg White sex tape.

    At present, the games industry can only match movies and books in terms of console sales - in other words, something like the Wii (or the PS2 here in Ireland, where the per-household number is second only to Japan) can become a phenomenon, but not an individual game.

  • zuljin #114 4 years ago

    Sebo
    "And a lot of people won't have bought an album or a movie this year. This "my flatmates" reasoning is absolutely absurd."

    That was my point. You're talking about the Wii showing games are becoming mass market, which is equally stupid. 10 million people owning a Wii, whilst a lot, is still nowhere near the sheer number of consoles sold in the last generation.

    Like I said, games are nowhere near mass market.

  • Sebo #115 4 years ago

    I still think as far as movies go, only Star Wars is a genuine pop culture phenomenon.

  • Machiavellian #116 4 years ago

    The reason why MS can make the comparison with popular movies and books like others have said is because of the “MONEY”. When you here about first day sell of popular books like Harry Potter or Spiderman, they usually talk about the box office receipt not about how many people actually viewed the movie. In other words, the numbers that get reported are always about how much those popular forms of entertainment made not about how many people are being . What this tell the other industry is that Halo sells. Now the movie industry knows they can make a profit. The merchandising industry knows they can make a profit.

  • Sebo #117 4 years ago

    @zujlin

    "That was my point. You're talking about the Wii showing games are becoming mass market, which is equally stupid. 10 million people owning a Wii, whilst a lot, is still nowhere near the sheer number of consoles sold in the last generation.

    Like I said, games are nowhere near mass market."

    For a start, that wasn't your point.

    So you are telling me 10 million isn't a mass market..............

    Some of the biggest selling albums of all time only sold 10 million, and we are talking about something which has been out less than a year.

    And I wasn't suggesting the Wii was making it mass market alone, but I think if you surveyed the entire country you would find something like 85 percent of people had played it.

    Then there's the 100 million or whatever the playstation 2 sold. So that isn't mass market.....

    So what exactly is a mass market product then Zujlin?

  • rprince #118 4 years ago

    GitSomeUK said:
    "Yes the badger did need explaining especially for those of us who don't read the articles properly and skim read whilst doing other things."

    I must admit I didn't get it first time, but surely if you don't understand what you read, you check over it again to work it out?

    Plus, what else can you be doing whilst reading that distract you that much? Listening to music, eating or having a quick one off the wrist! ;-)

  • zuljin #119 4 years ago

    @Sebo
    It was my point. You constantly miss peoples points. Case and example:

    "...whilst a lot, is still nowhere near the sheer number of consoles sold in the last generation."

    I would say that 115 million consoles IS mass market, and in comparison, 10 million for the Wii isn't.


    "Some of the biggest selling albums of all time only sold 10 million, and we are talking about something which has been out less than a year."

    No. Just no.
    ([link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-sell ing_albums_worldwide)
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bes...[/link]

    "And I wasn't suggesting the Wii was making it mass market alone, but I think if you surveyed the entire country you would find something like 85 percent of people had played it."

    Again, making figures up does not make them into fact. Actually 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

  • Sebo #120 4 years ago

    @zuljin

    Missing points???? Try making some zuljin.

    First you say?

    "That was my point. You're talking about the Wii showing games are becoming mass market, which is equally stupid. 10 million people owning a Wii, whilst a lot, is still nowhere near the sheer number of consoles sold in the last generation.

    Like I said, games are nowhere near mass market."

    Then.......................

    "I would say that 115 million consoles IS mass market, and in comparison, 10 million for the Wii isn't."

    Nowhere did I say gaming was mass market on the back of the Wii. No where. Read every post and you'll see that. What I said was that the Wii was helping more and more people come to gaming. Today I was a couple in their late 40s talking about playing Wii Sports. If that's not tapping mass market....

    And then to further emphasise my point - which in case you've missed it is simply that gaming is mass market - Mario Brothers sold 40 million. That's right up there with some of the best selling albums of all time. As your list shows. That's not to mention that so many other games have crossed the 10 million barrier.

    Is gaming a bigger market than music - no.

    Is it mass market - f''cking right it is!!!!

    It's you who are missing my points my friend.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/07 @ 16:14

  • kangarootoo #121 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    "I still think as far as movies go, only Star Wars is a genuine pop culture phenomenon."

    Hmmm. I think James Bond might qualify, but anyway....

    We seem to have very different ideas as to what the "pop" bit of pop culture actually means. I mean, we all agree it means popular. What I am getting at is what degree of popularity qualifies.

    Example. Pop music as we know it is not the most popular genre of music out there. I think the most popular type of music in the US is Country and Western, by leagues. Looking at the entire world, I would be surprised if classical music didn't feature pretty highly. And that is just talking about record sales; what about radio time, number of radio stations, etc.

    As book sales go, the Bible is pop culture through and through. Wasn't it only in recent years it was knocked off the top spot for sales in a SINGLE YEAR (by Noddy if memory serves, though that sounds suspiciously like bollox). Overall, there is still no book to match it as far as total sales since we started counting that sort of thing.

    My point being (no half holes this time) is that Gone With the Wind is pop culture, War and Peace is pop culture... unless, we decide that it means something more than pure sales numbers.

    Some would say the Reservoir Dogs and Escape from New York films were pop culture...

  • Sebo #122 4 years ago

    @kangaratoo

    I obviously don't miss your points, something to do with you putting them across coherently perhaps and not contradicting yourself.

    Would agree about Bond being pop culture, but could you add phenomenon on it? I don't think so, but that's just an opinion.

    Pulp Fiction springs to mind when you mention Reservoir Dogs, and I think PF has a greater claim.

    But yeah, pop culture is something totally subjective. British pop culture varies hugely from other European pop culture. Coronation Street is part of our pop culture I guess. Pop culture is a weird thing.

    There's no definitive answer to the "Halo is a pop culture phenomenon" remark. I think Microsoft is overegging its success, but not by much. I can't understand gamers who don't want the industry to be seen in that light. I really can't see where they are coming from.

    There certainly seems to be a breed of gamer which hates anything popular, given the hate I've seen devoted to the Wii and Halo in the time I've been coming to these boards.

  • Nallen #123 4 years ago

    @Sebo
    Of course I'd be misleading people and blowing my own trumpet if I was Microsoft. I'm not asking for a procedural U-turn from them. And truth be told it is of course a huge game in terms of popularity.

    But despite the fact I can see *why* they are doing what they're doing I don't think it's right and I find this bullshit they're peddling reprehensible. Look at Bioshock, I didn't read anything from those guys saying they'd changed the world. They might have quoted other people saying it about their game on websites and box covers etc. but I didn't read anything from one of their guys talking about how fucking awesome they are and how much money they made.

    And if they did I'll gladly read it and adjust my opinion of them accordingly, but it wont make MS any better for doing it.

  • cyber_nicco #124 4 years ago

    Nice links, Kangarootoo.

  • superdelphinus #125 4 years ago

    wtf is a 'badger phenomenon'?

  • Sebo #126 4 years ago

    @nallan

    Fair points. I can't feel the same though. You've got to talk the talk. I'm sure Bioshock's sales are slumping now, maybe its time they piped up about how good their game is (or not as it may be) and then they could start making more money.

  • cyber_nicco #127 4 years ago

    While I like your points, Kanga (may I call you Kanga?), I would disagree that Country and Western music is most popular in the US. Perhaps in about 30% (geographically) of the US it is dominant, but elsewhere, not so much.

    I don't know all the sales figures, but I think the Billboard charts is a good place to check. I'm pretty sure Rock/Rap/Soul are the most popular genres.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't want to further the image that I know many of you have about us Americans... ;)

  • Christian_Otte #128 4 years ago

    I spent the day playing Stuntman: Ignition. Great game!

  • afghan_jones #129 4 years ago

    Ive always thought of pop culture as being anything which acts as an iconic touchstone, references to which are instantly recognisable.

    In that sense, if you mention 'Do you feel lucky, punk', people instantly get the reference, whether they have seen dirty harry or not, or whether they are fans of 70's cinema. Equally, Arnie, clad in leather, astride a bike is instantly recognisable as the terminator, whether you have watched the film or not.

    Harry Potter's lightening strike scar plus glasses are an instantly recognisable image, The Simpsons, 'Heeeeres johnny', Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, so many things which you can mention in front of almost anyone and they will instantly 'get'.

    Even lesser things such as Austin Power's 'Yeah Baby' exclamation come in the pop culture category but as of right now, Halo just doesnt pull that weight. If I made a joke at work or down the pub which riffed on the Simpsons, or Star Wars I would be confident that 90% of people would get the reference. If I did the same thing with Halo or Master Chief, people just wouldnt get it. At all.

  • RumpyStumpy #130 4 years ago

    Everyone just go out and buy Firefly....

  • Nallen #131 4 years ago

    Afghan_Jones, spot on, imo.

  • kangarootoo #132 4 years ago

    @Sebo

    "There's no definitive answer to the "Halo is a pop culture phenomenon" remark"

    Absolutely. One thought just occured to me, after using some of the other media we've discussed as examples. Perhaps the phenomenon part of all of this could be based on whether somerthing is unique and distict amongst its peers.

    So we say Star Wars is stand out because it stands out among other films, and we say the Harry Potter is stand out because it stands out against other books.

    On that basis Halo 3 is a phenomenon, because viewed against video games on the whole it is unique and distinct to some degree (in terms of popularity I mean, not necessarily the gameplay). I guess by that token PacMan is also a phenomenon (if anyone here remembers that far back, I personally don't, but I'm only about 5 years too young).


    @cyber_nicco

    I think I hold the record for the most variants of my username used on here. I was called Kangatoo by someone earlier today. All variants of kangarootoo are better than "nob head" so I accept them with grace.

    Anyway, re the Country and Western thing, I was kind of guessing but based on something I heard a while back. Maybe there are more C&W radio stations in the US than any other kind? I'm not sure.

    My point is really about perceptions. Bollywood has a far bigger film industry than Hollywood for example. In fact so does the Hong Kong martial arts and US porn film industries if we concern ourselves only with number of films made rather than actual turnover.

  • malloc #133 4 years ago

    Tom, brilliantly written article mate, glol, great stuff.

    Not surprisingly the M$ would be a bit ott, but they're really taking it to another level.

    I'm still chuckling like a teenager. Hehe.

  • MasterGrief #134 4 years ago

    @ Machiavellian

    That 9.2 million is complete BS. How do I know ? Well for a start the source it lists is dated Feb 2005 which means that Halo2 would have sold 9.2 million in about 4 months.

    Eurogamers lists a more recent (2006) update which shows it sold 6.5 million so I'd put the number at around 7 million now

  • aldo_14 #135 4 years ago

    Has someone linked this yet? - [link url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7016227.stm
    ]http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment...[/link]

    Essentially, games make less money and sell less copies than cinema tickets, DVDs or CDs.

    EDIT; NB: worked out something - 450,000 (AFAIK - correct if wrong) copies of the $130 Legendary Edition (or whatever it was called) would account for about $58.5m. So perhaps it's not as much of a significant gap over Halo 2 as it initially appears?
    Edited by 1 at 28/09/07 @ 16:42

  • Sebo #136 4 years ago

    @aldo14

    No shit sherlock

    Got to love the BBC - money well spent for the mine of information that they are.

  • GMWPS3 #137 4 years ago

    This opening amount of sales made is misleading because many gamers had pre-ordered it weeks/months in advance. You don't see that for a movie .... because it's not possible. Therefore you are bound to get a super day one figure.