Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Comments by Tom Bramwell

@dsmx:

from m$'s own documentation:

4×AA multisampling is provided for free by the Xbox 360, so using 4×AA multisampling is recommended.

and it's 10mb not 8

My mistake but it still doesn't change that it isn't enough.

Sony, when you announce the capabilities of PS4, please don't bullshit, this is getting embarrassing now.

""At the end of the day its sensation of realism that matters, not uber authenticity."

Agreed, but we're not Japanese... ;)"

Well the sim experince isn't as authentic as LFS for example, so why not just give in and add some damage already.

Woah woah woah gt4 was far from perfect.

A completely broken 2player mode kills that notion...

@seasidebaz - That's what Microsoft's documentation might say but most Xbox 360 games use 2X AA, a good example is the Saints Row demo which did use 4X AA@ 720p but the developers dropped it down to 2X AA ingame and 4X AA on the character creation screen to improve the framerate for the final release. If 4X AA really was free then why did Halo 3 not use any at all? Answer: it isn't free at all, 4X AA uses memory and that's why Bungie chose not to add AA to Halo 3 and restrict the resolution to 1152x640 so they could do some fancy lighting effects instead. If AA really was free then they could have still used 4X AA as well but they didn't because they couldn't. ;)

ironically you could consider it free if it was fixed, as in not an option.
Currently devs can choose to use this memory for other things.
So the not being free is actually a good thing.

Skip to * if you are not interested in an off topic(ish) rant!

I think this AA talk (on both PS3 and 360) merely highlights the fact that both consoles are in fact underpowered for their intentions. They usher in 'hi def' resolutions but barely meet the spec needed to provide amazing graphics AT those resolutions at a good frame rate.

Does anyone else agree that this generation has felt the most fucked up in console history? it's transitionary, we certainly do appreciate the HD res and HDTVs bringing consoles inline with the clarity we'd been used to seeing on a PC/Monitor but so much seems left out while chasing resolutions in many games (there are some very nice exceptions of course on both systems) but in general there is far too many compromises made in the name of Hi Def that weren't there before on SD. SD looks like crap up close whatever, but the aliasing problem wasn't so obvious as we had to sit further and CRTs blurred it all up.

I think it was definitely time to go HD on consoles but I am convinced that both consoles were too eager to be released (or put in Blu Ray) to really concentrate on a fully capable solution. So now developers are already working on GPU hardware that isn't even a half as powerful as what it should be to cope admirably with 1080p (or even 720p)... unless you look at simplistic/2D games with lo poly counts that still look good.. anything that is aiming to be more detailed than previous gen games is falling foul of not always hitting the target res (hence this god awful under res/scale up BS that's in far too many games esp on the PS3)

The Conflict: Denied Ops demo on PS3 was disgusting, the blur and aliasing and general look of it was as scruffy as hell. PC Shooters have looked crisper than that for the last ten years - just WTF IS GOING ON HERE DEVS??? (not sure if the 360 version also looks like shit but either way it's just fucking awful what this generation is doing to games)... and that's from someone who has for the first time in a generation bought TWO consoles (360 and PS3). I was never underwhelmed by PS1 (playing wipeout and GT!) nor did I feel the gamecube wasn't up to scratch.. but both 360 and PS3 have tearing, aliasing and far too many bugs that are now 'acceptable' on consoles when they once weren't... and they say PC is dying? There will always be a place for PC while the users (with some brains) can work around/upgrade around the things that personally bug them. It seems on both top consoles this gen we are stuck with aliasing and tearing, maybe next gen when the HD dust has settled they can actually put top class hardware in them instead of holding back the industry with cheap ass solutions.

Seriously, Wii, 360, PS3 all have flaws that seem so much more detrimental this gen than ever before and that's not even starting on the disasterous reliability of 360, the mismatched hardware in the PS3 and the 'console for non gamers with shovelware and minigames' that is Wii.


....Having said all this...

*
...I can't wait for GT5p which should turn up in the post in the morning ;P

I've just put in the disc and had to install the game to the HDD - it's still going - taken about 10 minutes :(

Aye, nearly 20 mins to install, plus a game update from PSN straight afterwards. I left the update downloading for 30 mins and then it failed... it has since failed another 3 times. The PSNetwork must be seriously overloaded at the moment.

I managed to have a few races without installing the update and there seems to be some framerate and screen-tear problems. Everything runs smooth until you go round a bend when there are a few AI opponents in front of you and the PS3 starts to struggle. Otherwise this is typically Gran Turismo, there is nothing new here at all (I know it's a cut-down game). Even the AI cars still look like they are pre-scripted, but I could be wrong here, like I said I have only played a few races. Overall, for me, first impressions are that this is not 8/10 material but I am very early into the game.

But then there is this: PGR4 has no damage modeling, which is a serious negative IMO.

As comment by polephony (humm can't spell! - can't be bothered to go look) and i'm sure Bizare Creation at some point part of the reason for the no damage to cars is licences they have with car manufacturers some of them just don't want people seeing their cars all smashed up. As mentioned in another article this week Poly are in talks with the manufacturers to try and get this clause removed.

"the reason for the no damage to cars is licences they have with car manufacturers some of them just don't want people seeing their cars all smashed up".

I believe PGR4 has cosmetic damage, just like the previous PGR games. Windows will break, paintwork will be scratched, mirrors will break off etc, and the Forza series goes much further with it's damage modelling, therefore it's not the issue Polyphony make it out to be. Damage _may_ have been a problem with manufacturers when they first started the GT series back on the original Playstation, however that was many years ago. Since then, we have seen car damage implemented in games with no objections from the car manufacturers at all.

The fact is, the PS2 simply didn't have the power and memory to implement a decent damage model in a game like GT, since to do so would have meant sacrifices in other areas of the game, and for Polyphony those sacrifices were just not worth making. Now with the PS3, they have the technology to implement a decent damage model in GT, however Polyphony are playing catch up with others in this respect, therefore it's taking time for them to add damage to the series.

"I dunno, Toca 3 on the PS2 had convincing enough damage modelling, and fatnastic graphiics also, oh and a fantastic online mode."

Correct, but it wasn't running at 60fps, it was only 30fps, and Polyphony have always maintained that 60fps is a must for the series. Thererfore to include damage modelling in GT, they would have had to sacrifice the quality/performance of one or more of the following: framerate, graphics, physics, AI (cough), car models, lighting/effects etc. This is what Polyphony didn't want to do on the PS2.

Sony are the only people who could pull off selling an incomplete game to people and then selling it to them all over again when it's finally done. They release a demo to gain feedback and get people interested like most do, but think, well lets throw them a bit more content and milk some money out of the fools. They won't mind paying for the same content twice. We can't call it a demo because people wouldn't pay for that, we shall call it a Prologue.

Seriously people, get a grip. If MS did this they'd be torn to shreds for milking the gamer.

As already pointed out, the lack of damage excuses are all bogus.

FlatOut is better.

"Now with the PS3, they have the technology to implement a decent damage model in GT, however Polyphony are playing catch up with others in this respect, therefore it's taking time for them to add damage to the series."

That and of course because of this industry's obsessive focus on superficial graphics most of PS3's power will be used for creating HD graphics so that fanboys can compare screenshots across platforms and claim the superiority of the one they love most, rather than using it for something useful to gameplay like AI, physics and damage modeling...

^^^ Possibly Les, but there are exceptions. Forza's devs actually left out some graphical effects so that the game can have great AI, physics, customization and damage modelling at 60fps, something which isn't really appreciated by those gamers criticising Forza 2 for having less than photo realistic graphics. :|

GT5 will have more time spent in developing it forza is 1 year old now or near as..... no point comparing.. the graphics are sweet in gt5. game play is good. However game is only a demo..

"something which isn't really appreciated by those gamers criticising Forza 2 for having less than photo realistic graphics. :|"

Exactly. That doesn't bode well for the future of hardcore (or superficial) gaming...

Is it me or is GT getting very boring - I use to enjoy it, but just been playing GTP and it's not as impressive as I hoped. AI needs working, very stale and boring. Graphics are fine, but again nothing to make your eyes pop out after seeing: PGR4, Motor Storm, Burnout Paradise etc. I think after playing GT series on PS2, and other racers from Forza, Dirt to Motor Storm to Burnout; GT just seems boring and stale. Look forward to the Tocca Racing from Codemasters - this is more exciting for me

GT4 is just so yawn yawn zzzzzzzzz

It's certainly very pretty but in no stretch of the imagination the 'real driving simulator'....and the online issues are a joke.

Get your head out of the sand Polyphony and check this out...

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/news-131030.aspx

Overall GT5, for what it is (which is NOT a full game) is definatly one of the Best games this year (quality wise/gameplay wise). It's use of Shading, Lighting and Shadows is down right amazing. Compare the effects to Forza 2 (which uses some textured in shadows, fake shading and un true lighting aka bloom) and you will see an amazing difference. The driving physics are again stunning, put the physics on professional without any aids and it IS definatly a simulator, The Nissan GTR understeers and slides around bends just like it should..

Cannot wait for the Damage Model, definatly don't want a half a**ed version, if you have ever seen a real life 40mph crash.. Apparently *cough, forza 2* has not.. Trust Polyphony, amazing developers.