Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Comments by Rob Fahey

Nice write up, I've lost interest in GT over the years though, personally... it's so..... po-faced.

Blimey that London track really does look rather nice.

:bow: :bow:

Please remember to finish GT PSP during your lunch break guys!

Didn't i hear on the grapevine not so long ago that they are adding in a damage engine but only into the finished game?

Meh.

I picked up the Japanese version of this and played it loads over Christmas. Very very impressed with it.

>and the level of detail in the buildings by the track is astonishing

Yeah but why so many flat sprites for roadside detail? I prefer not to have any extras... flat stuff just breaks the illusion.

I think Forza has surpassed this series now in every way apart from the graphics.

I think ONLY the GT driving series of games could (and has/will) get away with launching a work in progress and charging for it.

No doubt Nintendo could have done it several times over with most of their top rated franchise games - but they don't - as they don't want to come across as money grabbing twats.

Plus releasing it on PS3 like this stifles competition and/or forces everyone elese to try a similar release schedule.

Fact is Polyphony just need to either work harder or (the more likely) employ more staff to get a faster turnaround for their products.

but it's not tru 1080p


sorry :-D I thought I'd try and get in there before some idiot does.

:-D

Uh-oh... screen tearing... :?

It's a bit disappointing to see it on the PS3 version of GT5 when the PS2 versions ran at a smooth 60 fps with none whatsoever albeit at standard definition. I did notice some tearing in the free GT HD demo (usually at the first corner) and the Japanese GT5 Prologue demo but then I was running the game at 1080p. Hopefully, dropping the resolution to 720p will fix it because nothing spoils immersion for me more than screen tearing. Yuck!

forza what?

you're horrible human beings :(

Snore.

"having cars that bounce off one another without even scraping their paintwork is downright odd. "

It's odd, but I'm actually hoping that the online modes have the typical GT collision physics meaning that it takes a really heavy hit to cause a spin. No, I'm not dirty racer but LOTS of people are. Damage is another thing altogether, I can live without it.

PGR4 for example is rubbish online because the cars spin from the smallest contact, intentional or not. Good, clean close racing is impossible because everybody will end up spinning sooner or later. The only way to enjoy the game is to switch the collisions OFF totally. Sadly that isn't possible in the matchmaking street races.

whilst I should be able to find out for myself this evening, assuming Mr Postie has popped it through the door today, what about the AI? One thing that really annoys me about GT still is the utterly retarded AI of the other drivers. Are they still on-rails (with the occasional cock-up in front of you to appear more clever) and ram into you if you brake in-front of them? Forza2 showed how AI should be done.

Darren - I think the screen tearing thing is a work in progress. It's been improved significantly from the Prologue demo, so it's obviously something Polyphony are aware of and trying to fix - unlike many other developers who seem to just treat it as being an acceptable trade-off for pretty next-gen graphics. (Which it isn't - it's one of the nastiest, ugliest and most experience-breaking faults you can find in a game's visuals.)

> No doubt Nintendo could have done it several times over
> with most of their top rated franchise games - but they don't -
> as they don't want to come across as money grabbing twats.

*Cough* Pokemon *Cough*

Finally got the Ferrari 599 last night. I've played online and noticed in a game cars kind of jumping at the start, like some odd glitch. All good fun though, did a supercar race on the Daytona track and cars were flying off left, right and centre. The in car mode gives an impressive sense of speed. Found the London track a bit dark but it's mad to race. The AI can be quite aggressive too which had me cursing at the TV because the player gets penalised for ramming or blocking but the AI cars apparently can do it without consequences.

"...it's silly that in the most realistic driving game we've ever seen, the cars are invincible."

Err.. As far as I know GTR 2,and Grand Prix Legends both feature solid damage models. I also fail to see what those sims have to do with some console arcade racer.

What's the dif' between the London track in this and that in PGR4?

PGR4 has a bunch of different courses around Westminster, about 10 or so. Not really sure what the question is.

Has the gameplay fundamentally changed at all since the Eiger demo? I was really keen to play that until I actually got the controller in my hand, and it was the same old dull experience Polyphony has been peddling us since 1997. I think the lack of rumble really hurt too, to be fair.

Still, look how shiny!

Best looking driving game by some margin - has bugger all to do with it being on PS3 but the fact the Polyphony are STILL seemingly in a league of their own when it comes to realistic colouring and lighting.

Arguably most people can match their modeling; it then comes down to the question of who can maintain that standard with the most efficient meshes - which I don't know - but does make me think of the Bizarre interview in EDGE where MSR was being developed on Dreamcast and kept slowing down horribly in a couple of places on the track and they could not understand why - then realised one of the artists hand modeled a bench that was used with a ridiculous amount of polygons.

It looks so beautiful does this game that the lack of anti-aliasing seems an almost criminal over sight - as without it, it still looks the best driving game ever - but with it it would look a world away from it's nearest rival.

Perfectionism ftw.

What about possibly the most important aspect, the AI?

Are we still racing against a procession of invincible cars following an invisible line?

If so, time to move on.

The fatal flaw with the GT games has always been the shockingly poor AI, enough to make it a Time Trial only game (although it has to be said, a very good Time Trial only game), no mention of that here in the preview though...? Sure it's less important with online play now, but it's got to be a consideration.

Off the top of my head, AI automatically smashes into you if you brake too hard into a corner, AI smashes into you if you are stopped in the middle of the track for some reason, AI has a wobbly if you aren't on the racing line (to avoid them smashing into you) then completely side-swipes you if you go anywhere near the racing line again. I swear it doesn't actually recognise that you are on the track at all.

If a relatively small developer like Simbin can create brilliant AI drivers then I can't see why PD can't, especially as they have spent years developing these games. Seeing an Elise outbrake itself going into a corner and then finally being able to get past after 3 laps of battling is just plain magical, I get the feeling GT will not even come close to that. Even stopping cars ploughing into you if you stop in the middle of the circuit would be a nice start, show us they have a bit of intelligence.

How it gets the title of 'the most advanced driving sim' I will never know, apart from looking nice and having lots of cars it fails in absolutely every other area compared to GTR2, for a start.

secombe: presumably something has changed now they're upto 16 cars on track. Though the worrying conclusion might be they've spent the extra CPU on more drivers instead of better drivers.

The lack of damage only exacerbates the problems of the brainless on-rails shunt-into-you-obliviously AI in the PS1 and PS2 games.

Nice article.

I have to say im a bit of a GT geek. I main reason i own a PS3 is for GT5. When that comes out - bang goes the social life.

Laterz

Shouldn't you have waited until, you know, it was out? Could save a bit of money that way too.

I am just not excited by this, and I was once hooked on Gran Turismo 3.

I mean, sure, it looks fantastic, but the price of that beauty is high, and the rewards best reaped in screenshots, and not gameplay, where the slightest collision with a barrier renders the appearence comical, like a bumper car going at 150mph. Polyphony specialise too much for my liking. Of course, for some they specialise in the important parts, and I hope such people thoroughly enjoy the game.

Gran Turismeh is one of the most boring racers ever made, meh.

This looks sexy.

The full game is one of the few things that might convince me to invest in a PS3.

thank fuck it's not like those PC anal-fests though. Proper driving simulation sucks any element of enjoyment out of a game. Fine for driving nerds with glasses too thick to get a drivers license, but I'll stick with actual gameplay thanks.

I was playing GTR2 (an 'anal-fest') just yesterday and I battled with a car over 4 or 5 laps before finally squeezing through on a slow corner. The sense of achievement of just overtaking a single car was immense, how is that not 'gameplay'? And all this on a track that wasn't even originally in the game (a user created one, so shows how clever the AI really is). Beats being shunted around by AI every single time.

I want to like GT (which is why I'm here, trying to get some thoughts on the AI) as it does a few things so well, but the actual driving has always let it down a lot, which is kind of important.

thank fuck it's not like those PC anal-fests though. Proper driving simulation sucks any element of enjoyment out of a game. Fine for driving nerds with glasses too thick to get a drivers license, but I'll stick with actual gameplay thanks.


Except that Simbin's games not only have a million options how accurate you want them to be as a sim, they also have a ton more "gameplay" due to the fact that they're all about racing aginst AI.

As much as I love Gran Turismo (and will end up buying a PS3 for it), it really is a lot more anal - meditative time trial driving and car collecting, so you're basically talking bullshit. :p

The AI is definitely better, in that it's no longer just following an invisible line on the track - it reacts to what you're doing in a much more dynamic and intelligent way. That said, it's very obviously a work in progress - another poster described it as being "aggressive", and while that's one way of putting it, I'm not sure that some of the weird ramming behaviour is actually intentional.

AI has always definitely been a black hole for GT - I think Prologue shows that they're actually trying to fix it this time, but decent AI for the other drivers is still in its infancy to some extent. Of course, the real fix for bad AI is obvious; race against other people, and that's the single biggest piece of progress in this game.

frod: totally agree, but that's actually not one of GT's strongest points these days. I wouldn't say PGR4 is the perfect driving game by any means, but it's really refreshing to have different gameplay types to mix things up, after the ceaseless grind of the GT series.

Fingers crossed Polyphony have woken up and actually changed the gameplay after all these years, rather than just the graphics. Asking 21 quid for a demo to find out is a disgrace though.

I guess Sony need something tangible to keep people buying PS3s though. "Look how amazing this game is! It'll actually be out one day, too!"

As much as I love Gran Turismo (and will end up buying a PS3 for it), it really is a lot more anal - meditative time trial driving and car collecting, so you're basically talking bullshit. :p

Precisely, GTR2 is actually about the driving, how is that anal?! It's also perfectly balanced for any level of user, I have the difficulty set to 115% (damage at 200%) which is just a tiny bit too good for me to cope with, that makes it so much fun as it's an achievement to work through the grid and a real buzz when you finally pass a certain car.

It looks undeniably sweet, and I'm sure it'll be like a gift straight from the hands of God for the GT fans out there when it finally gets released.
But nothing plays more like a total snorefest for me than the GT series of games, they're just soooo bloody dull. It's definitely one for the car nuts out there.

headbog, you do get a kick in writting "anything MS" and "flop" in the same phrase. Where the heck did you get that Forza 2 "flopped" ?

on-topic: it looks pretty good. not sure if I agree with the "pay for a demo" thingy, though.

I never enjoyed these kinda game though. PGR rock my boat, I dislike Forza 2(which apart form US budles flopped, so I'm happy...), too.

Seacombe, you appear to be under the impression that your comments are helping the case for GTR2. :).

What is wrong with Secombe's comment? That he enjoys diffculty that is perfectly tuned to his skill level? That he prefers driving games to be more about racing and less about resembling Pokemon?

The pattern of PS3 exclusives continues.

It seems PS3 devs are so concerned with producing something that looks great in stills that they completely forget to provide a game underneath the graphics.

What is on offer here in terms of actual gameplay is no longer meeting the standards set by other racing games, but because it looks good in stills it will be lapped up.

GT 1/2/3 were the undisputed kings of the road at the time, but the GT series has had it's day.

I bet you'll get car selection in 2D in a patch down the road...

Where are you lot getting demos with 5 courses (each with 2 alternate layouts) and 37 cars exactly? It's budget priced. Don't fancy it, don't buy it.

Forza 2 a flop? 3m+ in sales. Some from pack-ins, but a pack-in designed to help sales. That Wii Sports eh? What a flop that was in the US and Europe - take out pack-in sales and it sold bugger all ...

DrDamn, fun is where you find it, I reckon. And close racing is always good for adreneline-fueled sweaty-hands tense racing. That's one of the odd things about GT though, the freedom of vehicle choice and modification sometimes makes it hard to find a good fair race, where you don't either totally dominate, or get annihalated because you brought the wrong car. I know the later GTs made steps toward fixing that with the single-make and unmodified challenges etc., but you can still grind most of the game by just saving up and slapping massive turbos on everything.

why the fuck is this not on the Europe store? WHY!?!? THOSE FUCKING BASTARDS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

Seacombe, you appear to be under the impression that your comments are helping the case for GTR2. :)

I don't need to offer a case for GTR2, my point is that why can't PD just sort out the AI? They've had a decade to do it but appear to just concentrate on nice visuals and buying as many car licences as possible. If a small developer can get it almost spot-on within 2 releases, what the hell are PD doing?

I was under the impression people bought racing games to erm, race. Strange thought, I know.

London Track?

/asplodes

Peej

Heh, an overwhelmingly positive preview followed by a thread of almost entirely negative comments about features people haven't tried.

Having played the game lots I can say the AI is great to race against. It doesn't cope well with the player acting weird - if you stop on the racing line they'll just drive through you - but when you're racing properly they give up quite a fight and when you're in a pack of cars you can clearly see drivers jostling for position, drafting eachother, trying to outbreak eachother, sometimes running off road.

You really have to work hard to get past cars too - there may be no damage but there is a penalty system which temporarily slows you down for hitting cars or walls and is very effective at making you race properly.

Combine that with the best graphics I've seen in a game, and the perfect car handling I'm used to from Polyphony, and you have a fantastic game.