GamesIndustry.biz: Don't write off Sony

By Games Industry.biz Published 4 August, 2006

Even if it is an entertaining pastime.

Published as part of our sister-site GamesIndustry.biz' widely-read weekly newsletter, the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial is a weekly dissection of one of the issues weighing on the minds of the people at the top of the games business. It appears on Eurogamer a day after it goes out to GI.biz newsletter subscribers.

Pastime of the week for this particular part of the summer silly season - at least, among those who are quite finished scrambling to come to terms with the fact that E3 has gone to the great convention centre in the sky - seems to be coming up with new and interesting ways to cast doubt upon Sony's prospects in the next generation console race. Fanboy arguments supported by misconception and exaggeration abound - and that's just in the mainstream media and among analysts. What's going on on Internet forums makes even less sense.

Sony only has itself to blame for this, of course, and we can't say that our hearts are bleeding with sympathy for the Japanese giant. The arrogance displayed by SCE boss Ken Kutaragi and his US right hand man Kaz Hirai every time they open their mouths on the topic of the PS3 can be explained by their success in dominating the last generation with PS2, but that certainly doesn't justify it - and the genial manner of the firm's studio boss Phil Harrison can only go so far in terms of repairing the damage done to the firm's image by his overbearing bosses.

However, even if Sony is failing to endear itself to the media, to analysts or to gamers at the moment, that's no reason for the reality of the next generation console battle to be ignored. Judging from reports in the past fortnight, it would be easy for an outside observer to assume that it's all over already; the media paints a picture of Microsoft being victorious before the first shot is even fired, with Sony's overloaded battlecruiser set to sink before it even leaves port.

The fact is that there's little evidence to support that assertion. Even if Microsoft reaches its 10 million unit target by the end of the year - which does look likely - that's still not a lead that guarantees dominance in a market where the top-selling console last time (the PlayStation 2) sold over 100 million units. Both Sony and Nintendo are planning to ship their new consoles at such a rate that they could, in theory, have caught up or passed out Microsoft by the end of 2007; a scenario which is not exactly likely, admittedly, but certainly not impossible either.

Equally certain is that Sony's price point will dissuade some consumers - but a host of factors could conspire to outweigh that price point. If Sony has software with massive appeal to the mass market - something which Microsoft will still lack even coming into 2007, with the resolutely hardcore Gears of War being its key title for Christmas - or better again, if Blu-Ray really does prove to be as popular with consumers as movie bosses seem to believe, then the price point could prove inconsequential, at least for the first ten million units to pass through the channel.

This is quite an optimistic way of viewing Sony's chances, of course - but it's worth balancing out some of the pessimism which has been doing the rounds so often that it almost seems to be accepted as fact in some quarters. Much of this, it's clear, is influenced heavily by the American dominance of English-language media. Microsoft is so hugely successful in America relative to other territories that it can skew the global perspective; whereas the Xbox 360 has sold 3.3 million units in North America, it has sold only 1.3 million in Europe and just 400,000 elsewhere, making it fair to say that North America is still the only territory where the Xbox 360 has seen major success.

However, to listen to the media you would think that the success of the console has been replicated everywhere - which is simply not the case. North America is unquestionably a very important market, but Europe is expected to overtake it in size terms in the coming years, and despite the waning importance of Japan, it is still a key market - and other Asian territories are growing in importance. Microsoft is, in a sense, picking up the easiest consumers first. It is converting Xbox customers into Xbox 360 customers, and playing to a highly receptive home crowd - which suggests that the second ten million will be a lot more difficult than the first, because it will have to expand its reach not only demographically, but internationally.

That's where Sony already has the advantage; the PlayStation brand is synonymous with gaming around the world and across a huge demographic, not just in North America and with a narrow range of players. When reading the various reports which seem to imply that Sony has already failed or that victory is in the bag for Microsoft, it's important to remember that. Microsoft's use of first mover advantage has certainly been more impressive than many observers expected, but come November, the firm will still only have its home crowd in the bag. 2006, and even 2007, are only a warm-up - the battle for hearts and minds among casual gamers, international markets and wider demographics hasn't even begun yet.

For more views on the industry and to keep up to date with news relevant to the games business, read GamesIndustry.biz. You can sign up to the newsletter and receive the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial directly each Thursday afternoon.

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Comments (128) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Stormflood #1 6 years ago

    Yup.

  • tobi #2 6 years ago

    when the PS3 comes out its game over for MS!!!

  • SimonM7 #3 6 years ago

    Dammit, leave us alone with your realistic thinking! This is the window in which we can all dream of a better place, and actually half believe in that dream. It's like the Dreamcast's first year all over again, with a great lineup, great marketing, yummy online gaming and the thought of Sony just maaaaybeeee not killing everything around them.

    At least a shoddy launch lineup has put off my purchase of the Ps3 into 2007 and Gears release cementing the dream for a while longer. :o)

  • alpha-0ne #4 6 years ago

    GamesIndustry.biz are simply a marketing arms for sony, very little challenging questions ever when they interview them

  • El_MUERkO #5 6 years ago

    i dont know why Gi wasted their breathe (or bandwidth) on that article, the people writing off sony wont be swayed they're far to blinkered

  • jellyhead #6 6 years ago

    Sony do have several hurdles to overcome though, there's no denying that.
    well, we'll all just have to wait and see won't we.

  • jiveguy #7 6 years ago

    Two words: The Real Next Gen


    :\
    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 16:42

  • Dizzy #8 6 years ago

    We don't care about dominance... we care about a more even market share.

  • PlugMonkey #9 6 years ago

    At least a shoddy launch lineup has put off my purchase of the Ps3 into 2007 and Gears release cementing the dream for a while longer.

    Christ. It's a dark day for us all when our 'dream' is for the coporate, capitalist, money grubbing monster of Sony to be defeated by the cuddly, fun, champion-of-the-people that is Microsoft. Quite some improvement, that would be.

    PS3 needs some killer exclusives titles or it will go the way of the PSP. Undoubtably the nicer, shinier, cooler piece of kit, but ultimately the preserve of the gadget freaks.

  • holloguts #10 6 years ago

    Sony don't understand that it's core of customers are casual gamers. They won't buy PS3 at any price, because the majority of them cannot buy at any price. Blue Ray has no importance to anyone at the moment except tech freaks, the casual gamer wants 'cheap' gaming regardless of specs. It seems to me that it's not just a case of buying a PS3 or 360 anymore, but buying a 360 and Wii or just a PS3. Regardless of Sony's bullish attitude and indifference to it's 'loyal' customers they will be succesful, but they will also alienate a lot of customers who will shift platform based on price alone.

    I intend to buy a PS3 if it is succesful, but not at the launch price, ONLY when it drops below £250. If that means in five years, well, then I will have to decide if Microsofts new console would be a better choice. Microsoft have said the 360 will have a 5 year life. Sony say the PS3 will have a 10 year life.

    Sony need to look at the casual gamer, they are not as brand loyal as they believe. Certainly not outside of Japan. And if Microsoft do not gain the lions share of the next gen market, I have to say it now looks like Nintendo may take it with a not too next gen console.

    Sony are in for a far tougher battle than they are making out. It's ignorance is damaging it's sales already, before launch, couple that with developers holding back and showing they don't have confidence in the console makes the casual gamers look elsewhere.

    The PS3 will be a great console, and will be no more powerful than the 360 (regardles of hype from Sony and fanboys alike). I hope it is succesful, but I would prefer it to be because Sony see sense and lower it's price. Because when the hardcore gamers have all bought their PS3's, sales will drop (outside of Japan at least).

    Blue Ray and HD seem to be the main push for the PS3, but as with the 360, gamers are not rushing to buy HD TV's, so the Blue Ray and HD really don't have any importance. Casual gamers are not going to buy a PS3 (or 360) and then shell out another £800+ for HD TV. If it looks ok on a normal SD TV then they will be happy, and the 360 can do that at a cheaper price.

    As far as games go, I have not seen anything announced for the PS3 that could be classed as a killer game. There are mediocre titles and exclusive mediocre titles. But nothing BIG.

    This article was interesting, but it assumes too much by scratching the surface and too many IF's. Digging a little deeper and wider would show that there are too many IF's, and the exact opposite could be supposed or assumed.

    Another big factor of the 60 or 100 million of the sales of the PS2 (Sony's loyal customer base as it believes), is that the consoles were bought for children by parents. They are the main customers and the biggest bulk of customers. And Sony's high price point will make them look at the other 2 consoles available.

    Hard core gamers will que to get their hands on the PS3, but the main bulk of buyers will turn away at the first sight of the price tag.

  • Les #11 6 years ago

    Of course you shouldn't write off Sony already. Gaming media is rapidly approaching tabloid level journalism. Last year Sony ruled the world and it was game over for Microsoft. This year, all of a sudden, it’s entirely the opposite. And it’s not as if the 360 is selling that stellar. Even PS2 is still selling better.

    But let’s all just wait and see how the PS3 fares at launch and stop this silly speculation.

  • Les #12 6 years ago

    "Hard core gamers will que to get their hands on the PS3, but the main bulk of buyers will turn away at the first sight of the price tag."

    But the same goes for the 360. See above, PS2 still outsells it even though shortages are not an issue anymore (rather the opposite).

  • Chtulie #13 6 years ago

    Agree with the upthread mention that Sony's succesful because they captured the casual gamer. And the brand might have an advantage on their audience in the sense that it is familiar, it is not the gamer audience that has any sort of brand loyalty.
    The ps3 at the moment seems to be shedding 3rd party developers and exclusive franchises.
    Once the thing is out and it'll become apparent that the graphical diffirences between the 360 and ps3 is neglible (certainly not as big as say, between the x-box1 and ps2) but the price is double, the 360 will become a lot more interesting to the casual gamer. Esp. as it seems that the 360 is much more likely to be effectivly hacked/pirated (a big reason why the ps1 sold so well was because it's cd format allowed people to copy games very easily compared to all the other cartridge based games).

  • Tweakmonkey #14 6 years ago

    Good article.

  • holloguts #15 6 years ago

    "But the same goes for the 360. See above, PS2 still outsells it even though shortages are not an issue anymore (rather the opposite)."

    Agreed, the PS2 may still be selling over all other consoles (but I 'presume' more in Japan than Europe or North America). And this shows exactly what I mean by casual gamers not being pulled to a high priced console because of it's specs. As I said, the casual gamer wants cheap gaming, and high specs are not important. When these casual gamers do want to move to a next gen console, they are not even going to look at the high price PS3 when they can 'probably' buy 2 new next gen consoles for less, and as far as they are concerned, deliver the same quality games.

  • PlugMonkey #16 6 years ago

    But let’s all just wait and see how the PS3 fares at launch and stop this silly speculation.

    Yes! Let's all just sit here in silence and stare at the wall for 3 months!! Discussion about the future of the entire gaming landscape is just silly!!!

    Of course the PS2 is outselling the 360. It'll be outselling the PS3 as well soon. I don't have the figures at hand, but I'd be astonished if the PS1 didn't outsell the PS2 for a fair time after launch as well. For some reason, this time round, everyone seems to expect the generation switch to happen overnight, rather than over a couple of years - as has been the case with every single previous generation.

  • Les #17 6 years ago

    "Yes! Let's all just sit here in silence and stare at the wall for 3 months!! Discussion about the future of the entire gaming landscape is just silly!!!"

    Discussion is allright just as professional speculation is. But the gaming media know nothing of economics and fanboy discussions add even less value.

  • AcidSnake #18 6 years ago

    Nothing BIG?
    AT launch maybe...The PS3 has a few exclusive goodies...
    I care only about MGS4, but I'm sure there are others...
    (riiiidge...)

  • Knot #19 6 years ago

    Lol. On the contrary. Imo, GI editor Fahey is usually not fond of anything Sony.

    Even though it might be or might seem an arrogant attitude displayed by Sony,
    the same could be said about Nintendo at the end of the SNES era.

    The first paragraph of this article sounds indeed very biased against Sony.
    Indeed PS3 doesn't seem all too impressive atm, when compared with what
    Sony claims it will be, but there's no need to write it off THAT quickly and it
    serves nobody to talk about Sony as if it's 'dirt' all the time.

    Eurogamer's objective integrity should remain.

  • fxgogo #20 6 years ago

    well put.

  • Balסּr #21 6 years ago

    No matter how you tilt, rotate or spin it. £425 is still a bloody enormous hurdle for the masses to get over. Worse yet, the console is already running months late and we've still seen next to no gameplay footage to justify spending £425.

    By contrast the Wii60 bundle for less money and an incredibly strong line up of exclusive games has to be very, very compelling. Even if you rule out the 360 in Japan, the Wii will more than likely be in accordance with the DS vs PSP.

    Sony have no future in videogames, not whilst they're trying to sell us glorified, overpriced DVD players (PSX2).

    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 15:48

  • spongebob #22 6 years ago

    This was an excellent article. I wish there was more editorials like this in the games media.

    Truth is definitely at this point in time that no one knows what is going to happen. It's not over for anyone. And there's no winners yet either.

  • Les #23 6 years ago

    "No matter how you tilt, rotate or spin it. £425 is still a bloody enormous hurdle for the masses to get over."

    True, but I don't expect price to be a problem for the launch batch as there will not be enough consoles to fulfill demand (and I know this is speculation). And of course Sony shall not tell us what they will do with the price after the first batch to make sure as few as possible people postpone their purchase till after the first price drop.
    Edited by 3 at 04/08/06 @ 16:28

  • AcidSnake #24 6 years ago

    @spongebob
    Cue Atari coming out of left field and becoming the winner of this generation with their new console...

  • Knot #25 6 years ago

    ^ With their recent losses ? and having to sell certain licenses of theirs ?

    Atari ? keep on kidding yourself.

  • TripleSeven #26 6 years ago

    Seems to be a rather reasonable perspective. Oh, and I'm sure Sony will dominate this year's TGS (and Microsoft will announce a price drop for its 360).
    It's imo a good strategy to get rid of all the bad stuff at once (E3) and to rule shortly before the console's release.
    Ah, well we'll see. I'm definately sick of all that PS3 and Sony will fail comments.

  • AcidSnake #27 6 years ago

    Sorry, forgot to include sarcasm tags....
    :)
    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 17:03

  • #28 6 years ago

    No matter how you tilt, rotate or spin it. £425 is still a bloody enormous hurdle for the masses to get over. Worse yet, the console is already running months late and we've still seen next to no gameplay footage to justify spending £425.

    OK, this I don't understand. Little Johnny can't afford PS3, so decides to buy a 360 instead. For the masses, Playstation IS videogames.

    Why would the gaming "masses" looking to play MGS4 or VF5 or FF13 (staple PS franchises) suddenly decide to buy a 360 because they can't afford the PS3 to play said games. More likely they'll just decide to sit on the PS2 and wait for a PS3 price drop.

    By contrast the Wii60 bundle for less money and an incredibly strong line up of exclusive games has to be very, very compelling.

    That doesn't sound terribly convincing.

  • toy_brain #29 6 years ago

    Everyone loves to assume they know how 'the masses' will react to the upcoming console war.
    In truth they know jack shit, and are simply trying to apply their 'logic' in such a way as to show how the PS3/360/wii is the 'logical' choice.

    Consumers.... I mean average punters, dont nesecarily use the same 'logic' as internet fanboys and gaming nerds like us.
    For some, price is a big factor. For others its strength of brand, oh and these people ARE able to afford £425 - via the magic of credit cards :p

    So, anyone thinking of saying "When person X walks into a store and sees the PS3 for £425 and a 360+GoW for £350" just..... shut up please.
    Or actually go and ask one of these 'average punters'. has anyone actually bothered to do that?

  • Balסּr #30 6 years ago

    OK, this I don't understand. Little Johnny can't afford PS3, so decides to buy a 360 instead.

    Yes. Because the man at GAME said it's just as good, plays all the same games and cost £150 less. PlayStation may well be a big brand name, but only a fool would underestimate the Xbox brand or Microsoft's commitment to gaming.

    That doesn't sound terribly convincing.

    I'm curious to know what kind of gamer is it that doesn't find a great value console with some damn excellent looking titles terribly convincing? :/
    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 17:59

  • Vin #31 6 years ago

    "That's where Sony already has the advantage; the PlayStation brand is synonymous with gaming around the world and across a huge demographic, not just in North America and with a narrow range of player."

    Tell that to Nintendo 11 years ago.

  • inpHilltr8r #32 6 years ago

    That would be the Nintendo that's still the most profitable video games company on the planet? You know, the one with the fastest selling platform?

  • drumbaby #33 6 years ago

    Agreed, the PS2 may still be selling over all other consoles (but I 'presume' more in Japan than Europe or North America

    No, pretty much in all territories actually (home console wise)....

  • Rash' #34 6 years ago

    I'm shocked!! EG publishes, admittedly through a second source, a positive take on the PS3 situation. This was a refreshing read I must say. Having read so much bad press on Sony's plans for it's Playstation brand it's a nice change to have someone take the initiative and present a better outlook on the whole situation.

  • Rash' #35 6 years ago

    Balסּr: "By contrast the Wii60 bundle for less money and an incredibly strong line up of exclusive games has to be very, very compelling. Even if you rule out the 360 in Japan, the Wii will more than likely be in accordance with the DS vs PSP.

    Sony have no future in videogames, not whilst they're trying to sell us glorified, overpriced DVD players (PSX2)."

    Talk about an uneducated response. This is what I mean about the bad press Sony's been receiving. Yes some I can understand, but crap like this is just unjustified. I'd like this person to tell me how much the Wii will cost and where he has receive this questionable info from when I know for sure no confirmation has been made by Ninty. Gaming is what it is today because of Sony, so remarks like; "Sony have no future in videogames..." just makes me sick. It is this level of ignorance that has no future in videogames.

  • Lex_Luthor #36 6 years ago

    Good article.

    Don't really care about the launch or how much it sells or whatever. All I need to know is it's got a lot of nice looking games on the way, and that's good enough for me.

  • Balסּr #37 6 years ago

    Whilst it's not official, it is pretty much expected that the Wii will retail for $150 - $200, Nintendo themselves stated that it would not be over $250. Regardless of the price, you can't argue about the huge amount of exclusives for both the 360 and Wii which have already announced and then compare that to the amount of exclusive games announced for the PS3, and worse yet, even less of them shown to the public.

    Whilst all this may make you ill, I for one, am glad that such companies like Microsoft and Nintendo are bothering to cater for the price conscious consumer and are not attempting to exploit their fans loyalty by demanding exorbitant prices for a DVD player.

    As I said, as long as Sony are trying to flog that DVD player dressed up as a console, they'll have no future (See attach ratios for PSP / UMD vs DS for reference). To expand on that, should they decide to focus on the games again, by showing us some real games and showing us real reasons why those games require a machine that is £425, I'm sure Sony would not be shrouded by so much negativity.

  • azurelas_2 #38 6 years ago

    As a "AAA" title, methinks Resistance: Fall Of Man will turn quite a few heads^^...

    And what's so special about Gears of War? It's just a basic 3rd person shooter with good graphics.Revolutionary.

    So far, microsoft have yet to come up with one game that can convince me that can't be done on current-gen hardware.

  • Lex_Luthor #39 6 years ago

    "As a "AAA" title, methinks Resistance: Fall Of Man will turn quite a few heads^^..."

    Perhaps, but it looks like just the usual done to death FPS type of thing we've seen so many times in recent years. I'll wait to see how the final game looks, but right now, it merely looks pretty but unremarkable.

    "And what's so special about Gears of War? It's just a basic 3rd person shooter with good graphics.Revolutionary."

    Good graphics and hype are all some games need to sell themselves though, as we've sadly seen proven in the past.

  • Balסּr #40 6 years ago

    I thought I was watching a trailer for Resistance: Fall Of Man the other day, turns out it was just <a href=http://www.eurogamer.net/tv_video.php?playlist_id=100&g t;Black on the original Xbox. :/

  • spongebob #41 6 years ago

    What is it with grown up people bitching about the PS3 price point? Even damn kids are buying expensive mp3 players (iPod is not cheap), mobile phones and home theater crap. Or their parents are buying them.

    Compared to what kind of money people are pouring on all these commodities (esp. entertainment), I don't think that 650 euro price point is going to make a difference. Just think what the damn HDTVs cost? And they're selling like hotcakes.

    I've yet to hear what a regular consumer thinks of the price. Now, there's an idea for an article, Eurogamer/GamesIndustry.biz. Do a street gallup and ask the regular Joe/Jane who might not even know that PS3 is out in November what they think of the pricetag.

  • Rash' #42 6 years ago

    Balסּr: FYI the multimedia set top box was what both Sony and Microsoft were aiming for. However Microsoft realised that realistically they couldn't compete with the Playstation brand if they went head to head. So rather than wait for HD-DVD they opted against and launched ahead. So technically Micosoft's product is one born out of necessity than anything else.

    As for UMD, granted the format hasn't achieved it's projected success as a movie format, but as a portable games format few would argue with it, as games like Tekken will attest.

  • Les #43 6 years ago

    "To expand on that, should they decide to focus on the games again, by showing us some real games and showing us real reasons why those games require a machine that is £425, I'm sure Sony would not be shrouded by so much negativity."

    I'm sure Sony plans its press releases very carefully. Doing it right now doesn't make much sense strategically. In just one or two months the games will look even better than they do right now and there are no great 360 games coming in the near future that might convince gamers to buy the 360 afterall. You can only keep up the momentum of marketing hype for a limited amount of time, so they will make more and more noise as the launch date draws near.

    "Perhaps, but it looks like just the usual done to death FPS type of thing we've seen so many times in recent years."

    Well at least the setting of the story is more original than most recent FPSs save Half Life 2. A non-WWII fps that's not staring space marines in ridiculous suits actually seems quite refreshing...

    "Good graphics and hype are all some games need to sell themselves though, as we've sadly seen proven in the past."

    yeah, a certain fps sequel comes to mind...

  • Les #44 6 years ago

    "As for UMD, granted the format hasn't achieved it's projected success as a movie format"

    UMD was a really stupid idea from Sony. Making the lower quality version of a movie more expensive than the regular DVD one was sure to fail. They should offer some scheme that if you already own the DVD, you can get the UMD at cost or for a small fee. Or sell both in a single package at a small premium. I mean, you already paid for the IP of the movie, having to pay again and even more money to be able to watch it from a different format is crazy.

    They wouldn't make much money from the UMDs themselves but it might boost PSP sales.

  • toy_brain #45 6 years ago

    "(See attach ratios for PSP / UMD vs DS for reference)"

    Dumbest.
    Comment.
    Ever!

    How can you compare atach rates for PSP/UMD to DS? The DS does not have ANYTHING like an equivilent to UMD movies. So you are effectively trying to compare the PSP against...... nothing.
    Well done :rolls eyes:

    The fact that UMD movies have done poorly is a fair enough point, but they dont seem to have dampened PSP game sales any.

  • Rash' #46 6 years ago

    "UMD was a really stupid idea from Sony. Making the lower quality version of a movie more expensive than the regular DVD one was sure to fail. They should offer some scheme that if you already own the DVD, you can get the UMD at cost or for a small fee. Or sell both in a single package at a small premium. I mean, you already paid for the IP of the movie, having to pay again and even more money to be able to watch it from a different format is crazy."

    I don't think there's much wrong with the format for movies, but Sony seriously needs to re-evaluate how they intend for the format to re-establish it's early though limited success.

  • Balסּr #47 6 years ago

    Microsoft already have a pretty successful multimedia platform it's called a Windows Media Centre PC. The 360 is certainly not aiming to become the Media Centre, its focus has always been on gaming first and foremost. The incredibly high attach rates of the 360 reflect this, as does the backing from all publishers, with not one of the worlds major publishers snubbing next-gen Xbox 360 development.

    The PS3 however is being snubbed by a few of the big publishers already, and like the PSP, the platform is concentrating on being a multimedia device rather than a full-fledged gaming system. On the PSP platform, already UMD movies have failed, a precursor to Blu-ray some believe, and the attach rates for UMD games are disappointing too. You could attribute that to the fact that because the device isn't squarely focused on gaming people aren't buying it for gaming. If that trend continues with he PS3, which too, is more focused on the multimedia, then Microsoft could gain a lot more momentum and gather even further support for their system as their attach rate continues to appeal to publishers as well as the very high returns Xbox Live Marketplace is providing publishers.

    EDIT: I was taking about each of the platforms software attach rates, PSP Games / UMD Movies vs DS games. My apologies if that wasn't clear.
    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 22:34

  • Shawnzee #48 6 years ago

    Too late, Ive already written it off, 600 dollar PoS with a crappy controller.

  • Rash' #49 6 years ago

    Balסּr, Windows media centre PC isn't a product comparable to to the vision foreseen for the multimedia set top box. Respectively; one is a general purpose system, while the other is an all in one accessible entertainment device. Microsoft and Sony were both aware of this as they aimed for the latter. The Seattle giant's change in strategy I've already explained. Microsoft's new add-on strategy further backs my claims. If as you say the 360 was all about games then MS would employ a similar strategy to Ninty and not concern itself with the market Sony are aiming for with Blu-ray. Fact of the matter is their's is a strategy compromised by pressure. Now they have to resolve the issues they weren't able to address during the creation of the product through the use of add-ons, which history tells us is a risky strategy.

  • Les #50 6 years ago

    "The 360 is certainly not aiming to become the Media Centre, its focus has always been on gaming first and foremost."

    Yeah, that's why you can connect iPods to it and MS is stressing the HD-DVD add-on constantly...

    Microsoft cares sh*t about gaming. All they want is total domination for its windows os. Which, as a company they are entitled to strive for, but we the consumers pay the price. There aren't many products that have an 85%+ margin like windows has. And while right now those excess profits fund the 360 and keep its price down, they will stop doing so once Sony and Nintendo are destroyed.

  • Vin #51 6 years ago

    "That would be the Nintendo that's still the most profitable video games company on the planet? You know, the one with the fastest selling platform?"

    Who gives a shit?

    Nintendo were the market LEADERS, until some shitty ham-fisted choices were made - 50 quid games? On a fuckin' CARTRIDGE? Sod off Nintendo.

  • Rash' #52 6 years ago

    Les, Thank you. I've picked up on this and have to admitt I'm increasingly concerned about the possible dominate force Microsoft's business strategy would make it. Live Anywhere for example would encourage up take of it's OS from PC's to Mobile phones to gaming consoles (more specifically their console). This would mean they would own the much of the OS in many of our electronic devices, which I don't see as being good for a competitive enviroment. I accept that they are entitled to take their business in whatever direction they see fit, but I can't see them having this much controller over my gaming activities being a good thing. I have for instance noted that Live is a business venture publishers have very little control over and so when products go online publishers lose control of their commodaties. MS have a reputation for being overbearing and muscling out the competition, so I hope they don't as you put it "destroy" Sony and Ninty.

    Edit: If anything it was this aspect of their presentation at E3 which seriously put me off their product.
    Edited by 1 at 04/08/06 @ 23:18

  • Kbone28 #53 6 years ago

    Excellent article - I do agree its not game over for Sony yet....
    But they have done nothing to promote the Ps3 in a good light so far...
    Their arrogance astounds me, paying thru the nose for an unwanted drive format - ridiculous pricing and stating MS have copied them - "hello"?

    I think Sony could have walked this gen, right of the back of the Ps2 - but not anymore.

    IF wii doesnt kill of the Ps3's launch - the 360 will.

  • toy_brain #54 6 years ago

    "EDIT: I was taking about each of the platforms software attach rates, PSP Games / UMD Movies vs DS games. My apologies if that wasn't clear."

    Ahh right, fair enough then.
    And because I think its important to have such claims backed up by actual figures, a spot of digging uncoverd a page from my favorate tardfest site pcvsconsole.com
    [link url=http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=18305 ]http://fo rum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread....[/link]
    (Trust me, the place is a constant train-wreck, it worse than this place on full fanboy-mode)

    Anyway, the attach rates are roughly 2 games per PSP sold, and roughly 3.5 games for every DS sold as a worldwide overview. Which proves your point (curses :p ).
    Most likely due to the strength of Nintendos own properties and the PSP's lack of any totally unique/compelling software other than GTA:LCS.
    Lots of good stuff on the PSP, but no totally massive "OMFG must buy!!" titles.

    Do Sony need their own Mario/Sonic I wonder? They managed fine without one before.......

  • soanso #55 6 years ago

    Sony find themselves in the same position Nintendo found themself in around 1994.
    Nintendo had domited videogames and were the company who made videogames a viable business option again after Atari and the others crashed and burned.
    Nintendo were videogames.
    At least to your average joe in middle america.
    Now Playstation is in that position.

    Nintendo managed to follow up the NES successfully and created a new market for themself in the Gameboy. Now everybody knows how they blew it with the N64 .
    (70 quid for Turok!!.ANNNND you expect me to buy a memory card too!!)
    If they'd made it run off cd and had been more friendly to third party developers then I think the whole history of videogames would be differnt.
    Sony it seems are in that arrogant swaggering mode now.
    the original Playstation did well for 3 reasons in my opinion.
    1 Marketing.
    Not just about making it 'cool' but about getting the fans of the other consoles to jump ship and also selling consoles to people who hadn't bought one before.
    2 Software
    They had tons of software. A massive choice for consumers and let's face it most of it was utter crap but in amongst that you had Gran Turismo, MGS, Pro Evo and such like. Games that changed and defined genres.
    3 Pricing
    They launched at £100 less than their nearest rival (Sega Saturn) and offered a more powerful machine. I never felt that the PS was out of my price range and I was a poor student at the time.

    The PS2 kept the momentum going and did eventually have the software to back it up. The early games were terrible though. I think having a console that could play dvds right at the time there was a boom in dvd sales taking off can't be overlooked.
    It's something that just isn't happening right now. There is no boom in HD tvs or HD movies. It may come but it's not happening yet.

    I think Sony have lost the plot a bit of late. I've never been sure what they want the psp to be and I'm not sure what they want the PS3 to be. I don't think brand loyalty counts for shit these days. Not when you have a price tag almost double of your rivals.
    I can really see only one winner out of this round of the console war.
    Nintendo.
    Not for a second do I think that Wii will be the most selling console, No don't be daft. Things are fuelled so much by casual gamers now and casual gamers go for blandness, not novelty or imagination.
    What I do think is that Wii will make a lot of money or at worst it won't lose a lot of money. PS3 is going to hurt Sony. I bet there's many folk like me, played games for many years, maybe would be termed 'hardcore', buy the occasional Japanese import and yet with the PS3, I can't buy one at that price.
    I don't have those kinds of funds.
    I can only look at Wii and 360 when it gets a price cut.
    Edited by 1 at 05/08/06 @ 01:48

  • Scimarad #56 6 years ago

    Well said, EG.

  • spongebob #57 6 years ago

    One thing I don't get is why PS3 doesn't have UMD bay? It would have been made a big difference for UMD format.

  • smelly #58 6 years ago

    Well if anyone GENUINELY thought otherwise, then they were being stupid.

    There's to many idiotic stupid fanboy 'tards in the world who'll rush out and buy the ps3 even if it was a rebadged gizmondo selling for £20000. If sony TELLS them its the bestest thing they can buy.. then it MUST be.. so off they trot on release day, regardless of whether there's anyhting worthwhile playing on the thing.

    No accounting for people's stupidity and willingness to be drawn in by marketting.. Look how popular westlife, sclub, steps, etc were...

  • Les #59 6 years ago

    "Their arrogance astounds me, paying thru the nose for an unwanted drive format - ridiculous pricing and stating MS have copied them - "hello"?"

    But they did. Or do you think PS1 and PS2 are rip-offs of xbox?! And Sony's online plans with PS2 triggered MS's venture into the console business as an online console with multi-media capabilities was considered a serious threat to its PC business.

    If I'm not mistaken, FF XXI was online before there was an Xbox Live. That Sony in the end didn't invest too much in the online aspect of PS2 was a business decision. The mass market wasn't interested in online play and broadband didn't take off as fast as was expected, so there was no money in it. MS could afford to put hundreds of millions of dollars into Xbox Live as they've got enough spare cash from ripping off PC buyers for over 20 years.

    On a side note, I think the direction Nintendo is taking with Wii online is a very good one. Playing online with friends is way better than playing Halo2 against American trash talking 13-year olds... Online gaming Nintendo-style might take network gaming to the masses, although for the hardcore minority will probably like Xbox Live better.
    Edited by 1 at 05/08/06 @ 10:44

  • DCrider360 #60 6 years ago

    even a blind man can easily tell SONY'S in BIG TROUBLE!!!
    it's so plain to see!!

    how can JAPANS no.1 company be releasing a (NEXT-GEN)games console, with more u.s parts in it than a Ford Mustang!?!?!?

    NVIDIA(gpu) and IBM(cpu/cell)will be keeping FONY afloat this gen, JUST!!!!

    And, ALL YOU SONY LOYALISTS KNOW IT!!!
    hehe

    shogun

  • Vin #61 6 years ago

    Soanso knows what's up.

    Close the thread, the man wins.

  • Hughes. #62 6 years ago

    Sensible stuff, which makes a nice change.

  • smelly #63 6 years ago

    DCrider.. I'm a nintendo fan.. and even i know that's not gonna happen no matter how often you wish it...

  • Carrybagma #64 6 years ago

    /applauds soanso

    The only thing I'm looking forward to about the PS3 launch is (hopefully) picking up a dirt-cheap PS2 and some of those great games I've missed out on so far - Katamari, SotC, GT3 etc.

    PS. In case anyone has forgotten/didn't know: Balor is a notoriou XBOX Xealot/Troll and is related (somehow) to the excellent (and barking mad) Xavior. You'll not get anywhere trying to suggest Sony isn't all bad!

  • bunnymc #65 6 years ago

    I pre ordered my PS3 2 days ago and i'm gonna pick it up on release day.
    And by the way i agree that controller is a bit of a mistake
    but let few month pass, they gonna release dualshock PS3, i'm sure of it.
    Here it will cost $999 Australian dollars, and games i gues around 110 or 130 dollars

  • azurelas_2 #66 6 years ago

    @ Bunnymc:


    Welcome to the club! I've also preordered a PS3, and the store is giving a free game with every preorder. And if I do regret my decision, there's always the e-bay option :)

    But I do see that microsoft are (sadly) going to come pretty close this generation, but Sony will prevail! (face it, they made videogames what it is today, and brought out possibly THE most influential and controversial game ever (GTA3).
    Edited by 1 at 06/08/06 @ 14:24

  • cartoonsmart #67 6 years ago

    CHECK THIS OUT!!!
    Edited by 1 at 06/08/06 @ 14:33

  • RandolphScott #68 6 years ago

    @ holloguts

    " Sony don't understand that it's core of customers are casual gamers."

    That is an hilarious way to start an epic post.
    Edited by 1 at 06/08/06 @ 14:52

  • mike_mgoblue #69 6 years ago

    Here are some very interesting information facts that you will probably appreciate if you are actually concerned about which gaming platform will end up receiving the most support from Japanese developers, and which system will receive the most RPG's. We know for sure that the Wii already has a Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy game on the way. There is currently no plan to bring Dragon Quest to the PS3, though.

    Rumors of an online Dragon Quest Xbox 360 game have been around for a while, though. There are also rumors that a similar Final Fantasy game for the Xbox 360 will be released when the Wii version is released. Take a look at some of this information. I looked up these websites because some of the other people asked me to include hyperlinks from now on. So, take a look:

    Microsoft Forecasts 15 Million Xbox 360 Systems Sold by Mid 2007: [link url=http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;1289307124;fp; 2;fpid;1
    ]http://ww w.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;12...[/link]

    The Future of Japanese Gaming: http://xb ox360.ign.com/articles/715/7153...

    Microsoft Teams with Tri-Ace: Square Enix development team working on new exclusive Xbox 360 RPG: http://xb ox360.ign.com/articles/700/7003...

    The State of Xbox 360 RPGs: http://xb ox360.ign.com/articles/716/7164...

    Metal Gear Solid 4 will come to Xbox 360 after a very short timed exclusivity on PS3: http://news .spong.com/article/9417?cb=528

    Japan Mag (Famitsu) Sizes Up the PS3 vs the Wii: http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...

    Japanese Developers thoughts on PS3: 63% of Japanese developers say Sonys sales goals are unreachable: http://ww w.playfeed.com/index.php/playfe...

    PS3 Complexity Could Significantly Hinder Yields: http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...

    Playstation 3 a Pain to Develop for: Much of the Power cannot be used for Gaming: http://www.gam ersreports.com/news/3005

    PS3 Offers only Half the Polygon Performance of Xbox 360: http://ww w.totalvideogames.com/news/PS3_...

    PS3 market share not important, says Sony: Likely not what shareholders wanted to hear: http://ww w.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/a...

    SNK says PS2 is good enough for now: No PS3 games developed until 2009-2010: http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...

    Square Enix considering multiplatform strategy: Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for all systems: http://www. gamespot.com/news/6130333.html

    Third Parties Wary of PS3 Price: Ubisoft and Sega concerned with $600 price tag: http://xb ox360.1up.com/do/newsStory?Disp...

    Ubisoft Boss already wants PS3 price cut and is not optimistic of sales success: http://www.ga mersreports.com/news/3048/
    Edited by 2 at 07/08/06 @ 23:15

  • mike_mgoblue #70 6 years ago

    People, lets look at this sales scenario from a simple mathematical point of view:

    1. How many PS2 or PSOne systems were sold for a price of $600. Answer: 0

    2. How many PS2 or PSOne systems were sold for a price of $500. Answer: 0

    3. How many PS2 or PSOne systems were sold for a price of $400. Answer: 0

    4. How many PS2 or PSOne systems were sold for a price of $299: Answer: Several million worldwide, almost as many as the Xbox 360 has achieved worldwide at the price of $399.

    5. How many PS2 or PSOne systems were sold for a price of $199 or lower: Answer: MAJORITY!!!!!!!

    Note: The PS2 and the PSOne experienced the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their sales success at a price of $199 or lower! The Playstation 3 may NEVER reach that price point!!! It doesn't take a scientist to realize that the Playstation 3 is NEVER going to achieve similar sales, due to this simple mathematical fact!!!

    When the PSOne and PS2 were lowered from $299 to $199, it opened up sales to an entirely new market of consumers worldwide--particularly in Europe. The next price drop saw both the PSOne and the PS2 move from a price of $199 to $149--a price that we can safely say the PS3 will ABSOLUTELY NEVER be sold at in ANY market!!! This, once again, opened up the sales of the PSOne and PS2 to an entireley new market of consumers worldwide. The market was further opened up when the price of the PS2 and PSOne were lowered from $149 to $129.

    People, let's be realistic. The Playstation 3 is NEVER going to reach those price points. People realized this after the 2006 E3 trade show; that is the reason why Sony lost over $3 billion in stock value over that weekend. The Xbox 360 is scheduled to have converted from .90nm factory production technology to .65nm factory production technology by 2007, which means we may see a $100 price drop for the Xbox 360 by 2007. When that happens, Microsoft is very likely to achieve their worldwide sales goal of 15 Million Xbox 360 systems sold to consumers by Mid-2007.

    Microsoft Forecasts 15 Million Xbox 360 Systems Sold by Mid 2007: http://ww w.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;12...
    Edited by 3 at 07/08/06 @ 07:51

  • mike_mgoblue #71 6 years ago

    Here is some useful information that talks about HD-DVD vs Blu-ray. When you take the time to read some of these articles, you will FULLY realize why HD-DVD is considered superior.

    Here are hyperlinks that talk about the superiority of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray:

    http://bl ogs.zdnet.com/carroll/index.php...

    http://ww w.microsoft.com/windows/windows...

    http://ww w.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...

    http://ww w.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product....

    http://ww w.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/pro...sp...

    http://ww w.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c...io...

    http://ww w.rcaaudiovideo.com/Cultur...vP...

    http://sc obleizer.wordpress.com/2006/07/...

    http://ww w.hometheaterblog.com/hometheat...

    http://ww w.dvdtown.com/article/toshibavs...

    http://ww w.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_...

    http://li ve.xbox.com/en-US/profile/profi...

    http://ww w.xbox.com/en-US/promotions/liv...

    http://ww w.xbox.com/en-US/community/news...

    http://ca talog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...

    http://ww w.turtlebeach.com/site/products...
    Edited by 1 at 06/08/06 @ 21:51

  • spongebob #72 6 years ago

    What do you mean that no PS2 or PSOne was sold for $600-$400? So you're saying that when PS2 launched and it was sold for about $500-$400 (if correctly converted to match todays monetary value) nobody bought it? This would mean the first PS2s were sold only a few years ago.

    Right....

  • Lemon Project #73 6 years ago

    mike_mgoblue I hope you're on MS's payroll. Would hate to think you do all that for free.

  • xaviertooth #74 6 years ago

    "champion-of-the-people that is Microsoft" ...

    hey, who the hell are you? bill gates?

  • mike_mgoblue #75 6 years ago

    RE: Spongebob

    When I say that no PS2 or PSOne systems were sold at a price of $600, $500, or $400, I am simply making it clear that the PS3 is launching at a price that is literally twice as much as what the PS2 and PSOne launched for.

    Consider this information:

    The PSOne launched for a price of $299. Approximately five years later, the PS2 launched for a price of $299. Approximately five years later, the Core Xbox 360 system launched for $299 while the premium Xbox 360 launched for a price of $399. My point is that all of these prices are very similar, even though there is a ten year difference in the period of time that they are occuring in. The Playstation 3 is obviously very different; it costs up to $600!!!

    Another fundamental difference is that the PSOne used standard CD-ROM technology that allowed economies of scale to be a significant factor in price reduction. The same factor played a role with the PS2 DVD-ROM price reductions. In terms of economy of scale price reduction with the DVD-ROM format, the Xbox 360 will benefit even more than the PS2 did, simply because the popularity of the DVD format is much higher now than it was at the launch of the PS2. But look at the PS3; the Blu-ray format has just been released, and it costs $1,000. The sales of Blu-ray are very disappointing so far. The Blu-ray is in the middle of a format war with HD-DVD; Blu-ray is definitely not a fully supported format like DVD was when the PS2 launched. This obviously means that the Playstation 3 will not receive economy of scale price reduction benefits in the same way that the PSOne or PS2 did; therefore, the Playstation 3 will not see similar price reductions.

    All of these factors are very important to consider when analyzing the Playstation 3. When you look at things from a logical point of view based on previous sales success and the simple math calculations that go along with how many systems can potentially be sold at the prices of $599, $499, $399, $299, $199, $149, and $129, you will clearly see that the three key prices are $199, $149, and $129. Those three prices are where the PSOne and PS2 achieved the overwhelming majority of their sales success. The Playstation 3 will never reach those prices, which means that it will never reach those levels of sales success.

    Spongebob, I hope this helped to clear up the message previously left. I thank you for taking the time to respond.

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgoblue

  • mike_mgoblue #76 6 years ago

    RE: Lemon Project

    Trust me, I wish I was on the payrole of a nice corporation like Microsoft. I thank you for the nice compliment. Your statement makes me think the work I do in my spare time is very professional.

    If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, please note that I would be interested in working for you. I have a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration and also Project and Process Management. I graduated Summa Cum Laude. An email address you can reach me at is mike_mgobue@yahoo.com

  • toy_brain #77 6 years ago

    Note to readers:
    I last saw Mike_mgoblue trolling 1up.com, attempting to put a negative spin on the announcement that you will be able to transfer saves from PS1/PS2 memory cards onto the PS3.

    Pure Microsoft fanboy whose posts I recomend taking with a pinch of salt - and a large one at that.

  • HarryPalmer #78 6 years ago

    " RE: Lemon Project

    Trust me, I wish I was on the payrole of a nice corporation like Microsoft. I thank you for the nice compliment. Your statement makes me think the work I do in my spare time is very professional.

    If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, please note that I would be interested in working for you. I have a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration and also Project and Process Management. I graduated Summa Cum Laude. An email address you can reach me at is mike_mgobue@yahoo.com"

    Twat.

  • LPXO #79 6 years ago

    "I graduated Summa Cum Laude"

    Does that mean you graduated with cum in your mouth? Sounds like you're taking the same approach to finding a job.

  • Blerk #80 6 years ago

    The PS3 however is being snubbed by a few of the big publishers already

    Please list the 'big publishers' who are snubbing the PS3. Thanks.

  • Carrybagma #81 6 years ago

    This is shaping up to be a great thread.

    Balor and Blerk in the same thread. A fresh Microsoft loon. I just hope Captain Nippon is still about.

  • Rash' #82 6 years ago

    mike_mgoblue,

    Why is it nessessary for you to bore us with links that are of no consequence? Everybody (and their dog) have bitched about the PS3, offering various educated responses as to why the system will fail. The point of the article (I'm surprised it comes from EG) is to present a different perspective on the whole discussion, because (and let me frank here) reading for the umpteenth time the same old arguements for why system is likely not to succeed is just plain boring. You're offering nothing to the topic. And by presenting various links all you're doing is regurgitating points any well informed reader of this topic would be aware of. Give it a rest. What your typing isn't interesting.

  • Knot #83 6 years ago

    Mike_MGOBLUE should get his facts straight.

    The PAL PS2 launched across Europe for € 522. That's 674 US Dollars. It wasn't a problem even with the well received Sega DC in place already.

    Many of your earlier links/arguments about PS3 ease of development, polygon power and such have already been debunked longtime ago.

    Admittedly ; Sony's public/press situation at this moment, isn't great, to put it mildly.
    However, you can expect them to reveal more of their trumpcards within the next 6 to 12 months.
    Edited by 2 at 07/08/06 @ 17:53

  • spongebob #84 6 years ago

    I don't understand how everyone (even journos) are missing the EXACT point Knot made here. PAL PS2 cost nearly the same amount of money when it launched as PS3 will. I have no idea how the value of money has changed but I'd bet even after calculating that in the equation the difference between PS2 and PS3 launch prices are not THAT big.

    I wish the launch date was tomorrow. We could at least start arguing about some real stuff instead of crap like this. Goshhhhh.
    Edited by 1 at 07/08/06 @ 15:36

  • Knot #85 6 years ago

    ^ Well,

    Back in November of 2000 I bought my PS2 for 1149 Dfl which equals 522 Euros

    The 60Gb / HDMI PS3 will be 599 Euros
    The 20Gb / non HDMI PS3 will be 499 Euros

    This makes the HDMI PS3 77 Euros more expensive ; of course, the PS2 didn't even
    feature a built in HD and it only came with standard Euro AV cables.
    Edited by 1 at 07/08/06 @ 17:52

  • mike_mgoblue #86 6 years ago

    RE: Knot

    My facts are based on the North American market territory. From the point of view of some of the other market territories in the world, I can easily understand how you would personally feel that I had my "facts" mixed up. I am glad I was able to clear things up for you.

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgoblue

  • Lex_Luthor #87 6 years ago

    "Note to readers:
    I last saw Mike_mgoblue trolling 1up.com, attempting to put a negative spin on the announcement that you will be able to transfer saves from PS1/PS2 memory cards onto the PS3."

    Seconded. I've also seen him on the troll over on 1up(and on here) plenty of times now.

    "Pure Microsoft fanboy whose posts I recomend taking with a pinch of salt - and a large one at that."

    Or just hit ignore. Best way.

  • Balסּr #88 6 years ago

    I do believe both THQ and Atari have snubbed the PS3 launch, with neither company committing any titles. No problem!

    To be fair, though. I'm sure that if the PS3 is ever affordable enough to muster up a decent install base and has a decent enough software attach rate, both companies will try and port some old 360 games to PS3. :p

  • mike_mgoblue #89 6 years ago

    RE: frod

    Apparently, you are talking about me when you say, "he quoted a Spong article," in reference to my detailed reply to spongebob. I do not know what sort of reputation anyone on this website has, because I am not a judgmental person like that. I am not sure how I should respond to your reply. Nevertheless, I will thank you for taking the time to read my message and reply.

    And thanks for the compliment about my writing style...and I think I should thank you for calling me "obsessive," too. Sooooo, Thanks...I think. :-)

    Take care, buddy,

    mike_mgoblue
    Edited by 1 at 07/08/06 @ 21:43

  • mike_mgoblue #90 6 years ago

    RE: Lex_Luthor:
    RE: toy_brain:

    I simply state the facts about the videogame industry. I state the facts about the Xbox 360, the PS3, and the Wii. I am not a "fanboy" of any kind. Virtually all of the things I have reported on this website are obviously not based on my opinion; they are based on facts that other websites, magazines, and industry analysts have reported on. There are two ways for you to see this for yourself:

    First, just look at all of the hyperlinks with the Titles of the Articles to see for yourself that the videogame industry is not very optimistic that Sony will succed in regard to high-sales and overall market share--even Sony's executives told their shareholders that they will not hold the largest percentage of market share when this console generation is over; I provided an article with that information.

    Second, look at all of the mathematical numbers I provided that are based on history facts associated with quantity of hardware units sold associated with monetary cost of the hardware. The information I provided CLEARLY showed that both the PSOne and the PS2 achieved the overwhelming majority of their sales when the systems were priced lower than $199. This is not my opinion; it is a numerical fact that cannot be disputed.

    Lex_Luthor & toy_brain, I admit that I did state, "it doesn't take a scientist to realize that the Playstation 3 will never achieve high sales like the PSOne or the PS2, simply because it will never reach the price points of $199, $149, or $129." Although my statement of "it doesn't take a scientist" is based on my opinion, the rest of the statement is a fact. In all likelihood, the PS3 will never see a price point of $199, and it will absolutely never see a price point of $149 or $129. This obviously means that the Playstation 3 will not be available to low-cost markets that the PS2 and PSOne enjoyed a huge level of success. Obviously, the Playstation 3 will not sell nearly as many systems as the PS2 or PSOne. Remember, this is not my opinion, it is information based on numerical facts.

    Lex_Luthor & toy_brain, it is also a fact that when the PSOne and Sega Saturn were launched, the CD-ROM format was an agreed upon industry standard that allowed economies of scale to come into play. When the PS2 was launched the DVD format was the fully agreed upon industry standard for an incredibly large number of uses, which allowed economies of scale price reductions to come into play for the PS2. When the Xbox 360 was released, the DVD format had reached an all-time high in terms of economy of scale cost reduction. But, the PS3 is using Blu-ray technology, which is definitely not an agreed upon format like DVD was when the PS2 launched. The Blu-ray format is currently in a format war with HD-DVD. At this point in time, the HD-DVD is outselling Blu-ray by a very large ratio according to the numeric sales figures. The Blu-ray format is definitely not going to help Sony reduce the cost of the Playstation 3 the way that CD-ROM and DVD did for PSOne and PS2. Lex_Luthor, this information is not based on my opinion or the opinion of any other "fanboy." This informaton is based on very common industry facts that everyone, including people reading this for the first time, need to be aware of.

    Lex_Luthor & toy_brain, I would also like to point out that I should not be blamed for being a Microsoft "fanboy," simply because I mentioned that Microsoft achieved their sales goal. Microsoft originally said that their goal was to sell 4.5 - 5 Million systems to consumers worldwide by the end of June, 2006. This goal was achieved when Microsoft sold over 5 Million systems. I was not the one who said this--Microsoft was--I simply posted a link to the new sales goals for the next year through June, 2007. Microsoft is currently on pace in current market territories and the opening of new territories, which is why their next sales goal is to reach 10 Million systems sold by the Winter of 2006. Sales to customers are so high for the Xbox 360 that Microsoft has actually set a goal of 15 Million systems sold by June, 2007. Microsoft has currently met their first sales goal, even though they had production problems associated with rushing the product to market due to its high demand. Now that production problems have been solved and newer markets such as China, India, and South Korea are going to be a factor, Microsoft is on pace to reach their 15 Million sales goal by June, 2007. Again, this is not my opinion. This information is based on factual informaton found at many different websites, magazines, newspapers, and many other sources of information. Here is just one example: [link url=http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;1289307124;fp; 2;fpid;1
    ]http://ww w.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;12...[/link]

    Lex_Luthor & toy_brain, it is definitely true that I similar things about the videogame industry on several different websites, just like the way you and I speak the same language when we talk to different people. Lex_Luthor, if you talked to five different people, wouldn't you tell all of them that 2+2=4. Well, so do I; it just so happens that I was talking about the videogame industry on several different websites. Please do not say bad things about me for talking on different websites.

    Lex_Luthor & toy_brain, in regards to your comments about me putting a negative spin on the attachment that will need to be purchased in order for PS2 and PSOne owners to transfer saved files from those systems to the Playstation 3, I was simply voicing my opinion that time. I personally do not think it is a good idea for Sony to claim that there system is backward compatible, when, in reality, it isn't. The fact of the matter is that Sony has changed their story about the Playstaton 3 being backward compatible FOUR times! This is a lot, even for Sony!!! The bottom line is that until the Playstation 3 is released, we won't know what the system is truly capable of doing in terms of backward compatibility. In my personal opinion, which has studied the videogame industry for over two decades, I believe that the Playstation 3 will definitely not be backward compatible in the way that the PS2 was. The fact that consumers will need to spend money to purchase a seperate attachment in order to transfers saves is a strong suggestion that Playstaton 3 backward compatibility is going to be very different from the nice way that PS2 was backward compatible.

    Lex_Luthor, if you do not want to read the fact based and unbiased information that I present, please feel welcomed to ignore me. However, I am asking you to avoid telling others to "ignore" me. Freedom of speech is very important in life, so I encourage you to voice your opinions. But please do not ignore a person for presenting information based on facts.

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgobue
    Edited by 1 at 07/08/06 @ 23:27

  • mike_mgoblue #91 6 years ago

    RE: frod,

    I apologize for the name that is not spelled correctly. I will go back and edit it. I type quite fast, so I do sometimes make mistakes that I don't recognize. Thank you for saying that my writing style is enjoyable. You just earned a lot of brownie points with me...if I was a used car salesmen, you would be getting a new car for a low price. :-)

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgoblue

  • mike_mgoblue #92 6 years ago

    RE: Rash',

    Thank you for taking the time to read what I had to say, and thank you for replying. I realize that you are apparently familiar with the videogame industry, but you also need to realize that not everyone is. You could simply say that I was trying to point out only the facts in a summarized way.

    Take care,

    mike_mgoblue

  • mike_mgoblue #93 6 years ago

    RE: Blerk,

    There are actually quite a few videogame publishers who are "snubbing," as you say, the PS3. SNK Playmore is probably the newest one to openly voice negative opinions about the Playstation 3. SNK Playmore recently said that they would not consider releasing Playstation 3 games until 2009 at the earliest, but probably 2010. SNK made it clear that the reason for this is because the development costs associated with the Playstation 3 are much higher than on other systems, which means that the financial risk of supporting the system is too high, especially with all of the negative publicity that the Playstation 3 is currently receiving. SNK Playmore said that they are going to primarily support the Playstation 2, Wii, Xbox 360 and other platforms that have been established with the combination of a large market and lower development costs.

    You can read what Japanese Developers think about the Playstation 3 in this nicely written article: [link url=http://www.playfeed .com/index.php/playfeed/article/japanese-developers-thoughts -ps3-06300147/
    ]http://ww w.playfeed.com/index.php/playfe...[/link]

    You can also read what SNK Playmore had to say about the Playstation 3 at this website: [link url=http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php ?option=com_content&task=view&id=3555&Itemid=2
    ]http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...[/link]

    Like other people on this website have pointed out, the Playstation 3 is very difficult for Developers in any market to develop games on. The Playstation 3 is powerful from a "calculator" point of view called Floating Point math operations; however that is very difficult to apply in a way that can be used in videogames. Take a look at this unbiased website that points this out: [link url= http://consoles.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/725/
    ]http://co nsoles.gwn.com/articles/article...[/link]

    Another website that agrees with the previous article is: [link url=htt p://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
    ]http://xb ox360.ign.com/articles/617/6179...[/link]


    Although Konami has not "officially" said anything about Metal Gear Solid 4 being released for the Xbox 360, it is a certaintly that this game will only see a brief period of exclusivity on the Playstaton 3. The Xbox 360 is a very large game market--too large to ignore. This doesn't really matter in the short-term, though, because Metal Gear Solid 4 won't be available until the fall of 2007.

    Metal Gear Solid 4 will come to Xbox 360 after a very short timed exclusivity on PS3: <a href="http://news .spong.com/article/9417?cb=528
    ">http://news .spong.com/article/9417?cb=528
    </a>

    Square Enix used to make sure that their biggest games were released for only one system. This is not the case anymore. Final Fantasy XI has already been released for the Xbox 360. A new Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicles is on the way for the Wii. A Dragon Quest is nearly complete for the Wii. There is no rumor of a Dragon Quest PS3 game of any kind; however there are rumors of an online Dragon Quest game for the Xbox 360, as well as at least one version of Final Fantasy that will be shown at the Tokyo Game Show for the Xbox 360. This is bad news for Sony, because Square Enix used to give the majority of their support to the Playstation. But now, the Wii and the Xbox 360 are receiving a larger number of Square Enix games than the Playstation 3.

    Square Enix considering multiplatform strategy: Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for all systems: http://www. gamespot.com/news/6130333.html

    Ubisoft and Sega are two other companies that currently offer support for the Playstation 3, but they have made it clear that this support will definitely be reduced if the Playstation 3 market is not large enough in the second generation. Large companies like Sega and Ubisoft can make a lot of money on the PS3 when it launches, simply because there won't be much competition. However, as more games are released over time, the larger companies are taking a greater fiancial risk with the PS3 due to the guaranteed high-development costs, guaranteed greater competition, but potential for a sales market that is much lower than expected...especially when you consider all of the negative publicity that the Playstation 3 has been getting over the last several months. Here are websites that talk about Ubisoft and Sega.

    Third Parties Wary of PS3 Price: Ubisoft and Sega concerned with $600 price tag: [link url=http://xbox360.1up.com/do/newsStory?Dispatch=Dis play&cId=3151936
    ]http://xb ox360.1up.com/do/newsStory?Disp...[/link]


    Ubisoft Boss already wants PS3 price cut and is not optimistic of sales success: [link url=http://www.ga mersreports.com/news/3048/
    ]http://www.ga mersreports.com/news/3048/
    [/link]

    All of the recent articles about how THQ has cancelled WWE Smackdown vs Raw 2007 due to the fact that the PS3 is so much more difficult to develop for have been interpreted by some people as a slap in the face to Sony. The same can be said with other games that were listed as games supposedly going to be exclusive to the PS3, but have since been announced for the Xbox 360 or cancelled for the Playstation 3.

    For example, Fight Night Round 3 by EA was originally announced as only a PS3 game; it is out NOW for the Xbox 360. The Darkness was originally supposed to be only available for PS3, but it can be seen on Xbox Live for the Xbox 360 NOW. Unreal Tournament 2007, designed by Epic and published by Midway was originally listed as only a PS3 game; it even appeared on the cover of many game magazines and was scheduled to launch with the PS3. However, at the 2006 E3, Unreal Tournament was officially confirmed for the Xbox 360 and the PC. And just recently, the PS3 version was delayed until sometime in 2007!!!

    Obviously, these conditions are not good for Sony or the Playstation 3. The Playstation 3 is definitely not receiving the type of third-party love that the original PSOne did. Game developers across the world seem to agree on three things: (1) The Xbox 360 is the best platform and the easiest to develop for; it has the proper balance of cost and ease of development. (2) The Wii development costs are by far the lowest of all three sytems--mainly due to the fact the games graphics are not displayed in high-definition and the sound is not output in true 5.1. The Wii uses a VERY inexpensive $1,700 development kit nearly identical to the Gamecube development kit. This allows developers to apply lessons learned from the Gamecube to the Wii. (3) The Playstation 3 is by far the most difficult system to develop for, and the Playstation 3 has by far the highest development costs with the highest risks of development problems.

    Blerk, I hope I helped answer your question about developers "snubbing" the Playstation 3, and the reasons why they have chosen to do so.

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgoblue

    Edited by 2 at 07/08/06 @ 23:11

  • mike_mgoblue #94 6 years ago

    RE: frod,

    LOL, buddy, I am from North America...the United States...I am pretty sure that "Snub" is actually a foreign term that I am not 100% familiar with. It seems like you know a lot about it, though, LOL. Just teasing. At least your definition of what Snub means gave a better explanation.

    Take care, bud,

    mike_mgoblue

  • mike_mgoblue #95 6 years ago

    RE: LPXO,

    The definition of Summa Cum Laude is, "With Highest Honors."

    For the official record, I do not appreciate being talked to with rude disrespect like you responded to me. I will not submit an official complaint this time, but I will give you an official warning that it you do that again, I will bring this to the attention of the website. This website is nicely constructed by professionals, and for the most part, it is used by professional people who have an interest in the videogame industry and videogames in general. Please try to live up to the ethical standards currently in place on this website.

    mike_mgoblue
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/06 @ 04:27

  • Knot #96 6 years ago

    Ow boy, and I thought i had some time on my hands....

    Mike,

    There're still alot of points why PS3 is unlikely to completely fail :

    - the (as of yet unrevealed) games. Dev teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd party ; very possible trump cards like Sony's Team Ico, Konami's Team Silent, Sony Liverpool, Katamari Damaci Creator etc.

    All developers who helped shape the PS2 library, significantly and which gathered a loyal fanbase. Those devs won't abandon Sony and the fans won't abandon their gaming preferences.

    - ease of development ; right in line with PS2's EE , VU 0 & 1 coding, but testimonials already speak of 'much easier' and 'now with solid libraries'. The somewhat negative reactions came from Japanese 2nd rate devs. The past 5 years devs like Namco, Atlus etc. have lost somewhat of their gloss ; ever saw a From Software game with an impressive ingame engine ?

    - MGS4. Kojima Production is great ; but they suck at creating decent ports. Technically the MGS2 Substance on Xbox was subpar. They actually emulated PS2 for the rain on the tankerdeck. Talk about 'efficient coding'....
    The port probably cost them more than it made them money ; pooooor sales.
    Therefor I'd say ; XB360 MGS4 chances are nil.

    - power ; PS3 gpu speculation has been debunked already. raw polycount output says nothing. Fact : PS2 can put out ALOT more unlit/unshaded polygons than Xbox. On paper, PS2 makes mincedmeat out of Xbox polygon count - but NOT in real games. I may have an Ati X1900XTX in my pc, but don't underestimate that Nvidia RSX chip in PS3. It's customized to work in collaboration with Cell ; it's not a PC architecture.

    Like i said before ; at this moment there are extremely few games to 'prove' PS3's good points. But don't 'worry' ; those games WILL come when it's crunchtime in console land.
    Edited by 2 at 08/08/06 @ 01:15

  • 2099net #97 6 years ago

    --- MGS4. Kojima Production is great ; but they suck at creating decent ports. Technically the MGS2 Substance on Xbox was subpar. They actually emulated PS2 for the rain on the tankerdeck. Talk about 'efficient coding'.... ---

    Efficient coding or not. Surely if it's "emulating" a same-gen console, and still actually running and playing the game, it means the Xbox was "more powerful"

    *Ducks*

    In all seriousness, I think this demonstrates two important issues we should all keep in mind:

    1) Hardware specs mean bugger all if people can't be bothered to code their code right
    2) When people say "X cannot be done on Y" they're normally wrong. A true coder will find a way.

    So enjoy your console, which ever one you choose.

  • Talha #98 6 years ago

    Oh EG, how dare you publish a pro-Sony article? You suck.

  • BadBoyBonner #99 6 years ago

    As food for thought on Carmack’s insistence on the ease of developing for the 360; why then is every game that uses the Doom3 engine so god damn awful that my old ATI 9800Pro an AthlonXP 3200 eat it for breakfast in the frame rate stakes? Suppossedly the frame buffer antialiasing is all but free on the 360 so taking that aside – the jerky mess which any of the games using the doom 3 engine are horrid and even have low res textures! Where is this 8 x hardware compression on the fly for textures?

    In fact the difference, between Quake 4 (a native Xbox360) title and doom 3 (Xbox 1 title) running under emulation on 360 is negligible! Please please increase the quality someone!

    Hopefully Carmack is putting his money where his mouth is and spending it on incorporating multi-thread rendering to the engine and better texture handling.

  • Blerk #100 6 years ago

    I do believe both THQ and Atari have snubbed the PS3 launch, with neither company committing any titles. No problem!

    That's not what you originally said though, is it Balor?

    Both have games in development for the PS3 (Frontlines: Fuel of War and Alone in the Dark to give an example from each), just none available for launch. Neither company had titles ready for the 360 launch either. Hardly a 'snub' is it?

    And mike_mgoblue, thanks for typing all that but I really can't be arsed to read it. Cheers.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/06 @ 09:21

  • spongebob #101 6 years ago

    Reading mike_mgoblue's comments on PS3 is like trying to consider Marx' comments on communism objective and neutral.

    mike_mgoblue: With so much time on your hands, why don't you do something creative with it? Like code a game for Xbox. It certainly would benefit from some new games. On the other hand PS2 is still going to get some really awesome games like God of War 2. Now, what does that say about the commitment of devs for Sony system?

  • Knot #102 6 years ago

    2099Net,

    Ehm ..., have you played MGS2 Substance on Xbox ? The part where it emulates PS2 has horrible framerate. Konami emulated PS2 because they couldn't get the rain particle system right for Xbox. So, they just emulated this particular piece and called it a day.

    But anyway... this says something about Konami as a developer on Xbox, when it comes to Xbox being more powerfull on paper than PS2.

    Whichever console is more powerfull, next gen, still remains to be seen.

  • Yaz #103 6 years ago

    I read this article on Gamesindustry.biz, and I noticed it is written by Rob Fahey. Interesting, given that Rob (and Tom) had effectively written off the 360 after E3 last year (believing the PS3 was twice as powerful and Killzone was realtime. ;)).

    E3 Opinion: Xbox 360 is outgunned and outclassed by Sony's PS3:
    [link url=http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8834
    ]http://ww w.gamesindustry.biz/content_pag...[/link]

    Quote: "When the Sony conference kicked off, we expected to see something "a bit better" than Xbox, technologically. We didn't expect to have our most fundamental beliefs about what next-generation games will be capable of changed. That, however, is exactly what happened."

    Hmmm, the phrase "Hook, line and sinker" come's to mind. ;)

    PS3 vs Xbox 360 - Tom's take
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59133 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    Quote: "Frankly, going on what I've seen so far, I'm not even convinced Xbox 360 and PS3 are the same generation."

    All of this and more led to claims of bias, which prompted the following defence;

    Editorial: Reaction, Not Bias
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59180 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    Hmmm.

    Yeh, I know it's all in the past now, but at the time, it was very disappointing and sad to see how easily they took the bait, allowing themselves to be taken in by PR spin and hype.

    Still, atleast this recent article seems to show that a few leasons have been learned since then. :)

  • Shinji #104 6 years ago

    Depends how you define "taking the bait," really. I actually stand by a number of the assertions I made at the time - taking that E3 in isolation, Sony showed off stuff that looked genuinely next-gen, Microsoft did not. Were we excessively credulous about PS3? I don't believe so - excessively enthusiastic, perhaps, but in the face of what was a pretty abysmal E3 showing for their competitor, I don't think that's exactly surprising.

    By the way, the Killzone target footage was something that I personally never cited as being real-time, but I do continue to believe that games on the PS3 will meet - and exceed - that graphical standard, just as games on the PS2 have far exceeded the standard set by the Final Fantasy VIII tech demo which was used at the unveiling of the platform. At the time that, too, was derided as being impossible to do in real-time. Six months later we were looking at MGS2. Whether the PS3 will turn out significantly more powerful than the Xbox 360 overall, in the long term, is debatable - right now there's just no straight answer. As such, I'll conceed that reprinting Sony's performance claims was premature - but I think we've more than compensated for that with our coverage of the debate which followed those claims.

    Now, if you want to judge my professional competence and my capacity to comment rationally on the market situation based entirely on a comment piece written two years ago without any of the access to information about the rival platforms that we now have, that's fine. It's no skin off my nose. But I do invite you to come back in a couple of years when both systems have been on the market for a long time and developers are fully up and running on both - then we can have a proper retrospective on who was right and wrong. Right now the only jury in session is the jury of Internet Forum Opinion, and I don't consider that a very reliable legal system - I'm far more open to being proved wrong by the jury of Hindsight :)

  • Yaz #105 6 years ago

    "taking that E3 in isolation, Sony showed off stuff that looked genuinely next-gen, Microsoft did not."

    I'm not saying Sony did not have a great showing. With MS failing to impress by showing most games on alpha devkits compared to real time demos of games like Fight Night 3 and The Getaway for the PS3, Sony had a more impressive E3 almost by default. However, the highlights for Sony's console, which really seperated it from the competition, were mostly 'slight of hand', such as Killzone (which some assumed to be real time without question), and the specs which were presented in such a way to make the PS3 appear twice as powerful overall. I'm sorry you feel you've been attacked, but I said this at the time and I feel the same way about it today (even more so after Sony's showing at E3 this year). :|

    So yes, the enthusiasm was high after the conference for many, but imo, that enthusiasm effected the reporting here in a rather negative way. Even the report of the PS3 specs reflected this attitude with the headline "PlayStation 3 - The Real Next Generation". Hmmm.

    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59106 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    "By the way, the Killzone target footage was something that I personally never cited as being real-time, but I do continue to believe that games on the PS3 will meet - and exceed - that graphical standard"

    Overall perhaps, but not with several models like those seen in the trailer, consisting of millions of polygons each (i.e. the original workstation models, rather than the lower polygon normal-mapped versions which will be used in game). Even if the PS3 had the power, it doesn't have the memory for those Killzone models. I've always said Guerilla may be able to achieve the 'look and feel' of that trailer in general, just not with the polygon levels seen (one of numerous clues to the trailer being pre-rendered). Hence it may look just as good in motion from an aesthetic point of view, but in certain areas (such as model detail), it will not be as good technically.

    "just as games on the PS2 have far exceeded the standard set by the Final Fantasy VIII tech demo which was used at the unveiling of the platform. At the time that, too, was derided as being impossible to do in real-time."

    I think you exagerate the point a little. I followed the PS2 closely back then too, and ALL of the PS2 demos shown during the unveiling (including Final Fantasy) were running in realtime on the PS2 console! There were NO pre-rendered videos shown like the target renders seen today. Therefore if a demo was running in real time on the PS2 console back in March 1999, then it would be possible for developers to achieve that level at some time in the future on the console, either during cutscenes or during gameplay (or even both). Sure many argued over what the PS2 could and couldn't do over the years, but the fact remains that all those demos were running in realtime on the PS2 during it's unveiling in 1999 (including the famous 'Ridge Racer Girl' demo).

    In constrast, target renders are not real time demos, therefore they can not be thought of in the same way. All you can hope is that the developers create a render that accurately portraits what the final game will look like.

    "Now, if you want to judge my professional competence and my capacity to comment rationally on the market situation based entirely on a comment piece written two years ago without any of the access to information about the rival platforms that we now have, that's fine. It's no skin off my nose."

    2 years? It's only 1 year and 3 months since E3 2005, but perhaps I'm being picky. ;)

    Anyway, sorry you feel offended, but I'm simply repeating the same views I expressed back then, especially with regards to Killzone and the PS3 specs. Hence it's not hindsight on my part, it's more of a reminder (although some may say it's a case of "see, I told you so" ;)).

    "But I do invite you to come back in a couple of years when both systems have been on the market for a long time and developers are fully up and running on both - then we can have a proper retrospective on who was right and wrong."

    I look forward to it, so let's continue this discussion in a few years.

    Don't forget now! ;) :D

    EDIT: Spelling and Grammar
    Edited by 6 at 09/08/06 @ 09:10

  • mike_mgoblue #106 6 years ago

    RE: BadBoyBonner,

    One of the things that you should know is that Microsoft's first generation Xbox 360 games did not use as much of the systems potential as what the first generation of Playstation 3 games will use, even though the PS3 is considered much more difficult to develop for.

    The reason for this is because the Playstation 3 is still not released, but the final development kits for the PS3 have just recently been shipped to developers. This is the reason why Epic's Mark Rein said Sony is in a better position now than Microsoft was when the Xbox 360 launched. The Xbox 360 launch was rushed for Christmas, which meant all of the development kits used to develop the Xbox 360 launch games were only using a very small percentage of the power potentially available on the Xbox 360.

    One of the things I read about is the fact that the Xbox 360 has a tri-core CPU. Each CPU core has dual threads--for a total of six threads. The first generation Xbox 360 development kits only allowed developers to use ONE thread on only ONE of the three CPU cores!!! This means that first generation Xbox 360 games using those first generation development kits litererally had access to only one-sixth of the total General Purpose CPU power that is potentially available on the Xbox 360.

    Second Generation games like Gears of War are MUCH better than the first generation of Xbox 360 games! But we need to remember that some of the games being released in the second generation still started to be programmed while in the first generation. This means that we will probably not see the TRUE maximum power of what the Xbox 360 is capable of until sometime in 2007 when the third-generation of games appears. Third-generation Xbox 360 games obviously experienced their total development time from beginning to end in the hands of developers who had 100% finished versions of development kits. By then, the development kits will actually have been updated several times.

    We need to remember that it is a BIG...make that HUGE advantage for the Xbox 360 that it will always be one generation ahead of the Playstation 3. The Independent Playstation Magazine showed side-by-side comparisons of second-generation Xbox 360 games next to first-generation Playstation 3 games...and it was amazing when the Independent Playstation Magazine acknowledged that, "The Playstation 3 will not have the best graphics when it launches, thanks to second-generation Xbox 360 games like Gears of War."

    General Purpose CPU power is one of the primary factors when it comes to doing things like increasing the frame-rates of games and using things like Anti-Aliasing and V-Sync. The fact that the Xbox 360 only had access to one of the six threads available, due to the rushed development kits, is the reason why there were some problems with slowdown in certain situations where there were a lot of enemies on screen in certain games like Quake 4. One of the things that will probably make you happy is that the new Quake Wars: Enemy Territory is going to be released for the Xbox 360, and it will have access to a level of General Purpose CPU power that Quake 4 didn't.

    By the way: One of the games I am looking forward to more than any other is a game that John Carmack is developing as an exclusive title for the Xbox 360. Although the game does not have an official name yet, I am sure you will know what it is when I mention the name of the working-title. This game is currently called, "Return to Castle Wolfenstein." Id software has officially announced that the Xbox 360 will be the "primary" development platform for the game, but it will eventually be released for the PC. There are rumors that say a Windows Vista based PC will be able to play with Xbox 360 users!!! I am SOOOOO excited about that!!!

  • Balסּr #107 6 years ago

    Blerk, THQ had committed 2 exclusive games for the 360 launch period, The Outfit made it and Saints Row was delayed. Atari had Test Drive Unlimited for the launch period. However this game was delayed, too!

    In the case of the PS3, both companies snubbed it, committing zero games for the launch period. Even Eurogamer covered the news, probably provoked them to write a piece such as this! I mean, Eurogamer writing an article titled 'Don't write off Sony' says much!
    Edited by 1 at 09/08/06 @ 06:59

  • LittleTofu #108 6 years ago

    Question: Name one game for girls on the 360? :/

  • Blerk #109 6 years ago

    The Outfit was actually released on March 17th 2006, Balor. Just how long was the 360 'launch period'?

    So prior to the 360 launch, THQ announced two titles but actually had none for launch, and Atari announced one title and actually had none for launch. Prior to the PS3 launch, THQ announced two titles but will have none, Atari announced one title and will have none.

    So yeah, that looks to me like a definite 'snub'. Man, they hate that PS3.

  • mike_mgoblue #110 6 years ago

    RE: LittleTofu,

    In response to you question asking for what Xbox 360 are generally targeted towards the market of "girls," I would say that can be answered from several different points of view. However, each person has their own opinion. In fact, a game that I might think is targeted towards a girl may not be one that girls enjoy. Neverthess, I will try to tell you some games that I have talked with girls using Xbox Live.

    1. Perfect Dark Zero seems to be a game that girls enjoy, because the star of the game is Joanna Dark--a female. This is an excellent game, it has excellent online cooperation in terms of playing with one friend on the single player missions, and you can play with up to 32 people at the same time in specially designed maps.

    2. Tomb Raider is very nice Xbox 360 game. The graphics of the Xbox 360 look significantly better than the other console versions, especially when you are using an HDTV. This game also uses a female--Lara Croft--as its star.

    3. The Xbox 360 Premium version comes with an Xbox Live Arcade puzzle game called Hexic. This game is automatically stored on the hard drive when you buy the system, so you won't need to download anything. This game is made by the creator of Tetris, and it is very fun to play. I have not met a girl who doesn't like Hexic.

    4. The Tetris Worlds game for the original Xbox can be played on the Xbox 360. I have never met anyone who didn't like Tetris.

    5. Ridge Racer 6 on the Xbox 360 is a fun game. When I play it online, I have talked to quite a few girls that are good at it. Graphically, Ridge Racer looks good, but not quite as good as games like Project Gotham Racing 3 or Burnout: Revenge. If it makes you feel better, I have seen Ridge Racer 7 on the Playstation 3, and they use the same graphics engine, which causes the two games to look nearly identical.

    6. I know quite a few girls who like racing simulation games. Project Gotham Racing 3 is one of the best ever made on any system. After Gran Turismo on the Playstation 3 disappointed the audience at the 2006 E3, it was generally acknowledge that Project Gotham Racing 3 was the king of this genre. I have talked to quite a few girls online while playing this game.

    7. There is a game called Geometry Wars: Evolved that a lot of girls I know love to play. I think Geometry Wars: Evolved can be described as, "Space Invaders on technological steroids." This game sounds good and looks good...but most of all, it is super FUN!!!

    8. I think that game I have talked to more females than any other on Xbox Live would have to be UNO. This game is FUN!!!

    9. On Xbox Live Arcade, there was a legendary game called Frogger...and also Pac Man. Those games are very fun. And Street Fighter 2 was also released on Xbox Live Arcade...I have met a lot of girls at arcades while playing these games. Girls can actually get quite good at these games!!!

    10. I always hear girls say, "I love to watch scary movies." I think the reason they say that is because they just like to pretend they are scared so they can have a reason to cuddle up to their boyfriend! Well, if girls like scary movies, then it makes sense that they would like scary videogames. Dead Rising has now been released for the Xbox 360; it just came out today. It is a VERY fun game!

    Well, I gave you ten games that would help you out. These are 10 great games that you will be virtually guaranteed to enjoy if you are a female who can play an Xbox 360. And I bet you would like a very highly rated game that everyone thinks is fun; it is called, "Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis." That game can pretty much be described as the funnest Ping Pong game ever made, and it has great graphics and sound, too! The vibrating features of the controller also play a key role in helping you to analyze where the ball is going to be placed when you hit it with varying levels of force. Trust me, that is a fun game! I hope I helped you out.

    Sincerely,

    mike_mgoblue
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/06 @ 03:37

  • LittleTofu #111 6 years ago

    Thanks Mike, I like some of those games, but my friends don't, I'm after a game that I can play with my friends who don't do/play or have any interest as of yet in games, especially the familiar genres you have listed, as for running around a shopping mall smashing people to bits, come on, what are you crazy? ... change that to going to the mall to go shopping.

    I'm looking for a next-gen game for girls that is exclusive to the 360, a lifestyle game, as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't any.

    Sony's SingStar for PS3 with eyetoy is what I'm talking about ... that game rocks on the PS2 and the upcoming PS3 version looks the bomb.

    LT

  • HarryPalmer #112 6 years ago

    why cant we all just get along? i crave world peace.

    If you want an xbox 360, get one. I've been tempted, but there's not one game that i want yet; that will change once mass effect, gow and bioshock come out, possibly. But i will wait to see what the PS3 is like first; Assassins Creed (may come out on 360) and heavenly sword look incredibly for relatively early releases, so i'll see.

    mike_mgoblue; i'm sorry about my post in your direction, i can see you take pride in the 360 - why? you cant really PROVE anything until they are both sitting side by side on the shelves. If the PS3 bombs and SONY burn in hell i really dont care, i'll just get a 360.

    I want the PS3 to succeed because i believe the PS2 is responsible for some truelly landmark games that filled me with a joy the xbox or gamecube (which i have) never matched. Also it means there will be more choice for people, which is good.

    Im off back to my work.

    PS. sorry this is all a bit late and irrelevent at this time. Bye!
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/06 @ 09:20

  • AOFanboi #113 6 years ago

    <em>One thing I don't get is why PS3 doesn't have UMD bay? It would have been made a big difference for UMD format.</em>

    No point in having an UMD bay when the PS3 owner's mandatory PSP has one, and some upcoming firmware upgrade probably will implement streaming over WiiFi for those foolish enough to own more UMDs than the freebie Spiderman 2 and whatever cheap disks you can buy from "firesales" as shops dump their stock (a local store in Oslo dumped a bunch of titles at around £4-5 a pop).

    <em>Question: Name one game for girls on the 360? :/</em>

    DOA Extreme 2, when it launches. After all, who other than girls would want to play a game full of voluptuous bikini-clad women 18-25 years of age? :p

    More seriously, probably Viva Piñata or Kameo could be of interest - the former hasn't launched yet though.

    I'll be getting a PS3 to replace my really old PS2 and play my existing PS2 titles and Mobile Suit Gundam on it. The 360 is not an option for me.

  • spongebob #114 6 years ago

    I wonder, if PS3 bombs and Sony sinks what would this mean exactly for Xbox 360 fanboys? How would it change their gaming? Sure, it'd be fun for a month to scream at various forums how they were right but after that?

    So, what's the catch in trying to prove that PS3 sucks and X360 rules? I really don't get it.

  • mike_mgoblue #115 6 years ago

    AOFanboi,

    You did a nice job of mentioning some Xbox 360 games that females might enjoy. I had thought of each of those games after I wrote the article, and I was going to mention them. I am happy to see that you wrote the information before I did. Kameo is an excellent game that appears exclusively on the Xbox 360. It is one of the highest rates games available for any system, and it is definitely a game that I would think girls and kids would enjoy. I also think adults appreciate what a high-quality game Kameo: Elements of Power is...after all, just look at the high ratings.


    LittleTofu, I didn't know that I was allowed to recommend games for the Xbox 360 that have not yet been released. This places the Xbox 360 at a MAJOR advantage over the Playstation 3, because the Xbox 360 has far more third party support than the Playstation 3, especially when it comes to games targetting the mass market of worlwide consumers (which includes girls, like you). AOFanboi hit the nail directly on the head when he mentioned the high-quality game called Viva Piniata from Rare. Viva Piniata is a game with amazing graphics; it is based on the new TV series that will be making its debut this fall. Trust me, when your friends see all of the hype that Viva Piniata continues to receive on all of the websites and all of the magazines, they will DEFINITELY want an Xbox 360!!!

    LittleTofu, I think it is great that you want a sequal for the PS3 based on PS2 and PSOne games; that is really the whole point of the PS3--it seems to primarily focus on sequals rather than new games like the Xbox 360. The bad thing for the PS3 is that many of these sequals don't have graphics that much better than the PS2. Some of the examples I am referring to from the 2006 E3, which caused people to be VERY disappointed in the performance of the PS3, are: Tekken 6, Ridge Racer 7, and Gran Turismo 5. I mean, come on...sequals should only last so far when the gameplay remains virtually identical each time. Ridge Racer 6 on the Xbox 360 was the worst selling Xbox 360 game in North America for a reason; it received reviews saying that the graphics weren't as good as other Xbox 360 games--the graphics of Ridge Racer 6 were similar in quality to other games on the original Xbox. Well, Ridge Racer 7 on the PS2 uses the exact same graphics engine as Ridge Racer 6, which is why the games are virtually identical. The Playstation 3 has a condition called "sequalitas."

    If you and your friends already have SingStar 2, then why spend $600 for a new version that doesn't place a priority on graphics anyways. Also, LittleTofu, the Nintendo Wii will probably have more "children" and "girl" games than any other system. If you can afford to purchase a PS3, a camera, and a Blu-ray game, which will probably be priced at $79 or higher, then you might be better off buying both a Wii and an Xbox 360. Heck, if you can afford a PS3, you might want to consider purchasing all three systems.

    AOFanboi, you seem to place quite a bit of importance on backward compatability. But there are some things you really should know. First, in order to transfer your saved information from the PS2 to your PS3, you will need to purchase an expensive attachment, even for the $599 version. Otherwise, you will need to start from scratch on your PS2 and PSOne games. Second, you PS2 and PSOne controllers will not work with the PS3; there won't be rumbling in the games anymore. Third, Sony has changed their story FOUR TIMES about how the PS3 will be backward compatable. There is an excellent chance that the PS3 will only be compatable with 50%-85% of games available. Sony's announcements really don't count for much--remember that!!! So don't believe what you hear about backward compatability with the PS3...especially when each time one of their lies was exposed, they just changed their story to a new method of backward compatability.

    Personally, if I had a choice of buying a completely new system like the Wii or the Xbox 360, and keeping my PS2 in order to play all my PS2 and PSOne games, I would buy the Wii or Xbox 360. The reason for this is because the Wii is backward compatable with Gamecube games, and the Xbox 360 is backward compatable with over 275 Xbox games. So, from your point of view, AOFanboi, you would be purchasing two systems in one.

  • Les #116 6 years ago

    Wow, never seen anyone write so much nonsense in a single post...

  • Lex_Luthor #117 6 years ago

    Jesus, this still going on?

  • Edward_Gamer #118 6 years ago

    I have learned a lot in these articles. I had been reading a lot on the Internet in regards to negative things being written about the Playstation 3, but now I know why these things are being written. If long and detailed communications between people did not occur, then I would not have learned all of these facts.

    Also, my girlfriend appreciated hearing the advice given relating to games for girls; she has purchased several of the recommended games, and we have to say that Mike and AOFanboi did an excellent job recommending quality Xbox 360 software that seems to be targetting towards younger gamers and females. My girlfriend is really looking forward to Viva Piniata for the Xbox 360, and we are in love with Kameo: Elements of Power.

  • LittleTofu #119 6 years ago

    Not really into kameo, Viva Pinata looks cool though, I'm looking forward to that one. But still really excited about Singstar on PS3, why do I want this when I have it on PS2 already?? ... HD VIDEOS and lots of them to buy from their online shop! ... the choice is amazing, my friends can choose what track they want from the shop, download and play ... that's soooo cool, Singstar parties every weekend with a different line up of tracks yay! Extreme volleyball 2 looks exciting, any game that has beaches and shops to buy stuff is for me! I played the 1st one on xbox and loved it, shopping, volleyball, casino at night, spend, spend, spend!
    i'll be buying a wii when it comes out too, though my flat isn't big enough to be jumping around the living room like a dislocated rabbit :D

  • brim4brim #120 6 years ago

    I honestly can see why anyone would buy a PS3 this year at all. Waste of money considering the launch titles and the lack of rumble in the controller in a 600 quid console is just another small reason not to bother. Sony do whats good for Sony. PS3 is putting their interests ahead of gamers. Not saying Ms or Nintendo are better but they are doing it to less of an extent in the coming generation IMO.

  • LittleTofu #121 6 years ago

    yeah whatever, ppl just repeat the same old thing 'Sony this, Sony that, Microsoft this, Microsoft that ... who cares! Buy an Apple and a Wii ... I can't wait for the launch of the PS3! :D

  • Edward_Gamer #122 6 years ago

    Reply to Brim4Brim,

    You made a couple of grammar errors, you left out the word "not" in sentence one, for example. You might want to edit that.

    I agree with many of the things you are saying, though. The Playstation 3 is just way too expensive, and it doesn't have an attractive enough software library at launch or by Christmas. Maybe by the fall of 2007 when Metal Gear Solid 4 is launched the PS3 might be worth looking at. Or, maybe by 2008 when Final Fantasy is released. A price drop will probably have occurred by then.

    But in all honestly, I completely agree with you and many of the other people on this website. I believe that Sony has put their own interests ahead of the gamers. This is the reason why so many negative things are continuously being said about the Playstation 3. I can't see the logic in paying $500 for a version of the PS3 that can't be upgraded, and I can't see the logic in paying $600 for a PS3 with such a small software library.

    Saying that the PS3 is also a Blu-ray player is not a good thing, because it is a very cheap Blu-ray player that is low-quality. I mean, why spend thousands of dollars on high-quality speakers and a high-quality audio/video receiver when all of that would be pointless considering that the large Playstation 3 machine will make as much noise as an air-conditioner in the same room.
    Edited by 1 at 16/08/06 @ 02:06

  • mike_mgoblue #123 6 years ago

    IMPORTANT NOTICE:

    Dell has been forced to recall over 4.1 million laptop computers. The reason for this is because of the defective batteries that the laptops were built to work with, which were made by Sony. You can read about this at the following website: [link url=ELL&Feed=AP&Date=20060814&ID=5946622">http://news.moneycen tral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Symbol=US:DELL&Feed=AP&Date=20060814&ID=5946622
    ]http://ne ws.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/...[/link]

    These defective Sony batteries cause short-circuits to occur that result in flames and fire. Dell recommends that owners of products with Sony batteries should only use AC power for now. I recommend looking at the website; it explains that Dell has started their own website that will explain how owners of Dell laptops with defective Sony batteries can have their products replaced.

  • Carrybagma #124 6 years ago

    Bring back Balor!




    Sincerely

    Carrybagma

  • mike_mgoblue #125 6 years ago

    RE: Herod,

    I always do my best to state the facts. I thought that telling me fellow gamers and computer users about the Dell product recall was the right thing to do. I was not trying to discourage people from purchasing Sony products in the future; although, I certainly can understand why that would happen after people realize that Sony laptop batteries have the potential to literally catch on fire due to the MAJOR defect!!!

    Ever since Sony stopped constructing many of their products in Japan, the quality of their construction has been reduced significantly. My dad bought a Sony TV in the 1970's, and it lasted 20 years! But, I recently bought a Sony HDTV, and I had THREE of them that were defective!!! I finally decided to give up on it, and I got an excellent one from Panasonic.

    The fact that Sony could make over 4.1 MILLION defective batteries is TERRIBLE!!! I can only imagine how many Playstation 3 systems will be defective!!! After all, the whole reason why Playstation 3 games and all Blu-ray movies released so far will be on single-layer Blu-ray discs is because Sony STILL can't figure out a way to release dual-layer Blu-ray discs without an incredibly high product defect ratio.

    I just hope I helped some of you out with this notice. Dell is the worldwide leader of PC sales, which means if you have a Dell laptop, there is probably a pretty good chance that you have a laptop with the risk of catching fire thanks to Sony's defective batteries. I highly recommend you take a look at that article if you have a Dell laptop.
    Edited by 1 at 17/08/06 @ 07:06

  • Edward_Gamer #126 6 years ago

    Reply to mike_mgoblue,

    Thank you for posting the notice about the Dell laptop. I actually have one of those laptop computers with the defective Sony batteries, and I am going to get it replaced. I did not see all of the information about that on my local news until after I saw your notice and started looking for information on my own. The information was being talked about quite a bit on all of my local news channels and CNN. But, if you wouldn't have posted that, I still might have missed it.

    I know what you are talking about in regards to Sony's products being made with lower quality over the last few years. I had a Digital Satellite system made by Sony, and it broke for absolutely no reason. The weird thing is, it broke about a month after the insurance ran out; it was almost as if it was supposed to happen that way! Sony was very unreasonable; they said, "If your product was still under warranty or still insured, we could help you, but we can't." Thankfully, DirecTV picked up for Sony's slack and told me that they would GIVE me an RCA Digital Satellite system if I subscribed for two more years, which I did.
    Edited by 1 at 17/08/06 @ 09:14

  • LittleTofu #127 6 years ago

    I just hope I helped some of you out with this notice, buy a Apple Mac.

  • dredd97 #128 6 years ago

    @ mike_mgoblue

    no, your a microsoft employee, because the way you churn shit after shit, dirt after dirt on sony makes me wonder if sony might consider taking a restraining order out against you...

    You'll be claiming next it was sony that started global warming, and that microsoft aren't a corporate monster soley intent global domination, but a warm and cuddly company that only have the gamers at heart...

    PS please don't write 5,000 word reply a simple F**k you will suffice....