GH dev mocks Rock Band cymbals

By Johnny Minkley Published 28 August, 2008

Reveals plans for new drum controls.

It was never going to be pretty - and with Guitar Hero World Tour set to go head to head with Rock Band 2 this autumn, the rock 'n' roll royal rumble has begun in earnest.

Speaking to Eurogamer last week at Game Convention 2008, Guitar Hero director Brian Bright scorned Harmonix' attempts to match the feature set of the World Tour drum kit, while ostensibly clearing up the mystery surrounding the rumoured new peripherals for Neversoft's title.

"I don't know how far ahead they planned that - we obviously revealed [our drum kit] much earlier than they did," said Bright, referencing Harmonix' plan to release separate clip-on cymbals for Rock Band set-ups.

"I've a feeling there was a: 'Oh s***! There's cymbals! How can we put cymbals on our kit?' That would be the easiest way without having to rewire everything and re-engineer the entire circuit board."

Guitar Hero World Tour's drum kit, coming almost a year after Rock Band first took to the stage, features two raised cymbal inputs, three main pads and a pedal, providing one more input that its rival, with Neversoft arguing that the set-up is also more realistic. All pads are also velocity sensitive and the kit is wireless.

The Rock Band 2 kit remains backwards-compatible with the original game, but adds quieter, velocity sensitive pads with further expansion available via three clip-on cymbals, to be sold separately.

However, Bright dismissed this as a flawed copycat manoeuvre, stating: "My understanding on that drum kit is the cymbals are dual-mapped, so it's just another way to trigger the exact same thing you can trigger on the kit."

He added: "We have a lot of expandability. You can plug in any drum kit and play it; if you want to use a keyboard and play the right notes for drums you can do that; you can use one of those hand sonic drums. You can use any input device that transmits on MIDI channel 10 in our game to trigger the drums: it could be a Power Glove."

Bright also revealed plans to release new drum controls for World Tour, apparently clarifying rumours surrounding new peripherals for the title.

"You can easily run a double bass [pedal] on our game," he told us. "We have future expandability for high-hat control pedals; it would also be very easy for us to add other cymbals via the MIDI interface. With the MIDI jack we can expand it to as many drums and cymbals as humanly possible - there's just only so many that the casual consumer can take."

And in a further dig at his rivals, Bright added: "Our high-hat control would not just be another way to trigger the high-hat - it would be a completely separate interface that's mapped differently and that correlates differently in game."

Harmonix, however, was quick to fight back, dismissing criticism of Rock Band 2. Studio representative John Drake told Eurogamer: "It might just look like more songs, but really the technology that we're pushing forward, and some of the features we've added, it's not just a title update: it really is a new game with a lot of really great stuff."

And Drake cranked up the war of words between Neversoft and Harmonix, offering some barbed thoughts on World Tour's drum kit. "We actually have expansion ports on the back of our drum kits that let you attach three cymbals to your drum set," he said.

"At Harmonix we really are musicians first and game people second... My drum set has three cymbals on it - I don't know how many drum sets you've seen with two cymbals on them; I guess that's a question for other people."

Fight! You can see more handbags action from Bright and Drake as they each attempt to persuade you to buy their game in today's Eurogamer TV Show Battle of the Bands Special.

Guitar Hero World Tour is out on PS3, PS2, 360 and Wii later this year in Europe and the US. Rock Band 2 is confirmed for a US release this autumn, with Europe expected to follow in 2009.

Picture of Johnny.

About Johnny Minkley

Eurogamer TV's Johnny Minkley is a veteran journalist with a lifelong passion for games and the games industry. He uses Twitter more than most people use air.

Read more articles from Johnny by visiting the Johnny Minkley archive page.

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Comments (60) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • stepneg #1 4 years ago

    Let's hope they fight all the way including beating each other on price but somehow after the Rock Band price gouging, I doubt it.
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/08 @ 14:13

  • neilka #2 4 years ago

    Does anyone else remember the days when you just had a plastic guitar?

  • johnnybrn #3 4 years ago

    I cant wait to rock out to these.

    I think that RB2 will be my first purchase as its more fun to play followed by GH later on.

    But seeing as I have the GH3 guitar and Rock-band kit I'll be using these instead of forking out yet again fo new equipment.

  • YobRenoops #4 4 years ago

    I'll be getting GH:WT. As I reckon I'll have it this side of 2009 as opposed to RB2 when RB1 isn't even out on the PS3 yet!

  • Quint2020 #5 4 years ago

    Fuck these games.

    Fuck them right in the arse.

  • Cyhwuhx #6 4 years ago

    .::: Luckily, I'm already bored to tears by these music games.
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/08 @ 14:40

  • rudedudejude #7 4 years ago

    I think these guys are getting a little carried away lol.

    Well with Rock Band 9 you get AN ENTIRE RECORDING STUDIO IN WITH THE BOX Yeh cause thats the best one!!

  • BOFH_UK #8 4 years ago

    Sorry but the Guitar Hero franchise lost my custom when they:

    a) Introduced stupidly hard tracks where the charting actually introduces MORE notes than you'd play in real life
    b) Failed miserably to keep up any sort of consistent DLC releases
    c) Decided to release 30-odd Aerosmith tracks as a whole new game with no link back to the original GH3 or any DLC you may have purchased
    d) Seemed to loose sight of the fact that these sort of games are meant to be FUN!

    It's the first and last ones really that made me go to Rock Band. GH3 had the feeling that they'd gone after the real hardcore end of the market and it just lost the spark that made the first two games such fun. And it's the same here, look at the GH rep's quotes about 'expandability' and tell me that's not someone that's taking his game just a wee bit too seriously? More to the point Harmonix have shown that they DO know how to make a fun game that I can bring out, throw at any random group of guests and end up playing until 3 in the morning (or until the police show up). They've looked after their users well with frequent and decently-priced DLC and have made sure that any investment in Rock Band can be carried on to its sequel. That's good enough for me to stick with them.

  • toythatkills #9 4 years ago

    Yeah, Rock Band, that's the copycat game here. For a man named "Bright" you'd think he'd think before he spoke.

  • grantc7 #10 4 years ago

    Fed up with these games. Learn a proper instrument, enjoyment and satisfaction is far greater when you nail your favourite song.

  • LunatikCajun #11 4 years ago

    I wonder how many people at neversoft are in actual bands?
    I know the audio director at harmonix is in one. A succesful one at that. With CDs on amazon and everything. Does add more to the claim of them being more about the music.

  • mcmonkeyplc #12 4 years ago

    ROCK OUT WITH YOUR COCKS OUT!

  • chudders #13 4 years ago

    I'd be embarassed to have my front room full of Fischer-Price drums and plastic guitars.

    Even worse, I'd feel a complete twat pretending to play said toys with other people. It would be like trying to ride a fucking rocking horse to work or cook up swiss rolls and baked beans on My First Kitchen.

    If it was set up in my lounge and a normal, well-adjusted adult walked in on me whacking a plastic drum pad like a frustrated baby, I think I'd die of shame.

    I'd be probably deserve it, especially considering I'd have spent the best part of £130 on the privelage of looking like a complete dork.

    I guess you can probably tell how I feel about these sorts of games. I wish they would hurry up and die the death such novelties do.


  • Zomoniac #14 4 years ago

    Rock Band is made by people who make, know and care about music. Guitar Hero is made by dickheads. Red Octane are the ONLY reason Guitar Hero is going to do well, because Neversoft and Activision don't have a clue, they're just butchering Harmonix's game. When you take someone else's game, duplicate it and make it much, MUCH worse, I don't think you have any grounds at all to 'diss' them.

    Also, the inclusion of the seperate hi-hat on the RB2 kit, thus allowing play with the natural cross-armed position, is a far bigger deal than GH4's attempt at a couple of cymbals. When your game, multiplayer, note-charts, DLC schedule, graphics, sound and whole package is half as good as RB, you can start bitching. Twat.

  • yupyup #15 4 years ago

    @chudders

    I see your point, but how is pretending to be a Space Marine any more 'cool' ?

    All gamers look like dorks to non gamers, much of a muchness innit.

    Unless you're losing fat and/or waggling that is.

  • Zomoniac #16 4 years ago

    @ chudders

    So instead of £130 for lots of nights of pissed up fun you'd rather spend the same on a year of wasting your life away chasing orcs and mindlessly grinding in WoW?

    I'll take the fun option thank you.

  • LiamK #17 4 years ago

    Hmm, this is annoying. Birthday is on 20th September. Do I ask for Rock Band (second hand. I'm not a bastard), or do I tell everyone to wait until Christmas and see what's out then. I can justify forking out a large sum of money for some fake instruments once. Twice is pushing it.

  • Law07 #18 4 years ago

    BOFH_UK I TOTALLY agree with number 1 there.

    I can play the solo to Metallica - One on real guitar and in GH3 its fucking impossible.
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/08 @ 15:21

  • chudders #19 4 years ago

    It's one thing playing games, it's another thing entirely pretending to play a full set of plastic instruments. It's akin to live action recreation of WoW in my eyes. It takes things just a little too far...

    Call me a dullard for all I care, this is just my opinion. Oh, and I don't play WoW either.

    In fact, I think I've wandered into the wrong website. Good day.

  • smelly #20 4 years ago

    Anyone would think that harmonix came up with the guitar hero/rock band ideas and Neversoft just stole their hard work.

    ... Oh wait...

  • spammage #21 4 years ago

    "So instead of £130 for lots of nights of pissed up fun"

    That would probably get you 1.5 nights out were i live, so suddenly it doesnt seem such an investment. 3 plastic toys and many nights in with the lads vs 1.5 hangovers. SOLD.

  • Zomoniac #22 4 years ago

    @ chudders

    But it's fun. Is that not the most important thing? I spend more time playing real instruments than I do the fake ones, but they're still extremely good fun. I trust you feel the same way about Wii Sports for the very same reason?

  • chudders #23 4 years ago

    Oh and ToonMonkey; do calm yourself dear, no need to get upset. It's just a games website after all.

    As for other life changing news; I've had about 3 poos today, the last of which was a bit wetter than I'd anticipated. It completely caught me by surprise I can tell you!

  • ThePissartist #24 4 years ago

    This article reads a bit like a Eurogamer comments thread.

    Heh.

  • dog #25 4 years ago

    @chunders

    i was silently agreeing with your original post byt now i hate you forever for your last post ;)

  • chudders #26 4 years ago

    Zomoniac; it may well be for you, and I'm not belittling you or anyone for it. But personally (as evidenced by the use of first person in my opening post) I'm not comfortable with it. Horses for courses.

    ...

    Oh ok, perhaps I was goading a bit with my post. But if everyone came on here agreeing how much they loved everything it would be horribly boring.

    So there.

  • ThePissartist #27 4 years ago

    Chudders smells of poo and wee.

  • kangarootoo #28 4 years ago

    There seems to be a lot of people dissing these games on the basis that playing a plastic guitar will make them look sad. News flash, a huge chunk of the rest of world watches us playing Gears of War and Call of Duty and Okami and Street Fighter... and they think "saddos".

    If your game selection is based in any way on what will apparently make you look cool to the rest of the planet, you have made a fundamental mistake right at the first hurdle.

  • Jesterr #29 4 years ago

    Funny how you keep wandering back to the wrong website though, ain't it? ;)
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/08 @ 15:48

  • yupyup #30 4 years ago

    Have you tried GH/RB chudders? They do look ridiculous but with a few people, few drinks they're a lot of fun in my experience. If you like the tracks, that is.

  • kewny #31 4 years ago

    I have RB1 with all the instruments so can I use that to play both RB2 and GH: world tour if I just buy the games themselves ?? Also, can I buy RB2 cymbal add ons which fit my RB1 drum kit ?

    PS I look really fit with my plastic guitar and drums thank you very much !!!!
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/08 @ 16:18

  • Triggerhappytel #32 4 years ago

    I'm more or less with Chudders (expect his last couple of posts). Despite owning GH1 for a while (before selling it to a mate at a loss), I've never seen the appeal of these games. But then, I don't play many multiplayer games and I don't chase high scores. Ho hum.

  • chudders #33 4 years ago

    I tried GHII and found the game mildly entertaining and the accessories borderline acceptable. I just think the current trend to put out more and more peripherals is going a bit too far.

    Also, I'm not really a band person, so that somewhat diminishes the appeal.

  • kangarootoo #34 4 years ago

    "Funny how you keep wandering back to the wrong website though, ain't it? ;)"

    Was that directed at me? If so, I don't understand.

  • jaxon58 #35 4 years ago

    Whichever version allows me to plug in and use my Ion USB drum-kit will get my money.

    I was steering down the GH:WT route, as I was pissed off with the late release of RB1 on the PS3, but now I'm not so sure.

  • shamblemonkee #36 4 years ago

    fundamental obstacle here: i am not going to buy another fake drumkit. i haven't bought a second guitar. i use the one from gh2. I think they are seriously over estimating peoples willingness to purchase more instruments.

  • Rirekon #37 4 years ago

    So who makes what again?

  • sanctusmortis #38 4 years ago

    I'm with BOFH on this; since launch, me, the not-very-gaming wife and two not-much-for-it-either friends have got all the way to the Endless Setlist (where we stop; sorry, but we don't have the 5 hours for that!) in weekly 3-hour sessions with our virtual band.

    That's a lot more than any of us got out of any Wii (I had one and sold it, the wife's friend's one, like many, sits gathering dust, unplugged and unloved), the supposed "party machine"; we've played tons of Wii games, but no "session" lasted more than an hour at best. It's just a fantastic group game, just like they said.

    GH III was the death of the series for me, as the note charts were awful. Nothing should be more important than those in a music game, surely? That "Hot for Teacher" E3 video didn't exactly spark confidence they'd fixed that issue...

  • BOFH_UK #39 4 years ago

    One other thing on Guitar Hero: World Tour. According to Play.com it's going to be £150! Now granted that does come with a 'free' bass guitar but play are doing the Band In A Box and Rock Band game for £140.

    [link url=http://www.play.com/ Games/Xbox360/4-/5816993/Guitar-Hero-World-Tour-Band-Bundle/ Product.html
    ]http://ww w.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/581...[/link]

    So I can only assume that cries to boycot Guitar Hero: World Tour will soon be at the same levels (or hgher) that the Rock Band complaints were at a few months back.

  • BillyBrush #40 4 years ago

    I'm waiting till i can plug a chicken into either RB or GH...you just can't sing country without a rooster

  • kangarootoo #41 4 years ago

    "So I can only assume that cries to boycot Guitar Hero: World Tour will soon be at the same levels (or hgher) that the Rock Band complaints were at a few months back"

    What is this boycott nonsense that keeps coming up in games? People are always talking about boycott this and boycott that.

    If you think something is too expensive, and choose not to buy it, that is not a boycott. Its simply "not buying something".

    This week I shall be boycotting Ferrari and Debeers.

  • Stratus #42 4 years ago

    Guys, is Rock band's guitar charts really that much different from GHIII? I am currently getting quite skilled at Hard setting on GHIII but feel like I will never beat Slash. Course I can remember thinking I'd never get the hang of Medium difficulty and now it's ridiculously boring.

    Is it that RB has fewer notes? Better note placement? Is it more "realistic" in it's placement and timing of notes? Furthermore, does GHIII get it wrong as far as difficulty because they coded the note placement in a way that doesn't remotely make real sense?

    If I am able to get 90+ percent on "La Grange", "EvenFlow" and "Same Old Song And Dance" on Hard would I find Rock Band much easier during same songs at the same difficulty?

  • Robyrt #43 4 years ago

    On being a loser and playing fake instruments: I'm a singer in real life, and I really enjoy these games. When I fire up Rock Band, I can extend that great feeling of being in a band to people who have nowhere near enough musical talent or free time to be in one. Plus, having to play each part separately makes me appreciate some of the songs more.

    On buying new plastic instruments: I'm buying the RB2 set, because I like Harmonix more than Neversoft, and my RB1 drums broke, and I hate the GH3 guitar (short, ugly, thick-necked, no solo buttons). But I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people just bought the standalone game.

    On the interview: Yes, I appreciate that Neversoft's programmers have seen the light and decided to use an open standard. Yes, I know that RedOctane is great. Now if only they would hire somebody to fix their art design and note charts to be more respectable.

  • Robyrt #44 4 years ago

    @Stratus: Rock Band is about 1/2 a difficulty level easier than Guitar Hero 3. There are much fewer instances in Rock Band of songs being more difficult than they are in real life, or of requiring you to strum really fast for the whole song. Rock Band songs also tend to focus less on shredding guitar solos and more on memorable choruses and whole-band moments, leading to a perception that they are more "fair" when it comes to plotting notes.

  • Stratus #45 4 years ago

    Thanks Robyrt.

    So, if I really am playing the majority of the time alone (face sheepish) and really like getting good at the solos in GHIII, would I get more enjoyment out of GH than RB? I love nailing the solo in "la Grange' and the one in "EvenFlow" gives me goosebumps each time I ace it.

    I guess I might like GH4 more even if it's less realistic. Unless the solos are as tricky in RB. Guess I really should rent the original RB and try the guitar. Course I don't think my Red Octane wireless is compatible with RB, or is it?

  • Zomoniac #46 4 years ago

    Stratus,

    Yes, the GH3 wireless works with Rock Band (360). Basically Rock Band is better because it the parts just feel right. Often in GH3 they don't seem to fit what you're hearing, and they intermingle the lead and rhythm parts, making you play both at once, to make it insanely possible. For a good example, play Knights Of Cydonia, that break bit, "no one's going to take me alive", there is no guitar in there at all, they make you play the synth part. Same with Through The Fire and Flames, that isn't a guitar in the intro, it's a keyboard. And you play a keyboard with ten fingers, not five (yes, I know Herman taps the solo, not really the point), so it's a bit unfair.

    FWIW, I can get to the last song on RB on expert (which is physically impossible), and on GH3 I'm completely stuck on the last block on hard.

    Rock Band just looks, sounds and feels a whole lot better. Plus 160MSP for one song is better than over three times that for a pack of three songs, only one of which isn't shit.

  • Stratus #47 4 years ago

    Wow! I never even thought I'd like these games but got GHIII completely FREE when my second 360 croaked and Best Buy was giving it away. Now I'm looking forward to the new ones. I may very well go with RB2. The downloadable content so far for GHIII is abysmal if nothing else. I may even enjoy playing the drums.

    I've lost at least ten pounds since I got GHIII. Instead of sitting on the couch I'm on my feet for hours. And I'm not ashamed to admit I get really into it sometimes...

  • Robyrt #48 4 years ago

    @Zonomaniac: Rock Band isn't flawless in that regard (Boston DLC makes you play the organ solos too), but much better than GH3 in the "just playing lead guitar" department, yes. Also, don't despair on that last song - I thought it was nuts too, but after some more practice I can now do every song (incl. Constant Motion) without using the solo buttons. Expert Drums, on the other hand, I am not qualified to talk about. :-P

  • brommers #49 4 years ago

    Expert drums...Easy. Think that's what maybe broke my shoddy built plastic drum kit.

  • smelly #50 4 years ago

    @kanga :"This week I shall be boycotting Ferrari and Debeers. "


    LOL!

  • Zomoniac #51 4 years ago

    It's just the 32nd GRYRGRYR bits I absolutely cannot do. I usually get to about 85%. I once got 94%. I think I've developed a cheat method requiring a second person but every time I try I fuck it up :)

    I really need to get around to finishing expert drums. I got about 8 songs from the end several months ago and for some reason never went back to it after a bit of a break. Odd.

  • inpHilltr8r #52 4 years ago

    Oooh! MIDI control! Excellent. Time to dig out the sequencer and rack up a few perfect scores.

  • Nithron #53 4 years ago

    The real headline clearly should have been "Guitar Hero World Tour to feature Power Glove compatibility"

    Bloody Power Glove compatibility! This is gonna be the best band simulator *ever*!


    Also I don't get the whole hating on the GH3 note charts thing. I find Rock Band's guitar note charts unbelievably boring - most of them seem to just be strumming the same two notes over and over for most of the song. Surely i'm not the only one that thinks this?
    Edited by 1 at 29/08/08 @ 02:39

  • kangarootoo #54 4 years ago

    "Surely i'm not the only one that thinks this?"

    I've found that too. Maybe I should be playing on expert instead of hard, but the guitar is too shite for me to persist with it. I did find though that, what of it I've played, RB charts just seem to be kind of a bit... pedestrian.

  • metalnut #55 4 years ago

    For those not seeing the attraction: trying to rationally describe what's fun about Rock Band is impossible. Just get together with some friends and play it for a few hours and it will become apparent.

    If you're a solo gamer, you probably won't like it, it's 100% a social game. I've almost never played it alone and the fun is definitely proportional to the number of players. I think that's a good thing, personally - I like playing games with my wife and friends, and playing in the same room is much more of a social experience than playing remotely online. Most importantly, the difficulty is perfect for a group of people who range from little game experience to fairly experienced.

    For those moaning about the difficulty, pick a more difficult song for that instrument then. Guess what - some songs are easier on some instruments! That's like, real life. If you want an artificially enhanced difficulty level irrespective of what the song does, you're playing the wrong game - GHIII is the one that favoured breaking the illusion of playing the song in order to make it arbitrarily harder.

    And for those saying 'learn a real instrument' - a lot of us are doing that too. But the fact that I can have a rock fantasy evening with a bunch of friends (who may not play real instruments) is the attraction. If you can't see that, you're very closed minded.



  • LiamK #56 4 years ago

    Of course, when these games come out then the price of the Rock Band instruments will surely drop. That's one benefit at least, isn't it?

  • aphexstwin #57 4 years ago

    first post.

    am i right in believing rb2 songs are playable on rb1 perri's? wouldnt that mean keeping the 4 note chart and not progressing the franchise? so how do they hope to add 3 cymbals? surely that means i can dick aboot on the kit and complete the song without actually 'playing' it? hmm.

    i do get folks opinions on gh3 notecharts, i hate playing keyboard solos on gh3, but id take that over the monotony of rb's guitar parts. ZZZZzzzzz.

    i just wish, as a drummer, i had the opportunity to move the pads where i want them so im not 'cutting' into the heads. and i also wished the devs used drum sounds from the respective songs when doing the drumfills.

    after m$ allowed gh4 the chance to sneak ahead in this erm, war, im gonna give em a try. it cant hurt can it? i wish everyone here would think the same instead of being immovable on the subject. as a drummer i want to have a real crack of trying to play these songs, and i believe that gh4 will give me the 'muscle memory' to try them on my stage custom kit. especially if tools 'schism' makes an appearance!

  • andywilkie35 #58 4 years ago

    ROCK BAAAAND!!

  • grussbarbar #59 4 years ago

    I don't have any problems with the Guitar Hero III note charts. I don't think it's bad that Neversoft gave veteran players some extra challenge in the songs. I'd wager most of the people playing Guitar Hero don't even hear that you sometimes play the rhythm guitar instead of the lead guitar, to name just an example.

    Besides, playing real guitar is a lot more difficult than playing Guitar Hero. Is it that bad that the difficulty on Expert level got upped a notch? That would in a way more closely resemble the real difficulty of playing guitar, even though you might play a few notes too many...

    Anyway, I just wanted to say I personally have not felt for a moment that the illusion of being a rock star was broken by the difficulty/ extra notes in Guitar Hero III. If anything, the illusion for me has strengthened, since the solo's/HOPO's are so much easier to pull off now.
    So I'm very satisfied with the note charting and game mechanics of Guitar Hero III and I have full confidence that Guitar Hero IV will be good, or good enough, too.

  • Dr.Mott #60 4 years ago

    @ Nithron

    Totally Agree