Epic reveals 10-year plan for Gears Comments by Robert Purchese

@farticus:

I was with you up to the point where you said you had no problem with Dom.

Gears in co-op is simply awesome. A bit easy, mind, but truly awesome. In single player it is one of the most frustrating games ever conceived.

Dom's suicidal habits completely break the game. I couldn't even get past the first level on hard cos of Dom. He would run into the middle of the room as the enemies were breaking down the door, then rush them, then start bleeding out cos he didn't know how to shoot, then completely die and cause a game over. EVERY. BASTARD. TIME.

It took me hours to get past the Berserker thanks to the same thing as well. Oh, and I had to restart the level with the spotlight due to Dom refusing to get out of the darkness.

But Star Wars is pretty shit too.

The latter 3 episodes are entertaining but forgettable and the first 3 episodes are truly awful.

"LOL at the GOW fanboys. Go back to your emergence holes fools, Epic releases broken games and makes YOU test them once you've spent your hard earned money on them so MAYBE the game is playable after about 6 months. MAYBE. "

LOL at the GOW haters. Go back to your emergence holes fools. Epic releases awesome games and makes you play them into the early hours once you're spent your hard earned money on them so MAYBE the can let the game go after about 6 months. MAYBE.


Tjesus fucking christ, haters truly are the saddest and most pathetic creatures of them all.

EDIT: Just for fun, I'm calling you out: You have not even touched GOW2.

"jesus fucking christ, haters truly are the saddest and most pathetic creatures of them all"

+1

You know we're probably branded as fanboys now though eh? Haha... I guess they can have their delusions if it makes them feel better somehow. :)

TBF, their posts speak for them. If they somehow brand us as fanboys and thus distancing us from their bs, I'll wear that badge proudly.

"Dom's suicidal habits completely break the game. I couldn't even get past the first level on hard cos of Dom."

Might I suggest not relying on Dom and maybe playing a little bit better? ;)

Only kidding, I'm not a 'leet' gamer or anything, but if you tag the locust as soon as they are visible you can pretty much make Dom redundant and not a threat. Either that, or use him as bait, but keep him well covered. Also, headshots are absolutely vital on hard, or it takes an age to kill each locust.

I couldnt kill RAAM on hard mode though. He was a bast. More than half the times I tried I ran out of ammo.

The people who say it's the same as Gears 1 means that they've either not played it, as Xerx3s points out, or only played the first section of the first level. As the game very quickly ups the ante onto a far more epic scale than the first game. Excuse the pun.

I actually really liked the way you start the game, and makes you feel that it is just 'more of the same' from Gears 1, then it hits you with the true beginning of the game when the opening titles sequence kicks into gear. Oh, again, excuse the pun! :P

"TBF, their posts speak for them. If they somehow brand us as fanboys and thus distancing us from their bs, I'll wear that badge proudly."

Yeah, good point. Me too :)

The GOW games are massively flawed in term of their basic gameplay and design. Clearly some people are willing to overlook this, but others are not. For me, the core gameplay isn't enough fun to put up with the rest of the annoyances. Other people will disagree but it doesn't make them right, just more tolerant of poor design.

@Farticus
"If it's done right, the option to have single player or co-op will always be better than not having the option. Always."

Not necessarily for me in campaign mode. I enjoy a lone soldier feel to a shooter now and then and having *all* games set-up for co-op or always having an AI bloke next to you can detract from that. Halo is probably the only example where the game gets both right for me. The trend is certainly towards a lot more dedicated co-op modes or full games though.

Good tactic, might try it if I pick up GoW2.

Would be nice if Epic put their talents into something new though.

@insincere_dave

What exactly is this poor design you speak of? I've been a gamer since the my first Amstrad and have seen many poor game designs in that time, but thoroughly enjoyed virtually every aspect of Gears. It's ridiculous and over-the-top but that's what it's supposed to be, I took the style as very tongue in cheek, as opposed to the macho-homoerotic views so many others take. In fact, I laughed out loud on many occasions with some of the shit they came out with, especially Cole Train and his hilarious speeches!

Off the top of my head (from having played the first 3 acts of Gears 1 on the middle difficulty)...

Stupidly placed checkpoints requiring you to walk large distances / watch cutscenes before play continues
AI which involves your team-mates getting themselves killed far more easily than the enemy
Issues with using cover points on corners
One hit kills from the enemies with the dart guns
The greul (the flying bat things) in general amazingly managing to be more annoying than Halo's Flood

I though the jock mentality in the cut-scenes was actually good fun and there were some nice touches but overall it did nothing spectacularly well enough to make me put up with the aforementioned flaws. I'm happy to die over and over again in Halo (except in rare instances against the flood) because it always feels fair, Gears doesn't have the same level of enjoyment for me.

Well I'd be more than happy at more gears, the single player of 2 was a massive improvement over the slightly dull first (although A LOT of it is on rails).

But because of the shambles that is online in 2, I'm gonna think real hard before investing in more GOW games.

@DrDamn

I said 'if it's done right'. That doesnt mean there will always be AI running around when you play single player. There are many examples of single player shooters with no team AI or team AI only in certain sections, but that have superb co-op. Halo 1 for example.

"Stupidly placed checkpoints requiring you to walk large distances / watch cutscenes before play continues"

Example please. I remember no such checkpoints.


"AI which involves your team-mates getting themselves killed far more easily than the enemy"

That's your inability to cover your teammate, or your inability to keep enemy numbers low.


"Issues with using cover points on corners"

Example please. Apart from trying to use a cover point that wasnt supposed to be a cover point I remember no such corner issues.


"One hit kills from the enemies with the dart guns"

By dart gun you mean torque bow. An EXPLOSIVE tipped arrow which you get PLENTY of warning that it is incoming.


"The greul (the flying bat things) in general amazingly managing to be more annoying than Halo's Flood"

The Kryll you mean, which are very easily avoided by simply staying in the light. how on earth did you manage to have problems with them?


Sounds like you are lashing out at something you simply are not good at, and are thus frustrated.

Epic dudes, I just love you SO MUCH. From Unreal one when it came out and telling me about years of Gears to come is just freaking amazing long lasting news. I'll be here watching the UE3 progress too while I enjoy those damn tittles.

Amazing!And to think.. I havent had time to play online the 2nd instalment but i finished the campain when the game came out within 2 days. Now i hapened to arange today some fast food, beer and then Co-op of Gears when drunk. The lady coes home late so I'll be more than ready for every kind of scoring today ;)

That's what I call a relaxing easy going day :p

@Farticus
The Halo series is the only example I can think of to be honest. Games devs have got limited resources though. I'd rather a few kept focused on the SP campaign and left co-op to those that focus on it or do have the resources to make it work - it's not all that simple a feature to support properly.

"@EG
If there are any more 'slide across my view' ads I will leave the site and never return. Please, plesae remove them."


My general rule of thumb is that I'll not adblock ads on sites I support, but any ads which block the article or have unwanted sound will find those particular elements added to my block list. It's give and take. You want ad revenue from me clicking on the ones I find myself interested in, then don't make them intrusive and I will see more of them.

Oh dear. Thank god I play this through friends and not have to throw my own money at it.

@insincere_dave

Well, Farticus covered most of my responses, not quite as eloquently as I would have put it mind you, but I do share most of his basic points with the exception of the checkpoints. On the first game I remember some oddly placed checkpoints, don't remember having to run a long way at all, in fact I'm pretty sure that never even happened, but you did occassionally get put back to a checkpoint which you had a good 5 minutes fight to get back to where you were. The game was never that hard for it too be a major issue for me though, even on Insane difficulty.

Am I correct to assume you're basing all you comments on only playing the first few levels of only the first game? Hmm... Not sure what to say about that.

What I'm most interested in is how they plan to extend the SP of Gears 2? Doesn't happen much these days.

I like the checkpoints in Gears. My only complaint with the Halo games are too generous checkpoints. makes the game too easy imo.

"What I'm most interested in is how they plan to extend the SP of Gears 2? Doesn't happen much these days. "

Yeah. Not many comments regarding this great news. I gladly take a new singleplayer level (with a new type of monster for boss fight please).

@DrDamn

"The Halo series is the only example I can think of to be honest."

Timesplitters also did co-op excellently, and army of two was a superb co-op implementation in a slightly dull game. There are many example of good co-op, and I can't really think of any bad examples.


"Games devs have got limited resources though. I'd rather a few kept focused on the SP campaign and left co-op to those that focus on it or do have the resources to make it work - it's not all that simple a feature to support properly."

That's your perogative. I view any shooter without co-op as being crippled. I won't get anywhere near as much playtime without it.


"it's not all that simple a feature to support properly."

The number of games that have successfully implemented it says otherwise ;)

@Farticus
I'm not saying co-op is a bad thing but it isn't no cost. With plenty more games concentrating on co-op as the key feature then I can get my fill elsewhere where the experience is more focused. Lack of co-op didn't stop me or you putting in plenty of time in CoD4 did it?

Also Bioshock. Bloody awesome, no multiplayer, co-op or survival modes.

@muscleblade

"My only complaint with the Halo games are too generous checkpoints. makes the game too easy imo."

Assualt on the control room - the enormous battle where you have a huge open battlefield with flood attacking covenant, and 3 wraith tanks in the mix. To checkpoint you had to get to the phantom and fly to the next canyon but that was impossible with any wraiths surviving. That checkpoint took FOREVER on legendary. Hardest section in any shooter I've ever played, and the most rewarding.

Overall it was quite generous with checkpoints, but there was the odd bastard thrown in there. I don't play Halo on less than heroic though, and always legendary on co-op.

Actually, I agree with farticus again.

Co-op isn't that hard to implement. Most AI anyway (if done in a way that isn't cheaty) is basically an emulated sequence of keypresses. All you have to do is take the emulated keypresses and turn them into real keypresses.

Job done.

Also: plenty of time in CoD4? Single player mode lasted me about 5 hours.

Assault On The Control Room is possibly one of my most favourite levels on any game ever.

I think MS should make a handheld which was powerful enough to run old xbox games and stick that out on it.

@farticusmaximus

I agree with you. That was the hardest part to get past. I also start on Heroic for first playthrough and then play it on Legendary. I love all the Halo games. The easy checkpoint issue was most noticable in Halo 2 btw imo.

The thing about Co-op is that you've got to start looking at level design from a multiplayer perspective as opposed to a single player.

I don't know much about Horde mode but it sounds a bit like the R2 co-op where its separate from the game, and you are dropping in for just a piece of co-op action. I would rather that than compromise the single player experience.

Horde mode is the best part of Gears 2 imo.

@MasterNameless + farticus

Gears 2 main flaw for me has to be instant death.

The most stupid idea/concept in any effin game ever. Why have health if you're going to threaten people with an instant kill? And no I'm not talking about the torque bow, because as was mentioned, you spot that a mile away, I'm talking about:

- Oh shit locust next to me and I'm dead by chainsaw (slightly excusable - maybe I shouldn't be that close)
- Whilst riding on top of tank, kill driver, oh you haven't in 5 seconds? DEAD!
- Whilst riding in tank, you have to know to take out the tower first, because if you don't you're dead.
- Protecting the cowboy dude, building collapses and block falls out, instant death (x2 for trying to figure out where block bloody well lands)
- Inside the worm, the level thats kind of like an adult rated mario section, no indication of how to get past certain blocks, touch it, instant death.
-Somewhere towards the end, you're in a lift and its on fire you have to find an exit, you end up wandering one direction, if youre lucky you escape, if not instant death and you try again

Not to mention countless other sections plus on rails which lead to instant death. Its not a game mechanic, its a mechanic to make the game last longer. Its the one thing I really hope developers will at one point understand, is that quicktime events and instant death are just not fun! Graphically - love it. Multiplayer horde, love it, but I seriously can't see myself going back to single player ever again.

(Of course theres a caveat that instant death is acceptable, if that is the idea of your game (almost like pacman or something like that) but thats because you have no gradient life. Whats the point of a health bar/health indication if you're not going to give the player an opportunity to change their tactics as they're doing something wrong?)

@DrDamn

I only put CoD4 campaign on when you guys were over on games night which is why it took several months to finish. I played less than a quarter of the campaign and thought it looked nice but was not at all enjoyable apart from the bombing mission. I simply cannot forgive infintely respawning enemies, it's the worst, cheapest mechanic a game can use and utterly ruined the SP for me.

I only got CoD4 for the online multiplayer.


@Widge

Point taken about Bioshock, although that's not strictly in the same genre. The RPG-ish elements such as hacking and plasmids don't lend themselves to multiplayer gaming.

farticusmaximus: Tsk, you pansy. Any TRUE halo fan will be able to beat that section blindfolded on legendary. With a toothpick.

zuljin: You just described flaws in your gameplay, not flaws in the game.

@zuljin

Agreed that some of those instadeath sections could get annoying. The worm stomach teeth thing section was especially annoying if you had a very intoxicated or inexperienced co-op partner with you! ;)

Fortunately the checkpoints around those areas were close.

zuljin if you are serious then you are some seriously shite player, those are all not instant death siutationeither with the exception of the tank and hte game often actually explains to you the risk of death.

"The Lancer is the new Lightsaber", "A harder edged Lord Of The Rings"...

I've never been a fan of hyperbole. Stop it!

I think it's hilarious that people put single line answers to criticisms thinking this suddenly renders them obsolete. I'm sorry, but I found Gears massively frustrating to play and if I was somehow "playing it wrong" then the game is to blame for not being designed well enough to show me the correct tactics for dealing with its challenges. It was reasonable for the 3/5 that I played of it, but I don't feel bothered in the slightest that I won't find out how the storyline pans out.

@Xerx3s

"Tsk, you pansy. Any TRUE halo fan will be able to beat that section blindfolded on legendary. With a toothpick."

I'm not a gaming god by any stretch of the imagination, I can barely keep my kill-to-death ratio in CoD4 above 1:1, but I do make up for it with tenacity and a varied profanity vocabulary. :)

@Xerx3s
No. Just no.

You can't expect everyone to to play the same way. I'm not saying dumb it down for everyone, but there were too many occasions where instant death occured without any indication it was going to occur. Like the driver for instance, that came out of the blue for both of us in coop.

@farticusmaximus
The worm was horrible. I remember playing that on coop and getting incredibly frustrated because if I made it, my mate may not. I remember at one point trying it with AI and it ended up so much easier.

Generally I'm a big fan of co-op in shooters, but it certainly ain't the be all and end all. Judging from the recent demo for resident evil 5, it's co-op implementation may pretty much cripple it's SP mode. That said, I haven't played through GoW1 but Dom didn't die for me once while going through hard on GoW2, so he didn't bother me much.

"Judging from the recent demo for resident evil 5, it's co-op implementation may pretty much cripple it's SP mode. "

Yeah, I had this queued in Game pre-orders. Didn't even know it had co-op in it until the demo came out (haven't really been reading previews). Cancelled it because I don't want the co-op to spoil my single player game.

Good news for xbots the world round, they love their shooters...unless it's called Killzone2 or Resistance. They don't like them.

"What I'm most interested in is how they plan to extend the SP of Gears 2? Doesn't happen much these days. "

Well Fable 2 did, Fallout 3 did, GTA 4 next week. Perhaps you'll need to select a new chapter (act 6 then) for the single player DLC.

"What I'm most interested in is how they plan to extend the SP of Gears 2? Doesn't happen much these days. "

Well Fable 2 did, Fallout 3 did, GTA 4 next week. Perhaps you'll need to select a new chapter (act 6 then) for the single player DLC.
Yes, but those 3 are freeform open-world games with branching structure and an ending you can trigger when you are done exploring.

Corridor shooters? Not so much.

Might be like Half-Life, where you can pick which one you want to play at the start though, like they did with Blue Shift.

But Star Wars is pretty shit too. The latter 3 episodes are entertaining but forgettable and the first 3 episodes are truly awful.

Do you mean 'latter' in terms of the actual Star Wars timeline or in terms of their individual release?

@Farticus
"I only got CoD4 for the online multiplayer."

Which is my point. The online multiplayer was sublime but if that came out today then by your stated standards you wouldn't buy it because the campaign didn't have co-op.