Gears criticised for stereotyping Comments by Ellie Gibson

I do actually agree with him. Blacks are so stereotyped in video games it's unreal. The only non-stereotype I can think of is Eli Vance in Half Life 2 - when I absolutely cannot think of any other examples from 15 years of game, I think that's absolutely sad.

"Why dont we talk about the MOBO's a black music award which gives one white musician award out (if thats not racist what is). "

I know, damn it! How are us black people supposed to win the one white musician award FFS! ;)

What have the darkies ever done for us?

'Politcally correct' does not equal showing respect for others.

That's exactly what it means in this context. It's about acknowledging the fact that as a relatively affluent white male I'm in a position of quite astonishing privilege through no special merit of my own - in this case, that games are designed expressly to cater to the tastes of my peers, which is why 90% of female characters are pouting airbrushed ornaments and 90% of black characters are capering bloody stereotypes. It's about realising and bloody well respecting that other people are going to be legitimately irritated and/or offended by these things.

Britain generally pretends that racism doesn't exist - when it's in front of their faces, while America makes a fucking huge issue of race all the time.

That's my experience, anyway.

Stay in denial, guys! Of course none of it matters and it's all acceptable, just sweep it under the carpet as usual!!!

/gets on with making money and living life

i cant remember the last decent black video game character actually :(

"'Politcally correct' does not equal showing respect for others.

That's exactly what it means in this context. It's about acknowledging the fact that as a relatively affluent white male I'm in a position of quite astonishing privilege through no special merit of my own - in this case, that games are designed expressly to cater to the tastes of my peers, which is why 90% of female characters are pouting airbrushed ornaments and 90% of black characters are capering bloody stereotypes. It's about realising and bloody well respecting that other people are going to be legitimately irritated and/or offended by these things. "

Are you an Edge hack?

What the hell is wrong with catering to the tastes of white males? Most male characters in British soap operas are bloody doormats. Does that offend me? I couldn't give a fuck, our demographic lost prime time telly a decade ago and I never watch it.

If you're identity and tastes makes you feel so bloody guilty it ain't my problem. Me, I really enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR, and I couldn't give a toss if black/female/gay/etc people also do; and if what I'm playing offends them.

I'm not asking them to watch. Of course if they also enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR I'll play co-op with them anytime.

Showing respect is treating people the same regardless of their race. Political correctness is calling a black board a chalk board so you don't offend someone.

jesus, these comments are frightening.
he's saying that there are about four black characters in the whole of gaming, and they all seem to be based on snoop fucking dogg. and he's right, baring the odd notable exception

Well if he hadn't be a stereotype he wouldn't fit the general theme for the character design; generic. Would've stood out like a sore thumb.

I was laughing my head off. This is so funny, but I dare anyone to say he is lying or got it wrong (especially the japanese dev bit).

What a load of SHIT!!!!!!!!! This is yet again the same old people complaining about the same old thing. Wether right or wrong, stereotyping exists in all works of life, as does prejudice. It will never be eliminated as its a vicious circle. Racism can be worsened by poeple like him saying blacks are being persecuted once again!!!!!!! Makes me sick. Hers an example

MOBO awards - about BLACK music. Black and Hindu TV channels (URBAN stuff etc), you get the idea - I could list all day but I won't. Do you EVER see "Music of WHITE origin Awards" No. Do we have White only TV channels. No.

Do we sit and moan we dont have our own things with the words WHITE in. No we dont. We just bloody get on with it and listen to everyone else complain.

Cos there would be a fuckin national riot. The racism card is played so wrongfully these days it is untrue. And the sooner people like him realise he is makeing people more racist by the enourmous chip on his shoulder then it will never improve. All people are sterotyped in games. If they were not, all characters would be the bloody same but with different skin colour. So, we could have the white man takin jive, the Japanese man taking Africaan, The Hindu taking australian - would that make people happy? No - it would be ridiculous. It is what it is. The sooner people stop pulling the racist card on sit like this, the sooner racism will die down and the more people wlll be happy. Like all life, its a vicious circle.

I love it. All the insightful comments in this thread.
Made mostly by white surburanite gamers. Yes, the insight in this place is deep.

I still remember the outcry when GTA:SA was based in the city, using an urban setting and a black character.

>"He's the one showing racism by actually caring about these minor things."

Are you thick or something?

>"Britain generally pretends that racism doesn't exist - when it's in front of their faces, while America makes a fucking huge issue of race all the time."

That's pretty much my view too.
In the US of A, any small thing will become a racist debate (like the lebron james magazine cover). Here in the UK? Well, you get threads like this.

Sensationalist journalism aside he does make a fair point. Case in point is Drake's Fortune where you play, unsurprisingly, that favourite of gaming the clean cut all american white guy. Then there's the standard white love interest and a aging white sidekick for a bit of exposition and comic relief. However every single person you shoot is either black, hispanic or oriental. Frankly its surprising they didn't shoehorn in some arabs to round off the set. The ONLY white person you shoot is the big baddie but he's english so not technically white in the american sense :P

Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be.

I think 'The Bodybuilder's insulting spam sums up the situation nicely.

The really intolerant section of society are in fact the bleeding heart politically correct liberals. He himself is cleary prejudiced against 'white surburanite (sic) gamers'. How fucking dare they speak their voice, those stupid ignorant cunts!

Hey Cole, this race debate is almost as big as you!

Almos'

Are you an Edge hack?

What the hell is wrong with catering to the tastes of white males? Most male characters in British soap operas are bloody doormats. Does that offend me? I couldn't give a fuck, our demographic lost prime time telly a decade ago and I never watch it.

If you're identity and tastes makes you feel so bloody guilty it ain't my problem. Me, I really enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR, and I couldn't give a toss if black/female/gay/etc people also do; and if what I'm playing offends them.

I'm not asking them to watch. Of course if they also enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR I'll play co-op with them anytime.

So to sum up, you're completely OK with anybody liking anything they want, so long as everything is still being run for your benefit?

Well, to coin a phrase - that's mighty white of you, mister.

The really intolerant section of society are in fact the bleeding heart politically correct liberals. He himself is cleary prejudiced against 'white surburanite (sic) gamers'. How fucking dare they speak their voice, those stupid ignorant cunts!

Yeah, man. Let's not lose sight of who's really got a legitimate grievance, eh?

"Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

@Rodofawa

You're posts speaks volumes mate.

"So to sum up, you're completely OK with anybody liking anything they want, so long as everything is still being run for your benefit? "

Eh?, who mentioned 'everything'?; I'm just talking about videogames like Gears of War which are aimed at a certain demographic. Whats wrong with media aimed at 20s/30s white males? Do you hear me moaning about Wii games aimed at 7 year olds or housewives?

"Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

That statement there is out and out racist. White males aren't allowed 'greviances'? I don't even have a 'greviance', I'm just stating that there's nowt wrong with these videogames as they are, aimed at my demographic. I don't see anything inherently good about changing that media so it is aimed at someone else. By all means make games for other types of gamer if there is a demand - a la Nintendo - but that doesn't mean you have to do away with the style of games many of us enjoy and critcize them because they don't conform to your politically correct facist creed.

People like you make me want to shit blood.

Look, racism is bad and all, but until i see a black videogame character walking around with a bucket of chicken, as far as I'm concerned, they are fictional characters, stylized to fit the theme of a game, aimed at a certain demographic or audience. From the movies i have watched, and the black people i have met, black folks love their individuality, so any black character you design is going to step on somebodies toes in RL. same goes for white folks i guess, but i aint heard their voice of protest, or at least some dude protesting for them.

Come on now people, black and white, theres REAL racism in the real world, and then theres looking for any old fucking excuse to get uppity about shit.

Would it make a difference if the game was programmed by an entirely black team? would it therefore become acceptable, like the black racism found in some black comedians stand up routines?

its ok to laugh at the racist black jokes now because they are told by a black guy? Its ok that the routine is targeting 'niggers' (Chris Rock i'm a lookin at you) as he balances it out by having a little tirade against red neck inbreeding crackers at the end to maintain some semblance of balance?

did a single white person complain at the end of his routine? i doubt it, its a fucking comedy routine, its entertainment, and they are just words and images. they cant hurt you can they? they cant change your life can they?

if they really do affect your brain and you simply cannot live with this stuff existing in the same world as you do, then fuck me, you have no life of which to speak and all of your priorities are a bit fucked up. i suggest counseling or a mental asylum, cause the world is not going to change just for you. deal with it.

P.S. San Andreas was my favorite GTA, and it made me feel like a reverse Micheal Jackson. or something.

Stranglehold - Tough as nuts asian dude ruining ppls shit
Sims 2 - You can be a blacky without any penalties at all!


I rest my case, the world is very diverse and nobody has and hard feelings towards the darkies.

Ahhh... modern Britain

/whistles 'Rule Britannia'

Morgan Gray is a fool if he thinks he can stop the Cole Train. The Cole Train stops for no one, least of all a snivelling videogame loving cracker who speaks to MTV.

And if I really was "the average white guy" from Gears of War, I might actually have no trouble finding a date. But personally none of the white guys I know are buffed out meatheads with no necks : (

Not having a black lead character in a game isn't racist. Isn't the person who notices, and makes a song and dance about it, the racist for even noticing? Besides, someone has to voice act these parts so are the black voice actors racist too?

@Rodafowa

You wrote:

'Yeah, man. Let's not lose sight of who's really got a legitimate grievance, eh?
"Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..." '
and
'Well, to coin a phrase - that's mighty white of you, mister.'

Are these not racist?

Yeah, saying white makes you racist, saying black makes you racist, that's right...er...

Yeah, he's really complaining about the lead guy not being black, isn't he? Yeah right.

Yeah, yeah, he must want all video games characters to be black! He wants to rule the world!!!! Oh Noes!!!!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he must want them all to act like posh people - the black characters - he must want that even though it's not realistic at all...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah - he has a chip on his shoulder!!! Why is he offended at seeing loads of n*ggers acting like n*ggers?!?!?
That's what they act like on Xbox live!!!

All of those kids on there who probably listen to and show off like 50 Cent... oh wait?!?

>"But personally none of the white guys I know are buffed out meatheads with no necks :"

I can't see many girls liking the marcus fenix look.
But it's different for dom, He's a latino, and girls loves them some LATINO HEAT. They would probably want him to be thier papi.

>"Not having a black lead character in a game isn't racist. Isn't the person who notices, and makes a song and dance about it, the racist for even noticing."

I'm amazed at the amount of people who don't even know what racism is.
Speaks volumes about some of the comments here.

"I'm amazed at the amount of people who don't even know what racism is.
Speaks volumes about some of the comments here."

Is it if you don't like teh Gooks?

Let's not lose sight of the fact that this tool is a fucking game developer. Instead of moaning about it he could design the games he's talking about.

Personally I think he's just pissed GoW was successful and whatever shit Tomb Raider game he's responsible for (probably Angel of Darkness) flopped.

Would you listen to yourselves? You're picking out fairly obscure games just to 'prove' he's wrong. It's that kind of overly defensive attitude that more or less, to me anyway, lends a lot of weigh to what he' s saying. Also, to all the people saying that it's 'okay' in games because stereotypes exist in the media and other artistic forms, why don't we applaud those who try and set a new precedent in computer games, because that might just prove to those who look down on the video game that it's a viable and respectable medium that's setting out to change preconceptions, rather than parrot them.

@StJude: "You're picking out fairly obscure games just to 'prove' he's wrong"


Yes, Half-Life 2 is as obscure as it gets...o_O

This is the thing, is stereotyping necessarily racist? The answer is no. Is a negative stereo type racist? Possibly, yes. In the context of the game (Gears), is Cole Train a negative stereotype? No, he isn't. He is in fact a hero trying to save us from evil locust aliens.

I don't see the problem. I pidy you fools!

Yeah, that's a constructive argument you've got there. Pick up on one point I made and counter that, rather than offering a rebuttal to the whole argument. It's kinda telling. Actually, you know what, I think I'm gonna do as another did.

*backs away slowly*

I am just amazed by some of the comments here. Seriously, too shocked to write any more on it.

/hides

Some of these comments are unbelievable!

I mean seriously if a white guy designing a game character makes his character white is he racist? His making a statement? The truth is no, he probably isn't giving it a second thought. What about Capcom with Resi 5, are they racist because black people are the infected because the game is set in a country where black people live this time? PC prats read too much into it (as per usual).

I have to say Rodafowa and The Bodybuilders comments are the most insulting here and sound like they have big chips on their shoulders!

@ Rodafowa
From the comments I have read I can only see that it is you who is prejudiced here (by the way I'm neither middle class or white).

@ The Bodybuilder
your comments on how Britain ignores racism?? Absolute rubbish friend, true we had problems with racism many years ago (which I myself suffered) but we have come a long way since then. I might add that in Britain it's not just white people who are racist either. I know many black and asian people and find them to be the most racist people I know.

But there in lies the problem that no one talks about. It's not OK for white people to be racist but it's OK for others to be racist to white people. For example A black/asian comedian can poke fun at whites and even themselves but if a white person makes fun of them there is hell to pay. Or the MOBOs, I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards".

It is this fundamental double standard that CAUSES the hate (from what the white people I know say). more so than the actual colour of anyones skin.

"I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards"

Erm...A load of guys playing the lute and harp perhaps?

Xensor's QUOTE

"Sensationalist journalism aside he does make a fair point. Case in point is Drake's Fortune where you play, unsurprisingly, that favourite of gaming the clean cut all american white guy. Then there's the standard white love interest and a aging white sidekick for a bit of exposition and comic relief. However every single person you shoot is either black, hispanic or oriental. Frankly its surprising they didn't shoehorn in some arabs to round off the set. The ONLY white person you shoot is the big baddie but he's english so not technically white in the american sense :P

Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be. "

This isnt an attack on one persons comment but just using an example as I actually agree with the comment. I do not dissagree with this comment however I owuld like to point out that - FREQUENTLY in games people say similar things - but you know what, if a white person travels to an amozonian country or wherever something is set of different race, the people who live there are going to be a different colout arnt they. So Uncharted like everything else could be deemed racist. If they made a game about an African coming to England to fight bad guys - guess what, they will be white?! The kilelr will be black. Is it racist? Is it heck. Its heritage. Its the same as the Tin Tin debate like Tin Tin goes to the amazon and media complaining all the baddies are black. THEYRE IN THE BLOODY AMAZON!! Theyre not gonna be white are they.

Thats what people keep missing. So if the main character in Uncharted was black, or mexican - then it wouldnt be racist? Its a bit of a strange debate isnt it. Whatever country you visit in a game - the country will reflect the race - so to prevent this debate they will have to make all residents of all countries in a game - the same race as the main charater? Utter bollocks.

So - like the good man Xensor says "Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be. " Nuff said

@ Kryon

"I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards"

Erm...A load of guys playing the lute and harp perhaps?

LOL! :)

"So Uncharted like everything else could be deemed racist."

Yeah, on that note, would anyone care to explain why the bad guys in uncharted are dressed in 'hood' clothes when the game clearly isn't set in the hood? Baggy jeans, white 'sneaks', sock hats, gold chains and 'urban' style tattoos? It did strike me as a little out of place...

@ Kryon

Not played it myself but that does sound pretty stupid, but the hood is a jungle blood :)

@bad09

I hear that, homez. ;)

Eh?, who mentioned 'everything'?; I'm just talking about videogames like Gears of War which are aimed at a certain demographic. Whats wrong with media aimed at 20s/30s white males? Do you hear me moaning about Wii games aimed at 7 year olds or housewives?

So... do I have your position right, here? That black people didn't have the right to complain about how they were portrayed on, say, The Black And White Minstrel Show because it wasn't aimed at them?

"Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

That statement there is out and out racist.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

White males aren't allowed 'greviances'? I don't even have a 'greviance', I'm just stating that there's nowt wrong with these videogames as they are, aimed at my demographic. I don't see anything inherently good about changing that media so it is aimed at someone else. By all means make games for other types of gamer if there is a demand - a la Nintendo - but that doesn't mean you have to do away with the style of games many of us enjoy and critcize them because they don't conform to your politically correct facist creed.

If you can point out a single post where I've advocated "doing away" with any style of game, or indeed changing the demographic they're targetted at, you'll win a coconut.

There's a world of difference between "content aimed at young white men" and "content that exclusively treats women and minorities as objects of amusement for young white men". Jesus, why am I even having to point that out?

"Facist creed". Good God almighty.

People like you make me want to shit blood.

People like you just make me tired and sad, to be honest.

The way I see this is that gaming does have habit of sticking generic stereotyped characters into the same old cliched situations. Banging on about the racism of it all is the wrong way to go about it, because all people will do is read the word racism and then begin on a frothy rant on every topic under the sun.

This is yet another article on the theme of the way gaming, huge as it is, is lacking behind the likes of film as a form of media.

I can't think of the last time we had a really iconic, stand out character in gaming. I mean look at Master Chief for an example. He is a hulking faceless green spaceman with barely any dialogue flair.

Games coming along which tell a story that genuinely entertains and follows a non-standard path are very few and far between. I'd love to play something which has the impact of, say, watching Fight Club for the first time.

I think Final Fantasy 7 provided my last "whoa" moment, I mean one main gameplay character gets killed off, and two others put out of action for a decent portion of the game. That just wasn't what happened in games.

@bad09

"your comments on how Britain ignores racism?? Absolute rubbish friend, true we had problems with racism many years ago (which I myself suffered) but we have come a long way since then. I might add that in Britain it's not just white people who are racist either. I know many black and asian people and find them to be the most racist people I know.

But there in lies the problem that no one talks about. It's not OK for white people to be racist but it's OK for others to be racist to white people..."

DUH - ARE YOU STUPID??? That's what I would call... BRITAIN IGNORING RACISM!