Gears criticised for stereotyping

By Ellie Gibson Published 10 April, 2008

Cole said to "reinforce casual racism".

Morgan Gray, senior producer at Crystal Dynamics, has said he's fed up with all the stereotypical black characters appearing in games - singling out Gears of Wars' Cole Train as a prime example.

His comments came in an interview with MTV Multiplayer, currently running a series of features about black professionals working in the games industry.

"I am sick of playing the average white dude character. I’m just done with it. And I’m sick of playing a black stereotype," Gray stated.

"There's no reason that Marcus Fenix in Gears of War couldn't have been a black guy... Cole Train on his own, no harm no foul. But what is Cole Train? Cole Train is basically like every other effin’ black character in a video game. Like here comes the urban stereotype.

"Where is this 1990s - not even 2000 - black slang, where does this fit in this futuristic world that doesn’t even take place on Earth? They go really far to do a lot of fictional justifications for this culture that they’ve built, and they go right back to this urban stereotype for the black character."

Gray was keen to point out he was not attacking Epic Games, saying he thinks Gears of War is "fun and gorgeous". However, he added, "It’s just a lack of thought, right? All it does is reinforce dumb stereotypes and it sort of reinforces casual racism. It’s almost like, 'Cue the drum beat, here comes the black character.'"

He also had a few things to say about the work of Japanese developers: "Their take on black folks in games has generally been poor. It’s either been here’s this ’70s pimp, here’s ultra hip-hop dude, or here’s a straight-up thug.

"F***ing Barret in Final Fantasy VII - they put a gun on the guy’s arm. It’s just like, 'Yeah, black guy with built-in gun.' Okay, that’s really, really weird. So it’s generally been s*** characterisations that are way racist or way just hokey racist."

For more from Gray, including what he thinks about Grand Theft Auto San Andreas and the Resident Evil 5 trailer, read the full interview.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (166) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • crazyhorse174 #1 4 years ago

    Tell me this is a joke...

  • quantumsheep #2 4 years ago

    I actually couldn't agree more. Too many stereotypes in games *in general* though.

  • mikeck #3 4 years ago

    Hmmm, does this guy need to plug something...talk about bashing something for the sake of it...slow news day? ;)

  • the_dudefather #4 4 years ago

    attempting to think of any non-stereotyped black character in a video game.

    but can't

    edit:

    oh! Eli from HL2!
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 13:07

  • Aretak #5 4 years ago

    Yeah! Bring it on sucka! This my kind of shit!

  • thefilthandthefury #6 4 years ago

    Anyone who playes on Xbox Live and hears the Americans knows that this is a reality, not just a stereotype. Anyone offended by it is a complete moron.
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 13:04

  • mikeck #7 4 years ago

    Reading the full article makes a whole lot more sense now, doesn't seem like such a sensationalist set of viewpoints. Put those points into a short article like this one and it reads quite differently.

  • Apologie #8 4 years ago

    conspiracy theory... here we go again.

  • robg #9 4 years ago

    (assumes this isn't a joke...)

    What the hell is he talking about? A black guy with a gun for an arm is a stereotype? Planet Terror has a girl with a gun instead of a leg, should we be worried about women complaining about that being a stereotype?

    No, because generally most people are far more normal than that, and the nutters who complain should be ignored rather than pandered.

    Clearly he didn't see all of the stereotypical white meatheads in GoW. Or howabout the white nerd, Gordon Freeman.

  • bad09 #10 4 years ago

    I must admit it does always seem to be the typical white American hero in most games but personally I never see it as an issue as race never enters my mind playing games, until some twat screams about racism, like the RE5 trailer (and I'm mixed race).

    As for Cole Train being stereotypical? I never gave a second thought about his colour or the way he acted, just another tough marine type bloke stereotype, plus the whole bloody game is a stereotype you twat!

    I'm interested though any black guys here who see it as an issue in gaming?
    Edited by 2 at 10/04/08 @ 13:10

  • defdaz #11 4 years ago

    He's entitled to his opinion I guess. I can just imagine what his whining sounds like. Bet he sounds really pissy. One of those people you meet and immediately want to punch the crap out of. No?

  • jonchoo #12 4 years ago

    This coming from a guy who makes games that evolves around a stereotypical female? Okay...

  • agparrot #13 4 years ago

    Right, so I clicked the link to read about how bad stereotypes are, and down the left hand side is a huge advert with some Girl in it advertising 'Hooters Girls'... some sort of job involving:

    The Hooters Girl uniform consists of: White Hooters tank top, orange shorts, suntan hose, white socks, solid white shoes, brown Hooters pouch, name-tag and of course...a smile! The Hooters Girl uniform can not be changed or altered in any way. As well, the Hooters Girl uniform can not be sold to the public for any reason.

    Frankly, about as stereotypical a view of the airbrushed female as is possible.

    Presumably that is ok?

    Talk about double standards.

  • CheesecakeBobby #14 4 years ago

    Man, that shits all whack.

  • defdaz #15 4 years ago

    Man, that shits all whack.

    rofl :D

  • Dizzy #16 4 years ago

    Blame all the stupid rappers on TV. Case closed.

  • asphaltcowboy #17 4 years ago

    Seems odd to have a guy working on Tomb Raider talking about stereotypes :/

  • mossychops001 #18 4 years ago

    Whats wrong with NWA?

  • Madafunkola #19 4 years ago

    But "Fiddy" Cent: Bulletproof (was that the game's name?) is OK because he is a REAL urban meathead in REAL life?

  • B-Blu #20 4 years ago

    you guyz might not like to admit it, but hes right.. when it comes to games the racial thing still shows ..when last was an asian or black or whatever the hero of a game?.. its always a white dude.. then a black charcter gets tagged along like Cole Train.. im Black, but i dont really care bout this tho as long as i can show that im black in a game like GTAIV online where you get to create your own character onlline so all this dont bother me

  • PlugMonkey #21 4 years ago

    Gears of War was one giant macho stereotype. I think singling out the black macho stereotype is a bit of a stretch.

  • vegard #22 4 years ago

    a lot of artists embrace the whole black stereotype thing, so it's no surprise to find them in games either. the stereotypes that is, not the artists. i guess 50 cent could be regarded as both...

  • Waldo #23 4 years ago

    "I can't leave without my buddy Superfly!"

  • GamesConnoisseur #24 4 years ago

    The heroes in games are 99 percent white/male/organic life form!

    Sure there are odd exception and looking forward to playing Eastern European in GTAIV, the good way of handing responsibility for choice of hero is to put the power of custom avatar into the hand of player. Though that would not work for FMV unless in game engine cut scenes.

    Like quantumsheep said its not certain type that is being targeted, the games in general are full of sterotypes, everyone shares responsibility at what we reinforce in games.

  • asphaltcowboy #25 4 years ago

    Mirror's Edge is going to have an asian lady as the protagonist - I guess they double-win!

  • doubler #26 4 years ago

    i kind of agree with him
    they should add variety to the roles given to the black characters

  • Lemming81 #27 4 years ago

    This guy is actually singling the black characters out even more. 99% of characters in video games are stereotypes no matter what colour their skin. And usually, the stereotype is almost deliberate to conform with a 'macho appeal', certainly in Gears of War.

    They all take Michael Bay type movies as their inspiration. Look at the opening sequence to Transformers with the army guys in the helicopter. The whole scene is rife with racial stereotype. But it's a macho-Bay movie. It's low-brow entertainment - as are the games that he seems to be offended by.

    Instead of complaining about shallow entertainment getting it 'wrong' in his eyes, he should be looking at the more thought-provoking games that get it 'right'.

    Eli Vance, anyone? He's hardly a stereotype. And then, neither is Gordon Freeman. He's a ginger speccy scientist super hero, ffs.

  • menage #28 4 years ago

    Markus was a real prime example of a in depth character?!. Give me a break. The whole game reeks of stereotype. I mean the only woman on board stays in the fucking chopper.


  • Quint2020 #29 4 years ago

    "Anyone who playes on Xbox Live and hears the Americans knows that this is a reality, not just a stereotype. Anyone offended by it is a complete moron."

    QFT

  • thedaveeyres #30 4 years ago

    I saw the headline and assumed this would be an article on the portrayal of big gay bears in fps's. Virtually every FPS character is a big gay bear (apart from Gordon 'God bless his rapist glasses and beard' Freeman).

  • nickthegun #31 4 years ago

    WHOOOO!

  • hammerstein07 #32 4 years ago

    I too don't even think about race in games. Stereotypes are all around on TV, movies etc. It's not just games.

    I've read some of the comments on the full article (EGs extract makes it look a little more sensationalist than it is), and it's starting a full on discussion, which is actually a good thing. The only problem with pointing out the lack of black characters and trying to bring about initiatives to recruit more is going to cause more arguments, as witnessed in the comments on there.

    I'm for equality, we need some education first and to stop promoting the stereotypes in other forms of media, not just game.

  • Stormflood #33 4 years ago

    Do we really need deep characters in a game where the object is to blow the fuck out of aliens?

  • Waffleaber #34 4 years ago

    Quit yo' jibber-jabba fool!

  • Arnold__ #35 4 years ago

    Right, there is absolutely no reason why Marcus Phoenix could not have been a black, female, lesbian, disabled, muslim pensioner who is also HIV positive.

  • MightyMouse #36 4 years ago

    He's got a good point, just because games have rubbish storylines doesn't mean that they should keep rubbish offensive stereotypes. It's true that games tend to be sexist, but there's a bit more awareness with the issue of sexism in games (perhaps because it's even more blatant).

  • GitSomE_UK #37 4 years ago

    Well he has to be a tit if he takes Gears of war seriously.

    Idiot.

    I quite liked the Cole Train character in Gears, he made me laugh.

    As for stereotypes he should have complained to MTV about MTV and it's rap stars before targeting games.

  • Lukus #38 4 years ago

    Funny, I never really saw Barratt in FFVII as black. As for Gears of War, all the characters are huge stereotypes. I think his examples are poor.

  • tomb85 #39 4 years ago

    Perhaps i'm being a bit dim but i always thought Barret was just a homage to Mr T.

  • gaselite #40 4 years ago

    I see the whiteys are out in force on EG today

  • Kryon #41 4 years ago

    The guy is using a crap example, as others have pointed out, every character in gears is a stereotype and Cole Train was no different, it's not like he came rollin out in a pimped out ride bouncin up and down on hydraulics while eating KFC so I don't see the problem. I do think it would be nice to have a bit more variety in character though tbh. It does get a bit dull always having to be the guy from Uncharted in every single action game ever made...

  • Stonker #42 4 years ago

    What would a non-stereotypical black person look like?

  • Eraysor #43 4 years ago

    Dyne from FFVII had a gun on his arm, and he wasn't black. Argument fails!

  • Nithron #44 4 years ago

    Casual racism is what you do when you're hanging around in your trendy minimalistic flat with your hot-looking model girlfriends, ridiculous fake grins plastered across your faces.

    Or did i just misunderstand that Wii advertising campaign?

  • SBfistfun #45 4 years ago

    Shut the fuck up you whining prick

  • 4thVariety #46 4 years ago

    Hmmm sterotypes in videogames?

    You must be talking about Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Women, Japanese Women in particular, and all Fantasy Races ever created.

    Other than that, no there is noooooooo stereotyping whatsoever. Wait... ...oh.. ...ok... ...I feel somewhat depressed of Whites being always portrayed as hunky, street-wise, world-saving members of a master race. *checks mirror*, *curses fate*, *asks himself what all this stereotyping says about the creators of these games*

  • jachap #47 4 years ago

    Immediately after he goes on the massive rant about Cole Train, he says this: 'In “Halo 3” there’s the black Sarge. He’s fine, he’s the military archetype, but that’s great. That’s what the game is about. Here’s a bunch of military stereotypes in the future.'

    Which shows how ineptly crafted his argument is. Marcus and the rest are quite clearly military stereotypes too, the only difference being that the guys at Epic obviously watched more Predator than Aliens when they were young.

    He applies the same double standards to GTA. GTA3 is fine, apparently, because people don't play it and think all Italian Americans are gangsters but those same people can't make that distinction with black people and gangsta culture.

    Another main point - and I just skimmed to the most interesting parts - was that "Valve could have made Gordon Freeman black." His point being - why not? It makes no difference to the fiction.

    That seems to be making an issue out of, well, nothing. If it makes no difference - what's the point?

    Finally - and most importantly, I think - he works mainly on Tomb Raider. Fucking Tomb Raider. And in an interview about stereotyping Lara's name doesn't even come up.

    EDIT: However, I do agree with him about Cole Train being not only a stereotype but - in terms of the setting - an anachronistic one. He was still immensely more entertaining than all the other characters, though.
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 15:26

  • GitSomE_UK #48 4 years ago

    What would a non-stereotypical black person look like?

    Umm Trevor McDonald from ITN news?

  • jack_klugman #49 4 years ago

    An owl.

  • Snarky #50 4 years ago

    Tekken has black ninja and a black Thai boxer, neither of which say "dawg!". So there's two examples for you. Namco seem to be trying a bit harder with black characters.

  • rudedudejude #51 4 years ago

    eating kfc lol.

    Leeeeerrroy!

  • Xerx3s #52 4 years ago

    ""I am sick of playing the average white dude character. I’m just done with it. And I’m sick of playing a black stereotype," Gray stated."

    Ah so he doesn't want to play a black or white stereotype. Newsflash: media is about ionisation which leads to stereotyping. If you don't do the cartoon thing, you create a realistic thing.

    EDIT: Everything is a stereotype. Most people don't even realise how far this goes.
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 13:58

  • anomagnus #53 4 years ago

    i dont notice the color of the games characters, and surely thats the point

    i shouldn't be giving people any attention for the color of their skin, positive or negative

    and white stereotypes are just as prevelant - the white mass murder, the italian mob boss, the irish boozer, the uk thug/upper class twit, the yank dummy, COD 4 for example was PACKED with stereotypes

    why is it acceptable for there to be white stereotypes, but not black ones?

  • slivir #54 4 years ago

    What would he rather black guys be portrayed as? Soft-spoken, girly, spikey haired boys from a jrpg? I'll keep my cole train and barret stereotypes tyvm! (and why the hell not?! Those guys were awesome).

    Plus it's a game for Christ's sake. You see the same shit in all media these days.

  • Bitkari #55 4 years ago

    You're not suggesting that Gears might just be another Frat-boy Space Marines running through gritty corridors shooting aliens game are you? How very dare you!

    I think you'll find that Gears of War is an incredibly original game set in a wholly unique and not at all desperately derivative game world. It's full of interesting characters and has a deep, multi-faceted, and highly intellectual storyline.

    I can't wait for what 2 Gears 2 Furious of War will bring! Exciting times!

  • doubler #56 4 years ago

    what alot of people are not getting is the fact there is very few roles a black guy has in video games
    i dont really care what colour the main character is as long as the game is good

  • Fwing #57 4 years ago

    Thank god this guy didn't play UT3.

    But he does have a point. There are huge numbers of lazy racial stereotypes in games. Or just lazy stereotypes in general.

    Ragging on him for working on TR is just stupid though. If that was lazy and stereotypical Lara would stay at home washing her husbands clothes all day and playing The Sims in her spare time.

  • Zomoniac #58 4 years ago

    Doesn't Samus have a gun built into her arm? Such a white woman stereotype.

  • asphaltcowboy #59 4 years ago

    "Thank god this guy didn't play UT3."

    lmao! So true! :D

  • Zomoniac #60 4 years ago

    Also he failed to mention the only games that I in any way find questionable. Every time I finish a Tom Clancy game I feel the writers want me to believe that all Mexicans are president-napping terrorists who will shoot me on sight. That's as close to racism as I've felt a game has come. The rest stereotype because it's easy, and they do it with white people as well.

    Actually, maybe it is more rife than I'd feared. Last night I was playing FIFA 08, and Thierry Henry, a black man, managed to outpace Gary Neville, a white man. This just reinforces the 'black men are faster' stereotype. And in Fight Night, Mohammed Ali is the best fighter, and in Tiger Woods, the eponymous character is the best golfer. Clearly EA are just repeating the 'black men are better athletes' stereotype and are all a bunch of racists.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #61 4 years ago

    I too was disappointed that he wasn't talking about the "Gays of War" stereotyping. That's a seriously camp game! Even the achievements are camp ("Dom-curious"? "I Can't Quit You Dom?";).

    It's an interesting interview. I don't agree with him 100%, but he raises some interesting points. Although I disagree that everyone assumes games to be made by "white cats and Japanese cats". I figure the percentage of ethnic minorities in games development is probably the same as in most other office work.

    Also, on the subject of "colour-blind" black characters, the lead in Urban Chaos is a black woman, and I don't remember there being anything stereotypical about her (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

  • ZuluHero #62 4 years ago

    "F***ing Barret in Final Fantasy VII - they put a gun on the guy’s arm. It’s just like, 'Yeah, black guy with built-in gun.' Okay, that’s really, really weird. So it’s generally been s*** characterisations that are way racist or way just hokey racist."

    Actually Dyne, the guy barret faces at the end of the old Corel section (Corel Prison - under the Gold Saucer) , is a white guy, with a gun on his arm.

    Explain that one.

    /geek mode off
    Edited by 5 at 10/04/08 @ 14:41

  • septimus #63 4 years ago

    Dolly. Pram. Thrown.

  • Ryze #64 4 years ago

    Same old shit - it's a fact of life. "Clowns and Criminals" - bear that phrase in mind because that's what the UK media industry does with black characters and the majority of black presenters on TV.

    The others mustn't fit the desired image. But games and media in general portray stereotypes!

  • neilka #65 4 years ago

    At the end of the day, the only thing that can be really said about this

    LOOK AT ALL DAT JUICE

  • Olemak #66 4 years ago

    There were some african americans in CoD 4 too; they were all right werent they?

    BTW: I am currently re-playing Oblivion with a black character.
    Redguards have the best endurance and strenght starting stats.
    So they are great melee fighters, and crap at magic - low int and wil.
    Is that racist too?

  • Kryon #67 4 years ago

    @Fwing

    "Ragging on him for working on TR is just stupid though. If that was lazy and stereotypical Lara would stay at home washing her husbands clothes all day and playing The Sims in her spare time."

    No, that would be realistic, not stereotypical. Lara is most definitely the most stereotypical female games character of all time. Huge bewbs - Check! Nice arse - Check! Wears skimpy clothes - Check....That's about it...

  • 3william56 #68 4 years ago

    Black guy called Coal.

    Nope, no racism there... 0_o

    Gears 2 COG squad to be led by Master Sgt. Honky Cracker, with squad members Cpl Nip "Slanty" Kawasaki, Lt. Jude "Moneybags" Goldberg, Pt. Cochise "Red" Hiawatha, and Ms. Les "Fat, Ugly, Butch Hairdo" Van Dyke.

  • Darren #69 4 years ago

    Gears of War's characters are all (2D) stereotypes if you ask me, at no point while I played the game did they strike me as being even remotely believeable. They're just the usual bunch of dumb cliches that usually surface in American made shooters. Epic certainly aren't the only ones guilty of this.

    Mind you, I did love the homoerotic undertones... now that was different... ;)

  • alimokrane #70 4 years ago

    Ok ... eurogamer, this is getting tiresome! Stop posting these crap stories to get people to show up and post something ... it's getting old ... yeah we get it, some idiots think games are bad, games are racist, games are .... spare us!

  • ruttyboy #71 4 years ago

    I for one didn't realise cats were so heavily involved in game development. And people say they're just lazy scroungers!

  • krudster #72 4 years ago

    This obsessive hand-wringing need to be politically correct about every little thing is possibly the most tedious facet of modern life.

    And yet, I haven't met a single person who wasn't bigoted about something. It usually just surfaces somewhere else. Get over it.

  • Rirekon #73 4 years ago

    I do love this argument;
    "Look, see this game here, it's made of stereotypes, and I really hate that one of them is black!"
    Cry me a river, do you hear "white"-Brits complaining that they are always cast as villains in American films?

    He obviously needs to take a wider look at the industry too, for instance Crackdown had a whole line-up of different nationalities to play and Oblivion gives you the full spectrum of colours.

    Also, as others have pointed out, could you be any more hypocritical given the big-breasted, small waisted, athletic heroine of your own games?

  • montdidier #74 4 years ago

    I agree with him for the most part. It did irk me when he started using the word "cats". Does he become a stereotype himself by using the word "cats"? I mean really.
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 15:28

  • Stonker #75 4 years ago

    I think we've all learned a very valuable lesson here today. I'm just not sure what it is.

  • Nithron #76 4 years ago

    Olemak: The black guy in CoD 4 starts spotaneously rapping at the end of the game, i think that's pretty stereotypical

  • AtomicBanana #77 4 years ago

    The train is at home on the rails.

  • hoos30 #78 4 years ago

    anomagnus wrote: "why is it acceptable for there to be white stereotypes, but not black ones? "

    The POINT is that devs should have some balance in the characterizations. When there are only 2 or 3 black video game characters or avatars per year, it gets a little weary when they all come out of Sterotype Central Casting.

    The video game industry wants to be seen as a maturing and artistic medium on par with books and film, but somehow still wants to cling to the art and sub-culture that existed when John Carmack was creating Doom.

    There will alway be a place for the white, bald, space marine, trust me, but games will have to diversify in content and, frankly, in staffing, if they hope to continue to appeal to a wider, global audience.

  • penhalion #79 4 years ago

    Stereotypes are NOT the nature of this business. The problem is that we are far behind movies and television for portraying positive black, asian and even in some circumstances southern white americans in games. Mainly it's because we don't think the games will sell as well with minority lead characters (clearly a lot of game company managers have never seen a Will Smith or Samuel Jackson movie).

    Here's the bottom line though. If you really can't see the casual racism in a lot of games then you are probably already a racist because only someone who doesn't have black, asian etc. etc. friends would find the portrayal of those races even slightly based on reality. Example: Ask yourself how many people who look or talk like Cole Train have you ever seen or known in your lifetime?

    I'm now in my thirties and I don't know or ever rememeber meeting a single one!

  • ruttyboy #80 4 years ago

    Whenever I come across a character such as Coal Train I don't think see it as a black stereotype, I only see it as an American stereotype. And as someone has already said, judging by Live a sadly correct one. Besides it's not just laziness that means that most games characters are the same (ie. American) it's a concious decision to appeal to their most important market.

  • MrChuckles #81 4 years ago

    Fable has 2 black characters in it, and they were both heroes. I don't remember them being particularly stereotypical, annoying maybe?

  • Rodafowa #82 4 years ago

    Well, that settles it then. If a bunch of middle-class white guys don't notice any casual racism in games then there can't be any, can there?

    Jesus fucking wept.
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 16:07

  • ZuluHero #83 4 years ago

    "Example: Ask yourself how many people who look or talk like Cole Train have you ever seen or known in your lifetime?"

    One. And it isn't Cole in case you were wondering! But is it because my friend is black or because he is an American? And which would be the stereotype?

    This is all getting very confusing :S

  • gruntboy #84 4 years ago

    "way racist or way just hokey racist."

    And there you go, stereotyping yourself in print. /win!

  • php_penguin #85 4 years ago

    Wait, isn't black guys complaining about really tiny amount of racism stereotypical? Or maybe I'm missing the point...

  • HyperShadow #86 4 years ago

    Play Ikaruga, you play as an uber space ship and can be black or white at will. Racial Equality with no stereotypes and no human main character (unless you delve into the story a bit)

  • Kryon #87 4 years ago

    "you play as an uber space ship and can be black or white at will"

    Is it Michael Jacksons ship by any chance?

  • HyperShadow #88 4 years ago

    "Is it Michael Jacksons ship by any chance?"

    No, thats Space Channel 5

  • Ninja_Tino #89 4 years ago

    I'm not a fan of being called a white cat.

  • RandolphScott #90 4 years ago

    Wow...just wow!

    Do you people know the difference between a sterotype and an offensive stereotype?

  • Gaol #91 4 years ago

    The guy quoted in the article sounds like he has zero sense of humour. The white character in GoW is as much a stereotypical jock.

    I can't believe he complained about Barret's gun arm - the same game has a cat with a megaphone riding a stuffed animal. I mean FFS.

    Oh and /agree with whoever said policical correctness is one of the worst things about modern Britain. I fucking hate Edge magazine's obsession with 'female' gamers and videogames catering to 'broader' audiences. Who gives a fuck - write shit for the people who already love the medium.

    Excuse the French :p
    Edited by 1 at 10/04/08 @ 17:33

  • Yaz #92 4 years ago

    *backs away s-l-o-w-l-y*

  • Rodafowa #93 4 years ago

    This obsessive hand-wringing need to be politically correct about every little thing is possibly the most tedious facet of modern life.
    The thing I dislike most about modern life is that "politically correct" seems to have become a pejorative. How bloody tedious it is to try and show respect for other people, after all.

  • Gaol #94 4 years ago

    'Politcally correct' does not equal showing respect for others.

  • foamy #95 4 years ago

    WUT THE FUCK? He's the one showing racism by actually caring about these minor things. If a black guy is in the game, it's racism, if it's not it's also racism. If he wears a gun, like ALL the other characters, it's racism. FFS.

  • CARL05 #96 4 years ago

    'Cue the drum beat, here comes the black character.'

    lol! He said it, I can't remember anything like that in a game!

    But he does have some points except in basically all games and films there have to be stereotypes to make it look right.
    If Cole Train was walking around talking posh everyone would be laughing!

  • hulkamania78 #97 4 years ago

    this is a disgrace, all games have different races/creeds /colours etc. it does my head in when people come out saying stuff like this. I am mixed race and I know loads of 50 cent wannabes using all the slang etc attached with it. cause its cool.

    comments like this are racial taunting. there expecting a reaction and always get it. I and any white /black/ red / purple person can speak whatever they like but dont tell me black people are overlooked in video games cause there not.

    Why dont we talk about the MOBO's a black music award which gives one white musician award out (if thats not racist what is).

    As a mixed race person if white people had a white music award the ethnic minorities would be up in arms. Its just the old race card but more ethnic people are using this now to win an argument/ get noticed. There is racism in the world no doubt about it but my black brothers can be as racist and as biggoted as billy bob down on his south kentucky farm.

    grow up man you got the reaction but its pathetic. rant pover

  • Kryon #98 4 years ago

    Errr-body inda club gittin tipz. Or so J-Kwon says..

  • bdc #99 4 years ago

    I do actually agree with him. Blacks are so stereotyped in video games it's unreal. The only non-stereotype I can think of is Eli Vance in Half Life 2 - when I absolutely cannot think of any other examples from 15 years of game, I think that's absolutely sad.

  • Kryon #100 4 years ago

    "Why dont we talk about the MOBO's a black music award which gives one white musician award out (if thats not racist what is). "

    I know, damn it! How are us black people supposed to win the one white musician award FFS! ;)

  • WillyWanka #101 4 years ago

    What have the darkies ever done for us?

  • Rodafowa #102 4 years ago

    'Politcally correct' does not equal showing respect for others.

    That's exactly what it means in this context. It's about acknowledging the fact that as a relatively affluent white male I'm in a position of quite astonishing privilege through no special merit of my own - in this case, that games are designed expressly to cater to the tastes of my peers, which is why 90% of female characters are pouting airbrushed ornaments and 90% of black characters are capering bloody stereotypes. It's about realising and bloody well respecting that other people are going to be legitimately irritated and/or offended by these things.

  • Ryze #103 4 years ago

    Britain generally pretends that racism doesn't exist - when it's in front of their faces, while America makes a fucking huge issue of race all the time.

    That's my experience, anyway.

    Stay in denial, guys! Of course none of it matters and it's all acceptable, just sweep it under the carpet as usual!!!

    /gets on with making money and living life

  • kissthestick #104 4 years ago

    i cant remember the last decent black video game character actually :(

  • Gaol #105 4 years ago

    "'Politcally correct' does not equal showing respect for others.

    That's exactly what it means in this context. It's about acknowledging the fact that as a relatively affluent white male I'm in a position of quite astonishing privilege through no special merit of my own - in this case, that games are designed expressly to cater to the tastes of my peers, which is why 90% of female characters are pouting airbrushed ornaments and 90% of black characters are capering bloody stereotypes. It's about realising and bloody well respecting that other people are going to be legitimately irritated and/or offended by these things. "

    Are you an Edge hack?

    What the hell is wrong with catering to the tastes of white males? Most male characters in British soap operas are bloody doormats. Does that offend me? I couldn't give a fuck, our demographic lost prime time telly a decade ago and I never watch it.

    If you're identity and tastes makes you feel so bloody guilty it ain't my problem. Me, I really enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR, and I couldn't give a toss if black/female/gay/etc people also do; and if what I'm playing offends them.

    I'm not asking them to watch. Of course if they also enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR I'll play co-op with them anytime.
    Edited by 2 at 10/04/08 @ 20:21

  • BigJonno #106 4 years ago

    Showing respect is treating people the same regardless of their race. Political correctness is calling a black board a chalk board so you don't offend someone.

  • mr_ruberfon #107 4 years ago

    jesus, these comments are frightening.
    he's saying that there are about four black characters in the whole of gaming, and they all seem to be based on snoop fucking dogg. and he's right, baring the odd notable exception

  • SimonM7 #108 4 years ago

    Well if he hadn't be a stereotype he wouldn't fit the general theme for the character design; generic. Would've stood out like a sore thumb.

  • The-Bodybuilder #109 4 years ago

    I was laughing my head off. This is so funny, but I dare anyone to say he is lying or got it wrong (especially the japanese dev bit).

  • layleeloo #110 4 years ago

    What a load of SHIT!!!!!!!!! This is yet again the same old people complaining about the same old thing. Wether right or wrong, stereotyping exists in all works of life, as does prejudice. It will never be eliminated as its a vicious circle. Racism can be worsened by poeple like him saying blacks are being persecuted once again!!!!!!! Makes me sick. Hers an example

    MOBO awards - about BLACK music. Black and Hindu TV channels (URBAN stuff etc), you get the idea - I could list all day but I won't. Do you EVER see "Music of WHITE origin Awards" No. Do we have White only TV channels. No.

    Do we sit and moan we dont have our own things with the words WHITE in. No we dont. We just bloody get on with it and listen to everyone else complain.

    Cos there would be a fuckin national riot. The racism card is played so wrongfully these days it is untrue. And the sooner people like him realise he is makeing people more racist by the enourmous chip on his shoulder then it will never improve. All people are sterotyped in games. If they were not, all characters would be the bloody same but with different skin colour. So, we could have the white man takin jive, the Japanese man taking Africaan, The Hindu taking australian - would that make people happy? No - it would be ridiculous. It is what it is. The sooner people stop pulling the racist card on sit like this, the sooner racism will die down and the more people wlll be happy. Like all life, its a vicious circle.

  • The-Bodybuilder #111 4 years ago

    I love it. All the insightful comments in this thread.
    Made mostly by white surburanite gamers. Yes, the insight in this place is deep.

  • The-Bodybuilder #112 4 years ago

    I still remember the outcry when GTA:SA was based in the city, using an urban setting and a black character.

  • The-Bodybuilder #113 4 years ago

    >"He's the one showing racism by actually caring about these minor things."

    Are you thick or something?

  • The-Bodybuilder #114 4 years ago

    >"Britain generally pretends that racism doesn't exist - when it's in front of their faces, while America makes a fucking huge issue of race all the time."

    That's pretty much my view too.
    In the US of A, any small thing will become a racist debate (like the lebron james magazine cover). Here in the UK? Well, you get threads like this.

  • Xensor #115 4 years ago

    Sensationalist journalism aside he does make a fair point. Case in point is Drake's Fortune where you play, unsurprisingly, that favourite of gaming the clean cut all american white guy. Then there's the standard white love interest and a aging white sidekick for a bit of exposition and comic relief. However every single person you shoot is either black, hispanic or oriental. Frankly its surprising they didn't shoehorn in some arabs to round off the set. The ONLY white person you shoot is the big baddie but he's english so not technically white in the american sense :p

    Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be.

  • Gaol #116 4 years ago

    I think 'The Bodybuilder's insulting spam sums up the situation nicely.

    The really intolerant section of society are in fact the bleeding heart politically correct liberals. He himself is cleary prejudiced against 'white surburanite (sic) gamers'. How fucking dare they speak their voice, those stupid ignorant cunts!

  • CaptCastle #117 4 years ago

    Hey Cole, this race debate is almost as big as you!

    Almos'

  • Rodafowa #118 4 years ago

    Are you an Edge hack?

    What the hell is wrong with catering to the tastes of white males? Most male characters in British soap operas are bloody doormats. Does that offend me? I couldn't give a fuck, our demographic lost prime time telly a decade ago and I never watch it.

    If you're identity and tastes makes you feel so bloody guilty it ain't my problem. Me, I really enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR, and I couldn't give a toss if black/female/gay/etc people also do; and if what I'm playing offends them.

    I'm not asking them to watch. Of course if they also enjoy SHOOTING THE FUCK OUT OF STUFF PLAYING GEARS OF WAR I'll play co-op with them anytime.

    So to sum up, you're completely OK with anybody liking anything they want, so long as everything is still being run for your benefit?

    Well, to coin a phrase - that's mighty white of you, mister.

  • Rodafowa #119 4 years ago

    The really intolerant section of society are in fact the bleeding heart politically correct liberals. He himself is cleary prejudiced against 'white surburanite (sic) gamers'. How fucking dare they speak their voice, those stupid ignorant cunts!

    Yeah, man. Let's not lose sight of who's really got a legitimate grievance, eh?

    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

  • Gaol #120 4 years ago

    @Rodofawa

    You're posts speaks volumes mate.

    "So to sum up, you're completely OK with anybody liking anything they want, so long as everything is still being run for your benefit? "

    Eh?, who mentioned 'everything'?; I'm just talking about videogames like Gears of War which are aimed at a certain demographic. Whats wrong with media aimed at 20s/30s white males? Do you hear me moaning about Wii games aimed at 7 year olds or housewives?

    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

    That statement there is out and out racist. White males aren't allowed 'greviances'? I don't even have a 'greviance', I'm just stating that there's nowt wrong with these videogames as they are, aimed at my demographic. I don't see anything inherently good about changing that media so it is aimed at someone else. By all means make games for other types of gamer if there is a demand - a la Nintendo - but that doesn't mean you have to do away with the style of games many of us enjoy and critcize them because they don't conform to your politically correct facist creed.

    People like you make me want to shit blood.

  • RazorObsession #121 4 years ago

    Look, racism is bad and all, but until i see a black videogame character walking around with a bucket of chicken, as far as I'm concerned, they are fictional characters, stylized to fit the theme of a game, aimed at a certain demographic or audience. From the movies i have watched, and the black people i have met, black folks love their individuality, so any black character you design is going to step on somebodies toes in RL. same goes for white folks i guess, but i aint heard their voice of protest, or at least some dude protesting for them.

    Come on now people, black and white, theres REAL racism in the real world, and then theres looking for any old fucking excuse to get uppity about shit.

    Would it make a difference if the game was programmed by an entirely black team? would it therefore become acceptable, like the black racism found in some black comedians stand up routines?

    its ok to laugh at the racist black jokes now because they are told by a black guy? Its ok that the routine is targeting 'niggers' (Chris Rock i'm a lookin at you) as he balances it out by having a little tirade against red neck inbreeding crackers at the end to maintain some semblance of balance?

    did a single white person complain at the end of his routine? i doubt it, its a fucking comedy routine, its entertainment, and they are just words and images. they cant hurt you can they? they cant change your life can they?

    if they really do affect your brain and you simply cannot live with this stuff existing in the same world as you do, then fuck me, you have no life of which to speak and all of your priorities are a bit fucked up. i suggest counseling or a mental asylum, cause the world is not going to change just for you. deal with it.

    P.S. San Andreas was my favorite GTA, and it made me feel like a reverse Micheal Jackson. or something.

  • teknohead #122 4 years ago

    Stranglehold - Tough as nuts asian dude ruining ppls shit
    Sims 2 - You can be a blacky without any penalties at all!


    I rest my case, the world is very diverse and nobody has and hard feelings towards the darkies.

  • Ryze #123 4 years ago

    Ahhh... modern Britain

    /whistles 'Rule Britannia'

  • dk_rare #124 4 years ago

    Morgan Gray is a fool if he thinks he can stop the Cole Train. The Cole Train stops for no one, least of all a snivelling videogame loving cracker who speaks to MTV.

  • dk_rare #125 4 years ago

    And if I really was "the average white guy" from Gears of War, I might actually have no trouble finding a date. But personally none of the white guys I know are buffed out meatheads with no necks : (

  • Kill_Crazy #126 4 years ago

    Not having a black lead character in a game isn't racist. Isn't the person who notices, and makes a song and dance about it, the racist for even noticing? Besides, someone has to voice act these parts so are the black voice actors racist too?

  • Kill_Crazy #127 4 years ago

    @Rodafowa

    You wrote:

    'Yeah, man. Let's not lose sight of who's really got a legitimate grievance, eh?
    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..." '
    and
    'Well, to coin a phrase - that's mighty white of you, mister.'

    Are these not racist?

  • Ryze #128 4 years ago

    Yeah, saying white makes you racist, saying black makes you racist, that's right...er...

  • Ryze #129 4 years ago

    Yeah, he's really complaining about the lead guy not being black, isn't he? Yeah right.

    Yeah, yeah, he must want all video games characters to be black! He wants to rule the world!!!! Oh Noes!!!!

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, he must want them all to act like posh people - the black characters - he must want that even though it's not realistic at all...

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah - he has a chip on his shoulder!!! Why is he offended at seeing loads of n*ggers acting like n*ggers?!?!?
    That's what they act like on Xbox live!!!

    All of those kids on there who probably listen to and show off like 50 Cent... oh wait?!?
    Edited by 1 at 11/04/08 @ 08:42

  • The-Bodybuilder #130 4 years ago

    >"But personally none of the white guys I know are buffed out meatheads with no necks :"

    I can't see many girls liking the marcus fenix look.
    But it's different for dom, He's a latino, and girls loves them some LATINO HEAT. They would probably want him to be thier papi.

  • The-Bodybuilder #131 4 years ago

    >"Not having a black lead character in a game isn't racist. Isn't the person who notices, and makes a song and dance about it, the racist for even noticing."

    I'm amazed at the amount of people who don't even know what racism is.
    Speaks volumes about some of the comments here.

  • Kryon #132 4 years ago

    "I'm amazed at the amount of people who don't even know what racism is.
    Speaks volumes about some of the comments here."

    Is it if you don't like teh Gooks?

  • Lemming81 #133 4 years ago

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that this tool is a fucking game developer. Instead of moaning about it he could design the games he's talking about.

    Personally I think he's just pissed GoW was successful and whatever shit Tomb Raider game he's responsible for (probably Angel of Darkness) flopped.

  • StJude #134 4 years ago

    Would you listen to yourselves? You're picking out fairly obscure games just to 'prove' he's wrong. It's that kind of overly defensive attitude that more or less, to me anyway, lends a lot of weigh to what he' s saying. Also, to all the people saying that it's 'okay' in games because stereotypes exist in the media and other artistic forms, why don't we applaud those who try and set a new precedent in computer games, because that might just prove to those who look down on the video game that it's a viable and respectable medium that's setting out to change preconceptions, rather than parrot them.

  • Lemming81 #135 4 years ago

    @StJude: "You're picking out fairly obscure games just to 'prove' he's wrong"


    Yes, Half-Life 2 is as obscure as it gets...o_O

  • Kryon #136 4 years ago

    This is the thing, is stereotyping necessarily racist? The answer is no. Is a negative stereo type racist? Possibly, yes. In the context of the game (Gears), is Cole Train a negative stereotype? No, he isn't. He is in fact a hero trying to save us from evil locust aliens.

    I don't see the problem. I pidy you fools!

  • StJude #137 4 years ago

    Yeah, that's a constructive argument you've got there. Pick up on one point I made and counter that, rather than offering a rebuttal to the whole argument. It's kinda telling. Actually, you know what, I think I'm gonna do as another did.

    *backs away slowly*

  • quantumsheep #138 4 years ago

    I am just amazed by some of the comments here. Seriously, too shocked to write any more on it.

    /hides

  • bad09 #139 4 years ago

    Some of these comments are unbelievable!

    I mean seriously if a white guy designing a game character makes his character white is he racist? His making a statement? The truth is no, he probably isn't giving it a second thought. What about Capcom with Resi 5, are they racist because black people are the infected because the game is set in a country where black people live this time? PC prats read too much into it (as per usual).

    I have to say Rodafowa and The Bodybuilders comments are the most insulting here and sound like they have big chips on their shoulders!

    @ Rodafowa
    From the comments I have read I can only see that it is you who is prejudiced here (by the way I'm neither middle class or white).

    @ The Bodybuilder
    your comments on how Britain ignores racism?? Absolute rubbish friend, true we had problems with racism many years ago (which I myself suffered) but we have come a long way since then. I might add that in Britain it's not just white people who are racist either. I know many black and asian people and find them to be the most racist people I know.

    But there in lies the problem that no one talks about. It's not OK for white people to be racist but it's OK for others to be racist to white people. For example A black/asian comedian can poke fun at whites and even themselves but if a white person makes fun of them there is hell to pay. Or the MOBOs, I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards".

    It is this fundamental double standard that CAUSES the hate (from what the white people I know say). more so than the actual colour of anyones skin.

  • Kryon #140 4 years ago

    "I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards"

    Erm...A load of guys playing the lute and harp perhaps?

  • layleeloo #141 4 years ago

    Xensor's QUOTE

    "Sensationalist journalism aside he does make a fair point. Case in point is Drake's Fortune where you play, unsurprisingly, that favourite of gaming the clean cut all american white guy. Then there's the standard white love interest and a aging white sidekick for a bit of exposition and comic relief. However every single person you shoot is either black, hispanic or oriental. Frankly its surprising they didn't shoehorn in some arabs to round off the set. The ONLY white person you shoot is the big baddie but he's english so not technically white in the american sense :p

    Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be. "

    This isnt an attack on one persons comment but just using an example as I actually agree with the comment. I do not dissagree with this comment however I owuld like to point out that - FREQUENTLY in games people say similar things - but you know what, if a white person travels to an amozonian country or wherever something is set of different race, the people who live there are going to be a different colout arnt they. So Uncharted like everything else could be deemed racist. If they made a game about an African coming to England to fight bad guys - guess what, they will be white?! The kilelr will be black. Is it racist? Is it heck. Its heritage. Its the same as the Tin Tin debate like Tin Tin goes to the amazon and media complaining all the baddies are black. THEYRE IN THE BLOODY AMAZON!! Theyre not gonna be white are they.

    Thats what people keep missing. So if the main character in Uncharted was black, or mexican - then it wouldnt be racist? Its a bit of a strange debate isnt it. Whatever country you visit in a game - the country will reflect the race - so to prevent this debate they will have to make all residents of all countries in a game - the same race as the main charater? Utter bollocks.

    So - like the good man Xensor says "Bottom line is casual stereotyping is rife in gaming and probably always will be. " Nuff said
    Edited by 1 at 11/04/08 @ 11:14

  • bad09 #142 4 years ago

    @ Kryon

    "I dread to think what would happen if you had the "music of white origin awards"

    Erm...A load of guys playing the lute and harp perhaps?

    LOL! :)

  • Kryon #143 4 years ago

    "So Uncharted like everything else could be deemed racist."

    Yeah, on that note, would anyone care to explain why the bad guys in uncharted are dressed in 'hood' clothes when the game clearly isn't set in the hood? Baggy jeans, white 'sneaks', sock hats, gold chains and 'urban' style tattoos? It did strike me as a little out of place...

  • bad09 #144 4 years ago

    @ Kryon

    Not played it myself but that does sound pretty stupid, but the hood is a jungle blood :)

  • Kryon #145 4 years ago

    @bad09

    I hear that, homez. ;)

  • Rodafowa #146 4 years ago

    Eh?, who mentioned 'everything'?; I'm just talking about videogames like Gears of War which are aimed at a certain demographic. Whats wrong with media aimed at 20s/30s white males? Do you hear me moaning about Wii games aimed at 7 year olds or housewives?

    So... do I have your position right, here? That black people didn't have the right to complain about how they were portrayed on, say, The Black And White Minstrel Show because it wasn't aimed at them?

    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

    That statement there is out and out racist.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

    White males aren't allowed 'greviances'? I don't even have a 'greviance', I'm just stating that there's nowt wrong with these videogames as they are, aimed at my demographic. I don't see anything inherently good about changing that media so it is aimed at someone else. By all means make games for other types of gamer if there is a demand - a la Nintendo - but that doesn't mean you have to do away with the style of games many of us enjoy and critcize them because they don't conform to your politically correct facist creed.

    If you can point out a single post where I've advocated "doing away" with any style of game, or indeed changing the demographic they're targetted at, you'll win a coconut.

    There's a world of difference between "content aimed at young white men" and "content that exclusively treats women and minorities as objects of amusement for young white men". Jesus, why am I even having to point that out?

    "Facist creed". Good God almighty.

    People like you make me want to shit blood.

    People like you just make me tired and sad, to be honest.

  • Widge #147 4 years ago

    The way I see this is that gaming does have habit of sticking generic stereotyped characters into the same old cliched situations. Banging on about the racism of it all is the wrong way to go about it, because all people will do is read the word racism and then begin on a frothy rant on every topic under the sun.

    This is yet another article on the theme of the way gaming, huge as it is, is lacking behind the likes of film as a form of media.

    I can't think of the last time we had a really iconic, stand out character in gaming. I mean look at Master Chief for an example. He is a hulking faceless green spaceman with barely any dialogue flair.

    Games coming along which tell a story that genuinely entertains and follows a non-standard path are very few and far between. I'd love to play something which has the impact of, say, watching Fight Club for the first time.

    I think Final Fantasy 7 provided my last "whoa" moment, I mean one main gameplay character gets killed off, and two others put out of action for a decent portion of the game. That just wasn't what happened in games.

  • Ryze #148 4 years ago

    @bad09

    "your comments on how Britain ignores racism?? Absolute rubbish friend, true we had problems with racism many years ago (which I myself suffered) but we have come a long way since then. I might add that in Britain it's not just white people who are racist either. I know many black and asian people and find them to be the most racist people I know.

    But there in lies the problem that no one talks about. It's not OK for white people to be racist but it's OK for others to be racist to white people..."

    DUH - ARE YOU STUPID??? That's what I would call... BRITAIN IGNORING RACISM!

  • bad09 #149 4 years ago

    @ Ryze

    Yeah I see what you mean :)

    But from his post he was implying a white racism problem which we ignore which is simply untrue.
    Edited by 1 at 11/04/08 @ 12:45

  • Ryze #150 4 years ago

    Racism genreally is brushed under the carpet along with the drugs issue (what the fuck is going on with Winehouse and Doherty, etc?!?!?), the kids having sex issue, teenage crime and poor inner city school performance, us having to sort out our own border controls and immigration policy instead of blaming poor people for picking the easiest country to migrate to...

    It's all to the detriment of the nation...

    /rants about the downfall of society...

  • bad09 #151 4 years ago

    I hear ya there Ryze, f**king depressing innit!

  • Ryze #152 4 years ago

    Instead of tackling issues - there are these stupid lists of words that people can't say.

    The issues just get ducked and dodged, while all the time, people feel gagged when all they want to do is express themselves.

    The real problem is that people just don't seem to understand each other - and loads of (especially young) black people don't understand themselves.

    They play the stereotype themselves because they think that it's the way to be 'black'. Mainly because their own culture was ripped out of their family history between 1700-1960 but hey! That's another debate!

    So this 'stereotype' is made of what people think black people are, or expect them to be. It's a bloody low set of expectations (Clown or Criminal, if not an athlete) - the same thing happens with young people in Britain (low expectations - branded as 'hoodies' and tearaways - so the weak just live down to the expectations).

    While the problems are not solved, the stereotypes will not go away: black low self esteem, young inner city kids in poor schools, with nothing really to aspire to... no decent visible rolemodes, only idiots get the spotlight these days, poor leaders - does Gordon Brown even talk to us as a leader?

    Neither he nor the Queen have inspired me to do anything with my life.

    Chuck D and Ice Cube have though. What's that all about?

    It's as simple as that.

  • Gaol #153 4 years ago

    So... do I have your position right, here? That black people didn't have the right to complain about how they were portrayed on, say, The Black And White Minstrel Show because it wasn't aimed at them?

    I'm not familiar with that show, or the context it was set in; but I will say this: I am against what I view/play being censored to conform to a particular political viewpoint. There is a big difference between media that promotes race hate, and one that (through lack of imagination or otherwise) pokes fun at racial stereotypes; just the same way there is a big difference between an English colleague poking fun at my Scots accent; and someone organized BNP conventions.

    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

    That statement there is out and out racist.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

    You are using 'Y'all' and bad composition presumably to portray the stereotypical view of a uneducated Texan 'trailer trash' white demographic. In your own terms, this is no less racist than someone portraying black suburbanites as always wearing hoodies. Of course, both might or might not be 'racist', it all depends on context and motive. The portrayal of blacks in GTA, Uncharted or Gears might be cliched, but it is NOT racist and calling it so demeans the real issues.

    "There's a world of difference between "content aimed at young white men" and "content that exclusively treats women and minorities as objects of amusement for young white men". Jesus, why am I even having to point that out? "

    I would agree if I thought for a second that games developers were actually setting out, with motive, to make fun of the minorities in question and spread that sentiment to impressionable members of the public. But that's not the case and you know it. Where we actually get to the point where only able bodied straight white males can be typecast, something has gone badly wrong.

    I hope this helps you understand my position and I retract the 'shit blood' comment because you are making your points in a fair and reasonable manner and I really ought to do likewise. I feel a real sense of danger that politically correct viewpoints have served there purpose in this country and now gone well beyond that; and are impacting on our media, conventions, humour and way of life. When I see a person trying to insinuate that videogame I enjoy very much are somehow dangerous politically I feel pretty angry. The fact that a leading videogame magazine of a niche sector, Edge, has a left wing mandate I would normally attribute to 'The Guardian' is pretty scary.
    Edited by 1 at 11/04/08 @ 13:11

  • mooseman721 #154 4 years ago

    They should have used a Tiger Woods blueprint for the Coletrain. That would be great in a firefight, imagine that squeaky little voice!

  • Kryon #155 4 years ago

    Nah, they should have made him like RJ from No Retreat No Surrender, and he should also do that same rap "Well I dance a bit and I'm pretty quick, I move to the beat so watch my feet". Now that would have been class!

  • Ryze #156 4 years ago

    Everytime you pause the game he should go:

    "Stop! Hammer Time!"
    Edited by 1 at 11/04/08 @ 17:51

  • Rodafowa #157 4 years ago

    So... do I have your position right, here? That black people didn't have the right to complain about how they were portrayed on, say, The Black And White Minstrel Show because it wasn't aimed at them?

    I'm not familiar with that show, or the context it was set in; but I will say this: I am against what I view/play being censored to conform to a particular political viewpoint. There is a big difference between media that promotes race hate, and one that (through lack of imagination or otherwise) pokes fun at racial stereotypes; just the same way there is a big difference between an English colleague poking fun at my Scots accent; and someone organized BNP conventions.

    Yes, of course a difference between media that promotes race hate and media poking fun at racial stereotypes. Absolutely no argument there.

    There's also a difference betwen poking fun at racial stereotypes and perpetuating and exploiting racial stereotypes, though.

    Oh, and <a href="http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/B/htmlB /blackandwhim/blackandwhim.htm">check this out</A>. Would you agree that it's racist, irrespective of the intentions of its creators?

    "Y'all don't know what it's like bein' male, middle-class an' white..."

    That statement there is out and out racist.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

    You are using 'Y'all' and bad composition presumably to portray the stereotypical view of a uneducated Texan 'trailer trash' white demographic.

    I'm using "y'all" and bad composition because I'm quoting noted South Carolina redneck <A HREF="http:// www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Rockin'-The-Suburbs-lyri cs-Ben-Folds/7F5628AC2417B70A48256DE9002E37DA">Ben Folds</A>, as it goes.

    "There's a world of difference between "content aimed at young white men" and "content that exclusively treats women and minorities as objects of amusement for young white men". Jesus, why am I even having to point that out? "

    I would agree if I thought for a second that games developers were actually setting out, with motive, to make fun of the minorities in question and spread that sentiment to impressionable members of the public. But that's not the case and you know it. Where we actually get to the point where only able bodied straight white males can be typecast, something has gone badly wrong.

    I'm not sure I've made myself clear, here. "For the amusement of" doesn't translate to "deliberately making fun of". As I said in a previous post, 90% of female characters in games are ornamental fantasy-fodder. 90% of black characters in games are clichéd comic relief or ghetto stereotypes. They're that way because their sole purpose in the game is to pander to the perceived tastes of their target demographic.

    I'm not suggesting for a second that developers deliberately set out to demean women and minorities. I'm just saying that it's unhealthy to have the media constantly telling young white men that women and minorites exist only to amuse them. It’s an unhealthy – and yes, even dangerous - trend even if that message isn't the developers' intent. I think that's part of what Morgan Grey was getting at in the original article when he was talking about games reinforcing "casual" racism.

    Like it or not, we are part of the privileged majority. As such, in all good conscience we have a responsibility to be aware of the inherent, ingrained biases and bigotries that are so widespread and “normal” that we don't even realise we're affected by them. And we have a responsibility to respect the views and opinions of people outside that majority, whose experiences we can’t remotely understand.

    I appreciate it’s difficult to see that, largely because of the sense of entitlement that’s built up by having the world largely run for your benefit for 20 or 30 years. But how can you possibly deny that the media – ALL media - still largely treats women and minorities pretty badly, how can you deny that that’s a problem, how can you deny that we’d be better-off as a culture if that wasn’t the case?

    I hope this helps you understand my position and I retract the 'shit blood' comment because you are making your points in a fair and reasonable manner and I really ought to do likewise. I feel a real sense of danger that politically correct viewpoints have served there purpose in this country and now gone well beyond that; and are impacting on our media, conventions, humour and way of life.

    The term “politically correct” has become so totally debased it’s utterly worthless. Worse than worthless, actually – it’s lead to anyone expressing even the most mild, most reasoned questioning of the status quo getting lumped in with apocryphal right-wing fairy-tale bollocks about schoolkids being forced to sing “Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep” by well-meaning teachers and dismissed out of hand.

    Way, way, WAY too often, people spit out the phrase “You’re just being politically correct” to justify their defensive gut reaction to being told that what they’re doing is upsetting other people, and to avoid having to examine the implications of the uncomfortable question that’s being asked. See: this comments thread.

    The fact that a leading videogame magazine of a niche sector, Edge, has a left wing mandate I would normally attribute to 'The Guardian' is pretty scary.

    I’m not sure I’d agree that Edge has a “left wing mandate”. Even so, if you want a games mag that revels in exploitative images and the tackier end of gaming you’re not short of choices, man.

    Unlike someone who’s looking for a positive, non-stereotypical black videogame character. See?

    edit - Bloody links.
    Edited by 5 at 11/04/08 @ 18:10

  • Kryon #158 4 years ago

    LOL @ Ryze :D

    I reckon Rodafowa should also say "Stop! Hammer time!" at the end of his posts, otherwise they could go on forever, a bit like the one above ;)

  • Rodafowa #159 4 years ago

    That's why I normally just stick to being pithy, sarcastic and totally unconstructive, man. It's usually easier for everyone concerned. ;)

  • djed #160 4 years ago

    eurogamer should stop scouring MTV for gaming related news. i mean, it's bloody MTV, innit?!

  • Gaol #161 4 years ago

    @Rodafowa

    Woah that's a wall of text there, even by my standards.

    I don't disagree that perpetuating stereotypes can be a bad thing if it leads impressionable people to an uneducated and prejudicial view which carries over to their daily life. If this 'Minstrel Show' did that, then it's a bad thing - the fact that there were no other balancing or alternative images available at the time is highlighted in the article and would lead me to believe this example better represents historical views which most educated people have thankfully left behind. But we need to draw the line somewhere - we can't rule out genuinely humourous and well intended ribbings based on said stereotypes; which we understand as adults are not realistic; nor should we censor setting RE5 in an African village because it *might* offend a small section of the community because they associate it with unrelated experiences.

    "Like it or not, we are part of the privileged majority. As such, in all good conscience we have a responsibility to be aware of the inherent, ingrained biases and bigotries that are so widespread and “normal” that we don't even realise we're affected by them. And we have a responsibility to respect the views and opinions of people outside that majority, whose experiences we can’t remotely understand. "

    I would agree with this if you took out the word 'privileged' and took out 'whose experiences we can't remotely understand'.

    ALL media - still largely treats women and minorities pretty badly

    This is utter tosh. Prime time telly is largely dominated by female interests. The most 'risky' humour on a network channel is 'The Friday Night Project' This is another debate.

    'I’m not sure I’d agree that Edge has a “left wing mandate”. Even so, if you want a games mag that revels in exploitative images and the tackier end of gaming you’re not short of choices, man.

    Unlike someone who’s looking for a positive, non-stereotypical black videogame character. See? '

    The common stereotypes in games might get boring fast, but it's a pretty big jump to say that the black guy in GoW 'reinforces casual racism'; and an absolutely ludicrous jump to Barret's Mr T pastiche in FFVII doing the same.

  • hulkamania78 #162 4 years ago

    some of the comments on here are absolute classics. i have lol at some especially the cole should be like tiger woods. saying his lines in a squeaky voice would be so convincing. or the hammer time comment. both classics.

    For me what do people expect stereo types are everywhere , you cant make a die hard 4 with bruce willis fininding god and not firing guns its just not right. Its bs all the guys comments , the only none stereo type charecters are in the matrix neo and morpheus are class and he is not your average black stereo type or what about agent smith the office wearing stereo type.

  • NthSimulachum #163 4 years ago

    Gears is guilty of doubleplusungood crimethink. Rewrite fullwise.

    I found the G-man in Half-Life to be offensive to people with stutters. I don't have a stutter myself, but I TAKE IT UPON MYSELF TO FEEL AGGRIEVED ON THEIR BEHALF. Which is not in the least bit patronising, surely? HE BELITTLES THEIR PAIN.



  • bradstor #164 4 years ago

    look, If they didn't make him a stereotype, nobody would know he was black in the first place.

  • Slipstream #165 4 years ago

    lol seriously. These types of characters are chosen because people can generally relate to the stereotypes. If this subject hadn't have been brought up for example, it wouldn't have made any difference to me if Marcus had been black, but no, he probably would've got slated for being a tough Black guy...seriously, what a doofus.

    Uh oh, Resident Evil 5 is quite deep into its development!

  • TitusCrow #166 4 years ago

    i thought this was only a game myself.. the people in it are the hardest bastards that can be mustard at the time to pin the hope of that world onto - the survivors. what the fuk does he want them to be a bunch of poets and philosophers ? and i too have been on XBL the americans are all absolute tossers for the most part, no idea if they are black or white they all speak like the crazy bastards off jerry springer and i find there ignorance of the rest of the planet limitless and hidious!
    the black americans hate the whites for keeping them down -true! half the world hates america for the kind of protectionism and trade bullying that has kept them living in poverty while the americans waste more per day that any race on earth.

    i think the section of america that this rant is aimed at has bigger fish to fry than worrying why a marine in a videogame come across like an extra from boys in the fuking hood!

    the americans arent paranoid at all - everyone is out to get them!!
    Edited by 1 at 14/04/08 @ 11:02