GDC: More from Molyneux

By Ellie Gibson Published 21 February, 2008

On hard drives, PC gaming and the Wii.

Peter Molyneux is one of the headline speakers at this year's Game Developers Conference. As you'll know if you read the preview published yesterday, he's here to reveal more of Fable 2. Specifically he's been discussing co-op, and the innovation that will allow players to earn in-game gold by playing XBLA titles.

But the Lionhead boss has never been one to stick to promoting his own projects during interviews. In fact, his tendency to stray from the party line has got him into trouble before now. So, obviously, Eurogamer took the opportunity to ask Molyneux some more general questions. Read on to find out what he thinks of the Wii, the state of PC gaming, the Xbox 360's lack of a hard drive and more.

Eurogamer: Having seen the demo of Fable 2, it's clear you're doing some ambitious stuff. Have you ever wished you had a hard drive to play with, as you'd have had with PlayStation 3?

Peter Molyneux: Fable 2 works on the Core system, and there are some things which are problematic to do if you haven't got a hard drive. They're mainly to do with downloading, sustaining and adding to it - that's problematic. Given the choice, I'd obviously choose a hard drive every day of the week.

But the balance to that is you're supporting a system which is an awful lot cheaper. What I'm trying to address with Fable 2 is say 'Look, anybody can play this game.' That's what I really want. So supporting the cheaper price is really important.

Eurogamer: So you think you've backed the right horse? There's been talk that PS3 is finally coming into its own now, and suggestions the software line-up for 360 isn't as stellar as it was last year. Are you still confident?

'GDC: More from Molyneux' Screenshot 1

Peter Molyneux: It's a continual battle. I think that battle will rage over many years and many generations, because no one wants to give up the prize. The prize is that every home will have an entertainment system and someone's going to think, 'It's going to be mine' - whether that be Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo.

I don't think this generation is going to have a clear, decisive winner. Even when you look at the pretty stellar performance the Wii has had, that's only been [because of] a tiny number of titles. Wii Sports and so on have done incredibly well, no one would argue with that. But where are the rest of the titles? How well are they selling?

Eurogamer: Nintendo would probably dispute that. They made the point recently the NPD figures suggest a lot of third-parties are having good fortune with the Wii.

Peter Molyneux: I'm sure they are, but they're not having that much good fortune compared to on the other platforms. If you look at the software attach ratio it isn't as strong as the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3.

Eurogamer: Perhaps the attractiveness is the relative cost. You must have spent millions on Fable 2. You can make a Wii game fairly cheaply by comparison.

Peter Molyneux: You can. The funny thing about that is, for third-party publishers, the Wii is probably just as expensive as PS3 - if not more so - because you've got to downgrade all the graphics and change the control mechanism.

For Nintendo, I think that's probably true. I don't know how much Mario Galaxy cost but it's a pretty huge game. Something like Wii Sports was probably very cheap.

'GDC: More from Molyneux' Screenshot 2

Eurogamer: What's your take on PC gaming at the moment? Cliff Bleszinski was recently quoted as saying it's in "disarray", so Epic is concentrating on console development for now. Is that an opinion you share?

Peter Molyneux: I think it's a huge tragedy. I mean, you might as well say PC gaming is World of Warcraft and The Sims... The weird thing is everyone's got a PC, they're just not buying software for it.

You only have to look at some of the titles which have recently come out. Crysis - I don't know the final sales figures, but they certainly weren't stellar compared to the amount of effort they put in.

So I think it's a real tragedy. I love the PC. There isn't a tangible reason why it shouldn't still be a great gaming platform. I still think the mouse is a fantastic device for playing games on. We all hail the Wii as being a great innovator but actually, it's a mouse you hold [differently].

Eurogamer: You don't think it's just a perception thing? Digital distribution figures are very difficult to track. Steam says they've got over 13 million accounts; PopCap and companies like that are doing extremely well. Isn't it just that PC gaming is about different things now?

'GDC: More from Molyneux' Screenshot 3

Peter Molyneux: I think that's a fair thing to say. For years, the PC was home to a massive amount of innovation. If you look at the number of genres that came from the PC, they still don't exist anywhere else. RTS games only exist there. That's what's fallen off.

Underneath that, you're quite right. There's an enormous amount of gaming happening with PopCap, Big Fish and Reflective. But here's the fascinating thing - have you been on those sites recently? Forget Steam. Start looking at those sites.

The fascinating thing is when they first started, all these games came out like Peggle and Mystery Files and Alice Greensleeves and Diner Dash, and it felt quite exciting. There was a lot of innovation going on. Okay, there weren't great graphics, but there was innovation.

In my view, that has completely stopped. They're doing the same game over and over again with a different wrapper. It's like a mini-universe in itself which is emulating what's happening in our industry.

The second thing is, you've got The Sims and World of Warcraft sucking all the air out of the PC market. It's just incredible.

Peter Molyneux runs Lionhead, now part of Microsoft. He was speaking to Ellie Gibson and Tom Bramwell.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (42) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • woodnotes #1 4 years ago

    "Eurogamer: So you think you've backed the right horse? There's been talk that PS3 is finally coming into its own now, and suggestions the software line-up for 360 isn't as stellar as it was last year. Are you still confident?"

    At least try and hide your bias, EG.

  • kangarootoo #2 4 years ago

    "So you think you've backed the right horse?"

    Like it was a really a choice. Lionhead was in trouble, MS came along with a sack of money.

  • ostrasized #3 4 years ago

    the Wii is probably just as expensive as PS3 - if not more so - because you've got to downgrade all the graphics and change the control mechanism

    What a moronic thing to say. Because 'downgrading' all the graphics is expensive is it?

  • Moonprince #4 4 years ago

    cnt

  • LetsGo #5 4 years ago

    "So you think you've backed the right horse?"

    I think EG should be asking MS about buying Lionhead not Lionhead selling up to MS surely....

  • kangarootoo #6 4 years ago

    @woodnotes

    Oh come on, bloody paranoid. They are talking to a guy who works for MS so of course they will pose challenging questions. When EG speak to Sony people they pose equally challenging questions.

    That is the job of a journalist ffs. Do you ever watch news programmes? Jeremy Paxman never agrees with anyone, which is why he is good at his job.

  • kangarootoo #7 4 years ago

    "What a moronic thing to say. Because 'downgrading' all the graphics is expensive is it?"

    Fractionally, but not that pricey.

    However, he may have just badly chosen the words.

    Getting a game to fit into a smaller memory footprint is a major pain in the ass sometimes. Downgrading graphics is a part of that, but its a rather more complex process and can be very pricey in manhours.

  • woodnotes #8 4 years ago

    @ kangarootoo: Yep, you're right.

  • Xerx3s #9 4 years ago

    "What a moronic thing to say. Because 'downgrading' all the graphics is expensive is it? "

    Changing things cost money. Once a goal is set, changing it can be very expensive. It's true in my industry and I'm sure that it's true in the games industry as well. You don't simply go like "oh we will do this like that then", it takes planning, administration, testing, rebuilding, etc.,etc.

    Moonprince: What a constructive and mature post. What have you done that makes you so much better?

  • Hog-lumps #10 4 years ago

    "What a moronic thing to say. Because 'downgrading' all the graphics is expensive is it?"

    Well I thought he meant with 'cross-platform' games, - where it must surely require extra effort/finance to convert your game to the wii - i.e. you cant simply use 'shovelware' across all 3 platforms.
    Edited by 1 at 21/02/08 @ 12:23

  • Der_tolle_Emil #11 4 years ago

    I still think the mouse is a fantastic device for playing games on. We all hail the Wii as being a great innovator but actually, it's a mouse you hold [differently].

    I like this one. I know he did some great stuff but he just comes across really stupid and ignorant a lot of the times.

    And as for the Wii being expensive: It's true: If you have a 360 game and you want to get it running on the Wii then it does take a lot more effort to accomplish this as if you were just going to port it to the PS3 (or from the PS3 to the 360).

  • Killerbee #12 4 years ago

    the Wii is probably just as expensive as PS3 - if not more so - because you've got to downgrade all the graphics and change the control mechanism

    What a moronic thing to say. Because 'downgrading' all the graphics is expensive is it?

    I think the point he's making is that if you're a third party publisher making a cross-platform game (say it's FIFA) you'll probably have a lead platform (360 or PS3) and then have to port it over to the other platforms you want to support. Okay, the Wii is much more simple to develop for, but there's probably the same amount of cost and effort going into porting a game to the Wii as there is going from 360 to PS3 (or vice versa).

    Where the Wii benefits, though, is in games that are developed exclusively for the Wii - all things being equal in terms of writing, design and such, making a game for the Wii is going to cost less than making it for the 360/PS3 because you haven't got to put so much effort into cutting edge graphics.

  • Killerbee #13 4 years ago

    The point about PC gaming is interesting though - yes, Crysis should have sold many more copies than it did, but I think the reason wasn't so much to do with that game or people not wanting to use their PC as a gaming platform, but rather the pretty steep system requirements the game demands to get the most out of it. And it's not just Crysis - Assassin's Creed on the PC has some quite astonishing system requirements too.

    Yes, many, many people have PCs, but I reckon relatively few have PCs that can run Crysis comfortably. I know I've been holding off buying it until I've bought a new PC later on this year.

    And I'm probably in the minority in deciding to spend my cash on a PC - after all, I could buy a PS3 and a 360 for the amount of money I intend to spend on a PC, and those consoles would still be good for playing the latest games in 2-3 years time - a fact which I wouldn't be sure of in the PC gaming market.

  • Shabtai #14 4 years ago

    Would they drop Crysis already? It only proves pc still has a market. More than one million retail copies sold of the game, considering the high system requirments,piracy and a packed holiday season it's pretty good.

    I mean, there are top ps3 games that didn't even reach 1 mil. and nobody says the ps3 is dead..at least not everybody..

  • ZeroAX #15 4 years ago

    "the Wii is probably just as expensive as PS3 - if not more so - because you've got to downgrade all the graphics and change the control mechanism "

    but ofc 360 is cheap right? really this guy hasn't made a true great game since he left bullfrog. all his games are just great tech demos. yeah black and white the concept is great. how about some trrue objectives?

  • Katsumoto #16 4 years ago

    Yeah, Crysis has got this reputation for not selling because of that piece of news at the end of last year, but the fact is its gone platinum already within 3 months of its release! I wouldn't call it a poor seller really.

    edit: Wikipedia knows all!: "Initial NPD sales numbers were taken as a sign that the game had flopped.[6] However, during EA's Q3 2008 Earnings Conference Call, it was stated that Crysis had sold over one million copies worldwide in the fiscal quarter and that the game continues to exceed sales expectations.[7]"
    Edited by 1 at 21/02/08 @ 13:09

  • Lemming81 #17 4 years ago

    "Forget Steam"

    Not the cleverest thing to say when Fable is for sale on it. :)

  • dawguk #18 4 years ago

    I like this one. I know he did some great stuff but he just comes across really stupid and ignorant a lot of the times.

    What are you talking about? I challenge anybody that says the Wii controller is a new revolution in game controllers. Microsoft were making the sidewinder tilt controller years and years before Nintendo called it a nunchuck (and marketed it better, just for the reference). It was the same BASIC premise. You're an idiot for questioning the Molyneux God. The guy doesn't get where he is, by being ignorant.

  • andromeda #19 4 years ago

    this site is so uncomfortable to visit now, something about the new deisgn makes everything look like too much work too bother to read.
    Bring back the old design!!!
    and yeah i know this is offtopic

  • UncleLou #20 4 years ago

    Again with the Crysis nonsense.

    Do keep up, Peter.

  • Nephirion #21 4 years ago

    I miss the innovative titles like Dungeon Keeper, MDK, Sacrifice etc, there seems a distinct lack of originality in games with developers focusing on trying to out-do each other graphically. I would upgrade my PC to play a game such as Spore but not for Crysis.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #22 4 years ago

    What are you talking about? I challenge anybody that says the Wii controller is a new revolution in game controllers. Microsoft were making the sidewinder tilt controller years and years before Nintendo called it a nunchuck (and marketed it better, just for the reference). It was the same BASIC premise. You're an idiot for questioning the Molyneux God. The guy doesn't get where he is, by being ignorant.

    I was focusing on the "it's a mouse held differently" bit. Thanks anyway for calling me an idiot though.

  • Olemak #23 4 years ago

    No impressed. I guess he has to butter up to Microsoft, seeing as they own his outfit and pays his bills and all, but questioning the sucsess of the Wii is not exactly convincing:

    "Wii Sports and so on have done incredibly well, no one would argue with that. But where are the rest of the titles? How well are they selling?"

    The answer is "extremely well", Peter. Looks like Wii titles are all over the top 40 chart, including the number one spot.

    Molyneux laments the state of PC gaming, but neglects the fact that Microsoft - his company's owner - bears a lot of the responsibility for this. Why? Because 1: MS seems to buy out a lot of studios and directem towards the Xbox, with the PC as an afterthought at best, and 2: because Vista just isn't a viable gaming platform. I know, I have a Vista rig and it's hardy usable for anything reseource hog that it is. Gamers want the best and the latest, and Vista is just the latest. XP is the best. And so that market seems to stagnate.

    Not an MS hater, just pointing this stuff out. For PC gaming to get back in the swing, we need a reliable, efficient OS for games to run on, getting the most of new technology. Vista sure isn't it.

  • UncleLou #24 4 years ago

    The thing with the alleged crysis of PC gaming is becoming a bit irritating. People talk about WoW and don't mention that The Witcher sold more than a million copies. People quote the wrong bullshit Crysis "10 days US sales" figures and don't register it sold more than a million in a couple of months. Stalker did extremely well, as far as I know. Bioshock PC, too. CoD4 as well.

    It seem to be mainly devs who release a half-arsed port a year later who complain about low sales. You reap what you sow.

  • DoKtoR #25 4 years ago

    Everyone loves to Molyneux bash... poor bastard cant open his mouth without having a forum full of people critique his every sentence... and this to the man who practically invented the 'god' sim.

  • smelly #26 4 years ago

    >Everyone loves to Molyneux bash

    Yeah.. Gamers seem to think they know more about making games than someone who's made loads of them...

  • kangarootoo #27 4 years ago

    @Killerbee

    "Okay, the Wii is much more simple to develop for, but there's probably the same amount of cost and effort going into porting a game to the Wii as there is going from 360 to PS3 (or vice versa)."

    Not sure about that. When it comes to choosing a lead platform there are perhaps two routes to go.

    1. Choose the most powerful platform, then downsize as required to fit your title onto the others. This theoretically results in the highest level of visual quality across each platform.

    2. Choose the least powerful platform as your lead, then porting to other systems won't require a drop in asset quality and all you need to work hard at porting is your engine. This is the cheaper route.

    Now the 360 and PS3 are clearly more closely matched. I don't even care which is most powerful and I cetianly don't want to get into some pointless argument about it, so lets rename them X and Y anonymously.

    Whichever platform you built on, you can weight your art assets so you know they will function fine on both platforms. Many X and Y games look pretty similar so you know you will be ok whichever you choose as your lead platform.

    The same can't be said of the Wii unfortunately. If the Wii is your lead platform and you just use the same assets on a 360 or PS3 they will stand out a mile off amongst their peers.

    AND that doesn't even account for the controls system of Wii, which need accomodating, which means paying people to design and code the Wii specific solutions.

    So porting between 360 and PS3, or vice versa, is likely to be considerably cheaper that porting from either platform to the Wii (or the other way around).

    I think it is also a little unwise to assume that Wii development is cheap because you don't have to spend money on cutting edge graphics. You still want your Wii game to look good, especially if your art style is more conventional (as opposed to heavily stylised like Wii Sports et al). Whatever your platform, you will likely want your game to look as good as possible. If a dev just says "its the Wii version so it can look a bit shonky" the results will look extra shonky and won't compare favourably with other Wii games out there. Making stuff look good on the Commodore Amiga was hard work, and nothing has really changed because the goalposts move with the technology.
    Edited by 1 at 21/02/08 @ 16:39

  • kangarootoo #28 4 years ago

    @DcP729UK

    Its not going to happen whilst he still works for Lionhead is it. Which probably means its not going to happen for a fair while. To be honest, I think that PM is probably best placed where he is, as a PR figurehead for a big company. Some might suggest that Lionhead's recent performance has shown that operating as a small dev is maybe not his forte anymore.

  • FWB #29 4 years ago

    No question about Syndicate 3?

  • Pablo2k5 #30 4 years ago

    Molyneux is basically repeating what Cliffy B and Chris Taylor have said on the state of PC Gaming....

    Fucking sheep the lot of them.

    If there's more money to be made by making console games then that is what they will do, the bastards.
    Edited by 1 at 21/02/08 @ 17:30

  • Feanor #31 4 years ago

    "The point about PC gaming is interesting though - yes, Crysis should have sold many more copies than it did"

    I think 1,000,000+ sales is perfectly respectable for a game that wouldn't run well on a lot of PCs.

  • fightman3b #32 4 years ago

    not more free promotion for this fucking bald-headed chimpalike?

    the cunt was only on here a couple of months ago blathering about fable or some other shit he's going to overhype and underdeliver ala black and white. the guys a fucking twat, why are eurogamer giving the motherfucker the oxygen of publicity?

    piss off molytwat and grow some hair you wanker

  • beep #33 4 years ago

    Seems like everyone who isn't developing for the Wii are hoping it fails.

  • kangarootoo #34 4 years ago

    "If there's more money to be made by making console games then that is what they will do, the bastards."

    If thats the motivation, I don't blame them bit. I quite like money too tbh. Games are a luxury item, not a requirement for life. And the games industry is not a charity.

  • kangarootoo #35 4 years ago

    @DcP729UK

    I wonder what the score is with the back catalogue stuff.

    Did PM retain ownership of Bullfrog IP? Did MS then take ownership of old IP when they bought Lionhead?

    I don't know the answer to either question, and it could be the case that MS don't own the really early stuff like Populous. I'd be interested to know too.

  • kangarootoo #36 4 years ago

    I've ignored my very first poster. It felt alright actually :)

  • Daikon #37 4 years ago

    Enough about Fable 2. How about he explains why Populous DS has been released only in Japan.

  • Skywise #38 4 years ago

    How many Playstation 2s have been sold until now? 130 million maybe? If 10 million people playing World of Warcraft is really crippling the PC gaming industry then maybe they should make PC gaming less expensive.

    To play Assassins Creed my gaming PC of early 2007 won't be strong enough :S

  • Bangaioh #39 4 years ago

    the molyneux god?! when will eg understand that people like this guy and perry need to stay off these pages? he ain't no miyamoto, just a waste of space and words. give us more barbie island princess coverage instead...

  • Der_tolle_Emil #40 4 years ago

    @DcP729UK: Not necessarily. Microsoft doesn't have anthing to compete with in the handheld market (no hardware) so DS games are fine. Remember that there's also Viva Pinata for the DS coming.

  • Grogmonkey #41 4 years ago

    EA own all the rigths to the old Bullfrog IP, like Magic Carpet, Syndicate and the like. Could be they've forgotten about them, though. I think they lost them down the back of the sofa a couple of years back.

  • kangarootoo #42 4 years ago

    @DcP729UK

    Ah, I misread your post. I thought you were hoping that Populous would get a PSN release. I didn't realise it already had.

    @Der_tolle_Emil

    I would still be surprised if MS would allow their IP to be released on a competitor's platform. Even though MS don't compete directly with the PSP, it is obviously a Sony product and there is no shortage of competition between the two.

    @Grogmonkey

    Ah ok. I guess EA can do what they like with the old stuff, but it won't involve PM in any way.

  • fightman2 #43 4 years ago

    not more free promotion for this fucking bald-headed chimpalike?

    the cunt was only on here a couple of months ago blathering about fable or some other shit he's going to overhype and underdeliver ala black and white. the guys a fucking twat, why are eurogamer giving the motherfucker the oxygen of publicity?

    piss off molytwat and grow some hair you wanker

  • fightman2 #44 4 years ago

    "molyneux.......molyneux......where are you, you fucking cunt - the court calls the criminal molyshit - your crime, creating shitty over-hyped games that would be better placed up your gapey arsehole than on the shop shelving"

    molyfuck steps up to the dock, his bald head reflecting back the steely glare of the judge.

    the fucking chimp knows he is guilty.

    "molyneux, the crime is creating shit games; the punishment is death by having copies of black and white shoved down your throat, and copies of black and white 2 pushed up your gapey arse - until the equally shit games meet in the middle and split open your overweight gut"

    fuck you molytwat, go eat your own turd chimpface.

  • spekkeh #45 4 years ago

    Lately I get the impression Molyneux is not really happy being a subsidiary of Microsoft. This is the upteenth time he defends the choice for Microsoft with rather meek and sometimes frankly ridiculous arguments. What's wrong with just saying that you feel comfortable with Microsoft and happy to develop for their consoles?