GC: Stories are complex enough

By Games Industry.biz Published 21 August, 2007

Says GCDC panel.

Two of the industry's leading storytellers have said games shouldn't try to develop more complex stories because designers haven't figured out a way to make it work yet, GamesIndustry.biz reports.

The Storytelling Panel at this year's Games Convention Developers Conference, which featured Oblivion designer Ken Rolston and veteran adventure author Bob Bates, outlined some of the problems that face game narratives today.

For Rolston, when asked about whether games should try to be less linear and more complex with their storylines, it was "the worst idea I ever heard," because "games aren't any good at it."

The reason for this is down to "our inability to pay off on all the choices that there should be available. It's so difficult to make a genuinely complex dramatic choice."

Bates echoed the sentiment, and compared the problem for videogames to that of a fiction novel.

"As an author of a story you have to push a character into doing things it wouldn't want to do in order to grow the character. As a game designer it's not fair to make the player have to do that."

When pressed on whether there was a place for a real dilemma in games, or sense of choice, the pair also agreed that it just wasn't that straightforward.

"We have to have content to support that choice for the rest of the game," said Bates, which would present something of a logistical nightmare.

They went on to admit that interactive dialogue, seen in many role-playing games throughout gaming history, is a necessary evil.

"There's no chance that I'll ever be able to do without it, but I'll spend every resource not to use interactive dialogue," lamented Rolston.

The pair generally agreed on most points raised in the session, although they did disagree about the best way to furnish a game with a backstory.

For Rolston the most effective method comes with the use of ambiguity - a history suggested by non-specific ruins or artefacts, for which the player is able to supply his or her own narrative.

But Bates was sceptical on that point, and was critical of most backstory execution today.

"What passes for story in most games is just revealed backstory, and that is really that. It can provide some context, but fundamentally it's uninteresting. I want what's in my mind to poison your mind, and that's not going to happen with ambiguity."

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Comments (12) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dreddnaught #1 5 years ago

    Hi mum, this is my new friend, Bob Bates, he's a games writer.

    Bob - "I want what's in my mind to poison your mind"

    Mum, stop crying, Bob, i think you should leave.

  • Steve_Ince #2 5 years ago

    Story complexity isn't just about non-linearity and player choices. It should be about sub-plots, richer characterisation, deeper inter-character relationships, etc.

  • mattjohnston #3 5 years ago

    Bullcrap...have they never played Max Payne (1 or 2)?
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 12:15

  • RexRunti #4 5 years ago

    *cough* Deus Ex *cough*

  • JohnnyWashnGo #5 5 years ago

    I am THE captain basch of dalmasca

  • IAmBatman #6 5 years ago

    Deus Ex is a good example of a game with a rubbish generic story that doesn't react in any significant way to your choices.

  • Veldaban #7 5 years ago

    So I'm not the only one who feels that way about Deus Ex? Though to be honest I stopped playing it after being forced to choose a certain path in its story, which was of a rather dubious morality as well. I might easily have accepted that in another game, but not in a game which claims your choices matter then proceeds to make my choices for me based on what the developers think is good and bad.

  • drunkymonkey #8 5 years ago

    You shouldn't trust a designer of Oblivion to tell you about compelling stories.

  • Skooch #9 5 years ago

    Real choice is exceptionally hard to build into a game. I am a big fan of titles like Bioshock which although linear have a great back story and character development and give you choices in the form of variety - i.e. shall I kill that Big Daddy by enraging those splicers or should I hack a turret bot or should I just shoot it with a shotgun?

  • Martin #10 5 years ago

    @Skooch: Interesting that you see three different ways of killing someone as enough choice in a game. :)

    I hope that I can take a step back and ask why I'd want to dispose of the Big Daddy and then find another way to achieve what I need to do. Perhaps the Big Daddy just needs a hug and then he'll give me the ADAM? ;)

  • kangarootoo #11 5 years ago

    Freedom of player choice is not the same as good story. The two can co-exist, or both can be entirely absent.

    Whether or not Deus Ex let the player feel that their choices influenced the story does not mean it did not have a good story (not saying it DID, just that the two are not connected). It may have affected player enjoyment of the game, but thats not the same thing. Story is just one of many things that can serve player enjoyment; it is not a replacement for it.

    A good story in part depends on good story telling, and story telling can be tough when the player gets involved, as it can remove game control from some of the tools that traditionally assist in sotyr telling (such as pace and focus). Max Payne has been mentioned already in this thread, but its a good example. Great story, but entirely linear.

    Movies and books are 100% linear, but we don't critisise them on that basis. We may critisise a film for having a poor story (fair enough), we may criticise a game for having a poor story (fair enough), we may criticise a game for being linear (fair enough). Each of these things is an issue of its own.

  • MuTaunt #12 5 years ago

    I'd say game stories are becoming too simple. I miss the days of proper stories like Planescape: Torment, Fallout, Baldur's Gate etc.

    I think they're just trying to make excuses for why the story was boring in Oblivion.