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Forza Motorsport 2 First Impressions

Xbox 360 First Impressions by Dave McCarthy

3 May, 2007

The night before going to see Forza Motorsport 2 I ran nine miles. It was fairly tough. But not, as I was to discover, as tough as the all-over body and cardio-vascular workout you get from driving for 20 minutes round the UK's biggest indoor karting track, which is where Microsoft decided to show off the game to a bunch of games journalists. Fortunately, Forza 2 is rather more forgiving, in spite of its hardcore simulation credentials. In fact, speaking in one of the raceway's swanky corporate-hospitality meeting rooms, Game Director Dan Greenawalt declares: "The goal of this game is to really turn gamers into car lovers and turn car lovers into gamers and create a really big community that gets excited about games and excited about cars."

That community aspect cuts right to the core of most of the game's new features and improvements, but the most obvious area where Forza 2 excels is in its physics model. Indeed, in the bid to scale next-generation heights of simulation accuracy, the team put in three months on the tyre system alone. That's the amount of time it took to accurately model the effects of pressure, wear and heat (on the inside and outside of the tyre), as well as looking into load sensitivity - which is, apparently, the efficiency of the tyre under an increasing load. It's not something you'd usually expect in a motor racing videogame, and it required the use of proprietary real-world data from the likes of Yokohama, Toyo, Michelin and Bridgestone.

All of the tracks have also had a suitably next-gen, high-definition makeover, with the development team using GPS and aerial satellite data and some 3,000 photos to recreate each track. They even recorded air pressure and temperature to make sure their simulation will be rigorously accurate. But the fruits of these labours are best illustrated in some of the new tracks, like Sebring, which is an ex-airfield constructed out of mismatched slabs of concrete. In the real world, this surface puts considerable stress on a car (and a driver's kidneys, apparently). And in the game, too, thanks to an underlying physics model that runs its calculations at 360 per second (in contrast with most other racing games: they employ a model that runs at 60 per second, which wouldn't pick up the closely-spaced bumps at high speeds).

'Forza Motorsport 2' Screenshot 1

There are over 300 different car models in the game.

The physics also get a workout if you crash. Bowing to pressure from fans of the original game, Forza 2 will, unlike the original, feature full simulation damage - so if you drive into a wall, the chances are you won't be driving anywhere afterwards. And the game's AI Drivatar system has also been improved, with other drivers exhibiting a more pronounced sense of personality (and the top driver, M. Rossi, regularly frustrating testers with his check-braking, bumping, blocking and just general skulduggery).

What all this advanced physics modelling means is that there is plenty of opportunity to play around with real-world cars in ways they weren't meant to be played with. "What this game is in many ways is a motor sports sandbox where you can go and play with things and trust that we've done the math, that we've done the research to say this is really possible," says Greenawalt. Which leads, of course, into playing with the game's performance upgrade options.

As Greenawalt puts it, "your first car is kind of like your first love." And so while Forza 2 will obviously include plenty of scope for the automotive equivalent of getting off with a superhot model, there's also plenty of scope for a more long-term romance if you're looking for personality. Which is a laboured way of saying that the cars in the game range from the likes of the Honda Civic Type-R to custom-built race cars. And while most motor racing games these days allow you to customise your vehicle to some extent, what sets Forza 2 apart is the scale and range of its upgrade options. In the original Forza there were 20 different types of upgrades, each with their own sub-categories. Forza 2, however, boasts 50 per cent more, including ten different types of upgrade devoted to the engine alone.

'Forza Motorsport 2' Screenshot 2

It's possible to customise your vehicle with various branded parts, from tyres to decals.

Greenawalt proceeded to demonstrate these upgrades by taking the aforementioned Honda Civic Type-R and adding a new intake to push it from class D to C, before adding cams and valves to push it into class B, the natural habitat of the likes of the Audi RS 4. "If you had a Honda Civic Type R and you were to weight-reduce it down to say 900kilos and put it up to 600 horsepower with racing slicks for the downforce, it should be able to compete against Enzos and things like that," he says. And of course you can do all that because they've done the math. Or maths, as we like to call it over here.

One upshot of this extensive upgrade system is that it will turn gamers into car lovers by educating them about different aspects of car design ("What does a conical air filter do?" asks Greenawalt. "Provides isolation from hot air to improve engine performance," says the Internet). Sunday drivers/mere mortals will also be helped out by a full complement of driving assists, from a visible racing line, through ABS to being able to set the level of car damage. And the game's achievements should be in reach of even learner drivers, since a lot of them will reward players for collecting new cars and so on.

'Forza Motorsport 2' Screenshot 3

Above and beyond the performance upgrades, petrolheads can also fine-tune cars for extra performance.

Gamers who aren't already car lovers are most likely to be converted, though, by an extensive suite of cosmetic customisation options. As anyone who's played the original Forza online will recognise, it's an important aspect of the game - so much so that some people went to the trouble of painting the likes of the Mona Lisa on the side of their car using the first game's limited paint job options. The new system expands them to allow you to create different layers and manipulate them with some fairly sophisticated tools. Whereas there were 600 layers in the original, that's been increased to 4,000 for the sequel, for example, and they can be grouped so you can manipulate multiple layers and create even more detailed renaissance masterpieces. If you're so inclined.

If you are so inclined, you'll also welcome the new photo feature. Whereas, previously, budding Leonardos were restricted to taking photographs of their TV screens and uploading them to the internet in a blurry bid to show off their handiwork, this new function makes it much easier. Now it's possible to take an in-game picture of your car at pretty much any point in the game, and it'll be uploaded to forzamotorsport.net automatically (and while that's impressive enough, it's also pretty neat just to be able to zoom around to check the fine detail on the textures).

'Forza Motorsport 2' Screenshot 4

As in the original Forza it'll be possible to unlock every aspect of the game in multiplayer as well as single-player.

Budding Michelangelos will also be able to sell their masterpieces online for in-game credits in one of the game's other new features: the auction house. Indeed the online component of the game is another area that the development team has focused on at length. One improvement, for example, will see the end of the dominance of supercars like the F355 or CRX. That dominance arose because the original game used a linear car classification formula. For the sequel, one of the game's AI programmers created a neural net to test the performance of all the game's different permutations and combinations of car components - taking 48 hours to run. Consequently, the car classification system should be much less open to the dominance of any particular car model - and if the system doesn't work as well as expected, the programmers have left a back door to continue tweaking after release.

As for how the game actually plays, well your humble correspondent was too terrified by the quality of the competition to check out the three-screen setup in the corner of the room (one chap had even bought his own helmet for the karting). Even playing the game with the Xbox 360's wireless steering wheel initially proved a bit tricky, though obviously this will be the long-term choice of any serious Forza fans. Ultimately though, this is the sort of driving realism that fans of the first game will find familiar. Which means it'll take a little while to adjust to if you've been busy smashing your opponents off the road in Burnout, or powersliding around Ridge Racer. But it also means that it'll have the depth to sustain your interest right the way through the 70-hour single-player career.

And then it was time to put everything that I'd learned in the game into practice on the UK's largest indoor kart track. Where, after blistering my hands and losing about 90 per cent of my bodyweight in sweat I came a rather undignified 9th. I'd blame it on a dodgy kart, but all the other drivers seemed to be doing that. Maybe I'll stick to painting.

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Comments: 1-50 of 91 in total | next 50 »

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SpacemanX
03/05/07 @ 10:27
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What is the frame rate?
captbirdseye
03/05/07 @ 10:29
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I hate racing games, but this game has me frothing at the mouth.

/Any updates this minute?
NthSimulachum
03/05/07 @ 10:30
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9 miles? Good grief.
krudster [mod]
03/05/07 @ 10:31
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They gave us code to take away, so we'll post a detailed hands-on next week. Frame rate is claimed to be solid 60fps.
Dizzy
03/05/07 @ 10:32
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I don't remember my first car. Guess this game is not for me ;)

That being said.. it all sounds incredibly impressive.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 03/05/07 @ 11:34
morriss
03/05/07 @ 10:34
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Sounds promising.
bonker
03/05/07 @ 10:34
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I love racing games but this has me, er, pretty meh'd out - think it's all the talk of uber-options and 12 million cars etc. I just wanna pick something up and race for fun - Mario Kart FTW!
Guff-Pipe
03/05/07 @ 10:43
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Sounds Top!
krudster [mod]
03/05/07 @ 10:46
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MMUK - presumably it's the order things were presented, and the terminology used.
Lukree
03/05/07 @ 10:49
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I just bought an Xbox360 and wheel, hopefully this will play nicely.
Pooley
03/05/07 @ 10:50
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They really seem to be putting a lot of effort into Forza 2, presumably to try and topple Gran Turismo's crown.

I'd really like to get this game, but I'd rather not have to buy another steering wheel. Though the wireless wheel is tempting, purely because of the wireless aspect (apart from the power lead to the wheel).

Is it possible to get any other steering wheels working on the 360, or is it the wireless 360 wheel only?
Caimbeul
03/05/07 @ 10:50
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1) You didnt play it?
2) You have playable code and are going to make us wait!!????? - till next week!!!??
rashes
03/05/07 @ 11:07
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@Sofalover

They've plenty of non-super cars...

Focus ST
Civic Type-R,
RX-7 RX8, Saab 9-3
207 sports, Clio Sports,
Toyata Celica, VW Beetle.. etc.

Those are cars you see every day.
Pooley
03/05/07 @ 11:14
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This looks like a useful gadget;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Supido-Hyper-Dri...

I'd try to explain how to use it, but it's simpler to just look at the pictures on the Amazon page!

Has anyone got something like this, and is it any good? At least it'll save fixing the wheel to the coffee table.
rashes
03/05/07 @ 11:16
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@Manic

I see .. true..
But then it might become one of those jack of all trades racing games... and that's not really what this series is about.
Thats for that codemaster game.. what was it called?
lambtron
03/05/07 @ 11:17
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Oh god no!

The worst thing about GT4 was being forced to use crap everyday cars or even worse 70s cars for races.

510 laps of the nurburgring in a 70s saloon... Thanks guys.

I drive an everyday car every day of my life thanks I don't want to do it in games too.
Carlo
03/05/07 @ 11:22
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Krud ¨They gave us code to take away, so we'll post a detailed hands-on next week. Frame rate is claimed to be solid 60fps.¨

So vsync's off then :D
snick
03/05/07 @ 11:36
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Anyone seen a forza + wheel offer anywhere yet?
bicky316
03/05/07 @ 11:36
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"What is the frame rate?"

Why do people want to know this all the time? WHY? You should be asking "Does it run smoothly?". If the answer is yes then what does it matter if it's running at 30fps or 60fps? Can most people even tell the difference?

Worrying about fps should be left for the PC.
sniglet
03/05/07 @ 11:37
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Fiat Punto 55 ftw. Lawl. No seriously, lawl - I own one.

Seriously though, I really want this game. No doubt I'll enjoy the supercars but as mentioned previous it'll be the Golfs, Civics, and Clios that I'll enjoy the most. I've also got some serious plans to get amongst the livery editor and make some sweet paint jobs.
XdarXideX
03/05/07 @ 11:38
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bicky - Not that it matters much to me but I can tell the difference for sure.

I'm looking forward to the livery editor mode the most... is that weird!?
Concrete
03/05/07 @ 11:42
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"If you had a Honda Civic Type R and you were to weight-reduce it down to say 900kilos and put it up to 600 horsepower with racing slicks for the downforce, it should be able to compete against Enzos and things like that,"

Ahahahahahahahaha, I'm looking forward to this game so much, please don't let this guy ruin it! So slicks are going to provide down force? And how the hell is an FWD Civic going to put 600 bhp down? Even with the Vtec's low torque figures its still going to wheelspin all day long, of course to get a 2 litre N/A engine up to 600 bhp you have to go forced induction, which would generate so much lag it would be untrue, the Enzo would have finished the race by the time he had spooled up. If this game is being billed as realistic, please dont go down the Fast and Furious route of mods being king over common sense.
parky69
03/05/07 @ 11:47
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Where is the demo for this game, I'm sure someone said it would be in April........so where the hell is it :)
MrBiggles
03/05/07 @ 11:49
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360 is the only console bringing the goods, Wii and PS3 have nothing on them worth playing at the moment in Europe. Without 360 we would be well and truly fucked.
SpacemanX
03/05/07 @ 11:52
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@bicky316

The frame rate matters to me. There are so many racing games available (I have PS3, Xbox 360 and PC) that I can be picky and only buy games that are really well done and have the features I appreciate. The studio at one point informed us that the game was running @60fps. I just want to know it it's still the case.
Valver
03/05/07 @ 11:53
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@ Concrete

Forza 2 has extensive modding options - so the hypothetical 600bhp Civic he was talking about could well have had an engine swap and a drivetrain change - so it could be 4WD if that an upgrade option.
joeking
03/05/07 @ 12:01
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This thread needs more Mapster! ;)
mkreku
03/05/07 @ 12:02
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After playing Test Drive Unlimited, I'm having a hard time seeing myself going back to those confined spaces of racing tracks. I want a free world, dammit!

Everything else sounds awesome though.
Talha
03/05/07 @ 12:09
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Just to be an all-around SOB: the road textures in screenshots look horrific - no better than those in GT4, in fact!!! :-)

And hey, why can't we transfer photos on to USB's in X360 games? That just plain sucks - there is absolutely no way to transfer game photos to the PC from the XBox, despite the presence of Ethernet port and USB.
bicky316
03/05/07 @ 12:09
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@SpacemanX

Must be good having so much choice!! =D

But say the game came out and didn't run at a solid 60fps as they have claimed it will, would that stop you buying and enjoying the game even if after playing the demo you thought "Hmm didn't notice any framerate issues there...."?

How many fps does Project Gotham Racing 3 run at?
Scientist
03/05/07 @ 12:11
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"Ahahahahahahahaha, I'm looking forward to this game so much, please don't let this guy ruin it! So slicks are going to provide down force? And how the hell is an FWD Civic going to put 600 bhp down? Even with the Vtec's low torque figures its still going to wheelspin all day long, of course to get a 2 litre N/A engine up to 600 bhp you have to go forced induction, which would generate so much lag it would be untrue, the Enzo would have finished the race by the time he had spooled up. If this game is being billed as realistic, please dont go down the Fast and Furious route of mods being king over common sense."

Well, the Lancia Delta S4 rally car from 1985-86 had over 550hp. Henri Toivonen (best rally driver eva!) managed to lap Estoril fast enough to theoretically qualify 6th in the 1986 GP race.
So it is realisitically possible.
smoothpete
03/05/07 @ 12:12
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krudster, how was it graphically? Were you impressed?
dbeamish
03/05/07 @ 12:18
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good call on the math thing. man i hate Americans saying that. and Legos. The plural of Lego is Lego.
SpacemanX
03/05/07 @ 12:19
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@bicky316

I've couple of issues with PGR3

1) It's almost like PGR2
2) 30fps (+ slowdowns especially at beginning of a race)
3) 1024x600 resolution

I regret buying that one.
optimusprym8
03/05/07 @ 12:26
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MMUK - what were you doing reading IGN? :P

confirmed as being 60FPS *apprently* but from unreliable source (GAME staff) and demo next week (same source)...
Virvel
03/05/07 @ 12:29
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@ Bicky316: Why do people want to know this all the time? WHY? You should be asking "Does it run smoothly?". If the answer is yes then what does it matter if it's running at 30fps or 60fps? Can most people even tell the difference?

Bicky, you must be kidding! There is a HUGE different between 60fps and 30fps, especially in driving games.. I am totally put off by driving games not running at full framerate. I can even spot the difference between 40fps and 60fps, it is so obvious. Whats wrong with people not able to see this? Are your brains running at lower frame-rate, thus affecting how much visuals you can process every second? Or are you just easy to please?

Anyway, Forza-2 looks very nice, a pity I am a Sony fanboi and wont get the 360. Oh well, I have to wait for GT5 or play some emulated GT4 ;)
smoothpete
03/05/07 @ 12:29
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GAME staff? Jesus, surely we can do better than that for into? :P
kangarootoo
03/05/07 @ 12:32
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@Virvel

"Or are you just easy to please?"

Hey man, don't knock it. its perfectionists like you that are always stressed about something.

I probably can't tell the difference between 40 and 60 fps, but I'm fine with that. The fact I can't tell the difference means its never a problem.
Concrete
03/05/07 @ 12:34
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Ok but even with a new drive train and engine (which both add substantial amounts of weight, and would upset the balance and handling of the car) you are still left with a car with the aerodynamics of a family hatchback. I love my Jap imports but its silly to compare the two IMO.

The Lancia was equiped with a four wheel drive system that allowed them to put the power down ;)
kangarootoo
03/05/07 @ 12:35
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@optimusprym8

In my experience GAME staff often know less than my gran about up and coming features (and my gran died ages ago).

Anecdote time.

It was in a game store (Game Station I believe in this particular case) I heard the resident teenager (to be said in a Capcom RE cutscene voice) boldly informing his friends of how the next rev of PSP would a 4GB hdd in it. Riiiight.
optimusprym8
03/05/07 @ 12:38
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hey I said *apparently* and "unreliable source"... :P
mkreku
03/05/07 @ 12:41
#42
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Most people can't tell the difference between 40 fps and 60 fps in a racing game. The human eye/brain can easily spot the difference if you were to flash black and white screens in 40 or 60 fps, but the changes are too subtle in racing games for the eye to register the slight changes.

If you're driving at 180 km/h, you'll travel 50 m/s. That means that you've traveled slightly less than one meter between screen updates in 60 fps and slightly more than one meter between screen updates in 40 fps. To put it in perspective: a normal car is around 4 meters long, so you'll basically have traveled the distance of 1/4 of your car. In the middle of the screen, the differences will be marginal and undistinguishable. Around the edges of the screen is your best shot at actually noticing anything. Even then it's usually extremely difficult.

Why did I write all this?
stoopidgreg
03/05/07 @ 12:44
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um, most sims don't use 60fps physics. GTR, toca and richard burns rally were much higher. GTR, toca and live for speed all have accurate tyre modeling, inside and outside temps, hot patches, etc. forza 2's physics aren't anything spectacular, it's still a half and half arcade racer / sim, so i dunno why they go on and on about how cool the physics are when it's still pretty easy/unrealistic to drive
joeking
03/05/07 @ 12:46
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I want this game so badly! :(
phl0w
03/05/07 @ 13:16
#45
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[quote]Around the edges of the screen is your best shot at actually noticing anything[/quote]

And that's exactly what disturbs me so much about racers running at 30fps.
Of course you can't really tell the difference looking straight ahead. Try driving your real car at around 200kph (if that's possible in the UK). Your "picture" keeps pretty stable and the only time you realize how fast you are really going (apart from wind noises and the engine) is when you look at things rushing by, i.e. at the edge of your vision field or the asphalt in front of your bumper.
That said, ANYBODY can tell the difference between 30 and 60fps in a racer, alone from looking at passing by textures. And tbh it's quite important either, because I don't want to rely solely on landmarks to set my braking points but wanna estimate my velocity too. I had the biggest problems in Forza telling the difference between approaching a corner at say 120 or 180kph. Although it did build a proper sense of speed, differences occured only late with GTR and P1 cars. And having to look at stuttering asphalt textures or signs/ curbs rushing by at only 30 is extremely disturbing while racing. I noticed an effect only seen on TV too: Asphalt textures in Forza sometimes become stable and stop moving at certain speeds, much like wagon wheels spinning on a TV screen, which is due to the rotations being slower than the frames per second and known as a strobe effect. It occured in GT too, but not until going ~400kph on the Test oval. Just shows that textures are applied to a track's surface in a certain pattern
Anway, glad they managed to run the game @60 (knocks on wood). Finally a Forza I can live with.
asphaltcowboy
03/05/07 @ 13:19
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This is gonna be awesome!

/needs to learn about cars...
SomaticSense
03/05/07 @ 13:43
#47
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mkreku - I'm sick of people going on about "You can't tell the difference, blah, blah, blah".

I can tell the difference quite clearly, and even my non-gaming bird noticed the 30fps within seconds of me first starting a race in Forza after showing her the 60fps of GT4. It was little test I felt I had to do to prove to myself that people like you are wrong, and that I'm not some kind of genetic freak with superhuman eyesight.
Without telling her what I was testing her for, I asked her what looked different between the two (same track, same car, same bonnet view), and she said straight away about Forza "it looks a lot less smooth than the other one. A bit rougher".

Fucksake, I wish my eyesight was as crap as people like yours, as it takes me a long while for my eyes to get used to a new 30fps game after playing a 60fps for a decent amount of time, as at first it looks as rough Bill Oddie after a long night on the piss. It took me ages to get used to Halo after hours of playing Timesplitters 2. Same the other way round as well, as after playing a 30fps game for some time, 60fps ones actually make me feel travel sick.
Edited 2 times, most recently on 03/05/07 @ 14:46
bonker
03/05/07 @ 13:59
#48
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"I've couple of issues with PGR3

1) It's almost like PGR2
2) 30fps (+ slowdowns especially at beginning of a race)
3) 1024x600 resolution

I regret buying that one. "

This statement is utterly beyond my comprehension.

I'm beginning to think that I'm not going to enjoy Forza because I don't have a spanner-shaped cock as it sounds like some of the others in here have ...

Is this game going to be a reasonably easy to pick up n play racer without having to resort to dismantling my "big-end" etc (yawn)?
SpacemanX
03/05/07 @ 14:02
#49
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If it runs @60fps it is a big plus for the game.
bonker
03/05/07 @ 14:03
#50
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"Of course you can't really tell the difference looking straight ahead. Try driving your real car at around 200kph (if that's possible in the UK).
Your "picture" keeps pretty stable and the only time you realize how fast you are really going (apart from wind noises and the engine) is when you look at things rushing by, i.e. at the edge of your vision field or the asphalt in front of your bumper. "

Last time I drove my car at 220kph (in the UK I might add - M6 towards Scotland) I left new indents in the steering wheel cos I was gripping it so hard through fear, never mind looking out the side windows etc :)

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