First WAR city siege takes place

By Oli Welsh Published 2 October, 2008

Altdorf sacked in walkover, bugs blamed.

Although Mythic hoped that it would take at least a month before a city siege took place in its new MMO Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, the first occurrence has come less than two weeks after launch.

On Tuesday night, the Destruction side (bad guys) attacked and successfully sacked Altdorf, the capital of the Order races (good guys), on the English-language European server, Karak Eight Peaks. Another first for Europe's raiders.

According to forum posts, the raid didn't present the expected challenge. Reports put the Destruction force at a relatively small 30 to 40 players, many of whom weren't at max level, and weren't wearing the best equipment.

The entire process, beginning with the capture of the contested zones, began in the early evening and was over by the small hours of the morning. This despite the fact that Mythic boss Mark Jacobs told Eurogamer in a recent interview that completing a city siege in one night would be impossible:

"We've laid everything out in a manner that your side has to accomplish a lot, so it's going to take time. We've seen the other games out there where people can do things late at night while nobody else is on, but it doesn't work that way in WAR. It's impossible," he said.

"It should be weeks unless we really messed up."

Plenty of members of the WAR community are already crying foul and claiming that Mythic "messed up". There are reports - mostly from the Order side, naturally - that Destruction exploited a bug in the game's most recent patch update.

One eyewitness was shocked at how easy it was for Destruction to overrun the city's defences, noting that the enemy force entered the final keep guarding Altdorf via a rear door used by the Order side, rather than having to use siege weapons to take the main door down as intended.

"The whole thing," the poster said, referring to the capture of the final fortress, "for a small group of sub level 40s with probably very poor gear compared to endgame, took 15 minutes tops. This is supposed to be the final objective in an epic battle to unlock city sieges."

Destruction players pointed to the lack of player defence on the Order side, but this scenario is what Jacobs said he was trying to avoid. At any rate, this is certainly not what Mythic would have hoped for from the first attempt to take on its grand Realm-versus-Realm endgame.

We've contacted Mythic for comment. In the meantime, you can pick over the bones of the event in the thread on Warhammer Alliance.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (39) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Fleisch #1 3 years ago

    First!

    to be honest, if they're going to build a back door route into the city then its going to get used, players find easy routes all the time and its just a case of ensuring they put enough NPC gaurds in the way to deter people.

  • Nostrus #2 3 years ago

    Did they kill the King in the end then?

  • UncleLou #3 3 years ago

    "to be honest, if they're going to build a back door route into the city then its going to get use"

    It's not meant to be usable for the other side.

  • Dizzy #4 3 years ago

    TBH this was expected. Mythic needs to tweak this part of the game some more. Also with the low numbers of Order people this is a very hollow "victory" (with Destro players rushing to higher levels asap to have this "honor";).

    I guess we will see how easy it will be in 2-3 months.

  • Benno #5 3 years ago

    So basically they exploited a bug that will be fixed soon. No big deal.

  • Wellytopp #6 3 years ago

    Working as intended!

  • Gaol #7 3 years ago

    This will be a shock to them, and I hope they can tweak/fix it quickly.

    WAR has put all it's endgame eggs in this basket, and it's an incredibly difficult balancing act. Not only that, but even if they get it correct, the same siege over and over will quickly loose it's appeal.

    Even Blizzard have struggled with endgame pvp - look at the history of Alterac Valley, devolving to a race where enemy players actually ride right past each other in the middle of a 'battlefield'. This is why they scaled down their endgame to the Arena, and in any case they can always claim that pvp is secondary to the main event of raiding. WAR doesn't have that luxury.

  • Fleisch #8 3 years ago

    "Did they kill the King in the end then? "

    from what i understand of the endgame the king is captured (not killed) and is taken to the opposing realms capital city. The pillaging then lasts 36hours before it resets...if i remember correctly.

    Anyone finding the game still quite stuttery and jerky? with frame rates dropping off all over the shop..

  • Nostrus #9 3 years ago

    Still got to defeat the King though. Last I heard, they hadn't actually done that which would mean that they didn't actually complete it.

  • MikeP #10 3 years ago

    @ Fleisch

    have you tried the BuffThrottle Addon? It can help reduce stuttering for some people by controlling the rate at which buffs/debuffs are checked. It's very frequent as default, so the messaging can cause stutters.

    You can get it here.

  • Gl3n #11 3 years ago

    The whole thing is based on PvP. If there's no players, then it probably would be a walkover.

    This is probably more of a problem about player number imbalance than a huge problem with the end-game.

    Sieges are primarily for Tier 4 players between 31 and the level cap of 40, if you've 20 players taking on a load of NPC's, they're going to win eventually aren't they? city sieging is the first step to unlocking the more epic take downs like killing the king etc...

    Put a load of players up against an undefended area, albiet defended with NPC's.. they're eventually going to get in.

    They should've locked down the cities until a certain number of players from each realm had reached the last tier.
    Edited by 2 at 02/10/08 @ 12:45

  • hula hoops #12 3 years ago

    It will take weeks to capture a city? Is he mad? Do you expect people will paly this game for a few weeks no-stop?

    Even if your argue that people can just log in - contribute - log out ... how about if I contributed to the siege for 10 hours every day then when I logged out the city fell hence I missed all the rewards ... I will feel really cheated

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #13 3 years ago

    2-3 weeks in and the game actally HAS endgame content to bitch about bugs - i take that as a good sign

  • Gl3n #14 3 years ago

    According to the thread hardly any Order players bothered to defend altdorf. That and there are just more hardcore levelling sorts playing destruction.

  • smartgun #15 3 years ago

    This is awesome. It's the best thing since the Corrupted Blood plague in WoW. All the balancing out, the 'making it fair', and ensuring that things get done 'the proper way' can make MMOs predictable and sterile. The fact they sneaked in the back door rather than playing by the rules - well, it's a much more exciting narrative. It becomes part of the game's history rather than an everyday occurrence. 'Where were you when Destruction assassins infiltrated our fair city and set it aflame?' as opposed to 'how's the siege going this week?'.


  • anomagnus #16 3 years ago

    ***** HEAD LINE NEWS - THIS JUST IN******

    Today power leveling Destruction players were shocked to find low populations at end game in MMO less than three weeks old.

    One player, Joe No life had this to say

    'Like, i dunno man, i put my time in from headstart, jacked in college and played 20 hours straight per day to get my level 40 chosen, and now, there no players at end game, like what the fuck man? Why arent order doing the same?'

    Order players had this to say

    'meh'

    Heres a fact, most of the CE head start guys, rolled destro. Most of them power leveled like fucking crazy in the race to be first.

    Well congratulations numbnuts, YOU'RE FIRST TO 40!

    Edit @GL3N

    Firstly, this happened at 1am. Its not that order didnt bother, its that they were asleep

    Secondly, at end game, order are badly out numbered. This will change, as order seem content to actually play the game, not rape it.

    @ the guy complaining about 2-3 weeks to capture a city, is everyone supposed to stop because you're logging out? Its called a persistent world for a reason.
    Edited by 1 at 02/10/08 @ 13:32

  • knightmt #17 3 years ago

    Definatelty need more NPCs. There is a massive imbalance to Destruction players and if the players have tried both sides they will understand the layout really well. I am not blaming anyone for choosing the dark side, just needs better game mechanics.
    I think this is just beginning.

  • Markusdragon #18 3 years ago

    No MMO is balanced from the start, because there are just too many things to factor into the calculations. The more humans a game has playing it, the more completely diverse kinds of thinking there are to completely screw up your carefully planned set pieces. Logic is relative, so all you need is one player to squeeze in through the holes that the developers didn't even think of plugging, and your entire thing has gone balls-up.

    Expecting this to be perfect on day one was wishful thinking, and any MMO audience should know that.

  • Gurgeh #19 3 years ago

    The imbalance in numbers between the sides causes other issues as well, such as the long queue times on some servers. Strange how exactly the same problem cropped up in Mythics other MMO, DAoC. Looks like it is an unavoidable "feature" when your end game is faction PvP.

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #20 3 years ago

    @anom

    CED ower here and play order :p

    and btw i wasn't bitching about everyone hitting cap after 2-3 weeks, I was stating it's nice to HAVE endgame content after 2-3 weeks for once and not having players be sitting on their hands for 2-3 months until the devs get 'around to it'.

  • sneetch #21 3 years ago

    @Nostrus
    "Did they kill the King in the end then?"

    Emperor surely?

    Also is the imbalance towards Destruction that massive? I'm curious about trying WAR (dwarves ftw btw) but I don't want to end up on the new Hibernia. Or the new Midgard. I'd prefer a situation where there's two Albions (to completely belabour the extended DAOC metaphor).

  • anomagnus #22 3 years ago

    @ Kremlik

    same here, in since sunday the 14th with my swordmaster, on Karak Eight Peaks

    i cant understand how someone could be 40 yet?

    i spent nearly two hours last night just exploring the land for tome unlocks, there are so many little items tucked away, adding to much character to the world

    i dont know how i could go back to WoW, its zones now just seem so totally lifeless

  • Lemming81 #23 3 years ago

    I don't really get all the shock and outrage (despite Oli clearing trying to muster some more), when it's already been shown it's down to a bug and not typical of the gameplay.

    That said, I find the whole thing pretty fascinating and see it likened to an online version of sacking Troy while the Trojans slept. It's going to make a good virtual-campfire story anyway.

    Everyone else, get a fucking grip.

  • Lemming81 #24 3 years ago

    "This is probably more of a problem about player number imbalance than a huge problem with the end-game. "

    Because on an English server, there weren't a load of Order players playing past midnight on a weekday? Come on....
    Edited by 1 at 02/10/08 @ 15:34

  • gmmonkey #25 3 years ago

    Heh, "impossible". I bet he feels stupid. Anyway, mythic need to sort out the balance between destro and order. They need to give an incentive to join order. Lets be fair, they look pretty boring and uninteresting compared to destro. If you were "pwning" someone, what would you want to look like? A transvestite elf that tiptoes about, or a spikey death dealing badass? Mythic look like they've spent way more time on the destruction than the empire. That might not be the case, but it looks like it to me. I was going to go destruction but I heard about the queues. Some people left the guild and rolled destruction on another server because they were fed up getting zerged at the castle fort things! That annoyed me because it just compounds the problem. The balance between order and chaos isn't going to change until mythic do something about it. Guys in the guild are getting apathetic to doing defenses because they know they'll lose by numbers. So they're just doing scenarios and grinding.

  • cyber_nicco #26 3 years ago

    No particular reason why I should say it hear, but I wish people would stop getting "lose" and "loose" mixed up.

  • IronCladChicken #27 3 years ago

    @cyber_nicco
    say it hear?

  • Lemming81 #28 3 years ago

    @cyber_nicco:
    @IronCladChicken:

    ROFL

  • davisorle #29 3 years ago

    @ Benno

    "So basically they exploited a bug that will be fixed soon. No big deal. "

    Look its simple. When in AoC you have shitloads of noobs complaining about bugs, about shit that in such a new kinda next gen MMO like that you are expected to have some extra bugs specially and at least for me rather that than something thats a wow in a different show, then they say " I quit this buggy shit ( meaning AoC ) and im going to WaR" ok for me all those noobs are fucktards. They should groow up a bit more and not open their piehols if they dont know shit specially about MMOs.

    I hope they enjoy a bug free game with perfect siege like they were moaning about. Which for me all those guys are pathetic. One thing not liking AoC ( or anything that was. Im not deffending AoC atm. just an example ) and another being plain stupid. Those that did for the performance issues well that sucks.

    So leaving a game thats been worked on its bugs and going to another just released and expect to not be bugged up like shit is a joke to me. Other than that i hope the games turns great so I might move to it too :) Yet i rather see AoC turning into an amazing completely game since its more possible too and has WAY more capabilities

  • Fleisch #30 3 years ago

    @ Mike P, cheers for addon, will give it a whirl!!!

  • kapowaz #31 3 years ago

    Newsflash! Upstart MMO in “difficult to balance world PvP” shocker.

    After the break: the man who married his pet gerbil.

  • AOFanboi #32 3 years ago

    How is this game, which is basically Dark Age of Camelot 2 and thus builds on a PvP game that has been honed for ages with multiple expansions, an "upstart MMO"?

    It just has an imbalance issue between sides that can only be fixed by moving characters around servers - which would suck...

  • Nill #33 3 years ago

    @sneetch

    No, there was no imbalance in number of players on each side at that realm.

    The way WAR works is that it caps population on each server per side, so even if Destruction is full and has a queue, Order can still log in. For this particular server, each side had maxed out its population-slots and had queues.


    Generally speaking though, it's common that each server has slightly more players on the Destruction side, but that'll probably even out eventually.

  • Dizz #34 3 years ago

    'It should be weeks unless we really messed up'

    Well, you messed up I guess...or not, since it's been 2 weeks.

    And lol@destro players defending exploits. Seriously.

  • Sildur #35 3 years ago

    Oh no wayz!! The Chaos side managed to take down an Order city already!?!?

    SRSLY!?!?

    Well everyone didn’t see that coming from a mile away, did they?

    I’d hate to be playing that game. The Chaos side with their small weenies are just going to get constant enjoyment out of killing the children and casual players on the Order side, over and over again, thinking their ‘hardcore’ with their challenge-less battles.

    Chaos is going to own the Order side every time and eventually everyone will try to re-roll Chaos.

  • Lemming81 #36 3 years ago

    @Sildur:

    I'd hate it if you played that game, too. Please don't. Ever.

  • betatester08 #37 3 years ago

    The bottom line is that they used a bug, that we reported during Closed Beta again and again and again, whereby the enemy side could use the backdoor to get into the keep with no need to knock any doors down.

    The outer doors of the fortress itself, the ones that are in the outer wall are still paper thin from beta also.

    Both things were reported ad infinitum on the Closed Beta forums, just a shame Mark Jacobs never read any of the Europeans feedback.

    Egg meet MJ Face :)

  • Abriael #38 3 years ago

    They just exploited a glitch in one of the fortresses. It has already been corrected. Big deal.Maybe the author of the article should get his facts straight before writing.

    Not surprised at hoe Eurogamer is making such a big deal out of nothing, since how they took an hostile stance towards the game since the beginning (it's enough to read how misinformed and misguided their review was).

  • Hospitality #39 3 years ago

    "to be honest, if they're going to build a back door route into the city then its going to get used"

    I've heard that a LOT of Destruction players like using the back door.