Final Fantasy XIII: How Will It Work on 360?

By Richard Leadbetter Published 21 May, 2009

Plus full analysis of the PS3 demo.

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Welcome to the Digital Foundry channel at Eurogamer. Check out the Editor's blog to find out what it's all about, and make sure to explore for loads more technical breakdown and analysis.

We’ve had the Final Fantasy XIII demo for quite some time now, and our detailed analysis of the code (and by extension our first look at Square-Enix’s Crystal Tools engine) is now complete. First impressions? While the engine itself doesn’t particularly excel from a technical standpoint, it’s still a great-looking game, with much of the credit reserved for the development team's many artists.

First things first. Despite some rumbling from certain quarters of the internet, the game engine is most definitely running at 720p resolution, with clean visuals brought out thanks to the inclusion of 2x multisampling anti-aliasing. The inclusion of MSAA is somewhat rare on PS3, but very common indeed on Xbox 360. What is clear, however, is that Square-Enix is facing key technical challenges, with variable and sometimes disappointing performance in the demo code. Translated interviews suggest these issues have already been overcome, but in the here and now, the apparently outdated demo is all we have to work with.

Square-Enix is clearly targeting 30FPS for the game, but it is falling some way short in certain scenes and that’s generally down to the bewildering range of transparent alpha effects employed in the combat. This generally doesn’t tend to be so much of an issue for 360 (thanks to the daughter module of 10MB eDRAM connected directly to the GPU), but it can hit PS3 hard. The solution is generally to employ a lower resolution buffer for these effects (as seen in Killzone 2 and Red Faction Guerilla to name two examples), but right now, Square-Enix is adopting a zero compromise approach to the visuals in terms of visual effects and that’s what’s causing the lag. Where the company is compromising is with certain effects such as the characters’ hair. You’ll see an almost interlacing-style effect – it’s called ‘alpha to coverage’ and it’s an immense fill-rate saver, albeit at the cost of visual quality.

But any way, onto the technical analysis. We have two videos for you to digest, available in both embedded article format and streaming HD. Let’s get going.

Part one of our video analysis of the demo, annotated by Alex Goh.

The first video deals with a lot of what we’ve covered, along with further technical notes on how Square-Enix has achieved what they have with the demo.

Final Fantasy XIII demo analysis, part two.

A second video, with more action from the demo. Towards the tail-end of the vid, we try to put the engine under as much stress as possible to see much the frame rate can be impacted. You’ll also note that some scenes with multiple characters on-screen can also make a real dent in performance. What is interesting about the characters themselves is that while their heads are very highly detailed, the bodies have far fewer polygons in comparison. What is also curious is just how much Square-Enix relies on 2D artwork for the backgrounds, with token 3D objects overlaid to give a greater idea of depth. Again, the fact that it works as well as it does is entirely down to the quality of the art.

A collection of the game’s video sequences.

This final video is analysis-free and simply collates a range of the game’s pre-rendered video scenes. Final Fantasy XIII actually employs different types of cut-scene. There are the showpiece CGI scenes, which are rendered at full 1080p. Next up, there are what you might call engine replacement scenes. There’s nothing here that the engine itself couldn’t render, but it appears that Square-Enix has decided instead to off-load more complex scenes to pre-rendered video, allowing them to break out more crazy effects, higher detailed models and even 4x multisampling AA.

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Comments (77) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Eraysor #1 3 years ago

    New to EG: Extreme nitpicking!

  • Retroid #2 3 years ago

    That was a very interesting article - nice to know there's a place for this on the 'net amongst all the clueless fanboy fighting :)

  • DutchDemons #3 3 years ago

    wow..at first i was like 'hmmmf, might be interesting to read'

    then after the first few lines of mumbo jumbo i realised i don't give a fuck about tech issues....and i never liked FF either....O_0

  • Widge #4 3 years ago

    HERETIC

  • CraigMcG #5 3 years ago

    Interesting article well written and it avoided baiting fanboys

  • Widge #6 3 years ago

    Quite, that is the purpose of this section.

  • GreyBeard #7 3 years ago

    The problem is the "carefully managed" bit.

    If the storytelling is being planned without compromise, with the assumption the end-result is going to be streamed, then there's a lot of work involved in converting it to a real-time playable format. Which most likely means it won't be done that way.

  • wittynic #8 3 years ago

    @Eraysor
    The title article pretty obviously was going to be about technical issues, and PS3/X360 Comparrisons. Seeing as there is so little difference between cross-platform games, and all other "comparrison" articles have to go to pretty minute detail to find differences, what were you expecting?

    @DutchDemons
    So you read an article clearly about technical issues in a Final Fantasy game despite not being interested in either? I think that reflects more on you than on the level of interest the article contains.


    About the article itself, when did it become such an issue for a game to be across multiple discs? I've never really cared, since FF7. Obviously all on one is slightly less hassle, but in a way i kind of like/d multi-disc games, made them feel a bit more epic.

  • lcmnick #9 3 years ago

    Square have already released quite a few 360 games, so they must know what they're doing or going to do.

  • cyacomini #10 3 years ago

    Best read on EG for a long long time..

    Devil is in the detail!

  • Krelle #11 3 years ago

    agree with with last poster, most interesting read in a good while

  • Widge #12 3 years ago

    well, according to the article, the 360 seems to use MDR rather than HDR on the whole. So him saying the PS3's HDR will be paired down to MDR reads true. Of course it is speculation until the thing is built!

  • Eraysor #13 3 years ago

    Wittynic, it was what I was expecting, hence why I said it. When you have to go to such extreme levels to see differences, as you say so yourself, is there really any point? Especially considering that the general conclusion of the article is that both consoles will cope fine. It's not like the PS3 and 360 specifications are from different console generations.

  • penhalion #14 3 years ago

    Can't say I've been much of a FF fan since FF VII. The others were somewhat lacking in anything new and sadly 13 looks to be just better graphics with no real advances in either combat or general gameplay. A realtime combat system is long overdue!

  • Spydy #15 3 years ago

    FFS the game isn't even out yet and here is EG, picking apart a fucking demo.

    Oh how I wish the PS3 had "lightning fast eDRAM".

  • Widge #16 3 years ago

    yeah, I see where you're coming from now.

  • Collymilad #17 3 years ago

    "Wittynic, it was what I was expecting, hence why I said it. When you have to go to such extreme levels to see differences, as you say so yourself, is there really any point? Especially considering that the general conclusion of the article is that both consoles will cope fine. It's not like the PS3 and 360 specifications are from different console generations."

    Indeed, everyone but Sony and their fanboys seem to know this.

  • Bigglesworth #18 3 years ago

    I still maintain that these op-ed articles (following on of course from the notorious face-offs) are little more than the guesswork you can find in forums and other sites across on the net, though admittedly there's somewhat more education and reason going on here. The Digital Foundry system (which as an ongoing concern must surely be wholly owned by Eurogamer by now? =)) can only analyse the symptoms, not the cause.

    Anyway, on the topic of 'engine-replacement scenes', its a practice thats been employed for a long time, and not just in this generation. Primarily it allows the developer much greater freedom to switch scenes back and forth, or to include greater detail or object diversity in a scene that could otherwise be achieved without clearing out the ingame assets and loading a set of new ones (in the case of a cut-scene involving more than one 'set', sometimes multiple times). Uncharted, as a recent example, employed this technique very effectively to insert transitions between areas, often hiding the actual loading of the new level's assets behind the cut-scene being played. Final Fantasy as a series is notorious for leaving the player looking at a blank screen while the narrative bounces between various different scenes and locations. This will go along way to preventing this and maintaining the player's level of immersion.
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/09 @ 14:20

  • Bigglesworth #19 3 years ago

    @penhalion
    Why is it long overdue? Should every game be, say, a first-person shooter?

  • des #20 3 years ago

    How Will It Work on 360?Magic...anything else is a speculation...
    Title should be changed to speculative analysis..

    Besides this is a really really old demo.

  • Weebleboy #21 3 years ago

    I'm speechless

  • stevetuck #22 3 years ago

    Damn cant wait to play this game next year!

  • Entity #23 3 years ago

    "Final Fantasy XIII: How Will It Work on 360?"

    Redbull influenced Hamster+Wheel?

  • Vanmunt #24 3 years ago

    so... a game that you haven't seen is going to be better than the game that you haven't seen finished.. so judging from that do you do junior voodoo.

  • schnide #25 3 years ago

    Does anyone else read these articles even though they haven't got a clue what's being said half the time and somehow still enjoy them?

    Or is that just me? No? No? Just me then.

  • Darren #26 3 years ago

    Interesting feature, I didn't know the Xbox 360 struggled with HDR lighting but I did know that the one game that supposedly has the best lighting, Halo 3, runs at an ugly sub-720p with zero anti-aliasing, which IMO almost totally negates the impressive lighting effects anyway. Why? Because the game at times looks like an upscaled Xbox game when the lighting effects aren't apparent, such as indoors, that's why. I think Halo 3 is one of the fugliest games I've seen this generation, which was very disappointing considering that the earlier games were ground-breaking visually on the original Xbox.

    As for Final Fantasy XIII, sounds like the game will be pretty much identical on both platforms, the key difference being that one will come on more than a single disc. Personally, I'll opt for the PS3 version for that reason alone and since the game is unlikely to run natively at 1080p anyway, those 1080p video sequences are going to look that bit nicer than anything the 360 can render real-time at 720p, right?

  • xXn00bXx #27 3 years ago

    Who cares what Digital Foundry & Eurogamer have to say these days? Boring article, discussing small differences that noone will be able to see in the final product is senseless. At the end of the day it's all about the gameplay and its quality. These articles are pointless.

  • Fixxxer #28 3 years ago

    If you find this kind of thing dull then this article probably isn't for you. Not everything is.

  • Buztafen #29 3 years ago

    Good read, i confess to not knowing 100% of what Ricardo's on about but still t'was enjoyable.

    EDIT: schnide, guess this answers your question....
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/09 @ 14:46

  • Daymare #30 3 years ago

    Yeah, pointless articles focusing on pointless details nobody cares about. They should cancel them. In fact, why do we even have sports competitions, for instance? It's only a matter of (milli)seconds/inches between the first place and the last in so many of 'em, right?! So why bother? Let's just give every competitor a medal and be done with it!

    ffs

  • marmaduke #31 3 years ago

    Um... could you freeze the video when you want to highlight something next time? I didn't have time to read half of the tiny captions.

  • jonthepymm #32 3 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    "As expected, the PS3 version of a multiformat game will be the worse looking version, nothing new or unexpected there."

    Did you even read the article??? Where did you get this conclusion from?!

  • XanderFish #33 3 years ago

    I can't believe people still read these articles when it will obviously annoy them (no idea why it annoys them in the first place). Do yourself and everybody else a favour and just don't get involved.

  • Diomedes #34 3 years ago

    Another example of wishful thinking by Eurogamer ....oh if only S-E did let you handle the conversion decisions this must be a nightmare for you!.Fact is ,the demo was only 50% complete ,the game will use a 50Gb Blu Ray ,probably will make use of the serial HDD to cache some 4-5Gb of data etc etc

  • Diomedes #35 3 years ago

    Besides ,I have been seeing FMV videos in FF since FFVII and most of those couldnt be done right now real time anyway ....good luck showing the crippling of MIdgard ,the fall of Alexandria etc with ingame engines.Now with FFXIII it will be the same ,there will be some epic FMV here and there with a scope that cant be done on the ingame engine.Oh never mind ,the Xbox fan (he will get an orgasm next time he says lightning fast Edram!) has seen 30 minutes of demo early in the game so he must know better right ?

  • david78 #36 3 years ago

    There's no chance they'll get rid of pre rendered shit on 360. They really do look quite a bit better than normal graphics, so they 360 game would look noticeably worse in some areas.

  • XanderFish #37 3 years ago

    The guy who has played past Final Fantasies and posts on an internet forum must know better than a proffesional videogame journalist with more than 10 years experience, right?

  • miiiguel #38 3 years ago

    Yeah, I give you that PS3 is the better video player. The better option would be to play the game on a 360 and watch the cut-scenes on a PS3.

  • IneptPercy #39 3 years ago

    As said many times, just becuase a PS3 version of a game needs 50Gb doesn't mean the 360 version will need 50GB. It all comes down to compression, PS3= loads of room why bother compressing anything?, 360= not as much room so compress everything. I don't think the 360 version will make it to 1 disc, but I can't imagine it being more than 3 and may just make it onto 2.

    As for demo size, I have seen many demos which are big files (over half the game) yet don't equate to half the game.

    As for the PS3 using pre-encoded 1080p video, I do doubt this will make it to the 360 but I am sure the game engine at 720p will do a good job, if there is a few scenes which really do push it further the 360 could still use pre-renders for those.

    Basically only time will tell, but this does really fit with what I orginally thought, the PS3 version may have a slight edge, but is that enough to spend £300.00 for a PS3... I don't think so.

    Saying that I am hoping for a PC version so I can have 1080p at all times.

  • Bigglesworth #40 3 years ago

    To be honest, given the news that S-E are including the Japanese vocal track on the Blu-ray, I'm not convinced they've struggled to fit the game itself into the space available. As mentioned above, perhaps the full-HD FMV will see a quality reduction but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't that many other differences.

  • Mr_Dodger #41 3 years ago

    @marmaduke

    Pause button?

  • HarryPalmer #42 3 years ago

    Looks awesome - very ffVII

  • VeyronMick #43 3 years ago

    I don't mind the odd FMV once it's plays smoothly.
    I still play the earlier FF on the DS and PSP, these minute graphical differences between the consoles won't make much of a difference if the gameplay and story is good.

    I'm just happy they have returned to a more turn based format.
    I wished they had an option to increase the difficulty the last few FF games weren't much of a challenge.

    I'm curious to see how the 360 version will look. Not many games are ported from the PS3 to the 360.
    Will be interesting to see if they give it a go or rush out a piece of crap.

  • butler` #44 3 years ago

    looks insanely good to me, especially char faces

  • Zaltan #45 3 years ago

    "Our guess? Such scenes will indeed be real-time on Xbox 360, saving gigabytes of data over the PS3 version with only minimal amounts of difference in the quality of the visuals." I really really doubt this would happen.

  • GamesConnoisseur #46 3 years ago

    Guessimate, this article and people contributions to the post, is all just suppositions based on an education guesses.

    Sure makes lots of sense that PS3 will have advantage of BD, but AA advantages and frames rate more usually go to the X360. Still as a lots of FMV will be involved.....so would seem PS3 will edge X360 slightly.

    Simply put, I would put nothing in stock until we have actual games and EG head-to-head tm machine been put to work!

    EDIT: And a proper grounded up PC version would destroys PS3 and X360 from a great height! Still not meaning that I would play on PC version as would always rather the comfy and lazy way of playing the console game on console anyway!
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/09 @ 17:41

  • Alkeno #47 3 years ago

    Looking forward to more articles like this!

    Some of us just love to know about this sort technical details, I wish EG would do a series of articles on "current-gen technologies" and give some good explanations and videos about effects like HDR, depth of field and so on.

    Most people couldn't care less, but hell, some of us actually enjoy technology.

  • firefly #48 3 years ago

    @Bigglesworth

    Have they 100% confirmed they're including it now? Because I read the IGN interview as them angling towards just doing English with both versions.
    I hope we do get the Japanese track. Square-Enix do good English dubs (Dragon Quest VIII's was awesome) but the original's the original. Tempted to go for the import anyway.

  • Ryze #49 3 years ago

    Very interesting.

    I do hope that MS are allowing for multi disc games to be installed to HDD, with only one disc required to be left in the drive to play.

    No need to force any disc swaps if they only demand that disc 1 stays in the drive.

  • Velios #50 3 years ago

    Errr... why is this game being picked apart before it has even been fully reviewed? this is almost certain to be a groundbreaking game in the way FFVII was when it hit PS1.

    I forsee a 10/10 score regardless of all this minor nit picking.

    ps. it's sure to be smoother on the 360, which is ludicrous considering that this is one of the games that the PS3 was made for.

  • dominalien #51 3 years ago

    I really enjoy these articles. That's just the kind of stuff I'd write if I had access to expensive equipment. Please keep them coming.

    I usually don't enjoy the comments sections attached to them, though.
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/09 @ 18:42

  • butler` #52 3 years ago

    i'd prefer 60fps though :(

  • IneptPercy #53 3 years ago

    i'd prefer 60fps though :(

    Build/Buy a good PC.

  • Chupakun #54 3 years ago

    @R Leadbetter: Loving the concept behind this feature! Need more of this stuff.

  • Widge #55 3 years ago

    I would love a PC version that could run ok on a 8600GT! Portable FFXIII would be ace.

    I stuck the Last Remnant demo on and that ran godawfully.

  • kenshiropkt #56 3 years ago

    Useless article in my opinion, a really really old build, and eurogamer already suggesting that 360 version could even be better, just LOL

    "ps. it's sure to be smoother on the 360, which is ludicrous considering that this is one of the games that the PS3 was made for."

    srsly just lol
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/09 @ 20:05

  • Oldern #57 3 years ago

    Come on, boys, seriously.
    Someone actually puts a lot of effort behind two twings, which is:

    1. There WILL be Final Fantasy XIII on 360
    2. The demo (whichever build it was) is available already on PlayStation 3

    So the article is examining how it will be / Should be done. Interesting read.
    But you have to come in, and say "fanboy" and "wishful thinking" and "omg,it is an old build! It cant be done better on 360!". Really?

  • Mr.DNA #58 3 years ago

    Is this the same Richard Leadbetter of Mean Machines fame? The one who was said to sport a "council cut" in one of MM's editorials back in the early 90s?

    If so, say hello to Jaz and Rad for me!

  • TexMurphy01 #59 3 years ago

    R Leadbetter, you owe me a VF3 book from my star letter in SSM, you bastard.

  • Bigglesworth #60 3 years ago

    @firefly
    Have they 100% confirmed they're including it now? Because I read the IGN interview as them angling towards just doing English with both versions.

    To be honest I was just referring to the news item that showed up bemoaning the 360 version. Having now actually looked at the source interview on IGN I can see you're right: Kitase says quite unambiguously that they're not planning on providing the Japanese voices outside of Japan.

  • GreyBeard #61 3 years ago

    Its got to be said, of all the big Japanese developers SE seem to be really suffering this generation.

    Being honest, Last Remnant was a complete clusterfuck. Its only playable on 360 because MS introduced their installation feature making it playable, and lets not ask what happened to the PS3 version of it...

    Tri-Ace is a separate team, and they never were technically that adept so its not surprising their 360 product hasn't been stunning.

    I'm sure FFXIII will look good, but I'm not expecting to be wowed technically. Which isn't to say I dont have high hopes for it as a game, just that the signs aren't pointing at it being a coding showcase.

  • chrisola #62 3 years ago

    They will employ a complex system of levers and pulleys, combined with the redbull tripping hamsters in the wheel.

    It's interesting how fps and refresh rates and lighting effects are now debated in the console world, it used to be the realm of PC players tweaking games 'Video' settings to get a game playable and looking nice, console games just, well, worked and we accepted them.

  • matthew #63 3 years ago

    hi

  • rotmm #64 3 years ago

    @Crofto, "But yeah, anyone who thinks GTA IV is a 10/10 game is irrelevant. Move along chaps."

    GTAIV is one of the best games I have played. In fact, I'm still playing it.

    Go figure.

  • IkariW #65 3 years ago

    I viewed your videos and read the 'Buzz' word comments that went along with them....

    Chr!st almighty, when are you people going to stop over analysing the technical aspects of games. Especially when comparing the two current generation of consoles, enough already!!

    I couldn't believe what I was reading during the videos though, I mean, who stops to analyse partical effects when your playing a game? or whether the resolution of self shadowing and lighting when both characters are on screen cause a FPS drop??!
    How do you know?? for all you know, it could be an object in the background that it slighty higher poly than it should be in that shot!

    A FPS performance bar does not always reflect what is happening on the screen, believe it or not, there are other things going on in the back ground...

    Please don't think that just because SQE were stupid enough to give you a build with a perforance analyser on it that you are now the gods of what effects the performance of a game. Your not, no one person is!

    It takes a team of highly skilled individuals to bring these games to the self, if it was as easy as just running an FPS analyser and looking at where it slows down, anyone could increase the FPS!! they can't! if they could, they'd be doing it, not talking about it!

    Now be quiet about performance, and do what you are supposed to be doing, telling us about the game!!!

    :/
    Ikari







  • Bigglesworth #66 3 years ago

    @IkariW
    You've misunderstood the nature of how the information is obtained, and its actually worse than you think. It's not that they have a build with a performance analyser, they're using an external frame grabber and studying the output from that.

    In general though I agree with you: as 'technical analysis', Richard Leadbetter's articles are dubious at best.

  • Scimarad #67 3 years ago

    I have to say, I didn't even notice the framerate drops even when there was a gauge on screen telling me it was happening!

    This really looks incredible. The amount of work that has gone into the character and enemy designs and the way they move and 'act' is just amazing. Even on the people that are just minor characters in the background. I still don't think any other JRPG can touch FF.

    Oh, nice soundtrack as well. Very reminiscent of both Unlimited Saga and FFX.

  • RickHard #68 3 years ago

    Next question now : How will it work on Wii ? ;)

  • Hughes. #69 3 years ago

    Wow, now EG is prepared to declare the 360 has the best graphics when that version of the game doesn't even exist yet!

    FUGGIN' AWEZUM WERK GYZE!!

  • IneptPercy #70 3 years ago

    "Wow, now EG is prepared to declare the 360 has the best graphics when that version of the game doesn't even exist yet!

    FUGGIN' AWEZUM WERK GYZE!! "

    Did anybody else read that as SDF setup early defence?

  • Hughes. #71 3 years ago

    I like speculative fiction as much as the next guy, just not when it's billed as analysis.

    If this article's piling of guess-work upon supposition upon assumption upon speculation represents a delusion you feel the need to protect, feel free to hit the ignore button, I only come to EG every few months to remind myself why I only come to EG every few months. That would be down to articles like this, and commenters like you.

  • butler` #72 3 years ago

    Build/Buy a good PC.

    I have a fine PC. I can't see what relevance that has to FFXIII.

  • layleeloo #73 3 years ago

    farticus"fuckwit"maximus

    hahah OMG you actually post on 360 forums as well as PS3 ones (despite the fact you are jealous not to own one).

    Even in your own 360 fanboy page you still have to slag off the PS3. You really are histerical haha.

    Sorry to everyone else - this isnt faboyism, i just have to actually see what this thick cunt actually says on a 360 page considering 99% of his ridiculous posts on on PS3 pages when he doesnt own one, nor know the first thing about them,

  • funkateer #74 3 years ago

    "Our guess? Such scenes will indeed be real-time on Xbox 360, saving gigabytes of data over the PS3 version with only minimal amounts of difference in the quality of the visuals."

    If that happens I'll eat my left shoe.

    Of course it would be waaaay too expensive to turn those FMV sequences into real-time rendered ones that still look acceptably close the pre-rendered movies while keeping loading times reasonably low.
    A far better and more likely solution is that they just rely on having to spread across multiple discs anyway and perhaps compress a bit more and/or render to lower resolutions.

    This article is already highly speculative, but that particular speculation was bordering on the silly IMHO.

    "Next question now : How will it work on Wii ? ;) "
    LOL, yeah I wonder how the remake will look like on the PS5 ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 08/06/09 @ 13:44

  • Skurmedel #75 3 years ago

    "But yeah, anyone who thinks GTA IV is a 10/10 game is irrelevant. Move along chaps."

    Some of us can actually accept that people have different opinions. It might be something you want to work on, but I guess that takes away the chance for you to hop in a thread and spew some bile.

  • Darren #76 3 years ago

    Ah, it really wouldn't be a comments thread without Crofto telling us in his rather rude and forceful way which games we should be liking and which games we shouldn't. ;)

  • Keivz #77 3 years ago

    They should update this article now that we have the first footage of the 360 running the game at E3.

    http://ww w.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-...