Fight Night Round 4 Comments by Kristan Reed

This realism argument is a bit bizarre, I think everyone who uses it should go out and have a fight,
and see how many and what type of punches you land, and it has to be with someone bigger than you, no little girls.
I bet if you pick on someone decent you probably will only get the first one then it will be,
all cuddles and what the fuck are you doing.
Try it on your boss.

Kargarootoo

"Why is one failing better than the other?"

Thats just it, it isnt. It is just preferable to some people depending on the style or way you want to play. Like I made the fifa and pro comparison, if people want a slower more realistic game then use sticks, if they want a nimbler, more accurate (shot placement) game then use buttons. Its about choice thats what im saying. Neither is better as everyones preference is different - if just being able to choose a preference would be well......preferable. :-)

I understand your comment about fighters shots needing practice in real life to land etc and I agree with that - but then, these are pro boxers in the game after all. Not amateurs. Therefore should be able to throw the exact shot they want when they want wouldnt they? Admittedly if I got in a ring again to box I would be like a fish on a beach with my coordination haha. BUt as i day, its not about amateurs is it. Its about pros.

"I understand your comment about fighters shots needing practice in real life to land etc and I agree with that - but then, these are pro boxers in the game after all. Not amateurs. Therefore should be able to throw the exact shot they want when they want wouldnt they?"

This is true. You don't expect Sam Fisher or Agent 47 to be crap at shooting. That is the point of playing the role in a game, rather than playing yourself. Fair point.

I am coming around on this issue. My only real worry is that people will use the buttons and never touch the stick system, and in the end lose something from the enjoyment potential as a result. I even recall seeing a review of FN2 where the reviewer had used the buttons instead of the sticks and formed an opinion accordingly (which was both unprofessional, and sheer madness) .

Definite buy... even through I found the demo solid in comparison to FN3. Do miss the button interface for those quick direct jabs when you need them.

--- although after reading about the glitches and possible RRoD's this is causing at the moment I think I will leave it until they patch it, or get it on PS3 if it isn't too horrid.

I really liked FNR3 but was shocked that I didn't like the demo of this new version. It all felt a bit too fast an imprecise IMO.

"My only real worry is that people will use the buttons and never touch the stick system, and in the end lose something from the enjoyment potential as a result"

Isnt the reverse also true? Many will try the sticks-only game, find they hate it and never get to experience the brilliantly subtle clobbering action.

What seems to be hard to put across to people is that the pro-button crowd are not saying 'sticks suck, ban them' but 'we would like the option please, segregate us if necessary' whereas stick-only people tend to be 'buttons suck, YOU suck, get orf moi laaaaaand!'.

@Darren

The demo is ridiculously easy, it seems almost impossible to lose and you have near infinite stamina.

I don't know if you've played the full game but it's much harder (I got it yesterday).

Love how it looks, hate how it plays

@farticusmaximus

Sticks only give you one level of punching speed and power too. You gain momentum by using body movement. Punches are as much about hips and stance as they are arms.

No entirely true...hips and stance I agree with their importance, particularly when it come to power, hoever the sticks allow you to vary the speed at which you throw the punches... the snap at the end of the movement if you will. Push the stick slower, you produce a slower jab than if you push it up quickly.

Boxing (I'm no expert!) is about varying the speed of your attacks as well as the type... if you throw the same speed jab at an opponent all the time, he's gonna work you out pretty quickly and pick you off.

That said, aren't the 360 buttons analogue anyway? I know the old xbox ones are.

This read like a 9

@el bandito

"the sticks allow you to vary the speed at which you throw the punches"

Really? Can't say I noticed any change in jab speed apart from when stamina is low.


"Boxing (I'm no expert!) is about varying the speed of your attacks as well as the type... if you throw the same speed jab at an opponent all the time, he's gonna work you out pretty quickly and pick you off."

Well... kind of. You'd use weaker jabs for a number of reasons other than damage. As a range finder, as a visual distraction so you can bring a hook in from a blind spot, to tie up your opponents hands in blocking, and as a stopping technique to stall an attacker. You may vary the power of the jab to conserve energy, but if you intend to strike with it you'll generally throw it fast because there will be a window of opportunity and a blocked punch is wasted energy.

The thing is, most times when you jab you leave your ribs exposed. If you throw lazy jabs you'll get your ribs busted in pretty short order.


"That said, aren't the 360 buttons analogue anyway? I know the old xbox ones are."

Old controller yes, new ones I'm not sure. Can't say I can recall ever using them in an analogue fashion.

I hope that they keep the buttons off, as it just encourages button mashing and general cheapness. The sticks are the way to go :)

I use sticks myself...didnt know about the buttons :)

I think both options should be give...but when online you should be able to set the match up as force buttons or sticks... everyone is happy then

"it just encourages button mashing and general cheapness"

No, it does not. FN has always been about the tactics of the fight, not the controls.

I can wiggle the analog stick wildly around and still land punches. That's as 'button mash' as mashing the buttons.


"when online you should be able to set the match up as force buttons or sticks"

This is the correct solution.


Edit: According to the EA forums, they are looking at implementing a patch for button controls already due to the enormous amounts of 'no buttons no sale' posts.

Ive just had a couple games of FNR4 in Fight Now mode and I'm not really happy with it. Does anybody else think the gameplay lacks (pun somewhat intended) punch? I mean... the boxers are swinging their fists but there is little feeling of impact even when a counter or haymaker lands. Also the punches seem quite slow and robotic.

I've been playing the demo for weeks on end now. I agree that the buttons are easier but I do prefer the sticks. There's just that extra degree of skill needed. If you can't use the sticks, that's not a fault on the game but your ability to use the pad (I've only ever used it with a DS. I'm not sure if the 360 pad is any easier or harder for the stick control). However, I do agree they should give you the option to use the buttons if you prefer.
I'll be a bit down if they apply the patch for buttons as it'll force me to use them online for a fair fight. That said, perhaps as a challenge for myself I'll just use sticks against people using buttons. Maybe they can have fight options for sticks or buttons only?
Regardless of what they do, this a definite purchase for me.

P.S. If they've rated the game down for not having button control, will they put the score up if a patch is released? I'm not fussed, just curious.

I prefer Round 3.

No buttons. No buy.

@el bandito

"Boxing (I'm no expert!) is about varying the speed of your attacks as well as the type... if you throw the same speed jab at an opponent all the time, he's gonna work you out pretty quickly and pick you off."

I'm going to go all pedantic on your sorry ass here :) (and it is pedantic because it comes down to clearly defining when the act of throwing a punch actually begins).


I don't think you should ever look to outwit an opponent by throwing a punch slower than he/she expected. Specifically you wouldn't start to launch the punch and have the opponent block too early because your arm was moving slowly. The reason you would not want to do this is that to purposely retard the movement of your arm can only result in a reduced force being applied to your opponent when the punch lands.

Whenever you throw a punch, you should aim for the peak movement speed to occur at the point of impact (start moving the lower muscles first, like the hips and back as farticusmaximus suggests, then moving the quicker musicles of the arm as the punch gains momentum, finally straightening the wrist and "snapping" every muscle to the limit of its movement as the blow lands). In other words, every punch should be "the best it can be".

What you may wish to do (which is I think what you are saying) is trick the opponent into thinking that the punch will be thrown earlier than it in fact will be. Then when the punch is in fact thrown, it can be thrown at full speed because the trick has already been delivered.

The feint that is common in boxing is a variant of this. The boxer doesn't degrade the actual intended blow for the sake of trickery. Instead they throw a fake punch (into which little effort is invested) which then allows them to commit full and proper force to the ACTUAL punch that is intended to land.

/pedant hat off

/waits for even bigger pedant to find the holes :)

The difficulty should be your actual opponent, not your controller.

I didn't even know that you could use face buttons with FNR3. And at 1st I found it quite awkward, then I understood it (I think), it's a much more "physical" experience with sticks.

"The difficulty should be your actual opponent, not your controller."

I agree in principle, but how this is actually turned into a game is where all the complex stuff happens.

We could reduce this game to a simple reaction test (when your opponent moves, press A to punch him), this removing the control barrier. Each subsequent opponent could move faster, hence the challenge would increase accordingly. But it wouldn't be much like boxing.

I'm playing devil's advocate of course. And I often go on about the control system being the barrier between player and game, rather than being the game itself. But perhaps a control system that is a little tougher to get into can actually result in a more intuitive experience in the end.


From playing the demo, I actually found this control system tougher to get to grips with than FN3/2 AND I wasn't sure the value of the end result was actually being increased as a result.

"i think it will intimadate people away from the site and will EG be liable if a sensitive commenter commits or tries to commit suicide after they are contiually left -20 for no good reason"

that is a pretty strong assumption mate. the reason you get downgraded is because people don't necessarily agree with what you're saying.

i would hazard a guess that some of the insults that can fly around on here (in the absence of a grading system) would provide more justification for the acts you describe. If you are not sufficiently thick-skinned to accept that freedom of speech also means freedom for others to respond, then please accept my heartfelt apologies.

that said, if i don't agree with something you say, i will tick the minus box. simple as. that might be "no good reason" to you, but it's all the reason I need.

In terms of FNR4, i'd like the choice of buttons or no buttons EA if you please. Patch it like Gabrielle my good fellows.

Ok, I think the main reason they took buttons out is for the multiplayer balancing, if they add it how will they seperate the button mashers from the more skillfull stick fighters for multiplayer on LIVE and such? ;)

Surely you can see button mashing is easier to exploit, its a natural reaction for some people when they are losing too, it's unfair because buttons are faster and require less accurate input.

I've been playing the demo on both formats, ps3 and xbox and have to say the control system works fine with the sticks.
Yes, they should've given the option to be able to use the buttons as well, maybe a patch could rectify this but for the moment just enjoy the game how its been made.
Cant believe the rating was affected by the exclusion of the buttons - "thats some freddy Kruger sh*t man"

oh yeah, the graphics look just that little bit sharper on ps3!!

@laudy

I try to avoid using karma as a way of saying whether I agree with someone or not.

Reason being is that negative karma results in a post not being viewed, so the only posts I end up seeing are those that support the majority view.

Who the hell wants to be on a discussion boasrd with no discussion? Surely discussion of differing views is what makes it interesting.

I stick nagative karma on posts that are trolling, trying to cause flame wars or are just being generally offensive for the sake of it.

i only used to switch to the buttons for the training anyway. the combo dummy used to be impossible with the sticks with FN3.

and Laudy, is that you me old mucka? that or there are two people with similar names which i just don't buy what so ever.

Could anyone say if it's any better than UFC. I don't really need another fighting game and i thought UFC was pretty good but how does this compare?

I spent all night last night playing FNR4 and found it somewhat a love-hate relationship. I've played FNR3 to death, but this version, beyond not having button control (I've always used sticks) - does have some other changes that I'm not a big fan of...

For example, on round 3, to throw a hay maker, you did a "backswing" on the stick, rather than holding down a modifier button and swinging, I find the button + stick movement really alien, and as I have to think about it now, my opponent always see's it coming and blocks.

To me this is the biggest gripe I have with the game, the career mode is very intelligent, (like the idea of importing other boxers into your "world" - that'll be ace when I put all my mates in)

Also, the training is impossibly difficult. I mean, seriously, I like how they've changed it to be "actual boxing moves" rather than QTE button presses, but still, it's absolutely rock hard. (And that, in turn, makes the boxing harder)

I'm enjoying it though... Just think it'll take me some time to get used to the lack of the backswing...

Laudy has PMT

Laudy has PMT
Potteries Motor Traction ?

looks nice, plays yawntastic

@Kanga & farticus

I hear what you're saying, you guys look like you know your stuff :)

Just basing what I was saying on some sparring I've done with an ex pro... He was tellin me to try and hit him and pointed out that it was easy for him to read me cause there was no variation in the speed of my punching, basically everthing i did was at full speed which left no element of suprise and as a result nothing for him to think about. Like I said, I'm no expert, I'm just repeating some one who know what they're talkin about and passin it off as my own knowledge :)

Prob didn't remember it right either...

Anyhoo, didn't get chance to go and get it today, hopefully will tomorrow

I am looking forward to any dlc that will appear for this game, new roosters etc.
Hope they include fighters like prince naseem and amir khan...

"looks nice, plays yawntastic "

Pretty much what I gathered from my 2 hours with it, that and boxers can take more blows to the head than...well, something that can take a lot of blows straight to the head. UFC Undisputed is much more realistic and considering a lot of the posts here are based on real life fighting experience I'm suprised a lot more people hadn't picked on that, the EG community must be hard as nails.

I totally disagree with the you can only do one speed with the sticks, they are awkward but if you consider that the end point of the punch is as full extension the closer that you are to the full extension the shorter the punch and the faster it is.
Secondly the punching speed does depend on initiative and where you are standing. The only problem I have with this is it is very difficult to lean and move? Also it is wrong that you always punch at full speed because the strategy of combat is very much about initiative but the technique involve defines the time and range of the move, and any hooking punch is slower than a jab, this does not make them irrelevant. The cross punches and uppercuts are slow but very powerful to guard against if used properly. Very impressed at farticusmaximus, although taekwondo is for girls?)
Everyone knows Subbuteo is where it is at, it is all about range, speed and accuracy.

It's the best bloody boxing game out there!...Has the best control system- if you can bother to practice a little, the best graphics and sound for a sports game, and you need to use strategy is in the ring, online matches etc etc...and we still complain!...The only thing i'm disappointed is with that's there no ref in the ring - Why!

we all have to agree. when it comes to sporting video games such as football, tennis boxing etc it will never be realistic like the real thing - its a videogame...if you want to play a video game that resembles the real thing it just isnt going to happen period, best thing for this is to actually PLAY the REAL thing rather then sitting on your ass and playing with a joypad.
I really cant see a game out there that everyone and I mean everyone is happy to say ' yes, this game is perfect in all ways'
Its human nature for us to complain about something, just enjoy the game and if you dont like it, go out and play the sport for real!!

I'm glad they took out the button controls. It made it way too easy for noobs to pull off combos in FNR3.

The people whining about the button controls being gone are the noobs in question. Oh noez now I have to actually learn how to play! Good on ya EA, you'll sell enough copies without catering to casual goofs.

The reason they don't give you the option to use face buttons as well is because it makes it unbalanced.

Whats the point in mastering stick controls, which are obviously harder to use, when you can get online and get punked by some douchebag just spamming the buttons with his index and middle finger?

If you can't adapt, too bad. Don't buy the game, your business won't be missed.

Why did EA have buttons and sticks in FN3 then remove the buttons in FN4? Maybe in FN3 they knew that the sticks would be disliked by many players and it was deemed a bit experimental and therefore financially risky, so they implemented both control systems. Then having seen that sticks were a success in FN3 they played the risky card and decided to remove the buttons from FN4. However, the many players congratulating them on innovative stick controls had made them overlook the quiet many who were also happy to use buttons AND HAD A CHOICE. Now thet have taken the risky move of removing the buttons, and this risk will equate to financial penalties when they lose sales. They are making games for gamers and seem to have lost sight of this. If they make a control system we're not happy with then we won't buy the game. They're in this for profit so they should now listen to the mass complaints and add the buttons.

"I'm glad they took out the button controls. It made it way too easy for noobs to pull off combos in FNR3. The people whining about the button controls being gone are the noobs in question. Oh noez now I have to actually learn how to play! Good on ya EA, you'll sell enough copies without catering to casual goofs."

God I'm tired of the childlike saddos like this one. Kinda makes me glad EA ruined FN for me and I won't be playing them on FN4. Are all people who use the sticks in FN so childish? Seriously it's a control configuration kiddies, if you ask me all the "Ha ha good job I couldn't deal with the button pressers" is a whole lot more noob (and well a little bit pathetic really)..

I honestly can't see why with this game there is a big group of twats actuallly glad this game has been ruined for so many (and being quite insulting about it like twatboy above). I guess playing with the sticks make them boys feel all manly and stuff.

Sorry for the rant but these guys are really annoying when one of your favourite games this gen is ruined!

I have only had a few hours, maybe three, on FNR4, and when I make deliberate actions I always pull off the punch I want. From there it is just a matter of muscle training. Kind of like, oh I don't know, a videogame. Thumbs up from me.

bugged to fuck and back, going back to asda tomorrow for a refund as it is defective

Try playing legacy only to lose it all due to a bug that prevents you from advancing because you accepted a fight invitation when you already had a match booked. That and the game freezes, graphic glitches and a camera that gives you motion sickness and a crick in your neck.

Worst buy of 2009.

"it's bewildering to see one of the base fundamentals taken out altogether for no apparent reason"

Rubbish, I'm pleased they've removed the option to use buttons. This game was designed to be played usng total control and this is where the game shines. It's also going to make online games better instead of coming against some idiot who's a button basher. The total control takes some getting used to, but it's well worth sticking with.

Well done EA :)

I hope they dont stick this TPC in their MMA game next year. "Total Punch AND KICK control! The biggest mess of a control scheme you've ever seen!"

Hopefully EA have plans to give this franchise the Wii Motion Plus treatment so we can get down to basics. The demo put me off tbh, too fast and random to take it seriously as a boxing sim.

In demo, I too got motion sickness from the camera. The lateral movement around the ring seems worse too (towards the opponent is ok).

I still want to be able to do my 'low blow right, punch to the back of the head left' combo. It's all about the fouls.

Having got the game and played for a while, Fight Night Round 4 is a different experience from 3.

FNR3 is a slug-fest. It's the game you get when you get some mates round and you want to swig on a few drinks and bash each other's brains in. It's still a great title, made all the more remarkable by the fact that it's a launch titile.

FNR4 is more tuned in to the boxing element; the fact that people can't (and don't) just keep punching each other until one person falls. There are a great deal of tactics involved now. In order to fulfil the tangibility between the player(s) and the on-screen characters, EA have chosen to have sticks only - possibly because they felt they need to set the stall out; to show that the game has moved on.

Due to the counter-punching from dodges and blocks, punching through blocks, the role of stamina and tactical punching (such as inside and outside fighting) an experienced fighter ought to be able to let the button-mashers punch themselves out and then move in later. Don't get dragged into fighting their fight. Pick your time.

I wasn't sure if I liked FNR4 on the first few plays. After a couple more games, I realised that it's almost a wholey different game from its predecessor. It won't be for everyone. Some of the FNR3 fans don't like FNR4 because it's not all about the big hits. Some of the people who didn't like FNR3 may like FNR4 because it's not all about the big hits.

Credit to EA for moving the franchise on.