Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli Comments by Dan Whitehead

First!

duff.

Not bad, I wasn't too sure on this after the preview but I think I will pick this up. I loved the hard as nails drive of F355 so I think I'll like this.

As usual, Eurogamer doesn't get racing sims at all.
Not every racing game needs to be a Burnout clone, you know?

ahh, 355. the sweet nightmare. (no pun intended)
also blessed with a criminally bad soundtrack.
but all that hurt somehow added up to a very serious experience, brilliant.

About right I guess - I love it. but I like my racing games to be technical. I'd quibble with the definition of dry though as I find the likes of Grid and Dirt to be a bit soul-less and "dry" personally. I'd also be careful not to confuse the words "fun" and "easy". For me fun is right here in this game, but it's certainly not going to be fun for everyone.

If GRiD is a Lambrusco then this is a Shiraz. all depends on yer taste.

Would be nice if they patch the multiplayer soon tho.

I remember Total Driving on the PS1, that kept me playing for weeks as it was soooooooooo addictive.

I'm still undecided on whether to buy this game or not. I loved the DC version of Ferrari F355 Challenge but this game doesn't sound like it's its spiritual successor and it doesn't look too impressive technically in the videos I've seen. In fact, EG make the game sound a bit dull. While I did enjoy Forza 2 and GT5 Prologue for a while they did become ultimately become tedious, something that was made clear to me when GRID came out... now that game is EXCITING. Shame there's no demo, I'm sure that would tell me all I need to know.

Had it been £30 or less then I'd have picked it up by now as Edge gave it a 7 too and IGN 83% but at £40 it's too much to risk on a game that might be boring to play.

@ illusiondance

I know what you mean about bad soundtrack on F355, worst credit music ever! :)

Frankly, a 7 is better than I was expecting of this.

What all is it out on, surely not just PS3?

@mentalist: Ferrari Challenge is a "timed PS3 exclusive", for now, later on there will be a PS2 and DS + WII version, no xbox360 version or psp versions has been announced. Also there has allready been announced DLC for the PS3 version aswell. .. @ALL , also where eurogamer failed is that this game is something inbetween Grid and GT5p , its a half simulator half arcade game and to most thats exactly what they want although i guess the reviewer really couldnt get the hang of it and well thats understandable since well its a halfbreed of an game.

listen if u aint sure trust me its a grt game and the ai is spot on first few races easy after that it ramps up ,it aint as graphically acomplished as gt5 or grid but what is at the moment ,but i tell u 1 thing its got better graphics than forza and the handling just as realisitic but just not the variety of cars .iplay grid some time 20mins at a time maybe a bit more i sunk 4 hrs into ferrari its that good should be 8 out of 10

I'm not a member of the cult of Ferrari, so while I enjoy technical racing games I think I'll stick to Forza with the assists off. There's a stack of Ferraris in that game, anyway.

Edit: Actually, turns out I couldn't play it even if I wanted to, as I don't have a PS3 and have no real desire to buy new games for my PS2. This must be the first multiplatform game ever to be released on everything except the Xbox 360.

taoks if u take off all the assits its nowhere near an arcade sim mix its a pure sim

Ahhh Total Drivin' is still one of the most fun (and underrated) driving games I have ever played...

I have had the game for under a weak and i cant help but think a 7 is a little high, i play a lot of PC sims (GT legend's and the like) and the handling model in Ferrari challenge has nothing on them.

The audio imho is totally woeful, and the AI is a shambles - its gone straight on eBay.

i cant believe u dont like the handling on it its grt gt legends was a good game i agree but i really liked ferrai

well the auction has a week to run - maybe it will win me over in that week ;)

I agree, once again EG just miss the point of more serious sims completely.

"The handling model is robust and convincing, but also ferociously tough and unforgiving."

If you like sim racing, distinct from the arcade stuff, that is a real positive rather than a negative. Racing sims should be hard and should demand you get the racing line, the braking and whatnot absolutely right. That IS the game in a sim and as long as the handling model is solid, the tracks are faithful and the sound is good then it's good to go.

I'll be buying it, turning the assists off, and loving every second I bet.

Someone get that first screenshot some AA.

here come the 360 fan boys

If you like sim racing, distinct from the arcade stuff, that is a real positive rather than a negative.

I didn't say the handling was a negative point, but it's still something that most players will want to know about.

It's great fun, but I think Dan made the right call by saying that it feels a little soulless. Ferrari's a badge with a lot of passion and history behind it, and I think the developers kind of relied on that to fuel us rather than pumping in more atmosphere.

That said, I love the way the racing feels. I'm one of the GTR 2 crew (as in, I play it) and for a console racer it comes really close to capturing the simulation feel I enjoy. Not wired up my G25 to it yet, but will soon. Not 100% sold on the AI yet, but with the aids turned off it's a driving title you've really got to concentrate for. Was doing a race at Monza and thought I had things licked as I was leading and putting in some great times, but I then missed my braking point for the first turn by a few metres and ended up skidding down the escape road. Good stuff.

I wouldn't say it's a 100% nailed-on simulation, but it's close enough to tickle my fancy.

Can anyone comment on whether its supports the Logitech G25?

Cheers

I do wish reviewers would indicate whether or not they played a driving game with a joypad or a wheel. Racing game fans will be using their wheel and so if a reviewers opinion is based on his playing with a joypad I can choose to ignore any opinions he has on that basis.

You could review Guitar Hero after playing it with a joypad because it's possible to play it that way. But of course you wouldn't.

You could review racing games after playing it with a joypad because it's possible to play it that way. But of course you shouldn't.

Eurogamer take note.

So is this as close as getting GTR2 on a console as it gets? Sounds good to me.

If it's more dry or souless than the Gran Turismo series I will eat my hat...nothing comes close.

Why are 30fps refresh rates acceptable in 2008 when competent developers were able to hit 60fps more than ten years ago? Is this the "next-gen"?

(This isn't just aimed at Ferrari Challenge, of course...)

I have written enough about how good this game is in the Forum Threads.... :-) I don't know if I can be arsed to go over it again. Oh Ok I will...

I will take issue with the comments about... "those who like their racing dry and technical" & "The approach is hardcore simulation"

I would strongly disagree with these comments. I have put in a good 10+ hours in on this game a not once has it felt dry or technical.
I am around half way through the Challenge mode and only now have I felt the need to mess around with the Balance, Ride hight, camber adjust and the other "Technical" options available to improve my lap times to get me that Pole in qualifying.
You really can pick it up and play it. If the car does not feel right then you can hit the start button and change the Traction Control, Stability Control & ABS mid race.

I also mentioned in the Thread that its smack bang in between GT5P & GRiD... It neither solely a SIM or an ARCADE racer I think I can cater for people looking for both.

@Banksy - The Ferrari Challenge developers have aimed for 1080p for the game so that's why it only runs at 30 fps not 60 fps. Eutechnyx aren't a big developer like Polyphony Digital so they probably don't have the time or expertise to get it running at 60 fps.

Usually 60 fps non-arcade racing games tend to look a little bland in my experience, GT5 Prologue aside, just take a look at Forza Motorsport 2 for example? Personally I'd rather have a nice-looking racing game running at 30 fps with some motion-blurring to aid the sensation of speed and as such games like the recent SEGA Rally, PGR 4 and GRID are my favourite racing games. In fact, all those games arguably give a better sensation of speed than either GT5P or Forza 2 thus proving that a 60 fps isn't a necessity so long the sense of speed is fine and the game's controls are responsive. The trouble with aiming for 60 fps is that you have to sacrifice detail to get it, especially if you want a consistent framerate as any slowdown is more apparent in these games than 30 fps ones.

I'd give it a 5, too much of a one dimensional, one trick pony.

Overstaurated with too many sims and not enough arcade racers.

"That's not going to happen here, where shunts and collisions feel torn between gamer expectation and licensor disapproval."

The whole argument of ommitting damage to appease manufacturers is absurd, and no one should ever speculate that this is the reason a game design goes with limited (or no) damage modeling. No one is trying to sell race cars on the premise that they can be smashed into one another without scratches/ dents/ loss of performance. It's just an easy way to justify having avoided a very complex technical challenge. It was a stretch when Sony played this card re GT, and it's best not to deal the same card to any one else.

"I do wish reviewers would indicate whether or not they played a driving game with a joypad or a wheel."

Seriously. Why are there 2+ page reviews of racing games and not so much as a sentence discussing whether wheels are supported, how the force feedback feels, etc. It's no secret the peripherals are out there, and any reader savvy enough to distinguish between a sim and an arcade racer would want to know.

"In fact, all those games arguably give a better sensation of speed than either GT5P or Forza 2 thus proving that a 60 fps isn't a necessity"

I loved Forza and Forza 2, but I would have to agree with you - sensation of speed was not the strong suit. Only in mid to powerful cars - and only from the bumper cam - did you ever get a sense that you were "racing".

@darc - did you ever get a sense that you were "racing"

Not really sure what you mean by this but if you mean the sense of speed then, no, most of the time the number on the speedometer and the sense of speed did not correlate even when racing a top-of-the-range Ferrari! To be honest, it's this lack of a sense of speed that makes Forza 2 and GT5 Prologue feel ultimately dull and souless IMO but maybe that's because I've been spoilt by the exaggerated speeds in semi-arcade/sim racing games like GRID and PGR 4. Whatever, I've yet to play a simulation on a console that gives a convincing sense of speed other than the F1 games (but then you could argue that comes from them being faster cars anyway!).

How does it play with the Dual Pap controller? Are the triggers as ridiculously on/off as GT5 (where they provide full acceleration before half of their travel) or are they making full use of the admittedly limited travel in this game?

Darren - Exactly what I meant, yes. It took me a while to "recalibrate" my expectations to suit Forza's sluggishness, and later it was refreshing to play PGR4 (and then DiRT... and then GRID) and sense that blast of speed. The funny thing about Forza though - and maybe it's just because I played it for so long - is the slower speed seemed to give me a deeper appreciation for the physics engine, whereas the faster titles feel more like a simplified arcade thrill. (This is especially true of DiRT, where the cars not only seem to accelerate much faster in a given weight/power class, but also seem to stop much too easily. GRID looks to have a better balance going in this regard, but I haven't really tucked into that one yet - just a bit of the demo.)

For me, games like Forza have the speed correct (though they do feel a bit odd and sluggish on anything but bumper cam, but I always play on bumper cam). On the other hand, games like GRID and to an extent, PGR4 seem like they are on fast forward, almost tron like, when played on bumper cam. PGR4's fault was that they removed the higher up of the two bumper cams.

Controls are pressure sensitive on dual shock.

@zerolight and darc - I play racing games from the external camera (PGR4 from the dashboard view though) so my perception of speed comes from that. Ideally a game should give a convincing impression of speed no matter which camera you use and this is true of SEGA Rally, PGR 4 and GRID for me.

By the way, I went into GAME at lunchtime and was on the verge of buying Ferrari Challenge when I was told it wasn't actually on sale. Apparently they received an email on Monday telling them to stop selling until this Friday (11th) as that is its official release date. Is this true? I thought people who pre-ordered the game got it last week?

Wow, this reviewer doesn't really "get" racing simulations, does he?

Also, what's with the "Bizzare Creations and Polyphonal Digial" reference. EVERYONE knows that Turn 10 has the best physics model.

Sheesh.

All this reminds me - supposedly Simbin are still really hopeful of getting a version of GTR 2 out on the 360 sometime soon. Fingers crossed, eh?

"Can anyone comment on whether its supports the Logitech G25?"

It does. I just got my Wheelstand Pro in the mail today, so I've finally been able to hook up my otherwise dust gathering G25 in front of the TV (I originally bought it for PC racing sims back in 2006).
Reports say that the clutch doesn't work (I haven't tried it myself), despite being clearly labelled in the controller screen - but I'm assuming this might be fixed in a patch, along with various other issues.
I'm hoping there'll be a force feedback setting as well, as I think it's a tad too strong - and that's probably putting it mildly.

Anyway, I absolutely love this game. It's really just what I had been hoping to eventually see on the consoles (seeing as I've sort of dropped PC gaming, for the time being at least) - a proper sim with race cars and race tracks. A bit more than just Ferraris would have been welcome, but overall this really does seem like a game that could have me hotlapping around Spa and Monza for hours, as I did in the past in PC sims like GTR2 and RACE.

Before I got my G25 hooked up today, I was prepared to label the handling model "pseudo sim", but in many areas I really think it's fair to classify this as a proper sim. Particularly weight transfer and balance are modelled extremely well - much better than in GT5P - and offsetting the balance of the car by not being completely off the brake when you go into a corner, or downshifting at the wrong time, can be a pretty scary experience with a force feedback wheel.
I've also unlocked the Ferrari 355 - and that one will show you that the handling model in this game is certainly no stranger either to things like lift-off oversteer and a disturbingly nervous rear end during braking.

With regards to the AI, that's one point where I'm not entirely convinced I agree with the EG reviewer. Granted, even though I've loved racing sims for years, I've never been a fast driver, but in any case, I just spent the two hours in the Challenge series getting my ass thoroughly kicked by most of the AI drivers :).
Winning the first few races yesterday (with a gamepad, and all aids turned off) was a walk in the park, but it really does look like the AI is learning very quickly, and considering how much faster they are than me during qualifying, I usually end up starting at or very near the back of the field in the first of the two races in an event.
But as I indicated, I probably just suck :p - sounds like the AI ran into its limits with the EG reviewer.

30fps = PHAIL

Fine for arcadey games, but not for anything aimed at the sim crowd.

"30fps = PHAIL

Fine for arcadey games, but not for anything aimed at the sim crowd."

If that's going to be your reason for not getting this game, you're really being a bit silly :). One of the reported issues with the game is some slight stuttering in some corners, but other than that my eyes pretty much perceive it as smooth as silk.
Ever played GTR2 on a mediocre PC, starting at the back of a 60 car grid at Spa? It's likely to start off as a borderline slideshow, but I'm sure I'm not the only sim racing fan who's let that stop him :).

If anything I would be inclined to say that arcade racers rather than sims would often be more in need of a higher framerate, as they tend to pull all the stops to give a sense of unrealisticly high speeds. Although I guess they can often cover it up with excessive blur and bloom.

Good game with great handling.
The AI cars are far too slow though which ruins single-player somewhat.
If they fix online that'll lessen the blow though.

I expected Euro*360*Gamer to give it less.

7 is decent.

It sounds just like Ferrari Challenge 355, one of my favourite racing games ever!
I hope they'll make a 360 version of this game.

How many cars are on the track at the same time and how many tracks are there?

15 cars per race (16 if including yourself), not sure how many you can unlock/buy, There's also cars being added through DLC too.

Dunno about track's, more are added via DLC.

Thanks for the answer. 16 is a lot and the game looks beautiful in shots.
I hope any of you will still be playing if I buy a PS3 in a years time :D

@Darran

There's no way a racer can do a convincing feeling of speed from both chase cam and bumper cam. The closer you get to the ground, the faster it feels. That's just a fact of life. An ariel shot of F1 always seems slower than the drivers helmet cam. A chase cam in a game always feels slower than a bumper cam for the same reasons.

You're GRID example is a perfect case in point. Bumper cam is much faster feeling than chase cam. However because they want to make it feel fast in chase cam, they've exaggerated the speed of the cars. The result is that chase cam has a decent sense of speed, but bumper cam and even the cockpit cam, feel way too fast. It feels so wrong in fact that I couldn't enjoy the game. Games like PGR4, Forza, GT5P, etc all feel about right in terms of speed from the bumper cam, and too slow from chase cam, but there's no way around that. PGR4's only failing was to make the bumper cam too low such that it affected your vision.

My preference is usually bumper cam, because it generally gives you the most realistic field of view. You never drive your car attached to a giant kite hovering behind it in the real world, and similarly your field of view when driving doesn't take in the entire car interior that most games show, when you're actually focusing on the road ahead. F355 Challenge got the perspective about as good as it gets, with perhaps GT5P coming a close second there. PGR3 and 4 were almost there, but they have too much car in focus that would otherwise be in the perifery.

@zerolight- for a sim, the "best" view is a cockpit one because, while you aren't attached to a kite hanging from the rear of the car you also don't drive with your head mounted onto the front bumper. That view should offer the most realistic sense of speed since it's, well, most realistic.

"@zerolight- for a sim, the "best" view is a cockpit one because, while you aren't attached to a kite hanging from the rear of the car you also don't drive with your head mounted onto the front bumper. That view should offer the most realistic sense of speed since it's, well, most realistic."

And another reason to go with cockpit view in Ferrari Challenge is that the engine sounds are rather muffled in all other views, including hood and bumber cams.

It depends on how the cockpit is modelled. Most show so much dashboard that you might as well be in the back seat driving. The optimum position would be a windscreen cam with none of the clutter of the dashboard which you aren't looking at when focussing on the road, but devs always get that wrong too, insisting on showing you the bonnet of your car, despite the fact you can't see this in the majority of cars you drive. Therefore, the bumper cam comes closest to the reality. Live For Speed nails it. Their bumper cam is actually a drivers view point with an invisible car. So the camera is in the correct position, and all the stuff that isn't in focus when you're driving, only periferl, is removed.

Dreamcast F355 did it right.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/scr...

Note how little dash is visible. Because when you focus on the road ahead you don't see the dashboard until you flick your eyes toward it. Most cockpit views are so intent on showing how accurate their interior is that they forget to set the field of view to anything realistic.

GT5P almost gets it.

http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/publ...

Ferrari Challenge PS3 is just a bit too far back from the window. Instead of the dash being in periferal vision, it's just there, always. Letter box style.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/articl...