Fans rage at anti-MadWorld campaign Comments by Robert Purchese

@Dan234

Do you live on Paradise Island? where the floor is made of pillows and birds sing heavenly songs as you pass.

"arguing that "modern and civilised values" should take priority over "killing and maiming people"."

As far as I'm aware freedom of expression is a modern and civilised value and should take precendence over any form of censorship.

It's a shame that somehow the public at large is convinced that games (and other forms of entertainment) actually influence behaviour structurally. This 'obvious truth' has never been proven scientifically and I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in the same garbage bin as the flat world, dualism, creationism and the blank slate theory.

@Dan234

Are you basing your views on Britain on the country as a whole? As I would imagine to know such a thing then your two trips a year must encompass journeying around the whole of the Britain we call Great, talking to it’s various people, and seeing the differences between rural and urban life.

Or are you basing it on the possibility someone shouted at you when they were drunk, got mugged on the tube, or read far too many of the red tops for your own good?

So your conclusions about violent Britain are based on personal observation? And what are you trying to say, that videogames are responsible?

No, I said that videogames aren't responsible because the same games are available in other, less violent, countries. Although they may be given higher ratings and more parents may decide not to let their children play those games.

As for the level of violence in Britain and the rest of Europe, I found it difficult to find any statistics on the kind of violence we are talking about so I used personal observation.

Do you live on Paradise Island? where the floor is made of pillows and birds sing heavenly songs as you pass.

France and Spain.

Or are you basing it on the possibility someone shouted at you when they were drunk, got mugged on the tube, or read far too many of the red tops for your own good?

Although I've spent nearly 10 years abroad, I'm still British, old chap. I've lived oop north and dahn sarf and I still have a fair idea of what Britain is like apart from the top 40 and who's in Big Brother, but it only hits you (if I can use that phrase) when you go back and see it as it's a contrast from the rest of the year.

I hope they eat a plasma grenade.

"Going by the latest figures for murders per capita, for example, the UK is below Canada, South Korea, United States, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden and many other countries.

In fact, looking at it like that actually works in our favour. The less developed countries where they are less likely to have access to games have a huge problem with violence. That's because of other social, political and economic issues. Games have absolutely nothing to do with it. "

At the risk of making a tool out of myself in front of the whole internet (not the first time!);
I don't understand that comment, looking at recent GDP per capita for the countries you listed only Finland and South Korea come below the UK, so surely US, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden are more develped than the UK and going with your argument therefore more likely to have access to Games? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Fair enough then, I have also lived both up north and down south, and I love them both. The violent thing is only in the cities really though, and once you have crumbling infrastructures with massive increases in population then that’s always going to happen. Though I myself have not been privy to much of it, I do tend to think the tabloids make a much bigger deal of it than needed as they like the grabbing headlines.

I don't buy it. It's all very well to talk about "society" as a whole: you can chat about that forever without really getting anywhere. But is anyone here saying that if they didn't play violent games they'd be more likely to act violently towards other people?

Whatever you think of Mediawatch, it's understandable that people see games which are based around violence and are put off. There has to be a better response than just "TV and film are as bad" or "censorship is bad". Why do we enjoy these things so much?

You live in France AND Spain?

You fat bastard.

I'm an obesity victim. They should ban hamburgers.

I'd quite like Mediawatch to go forth and multiply.

"At the risk of making a tool out of myself in front of the whole internet (not the first time!);
I don't understand that comment, looking at recent GDP per capita for the countries you listed only Finland and South Korea come below the UK, so surely US, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden are more develped than the UK and going with your argument therefore more likely to have access to Games? Correct me if I'm wrong."

All the countries listed have a higher murder rate per capita than the UK.

I don't buy it. It's all very well to talk about "society" as a whole: you can chat about that forever without really getting anywhere. But is anyone here saying that if they didn't play violent games they'd be more likely to act violently towards other people?

My pet theory is it's more about not being able to relate to strangers very well instead of acting out a diet of media-fed violence. In Britain people can be either blanked out (e.g. train or tube) or treated incredibly politely. When neither of those approaches works then that's where the problems start. Before anyone asks, I don't have any links.

Whatever you think of Mediawatch, it's understandable that people see games which are based around violence and are put off. There has to be a better response than just "TV and film are as bad" or "censorship is bad". Why do we enjoy these things so much?

Possibly because people want to ban or regulate them so they're seen as naughty.

"to know what right we had to impose our 'narrow minded bigotry' on them and stopping them playing an 'adult' game of their choice,""

Wouldn't mind knowing that myself tbh.

Also, i'd just like to say what a bunch of fools the people who are trying to argue that videogames make you violent are. The problem with British society today is too much interference with kids from the government and not enough from parents. This country has gone down the toilet because kids have too many rights, and you basically aren't allowed to do anything to discipline them. Then, by the time they're 16, they feel like stabbing someone, so they just go and do it. But what did people expect when you have neds brining up new neds, and powerless parents/teachers?

Which brings me to the next thing that's wrong with Britain: There aren't enough prisons. It's about time the government accepted that the current capacity is not enough, rather than just refusing to acknowledge that we do have more scum in this country than we can currently keep locked up. And what does this attitude lead to? People who have killed others getting short sentences because they don't want them taking up space too long. So then you have no real deterrent.

If you stab someone, shoot someone or hurt someone badly, you were going to do it whether you played a violent game or not. I have been playing violent games for over 15 years and i have never ONCE been involved with the police, and i've been in about 2 fights in my life, both of which happened at school.

You know why 15 years of useage of violent games hasn't made me more violent? Well, and you're gonna be really shocked here, it's because A)My parents actually raised me properly and taught me morals and the difference between right and wrong and B)I'm not a nutter in the first place.

Videogames are basically the scapegoat for societies problems at the moment, hopefully when the next thing comes along, we'll get a rest.

" There has to be a better response than just "TV and film are as bad" or "censorship is bad"."

Can't believe someone putting those two 'arguments' in the same sentence as equals!

In my view censorship never leads to anything because, like so many popular measures, it does nothing about the problem but only targets the symptom.

"Why do we enjoy these things so much?"

If you're referring to violence: because it's in our nature (a bit more in guys than in gals). Addressing our needs for violence via games and media has the benefit that it doesn't hurt anybody. Despite popular wisdom, we're not more aggresive in this day and age of violent media. In the news in general there's more focus on violent crimes though, because it sells (it addresses our need for thrills). That gives the distorted picture that we live in a more violent world.

I'm not sure why we're taking for granted that violence is part of our nature. If it is part of our nature than you have your answer as to why society is violent so we might as well stop the thread here.

On the other hand children can be taught that violence is not acceptable, and that is probably where the problem is (that they're not being taught this).

It still amazes me that some people do not understand that what they consider offensive or unacceptable is an entirely subjective matter, and that forcing it on other people, who have different but equally valid views, does not make any sense.

Are their brains just plain defective or something? I can't think of any other explanation, because this isn't rocket science, it should be common sense.

Reminds me of the facebook groups trying to get other facebook groups banned. Funniest one so far: The multitude of anti Dead Baby Joke groups.

'France and Spain'

If we had no rules and plenty of riots, where would we be? France.

And if we run the risk of getting blown up by the ETA and lived with some of the biggest racists in Europe? Spain.

Not the best examples.

And what about towns and cities in Europe dreading the day when a British football team comes to visit?

Don't think we're going to get very far like this, doesn't really add much to the debate does it?

"I'm not sure why we're taking for granted that violence is part of our nature. If it is part of our nature than you have your answer as to why society is violent so we might as well stop the thread here."

Society isn't violent but there is violence in society, because violence is a part of human nature. That doesn't mean that we all have to act or do act violent most of the time. In fact, when compared to other mammals, our 'murder' rates aren't that high (though we do compensate of course with the occasional war). But there is a violent instinct within us that can be triggered now and then. What we need to do is remove those triggers as much as possible but complete removal is futile of course.

"On the other hand children can be taught that violence is not acceptable, and that is probably where the problem is (that they're not being taught this)."

Children needn't necessarily be taught that violence is not acceptable (though it doesn't hurt). Sane persons are able to figure that out on their own (as is the case for other moral rules). Like I said, violence isn't more of a problem now than it ever was (probably less even in the Western world) though the media do their best to convince us otherwise. When we do see young males (almost always young males, for biological reasons) commit violent acts in Western society, in most cases they feel (wether rightly or wrongly) duped by/no part of society and therefore feel less bound by its rules (as soon as people form 'us' and 'them' groups mentally, the barrier for violent acts drops significantly). And of course there are the psychopaths who are beyond all cure. Fortunately, their numbers are small.

I have to agree that people who send angry and abusive emails to mediawatch about how games don't make them angry are kind of getting what they ask for.

That said, this...

"DON'T BUY THE GAME FOR CHILDREN IT HAS A MASSIVE 18 STICKER ON IT"

is also true.


I think what we can learn is that if you have a complaint to make, making it with the voice of an utter tosser doesn't help you one bit. A little bit of self control might actually get people further.

I don't for a second think that violent games make normal people violent either, but the difference is that if someone showed me conclusive proof that it DID... I would accept it.

A lot of gamers don't really give a rats ass about proper debate, or have any sense of give and take, if they think that someone is messing with their precious gaming. So it shouldn't surprise anyone to find that people who refuse to live in the real world are not taken seriously and don't have their opinions listened to.

Frankly it makes me feel miserable to think that illiterate, sweary, angry, illinformed, closed minded fanboys are in any way acting as ambassadors for my hobby and livelyhood.

@Les

Good post.

>They want to protect kids, and now they have an opinion that most gamers are kids.

After reading forums like this - im convinced they are too..

Especially ones who only buy "adult" games and go on about video games being "kiddy"

Personally I have a sneaky suspicsion that mad world will be poo

Children needn't necessarily be taught that violence is not acceptable (though it doesn't hurt). Sane persons are able to figure that out on their own (as is the case for other moral rules).

As a young child you aren't really able to figure things out for yourself, you need to be taught when you've done something wrong (and right). If you find that bullying works and you are never told otherwise then don't be surprised if this belief carries on through to adulthood.

When we do see young males (almost always young males, for biological reasons) commit violent acts in Western society, in most cases they feel (wether rightly or wrongly) duped by/no part of society and therefore feel less bound by its rules (as soon as people form 'us' and 'them' groups mentally, the barrier for violent acts drops significantly).

As I said in a post above, it's about relating to strangers. If everything is defined by 'us' and 'them' then you've reached the point where you can't relate to strangers.

@smelly

"Personally I have a sneaky suspicsion that mad world will be poo"

Well its on the Wii, so of course it will.

hehehe ;)

Well all this just goes to show............It's a Mad World!!!

Sorry I'll get my coat.

1) Adult sets up Wii for his child who got it for Christmas
2) Switch on Wii.
3) Notice channel called called Parental Control. Click on it out of curiosity.
4) Listen and read a recording, with images, that explains that the rating shown on the front cover is *not* an indication of how old a child needs to be to understand and play a game - so if a child of 7 is playing a 12 rated game, it doesn't mean they're quite clever - but an allusion to the maturity of the content of the game.
5) Across the country, hundreds of parents have both synapses light up in their brains for once.
6) At the end of the playback be offered to turn on parental controls.

No one can complain after that. The problem with parental controls is they're buried in the menus and most people who get the console just don't RTFM. It's sad that you have to legislate for that, but it's sad that a lot of parents aren't clued up enough to realise point 4.

"As a young child you aren't really able to figure things out for yourself, you need to be taught when you've done something wrong (and right). If you find that bullying works and you are never told otherwise then don't be surprised if this belief carries on through to adulthood."

As a young child you're not a very big danger to your surroundings or society, helps too... ;)

But seriously, there isn't much proof that parenting has any impact on the behaviour of children. In fact the evidence tells us that about 50% of how someone turns out is determined by the genes and the other 50% by the non-home environment (basically the peer group). Parental rules might lead to the desired behaviour when the parents are around but as soon as they're not around the effect is gone.

Thankfully most of us are equiped with a working set of tools that tell us what actions are socially acceptable and which not. If we'd had to wait for common sense to properly develop before figuring that out, we wouldn't be around anymore as a species... ;)

Doesn't mean parents should just let their kids behave violent. It's anoying to other people so they should make some effort to control them. Makes them look (and probably feel) better as well.

Complaining about Madworld ruining the "family-fun image" is a WEE bit late, MediaWitchhunt, what with MOH, RE4, Red Sword, No More Heroes... the list goes on, though admittedly it is shorter than for either the 360 or PS3.

Also, what is wrong with a console having both mature and child-friendly games on it? It's like complaining that a store is selling both beer and milk.

Media watchdog

(I dont give a sxxx about them - fxxx em fxxx em all!)

Actually, if this game DID come out on PS3/360, I doubt anyone would care. It all boils down to the fact that Mediawatch have decided for us what image the Wii has.

As a young child you're not a very big danger to your surroundings or society, helps too... ;)

That's why it's better to teach them it isn't acceptable when they're young. If they're older and don't like it they tend to react with a smack in the chops.

But seriously, there isn't much proof that parenting has any impact on the behaviour of children. In fact the evidence tells us that about 50% of how someone turns out is determined by the genes and the other 50% by the non-home environment (basically the peer group). Parental rules might lead to the desired behaviour when the parents are around but as soon as they're not around the effect is gone.

I didn't mention parenting in particular, I said "children can be taught". That includes teaching that violence isn't acceptable at school, because when they're young and they're being taught this at home and school then that's most places covered. (Insert rant about schools here.)

"I didn't mention parenting in particular, I said "children can be taught"."

OK, then we agree more or less. The public-friendly mantra of blame-the-parents might sound nice but there's little substance to it. Like with most problems in society, there are no easy solutions and pretending that folk wisdom is the key might work fine during elections but will have zero result.

I don't think you can expect young adults to suddenly start behaving reasonably if they haven't done that until now because they don't know any better and never have known any better. It is difficult to change their behaviour if they're out of control and that's something more complicated.

But as for children it's relatively simple. I'd rather blame the parents and schools as they're both responsible for bringing up children and when they're young there are few other places they can be. We already know many parents can't be bothered and we already know schools don't have the authority to act or don't do anything because they think they might damage their reputation by admitting that bullying happens.

And this particular debate about the BBFC/Media Watch/PEGI/etc is happening because many parents prefer to have decisions taken for them. There's not much more to it than that.

fuck the kids.