Fallout Retrospective Comments by Keza MacDonald

Never played any of the fallout games but Fallout 3 looks ace. Especially the start when being born and crawling round the bunker as a baby etc haha. Pointless but a nice touch to start the game - showing you grow up etc before your travells

Dammit! Got excited for a mo'! :o

Bought the Fallout collection but still haven't played them.

Well I played the first Fallout for about 10 minutes then I quit when I realised that this was going to take me ages to get into it.

Good feature, though I expected some mention about how the constant in-jokes and pop-culture references robbed Fallout 2 of much of its predecessor's atmosphere.

So can we expect the fallout 3 review tomorrow then?
It's not as good as fallout 2 i'm afraid.

ahh o yeah tomorrow embargoes eh :-)

Nice article.

I would add my name to the Fierce Fan Club, they truly are outstanding master pieces that i do still dabble in to this day. (though I much prefer 1).

Its good that your given an education on the back story, as most people seem to think that Fallout 3 is "ripping" a lot of things off, without realising of course that it was the first to include many many things. (ish)....

Me personally, I'm withholding all judgement on fallout 3 until I have played it. I was recently informed that nearly all of the dark humour and irony is completely missing. That along is enough to put me off. It would be like buying a cat, only its dog called cat.

Fallout pedant mode on:
Shady Sands was rather closer to Vault 13 than Junktown was and as it was between the only two locations that you know of as the Vault Dweller something you bump into fairly quickly.

I started Fallout last week, and it takes up a fair chunk of my non-360 time.

It is certainly well done, I am enjoying it now that I have got past the 'time limit' bit, and am scrambling around trying to figure how to take out super mutants and deathclaws with the gaming equivalent of peashooters.

Hoping the 3rd will also be good.

You could put the review up at 4am GMT you know - daylight saving time is still in effect in the US.

Can you get vista compatible version of the original 2 games, I've been looking but without any luck.

The unofficial Fallout patches are here:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.p...

Works fine on my Vista.

I loved the original Fallout and Fallout 2. I hope number 3 will stay true to form and i hope im not setting myself up to be let down by it. *fingers crossed*

I never got what the little cartoon picture of the kid has to do with Fallout?

Anyone?

try http://www.gog.com for a cheap, vista compatible version of 1 and 2

can't wait... CANNOT WAIT!!!! 4 days.... !!!

10 years is just too long to wait for anything ;)

@viper_h:
It's Pipboy, he is Fallout, sort of.

EDIT: Of course he's Vault Boy, i'm just old.

All you need to do is watch the intro of the original..

PipBoy is actually the device, the chaps real name is "Vault Boy". And he is awesome (hes my xbox live profile photo with his thumb up)

And He is certainly one of the classifying factors of Fallout.

Edit : here is the web address to clarify

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_Boy

Loved the title sequence in Fallout (and Fallout 2 to a lesser degree).

Made me buy a cheap cd of inkspots classics at the time.... Mayyyybeee....

I do hope they have something similar with the new one.

Man I have been looking forward to this for a long time.. i put so many hours into fallout 1 & 2 and more recently morrowind and oblivion so this theoretically this should be a safe bet.
But it is a risky project for bethesda to take on.. i really do hope they manage to capture the soul of the first 2 games and evolve it and bring it to the next generation.. because if they dont then they are going to get so much sh*t.
And if they have raped the game.. well they deserve all the sh*t they'll get. I wont have any sympathy for them if they bollox this up.

neilka,

"You could put the review up at 4am GMT you know - daylight saving time is still in effect in the US. "

Yeah, Kristan just sent me an email pointing that out. My dismal record translating time around the world continues :-) 4am GMT it will be.

In before "Oblivion with Guns"

"Our review of the game goes live tonight at midnight EST, which is 4am GMT on Tuesday morning."

why? thought this is "Euro" Gamer? or is that the time at which the embargo ends? can't be asked to get up at 4? why not 8 or something ;)

+1,000,000 for mentioning Steve Jackson.

A brilliant maker of pen and paper games. Would love to see a Car Wars or Ogre squad-based universe remade into decent videogames.

"But if you can find one person who did play them and talks about them with anything other than near-rabid devotion, it'd be quite a feat."

HELLO!

I brought them both about 5 years ago, abut never really liked them all that much. Same with Planescape. I always felt like I was being given the illusion of choice, when actually there were only extremely limited outcomes - themselves always determined by a single choice at or near the endgame.

Car Wars!

/swoon.

Might even get up 'early' for the Fallout 3 review - I am already crawling out of bed at 5am to reach the expo...

Might just stay awake all night and wait for it I guess.

"It's the writing, stupid"

I hope they've got it right, I deeply wish it so... watching the TGS trailer however gives me a sinking feeling.

I played the first one a couple of years ago and didn't like it much. Killing rats, a combat system where you miss half the time, and it never let me solve problems how I want. There's a pit, I want a rope or shovel to get down, I go to the farm community nearby but there's no way to get either there. Annoying.
Not everyone will like it, you have to approach it with a certain attitude.

I don't believe in Fallout 3. TES3: Morrowind was such a far cry from being playable, that even if its mediocrity will meet the glory of Fallout half-way, an outcome will be average at the best.

Not bad for a retrospective but it will only make sense if EG will have the guts to reflect on the powers (and failures) of the originals compared to Fallout 3 in the review.

I don't think fans of the original have to worry, according to the review in PCGAMER Fallout 3 is "brimming with atmosphere, sense of place, incidental detail, people and creatures that surpass the impact of the originals. I can't imagine anyone who loved those games not loving this."

"I don't think fans of the original have to worry, according to the review in PCGAMER Fallout 3 is "brimming with atmosphere, sense of place, incidental detail, people and creatures that surpass the impact of the originals. I can't imagine anyone who loved those games not loving this.""

The guy who wrote the PCG review has also said he didn't think that much of the originals anyway, so you'll forgive me for worrying anyway.

There is one crucial point mentioned in the article. Strength of fallout and fallout 2 lies in good quality writing. Not pretty graphics supporting non stop pew pew action. Every scrap of information I have about fallout 3, after following its forums since the game was announced, suggests that fallout 3 is direct descendant of oblivion in terms of design philosophy. Pretty graphics, open world, and dismal writing. As a side note, bethesda is not known for hiring good writers anyway, and it seems to me that the best they can muster in terms of story is couple of lines written on discarded burrito paper bag, by one of the coders during thirty minutes of company meeting on new uses of pixel shaders.
I'd also like to mention simple fact that bethesda chose to change *everything* in fallout 3, including appearance of characters and items present in previous fallouts (Mr. Handy is one such example). Although, I have to admit: while it annoyed me at first, after some thought I came to conclusion that it will be much easier to treat fallout 3 as a game that has nothing to do with fallout 1 or 2, other than the name.

As a side note, bethesda is not known for hiring good writers anyway, and it seems to me that the best they can muster in terms of story is couple of lines written on discarded burrito paper bag.

Morrowind has superb writing, especially in terms of depth and lore, and some of the characters are very memorable too. It was nothing like the generic mess of Oblivion's dialogue, if that is what you're basing Bethesda's writing credentials on. The thing about Bethesda is that they tend to create worlds with a certain degree of harshness - just like Fallout's - and filling that world with characters that are constantly 'well-written' can actually hinder the world's immersive qualities.

Because a character that is brought to life brilliantly by writing is then expected to ACT intelligently too, something that most games - with their stationary 'quest point' characters - simply can't create.

FO was ahead of its time in terms of atmosphere and dialogue. I played FO2 before FO1 and to be honest I think it helped me appreciate the first one even more. Black Isle could have easily released them the other way around and make FO1 a prequel to FO2.
As for Bethesda, it is obvious that they're going to milk this for all its worth. I expect FO3 to be the Hollywood version of a foreign film (think "The Departed" vs "Infernal Affairs").
On a more positive note if this game sells well Brian Fargo might get the funding he needs to create a sequel to Wasteland, and that would be something worth getting excited about.

@ Boom: They were making a console version of Talisman...that was one of my fave Games Workshop board games, loved it. But they scrapped the game recently :-(

@ swede: Have you not seen the trailer? I've been singing "I don't want to set the world on fiiiire" for months! lol

Morrowind has superb writing, especially in terms of depth and lore, and some of the characters are very memorable too.

If you say so. Are you a Bethesda's employee? The one Silvervein mentioned?
I'm pretty used to rough, unrewarding beginnings of cRPGs, but Morrowind utterly failed to give me an impression of a living world inhabitated by living creatures. I haven't got an impression of "me" being "there" as well. You know, walking person and stuff. The most unconvincing FPP I ever played. TPP view on the other hand was just ugly.

They don't come an better than the Fallout games. Just update the graphics a bit, get the same writers in and you can have my 40 quid year after year after year...

@ Obiwanshinobi:

It was nothing like the generic mess of Oblivion's dialogue

That was also in my post, but don't tell Bethesda. I might get fired.

First of all, since when are CRPGs supposed to create a 'living world full of living creatures'? That's rubbish. They are all about strict gameplay rules and the context in which those rules are presented, not story and fleshed out personalities. They aren't storybook sims, or adventure games, they are pen-and-paper simulators where the creatures are driven primarily by maths and dice not emotion. While that doesn't mean they can't have good writing or decent characters, it does mean that the emphasis should be on player-challenge and not 'believable NPCs' etc.

I fully understand how Morrowind doesn't appeal to everyone ... it's highly flawed and incredibly unrewarding if you don't take to the premise. However, its plot and inhabitants DID perfectly suit the CRPG context, I feel.

First of all, since when are CRPGs supposed to create a 'living world full of living creatures'? That's rubbish.

That's not rubbish at all, and I don't know how you can separate that from a great player-challenge. Betehsda's games always feeling so sterile and lifeless is pretty much the biggest criticism of their games. Believable NPCs can improve an RPG ten-fold, whether it's your party in Baldur's Gate 2 or NPCs in general in Gothic 1/2. Bethesda have a lot to learn in that area, and it didn't help that Oblivion's much-touted "radiant AI" was marketing gag more than anything else.

To these posters who have mentioned wanting to see a Car Wars game, may I recommend Dark Wind at http://www.dark-wind.com.

Not a perfect match but well worth checking out.

That's not rubbish at all, and I don't know how you can separate that from a great player-challenge. Betehsda's games always feeling so sterile and lifeless is pretty much the biggest criticism of their games. Believable NPCs can improve an RPG ten-fold, whether it's your party in Baldur's Gate 2 or NPCs in general in Gothic 1/2. Bethesda have a lot to learn in that area, and it didn't help that Oblivion's much-touted "radiant AI" was marketing gag more than anything else.

Firstly, without going into the many details why, I'm not a big fan of Oblivion as a CRPG, though it's a fine adventure/RPG. The story and characters were appalling, for the most part.

But here is a better explanation of what I'm trying to say: CRPGs are about levelling and loot. A CRPG world should, first and foremost, accommodate levelling and looting. In a world where characters are drawn 'believably', they are also expected to act and react accordingly. But a CRPG that allows for proper player freedom - like NPC killing, theft, god-killing, rule-bending, etc - could never really co-exist with properly, emotionally 'fleshed out' NPCs.

Morrowind's writing excelled at drawing a lore-rich, choose-your-own-adventure-style world that immersed you because it created a brilliant atmosphere for looting, levelling and exploration, without ever pretending to create 'real' inhabitants that would be expected to react to your actions accordingly.

Also, Baldur's Gate and Gothic, for all the love I bear them, are far more linear by comparison, allowing for much better character writing.

One more thing. Role Playing Games are about playing roles. Maybe while trying to enjoy Morrowind I was in no mood for playing the role of Camera Flying Above Ground Passing By Straners Who Were Talking To Someone Supposed To Be Me Or Maybe It Was Someone Else They Were Talking To I'm Still Not Sure.
I don't think single player cRPG will ever manage to emulate pen and paper RPG. All I know is that feeling of smoehow existing me acting on my own in somehow existing world is what I want from cRPG. Fallout, Arcanum, Gothic, Deus Ex, Planescape: Torment, KotOR - all of them gave me that feeling. Morrowind just didn't.

Shame number 3 will be so conventional. Oblivion was so generic, and now Bethesda has to steal someone elses franchise to inject some originality into their games. They really are just taking someone elses vision and shoehorning it into their dumbed down, consolised format. It's a shame because Morrowind was a great game, then Bethesda realised how much more money they could make by making the combat unloosablle and selling horse armour for £5.

Can you imagine how great this would be if Obsidian had the rights to their own franchise, and as much money and staff as Bethesda? And The support of a half decent publisher?

Abscido: "Morrowind's writing excelled at drawing a lore-rich, choose-your-own-adventure-style world that immersed you because it created a brilliant atmosphere for looting, levelling and exploration, without ever pretending to create 'real' inhabitants that would be expected to react to your actions accordingly."

I agree 100%. The fact that it was so utterly vast didn't hurt either.

"Also, Baldur's Gate and Gothic, for all the love I bear them, are far more linear by comparison, allowing for much better character writing."

That's the second mention of Gothic in this thread, and I just have to say: Gothic 3 was totally under-rated.

Obiwanshinobi: "One more thing. Role Playing Games are about playing roles."

This argument has gone back and forth on these forums so many times and its really a moot point by now. At first blush it would seem like a truism that RPGs are about role-playing, but at the same time we all know very well what COMPUTER RPGs have come to represent, and because of limitations in the technology, they very seldom focus on user role playing. Even the examples that are considered most role-playing-centric are laughably weak in that department if you step back and look at it objectively. There are other measures of good CRPGs.

That said, I think you have EXCELLENT taste in CRPGs anyway. :)

Also, Baldur's Gate and Gothic, for all the love I bear them, are far more linear by comparison, allowing for much better character writing.

The Gothic games are actually a lot less linear than Oblivion's main quest is. Oblivion allows you to travel anywhere, anytime, and do the sidequests in any order you want, but pays a high price for it (like levelling mobs), but the main quest is as linear as railway tracks.

The Gothic games are actually a lot less linear than Oblivion's main quest is. Oblivion allows you to travel anywhere, anytime, and do the sidequests in any order you want, but pays a high price for it (like levelling mobs), but the main quest is as linear as railway tracks.

Oh, absolutely. Like I said, not a fan of Oblivion for many reasons, especially the levelled mobs.

Isn't this article simply a transcription of GameTrailers' video retrospective they published on 25 October?

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42026...

I am one (well, two) of those 50,000. Me! Very very scared about Fallout 3 :( Fingers and toes crossed.

Even the examples that are considered most role-playing-centric are laughably weak in that department if you step back and look at it objectively. There are other measures of good CRPGs.

It may sound like a barrel of laugh, but I've even found some kind of cRPG pleasure in Chrono Trigger. Some of this freedom, this kind of weight behind my decisions and actions. In ABBA's words: it's magic. Something impossible to dissect or measure.
It's hard to ignore the fact of Morrowind being considered as good cRPG by many gamers. I'm just not among them.