Fallout 3

By Oli Welsh Published 25 July, 2008

A falling out.

Perhaps it's just bad timing. Perhaps it's unfortunate juxtaposition. Fallout 3 made its E3 debut in a demonstration at Microsoft's Xbox 360 briefing in close proximity to Gears of War 2 and Resident Evil 5. All of a sudden, in that context, this very special follow-up to some of the most revered properties in role-playing gaming - venerable Interplay classic Fallout, and developer Bethesda's recent smash hit Oblivion - didn't look so special any more.

The barren, broken landscape, the deformed mutant enemies, the muted brown colour scheme, the developers enthusiastically detailing the myriad options for amusing dismemberment, gore, explosions and carnage. It all became a bit of a blur. Then EA showed Dead Space and Left 4 Dead and Rage, and Sony showed Resistance 2, and Take-Two showed Borderlands, and on and on for the rest of the week until - despite the quality of several of these games - the blur became a huge, ugly, indistinguishable smear across the whole of E3. A smear that Fallout 3, of all games, really shouldn't be getting lost in.

So, yes - it was bad luck. After all, you can hardly expect a Fallout game to be about anything other than a post-apocalyptic world beset with mutants, and it isn't Bethesda's fault that the current commercial and political landscape has given the games industry an unhealthier-than-usual obsession with that subject matter. You can, however, expect Bethesda to approach it with polish, sophistication and a unique sense of humour - and this is exactly where we found our half-hour hands-on demo lacking.

'Fallout 3' Screenshot 1

You can't see this poor thing's other head. We tried to shoot it off, but sadly VATS doesn't discriminate.

Fallout 3, as detailed by Kieron, concerns our young hero's search for his father in the wasteland that was once Washington DC, before a nuclear holocaust 200 years ago. At the start of the demo, we emerge from the hermetically-sealed 1950s utopia of the Vault, via a vast and elaborately clunking airlock door, into Washington's sepia-toned ruins. No doubt, it's a dramatic, heart-in-mouth moment, very well handled.

As is Fallout tradition, the game's RPG interface is tidied away into a PIP-Boy 3000 personal terminal, which your character wears on his wrist. It's actually very stylishly and economically done, giving easy and logical access to all the stats and options you could need, and graced with wryly funny drawings of Vault-Boy - the ironic, grinning, cow-licked mascot of the Fallout universe - on every screen.

Wandering forth, we're struck by the extreme openness of the landscape, characterised, as was Oblivion, by rolling inclines and carefully arranged vistas of dramatic architecture. It's several worlds away from the lush, pastoral fantasy of the Elder Scrolls, though. It's one thing to look down on destruction from an isometric viewpoint and coo over the details - it's another to look out across it, all the way to the horizon. (It's also another thing to navigate jagged, messy piles of rubble in 3D, and more than this pre-release version of the game can cope with, as our avatar descends, juddering, up to his waist in the ground.)

'Fallout 3' Screenshot 2

"Super Mutant Behemoth". Shoot it in the face. Or the Fire Hydrant, if you like.

Visually, Fallout 3 is unremittingly bleak. So it should be, although you have to wonder if there will be enough variation in this vast wasteland to sustain interest. But let's give Bethesda's artists the benefit of the doubt on that count, because unfortunately the game has much more tangible shortcomings to take them to task on: the flat, sterile lighting, the excessive contrast, the feeble effects (excepting the mini-nuke explosions of wrecked cars' power units) and, worst by far, the hilariously, embarrassingly wooden animation.

This was a weakness of Oblivion's, too, but it's even more jarring in Fallout 3. The game presents itself in the first-person perspective, but you can pull the camera out to quite a distant third-person viewpoint and move it in full 3D. This means you can examine your character's Gerry Anderson jerking and flailing from any angle; we'd recommend you don't. Unfortunately, you can't help but observe the erratic path-finding, motionless trances and limp movements of the few enemies you encounter this early in the game. You simply can't invoke the visual style of an action game and get away with this stuff.

Enemies won't be moving at all much of the time you're fighting them, though, and that is quite deliberate, a result of the game's Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System, or VATS. Much like the Pause Play in BioWare's Dragon Age: Origins, this marks a sort of return by stealth of turn-based tactics into real-time RPG combat, and in both cases, we approve.

VATS allows you to stop time and spend action points on stringing together attacks. If you have a gun, you can target enemies' limbs and heads specifically - perhaps shooting a gun arm, or going for a headshot - as well as switching between targets. Once your points are spent, you cue a satisfying semi cut-scene that plays out your choices in dynamic camera cuts. Melee weapons only allow you to select whole enemies, but they're still more likely to trigger big finishing moves if you use VATS.

It's a clever system with well-implemented controls, even if its adolescent focus on creative brutality doesn't quite sit right with the game's overall tone. The problem with VATS, however, is the fact you will be compelled to use it all the time, because the real-time combat is so terrible. As Kieron noted, what worked okay in Oblivion's melee combat is not necessarily going to wash when you have a gun in your hand, and the lack of precision, sense of connection or tactile feedback is startling. (It's worth noting here that we tested the Xbox 360 version of the game, and some of these criticisms might not apply if you play on PC with a mouse.)

'Fallout 3' Screenshot 3

You'd think using nukes in this world would be a little, you know, insensitive. A bit of a faux pas.

Fallout 3 is not an action game, though, however much it may want to be (or, perhaps more accurately, however much it's being sold as one). We're reminded of this when we level up a little way into the demo. Although our basic SPECIAL attributes are already set - Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility, and Luck - levelling up gives us a chance to award skill points across a large range of more specific talents.

These are: Barter, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Explosives, Lockpick, Medicine, Melee Weapons, Repair, Science, Small Guns, Sneak, Speech and Unarmed. In some ways this list is the most telling glimpse we can get into the depth and breadth of Fallout 3 within such a short demo. Conversation and bartering are two aspects of the game that we regretfully don't get anywhere near experiencing at E3, but given Bethesda's record and Fallout's history, we'd expect them to have some serious depth and reward, and we're looking forward to examining them more closely.

As well as skill points, you also get to pick a Perk when you level up. This is a themed set of extra skill points or character-specialisation modifiers with a jokey title, such as Little Leaguer (extra damage with the baseball bat) or Daddy's Boy (extra skill points in Repair and Science). It's the only strong flash of character and style we get from the game in our brief hands-on, although it does sound one bum note: Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic.

'Fallout 3' Screenshot 4

Jazz hands!

The game's showing in the Microsoft press conference was something of a bum note as well, with its gleeful ultra-violence and portable nukes failing to evoke the more down-to-earth flavour of grit Fallout is known for. We accept that was probably a hard sell for a broad audience, though. We accept that the game's setting, however dreary within the context of gaming in general, is refreshing within the world of RPGs. Above all, we accept that it's impossible to properly judge a game as vast as this in such a short time span, and that it undoubtedly has many hidden riches.

But beyond that, there are simple questions of quality that it's impossible to avoid: characterless art, cold visuals, wonky animation, weak real-time combat, off-kilter writing. As it stands, Fallout 3 just doesn't feel right, and it will leave many players shivering for warmth in its nuclear winter.

Fallout 3 is due out on PC, PS3 and 360 this October.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (158) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Slikz #1 4 years ago

    Oh gosh, another victim of the hype machine???

    Edited by 2 at 25/07/08 @ 13:09

  • doragor #2 4 years ago

    yikes!
    damn, I was looking forward to this. do they have time to er, fix it?

  • Agent_Llama #3 4 years ago

    Oh dear...

  • BravoGolf #4 4 years ago

    That's disgusting: http://im ages.eurogamer.net/assets/artic...

  • UncleLou #5 4 years ago

    Having watched the E3 trailers and material, the preview sounds about right. Not quite sure where the enthusiasm many show is coming from.

  • aldo_14 #6 4 years ago

    Wow, far more negative than I'd expected. Still, given that I'm brokey broke broke, I'm not going to be too unhappy if it's gash....

    Not quite sure where the enthusiasm many show is coming from.

    In the media? Probably along the lines of "want an exclusive preview? Here, have this, sign this, and write this when you're done. Ta ta-a!"

  • seasidebaz #7 4 years ago

    Oh well, at least there are other games coming out that might be good...

  • Santino #8 4 years ago

    i thought this game looked incredibly dull when shown in the MS press conference, although coming from the people behind oblivion i'm not surprised.

  • UncleLou #9 4 years ago

    No, I meant more the reaction of gamers to the E3 trailers - some people were positively creaming themselves. I thought the combat looked a bit dubious, and rather sterile despite their gore-em-up efforts.

  • koji_m #10 4 years ago

    hmmm...

    that didn't sound all too good

    I can cope with wonky animations and bad real time combat if the pause thing works out and the RPG elements are ok

    but the stuff about the art direction sounded scary, I knew this was gonna be one of these brown/gray games but I'm so tired of those...

    like this is turning out it's all gonna be up to Pete and Lionhead to save my RPG autumn, and that's a very scary thought, for once Pete, don't dissapoint us, we _will_ skin you and feed you to _my_ dog
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 13:21

  • SuperBas #11 4 years ago

    Wow, even the preview is negative. This doesn't bode well!

  • sn3jk #12 4 years ago

    oh noes :(

  • Darren #13 4 years ago

    "But beyond that, there are simple questions of quality that it's impossible to avoid: characterless art, cold visuals, wonky animation, weak real-time combat, off-kilter writing. As it stands, Fallout 3 just doesn't feel right, and it will leave many players shivering for warmth in its nuclear winter."

    Oh-oh... :(

    I actually through the gameplay footage shown on the 360 Marketplace (the announcement video) looked pretty good myself but after reading EG's overly negative preview I'm starting to get worried.

  • Farfarer #14 4 years ago

    Well, this sort of confirmed my worst fears after seeing the E3 stuff. I was still holding out a little bit of hope that they wouldn't completely destroy it.

    Ah, well.

    It's a shame to see such a well crafted IP mangled in Bethesda's clumsy hands.

  • crozon #15 4 years ago

    right wait for the reviews on the pc version before buying me thinks

  • Lexx87 #16 4 years ago

    Guess I can cancel my pre-order for this then!

  • kopykatt #17 4 years ago

    Oh b****, I can't think of anything else to say really. I was so looking forward to this.

  • bengray66 #18 4 years ago

    I think I will remain sitting on the fence for this.

    As a firm member of the Fallout Fan Boy camp (I'm a massive fan, Fallout is still one of my fav games to play through) I will keep to my overly optimistic mood...

    But I fear this is starting to snowball out of control in all the wrong places.

    Could it be they have aimed it toward the retard crowd of FPS obsessed spotty oiks? Dear Jesus I hope not!

  • oerhoert #19 4 years ago

    Now, you would hope somebody at Bethesda actually realized that Oblivion was smeared by the awful character design and animation, and decided to do something about it before embarking on making a new Fallout.

    Seems you'd be thinking too highly of them.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 13:30

  • hiddenranbir #20 4 years ago

    Of course it doesn't feel right. This is Bethesda taking a license that isn't their own. They've never done it right with an other's license!

  • des #21 4 years ago

    Previews mean nothing anyway

  • Newbrit #22 4 years ago

    Finally, someone tells it the way it is. I couldn't believe all the excitement and "zomg Fallout 3 looks amazing" I read as I was following peoples' comments as the press conference was taking place. How embarrassing for them.

  • michaelius #23 4 years ago

    //Conversation and bartering are two aspects of the game that we regretfully don't get anywhere near experiencing at E3, but given Bethesda's record and Fallout's history,

    Well nope actually given Bethesda's history in Oblivion compared to Fallout history we can suspect this aspect of the game will be even worse than mentioned visual glitches.

    Anyway nice to see some reviewer not drooling himself over the flying body parts of VATS.

  • pauleyc #24 4 years ago

    @hiddenranbir: "They've never done it right with an other's license!" - Terminator: Future Shock was good. But that's about it.

    I'm still cautiously optimistic about FO3, providing it's possible to have VATS active all the time.

  • soviet_ #25 4 years ago

    I don't care, I'm going to be buying it. If it's medicore, it can go back

  • MaxiSleep #26 4 years ago

    Weeps openly

    :(

  • berelain #27 4 years ago

    wow.

    Completely and utterly different to <a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=19 3691>CVG's 5-hour hands on session.</a>

  • makeamazing #28 4 years ago

    Im still looking forward to this, I mean guys just because someone says "its not perfect" you all start crying into your milk/beer/cola (delete all that apply). Why not just wait for the reviews before getting all upset.

    Oblivion wasnt perfect but was still a great game, I think there will be some issues in F3, but it all depends on how much fun the game is to play and how serious the issues are... and as someone mentioned, now is the time they will be adding all of the polish and bug fixes.

  • mischief #29 4 years ago

    I'm still looking forward to this.
    Sod the preview. Oblivion is the only game on current gen so far that I have been blown away by and I will happily buy up more of the same. The shonky combat just adds to the fun.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 13:51

  • Fusey #30 4 years ago

    I liked the article except the part where you call Bethesda misogynistic.

    This was 99% over the top based on one line of content and puts doubt over the rest of this article for me.



  • makeamazing #31 4 years ago

    @ berelain well that 5 hour review seems pretty good, so one of them is wrong, which one :D

    Considering the comments on the review, here are the two main points from the CVG review:

    "The dialogue and voice-acting throughout seems fine - good even. You shouldn't go in expecting the reams and reams of dialogue that could present itself in Fallout of old, but you should expect the same variation, number of replies and tone.

    Can I vouch for it being better, worse or "Argh! So much worse!" than the old games? No, as I haven't met enough people or delved deep enough into their characters (sorry, nma-fallout.com) but I can scientifically state that both acting and dialogue are at least a bazillion times better than Oblivion's. They can put that one on the posters.

    This is a very different game, a very special game, and one I simply cannot wait to contaminate myself with come Autumn.

    Guess we will soon see.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 13:54

  • doragor #32 4 years ago

    @ UncleLou

    er, isn't Fallout 3 on your Most Wanted list?

  • soviet_ #33 4 years ago

    @berelain - Wow, that preview sounds amazing. 5 hours aswell rather than 30 mins

    "Wadsworth the robot butler who can cut your hair" - sold
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 13:58

  • RM2KMaster #34 4 years ago

    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic."

    You miserable bastard.

  • andywilkie35 #35 4 years ago

    i'm currently playing through Oblivion again and i still love it, reading this is a bit disheartening but i'm still looking forward to it. if its got a good story then that'll be a big factor for me

  • john_silence #36 4 years ago

    "characterless art, cold visuals, wonky animation, weak real-time combat, off-kilter writing. As it stands, Fallout 3 just doesn't feel right": Oblivion all over again. Man, when I think of the amazing art direction of Arena back in the 90's, I wonder how Bethesda got this low. The screenshots we've been seing for a while had been enough for me to pretty much mae my mind up about Fallout 3, because it cannot work without an interesting art direction and it seems to be, simply put, crap. Vulgar, ugly, derivative.

    SecondMiltia (isn't there a spelling error in your name?): ???
    The introductory bit about E3 was great, informative, and funny, an excellent approach to the core content, and the way Welsh starts out by pre-emptively qualifying his subsequent statements, before bashing the game on several fronts that have very little chance of being much improved before launch (the terrible writing for instance, and the overall lack of personality) are perfectly sensible - and totally professional, of course. Why do you think the journalists are invited at E3? The publishers need that kind of coverage, that's why they have the devs prepare 30-minute gameplay chunks for that purpose.
    You're not a journalist, and it shows.
    As to everyone "lapping it up", well, the press is a reference, you know, so people tend to turn to it as a point of reference when considering the value of a game or anything else...

  • mcmonkeyplc #37 4 years ago

    uh oh! Might save me some money though.

  • Weezer #38 4 years ago

    I hope…

    1) Eurogamer got a crappy pre-alpha build with a big to-do list of fixes
    or
    2) Bethesda read this preview and delay the game by six months to make it betterer

    For an October launch, you'd think it would be going gold in September, which gives them about six weeks of polishing. Two months tops. Erk.

  • dirk_aircool #39 4 years ago

    Sounds disapointing . is it my imagination or have most recent ' previews / hands on ' been rather negative . including mercanaries 2 ( I think I spelled that wrong . no not the 2 ) . At least we can be fairly sure that eurogamer isn't fawning round the developers to get freebies and exclusives . every games gets hyped , people get paid lots for doing it ,some live up to expectations and some dont . just be wary of games that come out with no review copys sent to sites like eurogamer .
    See . I'm hyping up Eurogamer . thats 3 times I've typed eurogamer now . ( 4 now )

  • berelain #40 4 years ago

    the CVG preview does sound rather more positive.

    But then, I wasn't holding my hopes up for this article after reading the first few lines. Seems to me that if someone goes into a playtest of an alpha build of an in-development game and starts off with that kind of negative attitude the preview is going to come out pretty bad.

  • DFawkes #41 4 years ago

    What happened to the unwritten rule of minimal critisism in previews? Not that i mind, we all know the games rarely change in any big way. Still want it though.

  • Bitkari #42 4 years ago

    OH GOD NO!

  • Verwandlung #43 4 years ago

    Expected.

  • speedofthepuma #44 4 years ago

    "Lady killer" is a bit funny...

  • Evolution #45 4 years ago

    Maybe a good injection of negativity is what we need to bring the expectation down a notch.

  • Azazel #46 4 years ago

    Yeah, I'm all for not hyping the fuck out of something for once.

  • Lemming81 #47 4 years ago

    Something smells funny here. EG are the only ones moaning about this game...

    NMA haven't paid you off have they?

  • PearOfAnguish #48 4 years ago

    Dear oh dear. This will stir up the crazies at NMA. It does sound a bit rubbish.

  • ShineDog #49 4 years ago

    For the record, regarding the Ladykiller perk, And tbh I'm not sure if this makes it any better...

    Female characters get an equivalent perk called, I believe, Man Eater, that does the same thing. Extra damage to men and new dialogue options.

  • BlackKraken #50 4 years ago

    Thanks for ruining my excitement for this game eurogamer, thanks a lot.

  • Widge #51 4 years ago

    Now I wasn't expecting this... :(

    Think I'll go for a PC version instead, at least the likes of Francesco can FIX it! :D

  • actionfitz #52 4 years ago

    QQ

  • PearOfAnguish #53 4 years ago

    "I think I'll stick to CVG's 5 hour preview, where they quoted

    "it's better than Deus Ex." "

    Hahaha. Hilarious!

  • gallow #54 4 years ago

    They fucked this game the moment it went FPS.

  • kopykatt #55 4 years ago

    I apologise to everyone including me - I'll wait till its released before getting upset. I'm also surprised by the amount of people slagging off Oblivion. I loved it. Must be a bit odd or something

  • Anthony_UK #56 4 years ago

    After oblivion i'm not suprised. Oblivion was awesome in scope, but as soon as you start to do anything apart from look at some of the lovely views, combat especially I felt it really struggled to make you feel you were in an actual world, rather than were playing just some long winded RPG.

    I'll think i'll give this a miss also.......someone send them a copy of mass effect!

  • berelain #57 4 years ago

    Just because a game is played from a first-person perspective doesn't make in an FPS...

  • Widge #58 4 years ago

    Oblivion is fantastic unless you've played Morrowind, then it just becomes "very good" instead. Although visually lovely, it just didn't FEEL as grand a scope game.

  • Cider86 #59 4 years ago

    Not quite sure where the enthusiasm many show is coming from.

    Its probably because the first two Fallout games have such good memories for people and because Oblivion was such a good game. People think that because both were open world RPGs, that Bethesda doing Fallout was a perfect fit. Hence the excitement. But in reality these games have fundamental differences, particularly in tone and combat.

    I'm simply not convinced by the combat at all; real time looks like an unimpressive third person shooter and the VATS system a simplfied version of the old Fallout games. It could still be good, I just don't think it will be.

  • berelain #60 4 years ago

    Widge, my sentiments exactly.

  • frostcircus #61 4 years ago

    "It just doesn't feel right" is the best way to describe my reaction to the clips I've seen. I've been a great supporter of the whole first-person action thing (yes, 99% of Bethesda's comments regarding this are clearly bullshit, but I just want a first-person Fallout game), but what I saw was very underwhelming.

    The shitty animation was the most obvious problem, and Bethesda are in great danger of this becoming their 'thing', but there just wasn't any... chemistry. It didn't feel like... anything, really. Sure, what he was describing was indeed happening on screen - but that was it. It seemed like a half-baked facsimile of the game he was talking about, rather than the actual game itself.

    This is a year with a massive amount of open-world games coming out, so trumpeting "you can play it how you like!" just doesn't impress anymore, you need to actually have a truly impressive game to back it up. I really hope it was just a bad preview, and that they actually do have one. I'm wary.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 15:04

  • DuTraveller #62 4 years ago

    oh....i was disapointed...again

  • ekko #63 4 years ago

    Sigh, I sort of had the nagging feeling it would turn out like this as soon as I heard Bethesda were working on it. Oblivion: Fallout Edition...

    Still hopeful it'll be a good game, but not expecting it to be.

  • Snidesworth #64 4 years ago

    I've been wondering for a long time why every gaming website is going mad for this game. I'm glad to see that one of them shares my concerns about Fallout 3.

  • miiiguel #65 4 years ago

    oh..., a non-indulgent preview. Shocked.

    Anyway, I found the "mysogenic" claim about the skill (?) that affects only female foes a bit out-of-place and a bit of a re-edition of RE5 nonsense.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #66 4 years ago

    I thought it looked good from the presentation video off of Xbox Live Marketplace.

    Oblivion is almost certainly the game I've played for the longest time this console generation, and if this is a retro-post-apocalyptic Oblivion, shonky animation, only-three-character-voice-actors, repeated geometry, overwhelming brownness and all, then that's fine and dandy by me.

    I thought the pause-combat business reminded me of KOTOR.

  • darc #67 4 years ago

    I'm starting to get the sense that this is nowhere near shipping. Isn't it a little late in the game for things like this:

    "It's also another thing to navigate jagged, messy piles of rubble in 3D, and more than this pre-release version of the game can cope with, as our avatar descends, juddering, up to his waist in the ground."

    Sad to see the press so indifferent about this. This is the game I've most been looking forward to since it was announced. I'm not even an old-school Fallout guy; this just sounded perfect. Sad to hear that it's not getting the full treatment.

    Anyway, it still might be a fun game. The most important thing to me is that the tactical demands in combat amount to something substantial. The whole VATS thing sounded like a welcome return to the best moments of games like Baldur's Gate 2, where you'd hit the space bar and say, "Hmm, how can I survive this??" I hope it's not reduced to a "Select the Controversial, Gory Cutscene that Amuses You Most" feature.

    Still very much looking forward this, but it's been inching it's way down from "Preorder" to "Best Rent First" status. And maybe in the meantime I'd better get my PC back up to speed in hopes that Dragon Age will be good.

  • Bumbuliuz #68 4 years ago

    The article had the wibe of beeing written and paid for by the NMA.

    Or mabye he just didnt like it, Im guessing the former :)

  • bdc #69 4 years ago

    Oh dear

  • jellyhead #70 4 years ago

    Oh dear :(
    I had great hopes for this but now i'm just praying it'll be bearable so i can get the PC version and have the community patch it. Dang, i love the Fallout series and it was a must buy but now it's a wait and see.
    oh well, we'll find out soon.

  • Xerx3s #71 4 years ago

    "Having watched the E3 trailers and material, the preview sounds about right. Not quite sure where the enthusiasm many show is coming from."

    *g* I don't know, the sequel to the best rpg franchise ever made (yeah sorry but this was better than the BG franchise)?

  • Dynamize #72 4 years ago

    Conversation and bartering are two aspects of the game that we regretfully don't get anywhere near experiencing at E3, but given Bethesda's record and Fallout's history, we'd expect them to have some serious depth and reward, and we're looking forward to examining them more closely.

    HAHAHAHAHA, you're not serious?

  • gallow #73 4 years ago

    What I should have said was "they fucked the game the moment they put it into a first person perspective". This style of game plays much better from a zoomed out 3rd person perspective. I really loved the 2nd and Tactics Fallout games. They had such amazing attention to detail and humour. My favourite trait being blood mess which results in those around you dying in the most hideous ways.

    I used to love pick pocketing peoples weapons and sneaking around before engaging in combat.

  • FatsoJetson #74 4 years ago

    E3 video looked aces. This preview, worrying.

    But really, if you were to play a half-hour demo of Oblivion from the moment you left the first sewer, you'd be underwhelmed too.

    I know I was. "Sure the view's beautiful," I thought, "but am I really going to be spending all my time looking at the ground wacking crabs and wolves with a shitty sword."

    Didn't stop me putting more than 30 hours into the game, though.

  • CunningLinguist #75 4 years ago

    As I started reading the article this feeling of political correctness came over me, then as I went down through the paragraphs I realized EG called it for what it is. After the initial preview in which you guys made fun of us FO fans for liking to look down on things (i.e. isometric view) it feels rather good to see your eyes have finally opened. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the game is lacking in terms of animation, art direction, and most important personality. Sure they say they were aiming for more of a FO 1 sequel since they knew they can't say anything about FO 2 without a shitstorm ensuing. But this game, from what I've read and seen, just doesn't have that edge. It shows in the video, various lesser sites called it, and now EG calls it. Well done! Please don't turn into Gamespot 2.0


    If you want more on FO3 there's this blog I found http://fallout3.wordpr ess.com/

  • Miths #76 4 years ago

    I think I'm going to erase my memory of this preview and remember the rather more positive one CVG. Yep, I do believe the animation will be sub par - Bethesda just never seems to have had any decent animators on the payroll - but based on the five hour session described in the CVG preview, it sounds like there's still a very good chance I'll love most other things about the game.
    And I'm actually kind of glad that it seems that using VATS in combat is almost the intended way to play the game. Overall it sounds like Fallout 3 is staying pretty close to its RPG roots than morphing into a half assed first person shooter.

  • Daymare #77 4 years ago

    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic."

    Yeah, but it's also very Fallout-ish and would not look out of place in two predecessors. I bet the(p)reviewer is not complaining about the Bloody mess perk, even though it adresses even worse tendencies of human nature. And it's not like you're forced to choose this or any perk, now is it;)

  • BigJonno #78 4 years ago

    "Conversation and bartering are two aspects of the game that we regretfully don't get anywhere near experiencing at E3,"

    Well that instantly renders this preview completely bloody pointless doesn't it.

    This current trend of RPGs being marketed and/or previewed/reviewed as action games just because they try something more action-oriented than turn-based or clickety-click combat systems is starting piss me off. I don't give a shit what the combat in Fallout 3 is like, I just want to know whether the story is any good.

    I can understand the marketing side somewhat, it's easier to sell an FPS than an RPG but I don't expect it from the allegedly knowledgeable specialist gaming press. In the future, can you just let Kieron Gillen do all the RPG writing, please?

  • frostcircus #79 4 years ago

    bcolter just did an amazing job of defending a game without actually defending it

  • fletch273 #80 4 years ago

    Come on, really. Anyone who has played the previous fallout games is going to buy this regardless of what this completely negative preview says.

  • Genji #81 4 years ago

    I very much disliked Oblivion. There... I said it. It had almost nothing to do with the animation - just the general lifelessness of the world. Maybe that'd be more suited to a game like Fallout, though.

    I'll most likely pick this up. It probably won't be as good as the first Fallout, but that doesn't automatically mean "bad".
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 17:15

  • john_silence #82 4 years ago

    It's absolutely wonderful the amount of crap one reads on this thread. Eurogamer threads are usually a bit better than this. Between the stupids who're complaining how bad the journalist is when they obviously have NO clue as to what journalism is (i.e., they believe a journalist is paid to write exactly what they want to read, or they think it's vain to write anything about a game played for 30 minutes but came to read a preview, which is exactly that) and the pointless insults and debased unfriendliness on display (such replies as "New here eh? So... Piss Off" are deeply repelling) this thing deserves to just be locked.
    Comments and communities... the Web 2.0 is really the most ludicrous thing that's happened to mankind since a long time. And on that cheerful note...
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 17:20

  • TheJuriel #83 4 years ago

    Wow, that's harsh.

  • Genji #84 4 years ago

    @bcolter

    No, YOU fuck off!

    OH BURN

  • BigJonno #85 4 years ago

    (i.e., they believe a journalist is paid to write exactly what they want to read, or they think it's vain to write anything about a game played for 30 minutes but came to read a preview, which is exactly that)

    I come to Eurogamer to get good-quality gaming journalism. I expect to read the journalist's opinions in any level of preview, whether it be based on a 30 minute demo or a whole month of playing. As an RPG fan, I find it difficult to glean any useful information when RPG aspects are given a backseat to the combat system, especially when the game comes from a long-established RPG series or developer (both, in this case.)

    The nature of the demo seems to be at fault in this instance, but it is a worrying trend.

  • darc #86 4 years ago

    "It's absolutely wonderful the amount of crap one reads on this thread..."

    LOL critiquing criticism of criticism... if this gets any more "meta" I going straight down the rabbit hole. Quick, someone tell me what you think of this comment, scale of 1-10.

    "pointless insults and debased unfriendliness on display (such replies as "New here eh? So... Piss Off" are deeply repelling) this thing deserves to just be locked."

    You think this thread needs to be locked? You should read some of the outright nuttery that happens the PS3 vs. XBox threads. This doesn't even flash on the radar.

    "the Web 2.0 is really the most ludicrous thing that's happened to mankind since a long time."

    Oh come on now, that's just pretensious. 6/10. ;)

  • darc #87 4 years ago

    "The nature of the demo seems to be at fault in this instance, but it is a worrying trend."

    Obviously everyone who says it's premature to form an opinion is right; no proper RPG will reveal its charms in the first 30 minutes of gameplay. But what worries me is when Bethesda demos the product they seem to be missing the point themselves. If there's a deeper game in here somewhere, they should know better than anyone, and should have found some way to present it as such. Instead, we've seen footage of what looks like a mediocre shooter, with a marketeer babbling about the gory kills as if to target a primary audience of 12-year old boys. Perhaps that is his target audience, but if that's so, Fallout 1/2 fans won't likely be satisfied.

    Still, could go either way. It might be the greatest RPG ever and Bethesda just didn't/couldn't come up with a way to "package" it for the conferences etc. Let's hope.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 18:02

  • ExplodingClown #88 4 years ago

    Pfft, I'll wait for the finished product and make up my own mind. You can bet the launch will slip for tweaking anyway. And before shitting all over Bethesda for murdering a venerated licence, does anyone actually remember what unmitigated shit Fallout:Tactics was? You know, where they redesigned the classic powered armour to look like Batman? Or Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel? The latter especially had all the charm of a blocked toilet. Let's have some perspective here!
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 18:20

  • Katsumoto #89 4 years ago

    That "CVG" preview is actually a PC Zone article that CVG are hosting. Then again, 90% of the content on CVG is just lifted from various magazines. Pretty weird system really. Anyway, yes, they did sound a lot more positive. PC Zone are generally quite positive about life though. THey gave Everquest 2 95%! :) I do love the mag though, great read. Unfortunately after that E3 vid and now this article my hopes aren't exactly "up there".

    Still - when you have low expectations for a game you are all the more pleased when things turn out alright, so here's hoping.

  • Silvervein #90 4 years ago

    Let me introduce myself. Long time fan of fallout 1/2. Less so fallout tactics. I try to pretend that Fallout: brotherhood of steel didn't exist. I have also followed fallout 3 bethesda forums since they opened.

    About fallout 3, as far as I can tell from all information available now.

    If you look for a game similar to fallout 1/2, fallout 3 is *not* for you.

    If, on the other hand, you look for quick and bloody romp (in first person) through zombie infested ruins, with a lot of gore (showed in slow motion thanks to VATS), as well as some light roleplaying elements, fallout 3 might be a game for you.

    One important difference between fallout 1/2 and 3: 1/2 were simulations of pen and paper experience. Fallout 3 is an action adventure game, with stress put on gore and action.

    With small problem related to fallout 3 being in 3d: what looked amusing as messy deaths of small sprites in isometric view in fallout 1/2, doesn't look that amusing when shown in 3d. But this is just my personal opinion.

    PS.
    @darc
    Your impression that target audience of fallout 3 is indeed early teenage male population is indeed shared by a lot of people, both on bethesda fallout 3 forums and outside.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 18:24

  • BigJonno #91 4 years ago

    Yeah, I do think that the marketing strategy is something along the lines of "The Fallout fans are a shoe-in (or were so repulsed when it wasn't a lumbering dinosaur of a turn-based strategy game that they wrote it off anyway,) the other RPG gamers will come for the Bethesda name, let's try and get the action gamers!"

  • Feanor #92 4 years ago

    Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic.

    Oh do fuck off with that PC crap. It's fine to explode people left, right and center but you're going to draw the line at calling a female enemy a bitch?

  • Silvervein #93 4 years ago

    @feanor
    Lady killer perk is nothing compared to flagship of bethesda humour, a shining star on their comedic sky: Drinking From Toilets.
    What a subtle satire, what a witty humour. And we will be treated to it after they stated, in one of the interviews, that monty python references of fallout 2 were 'over the top' and 'breakig immersion'.

    I know one thing. Bethesda is known for many things, but good storytelling and writing are not among them.

  • darc #94 4 years ago

    "light roleplaying elements"

    There's an oxymoron buried in there somewhere. :) Why am I starting to have Bioshock flashbacks?

  • ExplodingClown #95 4 years ago

    Just read the CVG preview, and it at least reads like it was written by someone who played Fallout 1 and loved it. Re-reading the EG preview, I'm not sure what to make of it. As for the 'adolescent' violence, I distinctly remember people melting into puddles of slag, or sagging to the ground with a huge chunk blown out of them, or spasming violently in a hail of automatic fire, in the original games: plus the infamous Bloody Mess perk. Criticism of continuity?

    @Silvervein: I must say, I hated the Monty Python stuff - and much of the general larkiness - in F2. It was twee and jarred badly, unlike the more amusing stuff like the Canadian Invasion references and the digs at Scientology (the Hubbers and their space shuttle). Not aware of 'Drinking From Toilets' but have been on self-imposed info blackout so as to avoid spoilers, so I assume it's a perk?
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/08 @ 19:38

  • UncleLou #96 4 years ago

    "@ UncleLou

    er, isn't Fallout 3 on your Most Wanted list?"


    Even ignoring the fact that I rather obviously don't update my Most Wanted list on a daily basis, I fail to see the contradiction.

  • n3utr0n #97 4 years ago

    "Conversation and bartering are two aspects of the game that we regretfully don't get anywhere near experiencing at E3, but given Bethesda's record and Fallout's history, we'd expect them to have some serious depth and reward"

    What?

  • yagisencho #98 4 years ago

    Talk about missing the forest for the trees. This preview describes the models and animation, but doesn't touch on story, quests, or gameplay. You know, the things that make or break an RPG. Sure, if you didn't enjoy Oblivion, you'll probably have trouble enjoying this one as well. But as someone who's put nearly 200 hours into Oblivion and played the original two Fallout games to death, I'm still pumped for this one.

  • VMerken #99 4 years ago

    Ooh, text by Oli Welsh. The presence of Securom pretty much sealed the non-deal with me anyways, although it might be interesting to comb through the EULA and see how they're going to tell us we can't use our DVD-writers anymore or not install the game for more than two times. Or maybe some new-fangled goodness like phoning home periodically?

  • darc #100 4 years ago

    @ExplodingClown - I don't take exception to the "adolescent violence" (I'm hard pressed to think of a recent video game doesn't feature a bit of this); I take exception to a Bethesda representative carrying on as if it's the game's raison detre. Show me a gory a cutscene, fine, but I'll hope to have had an interesting time getting there.

  • Plater #101 4 years ago

    I really can`t believe you lot are falling for this terrible article, what did he play? half an hour? Of course the landscape is bleak .. duh, its post apocolyptic. As for the animation, i`ve read lots of reviews and previews of this game, and many have said that the animations are miles better than oblivions.
    This game is going to be a top seller, shame on you Euro-gamer for such a dreadful article...
    If anyone wants to read a proper article, where the reviewer had about 5 hours of gametime, i suggest yo check out UK`s PC Zone magazine, September 2008 issue... that article is compulsive reading....

    /sigh

    Plater

  • zippie151 #102 4 years ago

    Delay ne1?? lol To be honest tho it was never gonna live up to the old ones neways (without being made by the old devs) but at least they are still making the mmo (hopefully!). Looks like my money gonna be on fable 2 then!! And maybe dead space tht game intrigues me

  • fletch273 #103 4 years ago

    I liked Fallout Tactics.

  • darc #104 4 years ago

    "Delay ne1?? lol To be honest tho it was never gonna live up to the old ones neways"

    Just for the record, "any" is only 3 characters long. Otherwise, yah, there's always Fable2. :)

  • FortysixterUK #105 4 years ago

    Sorry, but even whilst I have no hands on experience with this game, I find it to hard to believe it's as bad as EG have made it sound. Once again I find the reporting comes across as somewhat arrogant ( that is, the "tone" of the writing )I'll make my own decision about this game, as in recent memory EG reviews have only been truly accurate about one of the games they have reviewed and I have encounted, and that was Hour of Victory on Xbox 360, So, until the release of Fallout 3, I'll just send in my normal , juvenile comeback phrase..." EG writers and many of its readers appear to be EDGE readers...." ( Edge magazine is totally up it's own arse).....see what I did there? didya?...clever huh ?

    Oblivion was wonderful by the way.

  • makeamazing #106 4 years ago

    I really enjoyed oblivion... yes there were aspects of it that needed more work... but if F3 is better than oblivion then to me its a hit.

    I better pre-order it actually, havent done it yet.

  • Silvervein #107 4 years ago

    @ExplodingClown
    No, the toilet drinking I mentioned is not a perk. It's a way of healing yourself. Imagine this: It's 200 years past global nuclear war. Ruins everywhere. Water is scarce and water pumps fell apart 150 years ago. And among those ruins, intact, working toilets, waiting for you to drink from them to heal yourself. I won't comment on the idea itself, since it's gross, but magic postapocalyptic toilets...are they new Health Potions? This is one of the details about fallout 3 that doesn't exactly add to immersion, at least in my book. Even fallout 1/2 didn't stretch the imagination of players that far.

    @FortysixterUK
    Bad is a relative term. What's bad for one is great for another. As I mentioned in my previous post here, if you played fallout 1/2 and liked them, don't look for more of the same in fallout 3, it's entirely different game, with different focus. That's not to say that people won't like it: I'm sure there's a lot of people who will enjoy watching their bullets turn zombies/ogres...oops, I meant mutants/other oblivion comebacks into exploding sacks of sausage stuffing, and all in slow motion.

    All I'm saying is that fallout 3, contrary to its name and number, is not a sequal to fallout 1/2. It's a spin off, loosely based on fallout 1/2. Whether it will be good, medicore or bad, I don't know and would not want to guess.

  • Ryuken #108 4 years ago

    " i suggest yo check out UK`s PC Zone magazine, September 2008 issue... that article is compulsive reading.... "

    PC Zone... compulsive reading... sorry but that does not compute, lad. And it's the same CVG article, why even buy the mag for that? :)

    Why all the fuss about a negative preview btw? It's not like we couldn't have seen these kind of issues coming in Fallout 3, even the footage that was already shown is pointing out these problems Oli mentioned. Is it right to only hype/be overly optimistic about a game pre-release, whether it's based on half hour, five hour (if that's 'enough' for a big RPG then I'll eat my shoes) or near-complete playtests? I think the problem here is that everyone wants this game to succeed and do all the right things, any other option seems banned out of many people's minds because oh-no, a big game might be disappointing, we don't even want to consider that option because it would be the end of the world and we probably won't have any other good games coming out this Fall...

    I'd say that looking past any possible irritations in a previewversion is a lot more arrogant (towards the readers) than bringing them up in a preserved but to-the-point manner. Although EG certainly hasn't always gone for the latter option for every preview, that's for sure.
    Edited by 2 at 25/07/08 @ 23:30

  • frostcircus #109 4 years ago

    Obviously we shouldn't make up our minds on the game based on one 30-minute preview from one person, that'd be madness. But I didn't realise any of us were actually doing this. Even cancelling a preorder isn't an overreaction - it's the smart thing to do, at least until we know this is all a horrible mistake and the game is actually brilliant.

    Personally, I give some weight to Oli's comments based purely on the fact that he's the first person to acknowledge the elephant in the room by mentioning the terrible animation. That none of the other previews have done even this doesn't make me think Oli's an arrogant contrarian dick, it makes me think the other previews are predisposed to gushing.

    As for not seeing the forest for the trees - sorry, but animation isn't a tiny niggling detail, it's something we're looking at the entire time we play. If they want to keep a camera on the ground and show us everything through our character's eyes, the graphics have to stand up to this. It's true that graphics aren't important in an RPG, but graphics are important in a Bethesda RPG. They've made that pretty cl[at this point frostcircus realises he's new here and Pisses Off]

  • timberwolf #110 4 years ago

    judge it as an rpg.

  • Plater #111 4 years ago

    Ryukem ...."PC Zone... compulsive reading... sorry but that does not compute, lad. And it's the same CVG article, why even buy the mag for that? "

    FYI i didn`t buy the mag for `that`, i always read the mag, i`m just pointing out that pc zone had a much better article based on 5 hours gameplay over half an hour.

    and, i`m not a `lad` , i`m 45 years old.. probably old enough to be your dad. // fail

    Plater

  • KreyAtiv #112 4 years ago

    Was somewhat looking forward to this. Well times a ticking Bethesta find the bug spray and get to it.
    Should be able to afford one of those clocks that count down. A little over 2 months to get it sorted. And.....GO!

  • slivir #113 4 years ago

    Morrowind and Oblivion sucked. When I heard Bethesda was doing F3 a little piece of me died inside. I never had any hope for this game since then.

    I'd love to be wrong though.

  • Tomo #114 4 years ago

    Agreed with the posts about the very odd misogynist claim. Otherwise, the preview made for very interesting reading. Will watch this one closely.

  • Lamont #115 4 years ago

    This game looked ghastly. I'm glad Eurogamer had the stones to come out and say it.

  • Lamont #116 4 years ago

    Atrocious character modeling (no surprise there), bland art palette and awful animations. I was kind of hoping Bethesda had learned form Oblivion. I guess not. I'm now sure the voice-over will be Ron Perlman and "that other guy who plays everyone else"

  • ExplodingClown #117 4 years ago

    @Silvervein: Ah, didn't know about the toilets. Mind you, I do remember that when you examined them in F1 you would usually get the description "Whoever last used this did not flush!", which leads me to believe that the authenticity of post-atomic lavvies may not have been uppermost in Black Isle's minds either. Seems a bit 'Jackass', but still funnier than 98% of the 'jokes' in Hellgate:London.

    @darc: fair point, though flying guts are pretty much guaranteed to get an audience's attention, and attention spans are pretty short these days. Far as Fable 2 goes as an alternative, got to say I'm sick to the point of puking of sub-Tolkien fantasy in RPGs so it's not even on the radar. Mass Effect wasn't exactly deep but not once while playing it did I hear the word "elf".

  • Orange #118 4 years ago

    I'm crossing this off my list, was willing to give Bethesda a try despite grave doubts after Oblivion. Sounds like they've going to fail at it, and won't even reach the mediocre heights of "sci-fi Oblivion".

  • makeamazing #119 4 years ago

    I'm crossing this off my list, was willing to give Bethesda a try despite grave doubts after Oblivion. Sounds like they've going to fail at it, and won't even reach the mediocre heights of "sci-fi Oblivion".

    Its pretty funny that some people are saying "Not playing this now" or "Cancelling my pre-order"... just because one guy from EG said some things about it that weren't overtly positive. Why don't you just wait until it comes out and reserve judgement until then :)

    Latest News : EG Reviewer says jump off cliff.... a pile of EG Readers are found at the bottom of the cliff!

  • CunningLinguist #120 4 years ago

    You could always download a cracked PC version and see if you like it. Plus at the price they're charging for the normal version (almost 70 euros in sweden) I don't think people are going to bite that easily. GTA 4 cost 55 euros when it came out, and GTA has only gone up in quality and scope since its first incarnation, while Fallout has a lot to prove after this 10 year long hiatus.

    As for the preview, what's wrong with calling a spade a spade? I saw the MS video, I saw how those raiders run, and how one spun around on one leg cause he couldn't run through this old shell of a car. I also saw how stiff one of them looked when he got up close and started hitting the player with a wrench. First thought that came to mind was Oblivion. I don't hate Oblivion, but imo Fallout has a whole different pacing. It's not run and gun, ammo is scarce. You take your time, you think about your options. I don't want to be a party pooper, but I think while they might have most of the fallout elements in there it could very well be the lack of that primordial "Fallout feel", that gels everything together, that will be the downfall of this game.
    Edited by 1 at 26/07/08 @ 12:20

  • InsoFox #121 4 years ago

    Woah.

  • Azazel #122 4 years ago

    K... Keanu?

  • Chalee #123 4 years ago

    Oh come on guys...

    I bet that when the proper review comes around it'll get a decent score like 8/10 and EG will say something on the lines of 'animations are a bit rubbish but the sheer scope and depth bla bla storytelling bla suck us right in oh yeah'

  • Lemming81 #124 4 years ago

    [link url=http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/200 8/07/14/fallout-3-in-game-footage-at-last/
    ]http://ww w.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/...[/link]


    Just watched the above footage and I'm sorry, but EG is talking out of it's arse on this one. That looks brilliant. And the dev showing the game actually says 'for the pruposes of this demo I'm going to play it as a combat game' before outlining alternative options.

    Clearly with the demo they are just trying to win over the console crowd with some whizz-bang. Still, it looks fantastic, IMO.

  • makeamazing #125 4 years ago

    I decided to see what videos there were on IGN, and just watched them. I can say that I was impressed and am certainly looking forward to this game.

  • UncleLou #126 4 years ago

    "[link url=http://ww w.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/...
    ]http://ww w.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/...[/link]

    Just watched the above footage and I'm sorry, but EG is talking out of it's arse on this one. That looks brilliant."

    I see absolutely nothing brilliant there. It looks like a technically sub-par action game. Now I am not saying it won't be a good game, but that trailer doesn't do much for me.

  • Silvervein #127 4 years ago

    As I'm trying to tell people who are interested in fallout in general, and fallout 3 in particular.
    If you like shooter akin to max payne (where you loved the shooting and bullet time thingy), but wanted some light roleplaying elements (gaining experience and levelling up, some minor skills related to conversation), fallout 3 might be the game you will enjoy.

    But never, ever, treat fallout 3 as a roleplaying game of the kind fallout 1/2, or planescape: torment, or even knights of the old republic were. At its heart, fallout 3 is an action game, with bells and whistles designed to appeal to people who like action and inordinate amount of gore. If I were to draw comparisons, fallout 3 might be something like oblivion or mass effect. You do talk there, there is some story, but that's about all you can say about. Those things take a back seat to action, action and once again, action.

    PS.
    Open question is, of course, how good action game is it going to be. If I were to chose, I'd probably go for stalker: clear sky. Smilar setting and proven gameplay (which I enjoyed). Fallout 3 is descendant of oblivion and morrowind, and those games were not exactly heavy on ranged combat, which requires different thing from both game dynamic and enemy AI than games where combat is almost always resolved using old and tried 'run to baddie, bash it with your stick' way.

    Edited by 1 at 26/07/08 @ 14:18

  • sirtacos #128 4 years ago

    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic."

    Quick, call the PC brigade so that we can have brain showers about how to prevent such horrors. I am also deeply offended at the lack of gay zombies mentioned in the demo, and find the term 'jazz hands' hurtful towards African Americans.

  • aaronali #129 4 years ago

    This addresses my concerns precisely after watching the E3 demonstration. The game looks rushed, derivative of better games and childish in its humour. Good job Oli with a fair assessment of an overhyped game.

  • Kreydon #130 4 years ago

    bengray66 said:
    As a firm member of the Fallout Fan Boy camp (I'm a massive fan, Fallout is still one of my fav games to play through) I will keep to my overly optimistic mood...

    Eh, so you're such a big Fallout fan you're looking forward for a game with completely different gameplay, designed mainly with people who didn't play the predecessors in mind, made by people whose concept of game morals is "do the good thing or do the bad thing" and who consider two possible outcomes to a quest revolutionary? Who described their quest design as "We usually have a violent solution, and something else you can do"?
    No to mention that we've yet to see any substantial example of their writing quality.

    Oh, and I almost forgot their wonderful understanding of Fallout humour, i.e. violence, cursing and sexual references.
    Also, to clear this up for the hopleless: It's the focus on a few crude elements that may have been present in Fallout that make it bad. Sure, there were toilets in Fallout, and they had a description like most objects. Noone suggested you drink out of them and considered it brilliant comedy, however. Also, there is a subtle difference between the death animations in Fallout and splatter. Some might miss it.*

    Yeah, as a Fallout Fan Boy, you sure have every reason to be optimistic.


    *That's a double entendre.
    Edited by 1 at 26/07/08 @ 16:34

  • makeamazing #131 4 years ago

    Oh please... this is getting stupid. Just cause the guy likes the previous Fallout Games and your saying this is not remotely like them, your saying there is no way he can like it or be optimistic that he will like it... thats just rubbish.

  • MrDurandPierre #132 4 years ago

    'Tis a shame as I was really looking forward to this one, but found the E3 stuff underwhelming and this preview makes it sound even worse.

    It's rare to see a preview this negative as a game website's goal is to create hype and hope in their previews so people will stick around to see how it all pans out. Even if they know a game is cack, they'll still say plenty of nice things so people won't lose interest altogether. But to see a preview this negative about a game this big must mean there's something seriously messed up about this game.

  • makeamazing #133 4 years ago

    Well as Ive said previously - I will reserve my judgement until the game is reviewed.

    But tell me this... what would you think of the preview if the game ends up with 8/10....?

  • frugtkompot #134 4 years ago

    Thank you, EuroGamer, for reminding me why I come to this site instead of GameSpot, IGN or other "large gaming sites".

    I had my hopes up for Fallout 3, but all the hype and my own anticipations taken into consideration, I'm very pleased that EG writes an honest review in this case, rathern than just going for a neutral or positive preview. I find it a sad tendency in general nowadays, when gaming sites always feel obliged to write positive or neutral reviews. IGN, as an example, are always very detailed, but in my experience, they tend to avoid providing an honest opinion.

    Thank you EuroGamer, once again - let's hope Bethesda sees it the same way, and takes the opportunity to fix what can be done better, before release.

  • razio #135 4 years ago

    I remember playing the demo of the first Fallout and getting high expectations from it. It felt good, and it only took half hour to feel that way. So i guess it would be possible to successfully show Fallout 3 in 30 minutes (and that was probably what happened...).

    Even if i wanted to see the world, i wouldn't even be able to leave the city. This time i'll just stay in the vault and let someone else go to the wasteland. The water chip is fine and we have a G.E.C.K. if it's nedded.

  • Megalodon #136 4 years ago

    I really don't intend to bash, afterall, Eurogamer is my most appreciated gaming-centric web-magazine.

    However, from the first paragraphs of striking at Bethesda marketing techniques (as if that has anything to do with the game), down to the last paragraph, I cannot seem to shake the feeling that the preview just feels completely biased, as if Oli simply WANTED to dislike this game from the get-go and was merely looking for excuses to do so, heavily nitpicking at every single nonsense along the way. Perhaps it was done from a professional standpoint by simply intending to be different than the rest of the dumb hype-machine choir on the internet, perhaps due to a personal feeling towards Bethesda 'ravaging the franchise', but either way, and even though I agree with a few of your qualms, this preview seems like a very superficial and lackluster take on a simple 30 min. hands-on at an expo.
    Edited by 2 at 27/07/08 @ 10:02

  • ExplodingClown #137 4 years ago

    @Kreydon

    "Also, there is a subtle difference between the death animations in Fallout and splatter. Some might miss it.*
    *That's a double entendre."

    Er, pardon my asking... how is that a double entendre? Wouldn't make it into a Carry On film on first appraisal. Regarding splatter it could be argued that it's only gratuituous when it becomes the entire purpose of the game, a la Soldier of Fortune 1 & 2, rather than a feature that the game could get by without; and only offensive when it joins pointless nudity, unconvincing swearing (I'm looking at you, Kane & Lynch), drink/drug references and general adolescent crassness as justification for a 'Mature' label, rather than anything genuinely mature like difficult issues, complex storylines or moral ambivalence. For myself, after a rough day at work I'm all for some really cathartic bloodletting.

    I would agree with your querying bengray66's assertion of his fanboy status, as I suspect 'enthusiast' would be a better label. After all, isn't fanboyism about minutiae, nitpicking, rigorous obsession with what constitutes 'canon' and howling, accusatory denunciations of any deviation from it? Social incompetence and poor personal hygiene optional.

    The baser elements do linger in the mind from F1 & F2 (porn fluffer in Reno, anyone?) but so do the spectacular/striking moments. For me that's Harold's childhood memories of the start of the War, the Master's good intentions gone awry, the departure of the Poseidon Tanker for the Enclave rig... I could go on and on, but the point is I never saw any of those prior to playing through the game. Proof of the pudding, etc etc.

    As far as the 'violence or alternative solution' decision trees, isn't that how more or less every RPG works? I'd like to see Fallout 3 emulate 'The Witcher', which provided some very unexpected and morally difficult ramifications to some seemingly obvious choices, but generally it's aggressive vs. non-aggressive, though sometimes you'll get to switch sides or pull the Fistful of Dollars option to play parties off against each other. I'm straining to recall any RPG which didn't in some way, shape or form stick to this pattern. Stealth characters often get to complete tasks in sneaky ways but otherwise isn't it usually talk or fight?

    I wholly agree that these things live or die on the quality of the writing: but then that's how BioWare manage to constantly get away with constantly providing three dialogue options which cause you to come across as either Pol Pot, Mother Theresa or an indifferent courier signing for a parcel - the stories are good and the characterisation rich and consistent.

    @Megalodon: I don't set much stock by Oli Welsh, if truth be told. During his recent Diablo III piece he wholly swallowed Blizzard's line that NO-ONE else had been doing isometric click-and-kill (what we oldies used to call 'arcade adventures'), thus completely overlooking the perfectly excellent Titan Quest, which improved considerably on Blizzards carpal-tunnel-a-thon and featured much, like the ragdoll corpses, that Blizzard were touting as ZOMG NEW! Considering the sad closure of Iron Lore, that omission was either ignorance, sloppy oversight or sycophantic assent. Neither is a recommendation in a professional journalist. Wish Charlie Brooker was still reviewing for PC Zone....

  • Darkbeat #138 4 years ago

    Well... I've jumped on the hype wagon myself. I hope that it will turn out to be similar to the old games and while I expect a lot of kids to jump on because they think it's Halo with nukes, I am looking very much forward to it for it's other bits... The RPG parts and the game world.

  • Silvervein #139 4 years ago

    After some thought I decided to include a link to a youtube video showing game that fallout 3 *is* a sequal to.
    It even contains weapons showcased during fallout 3 E3 presentation.

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=mVAyhlgYSc4
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=mVAyhlgYSc4
    [/link]

    It is humorous in a way, and illustrates difference between core elements of fallout 1/2 and 3.

    PS. Thank you for pointing that out, makeamazing. Hopefully it will work now.
    Edited by 3 at 27/07/08 @ 23:28

  • makeamazing #140 4 years ago

    You need to remove the html break characters at the end of the link, otherwise it wont work
    Edited by 2 at 27/07/08 @ 22:21

  • local_celebrity #141 4 years ago

    Given the drought of anything to look forward to, I had high hopes for this title, but this preview has dashed them.

    Even so, I just wanna applaud Oli Welsh for having the guts to write what he truly felt about the game - and Eurogamer for having the guts to publish it.

    This site is easily the most honest out there. Apart from the fiasco of Bramwell Assassin's Creed review (high score yet terrible write-up), this is one of the only sites I know that'll stick its neck out on AAA releases.

  • bonker #142 4 years ago

    Guns *yawn*

    Can't they drop this and get the follow-up to Oblivion started already FFS??

  • Feral #143 4 years ago

    Oli Welsh's preview of Fallout 3 reminds me of a preview written over 10 years ago about a little game called, Daggerfall. Everyone, including myself, were so hyped up about this game. (I even pre-ordered a special edition for $100.) We had been waiting for almost four years for Daggerfall to come out and all the other other previews praised Daggerfall except for this one.

    The horrible preview pointed out Daggerfall's glaring shortcomings like cookie cutter towns, crashes and lack of a coherent story. The masses didn't believe it and slam blasted this previewer with tons of hate mail and forum comments. Well, he was right. I ended up playing Daggerfall for about a week before giving up on it and sending it to my friend. (I played Oblivion, though, almost every day for 2 years!)

    I am going to buy Fallout 3 the day it comes out but I do hope beyond hope that Mr. Welsh is wrong and that only 30 minutes of playing the demo doesn't show what the actual game is capable of.

    Feral MarshBlood
    Nashville, TN
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/08 @ 14:30

  • darc #144 4 years ago

    "I'd like to see Fallout 3 emulate 'The Witcher'..."

    Oh please God, not that!

  • Feral #145 4 years ago

    Of course, how can you ignore all these accolades? Either Oli is the most brilliant game reviewer in the world or all these other guys are smoking pot.



    07.28.08 - Fallout 3 Wins Big at IGN E3 Awards

    Fallout 3 won Overall Best Game of Show of E3 2008 from IGN as well as Best Console Game, Best overall RPG, Best Overall Xbox 360 Game, Best Overall PS3 Game, Best PC RPG, Best Xbox 360 RPG, and Best PS3 RPG. Voodoo Extreme awarded Fallout 3 with Game of Show, Best Console RPG, and Best Console Game, and 1Up.com named Fallout 3 the Best RPG of E3 2008.
    07.25.08 - Fallout 3 Demonstration

    IGN has posted a 16-minute gameplay presentation of Fallout 3 by Todd Howard.
    07.25.08 - New Previews

    BBC News includes Fallout 3 among their E3: The Best Games on Show list. New previews are also up at USA Today and Total PlayStation.
    07.24.08 - New Fallout 3 Screenshots

    We've released twelve new screenshots in the Art section.
    07.24.08 - E3 Awards

    GameSpy has awarded Fallout 3 with Overall Runner-up, Xbox 360 Game of Show, and PS3 Game of Show, saying, "After spending an hour with the game, we feel like we've only seen the tip of the iceberg. We can't wait to dive back in." Fallout 3 also won Best of Show from SCRAWL and a Silver Award from Gamepro.
    07.24.08 - More E3 Fallout 3 Previews

    WorthPlaying has posted a preview of Fallout 3 stating, "Fallout 3 is quite possibly the best game at E3 this year ...". Electric Playground, Gaming Trend, Totally 360, Gamervision, Gamer 2.0, NxGamers, and The Hachiko have also posted previews.
    07.23.08 - Fallout 3 Wins Game of Show from PlanetXbox360

    Planet Xbox 360 named Fallout 3 Game of Show and said, "After putting nearly an hour into the game it was the one title that we talked about the entire way back to the office, this game is going to be epic in proportions and there should not be a gamer out there that has not went to their local game shop and put down the money for a pre-order." Additionally, the New York Times, 411Mania, and GamePro.fr have posted previews of Fallout 3.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/08 @ 19:03

  • demize2010 #146 4 years ago



    Sorry Oli but I have to ask, did you like or even play the original fallouts?

    I just can't help but get the feeling your writing from ignorance.

    I'm not saying your wrong, I haven't played the game yet, but your opinion is a very stark contrast to say the CVG preview

    [link url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=19 3691
    ]http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...[/link]

    Which manages to go into far greater depth, relating all the time back to the classics that resulted in the title being Fallout 3 and not Obvlivion 1.5 + Gun Mod...

    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic." - Yes it isn't high humor, but it is in keeping with the franchise.

    "if its adolescent focus on creative brutality doesn't quite sit right with the game's overall tone." - *Cough* Please refer to fallout 1 + 2 and reevaluate that comment...

    As far as I'm aware the game isn't ready for release yet, so a few problems with object and ground collision is not a killer.

    The world is meant to be grim and brown and not very nice... it's fallout.

    Oh and to continue your witty remarks of "falling out" and "nuclear winter" I'd just like to say, it looks like feral's last comment leaves only your shadow behind...

  • Silvervein #147 4 years ago

    @demize2010
    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic." - Yes it isn't high humor, but it is in keeping with the franchise.

    I agree about it not being high humour, but I'd like you to give some examples showing how is it in keeping with fallout 1/2 (and not just fallout: brotherhood of steel)

    "if its adolescent focus on creative brutality doesn't quite sit right with the game's overall tone." - *Cough* Please refer to fallout 1 + 2 and reevaluate that comment...

    It's interesting observation. I did play fallout 2 four days ago and for some reason, I didn't notice that main focus of that game was gory deaths. Maybe my version was censored, and deaths were replaced with interesting dialogues, meaningful choices and good story.

    As far as I'm aware the game isn't ready for release yet, so a few problems with object and ground collision is not a killer.

    If I watch a tech demo of a game scheduled to release in 3 years from presentation, problems like that are indeed easy to forgive.
    When I see those problems in a demo of a game that's scheduled for release in less than 63 days (or so), where game should be ready and only changes should concern cosmetic things, then it makes me think that either release date is going to be pushed back, or that game will be released in rather buggy state with heavy patching to follow. Not exactly a desirable start, for any game.

    PS.
    Majority of the awards cited by feral were given by console magazines. I readily agree that in terms of console game it might be a hit, since console market is geared towards action games and fallout 3 follows the suit, offering a lot of action, pixelated gore and light roleplaying (gaining experience, levelling up, gathering loot, character customization, minor dialogue options).
    However, in terms of PC roleplaying game , where it has to fill the shoes of both fallout 1/2, as well as many other good roleplaying games (planescape:torment comes to mind) fallout 3 seems to be distinctly lacking in the roleplaying department.




    Edited by 3 at 28/07/08 @ 21:53

  • VMerken #148 4 years ago

    Silvervein: "It's interesting observation. I did play fallout 2 four days ago and for some reason, I didn't notice that main focus of that game was gory deaths. Maybe my version was censored, and deaths were replaced with interesting dialogues, meaningful choices and good story."

    Perhaps Feral played IN less than 4. :)

    Anyway, I think Feral's point is valid, because next to the "good" stuff you're alluding to, do not forget that there also is a large part of Bloody Mess, Jinxed, New Reno, Kama Sutra Master, Shotgun Weddings, "colourful" use of language from certain characters, etc etc. I for one like these elements being there because this is a postnuclear world - just look where political correctness (and politics) brought everyone. I expect people being more "raw" after The Fallout, so its presence is good, not to mention increases the game's possibilities and moralities as well which boosts replayability.
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 21:55

  • Silvervein #149 4 years ago

    @vmerken
    I agree that showing the brutal side of life in a setting such as fallout does increase the fun. Not more, and not less than other elements though, such as stories, mission, general freedom to do almost everything.
    Speaking of rough elements though...As you mentioned yourself, New Reno, certain skills you could develop there (at the golden globes, specifically), as well as 'colorful language' were part of the fallout 2.
    In case of fallout 3, it seems that the only aspect present in game, and extensively showcased during every presentation, is gory deaths. And judging by the news and interviews with development team members, most of the 'questionable' elements of fallout 2 were cut out of fallout 3.
    Example. There is supposed to be somewhere, in the game, a...lady of ill repute, shall we say. However, she will not, under any circumstances, offer her services to the player, citing he's 'too young'. Other than being plain ridiculous in the post apocalyptic world, it shows that even elements from fallout 1 (supposedly inspiration for fallout 3) are being cut out (reference: there was also a lady of the night in fallout 1, but there, she had no qualms about 'working' with player character.
    While unpleasant ways of leaving this world were part of fallout 1/2, they were by no means either most important element of the game, nor its selling point. Unlike fallout 3, which seems to put undue focus on them...and ONLY them. At least judging by falout 3 presentations and news.
    Edited by 1 at 30/07/08 @ 01:20

  • kangarootoo #150 4 years ago

    Jesus, someone writes something negative about a game and half the fans lay an egg.

    "Either Oli is the most brilliant game reviewer in the world or all these other guys are smoking pot"

    How exactly would you define a brilliant game reviewer? By checking to see whether or not they agree with everyone else? I think you have game reviewer confused with photocopier.

    As for having played Fallout 1 and 2, I'm not really sure that is relevant. This game is neither, it is a brand new game. Seemed to me that Oli was calling the shots as he saw them. I am a huge fan of the FO series, but I wouldn't sit there looking at a game and think "yeah, the real time combat sucks, but I'll forgive it because the real time combat in Fallout 2 was shit (i.e. not there) too".

    I actually thought he was pretty even handed. He made repeated reference to the fact that character and story are strong aspects of FO, and that he hadn't had a chance to check those out properly, and was giving them the benefit of the doubt on that basis.

    No amount of Fallout love, or "understanding of the series" should take a pair of eyes looking at a shonky animation and make them think they are looking at gold in motion. That is just blind fandom, and much as I am a fan of FO, I'm not a blind fan. And it sounds as though neither is Oli.

    Its just Fallout 3, its not your mum, so don't take it all so personally people.

  • VMerken #151 4 years ago

    Silvervein: Speaking of rough elements though...As you mentioned yourself, New Reno, certain skills you could develop there (at the golden globes, specifically), as well as 'colorful language' were part of the fallout 2.

    Roughness is also part of Fallout 1, the tone there was a lot darker even.

    In case of fallout 3, it seems that the only aspect present in game, and extensively showcased during every presentation, is gory deaths. And judging by the news and interviews with development team members, most of the 'questionable' elements of fallout 2 were cut out of fallout 3.

    Of course they highlight the gore. It's what gets people's attention at presentation events, not dialogue, story and "normal" deaths they've seen a billion times before. Using the Bloody Mess perk and a gimped character which scores criticals all the time results in the best spectacle. And possibly the best sales.

    I expect Fallout 3 to contain a lot more than just gory deaths, but all the other stuff in this game will pale compared to the previous games' "richness" I talked about in the previous post.

    Example. There is supposed to be somewhere, in the game, a...lady of ill repute, shall we say. However, she will not, under any circumstances, offer her services to the player, citing he's 'too young'. Other than being plain ridiculous in the post apocalyptic world, it shows that even elements from fallout 1 (supposedly inspiration for fallout 3) are being cut out (reference: there was also a lady of the night in fallout 1, but there, she had no qualms about 'working' with player character.

    Yes, and I dislike this. It's censoring a game which is very likely to be an 18+, adult game after rating, in other words the devs are playing the politically correct "nanny", telling adults how this and that is "naughty" and shan't be shown. Also, it reduces development costs because in this type of game, these naughty possibilities would have required animations, sound effects, etc. Plus, we wouldn't want to tinker with the Oblivion engine too much, now would we? That one's perfect already, right? :)

    While unpleasant ways of leaving this world were part of fallout 1/2, they were by no means either most important element of the game, nor its selling point. Unlike fallout 3, which seems to put undue focus on them...and ONLY them. At least judging by falout 3 presentations and news.

    I fully agree, but that's for the players to discover when the game is released.

    Kangarootoo: As for having played Fallout 1 and 2, I'm not really sure that is relevant. This game is neither, it is a brand new game. Seemed to me that Oli was calling the shots as he saw them. I am a huge fan of the FO series, but I wouldn't sit there looking at a game and think "yeah, the real time combat sucks, but I'll forgive it because the real time combat in Fallout 2 was shit (i.e. not there) too".

    Yes, and of course then a majority of readers will attach actual weight to that kind of analysis. I mean, back when Mario Galaxy was released, I could call out and share "the shots" too while the game was being showed :). Credibility, or something like that.

    I actually thought he was pretty even handed. He made repeated reference to the fact that character and story are strong aspects of FO, and that he hadn't had a chance to check those out properly, and was giving them the benefit of the doubt on that basis.

    Your opinion. Respect.

    No amount of Fallout love, or "understanding of the series" should take a pair of eyes looking at a shonky animation and make them think they are looking at gold in motion. That is just blind fandom, and much as I am a fan of FO, I'm not a blind fan. And it sounds as though neither is Oli.

    Your opinion. My opinion. Oli's opinion. Respect.

    Then again, animation in MGS4 was a lot better than that of FO3 so I'm not sure if Oli attaches that much weight to animation in video games. Or whether he attaches weight to it consistently.

    Its just Fallout 3, its not your mum, so don't take it all so personally people.

    Yet here we are :). By the way, I think most of the critics will be silenced if Bethesda would just rename this game to "Oblivion with Guns", and not treat it as a worthy successor of the previous games.
    Edited by 2 at 30/07/08 @ 19:28

  • makeamazing #152 4 years ago

    Ive never played FO1 or 2, but am looking forward to this game.. I wonder if that is allowed? ;) Though I have just ordered the originals cheap off amazon.

    Look I think people are taking it far too seriously. Most sites have given it positive previews, while one person has given it average preview. I'm pretty much ok with that for now, got the game on order, who cares. The game apparently has 100+ hours of gameplay, I personally dont think 30 minutes is enough. A game like this pulls you in. I really liked Oblivion (though closing all the gates got a bit boring)... but I still played it for many hours.

    Wait for the reviews, i personally think people will say it is a classic with faults... but with a game this big, what do people expect?

  • sajuuk #153 4 years ago

    "Lady Killer gives you extra damage against female enemies, and "unique dialogue options" when talking to female NPCs. Sorry, Bethesda, that's not satirical, it's just crass and misogynistic."

    I guess you've never played the other fallout games, (edit: They were full of this kind of humor, it's not just bethsda. It's nice to get a a level headed review from someone who is not a raging fanboy) not only that but if it was "Mankiller" I'd put money down that the perk would be "awesome" and "extremely handy"

    Other than that, I agree with the rest of the preview.

    Edited for clarity.
    Edited by 2 at 31/07/08 @ 03:59

  • AaronTurner #154 4 years ago

    Ahh the old back up your argument with fictional quotes trick.

  • kangarootoo #155 4 years ago

    On the subject of the Lady Killer perk, I'm not really sure that referencing previous versions of Fallout is much of an excuse. Fallout 1 and 2 aren't the bible, they are just games. What might have been appropriate then (or more likely, equally as inappropriate, but with a more nerdy, immature, bloke-centric audience that thought it was funny) doesn't necessarily stand now.

    I don't want to get things out of proportion here. Its not the End of Days and I will still buy the game. But defending such an inclusion on the basis that the series (apparently) has a history of mysoginy is no real defense at all. Its akin to saying its ok to be a member of the BNP, because the British Empire has a great tradition of being mean (understatement) to less developed countries.

  • Feral #156 4 years ago

    kangarootoo: "How exactly would you define a brilliant game reviewer? By checking to see whether or not they agree with everyone else? I think you have game reviewer confused with photocopier."


    I wasn't saying that going against the grain or with the grain makes a brilliant game reviewer. I was saying that 95% of the previews coming in are positive about Fallout 3 and if Oli's preview turns out to be the way Fallout 3 is then the man is number one in my book because he has played the game and has somehow (brilliantly) deduced that the game is not worth buying even though 95% of his cohorts beg to differ.

    Here, let me help you out even more. Everyone said the Earth was flat. Columbus said it was round. Do you remember the names of all those people saying the Earth was flat?

    Happy gaming!

    Edited by 2 at 31/07/08 @ 15:26

  • hanako #157 4 years ago

    Lady Killer / Man Eater perk - Does anyone know what these 'special dialog options' actually are?

    If they consist of being extra insulting to women/men because your character hates them and likes to hurt them, I don't think that's a problem. Srsly, I have no problem with calling someone a bitch if I'm playing a mean character.

    If they consist of various NPCs hating you because you're a violent bastard who beats up on girls/boys, I don't think that's a problem. That's just a reputation badge.

    What I'm creeped out about is the possibility that they're using the traditional definition of ladykiller and making you better at hitting ON girls and also HITTING girls. That's just plain icky, in my book.

  • kangarootoo #158 4 years ago

    @Feral

    The thing is, Oli didn't make any firm recommendations about whether anyone should buy the game or not. Nobody out there can form a final opinion, because the game isn't complete, so how can ANY of the more positive previews out there be any more or less valid.

    There is an old adage about 10 people discovering an elephant in a dark room for the first time, and when asked what it is, they each give a different opinion (its a tree trunk, its a snake, etc).

    Oli played a section of the game and commented specifically on what he saw. And based on the words he used to describe what he saw, I tend to think he was right in his summary. He also pointed out the parts of the title that he hadn't seen, which historically have been strong parts of the Fallout experience (such as character development, character interaction and story).

    To take your analogy, everyone said the world was flat, whereas Columbus stood on the beach and said "Hmmm, its a bit soggy though and my sandals are ruined".