Fable II Post-Mortem Comments by Christian Donlan

NOTHING on its stability, predictably. What a joke.

I recommended this game to a friend, reguardless of all the crashes, and although he loves it, he's done nothing but moan. He asks, and rightly so, "why did they release this in this state?"

It runs a lot smoother if you install it on HD.

1 save slot coupled with aprox. 5-10 gamebreaking bugs = epic failure.

I LOVED Fable II, I thought it was amazing. As for the dog, yes, I chose to put the needs of the many before my own. But now I am really missing him. I wish I could now travel Albion, hunting down all the people who I brought back to live, and then killing them, and once they're all dead again, I can get my doggy back!

And, touch wood, apart from one freeze, I haven't encountered any bugs whatsoever.

As for the quest with the ghost and his ex-lover, I did feel that we should have had the option of warning him/her what the ghost had in mind, or being able to persuade the ghost not to go through with his plan in the first place. But on the other hand, I never thought of marrying her and then simply killing her in front of the ghost. Great stuff.

Can't wait for the downloadable content!

"Or which two simple things could have improved the co-op?"

1. Remove co-op completely, since it's an unneeded feature in such a game.
2. Use the wasted development time on co-op to fix a broken game.

And even though he feels the lack of a battle at the end is a good design choice, Fable II is still lacking in any real boss battle challenge to recommend it over the likes of Zelda.

"What people haven't realised yet is this thing about Theresa: who is she?"

Those of us who played Fable and have not suffered horrific and disabling brain-damage as a result have realised that she's sister of that game's main character.

Those people who didn't play Fable, on the other hand, know that she's the final boss of a Fable 2 expansion or sequel.

Once again, a game which will want money from me to see the "real" ending. Worse, a game that will force me to purchase non-rentable, non-resaleable DLC in order to do so, when Fable 2 is quite plainly a rental/budget/second-hand game.
Balls to that.

@Petulant Radish

Peter Molyneux:
"For years and years, the same television programs came on. Then out of the blue you had Lost and Dexter, and TV was where it was at."

You may not have said that "Lost" revolutionised TV, but PM certainly implies it with the above statement. He's saying that "Lost" came along and changed things. The fact is that "Lost" did not introduce anything particularly novel to the world of narrative television (its success remains its most enduring achievement). It was NOT the first show to introduce a series-long story arc, as evidenced by shows such as 24, The Wire, Twin Peaks and The Sopranos. It was in fact these very shows (with the exception of the Wire, which was viewed by about 7 people) that changed the face of television and led to a climate where something with the cinematic ambition (and budget) of Lost was considered viable. His comment is a sweeping, ill-informed generality with little basis in broadcast-historical fact. And how "Dexter" ever made it into a comment like that is beyond me.

Note:
Ratings-wise Lost hasn't scored much higher than the above shows, averaging approximately 11million viewers in its last season (its career high was 16million for S1). Twin Peaks Season 1 averaged 14million viewers back in 1990. Sopranos scored highs of 13/14million (an extraordinary achievement for a cable show), as did 24.

Well, apologies to the FII fanboys in here but for me FII was one of the most disappointing gaming experiences I've ever had.

For sure I had *some* fun but I gotta say that the only lasting memories I have of the game are getting very loved-up with my new wifey who very shortly got capped along with my dog due to the 'ending' that I chose.

F*CKING GUTTED!!!

At that point I stopped playing the game and I'll never go back to it.

I'll never buy the DLC.

I'll never play another PM game.


I've never been to Lionhead and know nothing about them other than the PM stuff but speaking as a dev myself, they are clearly dominated entirely by PM and I imagine that their team is a mix of very young (40yrs) people. This likely being due to the glass-ceiling that is PM himself. People who aren't up to much (or who are extremely well paid) won't care and will be there forever (>40yrs), people who have something about them will likely feel constrained by PM's dominance and will move on to stretch themselves, hence the 25-40 gap which is when most people do their best work .........

I could be wrong but I bet I'm not ...

Fable II was such a failure that xplay from G4 TV named it their game of the year. What does that say for every other game released this year, huh?

Suck on that, newbs! :P

This game turned me into a lesbian polygamist. Ban this sick filth!

(Well, alright, I turned my *character* into a lesbian polygamist. Ban this sick mind!)

"What does that say for every other game released this year, huh? "

It says that was someone's opinion?

Personally I really enjoyed most of the side quests and the sodding around but I thought the story itself really wasn't up to much. It's all very well saying the game offers you choices but it often offers you bad black or white choices. What about Alex? Break his/her heart or marry him/her - Er...what about just saying "hey there's this ghost that trying to screw you over. I'm just off to 'exorcise' her..."

Or the thing with the Shadow guythat a certain character has a deal with? Another crap black or white choice. Or when you get back to town and it's being attacked. I wanted to say 'screw you, you evill bastard' and go and help the townspeople. Would it let me? Er, nope! Maybe it was a lost cause but it should have been my choice if the game was living up to it's ideals.

And the big choice; Why the hell should I be forced to conform to such a ridiculously specific wish when there a so many ways to get around it. Even if it was just Theresa exerting her power over you, how come you never ever get the chance to question that.

Fable 2 does a lot of things right but some people seem to consider it heresy to criticize the game at all.

"It says that was someone's opinion?"

lol, I know...was just messing with people. It's probably more than just one person's opinion at the station, though. I'm sure they had to come to some sort of consensus.

There are definitely valid complaints against the game, but I don't know if I've ever seen the gaming community get more nitpicky over anything before. "I couldn't do "x" with so and so!" Like, big deal...get over it and enjoy the game for what you CAN do with it, which is plenty. If you give people too many options, suddenly it's not enough - and if you give them none, it's more than plenty.

Let me see...Since Dungeon Keeper and Populous series, Peter Molyneux motto was: we are promissing much and deliver next to nothing...The Movies ended up asa a crippled game, with the gamer being too damn busy pampering the actors and managing the studio, and not having enough time to do the Movies?! Fable2 felt like a bad JRPG ripoff, but with no appeal whatsoever. Black and White was just Populous in a new form??? So what so great about Peter Molyneux in our days??? I just don't get it.

It think the 'problem' is made worse by a certain individual telling us about how we can play the exact game we want to play. It really frustrating in a game that promises freedom to be forced to make an extremely artificial choice between to a couple of equally bad options when there are so many other obvious solutions.

I think what I'm saying is the game's good points make the bad points worse:)

I must be the only one who chose to keep the dog... just seemed like the right thing to do, save people? No thanks, i was never given the impression that i should have. If i didnt take the dog i would have certainly took the money.

So lavalant, you completed it twice and yet it has no replay value?

Um...

"It think the 'problem' is made worse by a certain individual telling us about how we can play the exact game we want to play."

I think what happens there is that this "certain someone" says something and people interpret it in a number of different ways, when at its core the comment was completely valid. I've seen a lot of complaints about how much towns change and how much they "believed" PM said they would - and how the two don't match. Well, PM said towns would change based on your actions and they do just that. It's a LOT more superficial than what he led us to believe, but at its core the statement is absolutely true. There's a LOT of that going around with Fable II, but that's probably to be expected when any developer talks as much about a game as PM did with Fable II.

At its core, you can absolutely play the game exactly how you want to, and certain actions definitely affect the world around you. That doesn't mean every single little thing you do has a direct affect on the world, though - or that you can do absolutely anything you could imagine. I don't think he'd be dumb enough to make a claim like that, especially if he knows the types of things the gaming community would likely do with those options. :P Do yourself a favor and if you decide to run through the game again, forget everything PM said you'd be able to do and just play the game for what it is. I think you'll enjoy it a lot more. Because despite this or that shortcoming based on PM's comments, there's still a very good game there.

In the UK, where I am, 'Post-Mortem' is generally only used for the meaning of a medical examination of a dead body. As it's not the subtitle of the game, did the game die at retail?

(You learn something new every day. Another meaning is 'An analysis or review of a finished event' which is similar, in a general way, to the other definition).

When are Eurogamer going to stop trying to flog Lionhead's desultory games on here? The level of blatant cock sucking needs to be brought to someone's attention, it's immoral having stuff like this on the net with impressionable folk about.

Did I see DLC1 mentioned? Can we assume there will be a DLC2?

Wow, having a single save slot completely changed the game for me - and it was just a GUI issue?

Since I felt miserable after my dog sacrifice I went out on a bender, ate pies until I had a massive gut, got head to toe tats, and finished the rest of the quests with nothing but tasseled pink hotpants and a cleaver. And I was a huge celebrity so I could sleep with anyone, kill anyone, whatever I wanted. And sure enough, after a while I started to feel better!

If I'd had the option at the time, I would have taken back my sacrifice, but now I'm glad I didn't.

@ jstar "10/10 Eurogamer? Seriously - shame on you. Scores like this only reinforce the view that video games are immature and unsophisticated. They could be so, so much more".

I totally agree with you, I have enjoyed some moments but 10/10 for Fable2 is simply dishonest to say the least. And as far as Lionhead goes, first and LAST game for me. Peter, why don't you spend less time talking and more in delivering, you git.

I'm about two thirds through the game, so I skipped the paragraphs with spoilers as soon as they looked spoilery (you could have simply highlighted those paragraphs, the rest is safe.) For the same reason, I must skip most of this comments section.

I just want to say that what I'd change about Fable 2 aren't the big design decisions, but rather lots and lots of little annoyances with the menus, which don't seem like much, but they all add up to a pretty bad RPG menu. I'll give some examples, which I wish Peter Molyneux could read:

- When I am browsing for new weapons at a weapons vendor, I'd like to see the stats of my currently-held weapons side-by-side. As it is, I always think, "Gah, I can't remember what my current weapons are like," and I have to back out of the trader screens, go into my menus and look at my weapons, then start trading again.

- I tend to take experience potions in batches of 4 (because I tend to buy them in batches of 4). But every time I take one potion, it sends me back to the game world, and I have to go all through the menus again for each potion. Annoying! Why can't I do multiple things in the menus, which then queue up and get executed at the same time when I leave the menus?

- Mapping is very poor. All you get is a minimap in the pause menu, which is too small to show many icons (no houses owned, marital homes, etc). No world map whatsoever besides background art, so you can't get a good sense of where each town is in relation to each other.

- Here's my solution: the Back button does nothing. Who ever heard of an RPG that doesn't need the Back button for something! So I think the Back button should have called up a full-screen area map, hi-res and large enough to show more icons about your owned businesses and homes. Also, warp selection should have been a visual world map instead of a text list of places.

- When I buy hairstyles, makeup or tattoos, an abstract card is not enough to show me what it will be like. I want a preview on my character model. Expecially for tattoos -- you've got no idea what they will look like, and they cost about 500 gold to remove.

- The main thing Fable 2 needed was LESS CRITICAL BUGS. I've never seen such a high profile game released with so many serious bugs. Personally I suffered from a message at the top of the screen telling me about buying furniture from furniture shops, which wouldn't go away for hours. But many other people got their game totally broken. And with only one save slot, that's unforgivable. I'm thinking Fable 2 should have been held back until Q1 2009.

- One small thing. I had an average fight with some bandits at Bower Lake, not paying much attention to my dog. I assumed he was lagging behind. When I got to Bowerstone, a guard casually said, "Why do you even bother carrying on, now your dog's dead?" And I thought, "WTF, my dog's DEAD?" He apparently died in a very average battle at a very average point in the game, and the game didn't even bother to tell me when it happened! I would have expected a screen to pause things and say, "Your dog has died, press A to continue" or something. But nope, I had to hear it from a frigging Bowerstone guard 10 minutes later. I quit and reloaded, and lost about half an hour of gaming. Chewie still lives! (For now... I know there's a spoiler I couldn't avoid).


Hope *somebody* read this long post.

@squeakyg

How did you manage to completely ignore your dog to the point where it died?

I didn't think it was possible for your dog to die. I loved Fable II though (as I've already said), but I do agree with some of the good ideas that people have had about possible improvements. Using the BACK button to bring up a proper map would be a great idea. I can never get a clear idea of exactly where everything is in relation to other places in Fable II.

I think Fable 2 is great, I'm on my second play though and greatly looking forward to some DLC. Hopefully there's going to be several lots throughout the year.

Goty for me.

Interesting interview but the lack of follow-up questions is infuriating. Just as an example, Molyneux talks about DLC1 but the interviewer doesn't then ask the obvious question about DLC2 - what is it? when's it coming? The whole thing almost reads like an email interview when the video proves it wasn't!

I thought your dog could only be injured, not killed, in general play? He would always catch up eventually, even if he was limping along really slowly.

I find it really weird that so many people have suffered so much with bugs and stability when I can't remember the game crashing or being otherwise buggy at all. Considering we're all using basically the same hardware to play it, that's just odd.

I completely agree with squeakyg's comments about the inventory. Drinking multiple potions was a needless chore.

I also find it fascinating that so many people can wind themselves up to the point where they have so much emotion over the game getting/deserving 10/10.

Personally I really liked it. After completing it, I might have given it 9. All that means to me is that the reviewer liked it a bit more than me. What's to get upset about?

The game is great, but the story should have been more "epic". Fable I plot was more intense and with better moments, Fable II's is a bit lacking on that.

The game is great, but the story should have been more "epic". Fable I plot was more intense and with better moments, Fable II's is a bit lacking on that.

"The main problem with fable is that the storytelling is absolutely appauling. The story itself is so bog standard and simple it's embarrassing. Peter Molyneux and his team have showed once again their total lack of understanding of narative and the way stories work. They spend millions of pounds and man hours on perfecting moss in stone walls and skip over the thing that could elevate their games righ to the top.

I was so dissapointed with Fable it is untrue. A wonderfully designed world that was ultimately shallow and entirely unrewarding. I don't know why Lion Head seem to feel that NPC's that you can't interact with in any meaningful way add to the atmosphere in a world and the way quests just appeared in your log was frankly shocking. Everything about it just reminded me that this was a game, at no point did it ever feel like i was in an interesting world I wanted to discover or at the heart of a great story. I knew there WAS nothing to discover. Choices were presented to you ni such abrupt and badly thought out fashion. The shadow court is a case in point. Great idea, introduced terribly with the choice presented to you clumsy and badly thought out. The choice had no meaning. you didn't know the girl, she had never been introduced before. Even the worst novelist can tell you that is just plain bad.

Until games designers realise that they need to employ the services of serious professional writers who actually know about character development and how to tell even vaguely original stories this is going to happen time and time again."

I totally agree with this comment.

Peter is obssessive with the idea of creating a world full of interactions and decisions, but he forgets about the epic and the story. Your decisions in Fable doesn't involve you in any sentimental way. The quests just appear in your log and they have nothing to do with the main quest

I think your character should talk, the story should be longer and better developed, and the should work on the immersion (the game can't make you care about your companions because you don't interact with them...)

Great ideas, but no so well developed... PM should try to mix Fable's ideas with Fallout 3 development par example. Fallout 3 has lots of "world changing" decisions and the quests work well and aren't repetitive, the main quest is quite good (not superb, but quite good)..

@Frosty840

"Once again, a game which will want money from me to see the "real" ending"

Oh come on, the ending on Fable 2 was perfectly complete. Knowing that something else may follow down the line is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure nobody stormed out of the first Star Wars film complaining that they were going to have to visit the cinema again to see the "real ending".

If you didn't like Fable 2 then fair enough, but lets not start just inventing problems where they don't exist.

If they stick a traditional boss battle in the end of the DLC I for one will be gutted. I actually got near to the end of F2 and thought "shite, this feels like I'm getting to the end, there will probably be a shit boss battle now" and I was werll pleased to discover that wasn't the case.


And for the general record, I had not ONE single crash, freeze or bug of any type. I have the game installed to HDD, which may make a difference. I realise I am just one individual with an anecdotal story to tell, but I don't really buy the majority of people suffering freezes and so on. Yet again I just think it is the vocal minority.



"- When I am browsing for new weapons at a weapons vendor, I'd like to see the stats of my currently-held weapons side-by-side. As it is, I always think, "Gah, I can't remember what my current weapons are like," and I have to back out of the trader screens, go into my menus and look at my weapons, then start trading again. "

+1 (and for your potions comment)
Their menu system could have done with a fair bit of sorting out actually, and didn't PM say it was all a bit last minute?

BACK should always be map. Its just the way of things in RPG land. Like the sun rising and setting each day. I agree that BACK doing nothing just felt all.... wrong :)

I didn't know the dog could die during normal play. That seems bizarre. Are you sure the dog was actually gone? Had he fallen off a cliff or something?

As much as i loved all bullfrogs creations...
Magic Carpet, Populous and Dungeon Keeper where all absolute all time classic amazing games.
Peter and his new team have been on a downward slope since black & white.
His hype and disapoint started with B&W and has continued with every game since.

@kaya08:
"My main problem with it was neither of the other options was of comparable value to having a dog. Like if the evil option was to get a godly sword and the good option was to get a healing spell or something, sure that would be a worthwhile option."

Personally, I agree with you. For me personally, It wasn't too hard a decision -- I had been landlording my kiester off, so the cash held no interest, knocking the call down to the "moral" and the "gratifying". Normally, I'd choose moral, but (a) I liked my doggy (which I wasn't expecting, since in reality I'm a cat person) and wanted my sister back (and if she isn't in some of the DLC I'm gonna BEAT Mr. Moly to death -- I was promised ALL my loved ones would return, and I get a bloody "thxfortheresurectioncusoon" note!?!?); and (b) I was actually hoping for some negative karma at that point, since I'd played the rest of the game so squeaky-clean nice that when I went exploring around Bowerstone throngs would bumrush me to tell me how friggin' awesome I was . . . and in the process pin me in an alleyway or against my living room wall. Almost had to start wacking civies a few times before I realized I could fast-travel out (and to the adoring throngs of Albion . . . I appreciate your admiration, but GET THE FU@K OUT OF MY HOUSE. When I do that the guards call it Trespassing with Intent). I took the scarring for the Shadow Court quest to protect the dumb lady (amazing how she figured out how to run outside AFTER I sacrifice my good looks, but wails about being stuck there until I do), and that was just about all the "taking one for the team" self-sacrifice I was willing to put up with at that point. I think it was a brilliant bit of timing to have to make the "save Poochies" decision so soon after he died . . . if I had gone a few hours without him, I probably wouldn't have cared so much, but I was still ready to move Heaven-and-Hell at that point to get some Poochie Payback, and offering to bring him (and Rose) back was music to my ears.

Anyways, what I was trying to get at was even though the call was an easy one for me (and apparently for you), judging by the outrage of some other posters it seems pretty clear that there were plenty of people who didn't see it the same way -- alot like the screaming posts from people who . . .

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER (I don't know how to do that uber-cool "mouse over to reveal text thing") SPOILER SPOILER

. . . Finished the Castle Catacombs quest and are rewarded with the sex-change potion. Even though the game couldn't be clearer that you can either drink it now and PERMANENTLY change gender or decline and NEVER HAVE THE OPTION AGAIN (unless you go into someone else's game), there are threads on other game sites of players furious that they drank the potion, changed gender . . . and now want to change back. "Whaddaya mean I'm stuck as a guy/girl? Well, yeah, you did say it was permanent, . . . but like TOTALLY permanent?" Well, them and the one guy who didn't read too clearly and thought "sex transmogrification" meant he was going to become a transsexual, and now he's pissed because although he got the breasts he wanted he lost his external plumbing so no more sex with the wife.
ENDSPOILERENDSPOILERENDSPOILERIWISHIKNEWHOWTODOTHEMOUSEOVERS
CREENITISSOFREAKIN'COOLENDSPOILER

It apparently was a decision that is seriously impacting players . . . to the point that some apparently are refusing to play anymore. The more I read Fable2 threads on the Net, the more I'm struck by how sublimely impactful the game is turning out to be. I hated that stupid dog . . . until I realized I was willing to turn my back on thousands of victims just to play fetch with him. I took the scars from the Shadow Court . . . and the more I play, the more I see my pug-ugly visage, the more I wish I had slipped the token to the lady, despite such actions being against every instinct I have. Granted, now I look like someone that moonlights as a Mafia enforcer under the name "Lefty No-Nose" and that's a plus I'm trying to come to grips with . . . but dammit, I'm always the skinny character! I was 9th-plane-of-Hades pissed at having to run around the friggin country trying to find every piece of celery so I could at least not have a pot-belly (you'd think running several hundred miles would burn off some fat, but noooo . . . ). "Stupid design choice" I muttered. "There should be a potion". Then I realized that was exactly the point: Losing a gut is a monumental pain-in-the-ass. If I can just swig a potion or mutter an incantation, then getting fat isn't a consequence -- it's a fashion statement. Now I'm back to no gut, and as a completely unintended consequence of all my running around I'm built like a friggin' brick sh!thouse. Absolutely NOT the character I had intended to select/play, but absolutely the character I created through my actions, intended and unintended.

I've become struck with how "shallow" we as an audience have become. Where was the climatic rousing final battle, complete with John Williams score and a lazer light show? Why no massive decisions (aside arguably from the final one)? No "Save the Gelflings or or become a tyrant over the globe" decisions -- just "dick around with the dead Emo twit or . . . well, or don't." It seems like there aren't any choices, really, not the way we've become conditioned to expect them. But the more I reflect the more I recognize that there really ARE a sea of consequences to every little choice, just so subtle they pass right under my gaze.

The people in this thread complaining about the lack of "proper storytelling" . . . respectfully, mabye you're defining a "proper" narrative arc in an entirely inapplicable way. The "main quest" is completely irrevelant to the actual story. Do you rescue slaves or slaughter? Who did you laughingly pick up for a casual matress-dance . . . and now regret (btw . . . DO NOT bang Alex the furniture store lady. Hit that one time, and if she stalks me any more obsessively I'm gonna have to see about a restraining order)? Everybody here commenting about how stupid wife/kids are (I presume because they don't "get" you much in the way of specific Super-Awesome Bonuses), I never married, no kids . . . listening to commenters complain about how much of a drag their families are sounds just like the married co-workers sitting around wishing they were single . . . as the single people wonder about what family life must be like. THATS the story, and given that he created a game that can provide you with a narrative you essentially created yourself, my hat's off to the man. Is it the Greatest Game Evar? It has flaws, sure. But darn if this isn't the first time in I-can't-remember-when an "epic" game built itself on subtlety.

EDIT
** I apologize profusely to EuroGamer and the EG community for this obscenely long post/rant/pathetic attempt to delay going back to work. Didn't mean to go on a rambling half-page musing . . . my head hangs at whiplash-inducing levels of embarassment.

Loved the game Peter. Having only one save slot made the game much more enjoyable than it would otherwise have been. For me at least. It gave the game a feeling of having a more solid narrative and placed more responsability to me on how I wanted to play the game. The evil/good choices sometimes feel a bit gimmicky, because it really does not have an impact on the main story line, but more serious choices, withouth the ability to save, will make each play through feel more like a unique experience.

It's also a bit like life, isn't it? Some may not agree, but I find that I have to start over and over on these big adventure games (oblivion/fallout) because I always feel I could have done better, leveled up smarter and all that. By having a game made for one playthorugh, you take away som choices, but the game feels more real and cohesive for me.

The bread crumbs are also fantastic, and the easy class system is a win. Although when you are master of all magics and weapons in the end, it does not feel like my character is very unique (other than being a really huge woman dressed as male royalty).

And co-op. Man, that sucked like everyone tells you.

how could you not ask him about the co-op mess? the choice they made in not allowing players existing characters join games. Or having a restricted "elastic band" camera during co-op. What was supposed to be a strong feature ended up being its weakest and feeling rushed. Why did you bottle out of having him explain that?

@mingster

Have you played Fable 2?

Great interview - Lionhead delivered with Fable 2 and Peter deserves a lot of respect for that.

@busboy33

To spoiler-bind text, see the following;

[hello] This will be invisible unless you roll over it [/hello]

Then replace hello with spoiler.

This is true, so maybe I am torn on the matter. The businessman in me doesn't want my customer to be disappointed in my product in principle, but then the... errr... well, just me... doesn't want to just pander to every mental failing (harsh way to out it, but there you go) of every gamer out there.

Once again, I don't regret not saving my dog. It was the right thing to do. I'm not experiencing loss and regret, I'm experiencing my game not being any fun to play any more. And I'm not suffering from some sort of mental failing, I was well aware of the potential consequences of sacrificing my dog, but the alternatives suggested are equally unsatisfactory.

Why didn't I just save the dog? Well, at the end of the game my character is faced with a MORAL choice. If I make that decision based on the fact that one of the options makes the game stop being fun, then I'm not making a moral choice and the decision becomes pointless. If I spend the entire game creating a certain character and then at the last suddenly veer off in a new direction just so I can keep playing, then what's the point in all the previous stuff I did that defined my character? It all comes down to one decision, which has only one viable option.

Either the endgame is no fun, or the big morality choice utterly fails as I make a decision completely removed from the context of my character, the plot, the world, the game. I stop being the noble, eccentric adventurer I've been for the rest of the game and just become a bloke sitting on the sofa pressing a button to continue.

Neither of those is good.

For the 10 or so hours that I played Fable 2, I loved it. Certainly one of the best this year, if not this generation. Of course I would've played more, but then I progressed into the Hero of Will mission to rescue Garth and it crashed. Subsequent game loads (seeing as the game so nicely saved right before the crash) mean I am loading a black screen of death, where I can't even quit to the dashboard.

Seeing as I loved the game so much, I restarted again - without getting married, having babies with multiple wives, and charging 200% rent. I go into Brightwood tower again, poor and single, hoping the lack of extra game save data would get me though. Cutscene ends - deja vu. Another crash, another duff save file.

F off Lionhead.

@kangarootoo:

Now I am 1337 haxx0rz!!

Thank you kanga!! The first thing I've learned this week that was actually useful.

Great game, loved it. Most charming enjoyable game this year.

"Why didn't I just save the dog? Well, at the end of the game my character is faced with a MORAL choice."

I was definitely roleplaying when playing this game:)

Pretty much throughout the game I didn't connect with anyone other than my loyal dog though I made an effort to be 'good'. All the stuff in the Spire confused matters and I quite easily got into the habit of obeying because it seemed like the most sensible thing to do - Unfortunately I wasn't allowed take what seemed to be the logical progression from that which was to turn in the mage when he finally escaped. When I did get out of the spire I was left feeling even more confused about what to do but I finally found a place that I did immediately like - that town with all the pirates.

Basically, the only reason I completed that main story was because there wasn't option to say "Find some other chump, you irritating cow! What, the world will end? So what!". I chose the dog at then end because my character didn't really care about anyone else apart from the people in 'pirate town'.

What I really wanted was an option to say to that cow "You need me? Right, here's what I want..."

PlugMonkey, I completely agree with you about the choice at the end, except that I must admit, I do regret sacrificing him quite bitterly. However, I did what I felt was in keeping with the character I was developing. I had done a few nasty things as a young hero, but had grown into a hero who did anything possible to help other people, so it had to be the sacrifice choice - even though I knew I wouldn't like the outcome. But I made the choice and I'm certainly not blaming Lionhead or anybody else for my hero's loneliness.

I do very much wish I still had my dog, and I have to admit, I've barely touched that particular hero again since I lost the dog, but I just think that shows how well they did at making the player bond with their hero and their dog. So I am hoping that a way will be found to bring the dog back. If this never happens, I will be pretty disappointed, but this will never change my opinion on how great this game is. I did not drink the potion.

I did console myself a little bit by creating an evil character and having another playthrough, but this time being free to be a completely selfish and imorral bastard! And I chose Love at the end of that playthrough, since it wasn't my 'proper' character and I didn't care so much about him (now her!).

Also, about the supposed lack of an end boss fight. Surely the GIGANTIC SPIRE SHARD counts as a pretty big boss fight. It may not have been RIGHT at the end, but it was as near as dammit.

However, just to prove I'm not just a fawning cocksucker, I will suggest a few areas that I feel could have been improved.

The BACK button could have been used for some kind of map-screen, since the game doesn't really have any decent pictures of the map. Maybe fast-travel could have been done using the map, rather than just a list. It would help create a better sense of geography for Albion.

What people have said about drinking potions and eating food is also true in my opinion. It would be good not to have to come out of the menu every time. Also, why can't books and documents be organised better?

When holding down LB to go into first-person, I'd have liked to have been able to move around, rather than being rooted to the spot. I don't mean actually playing and fighting and all that in first-person, just being able to move around at walking-speed would have been good.

It would also be good to be able to 'lock' items into your inventory so as not to accidentally sell them.

A good suggestion I saw in the Lionhead forums (which is an addition rather than a change/fix) was an in-game camera, to take and share pictures of anything in the game, including your own hero.

So that's it really, I loved the game. I'm unhappy with the outcomes from some of my decisions, but I made them knowing what was going to happen, and the only person at fault for the consequences of my decisions is of course, myself.

Great stuff Lionhead, roll on the 22nd!

EDIT: Scimarad, the pirate town is called Bloodstone. That was my favourite town too, it has so much character to it!

Lots of people here slagging him off i see..

.. why dont you all come back when you're running a big major games company?

@Plug:

I get what you're saying, and I'm probably wrong about this, but it seems like you approached the game with a pre-concieved notion about how to "properly" play it, and it didn't fit into Fable 2 correctly.

The climactic final battle . . . I've played more of the game, completed more of the quests, since me and Lord Lucien had our sit-down than. I've become convinced the "main" quest was only there to provide enough direction so that by the time it ended you were firmly evolving as a character in Albion, and now you're established enough that the game can become more "sandbox" than "epic RPG". If you had no direction from the get-go, it would have been chaos. Now, there's already inertia to the evolution of the character andthe world, so it will naturally tend to progress in a semi-predictable manner.

"Creating" a character -- as I said before, the game seems like it delibrately tries to foil attempts to approach it in terms of "I'm going play as Lawfull Good this time" by giving situations and choices that "punish" you for not progressing organically. If you refused to even consider the choice of townspeople vs poochie (and I agree from a pure morality position its not even open for discussion), then your game is hampered (no poochie). you said:

"I'm not experiencing loss and regret, I'm experiencing my game not being any fun to play any more."

If the only thing that changed the game from "fun" to "not fun" was the absence of Poochie, then respectfully you ARE feeling loss and regret -- to play as a completely sin-free character, you had to give up (experience loss) what apparently was the one thing that made the game "fun" for you (as I can tell, nothing else changed). You might not be bemoaning the decision ("Why oh why didn't I save Poochie?"), but you certainly sound like you are unhappy with the consequence of your decision (no Poochie, ergo no fun) and wish that the results of your actions wer edifferent (moral choice and retain the fun-producing Poochie) -- that might not be the dictionary definition of "regret", but it seems to be pretty darn close.

@smelly

".. why dont you all come back when you're running a big major games company?"

SHHHUUUUTTTTT UUUUPPPPP!!!

Man, what is WRONG with you? Everytime someone critisises Molyneux, you wheel out the same "you aren't allowed to critisise until you have achieved the same things" rubbish. But its rubbish. It was rubbish last time you said it, it was rubbish at the times before that, it is rubbish now and it shall still be rubbish the next time you inevitably say it.

How many times must it be explained. You do NOT need to be able to do something yourself in order to critisise it. You just don't.

How about, just once, you try a constructive response. You know, an opposing opinion based on fact and observation (or even purely subjective feelings, whatever). Trying to just shut down some elses opinion by telling them they aren't qualified to express it just makes it look like you KNOW they are right, but you don't like that they are right.

@busboy33

+1

I think Bloodstone was probably my favourite spot too :)

Bloodstone was great - It was like I had finally come home:)