EVE is better than WOW, says Dyack

By Oli Welsh Published 27 August, 2008

He just can't help himself, can he?

Silicon Knights chief and Too Human mastermind Denis Dyack has told videogaming247 he thinks EVE Online is better than World of Warcraft.

"I love EVE Online, and actually for me personally I actually think it's a better game," Dyack said. "I know it's a lot harder-core, but the depth of it is unparalleled, and I love it."

Dyack revealed that he struggles with addictive, time-sink nature of MMOs. "I have to force myself to stop playing those games because it takes so much time," he said.

"I used to [play WOW]. I pulled myself off; Within four weeks I was at level 57, so I almost got to level 60 and then I said, 'You know, I've got to stop this'."

Many would agree with Dyack; EVE offers a single persistent universe, a sense of real danger, and a depth of player interaction that Blizzard's monster hit simply can't match. Plus: spaceships.

Others might argue that EVE's impenetrable complexity make it a little too much like hard work compared to WOW's variety, accessibility and colourful action. Others still would say the games aren't comparable at all.

Stop by the EVE Online gamepage for a raft of features from EVE expert Jim Rossignol explaining this bizarre and fascinating game. Or just slag it off in the comments. Your choice.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (83) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dizzy #1 4 years ago

    Apples and oranges.

  • ps3owner #2 4 years ago

    I like fruit

  • DFawkes #3 4 years ago

    The games are nigh on identical though, how can he even tell them apart?

    I wouldn't even say Apples and Orange, more like Apples and H.M.S Titanic.

  • HEAVYface #4 4 years ago

    "I used to [play WOW]. I pulled myself off"

    huh?

  • Pirotic #5 4 years ago

    He has a valid point, Eve is a hell of a lot deeper than WoW. Just depends what your after, I don't quite get his example mind you - if he doesn't have the time to play WoW, god only knows how he finds the time for Eve.

  • Xerx3s #6 4 years ago

    "I love EVE Online, and actually for me personally I actually think it's a better game," Dyack said. "I know it's a lot harder-core, but the depth of it is unparalleled, and I love it."

    "He just can't help himself, can he? "

    Sorry but he is just expressing an opinion/preference, what's wrong with that? Or is it wrong to like one game better than another these days? Can I have that horse when you're done with it?

  • UncleLou #7 4 years ago

    Guy gets asked question, answers it, even adds "for me personally", silly people on the internet still will go apeshit.

  • Wyrm #8 4 years ago

    And Half Life is better than Tetris.

  • BillyBrush #9 4 years ago

    Developer in talking about games shocker!....journalist has trouble coming to terms with the concept of developers talking....retardisation spreads ever further..

  • Collymilad #10 4 years ago

    Yeah I just love EVE.

    It's great how if you wander into the wrong place you get owned at the drop of a hat, and it just so happens that 80% of the Universe is the "wrong place"

    EVE sucks, its too dominated by factions, and while this is an interesting thing, it makes it very difficult for anyone wanting to play Solo or within a smaller group. Yes, it's hard core - but wheres the line?

    Yes eve is deeper than Wow - but depth =/= fun. WoW is a hell of a lot more fun. I've played both (admittedly WoW for about a year and EVE for around 4 months) and the only time I ever had anything approaching fun in EVE was mining with my corp, whereas WoW was fun almost the whole time.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 11:46

  • kangarootoo #11 4 years ago

    Holy christ on a tandem.

    I tell you what I like Denis... shall I tell you? Go on then. Sometimes, just sometimes, I like silence.

    Thats a new one eh? How about you try it on for size and see if you like it too? At least the finding out will be fun, even if it doesn't last.

  • kangarootoo #12 4 years ago

    "Sorry but he is just expressing an opinion/preference, what's wrong with that? Or is it wrong to like one game better than another these days? Can I have that horse when you're done with it?"

    You can borrow my horse mate, but you'll need to bring your own stepladder :)

  • Wickerman #13 4 years ago

    I'm more confused as to why this is even considered newsworthy on its own to be honest. Still, good job Mr Dyack - you've now replaced Peter Molyneux at the top of my 'oh for fucks sake, why won't he shut the fuck up' list - something I never thought would happen!

  • Iora #14 4 years ago

    I want to know who the eve maniac in the Eurogamer team is. Better yet i'd like to know his pilots name. To shake his hand in game or pod him. I haven't quite decided yet...

  • Venkman90 #15 4 years ago

    They chose to print it, what is he supposed to be a mute?

    I like Too Human, it is better than most reviews would have you think but takes time to get to grips with, this is an opinion, shit you guys better make a story about it.

    In fact, why the feck is this a "news" story?

  • Xerx3s #16 4 years ago

    "You can borrow my horse mate, but you'll need to bring your own stepladder :) "

    for a midget pony? ;p

  • BillyBrush #17 4 years ago

    Retardisation at 90%

    'we cannae hold it back captain Hawking, they've used the breaching charge 'Goody01'...people no longer understand the concept of speech, people called Oli not Oliver are writing as semi professionals...it's all gone tae shit...Ohh Jordan's got a new pair of Jimmy Choos'

    ...'quick Wright, close the airlock on Scotty, there's no helping him now!'

  • 4thVariety #18 4 years ago

    He played both games, he then gave his opinion, who are we to tell him his personal opinion is wrong? The article might slightly overblow the issue making it seem as if Dennis Dyack can't walk past a single pond without taking a leak into it, but why shouldn't he answer when asked such a question? Anybody else here would.

    Btw, the expression "comparing apples and oranges" is a shining testament to ignorance, nothing else. No sane person would try to compare identical things. Any dictionary will tell you that "compare with" is used to estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between. For example apple and oranges! Only those not interested in a comparison of comparable features are interested in pulling such an "apples and oranges" statement, most likely due to the fact of anticipating an unfavorable outcome should it happen anyway.

  • kangarootoo #19 4 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    Hey, if you are saying that my high horse isn't that high... well that sounds like a compliment to me... so I'll accept it :)

  • Farfarer #20 4 years ago

    Why is this even news?

  • kangarootoo #21 4 years ago

    @4thVariety

    "Btw, the expression "comparing apples and oranges" is a shining testament to ignorance, nothing else. No sane person would try to compare identical things. Any dictionary will tell you that "compare with" is used to estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between. For example apple and oranges! Only those not interested in a comparison of comparable features are interested in pulling such an "apples and oranges" statement, most likely due to the fact of anticipating an unfavorable outcome should it happen anyway."

    I'm sorry to derail your well written, if slightly yawnsome, rhetoric... but are you suggesting that two apples are identical?

    (bear in mind text is cold and emotionless, and I'm really not being as rude as it first appears :) )

  • JediMasterMalik #22 4 years ago

    Even though I think Dyack as an immature dick, I can't see how this in any way paints him in a negative light, it's just an opinion, he hardly said WoW sucks.

  • BooMMooB #23 4 years ago

    lol, almost lvl 60. He didn't even experience endgame WoW. Fair enough, EVE maybe is deeper than WoW, but drawing the conclusion before you actually discover what WoW has to offer at high level (at that time) sounds reaaally stupid to me.

    How about producing some quality games instead of showing the world how much of a bigmouth you really are.

    argh, see what you made me do, Dyack.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 12:03

  • TSYNDMonkfish #24 4 years ago

    Well each to their own and all that - I personally think its a little unfair to compare them.

    EvE is a bit special though, Interweb Spaceships 4tw!

  • Beano #25 4 years ago

    "Silicon Knights chief and Too Human mastermind... "

    I love thick and jucy irony ;)

  • BillyBrush #26 4 years ago

    Retardisation at 95%

    she's about to blow!

  • mcmonkeyplc #27 4 years ago

    Spaceships> Orcs.

    Easy.

  • paulf #28 4 years ago

    less time playing wow and eve more time getting rid of crazy unskippable death sequences and too human might of been a better game

  • Schiraman #29 4 years ago

    Sorry to those who are fans, but having played EVE I can honestly say that I don't consider "click on the ship, kill the ship, click on the next ship, repeat" to be deep gameplay. Of course there's also asteroid mining, which is really... fascinating.

    I like that EVE has a single, integrated world and a lot of player-driven elements, but the actual gameplay is extraordinarily repetitive and dull even by the normal grind-heavy standards of other MMOs.

  • actionfitz #30 4 years ago

    Loud-Mouthed Studio Boss in Personal Opinion Shocker!

    slow news day much?
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 12:21

  • Canyarion #31 4 years ago

    Trying to draw attention away from Too Human? :-P

  • northside #32 4 years ago

    Since when does a developer expressing a perfectly valid opinion become front page news worthy? Or are EG simply just trying to whip up a bit more anti-Dyack sentiment?

    Tried the EVE trial - I think 5 years ago i'd have loved this game, but it's just too much of a time-sink for me to get into now. I appreciate what it sets out to do though.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 12:23

  • actionfitz #33 4 years ago

    @paulf
    27-Aug-08 12:06:04

    "less time playing wow and eve more time getting rid of crazy unskippable death sequences and too human might of been a better game"

    lol maybe Blizzard will be sued after Epic for being at fault for Too Human being shit.

  • polaris70 #34 4 years ago

    A hardcore fantasy mmo in developement using Unreal3 and in first person view is supposed to be released next summer. The game looks awesome and is called Mortal-Online. Check it out and take a look at the forums, the game has some fantastic ideas.
    http://www.mortalonline. com/

  • Krun #35 4 years ago

    space invaders is better than pacman. There I've said it.

  • hula hoops #36 4 years ago

    I personally think Dyack is a wanker. Don't ask why because I said "personally" and I am entitled to my opinion.

    And you can 'personally' think I am a wanker too.

    Isn't it nice to be able to say whatever you want on the internet?

  • Monkey_Puncher #37 4 years ago

    He expressed an opinion, is he not aloud to do that anymore?

    What a stupid attempt to get hits this awful story is..

  • BillyBrush #38 4 years ago

    Canyarion
    27-Aug-08 12:21:30

    Trying to draw attention away from Too Human? :-P
    ignore poster



    Yes that's correct, developers try to deflect attention away from their company's products all the time...you got it in one einstein!

    In 2008, pigshit is used as a thinner

  • HEAVYface #39 4 years ago

    I personally think Dyack is a wanker. Don't ask why because I said "personally" and I am entitled to my opinion.

    "I used to [play WOW]. I pulled myself off"

    he already admitted he's a wanker........
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 12:38

  • kangarootoo #40 4 years ago

    "is he not aloud to do that anymore"

    allowed

    ;)

  • squarepusher #41 4 years ago

    stop the fucking pile on this shit is pathetic

  • #42 4 years ago

    Hold on, someone like something different from someone else and it gets reported?

    EG wise up!

  • hula hoops #43 4 years ago

    What a stupid attempt to get hits this awful story is..

    On Eurogamer, my blame for this lame news really is.

    And better stories for us to read, they should have come up with.

  • haveasafeday #44 4 years ago

    Everyone I know that plays EVE are the kind of people that need to get a life

  • degville #45 4 years ago

    @haveasafeday and this isn't the case with WOW?

  • ps3owner #46 4 years ago

    slow news day

  • ThePissartist #47 4 years ago

    I've just put his comments through the Mighty Dyack Translator and here is the output:

    'My new game is complex but dull, this game is complex but dull - if you enjoy EVE (or WoW because EVE is better than WoW) buy my game because it's really, really good. Please ignore the reviews.'

    Or something.

  • SpyroViper #48 4 years ago

    Why would we care what he thinks? He makes crap games and moans at Epic for shoddy engines. GO AWAY!

  • haveasafeday #49 4 years ago

    @degville I guess you're right but I bet you don't know anyone that has a 100day plan for WOW

  • Malixu #50 4 years ago

    Apples and the H.M.S. Titanic indeed.

    Being "hardcore" or "deep" doesn't make something better. It makes it different. When I relax, I want to relax, I don't want to spend several hours staring at a screensaver... I mean jump animation... incase someone decides to attack me. My day to day job is challenging, I look for my entertainment to be simplistic and rewarding.

  • Drone #51 4 years ago

    I'm with Denis, I pull myself off now and again as well.

  • Prox #52 4 years ago

    Both are better than Too Human

  • darleysam #53 4 years ago

    Wow, Dyack you card!
    He's got an opinion, oh dear?

  • BillyBrush #54 4 years ago


    Make the bad man stop talking mummy, make the bad man stop talking, me no like him baaaad man! waaaa! why he talk - him badd man, developer being interviewed, bad man why he talk to them?, make him stop!

    we no like bad man, please, please, make bad man stop talking..

    I thought i'd just raise the level of commentary a little, it was in danger of becoming moronic for a second there




  • Oldern #55 4 years ago

    EVE is deeper than WOW? Right.
    EVE is better than WOW? Well, one can argue with this, because they cant be directly compared.

    But anyone who thinks that WOW is really enjoyable without real hardwork (either you grind honor or badge, but to be allowed to grind these, you should have grind yourself with at least 4-5 faction to revered, or have friends who grinded those already, so they can run you through KZ a few times...), I dare to say: he is wrong.

    Still waiting for the first mmo without the need to grind. Powers earned fast, powers lost fast. Anyone?

  • kangarootoo #56 4 years ago

    @BillyBrush

    Is he your uncle or something? You seem more than a little defensive today.

  • Agent_Orange #57 4 years ago

    Oldern, that's called real life :DD

  • BillyBrush #58 4 years ago

    @Kanga

    surprisingly he's not my uncle...

    i just think the article 'he can't help himself!' is one of the the most retardedly titled articles ever...Dyack as a developer gets asked lots of questions by journalists, and he has the sheer pomposity to actually speak to some of them...it's just absurd..

    or quite normal for a developer to do, and this article is retarded, that's my view, nothing for or against Dyack they have a mixed dev history, but obviously having put a bad game out recently they are currently shit hence have lost the right to talk when asked questions

  • dudefella #59 4 years ago

    How is this controversial? "One man prefers one game over some other game! Film at 11"

  • hahayou #60 4 years ago

    The only news here is that whoever writes Eurogamer headlines makes a generally intelligent website look like it's run by a bunch of trolling 13 year olds.

  • BooMMooB #61 4 years ago

    it's not that he commented in itself. It's that he thought himself hardcore enought to make judgement based on being lvl 58. By any standard he probably haven't hit any major instance or even touched upon pvp and battlegrounds.

    Now, would you trust a reviewer making judgement based on this? No, of course not.

    'WoW is better than EVE, and I know since I actually made my first starcraft. WoW is just much deeper.'







  • spammage #62 4 years ago

    I had a real good shit this morning. That is my opinion although I don't have anything to qualify that statement with. As far as I'm concerned you're all wankers. There, I said it.

  • Chufty #63 4 years ago

    Why is this news? It's just his opinion as a player. I personally think most MMOs are better than WoW, can I get a headline too?

  • BillyBrush #64 4 years ago

    No Chufty, because you are not this months hottest flame bait..

  • Grump #65 4 years ago

    I actually play both - simultaneously sometimes. I play WOW on the PC while mining (which involves being AFK a lot) in EvE on the laptop.

  • Avaloner #66 4 years ago

    Lets give this man a break shall we. He is voicing his own personal opinion. It might not be the mainstream opinion but you cannot really argue with it.

  • Nodebug #67 4 years ago

    @UncleLou

    Exactly! Personal opinion taken out of context in internet headline shocker, fanboys rape dogs and choke babies in despair!!

  • kangarootoo #68 4 years ago

    @BillyBrush

    I take your point.

    On the one hand, to be fair, the headline tag was more or less predicting the wash of "oh just put a sock in it" comments that have predictably followed. Did it bait the comments that followed? I suspect they would have occured without the headline tag (mine certainly would have).

    On the other hand, I don't see EG doing the same whenever Peter Molyneux opens his mouth.


    That said, PM is always polite and well meaning if a little bemusing, whereas Dyack has had more than his fair share of essentially calling other people dickheads. My feelings on the matter is that DD has spent all his chips by acting like an ass in the past.

    Consequently I'm not much interested in what he has to say, whether it be about his own product or anybody elses, and everytime he opens his mouth its like someone has opened a window right next to me when I already have a bad case of flu and have left my scarf at home.

  • Apologie #69 4 years ago

    who gives a shit... both games suck big time.

  • kangarootoo #70 4 years ago

    Christ alive, I guess Denis is Coin-Op's uncle after all. My mistake.

  • BillyBrush #71 4 years ago

    Someone doesn't have to be your family member to see that answering questions in interviews is normal practice for the head of a games development studio Kanga, whatever he says is just taken out of context i'm sure ye can see that

    and it's based on whether people like your latest game in all honesty, if Epic just released Unreal2 the awakening and Cliff B said something about his fave games, people would bash him, not for what he said but because make a bad game and your voice must be silenced..
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 16:00

  • BillyBrush #72 4 years ago

    [link url=ht tp://www.giantbomb.com/video-thing-2human/17-29/
    ]http://ww w.giantbomb.com/video-thing-2hu...[/link]

    This is quite amusing...

  • kangarootoo #73 4 years ago

    @BillyBrush

    Oh I know, my uncle references are purely in the name of sarcastic humour. And I can see that his comments in themself are perfectly benign.

    To be honest I'm really just poking fun and then stiring when people leap to DD's defense. He hasn't conducted himself in the best way possible in the past, so I think he can take a little bit of pointless internet banter (its not like anyone is knocking on his front door and calling him a twat).

    I know he has had some bad press recently, but I tend to think that people are their best when under pressure and if that is when someone starts flinging poo they have to expect a little of it to get thrown back.

    I shall leave him alone now, and maybe even bake him a cake and send it round with a note of apology (in my mind).

  • UncleLou #74 4 years ago

    who gives a shit... both games suck big time.

    You give enough shit enough to troll stupidly, because you care. It pains you that you can't even make a real comment, because you've never played either.

    In fact, you're the one poster here who blatantly cared the most so far, congratulations!
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 16:29

  • BillyBrush #75 4 years ago

    i think he deserves a little cakey wake

    tbh....when people on the internet get all riled up, it doesn't do any harm to game sales, that game for one thing probably has a much higher profile than it deserves from playing the demo, but i guess there's a lil justice in that for Den becoming the internets most hated man...Old Moleneux, i likes him too, but he's no stranger to the same kind of stick, shame the same thing doesn't happen to beautiful actresses and actors really..

  • darleysam #76 4 years ago

    Peter Molyneux prefers toast to cornflakes.

    When will the madness end!

    I do really like Eurogamer, it's the first place I come to for any news and generally has the reviews I trust most, but this just feels like an attempt to stir up more trouble around someone who can't seem to say anything without getting hauled over the coals for "mouthing off" with a personal opinion about something.

  • kangarootoo #77 4 years ago

    I've been doing a bit more research, and this turned up.

    [link url=http://ww w.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168418
    ]http://ww w.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168...[/link]

    Seriously. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just say nothing. I've said many times and I'll say it again, anyone working in this business who can't develop a thick skin is going to have a bumpy ride. Someone somewhere will always call your game shit, and you will call you shit for being involved in its making. That is just how it is.

    Anyway, this is totally my last word on the subject.

  • strelok #78 4 years ago

    Eurogamer: We wrote a naughty headline. We're sorry.



    Hypocrisy - my second favorite sin.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/08 @ 18:04

  • WrongShui #79 4 years ago

    So! Shall we list games better than Too Human?

    Talk about time sinks..

  • subtlesnake #80 4 years ago

    Internet Controversy 101:

    1.) Invite controversial game maker to be interviewed.
    2.) Asks him what he thinks of a certain game.
    3.) Ignore the rest of his interview, and post his honest response as a front page story, with a headline to make him look like he's attacking said game.
    4.) Page hits
    5.) Profit

    Edited by 2 at 27/08/08 @ 22:56

  • Sevens #81 4 years ago

    "Guy gets asked question, answers it, even adds "for me personally", silly people on the internet still will go apeshit."

    Indeed.

  • Lamont #82 4 years ago

    Make a good game, then pop off. Until then shut your pie hole.

  • Mooks #83 3 years ago

    Eve is more boring than Wow