Europe gets new PS3 hardware

By Robert Purchese Published 23 February, 2007

PS2 game support limited.

Sony has changed the specification of the PlayStation 3 for Europe, raising doubts over the number of PlayStation 2 games that will be compatible with the next-gen machine.

"Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3," said David Reeves, president of SCEE.

Sony has said that 'a new combination of hardware and software emulation will enable the PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation titles, and a limited range of PS2 titles'.

Head over to GamesIndustry.biz for the full story.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (456) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Weezer #1 5 years ago

    Backward compatibility: the great Red Herring of videogames.

  • prettyboytim #2 5 years ago

    HUUUULK SMAAAAASH!

  • mkreku #3 5 years ago

    This is what I was talking about in the Greek PS3 thread.. Geez, Sony. Shoot yourself in the face, why don't you.

    BOYCOTT THE PS3!

  • in5ane #4 5 years ago

    Holy shit, this is exactly the sort of the story that'll ignite even more Sony backlash. If I saw this on a forum, I would have assumed it was made up!

    I wonder if this makes my Jap PS3 that little bit more valuable :)

  • Fuser #5 5 years ago

    Well thats yet another string from their bow. Backwards compat isnt a red herring at all - I've played through and thoroughly enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic, Black and Halo 2 on my 360. I played PS1 games on my PS2.

    Why Sony think it is a good idea to give us less than the US and Japan, for more money, is beyond me.

    Donkeys.

  • Beano #6 5 years ago

    I seriously doubt that the launch PS3 hardware in Europe will be different than the USA/JAP model.

  • robo_1 #7 5 years ago

    Sony PS3' European launch is now:

    The latest
    The most expensive
    Least Features

    I hope the PS3 sinks Sony, I really do.

  • dadrester #8 5 years ago

    why?! is it cheaper to produce? i don't get it at all!

  • Darkuss #9 5 years ago

    OMG! First it was the euro-delay, then came the euro-overpricing trend in some countries and now a euro stripped-down PS3?!!?!?! *explodes*

  • skillian #10 5 years ago

    from GI.biz:

    "The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as in the US and Japanese models," a Sony spokesperson told Reuters.

    Although Sony has yet to detail the new specification fully, analyst Datamonitor suggests that a new PS3 model will feature a "new chassis" designed to bring manufacturing costs of the console down.

    "By launching the PS3 in Europe with the new chassis, Sony has at a stroke removed one of the barriers to future price reductions"

    So it's coming in a new, cheaper chassis (tho not a cheaper price point), and because of this, the back cat compatibility will be worse than the rest of the world?

    I don't normally like to join the Sony bashing but that's a pretty fucked up move.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:16

  • mazzl #11 5 years ago

    so to reduce cost sony has removed the ps2 chip from the ps3, now they will have to build a software solution emulator just like the 360, witch will suck. the fact that sony only announced this AFTER pre-orders have started is a VERY bad thing. people will not get what they have ordered. furthermore the fact that europe doens't get a cheaper ps3 than asia or the us, is also kind of a ripoff. i suspect the us and asian ps3 will get a hardware revision pretty soon to level the difference, way to go sony...

  • JediMasterMalik #12 5 years ago

    Everyone is seeing this as less features, if you thinbk about it, it probabkly means the games which are compatible, will have scaling, and look better. As long as the newer, or more popular, or best games are compatible, this is a better deal. Of course, that's a big if.

  • lambtron #13 5 years ago

    What is the extra hardware - a credit card reader so you get to pay extra each time you use the console?

    / rolls eyes.

  • mazzl #14 5 years ago

    @dadrester sony chose a hardware soluion for backward compatibility. basically a ps3 haD a ps2 build inside just for this purpose

  • GiarcYekrub #15 5 years ago

    ROTFPMSL Ha Ha The only plus I could put in the PS3 column was that'd it had guaranteed BC with my PS2 games now I thats on a equal footing I think the 360 is outright logical winner.

    Then again I said to my brother "I can't decide over Wii or 360" his reply was "I want a PS3" my natural respose was "why?" ... "because it's Sony!" was the reply...

  • Derblington #16 5 years ago

    "BOYCOTT THE PS3!"

    Get a life?

  • dadrester #17 5 years ago

    "By launching the PS3 in Europe with the new chassis, Sony has at a stroke removed one of the barriers to future price reductions, and providing it can make enough units available"

    well that's me decided then... if it's not going to play all my PS2 games i'll just save my money and import a jap one for half the price... i'm planning a holiday there anyway so fuck it!

  • Mortified_Penguin #18 5 years ago

    How can they even try justifying this! It's stupid! If Sony want people to be loyal to them, then they should be to us too! By removing full backwards compatibility they're giving PS2 owners another reason not to continue supporting Sony, they might as well buy a cheaper 360. Even worse is that they're announcing this now! People put down a deposit for pre-ordering a PS3 with full backwards compatibility, and at the last minute, they do this! How can they?!!
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:22

  • #19 5 years ago

    Bertie, the title of the article could do with being reworded. 'New' suggests better, which this most definitely isn't.

    Utter disgrace (not the article title, Sony's treatment of Europe).

  • Xerx3s #20 5 years ago

    JMM, just let it go. ;)

  • apolloscollapse #21 5 years ago

    Has no one even thought that a new chassis could mean less hardware problems too.

  • kangarootoo #22 5 years ago

    Something isn't right here. I await more factual information.

  • Blerk #23 5 years ago

    More money for less hardware and worse performance. Perfect.

    /shakes head

  • Artemis_Matsas #24 5 years ago

    Oh my God... Talk about shooting yourself on the foot.

    If these news came with a hefty price reduction, then they would be welcome... but now???

    Nice one Sony... you're doing M$'s and Nintendo's work for them!

  • Blerk #25 5 years ago

    More factual information. Emotion Engine removed, PS2 games running under software emulation.

  • JediMasterMalik #26 5 years ago

    I've made my comment, if anyone wants to take it on board they are happy to, or not. :)

    /leaves the thread to Xerx3s
    /shudders

    ;)
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:23

  • mkreku #27 5 years ago

    Derblington: Get a life?

    No, I've heard they're almost as expensive as a European Playstation 3. Just. Not Worth. It.

  • Penguinzoot #28 5 years ago

    @Weezer

    Yes, BC IS the great red herring. Most consumers say they demand it, and most only rarely use it.

    Although Sony often stated that BC through software emulation was their ultimate aim, I wasn't expecting removal of the emotion engine hardware from PS3 for maybe another couple of years.

    "... will enable the PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation titles, and a limited range of PS2 titles".

    Its that limited range of PS2 titles that is the real killer. How limited is limited? This is gonna be 360 BC all over again.

  • alpha-0ne #29 5 years ago

    Sounds like sony financially is ina lot of trouble, they speced that thing to price reduce they are now re engineering it after a few months to save more money....and screw PS2 compatability

  • ruckus #30 5 years ago

    "This is living"
    i.e PlayStation 3 - life's a bitch - get over it.

  • Hench #31 5 years ago

    @ Blerk

    Thanks for that. It is an interesting read.

    Same as the xbox 360 then?

  • kangarootoo #32 5 years ago

    @Blerk

    Ta.

    Thats kind of crap.

    I do actually believe that backward compatability is over rated and that it is actually quite a small minority that really care seriously about it. But given the fuss that was made about the 360 not having "true" bc, this is a bit of a political hiccup to say the least.

    That said, people will forget over time and I don't think it will be a deal breaker for most potential purchasers. Especially as the current PS2 is so tiny.

  • Discordian_Front #33 5 years ago

    I suspect limited means very few. If it was more than 50% Sony would have worded the press release as "The PS3 will be compatible with the vast Majority of PS2 games"

  • alpha-0ne #34 5 years ago

    Sony used ths xbox360's lack of backwards compatability as a biger selling point for the ps3, why not take out the bluray drive that wiull cut a good 20% off the price its not needed for gaming anyway

  • lambtron #35 5 years ago

    Am I right in thinking that the Jap and US PS3s are region protected for PS1 and PS2 games?

    That's to say even if I get an imported console I won't be able to play PAL PS1 and PS2 games on it?

  • kangarootoo #36 5 years ago

    Further note from Blerks handy link.

    "Usability of all storage media types is not guaranteed."

    What the hell does that mean? That the SD reader won't read all SD cards (for example)?

    I have heard of that being the case with some GPS devices, tends to be the cheaper cards that don't work with everything. Hopefully it is more a caveat for legal safety rather than a general warning of widespread incompatability.

  • karstux #37 5 years ago

    I think it's a bit strange, a hardware redesign this early in the console's life, and so soon before the euro launch. It's hard to resist painting this a "rush job"...

    But hey, maybe the new chassis won't look as fugly as the original one. Anyway, I'd wait at least one more hardware revision, along with a price drop, before considering buying one...

  • Psi #38 5 years ago

    backwards compatibility very handy, if you still have games to complete and you don't want two consoles plugged in. sony are causing global warming!

  • cannabinemsi #39 5 years ago

    this sucks big time. i expect all my playstation games to run on the newest playstation. easy as that. sony made me expect this with PS2 and the NTSC PS3. now it looks like the same shit as on the xbox 360. i was thinking about selling my PS2 and invest the money in the PS3. damn....

  • Noctilucent #40 5 years ago

    Idiots! Now they give me one more reason not to want one. At least not until PS3 becomes heavily discounted. Xbox360, you are looking sexier than ever to me!

  • jmcoo7 #41 5 years ago

    I guess i will just have to rush finishing the last few ps2 games then before march 23rd , was keeping ffxii till next month . It is not a major problem for me i never used my ps2 for psx games anyway despite the ability to do so .So no harm done after all its new games im after not older ones .

  • chupachups #42 5 years ago

    "Backward compatibility: the great Red Herring of videogames."

    It may be, but Sony themselves keep going on about it, so they only have themselves to blame if people are shocked by problems in the backwards compatibility.


    ""By launching the PS3 in Europe with the new chassis, Sony has at a stroke removed one of the barriers to future price reductions, and providing it can make enough units available" "

    What a load of rubbish, the PS3 20GB with the old chassis costs Ł200 in Japan.

    And if Sony really wanted to offer a cheaper PS3 in Europe, they'd be launching with the 20GB one.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:38

  • Blerk #43 5 years ago

    Am I right in thinking that the Jap and US PS3s are region protected for PS1 and PS2 games?

    That's to say even if I get an imported console I won't be able to play PAL PS1 and PS2 games on it?

    Yes, that is correct.

    Furthermore, I would expect 'future' shipments of US/JP machines to have exactly the same configuration as the European model. Anyone wanting a PS3 with proper BC had better buy one quickly.

  • LOLLERS #44 5 years ago

    I never bought a PS2 (but I have 'obtained' one) and there are loads of games I want to play or finish nt mention ones still to be released like GoW2, so i'd be quite interested in BC, just so I can unplug the shitty old PS2 I have.

    Most people may not use it very often, but it's a great feature to be able to stick an old game in you've been meaning to finish, without having to dig out your old console and cable it up. Not to mention the fact that I imagine many people would like to offset the cost of a PS3 by selling their PS2 hardware on.

    plus there aren't any good PS3 games so it'd be nice to be able to play something good on it, am i rite???!

  • kangarootoo #45 5 years ago

    @cannabinemsi

    You saw that article about Ł50 PS2s at Asda right? You would be lucky to get Ł30 for second hand PS2 these days.

  • Skeletor #46 5 years ago

    Switching to software emulation is a BIG difference and another broken promise on Sony's side. They said that they're going for full and real backwards comp. but suddenly decided not to. Quoting Kurt Russel from "The Thing" here: "Cheating bitch!".
    It will take years until this software emulation "solution" reaches the same compatibility level as the US and JP consoles! No positive side to it at all! Just another reason to go for a cheap PS2 and let Sony's overprized Titanic sink...

  • NoCodeNed2 #47 5 years ago

    I have absolutely no idea exactly how many PS2 games will be bc on PS3 and I've absolutely no idea what possible advantage having this feature in software rather than hardware could mean but I'm going to froth and bark, howl at the moon and demand sony pay me money for the injury they've probably caused me when I find out some tangible information on this 'news'.

    you guys is funny.

  • bonker #48 5 years ago

    My god, do Sony just not give a flying fuck or what?!

    It's just one kick-in-the-bollocks after another with these guys!

    You just couldn't make this stuff up, you really couldn't.

    It's also pretty crass after they dissed MS for releasing two specs of the 360 (which were at least available to everybody to choose!) then they decide to force a cut-down version of the PS3 only on Europe that is so cut down that it'll actually play less games than the Yanks & Japs get and at a higher cost to us to boot!!!

    Shambolic is the only word I can think to describe Sony's PS3 antics - heads will roll in very high places (if they haven't already) at Sony this year ...

    Oh and BTW, if they're willing to do this sort of thing now (before even the launch FFS!!!) you can expect to get less of whatever the Yanks & Japs are getting throughout the PS3's lifetime ...

    Is the Euro PS3 now the new 'tardpack' as the Core 360 was/is?

  • Gnort #49 5 years ago

    Another huge, smoking hole in Sony's foot.

    I've been a big supporter of Sony, but this is becoming too much. Even if someone has a PS2 and a large collection of games they still wanted to play, it now makes more sense for them to get an Xbox 360 and simply keep the PS2.

  • gizmo #50 5 years ago

    Very, Very slack.

    They're running scared if they're cutting functions to cut costs.

  • lambtron #51 5 years ago

    The problem is that BC is actually quite useful at launch. There is a dearth of decent titles and I have a pile of quality PS2 games that I wanted to finish. I was thinking of getting a US one to avoid the premium price we pay here but then I realise this won't allow me to play old games.

    Arse.

  • mkreku #52 5 years ago

    I think people are a little confused about this whole thing, when they compare the backwards compatibility of the PS2 to the BC of the PS3. Yeah, I can easily believe a lot of people didn't care much for the BC in the PS2.. but that's not really because the BC isn't important, it's mainly because the PS1 to PS2 was (mostly) a jump from 2D to 3D. Most 2D games feel severely dated if you try to play them now. But the PS2 to PS3 is a jump from 3D to shinier 3D. The jump is not as huge as from PS1 to PS2. I believe BC will be a bigger deal for this generation.

    I have a huge bundle of PS2 games that I want to be able to play without problems if I ever get a PS3 (most likely, considering my job..), so this kind of news really irks me. There's still hope though: if Sony does a fantastic job on the software emulation and actually ADD features to the software emulator that the hardware was incapable of, and it's still up to 80-90% of the games that work. Then it's no big deal and might actually work to their advantage. Sony's reputation in software doesn't give me much hope though.

  • -TKF- #53 5 years ago

    THIS SUCKS ASS

  • GreasyWeasel #54 5 years ago

    The way Sony has consistently shot it's self in the foot during the build up to the release of the PS3. I am honestly starting to think that they must have employed undercover Microsoft employees to destroy Sony from the inside. There can be no other explanation since every decision they have made (particularly for Europe) for the PS3 has been the wrong one. Even if they had a demented monkey running things and picking the decisions randomly with his eyes shut he would have made a better stab at it than they have!

  • MaxiSleep #55 5 years ago

    It is pretty amazing how sony continue to be the company that gives and gives and gives again, especially to us europeans.

    I really don't now how some posters here can still give them any form of support.

  • Derblington #56 5 years ago

    Skeletor - Broken promises? Sony have said from the start that they wanted software emulation.

  • jmcoo7 #57 5 years ago

    It amazes me that despite Microsoft shafting people for years they never get the stick sony do . I for one am looking forward to my ps3 and i dont give a toss whether it plays my old ps2 games as i will just keep my ps2 tucked away for a rainy day if necessary .

  • Dizzy #58 5 years ago

    The probably removed some PS2 chips from the PS3. Weird... costs more in Europe and cost less to produce? Europe gets it double up the ***. I do not understand why Sony would do this? It will just anger people. Maybe the cost on the PS3 is really hurting them.

    Luckily they have idots like jmcoo7 to buy their stuff.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:50

  • El_MUERkO #59 5 years ago

    I'm not buying one on launch day so I'm happy enough to wait and see what happens with regards the list, if its a joke or the BC turns out to be shite I'll import from Hong Kong. I wanted to buy an EU console for support but fuck it I'll take my chances with an import.

  • Beano #60 5 years ago

    ""This is living"
    i.e PlayStation 3 - life's a bitch - get over it. "

    LOL... good one :)

  • jmcoo7 #61 5 years ago

    No but it has been quickly forgotten and did it affect sales , doubt it .

  • Beano #62 5 years ago

    "So the Wii has the best BC then. I mean it's perfect, you take any GC disk and stick it in and play it, perfect. "

    Yes... here is Nintendo's secret : The Wii is a GameCube!

  • LOLLERS #63 5 years ago

    I do not understand why Sony would do this?

    Luckily they have idots like jmcoo7 to buy their stuff.


    I think you answered your own question.

    But I bet their profit margins in europe look much healthier now, higher price, lower costs. I'm sure some executives are very very happy with their performance, maybe they even hit their targets!

  • bonker #64 5 years ago

    "I have a huge bundle of PS2 games that I want to be able to play without problems if I ever get a PS3 (most likely, considering my job..), so this kind of news really irks me. There's still hope though: if Sony does a fantastic job on the software emulation and actually ADD features to the software emulator that the hardware was incapable of, and it's still up to 80-90% of the games that work. Then it's no big deal and might actually work to their advantage. Sony's reputation in software doesn't give me much hope though. "

    Think it through though - how likely are Sony to put any effort whatsoever into the bc s/w emulation? That would cost time and money, right? Does that sound like the sort of thing that Sony would even consider for a picosecond in the European market?!

  • jmcoo7 #65 5 years ago

    Do we actually know how many games will be Bc , no lets just wait eh b4 we all go jumping the gun it may be higher than people realise no point in jumping to comclusions i expect they may just be covering there back and it may be much higher , then again i aint buying it to play ps2 games .

  • Skeletor #66 5 years ago

    @Derblington
    No, they didn't. They even said that compared to what M$ is doing they are aiming for real (hardware) emulation or a mixture of both.
    Another thing:
    "Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3," said David Reeves, president of SCEE.
    Another freaking lie! Having a staff for software emulation is way more expensive in the long run than just spitting out the money for built in hardware. They probably plan to sell PS2 games online, so you have to buy them again...from Sony!
    Sony is clearly spitting in the face of its customers.

  • Kami #67 5 years ago

    ...

    I think, for once, I am lost for words on this one...

  • chupachups #68 5 years ago

    "it's mainly because the PS1 to PS2 was (mostly) a jump from 2D to 3D."

    Totally untrue, most hit games on the PS1 were 3D: Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo FFVII etc. The whole point of the PS1 was that it did do true 3D.

    The jump from 2D to 3D happened between the Mega Drive generation and the PS1 generation, not the PS1 and PS2 generation.
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 11:58

  • sandys #69 5 years ago

    Don't normally comment but this is utter shite.

    I have just cancelled my pre-order.

  • jmcoo7 #70 5 years ago

    "Luckily they have idots like jmcoo7 to buy their stuff"

    So have nintendo and microsoft , no console manufacturer ever please everybody . I have had them all in the past , from nes to megadrive to dreamcast and now the ps3 . I have always ended up happy in the end except with the dc . If you need to resort to childish insults i guess you should dig out the old Tomy kiddie console for yourself .

  • mowgli #71 5 years ago

    lols @ sony
    roflol @ consumer base

  • ThreeOutsideDown #72 5 years ago

    as i've written elsewhere on the forum:

    it wouldn't surprise me at all if there never was a blu ray diode shortage.

    and the only reason that sony delayed the european release was to reduce the ps2 hardware in the ps3 to more of a software solution for significant savings on the cost of production of the console.

    i guess we'll never know the real reason for the euro delay but being a cynical bastard i know what i think it is...

  • bonker #73 5 years ago

    "Do we actually know how many games will be Bc , no lets just wait eh b4 we all go jumping the gun it may be higher than people realise no point in jumping to comclusions i expect they may just be covering there back and it may be much higher , then again i aint buying it to play ps2 games . "

    Yes but *everyone* knows that s/w emulation is SHIT compared to h/w emulation cos it's so bloody hard and incredibly slow to do - don't expect s/w emulation to ever deliver more than 10-20% of the games successfully emulated thru h/w ...
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 11:59

  • ratso #74 5 years ago

    thats the final straw, a broken ps3 for a higher price

  • jiroczech #75 5 years ago

    'kin hell. Talk about putting a positive spin on things. "Europer gets new PS3 hardware" makes it sound nice, like they're putting something extra in there for us. You tarts!

  • jmcoo7 #76 5 years ago

    "buy a 360 and wii"

    I have a wii but i dumped my xbox 360 after if malfunctioned and had to be replaced , might get the new higher spec one when released b4 xmas .

  • bonker #77 5 years ago

    "as i've written elsewhere on the forum:

    it wouldn't surprise me at all if there never was a blu ray diode shortage.

    and the only reason that sony delayed the european release was to reduce the ps2 hardware in the ps3 to more of a software solution for significant savings on the cost of production of the console.

    i guess we'll never know the real reason for the euro delay but being a cynical bastard i know what i think it is... "

    Good call - makes sense to me and very believable ...

  • tonynibbles #78 5 years ago

    So they've taken the Emotion Engine out and replaced it with an inferior PS2 software emulator?

    gah!

  • chupachups #79 5 years ago

    "And guess what? it will still sell out, why i hear you ask? well because its a PLAYSTATION 3 init. "

    That's what people said would happen in Japan and America, and it didn't happen. On the other hand the Wii DID sell out in both countries, and continues to be very difficult to find anywhere in the world.

    It's interesting that the Wii pre-orders on Amazon UK sold out almost immediately and the Wii is still sold out months after the actual release, but the PS3 pre-orders are still being taken days after they were made available.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:05

  • enzima #80 5 years ago

    "Europe gets new PS3 hardware"

    Great spin, EG!!!!!!!!!! Bravo!!!!!!!! Might as well say: After you get a big delay, and a bigger price, and no option between models, Sony loves Europe soooooo much that will make a lighter Ps3 for you: we´ll just take some parts off!!!!!
    Great deal, bless you Sony, thanx for opening my eyes!

  • psychokitten #81 5 years ago

    MS got a lot of slack over BC, and it was lacking, but they didn't release it in US and Japan and then screw Europe over. That's really the problem here.

    The whole press statement could have been slimmed down to just:

    "Dear Europe,

    F*ck you.

    Not-Love,
    Sony"

  • SBfistfun #82 5 years ago

    focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3," said David Reeves, president of SCEE.

    Bullshit.

    Same games as PS2+ shine

    Ohh another wipeout another F1, how could I say no?!

  • Derblington #83 5 years ago

    "I have just cancelled my pre-order"

    LOL

  • Beano #84 5 years ago

    "Great spin, EG!!!!!!!!!! Bravo!!!!!!!!"

    Or maybe EG just requires visitors to read more than the headline?

  • DanMW #85 5 years ago

    Me too, thanks Sony you've saved me a load of Łs.

  • MBar #86 5 years ago

    No, stupid Sony! Dig up!

    Sony must've shot itself in the foot so often now that in the future we'll have to say they shot themselves in the stump where their foot used to be.

  • enzima #87 5 years ago

    @ Beano
    Or *maybe* the world new implies a newer and better model?

  • moggsy #88 5 years ago

    The only possible reason for them to do this is so that they can do a price reduction within a few months of launch. Pre-ordering must be going worse than anyone has speculated!

    Pre-orderers beware - you're paying over the odds for your hardware! Be patient, wait a few months and I reckon you'll save Ł50+.

  • Weezer #89 5 years ago

    Jeez - a PS3 is a really expensive way of playing old PS2 games when Asda are selling new PS2s for Ł50. And assuming you have some PS2 games you must have a PS2 knocking around somewhere.

    [EDIT] Don't get me wrong. I still think Sony are wanktards of the highest order. Just how many poison barbs can they attach to their corporate cock before Europeans stop taking it up their arse?
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:21

  • Garulon #90 5 years ago

    "MS got a lot of slack over BC, and it was lacking, but they didn't release it in US and Japan and then screw Europe over. That's really the problem here."

    To the extent that none of the regions got decent BC coverage, yeah, but there's quite a few BC titles on the 360 SOUL CALIBUR II FOR A START - that work in the US but not Japan/Europe :(

  • #91 5 years ago

    I vote for an article title change!

    /votes

  • Nobuo #92 5 years ago

    What irritates me most is that they're not revealing the (crappy?) BC list until it's launched... I think that's the most underhanded thing about this whole mess.

    Not as annoying as people who repeatedly cancel pre-orders in comments threads though.

  • #93 5 years ago

    I vote for an article title change!

    /votes again

  • psychokitten #94 5 years ago

    /doublevote

  • mkreku #95 5 years ago

    I think the reason they're not releasing the BC list until launch is that they're still working on it, not to fool people this time.

  • Derblington #96 5 years ago

    Why do we need a new article title? We are getting a new hardware model and PS2 bc support is now limited... What's wrong with it?

  • lefizz #97 5 years ago

    This is just typical of Sony,

    I really haven't got words to express how i feel towards then now.
    OK so we pay twice the price as the japanese for a system without a ps2 inside for backwards compatibilty. Great, doyou want me to pick up the soap now?

    The bigger issue is of course the fact this won't be widely advertised and so they will be in real trouble come launch day. I guarantee a shit load of issues and even more bad press. I mean with the launch line up your pretty much guaranteed that a lot of people will be such playing ps2 games till something decent comes out.

    I can seriously see, Sun headlines a few days after launch, and lets be honest with that price, that launch lineup and all the other crap what Sony really needs is some more bad press.

    I mean if MS can only just emulate a xbox with all there software expertise how the fuck are Sony gonna pull it off.

    Ps i liked the stump comments that just about nails it.

    Ninty and MS are gonna rule this gen i think that pretty much assured now.

  • DCrider360 #98 5 years ago

    to ANYONE who's been holding out for a PS3:




    YOUV'E BEEN PUNKD!

  • Geowolf #99 5 years ago

    Well, I guess waiting for a price drop doesn't even matter anymore. I've now no incentive to pick up a PS3 to even serve my back catalogue of PS2 games. I think I'll pick up a new PS2 in the near future as a backup for my games.

    Look at the advantages: the PS2 is backwards compatible. It's massively cheaper. It's still got great games coming out for it. Most importantly though, it's a games machine.

    Let's see the fanboys turn a positive spin on this PS3 news. Not only is it released later but it's even less functional than it's American and Japanese counterparts. Ouch. This makes 360's attempts at B/C noble in comparison and the Wii's attempt absolutely heroic.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:27

  • PeterM #100 5 years ago

    Ahh the ol' bait n switch!

  • Moonprince #101 5 years ago

    Ps1 on the PSP works well. Perhaps it will be the same for PS2>PS3

    - Not that I know the workings behind these emulators and the difficulties involved sooooo...

  • sandys #102 5 years ago

    I know it sounds extreme to cancel my pre-order but one of the beautiful things about the PS3 over my Xbox360 was that it was one unit that could do all, who wants console after console in the front room to play all the old but still good stuff, having blue ray was also a plus because its not another unsightly box like the X360 HD DVD drive, and after the crap I have had getting some of my fave Xbox games to work on X360 I saw the PS3 as a magical machine, full compatibility with everything I own on the Sony side. :(

    That they can't even show whats compatible annoys me further so I cancelled, the kicker for me was this was going to be my move to HD with a nice 1080p Bravia (which I have cancelled too as Sony have annoyed me too much, I am quite a tolerant guy normally) I was looking forward to this PS3 but everything is going against it. Arse, Arse, Arse.

    just have to put up with my substandard noise box 360 for now.

  • chupachups #103 5 years ago

    "Why do we need a new article title? We are getting a new hardware model"

    New implies with added features, not removed features.

    A better title would be "Europe gets BC-crippled PS3"

  • jiroczech #104 5 years ago

    /votes

    How about "Europe get less PS3 hardware"?

  • Foxclose #105 5 years ago

    I have being holding out for a PS3, and I don't care about this one single bit!!

    PS2 for PS2 games and a PS3 for PS3 games. BC doesn't work properly in both the PS2 and the Xbox 360, so why bother?
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:28

  • mkreku #106 5 years ago

    "Europe gets less PS3 hardware for higher price" would have been a bit more accurate title for this news article.

  • Beano #107 5 years ago

    "Or *maybe* the world new implies a newer and better model?"

    I agree... but calling the article "spin" purely based on the headline is nonsense.

  • Eighthours #108 5 years ago

    This bit in Sony's press release clearly indicates that the problem is going to be quite bad in regard to PS2 titles:

    The European PS3 will feature the Cell Broadband Engine™, 60 GB hard disc drive, Blu-ray Disc player, built-in Wi-Fi connectivity, SIXAXIS™ wireless controller. It also embodies a new combination of hardware and software emulation which will enable PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation® (PS) titles and a limited range of PlayStation®2 (PS2) titles.

    Look at the use of language there compared to their description of the PS1 backwards compatibility.

  • Beano #109 5 years ago

    "I think the reason they're not releasing the BC list until launch is that they're still working on it, not to fool people this time. "

    Or maybe the emulator is not finished yet...

  • andrewwd #110 5 years ago

    I also agree that the article has a very misleading headline.

    I think there are enough accusations of bias on this website, there seems little reason to court it further.

  • enzima #111 5 years ago

    /votes

  • step #112 5 years ago

    I like how they're not going to tell you what's actually compatible until it's out:

    "Users will be able to check whether their titles are compatible with PS3 at http://faq.eu.plays tation.com/bc. This site will be available on 23rd March to meet launch day."

    Do they not know? Or just don't want people to know?

  • trevd72 #113 5 years ago

    i cant even be arsed to be upset by sony these days.....it just tells me they are going to jerks us around for the next 5 years with updates, prices, network implementation and release date etc

  • Derblington #114 5 years ago

    "New implies with added features, not removed features."

    Really? I always took it mean it was released more recently than the older one. Like the 13 different models of fat PS2s before the PStwo was released. None of which did anything particularly different.
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 12:34

  • Beano #115 5 years ago

    "Look at the use of language there compared to their description of the PS1 backwards compatibility."

    I agree - that's a huge displaimer!

    "limited range of PlayStation 2 titles." translates to "you are shit out of luck if you want to play PlayStation 2 games!"

  • WhyMeeeeee #116 5 years ago

    i love my 360 and hd dvd drive.

    i see amazon and play still can't shift their pre order allocation.

  • enzima #117 5 years ago

    @ andrewwd
    you are right, and believe me, i really enjoy the site. But this title.....man, lets be honest, it stinks!

  • blueseagull #118 5 years ago

    How come this story isn't lead on EG?!

  • trevd72 #119 5 years ago

    eurogamer have used some questionable headlines of late and do seem to lack journalism by simply rehashing statements. Frankly this is a big deal. If i was still getting my PS3 i would have been flogging my ps2 and the pads and stuff to raise money for it.....this stops me from diong that. Also we get less for more, they spin it by sayings its new so therefore better and there are people out there who like to keep the little ones entertained with older games that are cheap as chips. BC is not so useless.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:41

  • jiroczech #120 5 years ago

    There used to be some editorial comment on here, not just regurgitated press releases. How about some journalism?

  • enzima #121 5 years ago

    At least before they used irony, but as i said already, they probably lost their sense of humour when it comes to Sony! Its just too depressing :p

  • #122 5 years ago

    I'm 100% with Jiro. I understand the need to get it onto the front page quickly but it's a very sterile news article for a fairly explosive story.

    I love it when EG get all sarcy about stuff, more sarcasm please.

    Oh, and change the article title to better reflect what it's about, it's not the new hardware that's the big story, it's the missing functionality.

    erm.... constructive criticism mode OFF

    :)

  • AbyssUK #123 5 years ago

    I wonder how long SCEE knew about this ?? I bet it was before shops started taking deposits for preorders... sneaky very sneaky

    AbyssUK

    oh and EG have a great relationship with SCEE so why should they p*** them off, plenty of other sites will do that for them.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:44

  • Beano #124 5 years ago

    "Oh, and change the article title to better reflect what it's about, it's not the new hardware that's the big story, it's the missing functionality. "

    Can't really see the big deal, guys!

    The sub-title clearly says "PS2 game support limited." so it sould be quite easy to understand that it's about a new PS3 what has limited PS2 compatibility.

    But yes... maybe a headline along the lines of "Euro PS3 with limited PS2 support" would be better.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:46

  • ThreeOutsideDown #125 5 years ago

    jiroczech wrote:
    There used to be some editorial comment on here, not just regurgitated press releases. How about some journalism?
    decent journalism isn't needed once a website's readership is large enough.

    once the userbase is large enough, people will come to the site just to read regurgitated press releases, if they're getting them fast enough.

    oh for the good ole days, i remember when all these message boards were just green open fields...

    ;-)

  • BigE0n #126 5 years ago

    It really should say 'revised' hardware not 'new' hardware

    Also Sony could be using the removal of hardware BC not just as a cost cutting exercise, but as someone earlier pointed out to force you to rebuy PS2 and PS1 titles (via download) to play on the PS3

    They could then market that as a posative too i.e.
    The machine having a 'HUGE downloadable on demand games library of XXXX+ games available' rather than 100% bc for old games.

    Just a thought....

  • trevd72 #127 5 years ago

    this kinda decision would have been made months ago because of the manufacturing process surely

  • chupachups #128 5 years ago

    If this is a cost-cutting measure, wouldn't it have made sense to announce it in conjunction with a lower price?

    Even a small reduction and this announcement would have seemed more acceptable.

  • pretence #129 5 years ago

    People slagging the headline have serious anger issues and are slightly retarded, especially considering the line DIRECTLY under the headline states "PS2 game support limited." What is the problem ffs, are you that stupid not to figure out the story. In short get a life people...

    /sees Beano beat me too it.... points at Beano, "he said it, not me!"
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 12:50

  • bioreit #130 5 years ago

    @ Garulon

    "there's quite a few BC titles on the 360 SOUL CALIBUR II FOR A START - that work in the US but not Japan/Europe :( "

    Actually, having just gone through the US and UK lists (didn’t do Japan, admittedly), Soul Calibur II is the only game that is not on both. The lists are in a slightly different order – apparently the Americans don’t understand alphabetical order – and don’t get me wrong; I’m livid that SCII isn’t compatible.

    But between the two regions, it’s only that one game…

  • mkreku #131 5 years ago

    Gamespot had a better headline for this:

    "PS3 less backwards-compatible in Europe?"

    Also, the article was much more well-written and actually touched the interesting parts of the Sony press release.

    http://ww w.gamespot.com/news/6166312.htm...

  • Dyler #132 5 years ago

    I wonder if Phil Harrisson will update his comments about BC...

    http://ww w.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_...

  • enzima #133 5 years ago

    @ pretence
    Man, how pathetic you are....

  • #134 5 years ago

    @pretence

    It was a bit of constructive criticism, get over it, hardly worthy of your ffs ridden rant.

    meh

  • SBfistfun #135 5 years ago

    "I wonder if Phil Harrisson will update his comments about BC.."

    "Im a big twat" might be a good start..

  • trevd72 #136 5 years ago

    @pretence - its poor copy and adds further to the spin of the whole thing. The journalism on here is getting worse and its things like this headline that prove it. I trust the reviews to an extent and i enjoy the banter but the news side is slipping.

  • bloodflowers #137 5 years ago

    I wonder if the performance of PS2 titles will be affected too, really depends what the issue is.

    Oh, and for the record - I hope the machine fails dismally, down to 33% market share. They deserve it.

  • jiroczech #138 5 years ago

    Phil Harrison, Executive Vice President of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE):

    "Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer."

    Took me about 2 seconds to find that. Stick it in the article up against the new press release and straight away, without having to make any snarky remarks, you've got a story. People can draw their own conclusions as to what it says about Sony - you don't have to go offending anyone to make it newsworthy.

  • richardiox #139 5 years ago

    So the Euro model has a new Chassis to bring manufacturing costs down and yet costs more than the Japanese and US versions??

    If this announcement coincided with a price cut then fair enough but i cant help but think these savings are being passed to other territories or to subsidise the reduced PS3 price in Japan.

  • Killerbee #140 5 years ago

    I really, truly am struggling to believe this. Sony went to great lengths to tout the PS3's backwards compatibility and then suddenly it's stripped away. And I'm sorry, but BC is important to me - the PS2 is enjoying a fantastic swansong (I've just been out to buy FFXII) and at the same time Sony seem to be suggesting we all don't buy a PS3 stick with our old PS2s if we want to play those games. And that's before we even get to thinking about our old games collections and classics like ICO, Okami and Shadow of the Colossus…

    If this is Sony's way forward then, it really is a much more stark choice between the 360 and PS3 (everyone should own a Wii, regardless!), based on the new software that's out for them. I can live with the high price (it'll come down eventually), I don't mind Blu-ray and I can even bear it being late, but although I've said all along I will get a PS3 *eventually*, right now I'm starting to wonder whether I'd be mad not to switch my allegiance to the 360…

  • trevd72 #141 5 years ago

    @bloodflowers - i agree cos then they may start to treat us like valued customers then. We made sony they need to remember that, without us they are nothing look at what we did to sega adn atari when they took the piss.

  • trevd72 #142 5 years ago

    @jiroczech-you should apply for a job on here.

  • mowgli #143 5 years ago

    I would say that, if you are going to spend 400+ on a new console your not going to be playing bc games on it!
    But there is fuck all else left to play.

    Mind you ill be buying one, last minute ebay plebs. Your paying my student fees. Thank you.

  • DanMW #144 5 years ago

    To me this looks like a mess, very unprofessional, but since it's coming from Sony I'm am not surprised in the least.

  • enzima #145 5 years ago

    I would have loved Okami, GoW2 and Godhand on ps3. No biggie, i´ll just stick to my ps2 (and wii, 360, ds, psp, pc) and let sony be cooked in their own soup (its an italian expression, i hope i translated it right). Then, after a price drop, we´ll see...

  • Kon #146 5 years ago

    If PS2 BC is really further impaired on european machines, then i can truely say that i will NOT be buying a PS3 until it's for sale for less than 300€. Replacing my PS2 was the main pull for me to get a PS3 ATM.

    Way to go again Sony.

  • captain-future #147 5 years ago

    OK, I was among the first to say B/C on X360: who cares anyway? I think not many people really use B/C in the first place on Microsoft consoles.

    Yet it's a point that Sony tried to make all along that their box is almost 99.9% b/c.

    So, I'll stand with my opinion B/C is NOT a big deal to gamers, nice to have yes, but not really essential.

    What angers me is that Microsoft at least gives every customer the same box (prices may vary between JP/US/EU) - yet Sony basically does not only bring their product later, more expensive to EU but also the fuck with the quality of the product? That's really bad business practice.

    Also I want choice and the 20GB version.

  • Beano #148 5 years ago

    For the first time, I'm actually in doubt if I wan't to buy a PS3 at launch.

    Yes the price is high but I can afford it and personally didn't have a problem with it. But I feel directly cheated that I have to pay more AND get a down-scaled product compared to US/JAP consumers.

    Maybe I'll stick to my 360, Wii and PS2 for at least a year until the PS3 sees a major price-drop.

  • #149 5 years ago

    My name is Phil Harrison, and it's great to be on stage at 'Comedian for a day'

    ...On Backwards Compatibility

    [The PS3 will have] almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, but we believe those will be even less than we saw from PSOne to PS2.

    "Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

    "If the developer wrote the game according to our technical requirements checklist, we will have what we believe will be almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, there always are, but we believe those will be very few and far between. Even less so than we saw from PSOne to PS2."

    ...On Microsoft's Difficulties with Xbox 360 Backward Compatibility

    "I don't believe that was backwards compatibility."

  • pretence #150 5 years ago

    @trevd72 you obviously see some sort of threat from the headline... it only adds spin if someone was to read the headline and then not read any further... don't see the problem to be honest or understand what exactly your getting angry about...

  • agparrot #151 5 years ago

    and the very next sentence from Phil Harrison - shown here by jiroczech from the link to gamepro, runs:

    "And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

    It is Big Phil saying it is 'necessary'

    My brother, incidentally, has just cancelled his preorder. I didn't ever have one, because I'm just too cash-strapped to stretch to this post-Wii, but if I did, I can't say I wouldn't be tempted to cancel mine...

  • bigbras #152 5 years ago

    I have read the comments setion for years but never made a post, so here goes... I think it's about time:

    I suppose when I first heard about the PS3 (a good 18+ months ago now?) I was kind of excited, and it would be fair to say I was a Sony fan boy at that time.

    Each month since then I have lost more and more interest in the PS3. It's hard to put my finger on a particular reason. The price (for me) was 'ok' because I am quite interested in Blu-Ray. I know not all of you are of course, this is a gaming forum after all, which is fair enough. For me though, I was happy to pay the price because of the Blu-Ray functionality.

    I have now reached the point where I almost couldnt care less about the PS3. I'll try and think of some things which have made me feel the way I do;

    - Each system update is lame. You'd have thought that by now they would have implemented some decent online functionality.
    - The price reduction in Japan was a slap in the face, coupled with the higher price we have to pay *anyway* over here. It is over and above the import duty by quite some margin.
    - The new Xbox 360 that is coming out next month is appealing to me because of it's HDMI socket and rumoured 120GB drive option etc... etc.. I must admit, I like the implemenation of Xbox Live + Arcade.
    - The slap in face with regard to backwards compatability. Not only are we paying over and above for the hardware, but now its LESS hardware.
    - Personally, I find the tilt controller is lame. Should have just stuck with a fecking Dual Shock 2. I guess they want the peripheral sales though!
    - Lack of exclusive games that I NEED to be able to play.
    - Being completely honest, the hardware looks a bit naff in my opinion.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not an Xbox360 fanboy OR a PS3 fanboy at the moment, but I am just not excited about PS3 at all as a games machine. The only way I will consider buying one is for Blu-Ray playing OR if Metal Gear Solid / DMC / GTA are exclusives - which 1/2 at least will not be.

    So as a formor Sony fanboy, Will I get a PS3? Not anytime soon. Will I get an Xbox360? Yes, as soon as the new revision hardware is available (ironically for my new Sony X series LCD TV lol). Eighteen months ago I never thought I would be buying an Xbox 360 before a PS3. Never ever.


    Sean

  • Laserbream #153 5 years ago

    They should have gone with software emulation from the start if that was their heart's desire. Would have saved on some manufacturing costs too, and perhaps lowered the final price.

    The sad thing is the average consumer will never be aware of paying more for less. They'll swallow the spin and accept the dismal software BC without ever knowing that Japan and the US received superior hardware for less money.

  • Darren #154 5 years ago

    I am very pissed off at this decision by Sony to remove or cripple PS2 emulation on the PS3 as one of the reasons for me buying one at launch was so I could play games like God of War II and Final Fantasy XII among others as I no longer own a PS2. I'm absolutely certain that Sony promised at E3 2006 (or it might have been 2005) that the PS3 would be 100% backward compatible with PSone and PS2 games and the news from the US and Japan was that this was almost true bar some issues with certain games.

    So not only do we Europeans get the PS3 four months after the US and Japan *and* have to pay a much higher price but we also get a cutdown machine so Sony can make more money out of us suckers!

    Why do Sony always shaft Europe?

  • OhWiseOne #155 5 years ago

    So if I'm reading this correct:

    US/JP they stick in the PS1/2 chips to achieve almost 98% BC, but at a siginificant cost. Buying them time to work on a software solution for Europe.

    Europe gets the dodgy software solution which'll be maybe 60% BC, but they save what $25 per console? And yet again p*ss off the poor Sony Fanbois, and make the Wii60 boys rejoice.

    What is going on at SCEE?

    It's like watching a train wreck in super High Def slow mo.

  • Darren #156 5 years ago

    That's right Sony saves money on each European machine sold but we're still having to pay more than what the US and Japan pay for theirs.

    Great being a European, ain't it? /rolls eyes

  • agparrot #157 5 years ago

    It's like watching a train wreck in super High Def slow mo

    /guffaws coffee into lap

  • agparrot #158 5 years ago

    Incidentally, bigbras, I am entirely of a mind with you on this, but I just cannot be arsed to sit and type out what you have done, so I will just agree with you, because I feel the same way.

    I was sad enough to bug my local Comet for my Launch PS2 - outside before opening time for preorders and on launch day. That PS2 is still working (apart from Disgaea and occasional PES4 issues), so I guess I'm sticking with it and Wii until I can pick up a PS3 for Ł50 in Asda.

    Or I win the lottery.

  • trevd72 #159 5 years ago

    BC allows you to move to the next console easier. Like i said before you can sell your old kit to subsidise the inflated price and play keep playing your recently bought games and the excellent ones yet to come (who wants to miss out on God of War2)

    Also for those of us with kids, it lets us keep them happy for cheap. Its is an issue for the first year especially when Sony have banged that drum so hard...

  • bigbras #160 5 years ago

    Yeah, I'm happy with my party console Wii at the moment. I've had sooo much fun with it so far. :)


    Sean

  • enzima #161 5 years ago

    It's like watching a train wreck in super High Def slow mo

    No, please. It´s like watching a train wreck in TRUE HD slow mo. :p

  • RatBastard #162 5 years ago

    How come this does not become primetime news? Chili con Carnage is hardly that exciting. How much did Sony pay?

  • Gnort #163 5 years ago

    As I type this, UK Resistance are no doubt wetting themselves with joy.

  • chupachups #164 5 years ago

    "No. They know Europe will buy. ... European consumers who will flock to it regardless."

    They "knew" America would buy, they "knew" Japan would buy. The PS2 had the overwhelming majority of the home console market in both those countries.

    What happened?

    Despite tiny launch allocations in both countries, the PS3 failed to sell out in either, and in Japan you can buy a PS3 for as little as Ł150 in some stores. The PS3 is now being outsold three to one by the Nintendo Wii, which comes from a manufacturer who had a pathetic market share last time round.

    This brainless sleepwalking "they will buy the new playstation whatever it costs" mentality is exactly how Sony ended up in this mess, they paid no attention whatsoever to the price.

  • mattigan #165 5 years ago

    Post from Yahoo News ""Sony is managing expectations by saying now that the new console will play fewer of the old games, and that's a good thing," said analyst Alex Kwiatowski at British market research group Vertical Market Technologies."

    Only some guys on the UKR forum have looked up Vertical Market Technologies and according to companies house - they don't exist.

    I call shenanigans!!!!!

    It's another "all I want for Xmas is a PSP" marketing effort to try and limit the damage of this announcement, poor show Sony.


  • in5ane #166 5 years ago

    "they "knew" Japan would buy"

    Actuellement, they knew the Japs wouldn't go for it, hence the eleventh-hour price cut in that region (and that region alone).

  • psychokitten #167 5 years ago

    re: Vertical Market Technologies

    Well, I don't buy that personally, they could operate under a slightly different name or something. Then again I wouldn't put it past Sony to make up a research group, considering this little incident:

    http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment...
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 13:48

  • oreillymj #168 5 years ago

    Sony have just lost a loyal PS1/PS2 purchaser. I've waited over a fucking year for this thing and I do expect it to do what the original spec promised.

    It was flagged that the EE h/w was a late addition due to the fact that the emulation software was late and the it would be removed once that software was complete.
    How it seems that Sony's software engineers aren't up to the job and they're just going give up on b/c.

    Why don't they hire some of the hacker's on the net who are up to the job.

    Anyway, fuck them, they strung me along for a year. As the The Who once said "I won't be fooled again" I'll buy a 360 and have rumble. I'll maybe buy a Blu-Ray player when the proce drops to ~€150.

    And I won't be fucking back for the PS4. That's if Sony are still in the console business.

    /shakes head and looks around the room for something cheap & breakable.

  • jonsaan #169 5 years ago

    Maybe they could also make it a little less ugly???

  • bonker #170 5 years ago

    "I vote for an article title change!

    /votes again "

    /Suggests "Sony arse-fucks Europe then tells us 'now suck on it bitch!'"

  • McFly55 #171 5 years ago

    "Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology."

    Surely this is a load of shite? Wont they have to spend more time on PS2 games getting them compatible with the software emulation now, seeing as they dont have a chip in it that runs 98% of the back catalogue?

  • chupachups #172 5 years ago

    "Actuellement, they knew the Japs wouldn't go for it, hence the eleventh-hour price cut in that region (and that region alone)."

    ...only at the eleventh hour, much like this cost-reducing Euro-modification we're talking about now. The PS3 was designed and priced well before the launch anywhere.

    They wouldn't have designed such an expensive console if they knew all along that the Japanese wouldn't buy it, that would have been absolutely crazy.

  • Martin_feltches_men #173 5 years ago

    I would like Sony to rename the console to Eurostation 3 as it clearly is not a proper Playstation 3

  • bonker #174 5 years ago

    "If this is a cost-cutting measure, wouldn't it have made sense to announce it in conjunction with a lower price?

    Even a small reduction and this announcement would have seemed more acceptable. "

    That reduction is defo on its way and I think it will be very significant, maybe even as much as Ł100 - Summer at the latest I reckon ...

  • Martin_feltches_men #175 5 years ago

    Are they going to fill the hole where the emotion chip was with a proper grill?

  • rick_x #176 5 years ago

    CANCEL YOUR PRE-ORDER....simple, hit them where it hurts, if we all do it then they have to take notice (or go bust)

  • aabyssx #177 5 years ago

    I'm really trying to enjoy FFXII at the moment but having fun on a Sony system at this time seems wrong and makes me feel dirty, so I've hidden my PS2 behind my 360 power supply so it's presents disgraces me no longer :(


    LOL

  • Martin_feltches_men #178 5 years ago

    europe is sonys bitch...

    Sony: Bend over and squeal like a pig Europe
    Europe: Be mean to me Sony, i love it when you drop your anchor in my brown bay

  • mattigan #179 5 years ago

    @Martin_feltches_men

    LOL

    At the post and your name!!

    :D

  • AcidSnake #180 5 years ago

    Wow...I go away for a few hours and this happens...

    Well...I think that this might even be a necessary step by Sony....
    To tell you the truth I'm thinking that they might be going bankrupt..

    That would explain this wholesomely stupid move...
    By leaving the hardware emulation out and using the software emulation they have made to correct the JAP/USA hardware emulation they are saving a few bucks...
    So less compatibility, but more money saved...
    I'm seeing this as desperation really...

    Honestly this is going very wrong very fast for Sony...
    Too bad...Some say they deserve it for their superiority complex...But they have given us a lot of gaming joy over the years...

    Also I haven't read all posts up until now, but if there's a different chassis then does that mean that the model will look different as well?
    Weird...

  • Garulon #181 5 years ago

    "Are they going to fill the hole where the emotion chip was with a proper grill? "

    They'll probably stuff it with newspaper or something. Or a device that sprays acid in your face.

  • agparrot #182 5 years ago

    At least it is another friday where some of the comments are giving me a great laugh. Thanks Sony, and the subsequent posts from you lot.

  • in5ane #183 5 years ago

    "They wouldn't have designed such an expensive console if they knew all along that the Japanese wouldn't buy it, that would have been absolutely crazy."

    Not as crazy as you suggest. Sony *always* knew they were going to make a loss on the PS3, and it was simply this figure getting a bit bigger just before launch.

    I think they realised they misjudged the Japanese audience, and needed the price cut to at least 'sell out' at launch to their home audience. Cutting the launch numbers also helped :)

  • Martin_feltches_men #184 5 years ago

    chassis

    'A general term that refers to all of the mechanical parts of a car attached to a structural frame. In cars with unitized construction, the chassis comprises everything but the body of the car'

    replace the word car with Eurostation3 and you will understand that the appearence wont change...just the insides...which will be full of air...expensive Sony air...and little else

  • neil_likes_bums #185 5 years ago

    Introducing the PlayStation Free(of any features)

    You too can enjoy not being able to play that back catalogue! All for a stunning, bargain price which happens to be 500x what anybody else in the world pays for it! Hurrah! Thank you Sony, and welcome to the Next Generation of arse f**king Europe.

  • agparrot #186 5 years ago

    lol

    So... the Next Gen is starting when Sony Say so?

  • Your_Dumb_Child #187 5 years ago

    I'm not bothered about the backwards capabilities of any PS3 to be honest. I've got a chipped PS2 that plays all versions of PS2 titles (NTSC/UC/J/PAL) and thats better than any backwards capability.

    Anyway, when i get the system it'll be imported, just for the fact you can get it cheaper.

  • drumbaby #188 5 years ago

    Oh ffs...I'm tempted to cancel the preorder now...seriously. :(

  • jiroczech #189 5 years ago

    Euro PS3 to include limited support for PS3 titles.

    "Nobody plays ALL the releases anyway" says Phil Harrison.

  • AcidSnake #190 5 years ago

    @Martin_feltches_men :
    Ah ok, thanks...
    I always thought the chassis was the outer shell...

    Too bad, I still say that the PS3 is damn ugly...

  • lefizz #191 5 years ago

    Why doesnt someone do sony a favor and set up an e-petition to either

    a:)put back in backwards compatibility and cut the price to that of the 360

    or

    b:) fuck right off

  • enzima #192 5 years ago

    I think that by releasing such good titles for ps 2 lately, Sony even made it worst....cuz now i really care about BC, since i want to play Okami, God Hand and GoW2. And I dont want to keep wii, 360, ps3 AND ps2 all connected to my tv. I guess untill my ps2 will live, i´m not gonna buy a ps3. Good move, Sony!

  • Nobuo #193 5 years ago

    Did Amazon UK always have the 20GB option online?

  • JediMasterMalik #194 5 years ago

    I think people should wait to see which titles are compatible before we all blow our caskets, no?

  • enzima #195 5 years ago

    @ Nobuo
    Errrr.....that I know, it never existed the 20 GB model in Europe. Ever.

  • agparrot #196 5 years ago

    I would have thought that Eurogamer... being, as they are, fine upstanding representative of us Europeans, would be the perfect people to start a Petition.

    It could be like the competition to win a PS3... but actually bothering to publish the results!

  • agparrot #197 5 years ago

    I think people should wait to see which titles are compatible before we all blow our caskets, no?

    Yes... but we have to wait until the thing actually comes out, and for those people clinging to their preorders, this may be a little late?

  • enzima #198 5 years ago

    @ JediMasterMalik
    On the other hand, i guess we cannot consider ourselves lucky, no?
    I know you´re desperate to protect Sony, but how can you be satisfied with this move, is beyond me....

  • Jamaicangmr #199 5 years ago

    Yeah really, instead of blowing this out of proportion why not wait for a list of games? Quite over reacting guys, this isn't as bad as you think or as bad as many would want you to believe.

  • #200 5 years ago

    Jamaicangmr said:

    Yeah really, instead of blowing this out of proportion why not wait for a list of games? Quite over reacting guys, this isn't as bad as you think or as bad as many would want you to believe.

    With Sony, things generally turn out for the worst, so you can forive the cynicism flying around.

  • Martin_feltches_men #201 5 years ago

    wait you say? wait!!!

    Do you work for arse bludgering Sony?

    They say wait...the longer we wait, the greater goes it costs, the less we get.

    next week they will tell us europeans we have to collect our own Eurostations from the factory in China and that we have to pay for the priviledge!

  • neil_likes_bums #202 5 years ago

    I'm glad I didn't wait over a year for the "real next gen", for a console with "real backwards compatibility".

    Why are people here happy to pay more than other release areas, for less features? I don't understand how some people seem to think this is OK, and that we should wait for a list because it'll all be OK and hey it's sunny outside, oh god bless us this fine day.

  • AcidSnake #203 5 years ago

    Actually it is bad...The level of bad just depends on the list of incompatible games...
    The maths are quite simple..

    Europe pays more for less capable hardware...
    And the list of incompatible games is very subjective...
    If most EG regulars see that little brittain is not compatible they wouldn't care, even though a lot of other users would...
    So regardless it cannot be seen as a good move, apart from Sony who need to cut corners wherever they can...

  • Les #204 5 years ago

    No full PS2 backwards compatibility = no PS3 sold to me (at least not before FF XIII is released).

    “This brainless sleepwalking "they will buy the new playstation whatever it costs" mentality is exactly how Sony ended up in this mess, they paid no attention whatsoever to the price.”

    The main problem of the PS3 is not the cost. It’s the fact that Sony isn’t able to convince the masses that it offers something valuable that they can’t get on the PS2. The Wii offers something genuinely different (although right now it’s more promise than fact) that people want.

    If cost were the main problem than 360s should sell about as well as the Wii, the Cube should be the best selling console, and that is not the case.

  • trevd72 #205 5 years ago

    @Jamaicangmr but why should we get short changed. We get less for more and much later. Its a clear sign of things to come!!

  • Martin_feltches_men #206 5 years ago

    i want a playstation 2 nipple chip in my Eurostation! how am i going to get fat on Sony Milk without it!
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 14:45

  • orakio #207 5 years ago

    Being a non-sony suporter, I can only say that I as well hope that their limitless ego will have sony be hit in the face hard.

    However, Knowing europe, this console will sell. It will sell so hard you couldn't even say "x-box 360" before the next batch of consoles will be sold out. Why? because most european gamers are not as knowledgeable as the people here, on eurogamer. You could go on the street and ask any youngster what they think of the PS3 and 9/10 people won't serve a decent answer. Sony knows this. They have known since the success of the PS1 that europe is where the money is for them. Hell, they don't have those hundreds of well-paid marketeers to do nothing all day!

  • Jamaicangmr #208 5 years ago

    @ Mapster

    I understand that but we just gotta hear the full story before we cry fire. I've read post claiming that the BC of the PS3 will be just as bad as the Xbox360. This person doesn't know anymore than the rest of us why make such an assumption? Lets all relax and read the list before we get upset. I'm disapointed myself but to what degree depends on how good the list of BC games are. Understand what am saying?

  • Fiach #209 5 years ago

    Can't wait to see what launch day in Europe will be like. Probably have to run a gauntlet to the counter with Sony execs beating you with big sticks :p

    I've been resisting the preasure from friends to get a 360 but this is just going too far. People who use the backwards compatability may be a minority but I happen to be one of them. And we still have a month to go before launch. What will they do next?

  • TheJanitor #210 5 years ago

    how is a different chassis gonna change the backwards comp? lol smells like bs to me.

  • Martin_feltches_men #211 5 years ago

    what will they do next?? they will remove the bluetooth...you will be left to your own devices to transmit data from the controller to the console...by shouting strings of binary at the thing

  • Rizo #212 5 years ago

    Just cancelled my pre-order the guy at game thought I was mad.

    What angers me the most is sony has been making euro speked PS3 for a few months now and the decision to remove this feature must have been taken a few months before that.

    Why tell us now?

    i will still be buying a PS3 but only when the price is below Ł200.

  • Jamaicangmr #213 5 years ago

    @ trevd72

    Am not sayin this is a good thing all am sayin is before we form a mob lets see to what degree will it be BC. Maybe am just tryin to understand whats going on rather than do the easy thing of just gettin mad.

  • trevd72 #214 5 years ago

    @Fiach get a 360 cos they are cheap now and have an excellent selection of games and Live! rocks. Playasia do some cheap imports too like r6:v fear and Saints Row (which has stopped me playing San Andreas cos its easier on you with mission restarts).

    the next gen started nov 2005 if i remember right and you dont have to get hd dvd if you dont want too.

  • quantumsheep #215 5 years ago

    After what Mr. Harrison said (and it's been quoted many times further back in these very comments) this does seem like a drastic step backwards.

    God forbid they announce that they've taken the blue ray player out of the Euro version too and kept the price the same ;)

    But seriously, I'm sure that all upcoming/recently released titles will be BC - I'm talking about FFXII, GOW2, Okami etc


    I think we'll all be surprised (or maybe not) that it *doesn't* sell out in Europe.

    And while true that less informed people than us lot may not even know about BC, some will assume it's there and others will ask at point of purchase.

    But I don't think the 'uninformed' people will be buying this machine at launch anyway. It'll be the hardcore. That's us. And we know.


    It'll be very telling, about a week after launch, how Sony describe the sales. Like Microsoft at the original Xbox launch I'm genuinely expecting them to say that 'Sales are in line with our expectations' - which in reality means 'they suck! =('

    Expect prices to come down drastically a few weeks after that.

    I've decided against getting a PS3 right now, even though I'm tempted EVERY DAY by the pre-order stuff in every shop I walk past/into.

    I'm thinking of saving up to go to Japan on holiday this summer instead (something I've always wanted to do!), and as a plus point buy a dirt cheap PS3 from there =)

  • SBfistfun #216 5 years ago

    hahah I cant stop laughing.

    Sony gives it to Europe Rocco style.

    /runs off to buy an Atari 2600

  • JediMasterMalik #217 5 years ago

    Oh, I'm not protecting Sony, and if major titles like FF12 and GoW 2 are not compatible I will be very pissed off. I'm just trying to be reasonable.

  • Darkuss #218 5 years ago

    Euro PS3 to include limited support for PS3 titles.

    "Nobody plays ALL the releases anyway" says Phil Harrison.


    @jiroczech

    Dude, that made me laugh out loud! Seriously... :D

  • drumbaby #219 5 years ago

    Is this why the ex Euro head of Sony sales buggered off recently, I wonder?

  • quantumsheep #220 5 years ago

    "Is this why the ex Euro head of Sony sales buggered off recently, I wonder?"

    It's a strange one isn't it?

    I'd love to know what went on behind the scenes at Sony what with Mr. Jowett leaving and the PR blunders.

    I'm fully expecting many people to make a fortune writing books on how Sony had it all and then pissed it all away with the PS3.

    I look forward to reading those in about 5 years time though ;)
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 15:06

  • spongebob #221 5 years ago

    Sounds bad. Hopefully the limitations don't extend to any of the good games. What if Ico, Rez, Shadow Of The Colossus, Final Fantasies, Okami, Yakuza, RE4 etc wouldn't work? Who cares for ALL the titles, but if they blow the backward compatibility for even one of the essential PS2 titles and don't fix it in a firmware update, Sony is stupid.

    I guess everyone should just get their PS3 from USA. It's cheaper and the PS2 compatitibility is supposedly great.

  • Eighthours #222 5 years ago

    Ok, so Vertical Marketing Technologies aren't on the Companies House website. Now, they could be registered as one name and trading under another, of course. However, they don't appear to have a website either!

    So, the question is: Did Reuters actually interview somebody to get their quote or was it "attributed" to this person by Sony themselves?

    Not that Sony would ever do such a thing... David Manning would, I'm sure, agree.

  • AcidSnake #223 5 years ago

    and if major titles like FF12 and GoW 2 are not compatible I will be very pissed off

    @JMM:
    I've always seen you protect Sony through their hardest times and dumbest mistakes, and I respect your opinion...
    But just a quick question, I'm assuming you'll get the PS3 at launch, but what if FF12 and GoW2 are not compatible?
    Will you just be pissed off or will you cancel your preorder?

    Would you still get one if it had no BC at all?

    Just curious...

  • SwedBear #224 5 years ago

    @Jamaicangmr and JMM

    The thing is that Sony themselves have made it sound like they are not really expecting much o the bc:

    "It also embodies a new combination of hardware and software emulation which will enable PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation® (PS) titles and a limited range of PlayStation®2 (PS2) titles. "

    Read that again. A "limited" range. And this is in a PR-piece where you usually expect hype from any company (not only Sony).

    And then:

    "Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology.”

    I mean, the whole paragraph (I havent quoted it all) is just there to say that playing PS2 games on the PS3 is a waste of power and therefore they won't put any effort in getting it to work better.

    And lastly: "Some additional PS2 titles will become compatible on the PS3 system through regular downloadable firmware updates,"

    I'm sorry but does any of these quotes make it sound like they are really planning on working on bc? If it was "just" 80% of the games that would work instead of >98%, as it has been stated it is on the US/Jpn machines, do you seriously think they would say that a "limited" range would work?

    Fine, maybe they got a brain-hemmorrage and decided to leave all the PR-hype from the piece and be honest and not overstate the number of games to make us pleasantly surprised when it is released but how likely is that?

    Instead of saying a limited number of games will not work, as they said for the US/Jpn, they now are reversing it. And that's bad news for anyone who wants to play PS2 games on the PS3 since you no longer by default can be sure it will work but isntead have to, just as on the 360, hope that Sony works on fixing "your" game if it doesn't work.

    I don't think bc makes or break a console but with the stunning amount of good games still coming out for the PS2 I would be very dissapointed if I planned on playing them on the PS3 and it wouldn't work.

  • quantumsheep #225 5 years ago

    "I guess everyone should just get their PS3 from USA. It's cheaper and the PS2 compatitibility is supposedly great."

    Surely then you'd only have US PS2 BC?

    For Ł200 in Japan I don't mind that it won't be BC - it will technically offer less to me in the UK, but it'll also cost less.

    I just resent the fact the Euro version will cost more and offer less ;)

  • neil_likes_bums #226 5 years ago

    The point is not that the "big" games will work though.. for me at least. My only justification for buying a PS3 on launch, was that I will be able to play *all* my old games again (as I'm assuming the PS3 will make them look bearable on a big lcd screen (?)).

    The actual launch line up does not appeal to me. I would've bought a few games anyhow, of course, because it would be dumb not to :-)

    I've no doubt I'll buy one as soon as something /interesting/ turns up on the platform, however 30% of my reason for purchase has fallen out of the floor, so if I do buy one for launch now it'll be for ebay alone. I'm not even tempted now :( I was enjoying being tempted!!!

  • trevd72 #227 5 years ago

    there are defo plenty to be had in the US. It keeps you money out of SCEE grubby hands. I know that it all goes in the same pot but if you did that and got everything secondhand then you could get the fun without buying into thier abuse. If plenty of us did that then they would think twice about taking the piss next time around and treat us fair. Thats all I am asking for, fairness.

  • kangarootoo #228 5 years ago

    My thoughts at this stage of the thread.

    1. Please can those harping on about the title of the article please put a sock in it. Its far and away the least important issue here by miles. Anyone getting stroppy about that particular aspect of proceedings needs to drink some milk and go for a walk in the park to calm down.

    2. Let me wheel into centre stage my old trusty companion. A round of applause please for Mr. "You don't have to f*cking buy it if you don't like the deal so, whilst its great that you have an opinion, could you try not to express it in that bloody whiny voice".

    That is all.

  • Martin_feltches_men #229 5 years ago

    "Is this why the ex Euro head of Sony sales buggered off recently, I wonder?"

    Yes becuase he has a bag full of PS2 emulation chips heading for ebay

  • JediMasterMalik #230 5 years ago

    I've always seen you protect Sony through their hardest times and dumbest mistakes, and I respect your opinion...
    But just a quick question, I'm assuming you'll get the PS3 at launch, but what if FF12 and GoW2 are not compatible?
    Will you just be pissed off or will you cancel your preorder?

    Would you still get one if it had no BC at all?

    Just curious...

    Yes I would. I'm not buying a PS3 for PS2 games if that's your question. I'm buying it for PS3 games, mainly Motorstorm, and Resistance. Though, if those games are compatible, it'll save me room, and it should be upscaled with FSAA (I hope). :)

  • Eighthours #231 5 years ago

    There is a "vertical marketing technologies" - in Oregon :p

    Vertical Marketing Technologies 127 Oak Street Rogue River, OR (Oregon) 97537-9563 Phone: (541) 582-4544 Business Types: Computer Software

    They're not UK-based, though.

  • neil_likes_bums #232 5 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    I think it's wonderful that you're happy to pay more, for less content. But please understand that some of us actually expect to get what we're paying for. No, nobody has to buy one, but people will and people will get ****ed in the **** by a company who seem to spend 90% of their time devising new schemes to do so. It's just /wrong/, and if you'd rather just sit about throwing your money away then please post and I'll give you my bank details so you can randomly throw money at me for nothing.

  • AcidSnake #233 5 years ago

    @JMM:

    Fair enough... :)

    And I was right wasn't I? Since when have you pre-ordered?
    And have you never had any doubts about keeping your pre-order?

    I think this thread would have been waaaaaay longer if the 360 did have 100% BC by the way...

  • Martin_feltches_men #234 5 years ago

    if the emotion engine could actually show emotion i fear it would be shedding a small tear right now

  • Martin_feltches_men #235 5 years ago

    maybe thats it!

    maybe sony are removing the emotion engine to match their own heartless appearance

  • Martin_feltches_men #236 5 years ago

    wow i agreed with myself! cool...

    ah friday afternoon randomness i love you so!

  • Martin_feltches_men #237 5 years ago

    i would like to disagree with the point you just made...sony are great and tight up my bum
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 15:28

  • kangarootoo #238 5 years ago

    @dobbie

    Yep, but more importantly to make you a better person. Whining like a child is not something to be proud of you know.

    Ooooh, everyone is so angry on here. Its kind of funny.

  • kangarootoo #239 5 years ago

    @neil_likes_bums

    Dude, I'm not happy to pay more for less. You didn't read my post properly. My entire point is that BECAUSE I'm not happy to pay more for less, I simply won't!

    No one has to buy a PS3 if they don't like the deal. And if they do buy one, they can hardly blame anyone else for their decision can they? That is the thing that makes me deliberately wind some people up with my comments (and its true, sometimes I am just baiting people).

    One thing I just can't stand is people not accepting responsibility for their own choices. Either the PS3 is too expensive (feature limited, whatever) so you don't buy it (I don't literally mean you btw), or its a deal you can live with so you do buy it. Sony don't make the decision for us, we the customer make it for ourselves. So we have TOTAL control here, which makes all this bitching kind of pathetic.

    The PS3 is not (should not be?) the only thing in our lives. If the deal is so bad we decide not to buy one, surely something can fill the void and we can still sleep at night, surely?
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 15:38

  • Darren #240 5 years ago

    Rizo - "Just cancelled my pre-order the guy at game thought I was mad."

    That's weird 'cos the guy at my local GAME thought I was mad to actually pre-order one.

    Seriously! LOL

  • thedaveeyres #241 5 years ago

    kangarootoo

    ...but the consumer wants a certain product and in some cases has already put down a deposit on that product. Then the manufacturer has moved the goalposts. This is what people are upset about.

    EDITED TWICE FOR APPALLING SPELLING :)
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 15:41

  • Martin_feltches_men #242 5 years ago

    i can only fill the void with emotion

  • neil_likes_bums #243 5 years ago

    I hear you man (and indeed I've chosen to not buy), but I see no harm in discussing the matter. It's true that nothing here will change the situation, but if nobody kicks up a fuss then the assumption is just that it's all OK, as with anything in this world. I don't feel it's acceptable to expect us to pay more, for less - hence my own decision not to buy. I'm not even that bothered about the PS3 right now, but I'm disappointed by the endless punches in the face we get over here, it's like deja vu, only this time I won't be sucked into it :D

  • Martin_feltches_men #244 5 years ago

    im upset because ill be paying more for less! Well at least until Sony remove my emotion chip then ill just be

  • trevd72 #245 5 years ago

    @thedaveeyres you have condensed 200+ posts into one. well done. especially when i hear its Ł50 - Ł100 for a deposit.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 15:43

  • neil_likes_bums #246 5 years ago

    Argos were actually taking * the full amount * when you preordered (they did this to me, much MUCH to my annoyance), so yes, that made it more annoying still :)

  • Martin_feltches_men #247 5 years ago

    neil_likes_bums

    "I hear you man (and indeed I've chosen to not buy)"

    pants on fire...i sit next to you and you have preordered 3!!

  • Gnort #248 5 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Naturally, the PS3 is not the only thing in our lives, but you have entered a PS3 related thread on a gaming site's forum, so you should probably have expected the discussion to be about it.

    It's a bit of a one-sided discussion, admittedly, but that's because nobody can think up anything good to say about the situation.

    As for the "just don't buy it" argument, that's fine, but by the same logic you shouldn't post anything on these forums, you should rather go and do stuff and shut up about it. Also, one of us not buying something is only one sale lost - by discussing it here, we hope to spread our point of view and get other people to do the same, thereby increasing the chances of our non-buying decision sending the message we want to be sent.

  • JediMasterMalik #249 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake - Preordered 2 days after the confirmation. Why would I have any doubts about it? My reasons for buying one (PS3 games, BD etc.) have not changed, the icing on the cake has simply been reduced so to speak. ;)

  • muftak #250 5 years ago

    go read the whole press release

    PS3 is first and foremost a system that excels in playing games specifically designed to exploit the power and potential of the PS3 system,” said David Reeves, President of SCEE. “Games designed for PS3 offer incredible graphics quality, stunning gameplay and massively improved audio and video fidelity that is simply not achievable with PS and PS2 games. Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology.”

    Some additional PS2 titles will become compatible on the PS3 system through regular downloadable firmware updates, which will be made available through the PLAYSTATION®Network, from http://www.playstation.co m or via PS3 game discs, with the first update planned for the launch date of the 23rd March 2007.


    eurogamer again only picking out a qoute that brings reactions to ps3 haters

    the BC is going to be software related and gets updated all the time

  • Garulon #251 5 years ago

    "the BC is going to be software related and gets updated all the time "

    Oh? You mean like the 360?

    /points at his huge pile of not-compatible games

    \o/

  • Tominator6six6 #252 5 years ago

    F.U. SONY

    I was saving both Okami and FFXII to play on my PS3 when i get it on launch because i was afraid that i would not finish them in time on my PS2. Because then i would have to buy an adapter to transfer my saves to the PS3 when it comes out. Now it is not even sure that these games will work on the PS3 at all.
    I was planning to use the s-vhs connection on my tv that i now use with my PS2 to connect the PS3 and put away my PS2 in my "console graveyard" but now i`ll have to switch between the PS2 and PS3 to play all the games i want.

    If i had not paid over 600 euro in advance on the PS3 i would have canceled my pre-order. I have bought all consoles on launchday since 29 September 1995 when the original PlayStation first came out. But this is the first console that i would not have been sad not to get at launch.

    Sony rules.
    NOT.

  • thedaveeyres #253 5 years ago

    muftak - "eurogamer again only picking out a qoute that brings reactions to ps3 haters

    the BC is going to be software related and gets updated all the time"

    The system has been sold (so far) as one with hardware BC - the system spec has changed. THIS IS THE POINT.

  • neil_likes_bums #254 5 years ago

    @muftak

    Indeed, but we still lose what other regions have (ie PROPER emulation). So there is always a chance some stuff won't work. Look at the fuss that was made about the Xbox BC - yes it's very limited but we knew about that long before launch (and other regions didn't get the proper thing!!)

  • muftak #255 5 years ago

    "Oh? You mean like the 360?

    /points at his huge pile of not-compatible games

    \o/ "

    hope not lets wait and see what happens before jumping the gun shall we i reakon they mean older titles like 1st year or so

    "I was saving both Okami and FFXII to play on my PS3 when i get it on launch because i was afraid that i would not finish them in time on my PS2"

    those will proberly be playable at launch so dont fret
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 15:54

  • ronuds #256 5 years ago

    Even though many of you hate MS, you have to admit that they're a much better company to do business with than Sony.

    It's hard not to hate Sony and they just continue making it harder each day.

  • Garulon #257 5 years ago

    "hope not lets wait and see what happens before jumping the gun shall we"

    No what's already happened is Sony established a perfectly functional hardware backwards compatiblity in the US and JP markets that played 98% of the PS2/PS1 titles out there, and they're ripping it out and replacing it with a worse solution, purely to save a bit of money in a market they think they can get away with reaming out. How bad is it? I dunno. I know it's WORSE than US and JP, but I don't know how much worse it is. What I _do_ know is that Microsoft have about 1000 titles and are having real trouble getting the majority of those working, and Sony have 8,100 plus plus titles with more coming out this year, they have a far wackier system to support than the XBox.

    "those will proberly be playable at launch so dont fret"

    Are you writing the emulation software and know this? These games are exploiting every known wrinkle in the PS2 - the chances of modern games working is LOWER not higher over software as software has to emulate the wrinkles.

    Oh those pesky wrinkles!

  • Martin_feltches_men #258 5 years ago

    i actually feel sick

  • Canadian_Mike #259 5 years ago

    here's the back compat list for you guys.....

    http://faq.eu.playst ation.com/bc

    ...shit! sorry guys, sites not ready untill the 23rd of March.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 16:08

  • Martin_feltches_men #260 5 years ago

    So it wont be backwards compatible with Sony promises then?

  • trevd72 #261 5 years ago

    going off that bc list pre-ordering is blind faith if you are selling your PS2 kit to off set the cost......ps3 is a religious experience now.

  • kangarootoo #262 5 years ago

    @thedaveeyres

    Oh I know, maybe I'm being a bit hard on people. Not everyone has a wooden heart like me :)

    @Gnort

    "It's a bit of a one-sided discussion, admittedly, but that's because nobody can think up anything good to say about the situation."

    Maybe that is part of what riles me. I think though perhaps it is futility of it all. People spount bile but nothing results from that. I have a sort of rule for life when it comes to things that bug me. You either change the thing, or you move away from it. It is almost always possible (if not necessarily easy) to apply that rule.

    In this case, the PS3 bc apparently sucks. If that is a deal breaker for you then thats kind of it right? No PS3 for me anymore you say, and you go out into the park to watch the birds and drink a latte. "Ah, well" you say "at least I still have my health" and other such cliches.

    Threads like this always seem to garner the most posts, which is kind of a sad thing (I mean sad in the traditional sense, rather than as an insult). The highest thread counts always result from a huge bunch of people feeding into each other's misery. I just find it all kind of a bit disappointing really, so I attack it (also probably in part because I can sometimes frankly be a bit of an arse).

    I could of course just stop reading this thread, applying my own rule to myself this time... but hey, if I had as many answers as I have sarcastic comments I'd be Budhha.

  • RexRunti #263 5 years ago

    Just a quick comment on all those people who have paid a deposit with there pre-order and are now regretting it - you can get it back as the company you ordered from has breached the contract (they are no longer provding you with what you pre-ordered). So if you feel cheated by Sony cancel your order, and if they give you any grief bring up trading standards.

  • JediMasterMalik #264 5 years ago

    Not quite, I doubt anywhere when people preordered said anything about full backwards compatability.

  • kangarootoo #265 5 years ago

    Slightly on a tanagent, I just learned something this very second about the PS3 and this seemed like as relevant a thread as I could find right now. In previous threads I had said that the PS3 was not hw region locked, but a publisher could region lock their software (as with the 360).

    This is in fact not the case. All PS3 games will be region free (bluray films are something else), unless my source is wrong, but I very much doubt that.

  • enzima #266 5 years ago

    Yeah sure, why not? Lets all be happy and not complain about it, afterall for some people it is disturbing to hear how hard Sony f***** them, isn'it?

  • Keso #267 5 years ago

    Pay more for a shitter system eh? Figures...

  • kangarootoo #268 5 years ago

    @JediMasterMalik

    I think a store would be hard pushed to enforce the agreement as the technical specs as published publicly have changed. Its not cut and dry, but with a technical computer product I think it would be regarded as crucial information, moreso than simply the name on the box.

    Anyone getting crap from their store should talk about calling the citizens advice bureau (and then actually do so if they still can't get their refund).

  • Garulon #269 5 years ago

    "Not quite, I doubt anywhere when people preordered said anything about full backwards compatability."

    [link url=http://www.us .playstation.com/PS3/About
    ]http://www.us .playstation.com/PS3/About
    [/link]

    Backwards Compatibility
    Play thousands of PS one® and PlayStation®2 games as well as your CDs and DVDs on the PLAYSTATION®3.

    Let's hope the list is >2000 then!

  • Garulon #270 5 years ago

    A thought - if the Sony Global Launch had actually included Europe, would we have got hardware back-compat? And would we have it yanked out of PS3s in March 2007?

  • SBfistfun #271 5 years ago

    Shitting in their soup when they ain't looking helps as well

  • trevd72 #272 5 years ago

    work has been dull today so i wish to thank sony for releasing this news today so that I could kill the day by ranting link a mad man about a console I will not be getting for a good while. I am in there with you guys who want one first day though. Kick off, don't let them grind you down.

  • Les #273 5 years ago

    "No, nobody has to buy one, but people will and people will get ****ed in the **** by a company who seem to spend 90% of their time devising new schemes to do so. It's just /wrong/, and if you'd rather just sit about throwing your money away then please post and I'll give you my bank details so you can randomly throw money at me for nothing."

    I think you kind of completely missed his point...

  • Garulon #274 5 years ago

    " I could kill the day by ranting link a mad man about a console I will not be getting for a good while"

    I prolly won't be buying one EVAH (I already own a 360, what's the point?) but I'll be happy to snap up a cheap pre-owned PS2 March 24th as people trade them in for the shiney new PLAYSTATION 3 that won't play most of their games! Imagine the looks on their little faces!

    God, I'm heartless.

  • DeveloperPump #275 5 years ago

    trevd72 says

    "ranting link a mad man"

    Aha, your Fruedian slip gives you away as a Nintendo fanboy!

    8}

  • Les #276 5 years ago

    "God, I'm heartless."

    And not that funny...

    But anyway, just as you'd think Sony couldn't do things more wrong, they make the same mistake MS made a couple of months ago. Hopefully the strong reactions from gamers will adjust their stupid plans, but I’m not counting on it.

  • JediMasterMalik #277 5 years ago

    I doubt they could suddenly start inluding the chip, after all production has been going for a while.

  • Garulon #278 5 years ago

    "they make the same mistake MS made a couple of months ago."

    MS bragged about how amazing their BC was, shipped the 360 with full BC in NA and JP, and then switcherooed BC to shitty software-based emulation when launching in Europe? Erm, are you from a parallel universe or something? Because in my universe, the stated when launching the 360 at E3 that it'd have "support for the top-selling XBox titles" - they've never promised full BC, which is lucky because their BC coverage has been absolutely dreadful.

    "Hopefully the strong reactions from gamers will adjust their stupid plans, but I’m not counting on it."

    If the chipless PS3s aren't already on the boat, erm, how are they going to adjust them? Teach GAME employees how to surface mount an 90nm EE/GS combo just before they run your credit card?

  • DeveloperPump #279 5 years ago

    XBox 360 has software emulation.
    PS3 has software emulation.

    Who do you trust to make your games run without issue?

    I never thought I'd be in the MS corner...

  • SeesThroughAll #280 5 years ago

    FUCKING ASSHOLES!

    COPYING EXACTLY WHAT THEY SHOULDN'T FROM MICROSOFT!

    On launch day, I will check the BC list... If so much as 1 of the PS2 games I intend to play on the PS3 does not work... Congratulations, Sony, you just lost a client!

    FUCK YOU SONY

  • Machetazo #281 5 years ago

    I can't believe this!?! :(
    I owned a first version of PS2 (non-slimline) then, the slimline came out, and I stayed with my lovely silver box of variety/pick 'n' mix...Cut to today, I'm PS2-less, and thinking the Playstation 3 may just be a good way to get a future-proofed complete PS gaming system (the PS2 I now want, plus the opportunity to play any interesting games the PS3 might gather to its lineup, and that funny media format it supports that you can't find discs of easily enough) - Bottom line though: It just isn't worth it alone (the software lineup's largely meh-ly), but the included PS2 to handle my NON-FF RPG needs had just tipped the bloody scale.

    Oh well, Sony, you really dropped the ball this time; looks like I'll have to keep my money, you *words just fail me*.

  • trevd72 #282 5 years ago

    @DeveloperPump close, M$ fanboy at the moment but i love the snes and DS so we will see how the wii develops in the coming months - I could be wii60 fanboy.

  • trevd72 #283 5 years ago

    @Kato - Amen

  • AcidSnake #284 5 years ago

    Amen? I do hope you're saying this to Our Lord He-Man?

  • spongebob #285 5 years ago

    Hmm. Should we wait until we see the backwards compatibility list before totally losing it? I mean, are you really going to play 1000 PS2 on PS3? If the list covers all the great games and then some, I am pretty sure most of us we'll be pleased. Sure, theoretically it's crap that it's not full 100% compatibility but who the heck has time to play all these games anyway? I am having trouble playing like 3 games at the same time and I am supposed to care about the entire PS2 back catalogue?

  • elliotreed #286 5 years ago

    So what's the real reason behind this decision?

    Go, game journalists, go!

    Oh.

  • SeesThroughAll #287 5 years ago

    I am supposed to care about the entire PS2 back catalogue?

    The PS2 got a very, very good game library. The bonus of BC is that you can always consider cheap nice games, later on. Now, not only did Sony just REDUCE the value for their console, they even lost product differentiation.

    Now people are going to think: "Oh, it's just like a 360, then. Why does it cost so much more?"

    Heck, I really thought BC was a fundamental feature... Now, they can't even guarantee it anymore.

  • mattigan #288 5 years ago

    What REALLY winds me up about this whole thread is how all the Sony backers saying "Wait and see" and "maybe it won't be such a bad thing" are the exact same people who sat back and gleefully took the fucking piss for whole year about the 360 BC situation.

    You're fucking hypocrites, the lot of you.

  • enzima #289 5 years ago

    Oh, i see. Now sony fanboys, after screaming for months at the list of games BC on 360, changing rapidly their point of view to "no biggies, we dont have time to play all those games anyway.". To me that is completely unacceptable. After Phil himself saying BC is a very important aspect of ps3, and after ps3 was sold in USA and JP with a ps2 chip inside, they will sell it in Europe at a higher price, with less things inside, without options on which bundle and 5/6 months later. As i said before:
    Yeah sure, why not? Lets all be happy and not complain about it, afterall for some people it is disturbing to hear how hard Sony f***** them, isn'it?

  • SeesThroughAll #290 5 years ago

    What REALLY winds me up about this whole thread is how all the Sony backers saying "Wait and see" and "maybe it won't be such a bad thing" are the exact same people who sat back and gleefully took the fucking piss for whole year about the 360 BC situation.

    You're fucking hypocrites, the lot of you.

    It goes both ways, you know. Because XBox fans used to claim that, although restricted to a few titles, software BC on the 360 allowed to upgrade the graphics. Always adding the point that "it doesn't really matter, anyway". Now that it's to be done the same way on the PS3, it suddenly matters and became a bad thing?

    I do remember Sony making the announcement that later on, BC would be done through emulation, but never, ever thought it would be done this early. I always thought they'd optimize this as much as possible for a "slimline PS3" in the future, with a then dying PS2, but not at a point that PS3 buyers are expecting to make full use of both PS3 and PS2 games.

    ASSHOLES.

  • spongebob #291 5 years ago

    Hah. Well, yeah, it was sort of funny to see that X360 didn't have a decent backward compatibility at first. But if I were to buy the console now (I am not, I am waiting until the end of the year or so when X360 is cheaper), I wouldn't care one bit. Most of the good Xbox games work on X360 already. Same will happen with PS3, you'll see. But if it doesn't, then it's ok to be pissed off. Let's say that Okami doesn't work and they don't fix it, or Rez doesn't work and they don't fix it. That would be piss me off. The situation right now, when we don't know what games work straight out of the box and what will follow later on, is nothing to get mad about. That is, if you are really interested in buying the console and not just taking everything you can to call it names.

  • kangarootoo #292 5 years ago

    @Kato

    I know, pre-order deposits are different. And actually, as I've roughly admitted earlier, I think I am being a little over harsh with people. I have no plans to buy a PS3, but neither have I ever pre-ordered a console in my life.

    I don't think I have ever felt a particularly strong emotive connection with any given platform (even back in the Amiga vs Atari ST days, when I was about the best age to get stroppy about that sort of thing), so maybe thats why i can't identify with some of the posters.

    Sorry everyone,

    Kangarootoo being grumpy with people for being grumpy != common sense.

    :)

  • mattigan #293 5 years ago

    Well not really, the 360's cards were always on the table "we are going to do it this way" while the PS crowd laughed their asses off at such a limited BC solution.

    Now Sony have changed their tune however, they are all "Wait and see" and "we will only want BC on the best games anyway"

    I know I'm basically saying the same thing, but my original point still stands, you should have the courage of your convictions and recognise that you just got the shaft. Rather than posting the same shit comments that you yourself were criticising 6 months ago.

  • playgen #294 5 years ago

    Its well known the PS2 is a very complicated hardware design - so I wonder how well it can be emulated in software. Is a PS3 even powerful enough to emulate games that pushed PS2 to its limits?

    Regardless of wether backwards compatability is important to you or not, this is obviously another poor decision by Sony when they should be trying their hardest to overcome all the negativity from informed gamers, and apathy from the general public. I wonder if they fired all the people who made the PS1 and PS2 so succesful, and got the masterminds behind the Atari Jaguar, Tiger Game.com and Virtual Boy to run their PS3 operation.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 17:41

  • SeesThroughAll #295 5 years ago

    I know I'm basically saying the same thing, but my original point still stands, you should have the courage of your convictions and recognise that you just got the shaft. Rather than posting the same shit comments that you yourself were criticising 6 months ago

    Listen, I did not change my convictions, I WANTED hardware BC. I did acknowledge the pros and cons of both approaches and always said I prefer hardware BC. I'm pissed with this outcome as a result, don't try to call me a hypocrite.

    Hypocrisy would have been to originally say tha BC doesn't matter and then criticise Sony for this, or the other way around.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 17:43

  • JediMasterMalik #296 5 years ago

    Personally, they should keep the chip in, aswell as use the software emulation. Would be more logical for consumers, but still expensive for them.

  • SeesThroughAll #297 5 years ago

    Would be more logical for consumers, but still expensive for them.

    Profits first, consumers later.

  • All_the_girly_men #298 5 years ago

    Problem is that MS have got Sony over a barrel. I think Sony are anticipating a price cut for the 360 pretty soon, probably around the time the ps3 launches in Europe, so they're trying to agressively cut costs to give them some more legroom to react when the inevitable price cut comes.

  • lefizz #299 5 years ago

    the only issue being the fact that the internal bandwidth of the emotion engine is so great that they have very little chance to emulating it. None of the external buses on the ps3 can carry the 48 gigbits per sec ,I have read this several time from knowledgeable people on the subject. Its is far harder to emulate than say a Intel cpu and a dx 8.1 gfx card using a shared memory architecture.

    The results fromt eh PS2 might look very similar to xbox 1 games but the way the machinery makes them makes it far harder to do in software.

    Get ready for a VERY VERY limited range of PS2 backward compatibility. People who think God of War will run at 1080p are in for a shock. I would very very surprised if those later games ever work

  • Penguinzoot #300 5 years ago

    @All_the_girly_men

    The official noises from MS recently seemed intended to dampen speculation of a formal price cut for the 360. There was a lot of talk of "profitability" before "market share" at least until next year.

    However, that is not to say that MS do not have the "legroom" for a price cut now, or in the near future. The speculation is that MS are now making money on every 360 sold.

    Knowing that their main competitor worldwide (arguably) could force their hand with a pre-emptive price cut, may well have influenced Sonys decision to try and reduce costs to give themselves some room to respond, should it be necessary.

  • X #301 5 years ago

    That has actually pissed me off and is tempting me to cancel a pre-order that I was looking forward to just days previous. I just accepted most of the other issues with the PS3 and how Sony are handling it but this is just a real sickening blow to the europeans.

  • spongebob #302 5 years ago

    Sounds like all of you "buyers" wanted PS3 just to play PS2 games. I dunno, I'd buy a PS2 for that if that was the thing you looked most forward to with the new console.

  • spongebob #303 5 years ago

    Just buy a goddamn Wii if you want to play old games :)

  • mattigan #304 5 years ago

    Not you personally, just the general PS crowd.

    Obviously there will be differences of opinion withing the crowd but I'm talking about the general feeling amongst Sony followers started as derision at the opposition, and now they're backpeddling furiously.

  • JediMasterMalik #305 5 years ago

    Who are you talking about specifically? You must know someone who's doing this to be making generalisations?

  • Basselito #306 5 years ago

    One thing that I'm curious about is if the next batch of PS3's for Japan and the US is going to have these "new" machines? And if they cut the price here. Will they do that in Japan and the US too?

  • Your_Dumb_Child #307 5 years ago

    Nobody buys new hardware to play last generation games (that feature is simply an added bonus). I mean, did you buy a Wii to play GC games or a 360 to play xbox titles, of course you didn't...so what's with all the fuss.

    This is just a case of people/gamers blowing things out of proportion! Anyway, when games like MGS 4, FF XIII, etc come out, nobody will give a rats ass about backwards compatibility.

  • manic_mouse #308 5 years ago

    I honestly don't know how anyone can EVER believe a word Sony ever say again. Their conduct regarding the PS3 has been an utter, and I mean UTTER, disgrace. How many lies have they told about the PS3 at this point? I've actually lost count it's that many. Killzone, dual HDMI, hardware backwards compatability, worldwide launch, twice as powerfull as a 360, dual SKU's are bad, out in spring 2006... The list goes on and on.

    How can a company get away with so much deception and underhandedness. Get an ounce of integrity Sony.

    And why do EG never ask Phil Harrison any hard questions about this crap when they interview him instead of licking his arse? How about asking him about all the quotes he's made that have been utter LIES? About all the trash-talk he does about the 360 and then Sony turn around and do the same thing?

    Backwards compatability certainly isn't "make or break", but after all the other crap Sony have done it may well be the last straw in many peoples eyes. To me the issue here isn't simply the PS3 but how Sony have been acting as a company. It really is a disgrace. EG, I expect you to give Phil a grilling in your next interview or I will have lost all respect for you. You are EUROgamer, stand up for your readership.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 19:00

  • enzima #309 5 years ago

    @ Your_Dumb_Child
    Sure, nobody likes old games, that is why VC on WII is doing so good. Have you ever heard of live arcade? Plus the games that probably will not work on ps3 are the most recent.
    And at this point, i dont know when and if we are ever gonna see MGS as an exclusive for ps3. GT for PSP is also another great example of how much trust you should put in Sony´s words......

  • rommy667 #310 5 years ago

    Man im really enjoying this :) ppl are dead right to react this way sony are stupid for doing this its just unreal

  • chupachups #311 5 years ago

    "Nobody buys new hardware to play last generation games "

    ...so why did Sony keep going on about the PS3 being backwards compatible?

    That's what annoys people about Sony, not that they do something but that they say one thing and then do something completely different.

    Sony SAID that backwards compatibility was core to the PlayStation brand, that people could upgrade without losing their old games library. That's what Sony said themselves.

    Now they suddenly remove that option on the European PS3 while at the same time allowing American and Japanese PS3 customers to keep it. Not just that, but the Europeans are being forced by Sony to pay significantly more for their inferior PS3s.

    And whenever someone has the arrogance to try and sell imported PS3s in Europe, Sony's legal department closes them down.

    It's like Sony wants their European customers to suffer.
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 19:20

  • blueseagull #312 5 years ago

    336 messages and it's not lead story on EG?! Bizzare!

  • Your_Dumb_Child #313 5 years ago

    {
    enzima
    23-Feb-07 19:01:01

    Sure, nobody likes old games, that is why VC on WII is doing so good. Have you ever heard of live arcade? Plus the games that probably will not work on ps3 are the most recent.
    And at this point, i dont know when and if we are ever gonna see MGS as an exclusive for ps3. GT for PSP is also another great example of how much trust you should put in Sony´s words......
    )

    The reason VC and Xbox Live is doing OK is because it plays host to games that to get these days would be impossible, very hard or expensive because the hardware that originally hosted such games isn't manufactured anymore i.e. NES, Snes, N64, Atri 2600, PC Engine, etc.

    PS3 backwards compatibility is a different story, PS1 hardware is still very easy to get/buy, as for the PS2, well that hardware still gets manufactured (it outsold the PS3 over the festive season in the US/JPN as January hardware sales show) and the games are easily maintainable.

    Also, it costs more to manufacture the chips that allowed backward compatibility on the PS3, than to manufacture a slimline PS2 console. Hence why there getting removed to cut down the cost of the PS3.

    As i've said before this is just a case of gamers blowing things out of proportion, as usual!
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 19:23

  • manic_mouse #314 5 years ago

    Dumb Child you are completely missing the point here, and why many of us are angry:

    We get the PS3 later than everywhere else.
    We pay more than everywhere else.
    And now we have hardware features stripped out of our PS3s.

    Couple that with all the lies Sony have told about the PS3 and you can understand why many consumers aren't exactly in love with Sony at the moment.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 19:30

  • enzima #315 5 years ago

    "The reason VC and Xbox Live is doing OK is because it plays host to games that to get these days would be impossible, very hard or expensive because the hardware that originally hosted such games isn't manufactured anymore i.e. NES, Snes, N64, Atri 2600, PC Engine, etc. "

    Man, are you serious? ever heard of MAME? do you know lots of people even use emulators on the psp?
    Are you gonna be happy if you wouldnt be able to play GoW 2 on your brand new ps3?
    Are you ok to know only at the last moment which games will be BC?
    Are you ok with the lies Sony said to you as a consumer?
    Are you ok to spend more than americans or japanese gamers, and to receive less?
    Are you ok with the delay?

    Sometimes i wonder how much shit can a sony fanboy really take, before turning. Looking at people like you, who seem not to mind at all, i would say a lot.....
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 19:34

  • smelly #316 5 years ago

    This is brilliant!!!

    Not only do the uk pay over the odds for their ps3's.. but they're also getting a shittier version!!!

    And watch it sell out (uk gamers are dumb)

  • Your_Dumb_Child #317 5 years ago

    {
    enzima
    23-Feb-07 19:31:56

    Man, are you serious? ever heard of MAME? do you know lots of people even use emulators on the psp?
    Are you gonna be happy if you wouldnt be able to play GoW 2 on your brand new ps3?
    Are you ok to know only at the last moment which games will be BC?
    Are you ok with the lies Sony said to you as a consumer?
    Are you ok to spend more than americans or japanese gamers, and to receive less?
    Are you ok with the delay?

    Sometimes i wonder how much shit can a sony fanboy can really take, before turning. Looking at people like you, who seem not to mind at all, i would say a lot.....
    }

    Eh, calm down pal, as for questions:

    1) Mame is illegal, so therefore don't have any games (or emulators).

    2) GOW 2 on my new PS3? By the time i get a PS3, i would've played that already on my chipped PS2 (which can run any imported PS1/2 game).

    3) No, i've got a chipped PS2...so backwards compatibility is totally no use to me.

    4) Lies? No, more like cutting the cost of an already expensive system.

    5) As i said in my post (page 201-250) i'll import the PS3. The world is a small place through the internet, don't you know!

    6) I import my games...so it doesn't bother me. It only bothers Eurogamers.

    As for the whole Sony fanboy rant you hit me with, i'm a gamer and have got loads of systems! I just don't go bursting blood vessels over something that doesn't really matter.

    Anyway, your the fanboy mate as this news has clearly gotten to you. Relax, chill out, the world is a beautiful place. LOL
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 19:59

  • Your_Dumb_Child #318 5 years ago

    Since Sony have moved the chip that enabled for backwards compatibility on the PS3, the PS2 will probably get an official price cut, rather than cutting the price of the PS3 console.

  • spliffhead #319 5 years ago

    FFS

  • bonker #320 5 years ago

    "Did Amazon UK always have the 20GB option online? "

    Yup.

  • enzima #321 5 years ago

    whatever makes your day, i guess.......
    At least now we know sony has at least 2 loyal customer...you and JMM....you are in good company!

  • DanMW #322 5 years ago

    The fact that Sony had to take this drastic measure in order to reduce costs is rather worrying in my opinion, they must be in serious financial trouble.

  • Your_Dumb_Child #323 5 years ago

    enzima
    23-Feb-07 20:07:49
    At least now we know sony has at least 2 loyal customer...you and JMM....you are in good company!

    ______


    Man, you talk like its a crime or something to own Sony products, get a grip you fuckin weirdo.

    Whatever, Nintendo and Microsoft also have loyal customer in me. Right i'm away to play Gears.

  • smelly #324 5 years ago

    Of course.. its nintendo who keep shafting their european customers.. sony are actually looking out for you guys :-)

  • enzima #325 5 years ago

    Your_Dumb_Child you are hopeless....well, i should have understood it by your name.....

  • mattigan #326 5 years ago

    JMM err. . . . you

  • immateriaux #327 5 years ago

    that's fairly shit news. Thought backward compatibility was a real plus for playstations. Whatever the behind the scenes reason is for doing this, it's poor news for consumers - unless, of course, you are sensible enough to not give a fuck about this next generation nonsense!

  • spongebob #328 5 years ago

    What's weird is how so many people are actually ENJOYING this all. Are you busting your nuts while writing these? It's a bit sick.

    What is there to enjoy about it all is the big question. Just goes to show how evil and twisted most people of the vocal majority are. It has not been about playing the games for most of the raving lunatics here for a long time, it's about talking shit about companies and their products. It's like this is about politics not gaming, there's the Xbox party, there's the Wii party and the PS3 party and it's a bloody war where nobody wins anyway.

    Here's a simple guideline to all of you:

    Don't like the way a company works? Don't support them, don't buy their products and shut up. Most of you NEVER EVER intended on buying PS3, because most of you NEVER EVER even bought PS2 and were part of the mob who put it down last gen. And because last time around PS2 "won" despite your bad mouthing efforts, you're having a hard-on of a good time when Sony finally seems to be failing. It's so sad, so very sad to see people act like this. Go to a plastic surgeon and buy a bigger penis, please...

  • Les #329 5 years ago

    immateriaux +1

    spongebob +1

  • monkey-ken-wizard #330 5 years ago

    Another day, another Sony blunder.
    It’s a shame, but the PS3 in its current state isn't a good purchase.
    Microsoft's financial might and Nintendo innovation have left Sony reeling.
    Enjoy the PS2 while it’s still around, Sony's dominance and best days could be over.

  • bonker #331 5 years ago

    "One thing that I'm curious about is if the next batch of PS3's for Japan and the US is going to have these "new" machines? And if they cut the price here. Will they do that in Japan and the US too? "

    I can't see it, I just can't see it - think about it, they have 98% bc (or whatever) already and then they get a machine foisted on them with a (MUCH) smaller percentage of the bc afterwards.

    Even Sony couldn't get away with that could they?

    /Boils kettle

    /Wakes up and smells the coffee
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 20:58

  • SeesThroughAll #332 5 years ago

    spongebob +10

    Well said.

  • elliotreed #333 5 years ago

    'Most of you NEVER EVER intended on buying PS3, because most of you NEVER EVER even bought PS2 and were part of the mob who put it down last gen'

    Not true.

    The PS2 has an incredible line-up of games, covering every taste from the mainstream to the very niche (of course you will need a US or modded console but that's the case with every console). Anyone who's even remotely interested in gaming has a PS2 by now.

    I actually think it's pretty encouraging that people can be objective enough to criticize Sony for their unbelievable stupidity during the launch of the PS3 even though most of those people, statistically speaking, are PS2 owners.
    Edited by 1 at 23/02/07 @ 21:40

  • rebe #334 5 years ago

    I was at a eu-game store yesterday. A guy was asking about the ps2 compability and the employee answered that it will work flawlessly, better than the 360, since the ps3 will have the ps2 chips built in. Deception for the win.

  • enzima #335 5 years ago

    I dont believe for a second that even one person writing here, does it just for the sake of complaining. You must be sick to think of something like this. I believe that a lot of people is just sooooooo pissed at sony (because, at the end, if you are a gamer, you MUST have been a sony fan , at a point or another) because they feel betrayed. I cant feel that way about nintendo. Since the times of Nes, never they've let me down. Now, sony was the best news ever for any gamers, during the times of ps 1 and ps2. What happened, then? Be honest, and tell that the once favorite company of everybody didn't let you down. Personally, i cant say that. I dont have words to describe how incredibly angry this last news makes me. Bigger price, less values and delayed. No one can say that sony was fair to Europe in this case.

  • chupachups #336 5 years ago

    "What's weird is how so many people are actually ENJOYING this all. Are you busting your nuts while writing these? It's a bit sick."

    Have you never laughed when a politician who preaches about family values is caught having an affair? It's not that you're laughing at them having an affair, it's that they preached to others about not having affairs and then go right ahead and do it themselves.

    Heck, yes I'm enjoying it. Not the bungling of the PS3, there's nothing actually wrong with the console itself and it would be a shame if it failed as it's a nice bit of kit. What I'm enjoying is the way Sony's arrogance is coming right back into its own face.

    It was Sony that extolled the virtues of backwards compatibility, it was Sony that made fun of the Xbox 360 for not having full backwards compatibility. Now it's Sony that's removing that very same backwards compatibility from their very own console.

    It's Sony that, time after time, criticises others for things that it does wrong, and I for one DO enjoy seeing them caught out, not because I want to see them fail but because I want to see arrogance punished.
    Edited by 2 at 23/02/07 @ 21:56

  • dirigiblebill #337 5 years ago

    I think we all need to sit down and have a nice cup of tea, now. 350+ posts in a single day is unhealthy.

    Let's talk about something relatively uncontroversial. Holocaust denial, for instance? Hello?

    /surveys bloody wasteland

    Hello? Is anybody still alive out there?

  • MikeJones #338 5 years ago

    Your all a bunch of whiny bitches. You don't even know what games it will and won't play. What if it goes from 98 % to 90 %? Oh no .003 percent of PS3 owners can't play the 1 game they wanted. Well over 75% of people don't care about BC or claim they do and don't use it.

  • spongebob #339 5 years ago

    Have you never laughed when a politician who preaches about family values is caught having an affair? It's not that you're laughing at them having an affair, it's that they preached to others about not having affairs and then go right ahead and do it themselves.

    I have never laughed at something like that. Scoffed, most likely, and mostly I've been appalled because politicians have so much power over our lives. But this has almost nothing to do with some silly past time console gaming and the wars we adults have about them on the internets. Get real.

    It was Sony that extolled the virtues of backwards compatibility, it was Sony that made fun of the Xbox 360 for not having full backwards compatibility. Now it's Sony that's removing that very same backwards compatibility from their very own console.

    Sony made publically fun of X360? Multiple times, you say? I don't know, I think most of the time it's the supporting groups over the 'net that do the nasty deed and make fun of the competitor's machine, be it Ninty, Sony or MS.

    But this defending is all in vain really because whatever negative news Sony publishes on PS3 or someone publishes about it, certain people will always spin it so that it sounds like it's the end of the world for Sony and PS3. Who knows, maybe it's true, but looking at the launch line-up and the console specs, I say that it's still a pretty interesting gaming machine.

    Maybe if they decided to take away the BD or HD and sell it at the same announced price I'd join the lot of you and say Sony sucks, but when the worst news is just a cutback to the backwards compatibility, it's hard to feel the same way. X360 had pretty horrible backwards compatibility initially and it still managed to become a great games console. PS3 might not sell as well as X360, but I am willing to bet that by this time next year we have as many exciting games on PS3 as we have on X360 right now. And that's good news for me, as a simple gamer who happens to like good games, regardless of platform or how it does in NPD reports.

  • dirigiblebill #340 5 years ago

    'Either way, this is a clear message NOT to buy PS3 until the down-speccing is reflected in the price-point, irregardless of whether you are European or not.'

    Why don't we all make a pledge here. One year from now, all ps3 dissenters and Sony Europe employees shall assemble in Versailles and dump simultaneously in brown paper envelopes. Dependent on the ps3's current ratio of price point to feature set/line-up, one party gets to eat the other party's shit.

    There, you see? A humane solution after all.

  • dirigiblebill #341 5 years ago

    "a simple gamer who happens to like good games"

    That's beautiful, man.

    /sob

  • DeCoR #342 5 years ago

    I just put a deposit on the other day I honestley honestly thought this was a joke .

  • Kami #343 5 years ago

    I completely understand the reaction of people. Software emulation was not promised, because as they've been pointing out, it's not as good as the real thing. America and Japan HAVE the hardware emulation. They have this feature. They will get 98% or so compatibility, and no worries about it. Europe, on the other hand, will have this option stripped without choice from their machines, replaced by what is an unreliable and unpredictable method of emulation at best.

    Software emulation can be good, but it can also be very, very bad. It depends on many things, but as people have said in this topic, just saying, "Oh, they'll do firmware updates to make more games compatible" is, to be frank, utter shite. Even hardware emulation can't get it 100% right and even now, the software on the PS2 renders some old games totally unplayable.

    Software emulation requires you to not only emulate the software available at the time, but on many other variables in the code of the emulator. Simply put, from firmware update to firmware update you could end up with games becoming non-compatible as well as compatible, and it is this lottery in getting it right that makes software emulation so goddamned unpredictable, you could have got an old copy of, say, Shadow Hearts and be playing it through, then a firmware update comes along and suddenly, it no longer seems to work.

    Though I hear people scoff, this is the reality of software emulation - throughout the years PC Emulators have suffered from this and often these people do know what they are doing and don't have the time constraints or pressures of getting a firmware update to run another ten or so games that people have been requesting by a certain time on a certain day.

    The simple truth of it is - to cut corners and save money, Sony will be giving Europe a more shoddy product, and customers have every right to be pretty pissed off over it. The PS3 is expensive, it is a luxury, those who buy it want to and should expect they are getting the best piece of kit that money can buy. Visibly cutting corners on things like this only contribute to people seeing it as overpriced, overvalued and overhyped.

  • chronom4n #344 5 years ago

    so what? a few games are not going to be backwards compatible. Do I really care or want to care. I am astonished that this has got over 369 posts. let the hardware come out and then really lay into sony for fucking us about all over the place.

  • oreillymj #345 5 years ago

    oh and another thing that chaps my ass.

    Sony haven't just lashed this board revision together in the last week. They've been planning it for some time. Therefore they also will have tested a certain % of games and know which ones will/will not work.

    But they are deliberately withholding this information prior to making a sale, thus depriving customers of making an informed choice on whether the lack of h/w bc alters their decision to buy.

    Sony should be honest and publish the list of titles that currently do/do not work with the F/W they plan to ship with this new h/w rev. and also call out which titles they actually plan to get working.

    And they should do this before taking €600 off people for for the PS3, or should it be renamed "Playstation the Turd".

  • Derblington #346 5 years ago

    Boo hoo

  • smelly #347 5 years ago

    @Spongebob : Im enjoying this about as much as i enjoyed it when nintendo learned their lesson the first time around.

    If a company gets too big for their boots and starts to treat US CONSUMERS as shit, then when they start to get their come-upance then its GOOD for US CONSUMBERS!

    Maybe then they'll learn their lessons and not treat us so badly next time around.

    See?

    I was gonna give big examples here, but it sounded like a pro nintendo anti sony rant - which isnt what i wanted to do.

  • SeesThroughAll #348 5 years ago

    But they are deliberately withholding this information prior to making a sale, thus depriving customers of making an informed choice on whether the lack of h/w bc alters their decision to buy.

    They'll release the info on launch day. Just don't rush on launch day, relax and check what works on the website before parting with your money.

    They better make it compatible with MGS3, MGS1, GoW, GoW2, Okami, FFXII, FFVII, Katamari Damacy, We Love Katamari, God Hand, and Wipeout 2097 on day one or they won't see any more of my money.

  • zoomah #349 5 years ago

    This is the first time i really got really, really MAD and cheated by Sony corp. I'm a very calm person and i've been an owner of Sony's two consoles and bought and played and enjoyed a huge ammount of games. I even bought some games consciously presuming that Sony wouldn't jeapardise my investement due to the much hyped Backward Compatibility, apparently improved on PS3. And now they drop this bomb. I know that i can always keep my PS2, but if it stops working at a time when the production of ps2 consoles is already discontinued and buying a new one becomes impossible, what will happen to some (many i assume now) games that simply will not function properly or at all on the PS3?
    Sony is showing lack of respect an ethics with all these evil schemes. The PS3 anounced 2 years ago will not be the one on the shelves in March. You mislead consumers and treated them like pawns, specially the european ones. I'mstill excited by the new games and the generation leap but BC was going to be essential to me as i enjoyed PS2 a lot and spent a huge amount of money over the years in PS2 games. Just the thought of not being able to play them maybe forever due to your irrresponsible and criminal marketing "geniuses" makes me angry to the point of simply forget about PS3. The XBOX360 consumers were neve treated this way and even the letdowns and flaws were much better justified. I never expected Sony to go this far and no, the new chassis doesn't erase from our minds the now more than evident lack of features. I'm expecting Sony to deny and apologise for this unfortunate announcement or else....Hello Microsoft?

  • BBIAJ #350 5 years ago

    "Though, if those games are compatible, it'll save me room, and it should be upscaled with FSAA (I hope). :)"

    @JMM:

    If what I read recently somewhere is true, then you'll be lucky!

    It said something about how the PS3's emulation of the PS2 was just that, and nothing more, no upscaling, no added AA, nothing.

    At least when games run BC on the 360, they look better than they did on the old X-Box!

  • lefizz #351 5 years ago



    Motion sensing is being ditched as well


    Motion sensing is being ditched as well


    Motion sensing is being ditched as well



    Is this wrong or have toms hardware found something extra that will be missing from Euro ps3's.

    they claim the motion sensing is being ditched as well

    Phil

    [link url=ht tp://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23/euro_ps3/
    ]http://ww w.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23...[/link]

  • the_sas_man #352 5 years ago

    i hear it no longer uses Blu-Ray either...

  • the_sas_man #353 5 years ago

    "XBox 360 has software emulation.
    PS3 has software emulation"

    This isn't technically true.

    The 360 runs emulation (software to make the 360 behave like an Xbox) which is why not all games are supported. The PS3 is SUPPOSED to have hardware inside that is effectively a PS2. In theory (and what Sony were touting) was that ALL PS2 games would work as all the hardware inside exists to run it. Now it sems ironically the emulation is working better than the hardware idea.

    It's baffling. And it is a big deal. There is a lot of players like me who missed out on Gods of war and Okami. Who on earth at Sony makes these decisions?

  • Machetazo #354 5 years ago

    Sony bring shame to the game.

  • numptyboymatt #355 5 years ago

    See. its all well and good saying that they will do firmware updates, but what if you dont have your console online? Then what happens?

    My brother is desperate for a PS3, not that he knows anything about it, but he wont have it online, so he is pretty much shafted.

  • LeD #356 5 years ago

    Well, this is kinda stupid.

    AFAIC it brings me back in the 'Buy a PS2 now, wait a couple of years for a PS3' camp.

  • effinwooly #357 5 years ago

    JEDIMASTER- having just read all your posts, what would Sony have to do for you not to buy a PS3 ? seriously mate, what ?

    You are a perfect Sony customer.......... and you and people like you, are the reason the PS3 will sell really well !

  • enzima #358 5 years ago

    Not that i ever really liked the tilt idea, but if what tomshardware.co.uk is saying is true, then it seems BC will not be the only thing missing in our ps3s. Which is even worst, that just modify the experience of gaming on europeans ps3. At that point, we should have the right to a different pricing. Not even sony can sell you less for more!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Derblington #359 5 years ago

    The console will be released with the SIXAXIS, tomshardware have made an error.

  • AOFanboi #360 5 years ago

    Yeah, that part of Tom's Hardware's title is not backed by anything in the article.

    As for Sony's attacks on their rivals' backward compatibility - not always connected to the reality we others live in:

    [link url=http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/11/scea_vp_on_back.html
    ]http://bl og.wired.com/games/2006/11/scea...[/link]

    <em>If you look at our competitors, one machine has zero backwards compatibility and one only has it with a third of their games.</em>

    Which of course is totally bollocks.
    Edited by 1 at 24/02/07 @ 10:43

  • spongebob #361 5 years ago

    There is a lot of players like me who missed out on Gods of war and Okami. Who on earth at Sony makes these decisions?

    I am sure these two games will work from the day one.

  • SeesThroughAll #362 5 years ago

    The console will be released with the SIXAXIS, tomshardware have made an error.

    Of course, a lot of blogs and "news" sites are also going to make this kind of "mistakes" in order to make it sound worse than it already is and to maximize consumers rage towards Sony.

  • miiiguel #363 5 years ago

    I am a 360 user, and I can tell you that I don't miss any post-gen game, not even a bit, and allthough PS3 titles don't seem to have the quality of the 360 ones I bet PS3 users wont miss their older games either.
    But, it's still funny how some people can change their position for a brand name sake. When 360 proved to be semi-backward compatible some followers of PS church yelled to the 4 winds "360 is not backwards compatible, therefor sux...", now some think differently.

    spongebob: you seem distressed, take it easy, and remember MS=Evil; Sony=Good, write on a post-it, nowdays this simple notion is getting blurier.
    Edited by 1 at 24/02/07 @ 11:26

  • InsoFox #364 5 years ago

    I think most people are missing the point.

    Myself, if and when I get a PS3 (and we're looking at least 2 major price drops into the future here) I would like the security of knowing all my PS2 games are backwards compatible. That way I could shelve the PS2 and move on. There are still PS2 games I'd go back to.

    BUT

    it's not a dealbreaker for me that the PS2 doesn't have it. I actually find the 360's solution acceptable. ANY BC is better than none.

    BUT

    what IS increasingly pushing back my desire for a PS3 until it's stupidly cheaper is the principle of the thing. Us in europe are paying a higher price for something that is not as capable as the versions in the rest of the world, in a fairly significant way, and we are asked to just say 'okay! that makes sense!'

    If you can't build a machine that is affordable and profitable in the first place, that's not our fault, that's just bad design and bad business. If this is really going to make that much difference to manufacturing cost and future price points then Sony should have realised this back in the design stages instead of promising BC to the world and then snatching it away from one region at the last moment.

    BC? Eh, nice but I'll take it or leave it. What's wearing on my patience is a

    big
    long
    string
    of
    sony
    ineptitude.

  • miiiguel #365 5 years ago

    The thing is, Sony knows that in Europe they can sell empty boxes, just by printing the spiderman logo on it, "ooooh it's a Sony!".
    Take a look at PSP, everybody buys one, not really knowing why, and many to never be used again, but they sell (the games don't though, but, and again, they could implement a rule that every game title should have Sony's font, it might work).

    I think they are testing how far can they go, so far, so good - further!
    Edited by 1 at 24/02/07 @ 11:54

  • waffle #366 5 years ago

    What's all that stuff about downmixing dolby output? How long has that been a PS3 feature?

  • floppylobster #367 5 years ago

    Sony may think that by dropping these features they'll only piss off a few hardcore gamers. What does that matter to them? The real money's in the mainstream market.

    But who do the mainstream go to when they're considering buying a new games console? They go to their hardcore friend, the one who can let them know what's best to get for their money. And what will their hardcore gamer friend say?

  • crouchy #368 5 years ago

    Overeaction as always from genuine concerned people and the numerous trolls. Switching to software emulation will be global. Surely it was common knowledge this was going to happen?.

    From the Sony website

    Some additional PS2 titles will become compatible on the PS3 system through regular downloadable firmware updates, which will be made available through the PLAYSTATION®Network, from http://www.playstation.co m or via PS3 game discs, with the first update planned for the launch date of the 23rd March 2007.



    For every feature Sony has they have to dedicate people to that said feature. By putting their primary focus on BC that would mean some focus would be inevitably taken off of other things. As much as everyone would like to believe that Sony has an unlimited supply of resources they don't and need to either balance or do what they think will benefit most customers in the long term.

  • SeesThroughAll #369 5 years ago

    No Wonga, I'm not defending Sony. Just because I don't want to take their bullshit, it doesn't mean I have to take others bullshit.

    I won't forget this BC fiasco along with other fiascos, from Sony, just like I won't forget Microsoft's Gestapo tactics of spying on people through WGA (we had already a problem at work because of this crap), and forcing them to phone them just to ask permission to use their already expensive OS. I applauded my boss for not wasting money on Vista (and for saving us from the PITA of checking if everything is compatible for no good reason).

    Just like Sony probably had something to do with that Watchdog piece - like I said in the comments, if you bother checking that- MS is sure to actively capitalize with this.

    I prefer to think for myself, thank you.

    Now go on and give Bill Gates another BJ.

  • crouchy #370 5 years ago

    If you can't build a machine that is affordable and profitable in the first place, that's not our fault, that's just bad design and bad business. If this is really going to make that much difference to manufacturing cost and future price points then Sony should have realised this back in the design stages instead of promising BC to the world and then snatching it away from one region at the last moment.
    ------------
    As Sony said they want a PS3 not a PS2.5. It's so expensive now because it's state of the art. Prises will drop pretty rapidly over the next 18mths. It's future proof for atleast 7 or 8 years.

  • enzima #371 5 years ago

    "Of course, a lot of blogs and "news" sites are also going to make this kind of "mistakes" in order to make it sound worse than it already is and to maximize consumers rage towards Sony."

    You need to switch off your computer, get out and enjoy life. No more threads for you. It should be a law. When someone brings up this paranoid behaviour, they should be helped. Again, CONSPIRACY ARE ONLY IN YOUR HEAD!!!!!

  • Noctilucent #372 5 years ago

    Crouchy you still don't get it. It's not that Sony won't make more games compatible through firmware updates, it's just that we are required to pay more on launch and get less than the US and JAP gamers did. This is what people are angry about.

    If Sony had kept the PS2 chip in the console for the launch and then take it out to cut costs and put software emulation in, even though partly broken, for the first price cut of the console, then I don't think people would have been this angry.

    That's the whole point of the angry comments on this thread.

  • JediMasterMalik #373 5 years ago

    @mattigan - I think you'll find I have never done such a thing, you are simply thinking I would have done since I'm not out to kill Sony execs at the moment like many people in this thread.

    It's really quite pathetic that just because you don't blow your casket every time a company makes a mistake you're labelled a fanboy, and accused of doing things you haven't done.

    @effinwolly- Unless they lose exclusivity of Resistance and Motorstorm, I will be getting one at launch. Subsequently, MGS4, FFXIII, DMC4 and others. Happy?
    Edited by 2 at 24/02/07 @ 12:51

  • crouchy #374 5 years ago

    Crouchy you still don't get it. It's not that Sony won't make more games compatible through firmware updates, it's just that we are required to pay more on launch and get less than the US and JAP gamers did. This is what people are angry about.

    If Sony had kept the PS2 chip in the console for the launch and then take it out to cut costs and put software emulation in, even though partly broken, for the first price cut of the console, then I don't think people would have been this angry.

    That's the whole point of the angry comments on this thread.
    -------
    This has been expected for ages. The only reason for hardware emulation was to give them time to get the software emulation sorted. Globally now all PS3's will have software emulation. All the big PS2 titles will or soon will be fine. It's the lesser titles that wont work.

  • JediMasterMalik #375 5 years ago

    BARBIES HORSE ADVENTURES!!!

    Make it so Sony, make it so... ;)

  • crouchy #376 5 years ago

    I'd love to see a link supporting this.. Not that it matters, as some of us want the so called "lesser" titles to work...
    -------
    A PS2 plays ALL PS2 games you know?.

  • JediMasterMalik #377 5 years ago

    To be fair, no PS3 plays all PS2 games, it's a very high number elsewhere, but still not perfect. I would have kept the EE in there and introduced sw emulation until it at least has alot of great titles, if they don't this is a very bad move. Like I said, we need to wait and see.
    Edited by 1 at 24/02/07 @ 13:03

  • dirigiblebill #378 5 years ago

    409! W00t!

    First one to 425 gets a free ps3.

  • JediMasterMalik #379 5 years ago

    Haven't got it yet, just finished Okami, one of thee best endings ever I have to say. I think I'll wait for FFXII, simply as Uni is getting heavy now. Really wanna play it though. :(

  • JediMasterMalik #380 5 years ago

    XD

  • dirigiblebill #381 5 years ago

    Check out the guardian's Guide for reviews of Okami and FFXII today.

    Double. Whammy. Long live the ps2 :) Will see if I can pick up FF later on this afternoon...

    Btw 'services rendered'? Is this some twisted attempt to creep out the fanboy masses and drive them away from the thread?

  • dirigiblebill #382 5 years ago

    I might see if I can swap in something for a copy at Gamestation. Cheers for the info though.

    I think the less I know about this 'deal', the better :x

  • dirigiblebill #383 5 years ago

    Jesus God, Kato. Too much detail.

    I hope you've got some kind of restraining order in place Malik.

  • JediMasterMalik #384 5 years ago

    Kato, I think you scared everyone off. :p

    Edit- He's talking about cooking obviously, Kato's a crap cook.
    Edited by 2 at 24/02/07 @ 13:45

  • dirigiblebill #385 5 years ago

    MAKE IT STOP. MAKE IT STOP.

  • Noctilucent #386 5 years ago

    Crouchy I knew that Sony was aiming for software emulation. I dug up an interview of Kutaragi from 2003 saying that. I also knew that they put the actual chips in instead of software emulation becuase the emulator wasn't done yet.

    However, the US and JAP gamers got most of their PS2 games working at launch, while we will NOT. That they will work in the future is not good enough to justify Sony asking more money for less. If I am to pay more at launch, I want to get the same functionality as the other territories did before me, not less. The launch PS3 is an underspecced PS3 in Europe, while the price is higher and that's that.

    So please stop deluding yourself that you will be getting the same. You will not.

  • t1nt`1n #387 5 years ago

    I'm cancelling my preorder.

  • dirigiblebill #388 5 years ago

    "However, the US and JAP gamers got most of their PS2 games working at launch, while we will NOT."

    We won't know if this is so until release day, so at this point the discussion is purely academic.

    Anyway get with the picture, Noctilucent- 'limited' ps2 functionality was this morning's bugbear. We've since moved onto FF and vegetable S&M.

  • deepspacefox #389 5 years ago

    I would imagine Sony's priority for BC will be PS2 Platinum games as they're the ones that have sold the most, ergo they're the ones more punters will have. However, if the PS3 doesn't play stuff like 50 Cent Bulletproof that's a plus isn't it? Hell, they could throw in incompatibility for Little Britain too!

    If my Silent Hill 2 doesn't work, I'll just have to store it in the attic until Sony's firmware makes it so, (and spend the time enjoying Motorstorm, F.E.A.R., Resistance, Assassins Creed, etc) but I'm fully expecting stuff like FFXII, Okami & GOW 2 to run flawlessly. If they don't, THEN I'll start the Sony deaththreats.

    Lets not forget that MS had the same amount of bitching when its BC was announced and now no-one mentions it anymore.

    If thats the way it is, then thats the way it is, bitching about it isn't going to make Sony change their minds.

    Besides we can still play PS1 Ridge Racer, Resi 2, Tomb Raider, MGS1, Wipeout 2097, etc. From the tone of the press release it sounds like the PS3 will at least play the majority of PS1 games.

    Oh and BTW, Sony CAN'T drop the Blu-ray playback without redesigning the entire PS3. Why? PS3 games come on Blu-ray discs!

  • captainrentboy #390 5 years ago

    The PS3's preorders are fucking fly out of the door in my store, and by flying out I actually mean no bastard wants one, we got 60 preorders in the first week and now it's pretty much come to a halt. No doubt when we give the customers this fascinating piece of hardware news we'll lose a few more deposits. Things really aren't looking promising at the moment, I still get spat on whenever I tell people it's gonna cost 'em 425 big ones.
    Ohhh and to put the preorders in some perspective,in total we managed
    86 Wiis (Forced to stop at that point mind)
    75 PSPS
    and 112 Xbox 360 preorders before launch.

  • JediMasterMalik #391 5 years ago

    I really can't beleive anyone would cancel a pre-order over this though. You're really buying a PS3 for PS2 games? meh

  • BLACKSHEEP #392 5 years ago

    I wonder what else has been "streamlined" in the PS3 (Euro Edition) like problems with the few Blu-ray games which happened when they "slimlined" the PS2 Hmmmmm

  • Skeletor #393 5 years ago

    There are many people who would like to buy a PS3 also for PS2 titles like Okami and a couple of others. Those people are cancelling their preorders because in a situation like this it makes much more sense to go for a cheap PS2 and just wait. Sony created an atmosphere of uncertainty even the casual gamer can feel. Delays, very few good games, no true 1080p with 99% of the PS3 games, insanely high price, poor online service, and now what looks like a severe cut down on backw. comp.
    All those reasons made me finally cancel my preorder and go for a PS2 and Wii instead. Right now, the PS3 is imo just too much risk for too much money.

  • enzima #394 5 years ago

    "Professional help is also indicated for people who make excessive use of all caps and exclamation marks. "
    A very good point indeed!

  • mkreku #395 5 years ago

    JMM: You're really buying a PS3 for PS2 games?

    God that's annoying. You bloody well know that noone buys a PS3 just to play PS2 games, don't be a dork. But they've PROMISED full BC, I have 100+ (I never bothered to count, but I get them for free from work) PS2 titles and I fully expect to be able to play my Singstar's and newest games on the PS3. Actually, I fully expect to be able to play 98% of my games on the PS3. Even obscure titles as Roadtrip: A Road Adventure, one of my favourite games.

    Not that it matters now anyhow, I won't be paying for one. With a little bad luck I'll be getting one anyhow in April.

  • Skeletor #396 5 years ago

    @mkreku
    NOT "just to play PS2 games" but "ALSO to play PS2 games"! Is it really that difficult to understand? In the last 2 or 3 months I've heared many shopkeepers telling people "If you have the money then you should buy the PS3 - this way you can play every PS2 AND PS3 game"...guess, that's not so true any more.
    Edited by 1 at 24/02/07 @ 18:07

  • Derblington #397 5 years ago

    You do know why shopkeepers want people to buy the PS3 over the PS2 right?

  • Skeletor #398 5 years ago

    @Derblington
    Of course they want to sell the PS3 but that's what Sony was telling them all the time. Right now, the PS3 is just a total mess...I'm extremely dissapointed.

  • Derblington #399 5 years ago

    So would you prefer a launch shipment of the old model and the new model to be introduced later or for the machine to never have hardware revisions?

  • Skeletor #400 5 years ago

    I would have prefered to be able to buy the cheaper 20Gb one with the same backwards comp. as the JP/US one. Imo they should have switched to software emulation not until the emulator is finished. After criticizing M$ they are now immitating them in terms of backwards comp. To me, it clearly shows that things are not "on schedule" and Sony has some serious problems with its new platform.

  • Derblington #401 5 years ago

    If it really bothers people that much just import a different region machine?

  • smelly #402 5 years ago

    Can i summarise all these posts? People on here fall into 2 categories:

    1. Devote sony fanboys who dont care about this.. And would quite happily sell their houses to get the new ps3 regardless of whether the uk version was a ps1 in a box.

    2. Everyone else who think that sony are fucking up royaly.

    That's everyones posts summed up.. No need to post any more :-)

  • rotmm #403 5 years ago

    I'll post

  • Skeletor #404 5 years ago

    @Derblington
    If it just would be that easy...unfortunately there's this annoying little feature called regioncode. By importing a JP or US machine you WON'T be able to watch/play neither any euro Bluray movies, euro DVDs, nor any euro PS2 titles. Only PS3 soft is supposed to be regionfree. That's how fucked up this whole situation is...

  • _Price_ #405 5 years ago

    Right. Ok. Fine.

    Bastards.

    On a more productive / deductive note: this may be to stop the slew of second-hand consoles that come on the market after launch of a backwards compatable console. The PS2 has sold who-knows-how-many units since release, helped in no small part by the slimline varient. If the console was fully backwards compatable I'm sure that a fair number of these would be snapped-up by former Xbox / Nintendo fanboys.

    By being a bunch of cocks, Sony may be hoping to extend the amount of time that it'll be able to sell PS2s and/or increase the number of people buying the PS3 as their first PlayStation console in order play the more recent classics-in-the-making (FF XII, Okami, GoW II, etc.) that will inevitibly be compatible on the new console.

    As I said. Bastards.

  • gp2x4tw #406 5 years ago

    Hey Sony, eat this:

    I hope microsoft drop their price to 150quid and give you the royal shaft you deserve.



    Dear xxxxx,

    Your order has been successfully cancelled. For your reference, here is a
    summary of your order:

    You just cancelled order #203-6683449-xxxxxxx placed on 21 Feb 2007.

    Status: CANCELLED

    __________________________________________________ ___________________

    1 of Sony PlayStation 3 Console (60GB Premium Version)
    1 of MotorStorm (PS3)

    __________________________________________________ ___________________

    Because you only pay for items when we ship them to you, you won't be
    charged for any items that you cancel.

    Thank you for visiting Amazon.co.uk.

    ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
    Amazon.co.uk
    Earth's Biggest Selection
    [link url=http://www.amazon.co.uk< br /> ]http://www.amazon.co.uk< br /> [/link]
    ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------

  • dirigiblebill #407 5 years ago

    I say again, all of this is purely academic (i.e. a lot of pointless bitching) until we find out what works with what on release day.

  • dirigiblebill #408 5 years ago

    Thank you and good night.

  • Zastai #409 5 years ago

    While I agree there's no point in bitching too much until the full extent of the BC (or lack thereof) is known, I will say this:
    - BC matters enough for me to cancel my preorder, especially since the BC list won't be made public before launch day
    - The people making PCSX2 have been at it for years and still the compatibility of their software emulator is hardly great. Few games are playable enough to reach the end of the game, and those that are are usually very slow, have limited audio support and usually some graphics glitches as well. From my own PS2 games collection (~40 titles, basically Singstar + FreQuency/Amplitude/GH + most all decent RPGs on PS2), only the Nippon Ichi games (Disgaea & co) run pretty well. Newer games are less likely to work because they exploit every trick in the book (and several tricks not in the book) to make them as pretty and as fast as possible. Sony may have the advantage of having more detailed info on the hardware, but that doesn't make me expect they'll do such a great job. All those people saying that FFXII, Okami and GoW2 will certainly be playable day 1 are talking out of their collective asses; the newer the game, the less likely it is to work in any software emulator.
    - The press release clearly states a limited PS2 compatibility; that in itself would not be so bad if it would reach the ~98% support enjoyed by the hardware-backed US/JP consoles within a reasonable timeframe. But even though they say future firmwares will improve things, they also say they won't be focusing on BC anymore, so I wouldn't be surprised if such updates are very limited indeed.
    Edited by 1 at 25/02/07 @ 01:41

  • Noctilucent #410 5 years ago

    I have to agree with Zastai. Couldn't have put it better myself.

  • MicroSoftMan #411 5 years ago

    See i New in the end you would Crawl on your knees to us, face it were going to take everything over, The UK is nothing but the 51state lol M$ FTW!!!!

  • bunnymc #412 5 years ago

    I wont be playin PS and PS2 games anyway so its fine by me

  • waffle #413 5 years ago

    Can someone please answer my question regarding PS3 audio? How long has down-mixing of 7.1 Dolby audio to 5.1 been part of the PS3 spec?

    Given that the PS3 has at times been marketed as a cheap blueray movie player with games functionality, how does this affect output fidelity of HD content? Is Dolby audio even used on Blueray film discs or is it only Linear PCM?

  • GamerG #414 5 years ago

    I've cancelled my Pre-order until I know what the compatability is like.. I was going to sale my PS2 to put towards the cost and I dont have the room on my media shelf for teh two

    ORDER REF : 060516-0076
    STATUS : Cancelled

    Dear XXXX,

    Thank you for shopping at Gamestation.

    Kind Regards,
    Customer Service
    [link url=http://www.gamestation. co.uk/
    ]http://www.gamestation. co.uk/
    [/link]

    If you have any questions, please contact us via:
    email sales@gamestation.co.uk
    phone (0845 345 0335)

  • Kropotkin #415 5 years ago

    What I'm wondering what 'limited capatibility' means for PS2 games. I suspect the list of games is very short and that even they will have limited functionality. Here's my predicted PS2 BC game list for the PS3:

    1) Need For Speed (any of them) - 100% functionality (for fear of being linched by a horde of chavs)
    2) Gran Turismo 4 (Crashes when player completes licensing)
    3) Tekken 5 (Only playable for 10 minutes after which it locks up)
    4) Ratchett and Clank 3 (playable for 30 seconds, in black and white and there is no sound)
    5) God of War 2 (could possibly get the title screen up if the planets are aligned and your house is facing in an easterly direction. On a Tuesday. At about tea time. And your name is Trevor)
    6) Okami (AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA Oh stop you're killing me! Not a chance! NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS! AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA)
    7) Final Fantasy 12 (See (6) Okami above).

    Lets just hope I'm so very wrong here....

  • bmoviebob #416 5 years ago

    I found this snippet, I hope it to be true. I remain hopefull that they (sony) wont totally fuck it up. Which I trully believe a lack of backward compatibility will be.

    "What isn't talked about much is that the backwards compatibility issue is very temporary. Most of your PS-One titles are going to work. Recent PS2 titles will work. Older PS2 titles will be added through software updates in a matter of months. It's temporary, guys. Very temporary and not a big deal. Unless, of course, you'd rather not see a price drop for over a year..."

  • Skeletor #417 5 years ago

    @bmoviebob
    Where have you found this? Sounds like the person is just hoping that it won't turn out too bad instead of delivering some facts. As Zastai already posted, the PS2 is a bitch to emulate and many games use all sorts of tricks that WILL make the job even more difficult.
    Two facts why I believe that Sony will take its time with the emulation software updates:
    1. Those updates are only necessary for the Europeans...the territory that Sony clearly doesn't care about that much because people are buying stuff anyway.
    2. Developing those updates takes time and money (ask M$...). Since they're trying to save money by using software emulation I seriously doubt that they're planning to invest in having as much PS2 games emulated as possible. Why emulating stuff when people are still able to buy a PS2?

  • 2099net #418 5 years ago

    UK gamers charged more for inferior PS3
    [link url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne ws/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/23/nplaystation123.xml ]http://ww w.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht...[/link]

    Now there's proper reporting and a proper headline Eurogamer. Why isn't this headline news?

  • Shrub #419 5 years ago

    Sony, and Phil Harrison in particular, need to be held to account for the broken promise regarding backwards compatibility. All that guff about what you get when you buy into the Playstation brand, the years of support you can expect even after the hardware (PS2 in this case) is no longer manufactured, is now revealed to be just so much hot air.

    The title of this article is a disgrace. 'New' it may be, but that's hardly the most salient point.

    Eurogamer, I look to you to seek an interview with, and ask the hard questions of Sony. Don't let them get away with their usual evasive double-talk. Yeah, pretend you're Jeremy Paxman interviewing the Home Secretary or something like that! :)

  • GamerG #420 5 years ago

    I agree with 2099 this website is called "Euro"gamer so as Europeans are getting proper shafted by Sony this should be a much more major issue on the site! We have to know Sony how we feel!

  • rogermellie #421 5 years ago

    Blimey, I feel sorry for Phil Harrison as he's going to have to back peddle to explain this one!

    Backwards compatibility was a major price benefit over the XBox306, especially with the PS2 back catalogue. And since the early adopters will mostly be running cross platform games it makes no sense. I wish Sony would have concentrated on the gaming side of things (rumble, B.C., etc.) instead of focusing too much on being a media hub.

    Let's just hope the ICO team can justify the PS3 purchase, eh?

  • MicroSoftMan #422 5 years ago

    look i am sorry for my last post, honestly i don't want to see the ps3 fale or even for MS to own the console market, i am just tired of all the damn hate that is generated over something a company told you guyswas going to happen from the start and then an MSfanboy like me comes in pretending to have like sony but now, due to this doesn't, it's pretty sad. look here is proof that Sony told you guys this from the start, so relax i mean the company is doing there best, they just need better manegement, i think PHIL is a good guy,, any who here [link url=http://www.joystiq.com/ 2006/06/05/ps3s-rumored-backcompat-solution-a-ps2-inside/#co mments
    ]http://ww w.joystiq.com/2006/06/05/ps3s-r...[/link]
    oh by the way windows VISTA SUCKS RIGHT NOW lol, but will patch it to hell until it gets up to xp standard, look we do it all the time and screw people only 400 pounds to have VISTA ULTIMATE on your computer!!!! wow what a bargain and no i am just an ex-employee of MS who is sick of there business practices.
    Edited by 2 at 25/02/07 @ 18:34

  • SeesThroughAll #423 5 years ago

    MicroSoftMan, you're better off elsewhere, nobody will listen to you because you're speaking against MS... they are loved around here, in an european site of all places!

    Besides, only Sony is evil, Sony-hate is the new black, etc. remember that...

  • Overlush #424 5 years ago

    It is a bit of a dirty trick. They save money yet we still pay more than anyone else? Hrmf.

    Wouldn't be such a big deal if the PS2 wasn't as strong as it is with so many good games on it's horizon and in it's catalogue.

    Where once was certainty, lies doubt :(
    Edited by 1 at 25/02/07 @ 19:30

  • SeesThroughAll #425 5 years ago

    /Watches the masses walking rightfully angry, only to commit an even bigger mistake than supporting the failing Sony...
    Gates will be pleased...

  • Lother #426 5 years ago

    You're all forgetting: FFXII is GARBAGE(squarenix did a thorough job in shitting on their brand, as well as sony did on theirs). Other PS2 games are nice though. Oh and, you keep saying you'll buy the PS3 when it's cheaper and has exclusives, let me shine some light on the situation: You will NEVER buy a PS3. Why? Because there will never be enough units sold to justify for developers a reason to make games on the console. I'm sorry but there just aren't that many people out there willing to shell 425 quid. It's been proven, after the first few hundred thousand maniacs buy it, the average Joe shits on PS3.

    People aren't buying it, developers aren't making games for it. They're not making games for 360 either, MS is still the King of the Shooters console. Since when the heck is a shooter a musthave console game anyways? Shooters BELONG on the pc with a good old fashioned MOUSE+WASD combination. 360 isn't a cheap kit either. Frankly this generation is messed up badly. Much as I like the Wii I don't see Silent Hill 5 coming out for it and other mid range games. Japan will always shit on 360 and japanese developers make awesome games. Gaming as you know it is gone. Gone are the days when any genre could appear on the king system. Back then everyone knew who was king, psx and ps2, developers wouldn't hesitate to make a game for them.

    Now they'll be forced to split up between the console, there wont be a true king this generation that will have ALL the developers on it's side.

  • floppylobster #427 5 years ago

    @ spongebob (way back)

    "because most of you NEVER EVER even bought PS2 and were part of the mob who put it down last gen. And because last time around PS2 "won" despite your bad mouthing efforts, you're having a hard-on of a good time when Sony finally seems to be failing."

    Absolutely. I am kinda enjoying this, because it was the loyal Sony 'mob' that put down Sega and prematurely ended the life of the Dreamcast, which was a damn fine machine. They also called the N64 a "kids machine". Which is shortsighted bullshit from people who think games have to look 'cool' to be worth playing (or for them to be seen playing).

    I ran a game store during this era and every cunt who worked at the bar next door only wanted only easy-to-play PlayStation games. That meant sport, racing and fighting. And so many games of this era fell into these categories. And so many were shit. And that was all that sold, and so that's what companies started to release more of. And to me that was a dark time for gaming - a creative slump. Who did I blame? I blamed Sony for trying to expand their market to bring in non-gamers. And doing it by making totally disposable games aimed at people who didn't have time for gaming.

    But then the DS came out. And then the 360 made online gaming fun for console owners. Then the Wii showed what innovation really meant. And then the PSP came out, bringing ports and uninspired dross. And then the PS3 came out and copied features of the other consoles while hardly changing their controller design for the third time. And people began to tire of what Sony was offering.

    And now Sony are failing somewhat. Now those 'gamers' they courted - those who were never really that into gaming - are not buying their new console. And those hardcore gamers, who expect some sort of evolution in gaming, are not buying it either. And Sony have brought it on themselves as far as I'm concerned. Focusing on graphics, playing it safe, and pushing too hard to make money off peripherals.

    I am enjoying this and despite what some people will tell you, gaming will be the winner on the day. The DS, Wii and 360 have advanced gaming further in two years than it ever moved during the entire 'PlayStation era'. Sony are the EA of console manufacturers.
    Edited by 2 at 26/02/07 @ 04:15

  • Dabs #428 5 years ago

    Just as another consideration: what on Earth is the point now of selling the PS2 memory-card adapter, now that most PS2 games won't work on the PS3 and therefore that PS2 savegames will, for the most part, be entirely redundant to European PS3s?

    Pathetic. Despite all the being messed around with up 'til this point, I was still - still - umming and ahhing about the possibility buying a PS3. This last little insult has sealed the deal for me. Best case scenario now, that is to say from a pro-Sony perspective; I'll leave it for a few years, probably until it's sub-Ł100 and I'm getting itchy to play Team ICO's latest game(s).

  • Ryze #429 5 years ago

    floppylobster

    +1

  • Steroyd #430 5 years ago

    /Wakes up from FFXII coma.

    WOW!!!

    /goes back into FFXII coma.

  • frod. #431 5 years ago

    First add the meat, usually chicken and sausage (such as Andouille or chorizo), then add vegetables and tomatoes to cook, then add seafood, adding rice and stock in equal proportions at the very end. Bring to a boil and let simmer for 30-60 minutes, stirring infrequently.

  • Les #432 5 years ago

    “And now Sony are failing somewhat. Now those 'gamers' they courted - those who were never really that into gaming - are not buying their new console. And those hardcore gamers, who expect some sort of evolution in gaming, are not buying it either. And Sony have brought it on themselves as far as I'm concerned. Focusing on graphics, playing it safe, and pushing too hard to make money off peripherals.

    I am enjoying this and despite what some people will tell you, gaming will be the winner on the day. The DS, Wii and 360 have advanced gaming further in two years than it ever moved during the entire 'PlayStation era'. Sony are the EA of console manufacturers.”

    Wow, if there ever was a wrong analysis…

    Sony’s biggest mistake was that they didn’t expect MS killing their xbox so soon. And then made the mistake to rush the PS3. Every stupid fuck up they’ve made since you can trace back to this. PS3 had to be released sooner than anticipated, making it too expensive for Sony to manufacture and to reduce costs they’ve been continually cutting back on features (although they did add HDMI to the cheaper model).

    I can’t understand why any gamer would be enjoying this as we’re all losers. We’ve got an xbox 1.1 (only graphics upgrade, nothing else) and a gamecube with an innovative controller but unfortunately no games worth playing except for a gamecube port. And now a PS3 with limited backwards compatibility. Hopefully the uproar on the internet will make Sony do a 180 like MS did before… Otherwise I’ll just have to pretend like this generation never happened. At least there’s enough excellent PS2 games still available to keep me a happy gamer for the next 5 years. Here's hoping my PS2 will last that long as well.

  • Les #433 5 years ago

    Maybe assigning it 1.1 was a bit too generous. 1.01 would better describe the 'next gen' games it has delivered so far...

  • Les #434 5 years ago

    Come on, there’s not much next gen about the 360. Same goes for the PS3 btw. All they do is increase the resolution of the graphics.

    To me, the Wii currently is the only console with next-gen potential (I don't care about the number of pixels a console is capable of pushing) but unfortunately the games don’t deliver just yet. And I’m afraid those idiots at EA and Ubisoft simply aren’t capable to generate anything revolutionary so it’ll all be up to Nintendo again.

  • dirigiblebill #435 5 years ago

    'Who did I blame? I blamed Sony for trying to expand their market to bring in non-gamers. And doing it by making totally disposable games aimed at people who didn't have time for gaming.'

    coughTOUCHGENERATIONcough

    'The DS, Wii and 360 have advanced gaming further in two years than it ever moved during the entire 'PlayStation era'. Sony are the EA of console manufacturers'

    Horseshit, mate, pure unadulterated horseshit. Good luck to you.

  • enzima #436 5 years ago

    Kato, don't you know n3xt g3n "starts only when we say so"? ;P

  • Les #437 5 years ago

    “I guess it depends on whether your expectations of next gen consoles is realistic, I mean what exactly did you expect from the 360? It doesn't cook supper, you can't have sex with it, damn it must be crap and not real next gen at all!”

    What I expect from a next gen console is next gen gameplay, not a graphics update. Thanks to MS rushing the ‘next gen’ before anyone was ready, this generational shift would be one of the most unexciting ever, were it not for Nintendo’s Wii. I hope the console can deliver, it sure has the potential.

  • dirigiblebill #438 5 years ago

    'What I expect from a next gen console is next gen gameplay, not a graphics update.'

    I would tend to agree, though I think superior graphics (as enabled by faster processors, more cache space, etc) are still an important part of the package. 'Immersion' is the relevant buzzword, and there's nothing quite so immersive as being able to pick out an enemy sniper from a couple of miles away, or watch a roomful of incidental animations without any slowdown. As with everything else it's what you do with it that counts :)

    The 360 does tend to err towards mere window-dressing at times, though. Gears of War is basically Rogue Trooper with advanced prettiness and good multiplayer. Crackdown is GTA3 with more jumping and better draw distances. Don't get me started on Lost Planet.

    Teh real n3xt-g3n remains, for me, Oblivion and Oblivion only.

  • dirigiblebill #439 5 years ago

    @ Kato

    'Next-gen', according to sundry M$, Sony and Nintendo press releases, ought to offer something which would be inconceivable on an older console, and not merely in terms of graphical polish (as distinct from things like AI, processing speed etc). At the moment what we're actually getting is a selection of eminently playable but otherwise unremarkable visual updates. The Wii represents a conceptual leap, but with the exception of Nintendo themselves nobody seems prepared to capitalise on it.

    Ultimately game developers rather than hardware manufacturers determine where the bar is set. Which makes it rather irritating that every few years we have to swallow another bleeding generation just as devs are getting to grips with the last one. Just the way the market works, I suppose.

    /Mourns xbox/gamecube
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 14:24

  • dirigiblebill #440 5 years ago

    'Surely you must know, seeing as it is something you expect?'

    On the contrary, I know very little about true 'next gen' gameplay. All I know is (a) it apparently shouldn't be possible on a 'current gen' machine, and (b) that I've been promised it, to the tune of approximately four hundred quid, and (c) that beyond Oblivion and Wiisports I don't seem to be getting it, which confirms my view that this is all a bunch of marketing hogwash designed to sell consoles :)

    Ask me again this time next year.

  • belziah #441 5 years ago

    495

  • belziah #442 5 years ago

    496

  • belziah #443 5 years ago

    497

  • belziah #444 5 years ago

    can you see the subtle pattern emerging..............

  • belziah #445 5 years ago

    499

  • belziah #446 5 years ago

    Woo HOO

    500th post

    /I need to sit down
    /I need to lay down
    /black spots before my eyes

  • dirigiblebill #447 5 years ago

    RIP PS3 back-compatability thread. May you finally, finally, rest in peace.

  • Les #448 5 years ago

    “You still haven't quite answered my question about exactly what you beleive "nextgen gameplay" is? Surely you must know, seeing as it is something you expect?”

    No I don’t. I know what I currently have. I don’t have to form an opinion on what the future will be in order to determine, once the future arrives, whether or not it differs from the current situation (by then the past).

  • kangarootoo #449 5 years ago

    @Les

    "I don’t have to form an opinion on what the future will be in order to determine, once the future arrives, whether or not it differs from the current situation (by then the past)."

    That is an awesome sentence (and also quite true) :)

  • mkreku #450 5 years ago

    What I expect as my "next gen" (what an incredibly stupid name, by the way) experience is life-like graphics, life-like physics and hardware that pushes the limitations for the developers so far out that they'll be able to do almost exactly what they want. This is one of the reasons why I was so disappointed with Gears of War (and all games on my Xbox 360 so far): it doesn't have destructible environments, it doesn't have great physics, it doesn't have bigger worlds, less loading times, more content. All it has is better graphics. I'm sorry, but taking ten year old gameplay (duck & shoot) and adding shiny graphics on top of that just doesn't cut it for me. Especially if said gameplay only lasts for 10-12 hours and STILL feels repetitive!

    I have high hopes for Mass Effect and Alan Wake though. I imagine when those games are released is when the real "next gen" starts.

  • dirigiblebill #451 5 years ago

    ''I expect more next gennyness but I don't know what it is yet that I want or expect'... is basically what you two are saying'

    What I'm saying is that the so-called 'next-gen' ps360 lineup *as of the moment* seems to offer nothing I haven't seen on older consoles besides shiny visuals. I need a little more for my moolah, thanks :)

    The Wii certainly bucks this trend (if you can get over being sold a controller for the price of a gamecube) and is cheaper to boot. Pity there are so few games out for it.

    'consoles evolve slowly over time'

    Yep, hence 'ask me again in a year's time' when there are more compelling titles out there. I'll probably have bought a second-hand 360 or something by then.

  • witchdrash #452 5 years ago

    Preorder gone away now. This BC issue has really frustrated me, because you listen to all the promises and the scorn poured on MS when they announced their bc strategy and scee pull this. What happened to 98% compatibility (or did that have a sub-context of only outside pal areas?)

    There are people saying wait and see, and to a degree I agree, however Sony always put the most positive spin on everything and if LIMITED was the best response they would come up that's a real issue. Also the fact they are not even concentrating on PS2 backwards compatibility suggests that the number of games will probably not increase significantly over the consoles life. In addition the fact they don't even have a list, not even a so far this is what we got working, and wont release it until launch day suggests another horrible suprise. Is it any suprise their sales director walked?? I think scee are in for a nasty shock on launch day, and, unfortunately, it has ultimately been a situation of their own creation..

    Ahh well back to my 360 and wii, maybe when I go to hk this summer I will pick up a cheap 98% backwards compatible ps3 and chuckle to myself, then again "cheap" is something of a misnomer when I comes to the ps3...

  • dirigiblebill #453 5 years ago

    'I really don't recall when it was made law that a console had to have a funky controller or even show innovation at all to be next gen'

    But that's what Ninty and Sony/M$ respectively keep telling us, isn't it?

    In any case there HAVE been examples of genuinely genre-busting gaming on new systems- Mario 64, for instance.

    At least with the Wii I KNOW I'll be getting something I haven't played before on an older Nintendo system- gamecube hardware, shitty ports and tech demos notwithstanding.

    Maybe I do expect too much from my consoles (prob just spoilt from the ps2 era) but frankly I don't have the cash to fork out for a new one if it's just going to serve up more of the same. That's why I don't buy the things at launch, for the most part.

    We'll see how the year pans out. Bioshock, Mass Effect, White Knight Story and Assassin's Creed may change my tune :)

  • dirigiblebill #454 5 years ago

    'I just don't get people like Les who claim the 360 is an XBox1.01 when it clearly is technically vastly more powerfull than anything of the current/last gen.'

    Yeah, I'd second that (can't remember if that was actually his point but it's a point that is frequently and unjustly made).

    'Also as far as I remember, I don't recall MS promising me anything with the 360 apart from Hi-Def gaming, and that's what I got...'

    I recall differently- Gates was harping on about 360 being 20% better than xbox on every front only the other week. But hey, it's all just spin innit. Best to let it slide and keep your eyes on the release schedule.

  • mkreku #455 5 years ago

    Kato: Also as far as I remember, I don't recall MS promising me anything with the 360 apart from Hi-Def gaming, and that's what I got...

    "Physics, as applied to gaming, is the replication of how objects in motion react."

    "Its applications are limitless, and the effects are simply incredible and unlock new possibilities in gaming when powered by Xbox 360."

    "What this means for gamers is that empty, static game environments are a thing of the past. Now, you're able to move around in believable cityscapes, chat with lifelike non-player characters (NPCs), and manipulate the world around you in ways you've only imagined."

    Source: [link url=http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/physics.htm
    ]http://ww w.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox3...[/link]

    "Prepare yourself for a new generation of games featuring new breakthroughs in artificial intelligence, all made possible by the power of Xbox 360™."

    Source: [link url=http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/ artificialintelligence.htm
    ]http://ww w.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox3...[/link]

    "There's never been a system launching with so many must-have games."

    Source: [link url=http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/whybuy.htm ]http://ww w.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox3...[/link]

    Sony aren't the only ones promising gold and delivering lead. Microsoft did the exact same thing a year ago, only people seem to have forgotten that by now. Personally, I think they've only delivered on the graphics part so far. I'm still waiting for those groundbreaking worlds, intelligent AI and lifelike physics they've promised for so long.

  • SeesThroughAll #456 5 years ago

    Sony aren't the only ones promising gold and delivering lead. Microsoft did the exact same thing a year ago, only people seem to have forgotten that by now. Personally, I think they've only delivered on the graphics part so far.

    Why oh why did you have to post facts?

  • mkreku #457 5 years ago

    I'm sorry, it won't happen again! :(

    BOYCOTT THE PS3!
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 12:52

  • bonker #458 5 years ago

    "Sony aren't the only ones promising gold and delivering lead. Microsoft did the exact same thing a year ago, only people seem to have forgotten that by now. Personally, I think they've only delivered on the graphics part so far. I'm still waiting for those groundbreaking worlds, intelligent AI and lifelike physics they've promised for so long."

    Hold on a minute - it's up to DEVELOPERS to develop better AI, physics etc etc. The fact they haven't 'bothered' so far is hardly MS' fault - MS can only provide the H/W grunt capable of delivering it and the dev tools & support to make it happen which, as far as I can gather, they've done a bang-up job of supplying ...

    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 12:58

  • enzima #459 5 years ago

    [link url=http://www. gamespot.com/features/6166437/index.html?tag=topslot;title;2 &om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot
    ]http://ww w.gamespot.com/features/6166437...[/link]
    Somebody does care about BC not being what was announced
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 13:02

  • mike_mgoblue #460 5 years ago

    If you want to compare the Playstation 3 to the Wii and the Xbox 360, then just go to this website and look at this excellent three-minute video that talks about the poor performance of the Playstation 3:

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=R98qC0fd_1w
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=R98qC0fd_1w
    [/link]

    This is a very entertaining and informative video that presents a LOT of facts from a very simple point of view!!!

  • Les #461 5 years ago

    please, not mike again...

  • Les #462 5 years ago

    “I'm not saying you're wrong in waiting for what you want mind, I just don't get people like Les who claim the 360 is an XBox1.01 when it clearly is technically vastly more powerfull than anything of the current/last gen.”

    There’s no point arguing that the 360 is way more powerful than the original xbox. But if there’s no good use to spend that additional power on, it’s rather pointless (you could compare this with the Blu-Ray vs. DVD argument often seen in EG threads).

    My argument is that you shouldn’t burden people with rather unnecessary console upgrades. By shortening the life cycle of the xbox, MS did just that.

    I’m glad MS and Sony are now confronted with a lack of interest from the general public for their new machines while Nintendo’s innovative machine is really hot. Hopefully this will lead to them trying harder next time.

  • dirigiblebill #463 5 years ago

    @ bonker

    'Hold on a minute - it's up to DEVELOPERS to develop better AI, physics etc etc.'

    I agree that this is ultimately the case, but let's not forget that manufacturers get to approve which games appear on their consoles. If there's a bundle of derivative cack on offer, it's at least in part because the manufacturer wants it that way :)

    Plus all the major players have in-house dev teams. What's to stop them setting a good example to third-party developers?
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 22:51