Eurogamer's Top 50 Games of 2008: 30-21 Comments by Eurogamer staff

I don't believe that MGS 4 is in a different level to everything else, thats why it should be scored separately. I just believe that MGS4 is a significantly different game. Its main concept is those cutscenes and to duck points off of MGS for cutscene is like docking points from a cheetah for running too fast. You are misunderstanding the idea of the game and it is not only MGS that this happens with. Many other games are also misunderstood through this scoring system.

That is why I would like to have a non-scoring based system. But yes, Farzlepot you're right. In this world money and fame is what counts and it seems putting a mere number at the bottom of the page brings floods of people on here to talk and that is what advertisers want. We live in such a flawed and fickle world.

Ah...yes Jellyhead...i was the one who said IGN was better but then again, lets be honest!! why would you ever read or trust a footy review from an american site? And yes i did read the football manager review and i was left thinking to myself whether they played the same game i did. Thats like EG reviewing an American football game...i wouldn't trust them on that. But overall, in my personal opinion, i prefer IGN.

MGS4 was over so quick. The ridiculous install method prevented all but the diehards replaying it. I mean reinstalling everytime you change chapter? Insane.

So all I remember is a few points in the early chapters where it approached it's old greatness, and that wretched ending.

I still think the inability of Kojima to kill fucking Snake cost the game a lot in opinion. At least if it had gone out with a bang it might have been looked at more fondly.

Wii Fit 5 places better than MGS4 rofl ...this list sucks so bad.

Seriously guys how the hell is one of the best PS3 games MGS4 below casual tat like Singstar and Wiifit???

/ shakes head at the EG top 50 and people involved

Because they're possibly more fun?

(and more interactive)

I'm not really a mgs fan but putting it in front of singstar ? Hehe i guess eurogamer is just trying to get attention.

The cutscenes are too long but only games i had more fun with this year have been LBP and fable 2.

ah, I remember you from the pik pik comments.

I see you are still a cunt.

And I see you were lying about the ignore list, brainless child.

LOL.

Ha the final 20... now it gets interesting...


I am shocked at how high MGS scores... I would have put it around 2934073298.

Website not loving game as much as me, website must be attention seeking.

You people are freaks.

Thankfully higher than the "fun" Saints Row 2 though eh?

MGS4 sucks. Can't wait for it to come to the X360

I'm getting so hyped from scouring the net and finding x360 friendly sites start ungrounded rumours every other week about how its coming to the 360, reminding us how much it sucks when they are proven wrong.

I can't believe how many people are slating Eurogamer for not following the trend with MGS4. Just because game site X and Y say it's the best thing ever doesn't mean that EG have to think so. Why, just because other critics think it's a 10/10 game, should EG give a flying f*uck? It's their review, it was fair, it was well-written, and I trust EG's scores more than any other site - that doesn't mean I think GS and IGN are wrong. Jesus.

Anyway. Singstar rocks.

Rich Leadbetter on Wii Fit: "Nothing short of a work of genius in attracting newcomers to videogaming. My family wheels it out every time a visitor turns up at the house, and everyone leaves wanting it. Of course, the game itself becomes dull and repetitive to anyone who plays it within a matter of days - hours, even.

It's not a game, it's a (somehow limited) excercise device offering a LOT more motivation than many of its competitors (see TV Shop).

For the MGS4 whiners: Please shut up. EG has been open about how the list was constructed, which makes arguments like "how did MGS4 get so low" absolutetly ridiculous. It got so low because not that many EG journos liked it.

I like this list format, and I like the informal chatter about each position, but I loathe the reader response. There should be an internet certificate to make sure less morons got online.

Why, just because other critics think it's a 10/10 game, should EG give a flying f*uck?

Fluck? Fruck? Fnuck? Fwuck?

"They're like one of those film sites that will pick their top ten films of the year and number 1 will be some obscure foreign film... "

What's wrong with that?

MGS4 should be higher.

Re SingStar disc releases: "whose content, infuriatingly, doesn't appear in the online store"

...not entirely true, some songs from later games are on the SingStore. Just not all of them.

Lets be honest, Far Cry 2 is a better GAME than MGS4. Far Cry 2 has set-peices that are not set-pieces, they are part of the game world and just happen, something a lot of games could learn from. Far Cry 2 is not perfect, but people complaining about 'it takes to long to travel' blah blah blah should just stick to the other 1000 fps's out there. Great idea from Ubi, I hope all the moaners don't make developers go back to bog-standard linear FPS's. MGS4 is one of the worst games I've played, great movie though.

"I'm not throwing a hissy fit, just pointing out that its a very controversial opinion compared to what appears to be the broad consensus. Which as I pointed out isn't a good way to foster confidence in the reviewers critical faculties here. "

Oh for GODS sake... please try to understand what this list is about. They even posted a nice helpful editors blog explaining all this - it's NOT a list based on the 'critical faculties' of the reviewers in any way shape or form. What they consider a good or bad game from the point of view of informing their readership is clearly laid out in the review text and scores for each individual game that comes through the doors. What this is is their own personal opinion and, guess what, when you have a marmite game like this and a weighting formula that means it's likely to end up lower down the list if, for example, two people out of ten put it at number one and the rest don't list it as opposed to a title that's on everyone's list but in tenth place.

The crying over MGS4 is just ridiculous - it's not that good a game UNLESS you're really into the Metal Gear storyline and genre (it really is almost a genre to itself at this point) at which point it's the best thing since sliced bread. It has its moments but for many it's simply too much of a slog through incredibly long, dull and boring cutscenes, not to mention a control scheme that's... let's be polite and say 'tricky' to make those moments worthwhile. For those who like the story its untouched but I personally would never recommend buying it to anyone who hasn't experienced the MGS games before. Rent it, see what you think and make your own decision from that.

I have to say, I think it's a shame that people are so commited to protecting certain franchises (Halo is another one that springs to mind). Let the games speak for themselves and, if one of your favourites ends up lower than you think it should, take a moment to think WHY that might have been the case instead of reaching for the flame button.

"/awaits MGS fans"

Nah, not MGS fan, more like someone who can see true merit in gaming design rather than novelty in every game I play. Eurogamer staff are people who enjoy playing games but don't have a clue about actual good design, as this list proves, sadly.

"Fable 2 has zero replay value, and thats unforgivable for an openended RPG."

How come?

Wonder what will get the most replys... the fact that the snorefest of MGS4 was lower placed than the #2 game GTABore

Remo: "EG want to be elitist... Now it is all about page clicks."

It's a bit odd that you don't see the contradiction here. If EG were manipulating the list for pageviews, they'd certainly not put something obscure that would attract fewer comments/complaints.

However, your deluded conspiracy theories are misplaced. Tom genuinely sends us an email asking us to submit our top 10 games, and then makes the Top 50 accordingly. None of us have anything to gain from lying in our lists. Sorry to be so dull.

Is not the havoc of the "staff" Top 50 it's point? And the word-thinks trying to excuse it the entertainment? Personally, I'm just happy to see some Ace Attorney love and see where we end up next.

SingStar. Wii Fit. For the love of God.

GTA4PC - harsh? Didn't it get 9/10?

Seriously, some people just love to see conspiracy. Also, does ANYONE read how they actually work this out? "Zomg this got a review of X but Y said Z about it" - Eurogamer is made up of many people, does it really surprise people that some of them have different opinions about things? Apparently so.

Perhaps MGS4 had sex with EGs mum.

Damn, most of the comments make these people look clueless. EG that is. They should take down this list of theirs, never attempt it again and just stick to the readers list. Would be much much better...

Have any of you read the reader reviews? They're rubbish

Remo, I don't know if it's your intention, but you portray yourself as an extremely unpleasant person.

"You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it to prove you are the journalistic elite"

I am the freelancer responsible for giving out the 10s for Slitherlink and Pic Pic. The latter of which was a UK release in English. I can assure you that my motivations for these marks were purely derived from playing such near-perfectly implemented puzzle games that provided me with literally hundreds of hours of fantastic entertainment, each. I can promise you that neither review has caused me to be elevated to the "journalistic elite". In fact, each review has resulted in two things.

1) A lot of people have bought those games and reported back how glad they are that they did.
2) Mindlessly spiteful people call me names on the internet.

What is it that you so fervently believe I was attempting to gain from writing what you claim to be dishonest reviews? Do you imagine there is a secret club for games writers who give a high mark to an obscure game, and I was attempting to buy my way into it? If there is such a club, I've yet to receive my invitation. Because, you see, I was doing my job where I mark a game according to what I believe it deserves.

I'm still confused at how you think deliberately including obscure or "elitist" (I can't imagine how more inappropriately that word could be used - it's a simple puzzle game on the DS) games increases page counts. I can assure you it doesn't. They receive a tiny fraction of the attention given to big budget current-gen console releases.

But to stress, if you don't agree with the exact placing of this Top 50, it means you're stupid and you smell.

Far Cry 2 better than MGS4 ?! ... Madness total madness

Act 4 in MGS4 will forever be one of my best gaming moments, cut scenes and all.

Wii fit better than MGS4?!!!

/faints

Yeah.. come on.. anyone who takes this stuff seriously is a fool who doesnt understand that people who make sites like this need to be paid by advertisers...

You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it

Well, no. Both of the Japanese puzzlers that have received 10/10 have deserved it, because they both have absolutely superb gameplay and offer roughly 100 times as many hours of play as a Tomb Raider or a Gears Of War for half the price.

The problem here is simply that you're a tiresome, pompous, arrogant little penis who can't accept a little-known game with simple graphics getting a higher mark than a big-name title with better graphics, because you have neither the maturity nor imagination to comprehend that there's more to good games than lots of polygons and hype, nor the grace and humility to admit that a game you haven't heard of (because you haven't been force-fed previews of it for nine months before it comes out) might still be great.

"The most begrudging 9/10 ever.
Which when you have reviewed the same game and given it 10/10 makes no sense. "

But, as I was trying (and perhaps failing) to stress, he didn't review the same game and give it 10/10. A completely different person, who was also paid by EG and also got his review published on EG, reviewed the console version, half a year earlier. As far as I know not many sites, and certainly not eurogamer, all gather round on every single review to come up with a score they all agree on. That's just up to the person reviewing the game in question.

My point was that the MSG4 commentary by Parkin was unprofessional in that he insulted his own consumer.

And I pointed out to you that that wasn't the slightest bit unprofessional, on any level. It shows either massive integrity (being prepared to say unpopular things if you believe them) or extremely cynical professionalism (deliberately generating a response from idiots to create traffic, which generates revenue), or both. Unfortunately, you're so pompous and arrogant that you think disagreeing with you is in and of itself "unprofessional".

Rev, can you post something that doesn't have a childish insult in it?

Yes, when I'm responding to someone who isn't a ridiculously stupid dickhead.

If you're really interested in my age, it can be easily found in numerous places on the internet, but I've been reviewing videogames professionally for just shy of 20 years, and suspect I probably know a little more than you about "how review based magazines do it".

remo, I'm sorry but again your facts are quite wrong. I have never written for a games magazine where the score has been an editorial consensus, and I've written for many.

As it happens, since Slitherlink was the first 10 I've given a game in my ten year career, I did talk extensively with Tom Bramwell about it before deciding it was the correct mark. I wanted to give it 10, believed it deserved it, but was cautious. Tom's emphatic agreement left me in no doubt.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "love this type of game", unless the type of game in question is, "really, exceptionally good ones." If that's what you meant, then yes, I love that type of game. If, as I disappointingly suspect, you mean "obscure Japanese puzzle games," then no, I have no love for such a genre. I'm not sure how someone could love games on this basis, since so many are so very terrible, most are mediocre, a few are good, and very few are excellent. I love the excellent ones - I find that's a good rule of thumb.

I'm not sure you realise how offensive and patronising it is to tell someone that they are pretending to/deluding themselves into liking something because it will cause them to stand out from the crowd. Let me assure you it is extremely offensive and patronising. I find your polarising of every subject very peculiar. My enjoying the exquisitely excellent Slitherlink and Pic Pic has not, in any fathomable way, caused me to "turn my back on blockbusters". I'm not sure how you could think it would. Do you believe that if someone enjoys something that's unfamiliar to the majority, it means they're emotionally incapable of enjoying something mainstream? I hope I can put your mind at rest by promising you this isn't the case. If it helps, my two favourite films this year were Wall-E, and Man On Wire. Iron Man was another favourite, and Låt den rätte komma in was stunning. Both in the same brain!

OMG MGS4 lower then Wii Fit!!!

:D

This is blasphemy

This is madness!!!

Madness??

THIS IS SPARTA!!!

Yes I've seen your shitty website.
From the design of it I thought it must have been stopped in 1993. You charge people for that?

No, I don't.

Why do you think everything is about you? I have said in at least 3 posts that I liked your review of pic pic very much. I admire your enthusiasm for it. My comments are at EG in general.

Make your mind up, son.

You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it to prove you are the journalistic elite

Only one writer in EG's entire history has given any "obscure Japanese puzzlers" 10/10 - the aforementioned Mr Walker, aka botherer. So do you like his reviews of these games and admire his enthusiasm, or is he just giving undeserving games high marks to prove he's the journalistic elite? Which is it?

Do you even know what your opinion is, or have you tied yourself in so many knots of dribbling kneejerk stupidity that you're just typing random sentences and hoping for the best?

Seeing a million comments about the MGS4 review doesn't surprise me...the fanboys were never going to let that go (even though, as I have said a few times before on this site, EG's review was the best you'll see anywhere). MGS4 was a good game and I have spent 100 hours playing Metal Gear Online - the online game included with MGS4 that nobody ever mentions.

But for five hours of playing the game you get 12 hours of cutscenes, some of which are the most amazing ever created, most of which are complete cack. So let's get over the whole "most amazing game ever" crap because it wasn't.

What amazes me about this list and the comments is a) the vitriolic and unprofessional comments made by the EG staff when discussing MGS4, and b) the fact anyone can read this site and think for one minute that EG tries to be controversial.

The fact that the journalists on this site could be so angered by their own readers that they felt the need to lash out at them, shows them to be quite pathetic individuals. And 'controversial'? They certainly fell for the Fallout 3 hype and followed the script predictably enough, giving it 10/10. And the Fable II review is probably the worst I have seen on EG.

This list is a joke - but this sort of thing always is. What has been revealed as a result of this list is what's truly shameful.

Fuck me, is "unprofessional" the Word Of The Day for December 29 on the 2008 Calendar For Idiots or something?

NB "unprofessional" does NOT, in fact, mean "different to what I think".

That so many readers were unable to parse his thoughts, to appreciate the nuance and contradictions in the experience suggests that Kojima's series primarily appeals to immature gamers

Anyone who doesn't agree with us is puerile and Kojima just makes games that appeal to sweaty teenagers who masturbate!

I exaggerate...but wow. Just WOW.

Cheers guys this is great!

Wii Fit? Fuck off.

I haven't played a single game placed from 50-21. I might have to look some of them up.

Im not surprised that big games are in really odd positions as they have to be a little bit unique compared to the other load of game websites. The thing thats annoying me is the difference in writing style the staff are using about the games that are in positions lower then expected. Like the quote J Huxley just mentioned. For most of the other games its i enjoyed this feature, i thought the game was great etc. For the ones that are lower then expected they are just saying some long winded bull that if you sum it up makes the person look like an idiot. For example

Alec Meer: I really have no time for this. I once played it with the staff of a Nintendo magazine, who all seemed to be trapped in some sort of multi-orgasmic feedback loop for the entire duration, and I left like a visitor from another world. I slipped away quietly when no one was looking, fearful that clothes were about to be removed and ear-nibbling to commence.

Summed up: I have no time for this, i saw people enjoying it and thought they were gay.

I also think its a bit convinient that the first games on each of the daily lists are ones that will envoke a reaction. I guess if its the only new content on the site over the holidays you have to draw it out whilst keeping it interesting. I will probably get proved wrong tomorrow

Have to say rev, sometimes it's better not to say anything and just leave it be.

You have made yourself look the tit in most of these posts :p

It must be an unusual day.. and hell mustve finally frozen over..

but i'm actually AGREEING with stuart campbell.

I've never understood why gamers feel this need that reviewers should some how mother them and cuddle them and tell them everything about their choice in games/machine is right..

Its a bit sad really.

Now dont get me wrong, i'm not saying we the public shouldnt criticise the critics.. but to get upset because of something like this? Come on!

I'd hate to think what would happen if a reviewer stated that the (insert console here.. but most likely the ps3) was a complete waste of anyones money (unless they bought it to watch movies on).

"You have made yourself look the tit in most of these posts :p "


No he hasnt.. he's talking complete sense.. it's the morons who are getting upset with him and arguing against common sense who are looking like tits..

But then in the world of the internet forum.. it's always the majority who end up seeming correct - even when in a case like this they are wrong.


EDIT: And believe me.. i'm one of stuarts biggest critics!