Eurogamer's Top 50 Games of 2008: 30-21 Comments by Eurogamer staff

Oh, and for the record I used 'consensus' in reference to individuals who have voiced an opinion (i.e pro/amateur critics and users who voted in the EG public choice top 50)

ie a self-selecting sample.

MGS fans in "liking MGS game" shock!

This is the best comments thread ever.

I am on Rev's side because Remo said Eurogamer was 'unprofessional' because one of the reviewers made an innocuous comment about how gamers are a bit immature (really? gamers?!?) and because he called rev a 'cunt' in the 51st post which was a bit early in the day for such harsh language IMO.

Also saying eurogamer want to be 'elitist' is a bit feeble. Everyone that reads eurogamer regularly knows it's a bit smarter than most gaming sites and publishes thoughtful writing rather than just hype (apart from the previews). That's why we read it! I would take elitist in this context as a compliment.

This spat seems to still come down to people crying because their favourite game got a lower position than they felt it warranted. I did enjoy mgs3 though .. but MGS games just seem to bring out the devil in people. It's a game that seems to bring out a higher than normal degree of commitment in players (all those hours watching cut scenes).

In summary I think if you bitch about what a site says about your fav game and call the website / writers names then you are a dick.

I also admired the way you pretty much went straight to personal insults once people started calling you out for being an old washed up hack.

Actually, what you mean to say there is that I constructed a reasoned explanation (with numerous specific examples) for why it was idiotic of you to claim that gaming had "moved on" from "retro stuff" when it is in fact plainly moving back in that direction, which embarrassed you, and caused you to fall back on the traditional loser crybaby's whine about name-calling. Easy mistake to make, I won't hold it against you.

By Japanese puzzlers that is meant to be the extreme example. That is quite obvious to everyone but you.

I see. You confused us all a bit by using obscure Japanese puzzle games that scored 10/10 as your "example" when in fact you apparently didn't mean obscure Japanese puzzle games that scored 10/10 at all, but something completely different.

So, just to finally clear it up for us simple-minded idiots who don't quite understand - Slitherlink and Pic Pic worth 10/10, or not?

Wow, Eurogamer really has become a joke. I remember reading Oli's joke review back in June. It sure was one f*cking big joke.

And Halo 3 and GTA4 are 10s, right? Yeah, right...

'Easy mistake to make, I won't hold it against you.'

I don't give a shit if you hold it against me. You're irrelevant to me.

What does Pik Pik do that is so revolutionary? Is it a huge leap forward in what gaming can do as a medium? Will it appeal to the majority of players?

Why does a game need to revolutionary or a leap forward to deserve a ten? If anything it should be applauded for its honesty, it's a simple, accessible, addictive and enjoyable game. Yes it absolutely will appeal to the majority of games players simply because it strips things back to the basics.

I had my doubts, but I ordered it for the other half as a Christmas present...she's hardly dragged herself away from the thing since. After a day I decided to see what the fuss was about, 3hrs later I ordered my own copy (her Brother has nicked the other save slot on hers, he is also addicted), I've since bought a copy for my Mum...she won't leave the bloody thing alone.

It's quite clear why it got to a 10, having played it. It does nothing wrong, it's perfectly balanced, it's varied, it's absolutely massive (talking days, not hours) and it suits the DS perfectly. I would never claim it's the greatest game ever, but it's certainly without fault, and therefore fully deserving of full marks.

But then you are a complete retard as evidenced by your photo here:
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image...

Oh, and by the by - I might be a complete retard, but at least I can post a working link. Little tip - PHP links don't tend to work, because they're scripts, you useless arsewipe. This is the one you want:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3209/...

remo,

You're an odd fellow. You have, without any ambiguity, claimed two entirely opposite things. You said that my reviews of Japanese puzzle games were deliberately given inflated scores to gain attention for both the site, and for me, explaining that I wrote them to become the "journalistic elite". You later said you admire my reviews, and imply you don't disagree with them. They are obviously opposites, and one of them cannot be what you think.

What I suggest has happened here is you made your outlandish claim that EG was inflating scores, and then it got personal when the writer responsible for the only reviews that met your description (there was no "for example", you were quite specific) responded to you. Surprised, you decided to change your argument so much you stated the opposite, but attempted to reassert your original position by aiming it at unspecified "others" on the site. Sadly, there was no room for this move, since the only person to have given 10s to Japanese puzzle games this year was me.

Along the way you've thrown out some remarkably inaccurate statements, that you've quickly ignored once informed people have corrected you. And you've questioned my integrity personally, and that of everyone working on this site, with no evidence. That doesn't make you look very good.

More so, I'd like to suggest that comments like,

"And you insult Edge? Looking at some of your 'work', I am amazed you even have the nerve (or ability) to type their name.
Did they turn you down too old man?"

aren't exactly helping you. Stuart has certainly called you (someone he doesn't know) some rude names, and he perhaps should not have done that. Of course, he's only referring to your comments, since that's all he knows of you. You are sinking to a depth so much lower, and it's quite ugly. Your remarkably offensive behaviour does rather betray the fact that you realise you've messed up a bit. I think it would be slightly more graceful, and gracious, were you to apologise to me for slandering my professionalism, and to admit that you were talking complete nonsense with your previous claims. It's rather inelegant when you resort to misquoting yourself. Pretending you were talking "in general" when you very specifically referred to a specific genre and indeed specific reviews - well, it makes you look a bit silly. Of course, and please don't let this be the only thing you respond to, you could name some other specific examples of this general behaviour to evidence your claim.

So the 92-94% metacritic/game-rankings average is purely the result of fanboys loving it up?

Well, duh. After all, imagine the shrieking fuss that would be made by forum dolts like you if any publication gave the MGS4 review to a writer who didn't like MGS games.

spudsbuckley - Stuart went straight for the insults long before nasty little twerps like you started your peculiar attempts to undermine his career. Please get your facts straight.

I don't give a shit if you hold it against me. You're irrelevant to me.

Then we have something in common. Meanwhile, got anything to say about how your poorly-formed excuse for an argument's been destroyed, or are you just going to insult me, whine about being called names in return, and then run away to hide behind your comedy internet pseudonym? Because either's fine with me.

Eurogamer, you proved your worth! Good bye!

I knew you would know the right way to do it, because your website looks so nice and works so well.

Don't mention it, my pleasure.

Now, Slitherlink and Pic Pic - 10/10, or not?

'Meanwhile, got anything to say about how your poorly-formed excuse for an argument's been destroyed'

I hasn't really. Every post you make just goes to prove how out of touch you are.

Quick, insult me more. That seems to make you think you've 'won'.

So..... how much do you get unemployment benefit-wise nowadays?

I hasn't really.

Hasn't you?

It seems to me like you claimed that anyone who wrote chiefly about "retro"-style games was irrelevant, yet that type of game is clearly making an enormous comeback, most strikingly demonstrated by the success of the DS and Wii. It also seems to me that you came in bellowing about how I wasn't relevant, when I've never actually claimed for a second that I was. So what part of your argument is it that's holding up satisfactorily, in your view?

Christ mate, you've got an inflated sense of self importance.
I'm not even writing about you.

So you were referring to someone ELSE'S 10/10 reviews of obscure Japanese puzzle games?

Come on, love - Slitherlink and Pic Pic, 10/10 or not?

' It also seems to me that you came in bellowing about how I wasn't relevant, when I've never actually claimed for a second that I was.'

Of course you didn't say that. Who would?

I'm just interpreting your posts that way. Maybe i'm wrong but your not doing yourself any favours by insulting anyone who disagrees with you. You're coming off as a self important douche.

I think we're deep into that Internet only phenomenon of someone realising they've been caught out, but refusing to concede/apologise (tis the Internet after all, apologies don't exist) and so we enter a vicious cycle of ignoring what they've said previously, clinging on to the one small thing they said that may still have a point, and generally throwing childish insults around...all the while claiming to be grown up.

The best bit, despite the constantly moving goalposts set by Mr remowilliiamsuk, all of his previous comments are there in pixels for us all to see, which makes his amusing "comebacks" all the more entertaining.

The internet, god bless it.

"Is that so fucking hard to understand? "

Apparently. So, just to recap for us slowpokes - when you said

"You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it to prove you are the journalistic elite"

when the only person who'd given any obscure Japanese puzzlers 10/10 in EG was John Walker:

- you weren't talking about obscure Japanese puzzlers.

- you definitely weren't talking about any that had got 10/10 and didn't deserve it, because you have no opinion on the only two that have ever notched such a score, having not even played one of them.

- you definitely weren't talking about John Walker, because when he gives 10/10 to obscure Japanese puzzlers you think that's just peachy.

That's right, isn't it?

So, to recap: You haven't played it, you don't want to play it, and the inference is that anyone who (God forbid) DOES like it, is either an idiot, a paid shill, or a shrieking fanboy dolt. And your scientifically, ideologically-sound rationale for this is...

Congratulations. You're a hateful little bigot. You don't like the idea of something so your response is to shit all over it, sight unseen.

Wow. You got all that from me quietly pointing out that your definition of "consensus" was wrong, and expressing no opinion on a game I haven't played and have no interest in?

You might have some issues, dear.

remo, your goalposts move like a bouncy ball in a tumble dryer!

Come on, back down. Surely you're ashamed of the bit where you shouted "spastic"?

moving the goalposts? Don't think so somehow.
I like the fact I try to have a geniune subject to bring up for discussion, whereas Rev just wants to insult all that come along - and you think I am the idiot?

Well, being blessed with the ability to read (useful for viewing your previous comments in this very section, try it) I would say it's pretty clear that you've knotted yourself up into a horrible, horrible mess. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that, I would be the first to admit that Mr Campbell uses a sledgehammer approach, but his point that you've completely contradicted yourself on more than one occasion (and personally insulted the reviewer, along the way) is irrefutable.

I wasn't even aware that there were any other 'obscure japanese puzzlers' reviewed by Walker when I wrote about it in the Pik Pik thread.
It was a good example of an obscure genre and EG's bias towards them when they review games.

A "bias" which has only been shown in TWO reviews, both by the same person, neither of which you apparently disagree with.

I'd call that a very BAD example, personally. Wouldn't you?

It was a good example of an obscure genre and EG's bias towards them when they review games.

For the love of god, give up now. Pic Pic is accessible and simple in concept...think Tetris. It's not an obscure Japanese puzzler, it's the definition of casual gaming for the masses...it just so happens that it's had a very limited release, it would appear.

There are literally hundreds of god awful puzzle games that get released on the DS and elsewhere, it just so happens that Pic Pic hits the spot quite beautifully, the review reflects this and helps the likes of me find the good stuff amongst the rubbish.

To use your movie analogy, it would be Juno (i.e. accessible movie made on the cheap, but massive critical success) not some 'obscure Mongolian movie.

But what the hell is a person supposed to do when he is up against Campbell

Construct a reasoned argument, and not contradict themselves hilariously every other post?

I'm just interpreting your posts that way. Maybe i'm wrong but your not doing yourself any favours by insulting anyone who disagrees with you. You're coming off as a self important douche.

Only to stupid wankers, though. And I regard stupid wankers thinking of me that way as a ringing endorsement. So thanks!

remo, you love name calling. That's very clear. You went not only for name calling, but you also tried to make it very personal, using the scraps of information you had on someone. You've also relished in shouting some very distasteful remarks.

I do wish you would have the grace to apologise. Although when someone says things like "spastic" as an insult, I think perhaps my ridiculous optimism that someone can be reasonable should be abandoned. Can I suggest you volunteer some of your time to work with an organisation like SCOPE?

I never insulted the reviewer. Not once.

So saying someone gives shit games 10/10 just to be part of the "journalistic elite" isn't insulting them?

Man, it's so hard to keep up with you spinning around on the spot I'm getting dizzy.

yeah.. we all know that reviewers only give 10/10 scores in return for free holidays and $10k's worth of advertising space...

Poor ps3:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12305097...

'Only to stupid wankers, though. And I regard stupid wankers thinking of me that way as a ringing endorsement. So thanks!'

Oh right, now i get it :) You're playing a character.

Sorry to say, but the cranky games journalist bit was already done by Zero Punctuation.

Sorry to say, but the cranky games journalist bit was already done by Zero Punctuation.

Your grasp of chronology amuses me.

I don't even know why he has got involved. My beef has always been with EGs editorial policies

Maybe if we highlight it enough, it will 'click'...

"You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it to prove you are the journalistic elite"

The reviewer has made it quite clear that he consulted with the editor before his score was published. What more do you want? If every game had to be reviewed by the entire staff, we would have a couple of games reviewed per month (at most) and a slightly awkward average score which doesn't really reflect the text of the review, or what an individual might expect to gain from it.

Half the point is that you get to learn what makes a reviewer tick, and if you happen to be on that wavelength (or at least can identify with it) you can make a pretty decent judgement call on whether you think you might like it. For what its worth, 4 of my family members have now spent at least 5hrs each on Pic Pic, their review scores are as follows: 10, 10, 10, 10.

"I never insulted the reviewer. Not once.
I don't even know why he has got involved.

My beef has always been with EGs editorial policies"

remo, I'm very sorry, but you did insult me, and very directly. Editorial Policy isn't the name of someone who works for Eurogamer, in case that's the confusion. When I write for EG, I give a game the score I believe it deserves. You stated, without any room for confusion or ambiguity, that EG gives games inflated scores for nefarious reasons. You then went on to explain that this is done because a writer (not a website) wants to make himself appear elite. (Oddly you reiterated that moments ago, despite your current tack.) The only example of the reviews you meant were those written only by me. So yes, oddly enough I assume I am relevant to the discussion. And again, I don't think you thought the writer or writers you were slandering would show up.

You've also previously said that you believe it incorrect for writers to give scores in isolation, but they should rather be based on an editorial consensus. You rather peculiarly claimed this was how scores are given in print magazines. Now you are saying the problem with games getting 10 is caused by editorial policy. I'm very confused about how you think scores should be given.

But once and for all, you need to know: when you say that writers are giving deceitful scores to garner personal acclaim or attention, you are insulting writers. So far you have not provided an example of such a game, other than the one you are now claiming to have no problem with (despite being so very, very specific - and it's PiC PiC for heaven's sake), so until you do it will remain an insult to everyone on EG. Amongst which I am included.

Ok mr botherer:

"when you say that writers are giving deceitful scores to garner personal acclaim or attention, you are insulting writers. So far you have not provided an example of such a game,"


You know as well as i do how game review sites work.. However surely it's a bit hypocritical for someone (such as yourself) to critique peoples hard work (i.e. the games which are made) but not expect criticism back?

But you ask for a good example of a game which got an undeserving score on this site? Hmmm.. well there was a certain soccer game released around 2 years ago.. Which was severly flawed.. and the people who run this site seem to be really good friends with the bloke who made it.. and it got a 9/10 score... Hmmmm.. Cant for the life of me think of the name of it though.. perhaps mr campbell might be able to shed some light *wink*

MGS fans in "liking MGS game" shock!

In my opinion it really IS something. First of all, MGS series, pretty much like Final Fantasy, tends to extremely divide its own apologists' opinions when it comes to judge particular entrances. Perhaps the most passionate antagonists of MGS:X are the most zealous apologists of MGS:Y. Navertheless, every single entrance ends up getting excellent average score (significantly higher than "average", that is). In case of, say, Tomb Rider, or Crash Bandicoot, or Sonic there's no such regularity (and we're discussing pretty worn-out franchise here). There's always discussion: "yes, you have nothing to do during very long cut-scenes, but they are top class and yes, you can pretend you'e a cardboard box, but you're by no means forced to do so und so weiter, und so weiter". Such discussion usually leads to conclusion that MGS, whilst doing so many things better than almost any other game, can be considered utterly unplayable at the same time by some people, but still the majority of people claiming that they finished the game agrees that there's plenty to enjoy playing MGS. Such agreement may not be a consensus in the lexical meaning of the word, but isn't trivial either. Not every sequel of succesfull game gets it.

smelly - I absolutely agree with you - reviews require and deserve criticism. If there are any mistakes in my work, or problems with my prose, I will gladly hear them (and naturally feel disgruntled about it too). I'd suggest that saying I am a liar and give deceitful scores for personal acclaim doesn't really count as criticism of the review, but rather a slanderous attack on my integrity.

I am interested to hear if remo has any examples of relatively obscure games receiving what he believes to be inflated scores purely for the purpose of the writer achieving "journalistic elite" status. I'm fairly certain he doesn't have any, beyond the one he's since abandoned, or we'd have heard them by now.

Can't a person voice an opinion?

Yes, clearly they can. It appears they an also completely reverse that opinion, while claiming not to have reversed it at all, repeat completely contradictory things several times, totally ignore numerous unbiased third parties telling them they look stupid, refuse to say what their actual position is on anything (possibly because they no longer know what it is) and generally make a quite spectacular arse out of themselves, to the general amusement of all. That's why comments threads exist.

On the whole, love, it probably would have been better if you'd put me on your ignore list when you claimed to have done. Maybe you should try it now, before you actually die of embarrassment, or of strangling yourself to death on one of the many twisted, mangled knots in your argument.

@remowilliamsuk:

LOL! Loving it..

Reading this thread was great fun.. and now you're doing the "waah.. it's not fair, im not playing any more.. i'm running away and taking my ball with me *sulk*" routine..

Come on man.. Get a set of balls...

"am interested to hear if remo has any examples of relatively obscure games receiving what he believes to be inflated scores purely for the purpose of the writer achieving "journalistic elite" status. I'm fairly certain he doesn't have any, beyond the one he's since abandoned, or we'd have heard them by now."


How about high review scores in return for advertising space? Or because you're mates with the bloke that worked on it? Do they count?

But you ask for a good example of a game which got an undeserving score on this site? Hmmm.. well there was a certain soccer game released around 2 years ago..

Sensible Soccer is hardly an "obscure Japanese puzzler" being marked highly just to be contrary. It's one of the most popular and deeply-loved videogaming brands of all time.

yeah.. but you would say that...

EDIT: But yeah.. i know it's not an example of a Japanese puzzle game, yadda yadda.. just an example of the scores sometimes being "out of whack"

.. and i believe you said so yourself on your own blog at the time too..

Everyone on here thinks you are a total joke.

Interesting definition of "everyone", there. You must have an awful LOT of people on ignore.

:D

yeah.. but you would say that...

And you'd disagree?

We're well on the way to 1000! Lets make it happen!

Eurogamer - the worst reviews!

>And you'd disagree?

Of course not! :-)

I agree with you on every account so far... (which is unusual for me when you start arguing)

.. see my edit above :-)

you are a total joke.
If they think I am then so what? Its just a internet psuedonym and I can change it tomorrow if I want.

So let's get this straight... if people have read your posts and decided from them that you're a complete cretin, you'll change your name and pretend to be someone else who ISN'T a complete cretin? (Until you post the same opinions again, and everyone thinks that person is a complete cretin too, of course.)

Oh no! You win!

remo, I wonder why you're giving up on me? I've been quite remarkably polite to you, despite your scurrilous comments and insinuations. Come on, just admit you made some silly remarks that you can't substantiate, and everyone will hug and we'll all be friends forever.

@botherer.. yeah.. but you do seem to want to slag the wii off in ever review you do for it..

*ducks for cover* ;-)