Eurogamer's Top 50 Games of 2008: 30-21 Comments by Eurogamer staff

Wait. You mean people actually like Marmite?

I did think the 8/10 review was spot on, I enjoyed MSG4 but skipped through the cutscenes on second and third go and realised the game was left...with something ripped out especially in the middle act even then not prepared to sit through the same cut scenes over and over.

Perhaps its a question of where a crowd anticipated and salivating to watch The Frank Miller & Zack Synder's 'Watchmen' but a proportion of the crowd doesnt mind going back to cinema for X times to watch the film again and again? Others the more sensible lots knowing that the magic is mostly gone except for the 'most memorable moments' which is still preserved even after the first time you have seen the film? But to watch the whole lot of the 'film'?

People who really felt EG got up their noses and that the site is so biased and 'unprofessional' go on, go over to IGN, Gamespot, 1UP or the other sites you feels more suited to you. Perhaps EG is not for the sensitive types and needs to carry a health warning!

@vorlon-man

"Oh but you do"

Oh dear, a nobody on the internet is now dictating my opinion? I'd suggest leaving the amateur psychology alone. It stinks of pretention.


" you went on to slate the game using generalisations."

Because I personally think it's utter shit. My opinion does not represent the entire gaming community, although I am in the majority on this point.

Are you beginning to see how this whole opinion and general consensus dynamic works?


The bit about shit PS3 software performance is plain ol' fact though. You can take that to the bank. ;)

General consensus ftw!!! It's better to feel your opinion's been validated by the gaming populace at large, innit?

What's that? EG isn't even a major chunk of the population? Oh, you kidder, you.

You're proably right Vorlon-man, its just that MGS seems more marmite-y than most.

Maybe due to the Parkin factor, namely "Kojima's series primarily appeals to immature gamers." ;-P

/Swivels in chair laughing and paves the way for another 1820 comments

+1 GamesConnoisseur

As much as I enjoyed MGS4 I'd have to wait a year at least to play it again and sit through the cutscenes. I'm happy with my first pass and remember what I enjoyed.

Far too many people getting over excited about the annual EG list. However, it just wouldn't be Xmas without the EG annual list comments shenanigans.

Rev. Stuart Campbell: +10
remowilliamsuk: -10

I don't feel the need to explain my scoring policy so I'm evil.

Actually I'm pretty sure its demonstrable that the consensus view of MGS4 is that its extremely positive

Consensus of who, though? The people who bought it? In statistics, they call that a self-selecting sample and discount the results as unrepresentative of the wider demographic. By any numerical measure, the vast majority of gamers didn't want MGS4 and didn't buy it. A large chunk of even those who did buy it didn't like it. It's widely available for £20 nowadays on the High Street, but the shelves still groan with unsold preowned copies (at least 20 in my fairly small local Gamestation). There's your consensus.

MGS 4 is 30. ?!

I'm off from EG!

on balance, 30th seems a bit low, but not ridiculous. Definitely a slick and epic undertaking, which in itself demands respect regardless of your metric for evaluating the hobby. I didn't buy it or fancy it at all, but pretending that it's not a major title of 2008 is bordering on holocaust denial.

Brilliant comments thread, just spent 10 minutes reading it (having no agenda, I don't own a 360 or PS3 or have ever played MGS) and as always, it was a cracking read. The irony of an 'immature' comment and then nearly 200 hate filled replies wasn't lost on me.

For the record, I've now suggested Pic Pic to 4 people, and they are all horribly addicted to it. In the past few years only Zoo Keeper has come close to appealing to almost everyone I have suggested play it. A 10/10 could not be more deserved, simply because it's basically faultless. It's as far from an obscure title as it's possible to be, if anything it's more 'casual' than the likes of Wii Sports or Wii Fit.

@retibra

Yes that's a nice wall of text which *yawn* I'm sure someone will summon the energy to *yawn* read through at some point....


The Rev. summed it up nicely, but there is another element to the cult perception of MGS: It's got a small but rabid fanbase. Now take something like Halo. It's got a HUGE rabid fanbase. That makes it a prime target for all those who want to act 'cool' and 'hate whats popular'. These people will go out of their way to downrate and discredit the game because they are petty and smallminded.

MGS doesnt attract that kind of mindless hate because it's a dull, niche product. No-one cares.

It's got a HUGE rabid fanbase. That makes it a prime target for all those who want to act 'cool' and 'hate whats popular'. These people will go out of their way to downrate and discredit the game because they are petty and smallminded.

I think it's also partly because people will react with incredulity to something that has a lot of hype but that they don't get. Just because you might then react to their reaction with defensive paranoia doesn't change the fact that no game is universally enjoyed, and if you choose to ram it down peoples throats then you should expect some to vomit it back up.

Farticus: maybe, just maybe, the Halo detractors simply have a differing opinion to yourself, much as you have a differing opinion to the MGS lovers?

Personally I don't quite 'get' the Halo loveathon that has endured since the original emerged from the vaults of Bungie. The first was OK, though admittedly I was a devout PC gamer at the time having not touched a console since the Mega Drive. The second I didn't play and thus couldn't comment, as it only came out on PC for Windows Vista (perhaps that was the supreme version of the franchise and I missed out), while the third... adequate fun for a while, but otherwise meh.

Ever since playing the first instalment I've viewed the series as something worth picking up when the price comes down, but not something worth queueing outside of GAME at midnight for. And yet, bizarrely enough, people disagree with me enough to queue outside of GAME at midnight for it.

I could go to the extreme of calling you wrong, or calling you a fanboy, or calling you 'immature' even, but I'm not going to. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

So has anyone started a poll on what Wii shovelware/flash game/XBLA-basically-a-fancy-flash game/indie game is going to be number one?

I vote Braid.

The holy cow is kicked again.

"Kristan Reed: Lovely game world, solid gameplay, soulless characters. Coming to this after Fallout 3 was a massive comedown, but I'm determined to come back to it."

uh-oh. i've got this on my shelf waiting for me to finish fallout 3...

As to the "self-selecting sample" argument, basically if you haven't played the game your opinion is null and void anyway. Forming an opinion without playing the thing says more about the observer than the object, sorry.

I haven't formed an opinion. I haven't made any comments about MGS4 because I haven't played it because I'd rather saw my own legs off at the knees. The point is that your assertion about "consensus" is entirely fallacious, because even among AAA-starved PS3 owners, around 80% haven't bought MGS4. One has to presume that's because they don't want it, since it's so widely available at a low price. The fact is, the vast majority of gamers - even the vast majority of PS3 owners - either actively dislike the game or don't give a crap about it. The people who like it enough to buy it are a small minority, and as such don't get to be a "consensus" of anything.

@merk and Farzle

My point was that MGS doesnt attract the hate because it's niche, low profile. Halo is massivley more successful than MGS and has a considerably larger fanbase but is perceived as lower quality because the opposition is much more vocal.

I'm using Halo as an example and really dont want to get into a discussion about the game's merits.

well, you could argue that give how starved the PS3 was, that it might have more of a begrudging sample base than it might have otherwise had, especially given your own evidence of the 20+ used copies sitting on the shelves, but given how little any of this matters, I've already typed more words about it than my carefactor threshold demands.

"I haven't made any comments about MGS4 because I haven't played it because I'd rather saw my own legs off at the knees."

That would be a comment, dickhead.

@fart

were you born yesterday? MGS was a huge Playstation franchise when Halo was still an Apple Mac project.

Kids these days, /smh

So, MGS4 scored low down the EG rankings because most EG commentators thought it was shit.

It seems the game buying public concurred, so it remains on store shelves, abundant, cheap and unloved.

So, if we're all in agreement, whence the controversy?

@merkdot

MGS: 20m sales over 20-odd games, highest sale 5.59m (MGS 1)

Halo: 24m sales over 3 games, highest sales 8.8m (Halo 3)

Learn to get your facts straight before mouthing off, it just makes you look stupid.

That would be a comment, dickhead.

A comment about the previous MGS games, though, not MGS4.

Um, pooface.

The Revd:

If you'd rather saw your own legs off than play previous MGS games, you'd probably want to have your nuts chewed off by a Laplander rather than play MGS4.

It does everything hateful that all MGSx did, but more willfully and determinedly than the rest of the Kojima ludicrous incomprehensathons put together.

Since we're namecalling, I got a minge-septum for anyone who wants it...

Going in 5... 4... 3...

There's an unhealthy amount of strawmanning in a lot of these arguments. I can't believe I've actually sat and read them all.

Surely if you'd rather saw your knees off then you have formed an opinion.

dont give up the day job

Ooohhhh, THAT Stuart Campbell.

Yeah, games and the games industry in general has moved on and you haven't. Sorry, buddy.

Stick to the retro stuff.

Where's 20-11?

Farticus

"My point was that MGS doesnt attract the hate because it's niche, low profile. Halo is massivley more successful than MGS and has a considerably larger fanbase but is perceived as lower quality because the opposition is much more vocal.

I'm using Halo as an example and really dont want to get into a discussion about the game's merits."

&

"MGS: 20m sales over 20-odd games, highest sale 5.59m (MGS 1)

Halo: 24m sales over 3 games, highest sales 8.8m (Halo 3)

Learn to get your facts straight before mouthing off, it just makes you look stupid."

So the difference between a niche series and a commercially successful one comes down to 4m in sales? Righto.

And for my part, I've never played the previous MGS games and still thoroughly enjoyed part 4.

I have never played MGS4 but it seems to attract all the retards.

I for one would just like to state how completely amazing Amiga Power was. Rich Pelley's intros to the cheats section were the funniest little pieces of nonsense this side of Oink!, which is high praise indeed. I still have a stack back at my mum and dads house because I know one day I'm going to NEED to go back and re-read the Apidya review.

Who the F*ck is Stuart Campbell? Is he some kind of gaming celeb?

Hey, if anyone has read this far and is in America, please note that you can download Trials 2 from Steam for only $2.49 until January 2nd. Perhaps there is a similar deal in other parts of the world - I don't know - but this is a deal that shouldn't be missed.

Have to agree that there have been a lot of terrible comments.

Personally MGS4 was certainly my GOTY, definitely the game I most enjoyed playing this year. But I still found it highly amusing the huge fanboy backlash against eurogamer after the 8/10 review, and now after the quite low placement of 30 in the staff top 50. I disagree with both the score and the placement, but why should I care that much? Just because some at eurogamer and others have a different opinion it doesn’t affect me and my enjoyment of the game, even if criticisms include quite stupid “immature” comments.

On the other side however there seems to be an even more obnoxious and just as obsessive group who seek every opportunity to voice their intense dislike for MGS. Sure I can understand people hating such a marmite game, but is it really necessary for some to spend such a lot of time making numerous comments about a game you hate? There are a lot of games I really don’t like, but I don’t feel the need to spend my time presenting that opinion in comments repeatedly.

Overall people generally need to lighten up about the whole thing, as it’s getting quite ridiculous.

lmao i have to agree with the mgs fans. Why the f*** is it only 30?

Since when is a game expected to appeal to 100% of its user-base? Or to satisfy 100% of its purchasers? What an utterly ridiculous assertion to make!

I'm not the one making assertions about "consensus", love.

The majority of gamers aren't interested in MGS4.

The majority of PS3 owners aren't interested in MGS4.

There's no evidence to show that even the majority of people who WERE interested enough in MGS4 to pay for it with their own money actually enjoyed it, though the speed with which it fell out of the charts and the anecdotal evidence of the easy availability of copies for £20 so soon after release suggest that it hasn't been received all that well after the initial outpouring of pent-up fanboy spunk.

None of this proves it's a good or bad game. Personally I have no opinion on that, though I have a strong suspicion. What it proves is that making assertions about there being a consensus saying it's great is arrant drivel. Perhaps you ought to go and look up what "consensus" means.

Yeah, games and the games industry in general has moved on and you haven't. Sorry, buddy.

Hmm, you perhaps ought to take a look at the sales figures for the Wii and DS compared to the 360, PS3 and PSP.

@farticus

5.59million is niche? and a difference of 3 million is huge?

considering this is Konami vs. Microsoft, you're really pulling shit out of your ass now :)

lol, time to go and study typical sales of games.

oh, and VGCharts isn't a good place to pull "facts" from anyway :)

"A comment about the previous MGS games, though, not MGS4."

Look at what you wrote again. Pay special attention to the part where you mention MGS4. Then get back to clicking on your own awful website to try and build up your hits.

'Hmm, you perhaps ought to take a look at the sales figures for the Wii and DS compared to the 360, PS3 and PSP.'

What's that got to do with you being irrelevant now?

Who the F*ck is Stuart Campbell? Is he some kind of gaming celeb?

^^^^
This.

:)

I haven't at any point claimed to be "relevant", dearie. I'm just another comments thread spod. But man, you really couldn't have picked a more fuckwitted time to be claiming that the games industry has "moved on" from "retro stuff"(*). Games this generation are the most "retro" they've been for about 20 years, with the accessible, largely 2D catalogue of the DS and Wii generating sales that dwarf those of the "modern" formats. (Who are themselves, of course, courting the "retro" crowd with XBLA and PSN, showcasing hugely successful and popular games like Geometry Wars 2 and Super Stardust.) EG has given 10/10s this year to games like Bangai-o Spirits, Braid and Pic Pic, which are massively "retro".

* (The use of "retro" to refer condescendingly to simple, accessible games does, obviously, mark you as a grade-A pompous Edge-reading fuckrag, but I might as well speak to you in language you understand to keep things simple.)

There is no contradiction in my post.

Of course there is, you feeble-witted tool.

You claimed you admired John's honesty and enthusiasm in giving Slitherlink and Pic Pic 10/10.

You then attacked EG for giving "obscure Japanese puzzle games" 10/10 marks they didn't deserve, just for the sake of being different and "elite".

Those two statements can't possibly both be true, since the ONLY writer on EG who's given obscure Japanese puzzle games 10/10 is John Walker, with Slitherlink and Pic Pic. So do you admire his honesty, or is he dishonestly inflating their scores beyond what they deserve just for the sake of being different?

Which is it, you hopelessly thick fucking twat?

Oh dear. Are you so desperate now that you've resorted to denying the very words you said?

"You love to review all the obscure Japanese puzzlers and give them 10/10 when they don't deserve it to prove you are the journalistic elite "

Specifically puzzlers. Specifically 10/10. No mention of "for example".

Which games do you mean, if not Slitherlink and Pic Pic? Do enlighten us.

Gosh there sure are some clever insults in this thread!

No wonder you're a free-lancer Stuart. No magazine or website would want a clown like you as a staff-writer. You probabaly end up being given work because the janitor or the tea-boy are too busy to write a review or an article so they're forced call you up.

I also admired the way you pretty much went straight to personal insults once people started calling you out for being an old washed up hack.