Euro Super Paper Mario bugged News

To think on any other platform they could just release a patch. Guess without a hard drive that isn't entirely viable.

so not only do we have to wait months to get the game, but the game comes with additional bugs and/or unintentional offensive language which causes it to be recalled

good job nintendo

Good old Nintendo, lowering themselves to the standards of Sony and Microsoft, who at least have the excuse that their hardware is complex and whom can fix it with a patch, not ideal but it's easier than returning the game!

A bit more play testing wouldn't go amiss, Nintendo. There really is no excuse for missing this bug. I mean why does a few lines of dialogue crash the game anyway? :|

Phew, for a second I thought this was another story of Mario insulting the disabled.

God I hate hate Mario. During the Summer flooding, I was constantly hearing about 'Bowser' being out on the street, giving people water and generally helping. But where was Mario? Nowhere! And he's a plumber. Disgusting.

@Lebowski

Haha, very good :)

the most sucky thing about this is that we got this 8 months after the rest of the world, and it's STILL got the same crashes in it!

Very poor that this one somehow got introduced during that seemingly interminable wait between the US and Euro versions. I might be tempted by the replacement disk as long as I don't have to send the copy I've waited about 8 months for off and wait for a 28 day turnaround or something ridiculous...

"Buy a 360, world wide release dates for most games, great online with patches released whenever needed, better games.:

Sorry to rant but......

Fuck off. seriously. Too many threads these days have users telling people to buy a god damn 360. i have a fucking 360 and a Wii, is it too hard to comprehend not everyone gives a damn about some system war bullshit and enjoy more than one system? why the hell do people feel the need to educate people on what they should buy and why? the system obviously isnt suited to everybodies tastes so why generally recommend it on the internet to a massively wide spectrum of people?

chicknstu - "the most sucky thing about this is that we got this 8 months after the rest of the world, and it's STILL got the same crashes in it!"

I'm sure the game was only released in the US in July so that's not quite 8 months... ;)

Buy a 360, world wide release dates for most games, great online with patches released whenever needed, better games.

And MS don't hate you as much as Nintendo of Europe.

The good thing about the 360 is the games don't need bugs for the console to keep freezing. I hate owning an Xbox 360 console as it makes me feel like a total wanker; even though I’m not like the rest of the Xbox fanboys.

@Santino

Because their brains have one setting: Fanboy.

@ "Buy a 360, world wide release dates for most games, great online with patches released whenever needed, better games."

Wow, I think I've just seen the light. Where's my switch card? I'm going straight down to Gamestation to buy a 36zzzzz....

Troll.

"I might be tempted by the replacement disk as long as I don't have to send the copy I've waited about 8 months for off and wait for a 28 day turnaround or something ridiculous... "

Well at least they'll return you something with the problem actualy being fixed... ;)

But of course this shouldn't have happened.

@Les - No, it shouldn't but this kind of thing happens all the time on the 360 but no-one complains because they can be patched. Take EA's Tiger Woods 08 for example, that had a bug in it that froze the game on one of the Tiger Challenges but it was quickly fixed thankfully and most people won't even be aware of it.

The good thing about the 360 is the games don't need bugs for the console to keep freezing. I hate owning an Xbox 360 console as it makes me feel like a total wanker; even though I’m not like the rest of the Xbox fanboys.

You and me both. There is a point though in what NickyD_o writes, for once Nintendo could learn from MS, releasing world-wide or within a week of other territories sure is nice. To me the whole translation-argument for delays just doesn't hold up, sure translation takes time, but why not just shelf the game until translation is done and release it everywhere simultaneously. I haven't checked the language options for 360 games, but surely some of them have support for German\French\Spanish, etc. and they still seem to be able to release world-wide at the same time. I mean, hearing about a game for 1-2 years and then reading previews and review for another 3-9 months before the game is finally available in Europe really taxes one's patience. Even though I'm thoroughly enjoying SPM, I almost didn't get it because I was growing sick of hearing about it (guess I myself am partially to blame for keeping tabs on it, but still).

"but why not just shelf the game until translation is done and release it everywhere simultaneously."

Because that costs money: revenue now is better than revenue in the future (time value of money and all). There's a reason Nintendo is the most profitable (this gen the only) player in the video game industry...

Oh for fucks sake, please shut up Nicky.

I bought a 360 on the advice of people like you. Within 5 days it had broken. MS took 6 weeks to return it to me, and lied constantly on the phone, after being on hold for over 50 minutes each time. They assured me it would be sent to my new house (I had recently moved house), but instead sent it back to my old place, taking yet more hassle.

I have never had a single problem with any of the Nintendo consoles I have ever owned, many of which were used every week for years.

Perhaps MS could learn from this record?! NO LOL WHY SHOULD THEY NINTENDO IS FOR KIDS LOL WII IS GIMMICK.

Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland still makes up for it.

oh and btw nicky, may I recommend you a "PC". Even MORE games than the 360, easily acquired patches and a wider selection of mods, better graphics, devs with over a decades worth of experience in online gaming and all for only around 100 quid more than the elite!

It even does stuff other than games! try it one day! lol!

or just do as Santino suggests, and rather than try and incite a war, leave people to their own affairs and play some games instead of trolling for once

>>@ "Buy a 360, world wide release dates for most games, great online with patches released whenever needed, better games."
>Wow, I think I've just seen the light. Where's my switch card



Is it a flashing red light?

(maybe in the shape of a ring?)

Maybe the game got sick from waiting a year in the freezer.

To think on any other platform they could just release a patch. Guess without a hard drive that isn't entirely viable.

Or it could give companies more incentive to release proper games without the need for patches. Sure Paper Mario has this bug, but they're replacing people's copies the same way you'd expect any company to replace a faulty product. So that makes what, maybe 3 games in total recently that have needed recalls/replacements on the Nintendo consoles? And now give me a number for all the 360 games that have been patched.

(and not to mention the console)

So, how long should I wait before buying this to be guaranteed an unbugged version off the shelf? I've already waited 3 years or however long ago the US release date was...

/goes off to read the review

"(and not to mention the console)"

Easy: 0. If you only count actually fixing the problem rather than the symptom... ;)

We wont mention Sony then with their higher prices for Europe, lack of backwards compatibility etc, and Microsoft not doing enough testing on their console to make sure it doesn't overheat. All the companies are out there to make money, they do not HATE anyone because we are the people who give them the money

If it's not crappy 50hz black bordered VC games it's release dates six months after the rest of the world.

Don't buy them then. It's obvious you're not anyway and no one is going to force you to.

Take your fanboy glasses off and see that Microsoft and Sony are not sinless either.

weirdly, i've never had any problem with my VC games and they all run at full screen. what am I missing?

p.s. im not denying it happens, unlike the 2 360 owners who are still on their first console and call everyone on their second or third sony fanboys. I'm just asking what the deal is.

This is what you get when they rush PAL release.

"If it's not crappy 50hz black bordered VC games it's release dates six months after the rest of the world"


GOD!! Fucking fanboys everwhere isnt there?

Right.. how the fuck do you think microsoft does "worldwide" releases? The US version of a game would be ready 3 months ago, while the european one goes into translation.. then they all get released together.

So then the americans (or japanese) are waiting 3 or 6 months longer than they need to be for the game to be released.

So does that mean microsoft hates america? Just because it holds off on releasing games until everyone can get it at the same time to stop the fucking whining british from moaning (yet again)?

Yet again, i have to explain simple business economics to the kids on this forum for why microsoft (with all it's money) can do that, but why other companies will release versions when they're ready for each territory to keep the money coming in.


As for the 50hz borders.. I was making games back then.. Has it never dawned on you WHY they did that? A 2d game would need extra background art to fill in the extra higher resolutions, etc. That required even more work to get the european version out the door. Which would mean the european version would be even later.

So they released the EXACT same version as the ntsc version (with borders) so that europeans WOULDNT have to wait so long.. Think about it numb nuts - they were doing whining gamers like YOU a favour!

Also think that the PAL versions of the games had borders.. boo fucking hoo.. they still were the EXACT same game as the ntsc versions - so you werent seeing any more or any less.. see? By drawing more you could spoil a game which has been designed to run at a set resolution (showing things which should be hidden, etc).

If they'd had filled in that space (which they did occasionally), that wouldve meant european gamers were getting MORE on screen at once..

Yeah.. REALLY hate europe dont they?

Before you open your mouth to whine in future, i suggest you do a little research .. maybe think about why things happen.. before you post and make yourself look like a tard.

I'll post this again as i was so proud of the joke:

>>@ "Buy a 360, world wide release dates for most games, great online with patches released whenever needed, better games."
>Wow, I think I've just seen the light. Where's my switch card



Is it a flashing red light?

(maybe in the shape of a ring?)

"the system obviously isnt suited to everybodies tastes so why generally recommend it on the internet to a massively wide spectrum of people?"

Spectrum? Pah. C64 all the way!

Do Nintendo still have their "Seal of Quality" on their products anymore?

Their sorting it out, which is great but after the stupid wait for it and it to be bugged when it finally launches here, i'm extremely dissapointed.

Get your act together NOE.

To me recollection this is the only nintendo game i can ever remember with a bug in it which needed fixing (yes 2 other games have been pulled recently, but that's more translator error than bugs).

.. How many 360 game patches have you downloaded? After you waited for their release too! (just because you didnt see that it was ready for the us before you got it in europe, doesnt mean it wasnt, and doesnt mean you didnt have to wait for it after it was finished).

Yeah.. sort it out microsoft..

Thanks god I'm french! :D

Am annoyed about bug, will wait to buy this until a non-bug copy comes out. As for the console 'war', I don't subsribe to any camp, and am happy with my PS3, Wii and 360. Well, except for the fact I'm on my FOURTH 360 (soon to be 5th as this one is making bad noises and freezing) and second 360 hard-drive.

"Am annoyed about bug, will wait to buy this until a non-bug copy comes out"

Why not just not do the thing which causes the bug?

"p.s. im not denying it happens, unlike the 2 360 owners who are still on their first console and call everyone on their second or third sony fanboys. I'm just asking what the deal is."

They're STILL on their first console???

Cant have had it very long (what with the red rings.. )

@Katsumoto: LONG REPLY HOPE IT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION?

"weirdly, i've never had any problem with my VC games and they all run at full screen. what am I missing? "

It dates back to 2d days. NTSC is a lower resolution than PAL. SOME games made for ntsc consoles which were 2d came out in PAL regions with the extra pixels (caused by a higher resolution television) as a black border.

This was required because - lets just say you made a platform game, with a secret collectable hidden just off the top of the screen.. You dont want to spoil said game by drawing the game in the higher resolution and therefore drawing more of the play area and subsequently give away the hidden stuff (for example) and spoil the game.

Added to which, obviously, drawing more in higher definition requires more processing, which could knacker frame rates (ask a 360 owner for example of hi-def games running at 30fps when the previous versions ran fine at 60fps on the original xbox).

Nowadays forumites seem to prefer higher def games over framerates. But back then framerates were more important than anything (gameplay being prefered over graphics). So games companies preferred the border option to give you the EXACT same gameplay experience and framerates (okay this gets a little more complex thanks to 50hz/60hz.. but the comment was about borders).

As a side note the 50/60hz thing didnt make much of a difference if the games were re-coded to have their timing correct. The problem most users saw at 50hz with crappy framerates was caused by the fact the console was being pushed more by drawing almost 1/3rd more each frame

But this only effected a small minority of games.

Now, In theory nintendo could make all the games run in PAL 60 (which wasn't available back then) instead of running in ntsc resolution at a higher pal 50 resolution.. they could run in PAL 60 (which in effect makes your console the same resolution as the ntsc counterparts)

So then you get to see the game full screen, however you dont see any more or any less - as you're only running the game at a lower resolution. In fact you may be suprised to see how pixelated mario or sonic look at ntsc resolutions.

However, as pal games were designed to run at 50hz (some being completely re-written to cope with that - thus the long delays of the time between ntsc and pal versions), running them at pal 60 would require potentially breaking the game. And they cant just release the ntsc versions (as then what about the poor non-english speaking people?)

For example most mario games were completely re-written for the pal market so that they levels were "re-scaled" to fit the higher resolution without breaking the game.

Now they could obviously go in and re-write every single game.. But then they wouldnt be able to get the VC games out quick enough.

Hope that answers your question?

Hey, EG, why not an editorial about Super Mario Galaxy's cover art? ;)

It does, very comprehensively! Thanks!

>why not an editorial about Super Mario Galaxy's cover art?

Did you know that mario was *shock* voiced by a gay guy too?

Are you still a school boy who thinks that the word "gay" is a nasty insult and derogatory?

What planet is smelly from?

@smelly
"... So games companies preferred the border option to give you the EXACT same gameplay experience and framerates (okay this gets a little more complex thanks to 50hz/60hz.. but the comment was about borders)."

Excuse me, but what I remember from Black Border Era is that virtually every black bordered PAL game of the time, thanks to sloppy porting and the 60Hz to 50Hz drop, played like a black bordered slow motion version of the NTSC version. Also, because of the different aspect ratio, PAL video game characters often looked like they needed a diet. A bit like 4:3 aspect ratio games being stretched all over 16:9 widescreens today.

So these EXACT same gameplay experience and framerates kicked in where precisely?

"As a side note the 50/60hz thing didnt make much of a difference if the games were re-coded to have their timing correct. The problem most users saw at 50hz with crappy framerates was caused by the fact the console was being pushed more by drawing almost 1/3rd more each frame"

But don't the black bordered PAL games have the same resolution output as their full screened NTSC brethren? There are black scanlines above and below the screens, but those are easily skipped with negligeable processing costs since nothing has to be rendered in those areas. The crappy framerates can't be attributed to extra renderwork.

Here's the way I see it:

If X = time needed to finish NTSC original
Then Y = 60Hz * X / 50Hz = 6X/5 = time needed to finish black bordered, slow motion PAL counterpart

(and conversely, X = 5Y/6)

Capcom uses this formula in PAL Resident Evil 2 (PSX), for example, to convert the PAL result time into an equivalent NTSC result time. For example, if you'd need Y = 90 minutes to finish that game in realtime, then you'd get a result time of X = 75 minutes on the result screen. Resident Evil PSX didn't have this feature, and as a result, players of the PAL version are unable to beat the world speed record which was done using a NTSC version.

Having played both PAL and NTSC versions of the same game at the time, and this for several games, I can state with confidence that black bordered games tend to offer a very DIFFERENT experience and frame rate than the NTSC versions they originated from.

And even PAL 60Hz can be different from NTSC 60Hz. Just ask the European Metroid Prime speed runners about it, and they will tell you that identical runs (as in the exact same route was followed in each run) yields different results - which cannot be explained by minor playing errors.

>And even PAL 60Hz can be different from NTSC 60Hz.

.. Because the timings for a pal game are set up for 50hz.

"But don't the black bordered PAL games have the same resolution output as their full screened NTSC brethren?"

yes

"There are black scanlines above and below the screens, but those are easily skipped with negligeable processing costs since nothing has to be rendered in those areas. "

If you read what i said, the slowdown is accounted for when the black borders arent used.


Oh i cant be arsed.

@smelly
"Oh i cant be arsed."

Probably because there's no denying the fact that in most cases, PAL 50Hz is not EXACTLY the same experience and framerates than NTSC 60Hz.

Nice try though.

Did i ever deny that?

He asked what the problems were, and i explained it.

I used to program games during that era.. i know what im talking about, and i know what the problems were and the ways we went around things.

It worked the other way around too. Sometimes games were designed to run at full screen pal at 50hz.. then when we tried to run them in ntsc, we didnt have enough framerate to run at 60hz, so we had to drop to 30hz.

Amazingly though, even with BIG differences like that americans didnt notice/complain as much as british people do for next to no noticeable difference half the time (unless you anal retentively compare each side by side)

Luckily it's not a game breaking bug, it can't mess up your save (fortunately it just crashes) and you're about 5minutes from the last save box when it happens.

Black borders?

It's 2007. What the hell are we bleeting on about 1992 stuff for.