Euro PS3 limited due to costs News

"Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?,"

Because it will piss off customers and make the product worse?

"Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?,"

... err, because its crap thats why.

And because it's false mathematics. Hardware costs a bit initially, but it evens out and becomes a non factor after a few million units. A software solution does not do the job as well and will need to be continually updated for the functionality to inch closer to the hardware standard.

Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?

Then why didn't you do that to the Americans and the Japanese too? WHY NOT INDEED?

"If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?"

Because you're expecting us to pay (a lot) more for it, perhaps?

Does anyone know roughly how much it costs to produce an emotion engine these days?

I dont get this anti-sony stuff. If you want to play ps2 games, buy a ps2, they are dirt cheap now. If you already have ps2 games and a ps2, just keep it. its not a big deal.

I don't give a toss about BC. If I wanted to play PS2 games I'd get my PS2 out the loft!

Being a gamer who looks to the present and future, I'm buying the PS3 for PS3 games oddly enough.....

@Altrezia

Clearly you have no idea how many boxes and wires are making a mess around my TV at the moment.

@SeesThroughAll

Exactly, and why are'nt the savings being passed onto us the consumers? Still, all the time people are happy to put up with this, and not speak out by not spending their money, then these companies will keep treating people like this.
I myself have little interest in BC, but just knowing that America and Japan have got extra for the same cost (less in fact) is enough to really get me riled.

"Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?"

So the reduced manufacturing costs are being passed on to PAL consumers then? Great! Oh wait ....

So we pay the most and they save the most money on us? Nice one sony.

Here we go again!

/straps in for rest of day with thermos flask of tea and donuts...


Edit: To be fair, they can't win. People moan about the lies, now this guy tells the truth and people *still* moan. Bless 'em, eh?

This is going to be a complete car crash of a thread in a couple of hours....

""Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?"

Then why didn't you do that to the Americans and the Japanese too? WHY NOT INDEED?"

Bang right. To those who still deny that we as Europeans get treated appallingly by Sony I call shenanigans. This is total bollocks. Sony crossed the line regarding the PS3's European 'release' (if you could call it that, cock up is porobably more appropriate) long ago, but this only makes it about 200% worse, and confirms that we are only here to fund the console's manufacture for Japan and the US. The utter bullshit excuses are getting ridiculous now to be frank.

I'm not the first to say it, and I'll be far from the last (in this thread in particular), but Sony can fuck off out of Europe and take their console with them as far as I'm concerned if that's going to be their attitude to us and the European market.
I'm sick of them exploiting us in order for them to be able to afford to treat their US and Japan to the better quality products.

Still, all the time people are happy to put up with this, and not speak out by not spending their money, then these companies will keep treating people like this.

No they're not mate. I can speak for myself when I say BC was interesting to me (I never owned neither a PS1 nor a PS2), and cutting back on that, especially when this cutback only affects europeans has made me pretty much give up on buying it around launch. In any case, I'll wait for launch day to see which games will run so far, but I'm not expecting too much if Sony keeps that information a secret from us. So... fuck them.

I guess I'll probably get myself a Wii eventually, when third party publishers give a bit more variety to it's library.

Not the end of the world, but I don't like getting shafted for the sake of pleasing yankees.

Does anyone know roughly how much it costs to produce an emotion engine these days?

$27, I believe

/wonders how many different answers people are going to give to the why not? line...

How many hundreds of millions of these emotion engine chips have they produced over the years? We're dealing with a chip designed and fabbed almost a decade ago... the actual cost of that single chip should be mere pence by now.

Surely the redesigned internal PS3 board, the programmers annual salary and negative PR will cost Sony more in the long run.

"Then why didn't you do that to the Americans and the Japanese too?"

They will be getting this "new" PS3 model soon enough... don't worry ;)

I dont get this anti-sony stuff. If you want to play ps2 games, buy a ps2, they are dirt cheap now. If you already have ps2 games and a ps2, just keep it. its not a big deal.

I don't give a toss about BC. If I wanted to play PS2 games I'd get my PS2 out the loft!

Being a gamer who looks to the present and future, I'm buying the PS3 for PS3 games oddly enough.....

Some of us actually have principles. I already have a PS2, but that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that Sony are charging more for a console that does less stuff than it does in the other regions.

What I don't get is why some people are so loyal to console manufacturers, and are willing to constantly bend over and pick up the soap so to speak. Do you not understand that the more you put up with it the worse it'll get get? That lead to the now legendary (for the wrong reasons) "Europeans historically don't mind delays" comment. Because so many people are willing to bend over and get fucked by them.

Those of you who said 'just get PS2 if want to play old PS2 games', the whole point of PS3 as total entertainment centre was that it can do everything, including playing PS2 games that will utilise progressive scan and look so much better on HDTV and all that from one box. Instead of the mess of wires and consoles cluttering up the limited space below HDTV. PS2 still got killer apps coming for god sake!

My view is that whilst we European pays the most (double what Japanese pay) but we get inferior product to USA and Japanese? Dont deny it, it is inferior and loyal Sony fans should consider importing USA console instead of getting European rip off!

Err...if they're cutting down costs, then why can't they pass that saving on to the consumer? Why should we have to pay more and get less? This makes no sense Sony. I'm not buying a PS3.

Relax guys. Sony has to make a profit too.
As good European consumers let's give them some extra money and let them save on the production costs.

I propose they remove the blu-ray player in the PAL version as well. Most of us don't have a HDTV anyway.

Edit: To be fair, they can't win. People moan about the lies, now this guy tells the truth and people *still* moan. Bless 'em, eh?

Bollocks. They CAN win. 1) Stop lying. 2) Stop bending over europeans. The people don't moan just to moan, they do it for a reason. Fix the reason, and it will go away. But sony hasn't done that so it will go on.

"Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?,"

Because software emulation is not a substitute for proper hardware bc. and because it shows that Sony lies to us Europeans, treating us like second class customers.
And to all the smart fanboys defending this scam:
You wanna play Resistance, Motorstorm AND Okami, Gradius V, GoW2 etc.? According to you guys it's pretty simple...just get a PS3 (600€) and a PS2 (the official price in most Eu countries is still 120€!), then a proper memcard for your PS2 (ca. 30€). That's 750 € and you still don't have a freaking game with it! Bargain I'd say. Not to mention that you now have 2 machines under your TV which clearly sucks if it could be just one...
If the PS2 is so dirt cheap, then why is Sony not putting in the emotion engine chip set?! The answer is pretty simple: They want you to buy a PS2 or are planning to distribute the patched PS2 games over their online service (not for free of course...).

Question
Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?
Answer
Sony released the final specifications for the Euro PS3 last week, revealing that the machine would only play a 'limited range' of PlayStation 2 titles.

"Clearly costs is one of the [reasons]. If software is cheaper than the cost of the chip, then why not do that?,"


Err, hang on minute there mister - us Europeans will be paying more anyway for this. Bastards.

hahahahahahaha, the comedy never ends. taxi for sony

/Is still hoping by "limited" they mean PS1 software emulated on PS2 limited.

Full B/C is the only reason I'm getting a PS3 this early.

RIP OFF !!!!!

"Is still hoping by "limited" they mean PS1 software emulated on PS2 limited"

I very much doubt that. Knowing this announcement would upset people, Sony would have very carefully choosen what words to use. And you can bet "limited" really means about as limited as possible, otherwise they would have used a more optomistic word like "Most" games are compatible

I've emailed Watchdog about this and I encourage you all to do the same. The company must be held to account for this: watchdog@bbc.co.uk

^^ edit, great idea rash great idea!!! ^^ least it'll inform the parents about the price differnce when their kids scream on about getting one.

erm, this aint a case of paying slightly over the odds compared to the rest of the world. we're getting fucking owned. I think this is some billionaire's joke, bet you a doller we can still sell our console to them at 3 times the price as the rest of the world.

dear fucking god man, its very very very expensive. i'm on a decent wage and would not even dream of paying that much to play a handfull of computer games!

and now no BC :D great idea, so you can keep re-selling the ps2 over and over as their lazers pack in after 12 months....

Rash great idea! The best poster in this thread and now banging away to good old watchdog and give Sony chance to be grilled!

Has the BC debacle made it to the mainstream media yet? I reckon a few hundred emails fowarding the press release to The Sun should do it.

Another thing, why is this being announced less than FOUR weeks away from the machines release? Maybe they've got too many pre-orders and so are trying to cull a few?

Nah, didn't think so.

Is the long term plan to do the same in other markets, or just in Europe? If it is the long term plan to do it across the board, the early models will be highly sought after. What will Sony's policy be if an emotion-engine equipped PS3 is returned faulty? Will they replace it with a re-conditioned non-emotion engine equipped model? Hmm...

"Edit: To be fair, they can't win. People moan about the lies, now this guy tells the truth and people *still* moan. Bless 'em, eh?

Bollocks. They CAN win. 1) Stop lying. 2) Stop bending over europeans. The people don't moan just to moan, they do it for a reason. Fix the reason, and it will go away. But sony hasn't done that so it will go on."

It was actually said with tongue firmly in cheek sir! I just found it amusing is all ;)

i'm one of the few who got a ps2 just to play MGS again.
i thought i would do the same when ps3 comes out... but!
no way in hell now.
been playing socom 3 for almost a year now, and still waiting for the patch to come
out!
seeing this, the prices, the limited ps3's i have no choice but to do what i should've
done a year ago - get an X360.

Bye sony, you just lost a huge fan.

You know if they are doing this for Europe, it's pretty much guaranteed that the same will happen to every machine produced at around the same, PAL or not.

"Sony intends to release a full list of PS2 titles that are compatible with the PlayStation 3 on the day the console launches in Europe, March 23."

So they don't know yet? Or, damage limitation....?

I still don't know what to make about the PS2 games situation. It was obvious it was going to happen, as only software emulation was going to get the PS1 downloads working. Good PS1 emulation was quite common on PCs when the PS2 launched, but even very powerful PCs are struggling to get PS2 emulation running at double digit framerates. It makes me wonder if by the time PS4 comes around whether backwards compatibility will be possible at all.

It's a kick in the nuts to brand loyalty, and to wait until a huge number of people got their pre-orders in to announce it is a real pisser. Even though most people didn't use the feature much on the PS2, with such a slew of brilliant PS2 titles just released and awaiting release there will be a much greater likelihood of people waiting for the next big PS3 game to want to slap an unfinished PS2 game in.

"I dont get this anti-sony stuff. If you want to play ps2 games, buy a ps2, they are dirt cheap now. "

What if you were trading in your PS2 to offset the PS3's LUDICROUS pricing in Europe? A lot (well, relatively a lot) of people were planning on doing this, now they either bin a lot of their games (good luck hitting the website whilst queueing up on Launch Day) or get an unofficial £30-40 added on to their "cost" of the PS3. Likewise I don't get Sony's anti-European stuff; usually a company tries to make it's lead market really well rather than visibly go in dry multiple times.

I would have thought if costs were cheaper, then Euroland should get a price drop to compensate?

Won't, of course. But should.

I can understand Sony's reasons for swapping from a hardware solution to software-based emulation as they said a year or so ago that this is what they intended to do. Fair enough.

What pisses me off though is that what was initially a "bonus" for early US and Japanese PS3 owners is not going to happen in Europe. Why on earth didn't Sony release early PAL PS3's with the same hardware as the US and Japan and then switch over, say, in three months time thus giving us early adopters a similar "thank you" present from Sony? We're already paying more than the US and Japan so why isn't the European PS3 cheaper? Sony have admitted that they're switching to software emulation to keep costs down but they sure as hell ain't passing those savings onto us.

So the Euro machine is cheaper to produce and yet retails for way more than the US / Jap models?

And the increased price isnt due to higher taxes in Europe - although that does contribute. Sony have set the baseline price of the Euro PS3 higher anyway. Surely in effect the European consumer will be subsidising the price-cut Japan price?

cutting costs to save money - because they wasted a huge amount of money developing the Cell processor - only for it to be no more impressive than the Xbox 360's processor anyway

"We're dealing with a chip designed and fabbed almost a decade ago... the actual cost of that single chip should be mere pence by now.

Surely the redesigned internal PS3 board, the programmers annual salary and negative PR will cost Sony more in the long run."

Agreed.

Plus you have to take into account that writing software emulators must surely be more expensive and time-consuming in the long run than just releasing firmware updates on machines that have PS2 chips inside them already?

You know I really wanted to play shadow of collussus with a component cable and not a crappy composite one...I havent played on my PS2 in ages, the games look so ugly due to the AV connectivity of the thing. I have been looking at grabbing all the PS2 games I missed and playing them on my PS3, as resistance / motor storm are all going to be a bit short lived...

I found Shadow of the Colossus still looked better on a normal SDTV with RGB or S-Video than on a LCD HDTV with component - with the correct settings.