Epic counter-sues Silicon Knights

By Games Industry.biz Published 10 August, 2007

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Epic Games is counter-suing Silicon Knights, accusing the Too Human developer of attempting to "take Epic's licensed technology, pay nothing for it, and use it any way it pleases", GamesIndustry.biz reports.

Silicon Knights is currently suing Epic, accusing the Gears of War developer of failing to provide a final development kit for the Unreal Engine technology.

But according to a GameSpot report, Epic said Silicon Knights had complete access to the Unreal SDK and the company's support network for up to nine months before it entered into a licensing agreement.

Epic also claims that Silicon Knights' game engine, which it built to continue the work on Too Human and an unnamed title for Sega, is unauthorised and derivative work that violates its licensing agreement.

Epic is seeking damages of at least USD 650,000 and an order that will see any code and games that infringe the copyright to be destroyed.

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Comments (29) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • BBIAJ #1 5 years ago

    Whoops much?

    Be interesting to see what happens to Too Human and Sega's game if Epic win this one...

  • Darren #2 5 years ago

    Oh dear, it doesn't look like we'll be seeing Too Human any time soon. If Epic win then Silicon Knights would presumably have to use an entirely different engine. From what I've heard, Too Human wasn't looking too impressive and it wasn't a game I was particularly interested in anyway.

  • Fernando #3 5 years ago

    still remember the days it was supposed to be a late '06 title.

    how times have changed..

  • mingster #4 5 years ago

    Looks like this could get nasty..
    I think Too Human is going to be 'slightly' delayed now.

  • Emortal #5 5 years ago

    So this is how grownups have kiddiefights? :)

  • absolutezero #6 5 years ago

    Now that the might of Epic has been brought to bear I very much doubt that Silicon Knights has a chance in hell.

    I think they managed to show what they wanted though, that Epic are a bunch of dicks.

  • menage #7 5 years ago

    Everyone buy the Offset engine then:p

    And Epic really are a bunch of dicks indeed. They can have their fatnecked shooters and stuff it. Designer Rockstars.
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/07 @ 10:44

  • asphaltcowboy #8 5 years ago

    D'oh!

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #9 5 years ago

    Or they'll buy id Tech 5.
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/07 @ 10:43

  • bit_mite #10 5 years ago

    Oh dear. Having read some of the rather good creator blogs over at IGN I have a certain amount of faith in this game, despite the awful XBL marketplace trailer and frankly embarrassing soundtrack video that's cropped up here at Eurogamer. I really want this game to be good - indeed, to be released at all - but that's seeming increasingly unlikely...

  • Hunam #11 5 years ago

    I doubt epic will win that counter-suit, it just looks like they are trying to muscle silicon knights out of the picture.

  • rashes #12 5 years ago

    $650000 that must be the cost of licensing Unreal Engine for a single game...?

  • Hunam #13 5 years ago

    No, it mentions 'damages' which can mean almost anything. But they also order all code and games that use the code to be destroyed! I think Epic are being a bunch of cunts personally, specially as more than SK are unhappy with them.

  • RexRunti #14 5 years ago

    I reckon they'll be a couple more wild accusations from both sides ending with an out of court settlement.

  • PlugMonkey #15 5 years ago

    The only people who are going to win here is the lawyers.

    And I have to agree. All evidence seems to point to Epic being a bunch of dicks. I can't imagine demand for their engine is currently very big.

  • tiddles #16 5 years ago

    oh the Humanity

  • Martin #17 5 years ago

    It's good to see big-time game industry veterans such as menage, Hunam and PlugMonkey weighing in with their in-depth and substantiated thoughts on the matter.

    Because nothing screams "dicks" and "uninteresting engine" as a plethora of games based on that engine developed by the aforementioned dicks.

  • FuZion #18 5 years ago

    I love it when this kind of thing happens

  • Razorus #19 5 years ago

    Ah man, I feel sorry for Silicon Knights. I'm really looking forward to Too Human, and this looks set to push it back again.

  • Kami #20 5 years ago

    Well Martin, they call it as they see it. A lot of engines get used these days - you don't have to like the creators of the engine, but if you're paying money for a license and you're not getting the full thing or the right support for it etc. - you're not getting your moneys worth.

    And it's not just Silicon Knights that aren't happy with Epic, that much is for sure. We've heard from some developers here on Eurogamer in comments that weren't happy with the treatment they were getting from Epic.

    In closing, menage, Hunam and PlugMonkey are just forming an opinion based on what they've read. Epic may have an awesome engine, companies may think it's a great piece of kit - but ultimately if the company behind it is growing increasingly intolerable, then people are going to look for the alternatives.

    It's alright to think SK is boo-hoo'ing. But then, if I'd paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for an engine license that the provider can't be arsed to keep me in the loop... I'd be boo-hoo'ing. And then I'd be ooh-sueing.

  • menage #21 5 years ago

    "It's good to see big-time game industry veterans such as menage, Hunam and PlugMonkey weighing in with their in-depth and substantiated thoughts on the matter. "

    Thank you, wasn't really much trouble at all. You can call me Shigeru though, I'm cool like that.

    Never said uninteresting engine though, just dicks.








    Edited by 2 at 10/08/07 @ 14:02

  • BadBoyBonner #22 5 years ago

    I have included the actual law suit that Silicon Knights lodged below.

    It's a bit of a long one (for anyone not used to documents of this type) - but is a bit of an eye opener with what Epic said the engine would do and when, compaired to what was delivered, what is now available, and how technically deficient the engine is compared to it's early boasts (special mention to number of charactyers on screen promised - against what Epic now recommend as a maximum).

    http://ca che.kotaku.com/assets/resources...
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/07 @ 15:59

  • sneetch #23 5 years ago

    I'm eagerly awaiting the next article, the one entitled, "Silicon Knights to Epic: Oh yeah? Well you suck!" followed by "Epic to SK: not as well as your mother!"

    From afar this matter seems a bit, well, playground. I'm sure both side have grievances but... well, we'll see if the judge makes them shake hands and play nicely.

    Ah... after reading the complaint I reckon Silicon Knights should get their big brother to beat up Epic... it does seem like they have a case, breach of contract and all that. Anyone got the Epic complaint?
    Edited by 1 at 10/08/07 @ 16:37

  • The-Bodybuilder #24 5 years ago

    The big loosers here is MS, they loose either way.

  • BadBoyBonner #25 5 years ago

    I think that..

    If I were Carmack I would be sat busily writing a program that converts levels/assets from UE3/UnrealED into id Tech 5 compatible data sets.

    Developers can then use the editor that they know an love, and have the engine that actual developer uses ASAP.

    Then everyone is a winner, apart from Epic of course (which I am sure would please the odd developers here an there).

  • a8a #26 5 years ago

    I think it's time that Denis Dyack admits that hes making a rubbish game, and stops blaming it on the press / epic / his dog etc.

  • krenzler #27 5 years ago

    I like Silicon Knights. Eternal Darkness was great.

    Shame on Epic.

  • onyx_elite #28 5 years ago

    @ rashes

    "$650000 that must be the cost of licensing Unreal Engine for a single game...? "

    Actually that's pretty cheap. The unreal engine has always been expensive to license, in it's hay-day even the unreal 2 engine would set developers back a cool $1,000,000 or thereabouts. In comparison to the time and money it takes to develop your own engine it's usually worth the money to license Epic's engine for that kind of money, particularly if the game looks like a big seller.

    Kinda makes you feel sorry for the guys who made Monster Madness. That had to have lost them a few quid.

    Edit: Fer clarity & grammar
    Edited by 1 at 13/08/07 @ 00:24

  • bdc #29 5 years ago

    If Epic wins the suit, Too Human will actually be destroyed.