EA responds to Spore DRM concerns

By Robert Purchese Published 17 September, 2008

Viruses "infinitely higher" on torrents.

EA has tackled, point by point, a number of concerns made by Spore owners regarding PC anti-piracy software SecuROM.

"There's no viruses, no spyware and no malware," an EA spokesperson told MTV Multiplayer. "We have located a download off of one of the Torrent sites that is a virus.

"The thing I would say to the consumer audience is that, if you're concerned with a virus on your computer, the chances of that are infinitely higher when you're downloading off of a hacked version than it would be downloading the authentic game.

"We would never put any spyware on anyone's computers. That's not going to happen," said the spokesperson.

Fans have argued that hacked versions of Spore can be more appealing because there is no limit on the amount of times they can install the game - the legitimate copy only allows three installations.

However, EA said there will be a patch soon to disassociate computers where the game has been uninstalled, in order to free up some installations. This is similar to iTunes.

The EA spokesperson further tried to dampen the installation limit by offering statistics taken from samples of Mass Effect PC, Spore Creature Creator and Spore owners.

Apparently less than one per cent of owners for each game have used all three installations, while less than 25 per cent have installed twice. Perhaps this is because people are trying to save their installations.

Another valid concern was that, years down the line, EA support for Spore may be closed and additional installations become impossible to obtain.

"If we were to ever turn off the servers on the game, we would put through a patch before that to basically make the DRM null and void," added the EA representative. "We're never walking away from the game and making it into a situation where people aren't going to be able to play it."

Spore owners were also thrown off track by the game manual, which wrongly claimed users can create multiple online accounts from a single copy of the title. Lucy Bradshaw, executive producer for Spore, has already apologised for this "misprint", but EA failed to respond to why this restriction was put in place to begin with.

EA recently came out and said Red Alert 3 would use a "more lenient" version of SecuROM in order to simultaneously appease fans and block pirates. This, basically, boiled down to five installations rather than three, plus one-time activation and no CD needed to play.

However, this not only failed to appease fans - who appear to be holding back from buying games protected by the SecuROM software, but also apparently does nothing to stop games being pirated. Spore, we're told, had been hacked before the official release date.

Instead, fans argue that these measures have been put in place to tackle the pre-owned, trade-in games market.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (80) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Midian #1 3 years ago

    Grrr - The "Misprint" they are refereing to is also actually in the game on the Login Form (as it allows you to Log-Out to change your account) and was functionaility that was in the Creature Creator and has apparently been "removed" from the full game.

  • Maximilian #2 3 years ago

    If the game is cracked, freely available on torrents everywhere and has been (I heard) downloaded over 500,000 times, then what exactly is EA achieving with DRM in this case. Why don't they answer that question.

    I doubt the DRM here has prevented a single act of piracy.

  • neilka #3 3 years ago

    off of

  • kangarootoo #4 3 years ago

    The usual feeble scaremongering.

  • JonFE #5 3 years ago

    "...fans argue that these measures have been put in place to tackle the pre-owned, trade-in games market..."

    Taking into consideration the limit on the number of installations, the restriction on multiple online accounts and the fact that SecuROM failed to stop Spore from been hacked before release, the above argument seems a lot more valid.

  • Eraysor #6 3 years ago

    "Apparently less than one per cent of owners for each game have used all three installations, while less than 25 per cent have installed twice."

    Suely they realise these games have barely even existed long enough to use up three installs with the average person. Idiots.

  • drchocapic #7 3 years ago

    "Fear. It works !"

  • actionfitz #8 3 years ago

    No mention of "why the fuck is there no UNINSTALL option for securom?!"
    when we remove spore... securom stays. And its not spyware?
    wankers.
    spout off all the statistics you want - I regularly upgrade, change the hardware in my PC, i've gad to reformat a few times this year.

    I am not calling a premium phone line for permission to play my spyware ridden game after i've already bought it.

    you fail.
    do not pass go.
    do not collect $200 etc.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 10:04

  • Xerx3s #9 3 years ago

    "There's no viruses, no spyware and no malware,"

    "Apparently less than one per cent of owners for each game have used all three installations, while less than 25 per cent have installed twice. Perhaps this is because people are trying to save their installations."

    Hmmmmzzzz....

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #10 3 years ago

    "who appear to be holding back from buying games protected by the SecuROM software"

    Is there any evidence to support that, other than the prevalence of militant forum whingers?

  • DFawkes #11 3 years ago

    It was that last point about future support that concerned me the most, I'd probably consider it.

    I was swept away by the scaremongering, and appreciate it can genuinely screw your machine up (my last PC really didn't like it), but since I found out some of my favourite games use SecuROM, albeit less restrictively, I can live with it. I still call it malware though.

  • kangarootoo #12 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    Hehe, +1

  • Machetazo #13 3 years ago

    Another thing they'll have done by using this clearly controversial technology on their PC titles, is placed a targeting reticule right over future releases. If some hackers believe there's notoriety to be had from breaking the security and distributing software early. Especially true, if EA tightens measures - they'd probably see it as more of a challenge. As most people suggest, I think that's another reason to imply that the DRM tech has backfired spectacularly.

  • sergeantdisco #14 3 years ago

    EA in 'actually money-grabbing bastards' shocker.

    I will never buy a game with restricted installs if I can help it. I hate to think how many times I've installed some of my favourite games.

    MY favourite games.

    MINE!

  • sickpuppysoftware #15 3 years ago

    Apparently less than one per cent of owners for each game have used all three installations, while less than 25 per cent have installed twice. Perhaps this is because people are trying to save their installations.
    I'd imagine there is also a fair percentage that bought the game and have used up no installations by download the DRM free pirate version to avoid all this crap.

  • JonFE #16 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s:

    Great catch, but does Spore have a non-secret online activation? Because, if it does, EA could be using that to gather their statistics and not some form of spyware...

  • paulf #17 3 years ago

    'Fans have argued that hacked versions of Spore can bemore appealing because there is no limit on the amount of times they can install the game - the legitimate copy only allows three installations.' - nothing to do with the hacked version being free then

  • Mr_Dodger #18 3 years ago

    Plus yo-ho'ers are funding terrorism.

    Fact.

  • gmjapan #19 3 years ago

    Mentalist(air) "Is there any evidence to support that, other than the prevalence of militant forum whingers? "

    There are 3 big games I have definatley avoided because of the 'security' associated with the install (Spore is one). These are games that I would have definatley purchased but didnt. There are also other games I was interested in but just never bothered to find out more when I found out what security was used.

    Games like GalCivII are such a breath of fresh air.

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #20 3 years ago

    there is an uninstall option for securom. go to a dos prompt, change to directory for the game, type `gamename.exe /uninstall` this should remove all traces of Securom from the machine.

  • Sweetmate #21 3 years ago

    I cancelled my preorder of Crysis Warhead this week because of this and I'm not a forum militant, just an informed consumer who will not accept this bullshit.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 10:55

  • Ravenger #22 3 years ago

    Glad to see there's going to be a patch to deauthorize activations - my biggest problem with the DRM. Now can we have one for Mass Effect please, and any future game that uses this DRM.

  • penhalion #23 3 years ago

    It starting to look like DRM is actually one of the contributing factors of piracy! A lot of stigma has grown up around the fact that legitimate users are getting penalised for buying DRM enabled software. Software that requires you to put in a CD key and then have the CD handy for actually using the game. I get asked all the time "Why the heck did I need a CD key if I then still need the CD to play?" and it's a legitimate question. Another question that often crops up is "How the hell are you dictating how many times I can install the software I paid for?". As I feel the same way about such things, I had no answer to that. I'm not sure what problem there is as long as there is only one copy of the game active at any given time. I always thought that this is what online registration was meant for.

    Ironically, someone once asked me to my face why it was easier to play a pirated version of a game I had worked on than to play the legal copy. I had no answer for them even though it made me pretty angry to hear them say it.

    Edit: I actually uninstalled Spore once I realised it used Securom. I returned it to Game and got a refund. They were arguing that they don't give refunds on PC games but, I pointed out that consumer law was on my side and I'd nip outside and get a policeman to explain it to them if they liked!

    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 11:15

  • Skurmedel #24 3 years ago

    Their statistics is bollocks. It doesn't matter if "a small percentage" is actually using up all the installs, it's the possibility of using them up in the first place that sucks.

  • shinki #25 3 years ago

    Good form of them to respond, this seems to address all of the problems with the DRM iteslf. The question still stands though... why bother when it obivously hasn't stopped pirates at all.

  • hiddenranbir #26 3 years ago

    EA are wrong.

    Stardock are right.

    I cancelled my preorder of Crysis Warhead this week because of this and I'm not a forum militant, just an informed consumer who will not accept this bullshit.

    Get it on Steam.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 11:15

  • chicknstu #27 3 years ago

    "Red Alert 3 would use a "more lenient" version of SecuROM in order to simultaneously appease fans and block pirates"

    I'm going to say this once....

    YOU CAN NOT BLOCK PIRATES

    ok, fact. you can not stop people pirating games. Pirates can obtain ANY game they want, through piracy. There is no game that has managed to remain piracy free. We now KNOW this is impossible.

    Now, given that you can NOT stop people pirating games, exactly what is the benefit of DRM to anyone? and DON'T say it's to stop people pirating games.

  • kipper #28 3 years ago

    Mr_Dodger: How can someone fund terrorism if they pay _no money_ for a pirated/stolen game?

  • thesombrerokid #29 3 years ago

    and don't say it's to stop the resale of the game because a few months later to take off the straight jacket allowing anyone to resell it if they like.

    you're more likely to get malware off pirates trust us the massive money grabbing conglomerate with your privacy and information we promise we'll not use it against you despite what our Licence agreement says, don't trust those thieving wretches who made us reclassify the legal definition of theft and force the governments of the world to make innovation in the IT sector illegal.

  • chicknstu #30 3 years ago

    Why is money a part of this too? Way I see it, all that can possibly come from EA using DRM is that they lose money.

    - They lose money through everyone pirating it out of principle
    - They lose money thhrough having to actually pay for the security software
    - They lose money from bad press and word of mouth putting people off a purchase

    Someone please explain, how does using DRM actually make them any money? They're hoping people will buy it twice once their 3 installs are gone? erm... good luck with that!

    Hopefully someone high up at EA will see this post, and a suit will get fired.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 12:05

  • peak_performance #31 3 years ago

    Limited second hand sales = Increased first hand sales?

  • IneptPercy #32 3 years ago

    Install limits are fine with me if they can be reversed, alos as mentioned they will basically release the 'hack' themselves when servers get switched off.

    THe excuse of DRM justifys stealing a game makes me laugh.

  • chicknstu #33 3 years ago

    @IneptPercy

    "THe excuse of DRM justifys stealing a game makes me laugh. "

    I agree with you, although I have heard a number of tea-leafs using this as an excuse, probably to make themselves feel better. Like they wouldn't have downloaded it if it didn't have DRM! yeah, my arse!

    That said, I have a legitemate copy, but as soon as I hit my '3 install limit', I'm going crack-hunting. Senseless.

  • johnnybrn #34 3 years ago

    And they wonder why PC gaming is dying

    Another thing is that PC games have the highest depreciation of any console. So companies have to recover their investments quickly to make a return.

    I'm going to hold off getting Spore until its under £20 which will be in a couple of months

  • Gearskin #35 3 years ago

    Blah Blah Blah, the internet fanbase strikes again. I bought SPORE, I installed SPORE, I play SPORE.

    Stop moaning like a bunch of bitches. If DRM is enough to stop you buying a game you want... there is something wrong with your brain.

  • jmg123 #36 3 years ago

    If they must use DRM, then why not do it via steam (or at least in the same way) at least that system works.

  • penhalion #37 3 years ago

    @gearskin

    If installing DRM software that may or may not send back a list of everything you have installed on your machine everytime it logs onto the internet to verify your copy of the game, isn't a worry for you then that's fine. After all Sony's rootkit was harmless wasn't it......

  • Gearskin #38 3 years ago

    But you've no problem putting your credit card details onto the web? Or your email? Or you name when registering on forums?

    Securom is a very small part of the potential HORROR that could befall you.

  • magicpanda #39 3 years ago

    From the Spore Forums DRM FAQ:

    Why even bother with this new process? It seems like a hindrance… will it benefit the players?

    Yes, it will benefit players. The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. Losing discs can always be such a pain, so requiring players to authenticate online can be a huge benefit.

  • chicknstu #40 3 years ago

    "Why even bother with this new process? It seems like a hindrance… will it benefit the players? "

    Wait... you don't have to put the Disc in the drive to play?!?

    I didn't know that. That's actually really awesome.

  • magicpanda #41 3 years ago

    and losing discs can be such a pain...
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 13:42

  • dsmx #42 3 years ago

    No matter how you define a virus securom is one therefore every legitimate copy of spore is infected with a virus.

  • Ranger101 #43 3 years ago

    I love how Gearskin is arguing the points of DRM with a games developer who has had it in his own products and dislikes it with very specific and knowledgeable reasons...


    "If I ain't got nuffin to hide, I ain't got nuffin to fear..."

    Fuck you. It's that sort of thinking and mentality in this Country... nay this Continent, that has led us to such a loss of Privacy that a significant amount of people think giving up their DNA is less worse then having pictures of yourself naked spread around and kept on file. Yes, this is in context. What I do with my computer, with my software and the way I use it - even if it is in flagrant abuse of any license agreement - is my responsibility and my choice. You have the right to enforce any punishment on me for doing so, but it is absolutely unacceptable for you to track my habits and behaviour in case I 'might' abuse your license.

    Do you see the difference there?

    By buying a DRM enabled software and supporting it, you are legally stating that there is the possiblity that you are infact a Copyright Infringer; that there is a chance that you might breach their Terms and Conditions and you need help in regulating yourself. This also means you're automatically liable, without much of a defense, if you accidently breach their T's & C's.

    In other words, they're saying informally, "You're probably a 'thief', we don't trust you, so fuck you, we're going to babysit how you use the game...we like your money though. Thanks. You Fool.".

    No, Fuck you. I have acquired a license for you game, I want to use the license for this game in a manner that suits me, and in a way that doesn't invade my privacy or limit the actions I can perform on MY OWN hardware. Otherwise, no sale.

  • Ranger101 #44 3 years ago

    Gearskin, your analogy with Online Credit Card fraud is irrelevant and a completely different matter. Apples and Oranges. Does not compute.

  • Skeletor #45 3 years ago

    @Maximilian

    "If the game is cracked, freely available on torrents everywhere and has been (I heard) downloaded over 500,000 times, then what exactly is EA achieving with DRM in this case. Why don't they answer that question."

    Have you actually read the article? This is NOT about preventing piracy!
    "Instead, fans argue that these measures have been put in place to tackle the pre-owned, trade-in games market."

    DRM is a lie...

  • FooAtari #46 3 years ago

    @Ranger101

    +1

    100% agree on both your posts.

    I can't possibly understand why any consumer would ever be ok with this crap.

  • Ranger101 #47 3 years ago

    (in response/followup to Maximillion)

    Well... technically this DRM is enforcing their T's&C's - most software companies don't allow you to resell a licence to their product, and this enforces that.

    It's just a very poor area to enforce as a recent case concerning the resale of Autodesk/AutoCAD software has shown that the prevention of resale of software cannot be upheld in court, due to it being too common and accepted in society.

    By enforcing this type of DRM, EA are going against the grain of Consumer expectation - which holds enough weight in court on most occasions.

    Technically it's against most EULA's for you to trade in an Xbox or Playsation game in store like GAME etc. But no software company has done anything about it because it just won't hold up in court.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 14:45

  • Chauncy #48 3 years ago

    I love how each EA statement released relating to this DRM debacle never really covers the issues, but then I suppose that's to be expected.

    Personally, I'm completely against having to ask permission to use something I've paid money for, be it via the software itself, or a premium rate phone number, grovelling for a new activation. The news that a patch will allow you to reassign these installs is a step in the right direction, but I think we all know that the only real solution is to dispense with these kinds of measures that present more hindrance to legitimate users than pirates.

    Especially when the real reason for them including it is pretty clear: EA: Second-hand sales are a "critical situation"

    I've already decided against buying Spore because of this, and I won't be getting Red Alert 3 either, even with the new 'lenient' DRM. It would be really interesting to see the kind of sales EA is loosing because of this, in comparison to what they would have lost in second hand sales.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 14:51

  • AbyssUK #49 3 years ago

    Innocent until proven guilty is how its meant to work, DRM is just wrong don't treat your customers like common thieves.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 15:15

  • saku_luk #50 3 years ago

    I will never again buy a game made and published by EA since:

    - They DO NOT state on the box or anywhere else that it contains a malware SecuROM
    - They DO NOT state that you can install it only 3 times
    - They DO NOT state that SecuROM isn't removed when you uninstall your game
    - They tell you that you can make multiple accounts online while YOU CAN'T and call it a missprint.
    And I will not support DRM like SecuROM.....

    Lets see, this game was cracked 1 week before its release, this alone shows that shit like SecuROM is just SHIT, nothing else....a sole purpose to mess with US customers, so we can't resell games we don't need anymore....also it was downloaded 500,000 times according to some sites, well if there was no DRM on the disc we could take at least 300,000 of those 500k and add em into sold games....

    Sorry EA, I am not paying 50-60$ for rental with extra malware on my disc....

  • paketep #51 3 years ago

    EA is a virus. One that is far more dangerous that anything your computer can get from any torrent.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 15:54

  • Krun #52 3 years ago

    Seems any copy protection is absolutely worthless as pirates always crack it with hours. Copy protection that actually makes a users experience worse then not using it, leads some customers to risk a cracked version. The up shot of which is that you may as well not bother with copy protection, because

    A It doesn't work,
    B Annoys legit users
    C Cost you money,

    So what's the answer? Maybe just sell your product at a price you'd feel ashamed not to pay. Hell if they just ignored making it copy protected and charge just £10 a copy, or hell go the radiohead route and just ask for donations of what ever you want to pay. They may do okay out of that. (they could easily do this if they removed the high street retailer from the loop.)
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 16:17

  • FooAtari #53 3 years ago

    Haven't been to EA's download store then Krun?

    They charge MORE than the shops do...

  • smelly #54 3 years ago

    >The usual feeble scaremongering.

    What? The people who are claiming that "securom" is an evil virus you mean?

  • smelly #55 3 years ago

    I dont see the problem.. Ignoring all the blatent scaremongering by people "it's to stop 2nd hand sales", and other such bollocks..

    99.99% of modern games have come with securom.. But you've ALWAYS had to have your cd/dvd in the drive. This enables you to not only play it without the cd/dvd.. but also install it at work, etc.

    If they can patch it so that when i uninstall i get a free install back (which btw all you scaremongerers will enable me to sell it second hand).. Then i dont see a problem at all!

    And it's STILL worth doing for publishers regardless of how quick pirated versions come out.. Without it, all someone would have to do is copy the disc, stick it on torrent.. at least this way they have to spend time working on a crack.. Or download someone elses crack which might be a virus, etc etc.

  • smelly #56 3 years ago

    @saku_luk : "And I will not support DRM like SecuROM..... "

    Oh come the fuck off it.. This is starforce all over again.. You DO realise that before you were told about it, you've probably installed hundreds of pc games over the last 10 years that had securom?

  • smelly #57 3 years ago

    "No, Fuck you. I have acquired a license for you game, I want to use the license for this game in a manner that suits me, and in a way that doesn't invade my privacy or limit the actions I can perform on MY OWN hardware. Otherwise, no sale"


    So tell me.. how many of your disc based games can you play on your console hardware without the disc? OH KNOES!!! Xbox is limiting the actions you can perform on YOU OWN HARDWARE!

  • saku_luk #58 3 years ago

    Nope, I never install games that comes with securom, I hate it ever since I couldn't burn MY OWN graphics into a DVD since as administrator I didn't have rights to do it :) thats why I will never support it......for a long time now, my PC is secuROM free, and I know how to remove that garbage if I accidently install something that comes with it and I don't know about it.....

    But than, a casual PC users don't know how to remove it, and messing with registry is beyond them....thats why they need to know what secuROM really does.

  • smelly #59 3 years ago

    @lavalant.. No not an industry whore.. just someone who thinks with his OWN MIND and doesnt bow down to internet mob menality (or should that be stupidity)?

    "@smelly the xbox scenario you just mentioned has nothing to do with anything, the xbox is like a DVD player, I buy game, play game, keep game, trade it sell it lend it to a friend, it's not encoded so I can't use it anywhere else or degrades with time. DVD players don't let me watch movies without the discs either. "


    Right. Now as i said.. EA have given us the opportunity to install the game.. and play WITHOUT THE DISC! AND install it on MORE than one pc (hell, i could install it on a mates pc for him if i wanted!).

    Now the ONLY issue with this system was that once you installed it 3 times, that was it.. But EA have now said they'll patch it so that it gives you an install back after you uninstall.

    So what exactly IS the problem now?

    Once this patch comes out - this will be INFINTELY SUPERIOR to pretty much EVERY pc game in the last 10 years (pretty much ALL of which have used securom btw)

  • smelly #60 3 years ago

    Once this patch is released.. I fail to see the problem.. Apart from people moaning for moanings sake.

    Or worse.. everyone now has heard the words "securom" and now it's about to become the "starforce" of modern times..

    I.e. despite being used for over 10 years in millions of games.. suddenly people will start saying they have a friend of a friend of a friend who knew someone whose computer died because of it

  • smelly #61 3 years ago

    "I've already decided against buying Spore because of this, and I won't be getting Red Alert 3 either, even with the new 'lenient' DRM."


    What if they went back to the same drm that they've been using for YEARS for Red Alert 3? Or are you just using this to justify pirating games to yourself?

  • bad09 #62 3 years ago

    "I cancelled my preorder of Crysis Warhead this week because of this and I'm not a forum militant, just an informed consumer who will not accept this bullshit."

    \o/

    Intelligent consumers FTW!!!! Kudos to Sweetmate, if only more consumers actually voted with their wallet rather than buy then complain (says the FOOL who gave Sony money even after they screwed us on B/C just because MGS4 was coming), it 'ain't gonna change while they still get your cash folks, We all need to be firm WE WILL NOT BUY THIS CRAP!!!!

  • smelly #63 3 years ago

    >@smelly, have you seen this patch?

    No.. but the point is - he's announced said patch is in the works.. so what's the problem?

    That's the story.. that patch to get around this problem is in the works.. But yet people are still moaning about securom and other shit which is against what this story itself is about.

    Once patch arrives - no problems.

  • smelly #64 3 years ago

    "I cancelled my preorder of Crysis Warhead this week because of this and I'm not a forum militant, just an informed consumer who will not accept this bullshit."


    How do you know you're informed? How do you know crysis will have this "3 install" system?

  • smelly #65 3 years ago

    As for those of you moaning about 2nd hand sells..

    Honestly.. how many of you have EVER sold a PC game 2nd hand? PC game devalue quicker than the us economy

    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 18:01

  • bad09 #66 3 years ago

    "Honestly.. how many of you have EVER sold a PC game 2nd hand? PC game devalue quicker than the us economy "

    Smelly makes a pretty good point the PC 2nd hand market is pretty useless, but for me it's the principle of it more than anything, I pay my money I don't expect to be limited in use or have to ring this person or that person so I can use it again (even if I may never need to!). I part with my cash and I get a game simple I do not want (or encourage) DRM in any way - I bought it I use it HOW I WANT, I can download anything for free with no DRM anyway if I want to even with all the "protection" in the world. Something doesn't sit right with people about this useless method of copyright protection which seems to only limit legitimate consumers as far as I can see, that's why people moan. It's also why I don't bother with PC games and just buy console games these days.

  • Chauncy #67 3 years ago

    @smelly

    Firstly, I'm not using it to justify pirating games. When I say I won't be buying it, that's exactly what I mean, but that doesn't mean I'll be off to pirate it, I just won't be playing it. I'm an avid gamer, and I buy all my games. If they went back to older DRM where I could be sure that the copy of Red Alert I bought would work indefinitely (hardware notwithstanding), then that would be fine by me.

    Secondly, I don't see how the fact that PC games often have poor 2nd hand resale value has anything to do with the issue. Games are indeed sold second hand, and EA want to prevent that with mightily restrictive DRM measures.

    Thirdly, I have no idea how you could possibly think it's a boon for the consumer to have this present. Unless you're simply playing devil's advocate for poops and giggles.

  • smelly #68 3 years ago

    @Lavalant: "@smelly no the story was really about the state of DRM"

    Oh, so this paragraph didnt exist then?

    "However, EA said there will be a patch soon to disassociate computers where the game has been uninstalled, in order to free up some installations. This is similar to iTunes."


    @Chauncy.. I'll try very hard not to call you a flipping idiot.. and re-answer all your points which i've already answered elsewhere AGAIn.. but in a manner which is hopefully simplified for you..

    "and EA want to prevent that with mightily restrictive DRM measures."

    No they dont. This story (as i just pointed out) STATED they're working on a patch to allow you to uninstall it and get a "install" back. That will allow you to resell the game for the pennies you get for pc games if you want.


    "Thirdly, I have no idea how you could possibly think it's a boon for the consumer to have this present."


    BECAUSE dipshit.. as i've already stated. Up until NOW - nearly ALL PC Games have used SecuRom.. But you've HAD to have the cd in the drive to play it. Using this system (with the patch they're suggesting) - not only can you play without the disc in the drive.. But you can also give it to two friends to play on their machines for free without the disc either. Also you can install it at work, etc etc.

    Only a complete dipshit would fail to see this is a BETTER system (again.. once said patch is completed)


    EDIT: whoops.. i did promise myself i wouldnt call you a dipshit.. but you seemed to be unable to read my posts and/or the article.. so i just presumed you were so het up with "mob mentality" internet rage that you were missing the point of the whole thing.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 19:25

  • Freek #69 3 years ago

    Completly missing the point that treating the consumer as potential criminals gained them absolutly nothing but bad press, because dispite the draconian DRM the game leaked to the warez community even before it hit retail. Good job, punishing the people who buy your games for nothing!

  • Ravenger #70 3 years ago

    I don't think EA would have dropped the 10 day re-activation, increased the activations to 5, or announced they were working on a way to deactivate an install if they hadn't had consumer pressure applied.

    I think they seriously underestimated the depth of feeling in the PC community over the unfairness of the DRM, as it stood originally.

    Just goes to show that protests against this sort of thing can work.

    Let's hope they apply the same changes to Mass Effect too.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 19:50

  • smelly #71 3 years ago

    "Completly missing the point that treating the consumer as potential criminals gained them absolutly nothing but bad press, because dispite the draconian DRM the game leaked to the warez community even before it hit retail. Good job, punishing the people who buy your games for nothing!"


    They're NOT punishing players though? As far as i can see this is an IMPROVEMENT over older systems (i.e. i no longer need to go looking for my game disc for a game i fully installed!). I used to install cracks SOLEY so i didnt have to look for the cd each time i wanted to play! This seems a MUCH better system once you get rid of the 3 installs and your out thing.

    As for copy protection in general.. it's no different than that you get in consoles?

    As for piracy.. yes it was pirated before it got in stores.. But surely the fact that people HAVE to look for a crack, which may or may not contain a virus/spyware/etc discourages SOME piracy? Surely it's better to make it HARDER for the cracker to have to try to go thru the code and crack the thing - than it is to just hand it to them on a plate and say "here.. take our 3 years of hard work and just give it away to everyone - we dont need to make money.. we're doing this for the absolute love of it!"

    Ive said this before - but it seems to me like this is another "starforce" thing where everyone is "against" it for stupid reasons and no-one really knows why.. but the rest of the internet tells them it's bad so it must be:

    Lets take the issues one by one:

    Q. It's a drm system! Drm is evil!!!
    A. You dont seem to have a problem with consoles

    Q. But .. but.. but.. This effects all my pc files.. its destroying my pc in some way
    A. Every pc game in recent years has used securom.. You've never complained about it up till now?

    Q. But this 3 install thing is stopping me reselling it!
    A. They've said they're going to release a patch for that.. and who REALLY sells 2nd hand pc games anyhow?

    Q. But the pirates cracked the game anyhow!
    A. But it still required effort for them to do so.. You think it's better to just hand them it on a plate? Do you honestly think that'll make piracy LESS bad if people DONT have to go searching for a crack which may or may not contain a virus?

    etc etc..

    Actually i cant be arsed going thru all the points AGAIN.. I'm sounding like a scratched record, and no-one will listen because mob-mentality is just stupid.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 19:57

  • secombe #72 3 years ago

    If publishers were that bothered about trade-ins/pre-owned stuff, why don't they just threaten to withdraw from that store? Surely even Game aren't bigger than EA. I'm sure if given the ultimatum, Game would rather continue to stock new EA products than flog pre-owned games.

    I realise this is slightly different as GAME don't do PC games, but plenty of other stores (such as Gamestation) do.

  • Gearskin #73 3 years ago

    @Ranger101

    You are wrong.

    End of the day, I bought SPORE and I can play SPORE. Just like everyone else. All you moaning bitches are just full of shit. Noone at EA accused me of anything when I put down the cash for the Galactic Edition. If I run into any trouble I can fix it. But I won't. So I won't need to.

    I'm all for them trying to stop the damn freeloaders. Maybe DRM doesn't work. Maybe there will always be a way around every attempt. But until the day comes when legit customers are absolutely treated like the criminals who steal the software, people should just STFU and play the damn games.

  • smelly #74 3 years ago

    ""I'm sure if given the ultimatum, Game would rather continue to stock new EA products than flog pre-owned games."

    Doubtful.

    Game's profits last year showed they made more than 4 or 5 times more money from pre-owned than brand new games.

    "I realise this is slightly different as GAME don't do PC games, but plenty of other stores (such as Gamestation) do. "

    And the reason? Pc games dont sell well 2nd hand..


    I *DO* love the way the overcharging rip-off merchants of game stores are seen as being the "good guys" whereas the people who MAKE the damn games are seen as the scrounging bad guys..
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 23:20

  • jimr9999us #75 3 years ago

    Honestly I could give a crap about drm. I like playing the game w/o the dvd in the tray.

    The rest of y'all sound like crybaby whiners. So many other things of greater import out there to fuss about.

  • Krun #76 3 years ago

    @smelly

    Mob mentality is what we've all been taught to respect. Some call it democracy. But even if the mob is wrong , it fails to matter because when the mob demand something, they either get it, or they take it. Mobs are rarely stopped by good arguments.

    So what do you do in the face of the mob, you either give them the bread and circus they demand, or they storm the gates and destroy you. In these times of economic despair you're even less likely to convince people they should pay for anything let alone something that "appears" equally risky (virus or DRM equate to the same risk in the mind of the user).

    Which is why I advocated just giving games for free with either a donation system or at a budget £10 download fee without a DRM.
    Cheap games worked really well back in the old spectrum days. sure we could all just copy the tapes but for £5 you could buy a game without the hassle of finding someone with it or wandering car boot sales looking for a pirate copy (these days that equates to installing a torrent and risking you PC). Yes there were a lot of pirate copies, but that didn't kill the business. I know I spent my pocket money each week getting some new game for a £5 or sometimes £2.50.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 23:43

  • Sweetmate #77 3 years ago

    @hiddenranbir

    "Get it on Steam."

    Was prepared to until i found out the Steam version also contains Securom and the 3-install limit. Which makes no sense at all considering with Steam you don't have a DVD, you already have to activate it through Steam, and you cant resell it anyway!

    @smelly

    "How do you know you're informed? How do you know crysis will have this "3 install" system?"

    I know I'm informed because I monitored EA, Crytek, Steam and various enthusiast forums during the build up to release, and from there found out that both retail and Steam versions of the game have the 3 install limit.

  • peppergomez #78 3 years ago

    well, nice to see that EA is trying, at least, in the face of criticsim. what might be a better anti-piracy method?

  • chilinux #79 3 years ago

    From article:
    "The EA spokesperson further tried to dampen the installation limit by offering statistics taken from samples of Mass Effect PC, Spore Creature Creator and Spore owners.

    Apparently less than one per cent of owners for each game have used all three installations, while less than 25 per cent have installed twice."

    Reply:
    These statistics are less useful when mixing in games that have just been released. But even if only 25% of Mass Effect PC users are using up re-installs at a rate of 1 per 5 months, that still means 25% of the users could reach their limit in only 15 months and reach the point of a failed re-install attempt at 20 months.

    The University I went to did a study and found that the majority of students running Windows needed to reinstall the entire OS at least once per year. This was usually because the OEM demanded it before addressing hardware issues or it was the only effective way to remove some viruses, botnets or spyware. While EA products themselves may not contain viruses or spyware, the 3 re-install limit may still act as incentive for users to avoid performing OS re-installs to remove infections or work with their OEM's recommended troubleshooting procedures.

    For a video game to have only a 2 year time bomb for a quarter of it's users should not be spin-doctored as acceptable. It is even worse if the video game will has a time bomb which should be reached by the average university student in only 4 years.

    From article:
    "'If we were to ever turn off the servers on the game, we would put through a patch before that to basically make the DRM null and void,' added the EA representative. 'We're never walking away from the game and making it into a situation where people aren't going to be able to play it.'"

    Reply:
    Ha! EA has already failed to make good on this claim. I contacted EA support about being able to continue to play System Shock 2. The version of SafeDisk will not correctly verify the legitimate game CDROM in several popular DVD-ROM drives. Support indicated that the game was too old to continue to get support and no patch will be provided. The concern that EA will leave die-hard Spore users without a solution to continue playing should be taken seriously as this is the type of thing EA has ALREADY DONE with DRM games they have issues in the past and still take no steps to correct.

    To your unnamed EA spoke person: Spin-doctoring statistics and issuing lies are not steps to correcting these issues.

  • keano #80 3 years ago

    Anyone else seeing EA finally display itself as the evil - star wars like - empire it is......its new chapter... the DRM Wars