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E3: Molyneux and Milo Interview

Xbox 360 Interview by Ellie Gibson

2 June, 2009

Page 2 of 2. <- Page 1

Eurogamer: Can you draw a nob? Because most people, given the opportunity to draw something, will draw a nob.

Peter Molyneux: That's the interesting thing, you see. We've been very, very clever about this. Although you can put stuff in his world, you'll notice he never shows you the stuff. So although you could do obscene stuff, he'll just look at it and he won't understand it. He won't pin that picture up on the wall, because I'm fully aware people will do things like that.

Eurogamer: Can you explain more about the pocket money system and how that works?

Peter Molyneux: You can buy stuff for Milo's world, like a bicycle or a trampoline. He'll come back from school one day and say, 'Oh, Alex' - Alex is this character at school who always does a bit better than Milo - 'Alex has got a new bike. When can we get a new bike?'

To get that bike you need to earn money by doing activities. There are three activities you can do, and the amount of time you spend on each activity sculpts your Milo in different ways - so everybody's Milo will be completely unique to them.

If you do lots of work, your Milo will be very studious. His hair will have a side parting. He'll be quite worried about his appearance and he won't like to get dirty. Whereas if you do more of the play stuff with Milo, he'll be more of a kid who goes out and scratches his knees.

Your character doesn't have to be a boy, it can be a girl. At the start you can choose whether to be play as Milly or Milo.

Eurogamer: One of my colleagues did want me to ask why you made him a 12 year-old boy, and not a nubile 17 year-old lady acrobat?

Peter Molyneux: If we were making a porn game, I probably would do that. He's not 12, he's about 10, and that's before he's hit puberty. Part of the amazing impact of this is he can remind you of your childhood.

Eurogamer: My colleague pointed out that if it was a 17 year-old acrobat, instead of things like 'Have you done your homework?' you could say, 'Will you take your bra off?'

Peter Molyneux: Yeah, you could do. You could make a great porn game with this stuff, that's absolutely for sure. But I'd love the idea that you've got this character who you are inspiring. It is such a wonderful feeling that to inspire anything, whether it's a dog or a person or a kid. When you see and feel that emotion, it's pretty emotional.

Eurogamer: You said he only understands certain words. So presumably you can't have a conversation about the situation in Palestine?

Peter Molyneux: The number of words he understands is built up over time. For Claire [the lady who demoed a conversation with Milo during Microsoft's conference], it's something like 500 words.

But we haven't cracked the real problem, which is him understanding the meaning of it all. He'll give you the illusion he does that. The interesting thing is you can only talk to him when the Talk icon appears at the bottom of the screen. That's when he's listening to you; the rest of the time, he's not. He's listening to you because there's a context in which you can talk to him.

One of the journalists who came in before you had obviously read up on the Turing test. He asked Milo one of the questions in the test - 'Do you remember when we met yesterday?' Well, of course, we haven't cracked the Turing test. If we had, then applying it to a computer game would be the last of the solutions we'd use it for.

'E3: Molyneux and Milo' Screenshot 4

Ellie got to play a Burnout prototype, you know. You can read about that in our other feature.

Eurogamer: Looks like my time's up, so briefly: are you going to change your name to Gepetto Molyneux?

Peter Molyneux: As in Pinocchio? I could do, I suppose. I have to tell you, it is amazing. You do feel, in a way, that you are creating something that has never existed before. When you show it to people, especially non-gamers, it does promote this incredible emotional reaction.

Eurogamer: I was nearly in tears during the E3 conference. But that was partly because I am a girl and I have jetlag and the internet wouldn't work properly for the Live Text. But yes, I was nearly in tears. I didn't want Shane Kim to see me cry though.

Peter Molyneux: We have had people in tears, because there are times when this is quite an emotional journey. It's very different. It's very ambitious. But we're going for it.

Milo and Kate has no current release date, and nor does Project Natal. Check out the b-roll on Eurogamer TV.

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Comments: 1-50 of 85 in total | next 50 »

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LazyDan
02/06/09 @ 08:58
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Will not work as they are presenting it. This is the start of the Molyneux cycle, so by the time it comes out and promise after promise has been backpeddled on it'll be a Sims clone.
JohnnyWashnGo
02/06/09 @ 08:58
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Its an amazing demo, but looks like the most boring game imaginable.

If I wanted to spend my spare time interacting with 10 year old boys I would... well, to be honest, I don't want to spend my time doing that!
Xerx3s
02/06/09 @ 08:58
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Interesting. Not really my field of work but I know my mate will love this (studies advanced AI). So the only thing that they didn't manage to do is understand deeper contexts of things (that would be the holy grail of true AI). Question is if we really want that tbf. Do I want the enemy soldiers in MW2 to suddenly become aware of his actions and the implications of it and throw down his weapons in a fit of remorse?
Xerx3s
02/06/09 @ 09:01
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I love that people have thought of applications for sex, 2 seconds after it was announced.
Les
02/06/09 @ 09:01
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"A lot of stuff, like the voice recognition stuff, is based on things like Windows 7 technology."

LOL. Even at E3 they instruct their staff to reference the rebranded Vista.
squarejawhero
02/06/09 @ 09:03
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I do wonder how much bollocks this all is, because the man is the bane of even his own staff when he opens his mouth last I heard.
Venkman90
02/06/09 @ 09:04
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I doubt this was really project Dimitri, I bet that just got shelved as it was too ambitious, this is a cheap gimmick not the result of 10 years of work.
patchbox360
02/06/09 @ 09:06
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must admit i didnt like Molyneux, but he is starting to win me over with his aspiration for gaming.
Britesparc
02/06/09 @ 09:08
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The fact that Ellie told him a joke and he laughed is proof enough that it works to me. I never expected it to be Data or Arnold Rimmer or something - so the fact that it works just about how the demo presented it is really bloody impressive.

Although I agree with others, I'm not sure exactly how much game there is here.
frunk
02/06/09 @ 09:10
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Some classic EG questioning there. Loved the article. Milo is juts a"little disturbing" and it will be interesting to see how it progresses. However I think it will be more interesting to see how it progresses rather than play it.

Love the idea of the technology but I feel it is of limited use... one of the reasons the Wiimote works is because you CAN sit on the sofa and wiggle your hand :)
Gnort
02/06/09 @ 09:10
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While the technology does sound very impressive, the "game" they're developing sounds thoroughly unappealing, at least to me. I'm somewhat surprised Molyneux seems so excited about it.
onyxbox
02/06/09 @ 09:13
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What they didn't tell Ellie is that there's a guy under the table...

Oldest trick in the book :-D
Erebu
02/06/09 @ 09:14
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Why a boy?
Couldn't they make it a bartender?

anomagnus
02/06/09 @ 09:15
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this is a pedo's dream....

I'm at a loss to understand the thinking behind this 'game'

Whats its target market? I find the whole thing a little unsettling. And no, i'm not some crusty fucking Luddite, but the only practical target markets i can think of are:-

1) Children without friends. This won't help them, its more likely to fuck them up for life

2) Pedo's- sad but true.

This seems the electronic version of those guys that buy life like dolls for their homes....
stampax
02/06/09 @ 09:16
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I WANT! Find out te release date ill be buying a box for this def.
Negotiator
02/06/09 @ 09:17
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So all you nob heads who said it wouldn't work, how you like those apples. Pete is a pioneer, and with Microsofts 3D motion tech he will create an amazing experience.
ShakaCarnage
02/06/09 @ 09:18
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But Ellie - WHAT DID YOU THINK OF IT?
gaselite
02/06/09 @ 09:22
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This looks lovely, and the principles guiding its development are admirable, and I wish them every success in the world with it.

Some of the relentless cynicism on EG from commenters is highly dispiriting and exhibits a frightening lack of imagination.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 02/06/09 @ 10:24
Der_tolle_Emil
02/06/09 @ 09:23
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The demo was very impressive and somewhat scary at the same time. I just can't shake the feeling of slightly disturbed people acting like parents. It takes this quite a bit farther than Tamagotchi or Nintendogs ever did - if it works. Great interview btw.
Dizzy
02/06/09 @ 09:23
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It *is* quite impressive technology but it will take years to reach the levels we have seen in these demos and it will take some VERY creative thinking of devs before this all ends up in awesome games.

Still.. some of the small things (like automatically signing in the correct person in your household) will make the 360 a better experience for most of us. It is very ambitious but MS have all this tech lying around... so why not try to unify it and use it in a consumer device?
Mentalist(air)
02/06/09 @ 09:27
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Ellie must have been impressed (or very, very tired) since she was hardly sarcastic or flippant at all.

I wondered, when I watched the video for this, whether this was Dimitry - and Molyneux says it is. I'm surprised they haven't made much more of a big deal about that, since Dmitry was their top secret post Black & White revolutionary AI thing they went on about for ages.
ram
02/06/09 @ 09:28
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who hosted the interview? Beavis or Butthead?

nobs, bras, nubile gymnast uh huh huh huh huh
spazmo
02/06/09 @ 09:30
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rhubarbandcustard
02/06/09 @ 09:33
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Put this tech into Fable 3 or Elder Scrolls 5 and videogaming is going to be like an acid trip.
shotgun44
02/06/09 @ 09:35
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As impressive as the tech is, I don't really see the point in this. I'm more excited in seeing what people like Valve can do with their piles of money and experience with things like *fingers crossed* Half Life 3. To be fair I have my own friends and I'd rather see real games use this level of tech, not creepy virtual children. Did no one at the original meeting not point out that making it a kid called Milo (Milo? Really?) was a little strange!? I'm honestly more excited about the facebook features!
schnide
02/06/09 @ 09:38
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There's something I find very, very disturbing about all this. The Wii has a lot to answer for.
Mentalist(air)
02/06/09 @ 09:40
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I'm quite disappointed that so many people are jumping to the conclusion that anyone who wants to make friends with children is a paedophile. That's like asserting anyone who buys Nintendogs is into bestiality.

What is disturbing to me, though, is the echoes of so many science fiction short stories about artificial life. Especially the notion that you'll turn it off one day, and back on the next, or maybe even leave it a week, and something will have changed. With the likes of fable's money totting up over time, Lionhead have a history of doing things like that. I quite like the idea that there's a story to it, so there's actually something to play, though that might lead to an even greater headfuck.
designerheadache
02/06/09 @ 09:47
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As interesting from a technical standpoint as this is, i dont see how it translates in to fun games.

I remember Sony giving a demo of a very similar interface a few years ago using their Eye Toy Camera thing where a man was chatting to two female secret agents and they could tell when he was laughing etc, It wasnt quite as detailed as this but it was very similar.

It translated in to nothing substantial being released on the PS3 using the camera in that way and only served as a tech demo, so i am expecting this to go in a similar fashion.

Additionally the "hype" surrounding Natal feels very similar to when the Wii was announced, we all thought it would be incredible swinging swords, playing tennis, it captured our imaginations and we thought "yes" nintendo are really innovating....and all it amounted too was half assed controls, mostly crap games that give you cramp and a ton of shovelware.

For the sake of the industry i really hope the Microsoft effort doesn't go the same way, but currently i just don't see how history isn't going to repeat itself.
cragtek
02/06/09 @ 10:03
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Eurogamer: Can you draw a nob?

We were all thinking it, Eurogamer asked it. Good work!
Negotiator
02/06/09 @ 10:08
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I remember Sony giving a demo of a very similar interface a few years ago using their Eye Toy Camera thing where a man was chatting to two female secret agents and they could tell when he was laughing etc, It wasnt quite as detailed as this but it was very similar.

That was fully scripted, this is AI at work, they could tell when his mouth changed shape and a scripted reponse would follow. This is true AI it reacts to full face expression, voice and tone, certain words etc.. Pete has said himself its not perfect yet, but even at this stage it does more than anything else in the world.
Les
02/06/09 @ 10:11
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"Additionally the "hype" surrounding Natal feels very similar to when the Wii was announced, we all thought it would be incredible swinging swords, playing tennis, it captured our imaginations and we thought "yes" nintendo are really innovating....and all it amounted too was half assed controls, mostly crap games that give you cramp and a ton of shovelware."

Which led to Nintendo ruling this gen...

I'm pretty sure Natal will not have such an impact though. Because it is more encompassing than a Wii-mote it is also much more complex to integrate in 'regular' games. So it will probably result in the same mini game collections that we saw with EyeToy. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMHO.
Gaol
02/06/09 @ 10:12
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That guy shoulda been helped straight from the stage and into the Priory.

Total cobblers.
Negotiator
02/06/09 @ 10:13
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There's something I find very, very disturbing about all this. The Wii has a lot to answer for.

Schnide what the hell has the Wii got to do with this, the Wii is a point and click controller. This is full body motion control interacting with state of the art AI, before you go comparing stuff open your eyes and ears, muppet.
shotgun44
02/06/09 @ 10:15
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Why are people still saying this stuff is a long way off? Did we not see a working demo yesterday? I know nothing really from an industry standpoint but I assumed that the woman talking to Milo was actually using the software?
CapnCloudchaser
02/06/09 @ 10:16
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Surely dreams of virtual reality games has been heading in this direction? I can think of many different applications for technology like this, the most obvious being role play. As someone said above, think of how you could actually interact and talk with NPC's in a game like the Elder Scrolls. Virtual pet games will take on a whole new lease of life too.
Domovoi
02/06/09 @ 10:20
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I wish we could've had an actual in-depth interview rather than a couple of sex jokes. Still, the fact that he actually recognized a joke is pretty impressive.
Negotiator
02/06/09 @ 10:20
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I'm pretty sure Natal will not have such an impact though. Because it is more encompassing than a Wii-mote it is also much more complex to integrate in 'regular' games. So it will probably result in the same mini game collections that we saw with EyeToy. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMHO.

Les, this breaks down the barrier for non gamers, people can interact with a game in a complex way without holding a controller or device for the very first time. Everyone will want this, Wii is a gimmick, this is true innovation at work. When this comes out Microsoft will not only win the console war, it will own it.
Eraysor
02/06/09 @ 10:23
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"When you show it to people, especially non-gamers, it does promote this incredible emotional reaction."

They're going to have to do some serious work disguising all the gaming conventions of this, like the specific mode for him listening to you.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 02/06/09 @ 11:25
Azazel
02/06/09 @ 10:23
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Hmmm, my dog is called Milo.
Widge
02/06/09 @ 10:25
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Ah, Captain Smugface picture changed
Les
02/06/09 @ 10:26
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"Why are people still saying this stuff is a long way off? Did we not see a working demo yesterday?"

Because it was a demo in a controlled environment as others have already mentioned in other threads. That's a bit different from an actual implementation in a proper game. Getting this stuff to work properly in a game that people might actually be interested to buy is rather complex, as the relatively slow progression of Sony's EyeToy has shown before. How long ago was that pet game announced? The one where you drew stuff and it would appear in the game as a 3D object? Or that tank game?
Goffee
02/06/09 @ 10:27
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Can't believe all the negativity here. This is just the Pong of immersive gaming, give it 18 months to two years and "gymnast virgins with chainsaws" will be No.1
Mentalist(air)
02/06/09 @ 10:28
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Because it is more encompassing than a Wii-mote it is also much more complex to integrate in 'regular' games

According to this report:


http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,...


EA have hacked Natal wheel-free Mario Kart Wii style controls into Burnout (presumably paradise), and motion sensed foot control for pedals, too.

As I mentioned before, when the leaked reports of this were being discussed, if it can easily be used to add a bit of head tracking for changing view perspective on FPS, or even platform games, then this could change a lot of games in very interesting and subtle ways that could be difficult for the competition to replicate.
Edited 2 times, most recently on 02/06/09 @ 11:33
Widge
02/06/09 @ 10:29
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Oh and targeting non-gamers is positive now is it? I thought it was the all encompassing evil, consoles only for hardcore games with teh gameplayz.
Retroid [mod]
02/06/09 @ 10:31
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"Will not work as they are presenting it. This is the start of the Molyneux cycle"

He's openly stating that it employs tricks and only understands certain words, but will learn some over time. I wish people would give him a bloody chance instead of instantly "Mlolyneux".
Darren
02/06/09 @ 10:35
#46
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This piece of software sounds very intriguing from a technical point of view but it's still just an illusion albeit an incredibly elaborate one and I suspect that it is something that you'd get bored of once you realise its limitations. Anyone old enough to remember the innovative Little Computer People from Activision on the Commodore 64, which had you interacting (or, rather trying to interact) with a little person in a house can tell you that, although that "game" is obviously incredibly dated by today's standards but was state-of-the-art at the time.

If this software person can remember things and use them in later conversations then it could be very intriguing and give the best illusion of an artificial life yet. Whatever it looks interesting and at least it's trying to be something different, which is a rarity these days. It could be used as an educational tool for children for example, where they discuss and learn things they've been doing at school along with their Milo or Milly. I doubt anyone would object to that and kids would no doubt find it fun too.
XdarXideX
02/06/09 @ 10:40
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I still think he is a fraud and I'll believe this -amazing- game/tech demo when I get to "play" it.
Darren
02/06/09 @ 10:45
#48
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I hope the software isn't just restricted to choosing between a boy or girl. How about having your own English speaking alien for example, even designed by you, that you can interact with? Or even a talking animal of some kind (dog, cat, horse, lion, whatever) just for the sheer fun of it? Why just have a human being, the avatar itself doesn't have to be realistic, just the A.I. driving it.
Ryze
02/06/09 @ 10:46
#49
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Right! Break out the virtual Beyonce / Jolie / Tweedy simulators!
Xerx3s
02/06/09 @ 10:52
#50
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"He's openly stating that it employs tricks and only understands certain words, but will learn some over time. I wish people would give him a bloody chance instead of instantly "Mlolyneux"."

That plus Lionhead always have a couple of test projects cooking that are amazing but will then be cut up to be used in other games. It's usually more R&D than anything else.

They had The Room ages ago i.e. It was way ahead of it's time back then. It was never released but 2 generations later nearly every decent game uses a lot of the things that where then thought to be a load of bollocks.

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